Happy Monday to our favorite Sanderfans and Cosmere Chickens, and welcome to another Wind and Truth read-along discussion. Last week we covered Chapters 19 and 20, and if it hasn’t felt like a Sanderlanche to you so far, well—buckle up, baby! We’ve enjoyed seeing your discussion on those chapters—check out the social media section at the end of the article to see if we spotlighted one of your comments! This week, we tackle Chapters 21 and 22.
Note that this post will possibly contain full Cosmere spoilers, so beware if you aren’t caught up on all Cosmere content. And please remember, when posting or commenting about these preview chapters on social media, to follow your platform’s spoiler rules. Your comments here, however, don’t need to be spoiler tagged, so feel free to comment as you will down below!
Let’s get to it!
Paige’s Summary and Commentary
Chapter 21 is titled “Incomplete Truths” and the epigraph outlines the two lies Nohadon told to the travelers he had encountered.
Now we see Shallan and her plucky band of Lightweavers head to Narak to eavesdrop on the Ghostbloods, I guess? They’re disguised, of course, first as soldiers and then as crem scrapers as they set themselves up to watch the building where the Ghostbloods are supposed to be having their meeting.
One of the masked Ghostbloods, either Iyatil or the other woman from Scadrial, checks all of the newcomers before allowing them to enter the building. She feels their faces to check for Lightweavings and holds a jar of black sand up to each person, to check, I’m assuming, for investiture. (Drew has more to say about that below.)
After some hemming and hawing, Shallan and company decide to go through with their plan.
A plan which we will presumably see later, because the chapter moves back to Urithiru.
We catch up with Sigzil after the meeting at the top of the tower, feeling like a fraud and wresting with imposter syndrome to rival Navani’s. His spren calms him down when he worries that he isn’t like Kaladin, he doesn’t know how to lead. Vienta reminds him that he survived Bridge Four and that he’s now a leader, a hero.
“Live that truth.”
This scene got me right in the feels because I totally understand how Sig feels, constantly expecting that someone will figure out what a fraud you are. But we are more than we think we are, all of us. And so is Sigzil. ::grabs a tissue::
Sigzil strategizes with Kmakl and they decide to keep the Windrunners slated to go to Thaylen City at Narak until they’re needed for air support, then to send them to Thaylen City via Oathgate. Sig then tells Ka, another Windrunner, that he has a strange idea about how to defend Narak. Ka suggests running it past the Mink who, unsurprisingly, has disappeared again.
Meanwhile, Jasnah joins Dalinar, Navani, and Fen in what I’m presuming is the garden room, to further discuss matters. The room is overgrown with vines and grass and rockbuds. It’s not much to Dalinar’s liking but the Sibling says that they made it for their sister, the Nightwatcher, in case she were to visit.
The Sibling talks with them of when they were formed from the Stone six thousand years before. They mention that the Stone was the sibling of Wind (from which the Stormfather was formed?) and Night (from which the Nightwatcher was formed?) The Sibling mentions how confusing it is to learn of all that’s happened while they’ve slept.
Jasnah has questions, but it’s clear that Dalinar has something that he apparently wanted to tell them all privately, and that message of such import is that… he’s not ready to fight Odium. No… really? He mentions his mistake in overlooking the possibility of assault from the singers and worries that he’s overlooked something else.
Wit enters—he brings fruit for Jasnah… aww—and tells Dalinar that he’s wise to be worried. He mentions how the power of Odium would remember him (Wit) and hate him, but that he’s troubled by the situation with the new Vessel, who stole his memories and let Wit think he’d bested a god.
Then Dalinar tells them that he encountered Cultivation, and that she’d encouraged him to seek the Spiritual Realm in order to expand his knowledge of the past. He says that Cultivation told him he’s been on this path for years and could learn how to defeat Odium.
He asks Wit what really happened when Honor died and Wit admits that he doesn’t know.
“I was off-planet for the event, to my eternal shame. Other matters drew my attention, and I let the centuries slip away from me. He was erratic when I left. When I returned…” He shrugged. “Gone. The Radiants broken. The world in turmoil following the Recreance. I’ve been trying to catch up ever since.”
Dalinar asks him what happened to Honor’s power and Wit realizes that Cultivation has put an idea in Dalinar’s head. He advises him that anyone who takes up a shard ends up regretting it.
Jasnah proposes trying to renegotiate the contract, since Odium has a new Vessel. She suggests letting him leave Roshar and Wit says they can’t unleash him upon the Cosmere. But then Dalinar says that he thinks the best option is to pursue the avenue that will lead to Honor’s power. Wit, amazingly, agrees. If that doesn’t scare you… Wit agreeing that Dalinar should pursue the shard of Honor? Scares me.
As the discussion continues, Wit suddenly throws a bowl at a stack of tables, which smacks into Lift, hiding under a tablecloth. Jasnah had known she was there but Dalinar is caught completely off guard. And who should be with her but the Mink? Dalinar asks why he didn’t just ask to join them and Mink replies that asking just gives people the opportunity to say no.
He’d thought they were going into the private meeting to talk about retaking Alethkar. And then Herdaz. When Jasnah looks at Dalinar, she knows that taking Alethkar would be impossible. But the Mink, Dieno, is calling in his favor with Dalinar: He wants fifty Windrunners to transport a couple of hundred of his troops to Herdaz. Jasnah argues against it even as she knows that Dalinar will agree to it.
Then Ivory tells Jasnah that the Stormfather is near and Dalinar confirms it, saying that he’s overheard their conversation and isn’t happy about it. Dun-dun-dunn…
Chapter 22 is titled “Looking for a Third Option” and the epigraph mentions Nohadon parting with the family he had encountered.
Kaladin is amazed at the forested slope below the pass where they’d entered Shinovar. From stepping on vines to tapping leaves that don’t hide, he feels like the forest is frozen in time. Syl’s having a blast, flitting about, laughing. And then, finally, Kaladin attempts to break the ice with Szeth and get this therapy session started, already.
“Dalinar says that things you’ve done have left you scarred. Not only physically, but mentally.”
“Scars exist,” Szeth said. “They are permanent once you bear them. So you endure. Not only physically, but mentally.”
“What if they aren’t permanent?” Kaladin said. “Stormlight can heal physical scars. What if mental scars can heal too? If not remove them, then make them more limber, easier to bear—”
Szeth cuts him off—unsurprisingly, he seems less than open about his scars, or about anything else. He flat tells Kaladin that he’s not interested in why Dalinar sent Kaladin along.
“I trust Dalinar because I must,” Szeth continued. “So I am not allowed to resent you. Nevertheless, do not assume I will endure you trying to ‘save’ me, Kaladin Stormblessed. Not all beneath your judging gaze are in need of your protection. Keep your attention on finding the Herald.”
Well then, excuuuse me for trying to help! Not really—Kaladin wouldn’t say that. Probably. Instead, he begins asking questions about Ishar. Again, Szeth isn’t interested in a discussion. He says he’s just there to cleanse his homeland. He announces that there’s an Unmade in Shinovar. Kaladin asks how he knows it’s an Unmade and Szeth says that he met it.
Then he proceeds to start telling a story, which we will have to wait for, unfortunately. But it looks like we’re in for a flashback chapter soon!
For now, we go back to Dalinar, and what we expect to be a major spat with the Stormfather, who is quite angry. He takes Dalinar into a vision where they shout at each other for a while and Dalinar essentially tells the Stormfather to either help him or get out of his way. Well, you all read it, right? I can’t think of much to add to that very interesting conversation.
When Dalinar comes out of the vision, Wit is there, having heard everything. He instructs Dalinar to use Stormlight to connect to his “clock” so that he’ll know how much time is passing in the Physical Realm while he’s in the Spiritual Realm. They decide to experiment and go to fetch Navani and Jasnah.
So… Shallan is about to crash a Ghostblood party, we’re (hopefully) about to get a Szeth flashback, and Dalinar is going to experiment with the Spiritual Realm. Looks like we have a lot to look forward to next week!
Lyndsey’s Commentary
First, I dared not tell them this dusty traveler with whom they shared a meal was in fact that very king they had heard of. The second was that I did not explain that very king had abdicated his throne and walked away from his kingdom.
After we parted with affection the next day, I watched their cart roll into the distance, pulled by the father with two children riding in the rear, the mother striding with a pack on her back. Dust blew with them, for dust goes where it wishes, ignoring all borders.
—From The Way of Kings, fourth parable
Once again, we’ve got some interesting stuff here that doesn’t seem to tie in directly with the chapters that follow them. I suspect that once we get to the end of this part, the reason for these quotes will become clear, but for now… They’re still a bit of a mystery.
Chapter 21’s arch Heralds are Palah (Paliah), the patron of the Truthwatchers and Talenelat (Talenel, Taln), Herald of War, the patron of the Stonewards. Their attributes and roles are, respectively, Learned/Giving & Scholar and Dependable / Resourceful & Soldier. For a chapter with a pretty wide range of POVs represented, this pairing really seems to be most closely tied to the continuation of the strategy meeting. There’s a lot of thinking and planning in here, and in this author’s opinion, the Heralds portrayed are here because of that.
Meanwhile, Chapter 22’s arch Herald is solely Nalan (Nale), Herald of Justice, patron of Skybreakers. His attributes are Just/Confident, and his role is Judge. This one is a tough one. While we do have a Kaladin/Szeth POV, Nale doesn’t actually show up, and the entire conversation between Dalinar/the Stormfather/Wit doesn’t strike me as particularly just or confident. I suppose Nale might just be here for Szeth as a Skybreaker, but that seems awfully… plain.
I’ll be honest, I wasn’t seeing a ton of new information or developments to analyze in either of these chapters in regards to character arcs and relationships. But I’m certain that Drew is going to have a field day below with all this Cosmere connectivity, so let’s go over the things I did notice so you can all dig into all that juicy Cosmere stuff!
Sigzil
Sigzil did his best to pretend he was Kaladin.
Oh, Sig. While it’s sweet that he looks up to Kal so much, Kaladin chose him specifically because he thought Sigzil would do a good job on his own merits.
Kaladin was always so sure of himself. He always knew the next step to take.
Excuse me while I go laugh myself silly in a corner. Poor Sig doesn’t know Kal nearly as well as he thinks he does. Nor do I think he would believe Kaladin, should Kal ever tell him just how often he second-guesses himself.
Bridge Four was the only place I ever felt like a person rather than an accident
Not a surprise to see this sentiment, as it’s shared almost universally amongst all the members of Bridge Four, but still heartwarming to see.
Dalinar
Now, for the first time she could remember, [Dalinar] asked if she wanted his help.
Interesting. What exactly precipitated this change? Part of me wonders if the issues Dalinar’s having with Adolin might have opened his eyes to the ways his actions have affected others. Or maybe it’s his ability to remember what happened with his wife.
I do also want to briefly touch on Dalinar’s decision to attempt to take on the Shard of Honor. It’s a noble goal, made all the more so because he doesn’t want it. I believe it was Plato who wrote that only those who do not seek power are qualified to hold it. Will Dalinar wind up traveling this route? I suppose we’ll have to RAFO, won’t we?
Kaladin/Szeth
The relationship that’s unfolding between these two is quite charming, in my humble opinion. Kaladin trying to gently pry Szeth out of his hiding hole while Szeth doesn’t think he’s hiding at all… It’s sweet, in a way.
I have killed, and I bear the weight of those killings. To wish otherwise would be to minimize the damage I have done.
There’s atonement for legitimate transgressions, and then there’s self-flagellation.
Drew’s Commentary: Invested Arts & Theories
After a fairly light set of chapters last week—at least in terms of magic on the page and theory territory—we hit the ground running with Chapter 21. At this point, we should probably expect that to be the case with Shallan POVs…
Her Unseen Court is preparing to infiltrate a Ghostblood hideout, but they’re running into a big problem: White Sand. Well, black sand, but it’ll turn white in the presence of kinetic Investiture. That means no Lightweaving and that means no Radiant spren. This isn’t a new phenomenon in The Stormlight Archive, of course; we’ve seen white sand used as far back as Oathbringer. But what’s notable is how widespread its use is becoming.
Where it was once a tool used by Hoid, it’s becoming relatively common knowledge. The Fused used it in Urithiru and now the Ghostbloods are utilizing it to heighten security. This is all another indicator of what Sanderson talked about with the release of The Lost Metal (and why we’re going full Cosmere spoilers for this read-along column). The gloves are off when it comes to crossovers, and cross-Cosmere elements are playing more of a direct role in the narrative, now, rather than being simply Easter eggs.
That’s not to say that there aren’t Easter eggs anymore, of course.
“Ask your spren what happens if fragments of a god are left to their own devices for too long. They stand up, start walking about, and start riding around in people’s earrings.”
This should be immediately notable to anyone who’s read Mistborn, but I wonder if Brandon might be playing a deeper game with this particular reference. Obviously earrings play a big role in the Metallic Arts, having utility across all three disciplines of Allomancy, Feruchemy, and Hemalurgy, but in the context of spren and Investiture gaining intelligence, it stands out even more. I feel like there’s a hint here.
There’s a more direct reference to Mistborn (and Elantris) a bit later, and this is directly relevant to Dalinar’s current conundrum:
“On one [the power of a god] was all around, and we didn’t realize it. In another, the god’s power was stuffed in a metaphorical closet—packed into Shadesmar, left to rot.”
This is of course referring to Preservation in the mists and the Dor in Sel’s Cognitive Realm. But there’s a huge question lingering about Honor. For the longest time, the assumption was that Honor’s splintering found an outlet via the spren on Roshar, and it was simply fragmented and spread widely across the world and in Shadesmar. But this conversation implies that the spren really couldn’t be much of an outlet, and Honor’s power must be hanging around somewhere, more coherent than anyone realized.
It would be thematically appropriate to have it actually be in the Spiritual Realm. That would complete the trifecta, with three worlds each dealing with the power of a fallen Shard in one of the three Realms. Dalinar certainly seems to think Cultivation is leading him in the right direction.
And speaking of Rosharan history and the forces of Investiture that inhabit it:
“The Nightwatcher came from the Night, as the Stormfather came from the Wind.”
and
“I, formed from the Stone, which was the sibling of the Wind and Night.”
These primal (or perhaps primordial) forces, given shape by Cultivation and Honor, are taking more and more of a prominent spot. The arrival of the Wind as an entity is one thing, and fits well with Kaladin’s arc, but now we have Stone and Night as well. On top of that, the Sibling’s apparently confused recollections are throwing a real wrench in things.
Well, maybe.
Jasnah notes that the Sibling’s account of the timeline conflicts with the Stormfather’s, and the Sibling admits they are confused. But these chapters outright confirm that the Stormfather has lied to Dalinar!
Does that surprise you? Anger you?
It’ll probably anger a lot of the fans of the Stormfaker theory, at least. The Stormfather pretty openly talks about how he did in fact try to work with Galivar, and that his word cannot be taken at face value.
Maybe the Sibling is right about the timeline, and the Stormfather lied about this as well? One way or another, the history of Roshar needs to come to light sooner rather than later…and things are lining up fast for a side trip into the Spiritual Realm!
Fan Theories
Karen T on Reactor has some thoughts about Szeth and, oh boy, do we feel this:
I have a feeling I’m going to be spending half the time wanting to give Szeth a big hug due to all his trauma, and the other half wanting to slap him upside the head due to his being insensitive to Kaladin. Thankfully Nightblood will help defuse the tension with his comments.
Also regarding Szeth, or his spren, rather, JPGU says:
I have a Theory about Szeth’s Highspren, the fact that we don’t know his name makes me think that he is Auxiliary
And Isilel feels that Urithiru is in danger:
So, Skybreakers are totally waltzing into Urithiru after it gets emptied of troops, aren’t they? The omission in Sibling’s assurances was very blatant.
I don’t understand why they don’t consider dismantling the physical structure of the Oathgate, like the Fused intended to do at Thaylenah in OB once they started losing. Maybe this is something that will finally occur to the Sibling/Navani at a dramatically appropriate time?
1234 also thinks that Urithiru is in danger, but from a different quarter:
Nobody mentioned Ishar in ch 2? Our boys might never meet him because he will make a strike on unprotected Urithiru, what if he can somehow see what Dalinar sees due to their meeting and stealing a part of Dalinar bond or something? It would be cool to see Navani confronting him and we see what Sibiling is capable in battle vs Bondsmith Unchained… he created Oathpact he might be able to enter Urithiru on his own. Kal and Szeth will not find him but battle the Unmade and then Szeth swears his 4th ideal and go majin Vegeta on Kaladin due to Unmade tricks and we finally see what Division does.
Meanwhile, jer is concerned for Adolin and/or Dalinar:
I have been converted: Adolin is so dead. Either that or Dalinar is. Without reconciliation, one of them is deader than a doornail, and the survivor will live with the guilt…
What do you think? We’ll be keeping an eye on the comment sections of posts about this article on various social media platforms and may include some of your comments/speculation (with attribution) on future weeks’ articles! Keep the conversation going, and PLEASE remember to spoiler-tag your comments on social media to help preserve the surprise for those who choose to wait for the full release. See you next Monday with chapters 23 and 24!
The new chapters haven’t been posted
Yeah 2-3 times in a row
I do think they’re posted on the same day, but may be harder to find one or the other on the website (I’ve always been able to find both by 9:30 PM PST on Mondays)
This is nasty guys ive been seeing you posting read along discussion before chapters
Earlier in the chapter, Ivory was riding around in Jasnah’s earring. While “there’s always another secret,” this may just be a reference to that.
Yeah, I also didn’t connect to Mistborn until called out here. Vin’s earing is a stretch. Definitely felt like Hoid tweaking Ivory’s nose saying ‘I see you, not as well hidden as you think you are’
Especially when directed to Jasnah
I agree. Everything Wit references here applies to Ivory. I don’t see the connection to Mistborn.
Vin/Ruin & her Hermalurgic spike/earring
I guess what I mean is hemalurgic spikes haven’t evolved or become intelligent like the spren have.
I feel like Dalinar is missing a massive loophole in the terms of the contract if (when) Todium wins. “I will have your soul. To serve me, immortal.”
Taking up the Shard of Honor is the absolute worst thing Dalinar could possibly do leading up to the contest. If Dalinar’s champion loses, Todium will still be bound to the Rosharian system, but Dalinar – ascended as Honor and eternally Todium’s slave – won’t be, and could be forced to act as Todium’s Shardic weapon across the Cosmere. Literally worst case scenario.
HELL. I had not thought of that…. This is now the dramatic finale that I crave.
If Ascending is the only way for Dalinar to win and Dalinar does win, then he will not have to act as Todium’s Shardic weapon across the Cosmere. Worth the risk in my opinion.
Hadn’t thought of that. Good point. And very worrisome.
“I have yet to know a person who took up one of those Shards and didn’t regret it, my friend.” Big foreshadowing from Hoid that Ascending to the Shard of Honor won’t end as Dalinar hopes it will. Very worrisome indeed…
Cultivation tricked everyone again
Looking through the Death Rattles again, I’ve got an awful feeling that you’re right, and that Cultivation has been playing us all along. We’ve just been told in these chapters that the Nightwatcher came from the Night; and if we know that the Nightwatcher is a Splinter of Cultivation, does this mean Cultivation is the Night?
“So the night will reign, for the choice of honor is life…”
I always thought that “the night” referred to (T)odium, but I’m starting to think it was Cultivation we should have been watching all along.
We actually got some very interesting bits from the Sibling, in that the Nightwatcher is (apparently) not actually based on the primordial Night in the way that SF is based on the Wind — apparently the Night just “left” (we are to infer) because “few loved her, or even spoke of her”, so Cultivation replaced her with a being of some of the same essence.
This makes me wonder if the Night left wholly voluntarily, or was perhaps “enlightened” or Unmade and that is the real reason for her disappearance. Perhaps she became Re-Shephir (KOOZ seems to have similar thoughts)?
I think Wind, Night and Stone existed on Roshar before the shattering of Adonalsium. Maybe they are the original splinters?
Oh you’re right, I completely missed that! There’s not too many entities we know of pre-dating Adonalsium, so perhaps this fits with a theory I saw someone on Reddit mention, claiming the Wind, Stone and Night could be aethers? We know that the primal aethers pre-date the Shattering, and although we don’t know exactly what all 12 primal aethers are, I wonder if they correspond with the aether spores on Lumar? We know of Midnight spores (the Night?), and Zephyr spores (the Wind?), so if the Lumaran spores are in any way modelled after the primal aethers, then that theory could have some merit. Going full tinfoil-hat mode today haha XD
Ha! Cool theory.
I always wondered what or who the unmade were before they were unmade. I was extremely surprised to see Midnight Essence in Tress and find out that that’s an aether! Hence, is/was Re-Shepir a midnight aether linked to primary(?) ones or rogue or some such? Unlikely that she would be the Night,but if it’s related, that would be interesting!
Another day another chance for Cultivation to change Roshar fate just like that…she planned everything from Taravangian gift to Diagram to Nightblood to him becoming a new vessel and now she sent Dalinar there to be a Honor, wonder for what reason and how she benefits from that and if he succed will Herolds regain their sanity back? It would be cool to see Skybreakers taking Radiant side in the middle of Thaylenah/Plains battle just because Nale said that and they can no longer hold back to using Division
Whoa! So it seems like what the stormfaker theories were onto is that the Stormfather is more Tanavast than he has let on. And with Wit saying Tanavast was “unstable” when last he’d seen him…. Maybe the part of Tanavast that bound to the stormfather is broken-willed, and pretending that he can’t get involved anymore, repressing his failures?
Wait… Regarding Nohadon’s words in the epigraphs: he says “dust goes where it wishes, ignoring all borders.” and doesn’t Zahel/Vasher say that he knew Hoid by the name Dust in his youth? Nohadon’s description of dust here certainly sounds like him. Not sure what to make of the connection, but just a thought!
That’s what I thought!
Hoid does admit that he knew Nohadon, doesn’t he? Or am I thinking of the Stormfather? Some immortal entity who spoke with Dalinar admitted that he knew and interacted with Nohadon.
It was the Stormfather who knew Nohadon
My thoughts and comments on Chapter 21
· In WaT, Shallan has been willing to admit the truth to herself more than she has in the past. In the past, I do not think Shallan would ever admit to herself that she was scared. At least since OB and RoW, Shallan was lying to herself just as much as she lied to others. I see this as part of her inner growth and acceptance of who she is as a person; flaws and all.
· I have no doubt this meeting is a trap that Mraize set for Shallan
· Not sure if we ever had acknowledgement that the weather patterns (not just the timing of Highstorms) had changed as a result of the Everstorm. Roshar was getting more mist now. I wonder what long term effects that will have on the fauna and flora on Roshar.
· A Shardpen. Not as good as a Shardfork, but still, I like it. The second distinct Roshar pen we have seen (the other being part of a Sleeper in RoW).
· Interesting. The Stormfather came from the Wind. That will definitely be relevant later in this book. There is no way that is a throwaway line.
My thoughts and comments on Chapter 22
· I respect that Kaladin is trying to get Szeth to talk in an effort to help Szeth accept his past and/or more easily live with his burdens. But Szeth is correct in his assessment of Kaladin. Kaladin’s default is to protect those who come under his purview – whether that is friends, family or companions (like how he assumed protection of Bridge 4 before they wanted his protection, the Singers he traveled with in Alethkar and the Wall Guard). However, Kaladin will assume they need his protection even if they do not want Kaladin’s protection or ask for it. This is a characteristic of Kaladin that would annoy me if I was a friend or acquaintance of Kaladin. Kaladin has yet to learn that not everyone whom he could protect or help wants his protection or help. Hopefully (if he lives ling enough), Kaladin will learn this lesson.
· Maybe Chapter 23 will finally be a Szeth flashback and we can see the scene Szeth was about to describe to Kaladin.
· Stormfather is mistaken about Gavilar. He did want a type of Godhood. Gavilar thought that taking the place of one of the Heralds would provide him with such godlike. He may not have realized the existence of the Shards. If he had, I am sure Gavilar would have wanted to possess one.
· Love the breaking of the 4th wall that Brandon has Wit (some other worlds have political fundraisers). Too bad Wit did not say political commercials. Political commercials would have been more accurate.
· Chapter 22 puts a big dent into the Fake Stormfather theories that developed due to WaT’s prologue. However, it does not completely destroy that theory. First, in Chapter 22 he said he watched Gavilar. He never said he talked to Gavilar. And I do not think the Stormfather talked to Dalinar until Dalinar bonded the Stormfather. Second, the Stornfather in this prologue does seem different (at least to me) than the Stormfather we have seen so far and through Chapter 22.
I think he was talking about scadrial when he said political fundraisers, what with their developing democracy
I don’t think Dalinar picks up the shard of Honor (didn’t Cultivation say it doesn’t HAVE to be him?) And I guess he won’t be on top of Urithiru with a book when facing TOduim’s champion if he holds the shard and has become Honor himself.
Here is my tinfoil hat theory: all the sapient spren and Wind, Night and Stone come together to remake Honor (may be Kaladin takes it up) and that is the reason the Wind is gone in the future and spren are less common. 😁
I have another tin foil hat theory!!! We know Honor is dead ( power is present somewhere in the spiritual realm per Cultivation). But is Tanavast dead? Maybe he found a way to divest himself of power because he regretted taking up the shard ( Wit does say that everyone regrets taking up a shard). Maybe this is the shame the Stormfather is afraid of Dalinar knowing.
I like this theory. Dalinar discovers Tanavast and how Tanavast has given up on everyone, thus his honor is dead.
I also wonder if the bit about Honor’s power being in the spiritual realm is also a bit of a misdirection, thinking back to both “Honor is dead” and “Honor is not dead so long as he lives in the hearts of men”. Perhaps the power is distributed among the souls of Rosharans, which are themselves in the spiritual realm, but not in a single homogeneous blob. That would give a new interpretation to “Unite them!” which we still don’t fully understand.
On the other hand, if Dalinar was supposed to unite Wind/Stone/Night, I would expect that to end up more like Adonalsium than Honor.
Now, I worry the next attackers/ occupiers of the tower are already there. They are inside the building. They are the Ghostbloods! Dun Dun Dun!
You just breeze right past the most interesting part haha, the stormfather convo..
How did he break the heralds? What is his shame?
I absolutely was on board with stormfaker is Ishar for years since that prologue was released. It just didn’t add up.
Honestly there’s still a few discrepancies, how he could see indoors, how he sensed the death of a herald when Chana got killed by Shallan..
It does explain why he completely changed his bonding approach with Dalinar vs Gavilar.
Jasnah commenting on the timeline issue definitely implies something weird about SF, plus all of siblings comments about his personality being different, might just be honors death and Tanavasts CS but idk.
Really curious to learn more about the proto forces like wind stone and night.. definitely fits with the popular theory the unmade began as that form too, at least the sentient ones.
But yeah, Sigzil is supposed to leave pretty early on for the dawnshard stuff and be offworld, and somehow become a sky breaker? Not sure how that’ll fit in.
Cultivation not telling Dalinar about tOdium is definitely intentional, maybe so he feels more desperate to seek out honor..if he knew it was Taravangian it would be a lot less unknown and he’d have a better idea of how to approach things.
I definitely think the time dilation of the spiritual is a chekovs gun, someone is definitely going to be stuck there and return after the timeskip. It does mean for BAM it’s possible no time has barely passed at all.
I agree, there’s a lot of things with Stormfather here that don’t line up. Maybe the foreshadowing about time dilation in the spiritual realm is involved, too — if SF is tied up into something (maybe Tanavast’s CS, maybe something else) that’s holed up in the spiritual realm and is disrupting his time perception.
I changed my mind lol
Interesting that we’ve had a rock mysteriously appear in Kaladin’s pack in Chapter 8, and now Szeth revealing the odd happenings in Shinovar began with a rock- especially combined with the earlier epigraph identifying both as the Wind’s champions. Though Sibling indicating that Stone, Wind, and Night were/are separate entities throws a wrench into that line of speculation…..
I think Szeth-Kaladin conversation may give indication of what Windrunner fifth ideal could be. Another comment pointed out that Kaladin’s default reaction to someone is to protect them, without realizing that the person may not want that protection. Maybe the fifth ideal (customized to Kaladin, or in general) is realizing that Not everyone will want to be protected. It does rhyme quite well with other ideals.
First Common ideal: “Life before Death, Strength before Weakness, Journey before Destination”
Secong Ideal: “I will protect those who cannot protect themselves”
Third Ideal: “I will protect even those who I hate, as long as it is right”
See how second and third ideal has parity between them about Protecting others.
Fourth Ideal: “I accept that there will be those who I cannot protect”
If fifth idea is realizing that: “I accept that there will be those who will not want my protection.” It will have similar parity of learning to Not protect/being able to protect.
PS: Ideals from top of my head, not exact phrasing.
This is a cool theory. It kind of made me think the other direction though, that, all of Kaladin has been doing is trying to protect everyone. The idea that there will be others who will not want his protection, kind of falls into the Fourth Ideal, as people who he cannot protect.
So, I’m guessing the Fifth Ideal is more about accepting and loving himself. So my guess is, If I am to protect, I need to protect myself.
I’m pretty sure with chapter 21’s epigraph and 22’s Stormfather / Dalinar discussion that when Tanavast knew he was becoming to unstable, he did the honorable thing and gave up the shard of Honor. I think Tanavast is Meladon and wrote the Way of Kings as a guide book for his replacement.
Earlier epigraphs told us that the Wind is much different now than she was several years ago, this is also confirmed by the Sibling. Perhaps whatever happened to the Wind also changed the Stormfather? Given that SF came from the Wind, and given that the Sibling has said she misses how the SF used to be, I wouldn’t be surprised if there is a connection here
I am thinking one of the reasons people of Shinovar don’t walk on stone and consider it hallowed is because of “the Stone”, the sibling of Night and Wind!
Yeah, I’ve been rooting for this theory for so long I guess I’ve internally convinced myself that it’s obvious and doesn’t need saying :)
In the epigraph for Chapter 22, it mentions that “Dust” ignores borders. Nohadon might be referring to actual dust, but what if he’s thinking of Dust as a name? Isn’t “Dust” one of Hoid’s many aliases? What are the chances Nohadon had met Hoid? We know now that he was on Roshar during the period when Honor was being erratic and that Hoid left Roshar before the Splintering and Recreance happened and but we have no idea how long there was between Hoid leaving and Tanavast’s death. Seems entirely possible that he could have been on Roshar during Nohadon’s life and we all know Hoid always finds a way to interact with the important people, and Nohadon certainly qualified as important.
Also anyone have a guess of where Hoid was during the Splintering of Honor? Maybe Scadrial?
Interesting theory posited by the guys at Following Nohadon: A Stormlight Podcast: “Dust” is an ancient Spren of Adonalsium, like Wind, Night, and Stone. And what if this Spren was Unmade during the Desolations, becoming Chemoarish, the Dustmother?
What first came to my mind was his time he spent during “Yumi” or during “Tress”.
Is it possible for Syl to take a Honor’s Shard if she obtains the psychical body via Ishar experiments? I think it was mentioned for a reason that honorsprens can hold the longest while getting a real body of flesh
And now about how she’s getting used to a full-sized body. Even Szeth’s POV reinforcing that.
The reference of The Stone as an entity like Night and Wind makes me wonder if that’s the source of the Shin belief’s about walking on Stone
So, did Honor’s power become the High Storm? Just endlessly circling the planet and infusing magic into stuff as it goes? Is that too simple?
Also, the “riding in an earring” comment from Wit was a reference to Jasnah’s spren Ivory, who was literally rising her earring, rather than a reference to Mistborn I think. Because he was talking about fragments of a god, ie: spren, and how they get up and start walking around.
I think we’ve heard in one or two places in the previous books that what happens in the storm is a moment of Connection to the spiritual realm, and thus access to the investiture of Honor that is just floating around in the spiritual realm to recharge spheres or whatever. So I don’t think that the power is in the storm itself, per se.
(I do think Wit was talking about Ivory, though, as you say.)
“Kaladin was always so sure of himself. He always knew the next step to take.” – oh man, I’m getting some “Rand always knew how to talk to women!” vibes here. I guess now Sig is going to fill our quota of mopey chapters now that Kal is finding some healing. :)
Don’t the Ghostbloods have any allomancers? It seems like they should be able to sense if somebody is using Investiture (I don’t remember the metal off the top of my head, sorry – or maybe it only applies to allomancy?).
I know Kal is discovering therapy and all, but I can totally see why Szeth is resistant. And really, it shouldn’t be easy. If it was easy, therapy would work a lot more often than it does.
There’s a ton here regarding the timeline of Roshar and the nature of the Shards but I’m still just reading along/catching up. Enjoying all the theorycrafting though!
What would happen if nobody took up the shards? I know some are still intact, and some are dead/splintered, but I wonder if it’s required. I guess that’s the bigger question regarding the end game with Adonalsium and if it should be re-united or not.