Welcome back to the Words of Radiance Reread on Tor.com. Last week Alice began Book Two and Shallan tried to make herself comfortable in the company of slavers. This week we see Adolin in the dueling arena, and I’m forced to eat my words regarding his chosen life path. Everyone likes seeing me eat my words, right?
This reread will contain spoilers for The Way of Kings, Words of Radiance, and any other Cosmere book that becomes relevant to the discussion. The index for this reread can be found here, and more Stormlight Archive goodies are indexed here.
Click on through to join the discussion.
Chapter 14: Ironstance
Point of View: Adolin
Setting: The Shattered Plains, Dueling Arena
Symbology: Duelist, Kalak
IN WHICH Adolin discourses with his unnamed Shardblade about when he won it, and the battle ahead; the duel is prepared for, mentally and physically; Adolin joins his brother and aunt in the staging room; Renarin runs Adolin through his victory checklist, confirming that chicken was consumed, a chain was pocketed, and a sword was spoken to; Adolin remains stalwartly illiterate in the face of glyphs; no one worries overmuch about the delay of Jasnah’s boat, although Adolin is eager to meet his causal betrothed; Adolin bemoans the existence of guards, Kaladin in particular; Adolin enters the arena, which is full of onlookers but empty of Sadeas; his opponent, Salinor, prepares for a traditional and artistic duel; Adolin beats him senseless in a show of undignified brutality; despite the highjudge’s shock, no one can prove he broke any rules; Adolin ignores accusations of cheating and takes Salinor’s Shardblade; Adolin gives Renarin the Blade, although he doesn’t really seem to want or like it; Navani compliments Adolin’s strategy, and promises to find him more duels.
Quote of the Week:
“Victory?” Adolin guessed.
Navani lowered it, raising an eyebrow at him.
“What?” Adolin said as his armorers entered, carrying the pieces of his Shardplate.
“It says ‘safety and glory,’” Navani said. “It wouldn’t kill you to learn some glyphs, Adolin.”
He shrugged. “Never seemed that important.”
Oh Adolin, you big illiterate lug. You don’t even know enough to tell the difference between one word and two. How did this never seem important to you, like, at all? I just… I just don’t get the idea of an intentionally illiterate person. I just don’t get it.
Commentary: It’s time to D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-DUUUUUEL! No, I’m not sorry, you can’t make me be sorry. Adolin is finally back in his natural environment, and I have to admit that I’m impressed. Those of you who read through the Way of Kings reread might remember how deeply unenthused I was by Adolin’s Calling. I found the idea of a young man committing his course of personal growth to hitting other dudes with sticks and thereby proving he was the best stick-dude-hitter deeply childish. The Adolin we see here proves that his chosen profession is deeper than I was giving him credit for. Adolin the duelist is passionate, powerful, but most surprisingly of all, calculating and tactical. He knows that Salinor is no threat to him, and he knows that he isn’t dueling for himself, so he takes a path designed to make the biggest possible impact and further his father’s goals. Even though he actually embarrassed Salinor because he was full of rage, there was probably a part of him driving forward the scheme.
Adolin is a totally different person from me. As I intimated in the Quote of the Week, it’s hard for me to grok someone who has no interest whatsoever in reading-based knowledge, even in the cultural context where reading is a thing that Men Don’t Do. Dalinar reads glyphs, as does Kaladin, and they’re established as useful tactical tools. Adolin is, to put it plainly, a jock. But he’s a smart jock. He reads opponents and situations effortlessly. I’m impressed by how Sanderson made me reverse my position.
Even though I still find his pre-duel preparations deeply silly in the abstract, they manage to make a kind of sense. He’s gotta eat chicken, which, who eats chicken for breakfast? But a duelist needs protein, and Adolin makes sure to get it. He carries his mother’s chain, and while that has no obvious tactical advantage, no one could blame him for the sentiment. Except Navani, who sometimes goes beep boop at other people’s emotional displays. Most importantly, he talks to his sword, and while this is the strangest it’s also strangely appropriate. Adolin seems to have an ill-formed sense of the big secret about Shardblades. He never named his sword, because he feels like the Radiant who first owned it must have given it a more appropriate name. He treats it not like a possession, but a partner. It’s really sad, and kind of sick, and I have to wonder how he’ll relate to his sword in the third novel.
I’m into Renarin’s brotherly support. Adolin and Renarin care about each other so much, and they’re a wonderful team. Too bad Adolin is forcing painful Shardblades on his poor ickle Radiant brother.
It sucks seeing Navani being confident of her daughter’s return. I know dramatic irony happens to all of us, but it’s times like these that make me glad I’m not a character in a novel. Novelists are jerks. Straight up jerks.
Sprenspotting: After getting the Shards beaten out of him, Salinor is surrounded by fearspren. I don’t blame him for a second.
Ars Mechanica: While we don’t learn very much technically new in this chapter, we do get a solid regrounding in the mechanics of Plate and Blade. We also see how a Shardbearer can break the bond on a Shardblade, by touching the ruby on the hilt that binds them together.
Heraldic Symbolism: Almost every Adolin chapter in The Way of Kings was also a Dalinar chapter, but now that Adolin the Duelist is a fully-fledged and mostly-independent viewpoint character, he’s earned himself a chapter symbol of his very own. It’s a little strange that the duelist depicted in this symbol isn’t in Windstance, Adolin’s preferred form, but I imagine it would be harder to fit in the little circle.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe this is the first time we’ve seen Kalak in a chapter arch. He’s definitely not shown up in any other chapter of Words of Radiance. Kalak’s attributes are Resolute and Builder, which only kind of fit the mood of this chapter. But, then again, Kalak didn’t particularly embody those virtues when we saw him in the Prelude.
Shipping Wars:
“Adolin didn’t press the issue. Navani knew Jasnah better than anyone else. But . . . he was certainly concerned for Jasnah, and felt a sudden worry that he might not get to meet the girl, Shallan, when expected. Of course, the causal betrothal wasn’t likely to work out—but a piece of him wished that it would. Letting someone else choose for him had a strange appeal, considering how loudly Danlan had cursed at him when he’d broken off that particular relationship.”
Cuuuuuuuuuute. Adolin has just about given up on the idea of finding a girl for himself, and is nervously hoping that Shallan will be a good match, even though he has no reason to suspect that. At this point, we don’t have any real reason to anticipate that they’ll mesh well, either. Shallan the bookworm seems an odd fit for Adolin the proud glyph-ignorer. BUT THEY ARE GOOD TOGETHER AND NO ONE CAN TELL ME OTHERWISE.
I will go down with this ship, I swear to the Almighty.
That’s it for this week, stormfolks! It’s a real pleasure to get back into the main section of the book. Join us next week, as Alice follows Shallan on her long journey towards her foreverboy the Shattered Plains. Also, to apologize for the chapter arch being late, here’s the illustration of the duelist stances!
Carl Engle-Laird is an editorial assistant at Tor.com, where he acquires and edits original fiction. You can follow him on Twitter here.
Shalladolin FTW!!!! (Adollan??)
Adolin IS a jock, there’s no doubt about it. Alethkar is a jock society, Dalinar is a reformed jock, Gavilar was a jock, Elhokar is a jock, even Kaladin is like a scholar-athlete… But I still like Adolin, despite my lack of sport prowess (I wasn’t bad at ultimate frisbee in college, though…
As far as Heraldic symbolism goes, it’s possible that Adolin will be in the 8th Radiant order, associated with Kalak. Or I’ve seen it speculated that his use of Ironstance is the reason (tbe 8th essence is Foil, aka metal). Idk, not really my area of expertise, I’ll leave it to others to figure it out.
I’m pretty sure that we have WOB somewhere that the “dead” spren can be revived if they bond with someone else. I’m also pretty sure this is our leading candidate. I REALLY want to see the spren dealing with Adolin having already been PERSONALLY betrayed and abandoned.
ShaKalodin all the way! Why ship two when you can ship three?
The sword talking is particularly interesting given what the sword actually is. Maybe the old spren can come back?
Absolutely love this chapter! This was the beginning of Adolin surging to the upper echelon of my favourite characters (Shallan being No. 1). As somewhat of an athlete myself, I can totally appreciate Adolin’s pre match ritual. I don’t consider myself superstitious at all, but I always go through the same routine before I play a hockey game. For instance, I always put on the left skate before the right. If not, something just feels a bit off, even if it seems like a small thing. Bottom line being; there’s a huge mental aspect to physical competition and you do what you do to get in the proper mindset.
I have two theories that have burning in me since I read this chapter again yesterday!
1. What if we can tell what type of spren the dead shardblades were based on their design? I know they are all supposed to be unique but some of them are described as having flames along the back, or waves, and Adolin’s is described as having “ridges at the back like growing crystals.” Could his blade have been a spren likeWyndle or like the one that was with Ym?
2. Could the 10 stances be related to the 10 orders of KR? Is wind stance the fighting style that would work best for a person squired to a windrunner and etc.?
And just a note, it’s easy for us to forget but Adolin having chicken for breakfast is not just having dinner for breakfast but having a foreign delicacy as well.
Another thing to consider is that chicken is a bit of an exotic dish in Alethkar–chickens are from Shin and not native to the storm-swept lands. Not to say they can’t be raised in carefully sheltered areas outside of Shin, but it’s definitely nowhere near as ubiquitous as we’re used to.
Like you said earlier in the paragraph, Adolin seems to be on to something about the true nature of the Shardblades. I don’t find his behavior sad or sick, but appropriately reverent toward a tool that was once a living being.
The idea of a weapon having a spirit (not quite the same as being one) isn’t totally alien in the history of our world, either. I can even understand it being strange that Adolin is the only one to feel this way, given the respect shown to other objects from antiquity in the Vorin world.
Adolin truly sees himself as the successor to a long line of men who wielded this blade down through the ages. He takes being a warrior and a duelist seriously, in a way that a lot of Alethi, who simply see fighting and war as a game, do not. To me, it’s a fitting demonstration of the depth of a character who has seemed shallow in the past.
@5+6 Don’t forget also that chicken is their word for bird. Later on at the menagerie kaladin/Shallan sees a parrot (or similar mimicking bird) and calls it a chicken. It is therefore quite possible that he’s eating anything from a blue tit to a roc to a tasty tasty dodo. I’ll admit that a standard chicken is much more likely though.
@@.-@ – exactly. There’s a reason that athletes (including professionals) often have “superstitions” about having to eat a certain food or wear a specific article of clothing, or some other ritual that has to be followed. It’s not because they’re truly superstitious (although some certainly are), it’s about establishing the right state of mind. I had a special tshirt I’d wear under my pads for football games, and my pregame meal was always the same. Adolin’s ritual makes sense.
I agree Adolin becomes more interessting with the insight we get here and I truly hope this will hold for Renarin as well. “Watching” Renarin here I have trouble seeing him as some sort of autistic, his relationship with his brother doesn’t seem to indicate it. Opposed to that the hint about Renarin’s trouble with Shardblades was subtly placed. His reluctance and grimace really could have been due to shame, because he isn’t a fighter.
There were so many awesome things about this chapter.
Even on first reading, I loved the respect Adolin showed for his weapon, and it’s even more powerful now that we know what Shardblades actually are. Although WoB is that it’s extremely difficult, I count myself among those hoping that he is able to revive the Blade. I also like that he gets his very own chapter icon here.
And another thing that comes out more on subsequent readings – Renarin’s grimace here is a strong indicator that he’s already started bonding Glys, and therefore hearing screams whenever he holds a Shardblade. Just makes it more impressive that he goes through the entire rest of the book without complaining about it.
Bellaberry @@@@@ 5 – I love your theory #1! Seems very realistic and reasonable to me. We’ll have to see more live Blades associated to different KR orders to know for sure, of course.
Agree: Who eats chicken for breakfast? But we have already seen that Rohar has many different dishes than us. We should be thankful that when Sanderson talks about food, it seems to mostly be grain or earth animal based.
Could you imagine a GRRM list of a feast with all these shelled creates around? I’m guessing the Cajun and lobster lovers among the re-readers could have fun. But somehow I would be worried about learning that axhound is on the menu. Okay, stopping that line of thought right now.
I can’t make fun of him for his ritual. Know too many sports fans and athletes that have their own rituals, including talking to their equipment.
I was expecting Adolin’s shift from Wind into Iron stance to be the
Quote of the Week.
That was a moment of extreme importance to me. It was a moment of importance to Adolin’s growth as a character too. It went from a game, to really being part of Dalinar’s war plan. I think I caught my breath upon first reading those lines.
And yes, Adolin’s pleasure in his ignorance does cause me to role my eyes. Yet I see him changing his mind before the end of the books.
@5: Not a bad theory. I think it’s been in the back of my head too. And probably discussed on the 17th Shard. But I’m not on there much.
It would be logical, more than there a Ten Stances, just because there are 10 Heralds. And the design matching the spren type is logical as well.
Have we gotten a full description of Syl or Pattern in blade form?
Re: Kalak – Of course, I had to go back and look. (Fortunately, I have this handy-dandy spreadsheet I made once…) Kalak shows up on eight chapter arches in TWoK. Eight. Out of seventy-five chapters, or a possible 150 appearances. Wow. Underutilized, much? Interestingly, perhaps, his first appearance was on the Nan Balat Interlude. Now I’ll have to go back and look at all eight chapters to see how he was represented; I’m betting some of them might be the inverse of his “divine attributes.”
And of course I had to check WoR, too: nine chapters. Several of them are Shallan making the best of bad situations, so I’m thinking those are probably the “resolute” business, but we’ll figure that out when we get there. For what it’s worth, this and the Nan Balat interlude from TWoK are the only two chapters where Kalak holds all four spots.
Also, I adore Renarin & Adolin. I don’t remember quite what I thought of Adolin in the first book; IIRC, he was a nice-but-clueless sort of guy, maybe a bit shallow, and I didn’t think all that hard about him. (I’d have to go back and look at my comments on TWoK‘s reread, and even that might not tell me much.) WoR really moved him up the list of favorite characters; partly because we’re in his head more, partly because he does more cool stuff, and partly because he’s growing. One of the things I love about him, of course, is his love for his brother. Even though they’re very different, and most people don’t have much respect for Renarin, he’s Adolin’s best friend.
This chapter was totally stunning when I first read it. It seemed so out of character for Adolin to suddenly decide that it was time to introduce the concept of grim reality to the dueling arena, but now when I read it, it fits him perfectly. Which probably mostly proves that I dismissed him as two-dimensional too readily in the first book, and as I’ve watched him through the second book, I’m recognizing much more depth to a character that just wasn’t in the forefront much before. That’s also probably why…
If it goes down, I’ll be right there beside you, Carl. We’ll drown together.
And… I need to find out if someone has translated the glyphs on the sword forms illustration.
MDNY @1 – This chapter formed much of the basis for my theory that Adolin would be a Willshaper; it also seems like that might be a good Order for the first person to bring his dead-spren-Blade back to life. (In spite of what Brandon has indicated about the near-impossibility of this feat, I WANT Adolin to do it. Really, really want.) I have to admit, though, that there’s plenty of evidence that if he becomes a Radiant, he might just as easily be a Dustbringer. I still like the first theory best.
TBGH @2 – The dead spren are brought back to life “a little” when someone bonded to them (via the gemstone) summons them, but WoB is that it would be very, VERY difficult to really bring one back to life. I don’t have the exact quotation, but it diminished my expectation rather dramatically.
Bellaberry @5 – It hadn’t occurred to me before, but it makes a lot of sense – similarities in Blades might indicate similarities in spren. Now we’ll have to examine all the Blades with that in mind! About the stances… I assume they’re related to the Orders in some way, but haven’t really thought about how. Mostly because I don’t know enough about swordfighting, probably, but I just assumed that they were developed based on Vorin ideals or something.
travyl @10 – I assume Renarin is on the autism spectrum somewhere toward the Asperger’s end. Autism takes a lot of different aspects, and many of them aren’t all that visible unless you really know what you’re looking for. We have friends who have three autistic kids; the oldest and youngest, you almost can’t tell except for a hint here and there, while the middle just seems to have a major lack of social filters. He talks too loud at the wrong time, says things that aren’t appropriate, stuff like that. His sister strikes me as much more like Renarin in terms of outward behavior – she considers what she wants to say before she says it, to make sure it comes out right, and she often doesn’t tell anyone that something is wrong because she assumes it’s “just her.”
Jeremy @11 – I agree; I think Renarin was already beginning to bond with Glys, and that’s what his grimace was about. When he talks about it later, it doesn’t sound like it started at some point in the process, but that it was part of his Blade from the first touch.
Also: I need to stop doing so much research before I post my first comment…
@10: I’ve not reread this chapter recently, and I can’t speak for all people on the spectrum, but as someone on the milder end, I don’t find it strange at all that he’s able to interact “normally” with his brother. I have a lot of difficulty with small talk and making new friends – but if you only ever saw me around my close friends and family, you might not notice anything amiss.
@14 A lot of interesting stuff there.
I think we have good reason to believe the stances postdate the Recreance. Maybe they’re evolutions of old KR fighting techniques, but thinking back to the Midnight Essence vision in WoK, Dalinar’s fighting techniques were unknown to the Knights who were fighting beside him. One of them even comments on it.
Count me in on the Adolin for Willshaper campaign as well. The idea of Adolin being the one to do the nearly impossible feat of bringing a dead spren back to life is very intriguing, particularly because Adolin doesn’t seem to have great people skills either. He seems much stronger at bonding with non-human intelligences like his Ryshadium and his blade. The Willshaper surges, Transporation and Cohesion, are focused on Shadesmar and objects, respectively, and they seem like a good match for someone like Adolin.
One of the potential downsides is it would put us with our initial 3 representatives of Shadesmar-accessing orders all in the same general place and faction, with two of them being Kholins.
Wetlandernw @14 travyl @10 – The thought just occured to me, but did Renarin’s bonding of Glys “heal” his minor autism as well? We saw this happen in Elantris. Will Renarin me more vocal going forward if/because some of his social inhibitions are no longer present?
asdobkin @17 – I’ve wondered about that, but it doesn’t seem probable for some reason. As of chapter 71, he was still fiddling with his little box, which WoB (or WoP) has told us is Renarin’s version of stimming. However… that seems to be the last mention of the little box, so I don’t know. Maybe.
Re: Chicken for breakfast.
Chicken and waffles is not an uncommon breakfast in the mid-atlantic states (and elsewhere, I suspect). Two versions exist: the traditional soul food with fried chicken and, on the other side of the plate, waffles topped with syrup or whatever, and then there’s the Pennsylvania Dutch version with shredded chicken topping the waffle–all covered with gravy. I’ve enjoyed the soul-food version (for breakfast) at a nifty diner in a multi-ethnic neighborhhod near LAX.
Re: The duelist illustration
Are those really stances? Shouldn’t there be more? IIRC, there are 10 stances, and, yes, I know this paper is a fragment of the whole. But…the bottom drawing looks more like a kill-shot to me than an actual stance. Finally, what is the circled symbol just above Nazh’s (presumably) annotation? It looks familiar, but I can’t match it up with anything.
Halien @7
Agreed. I don’t take it as sad or sick.
Don’t have time to thoroughly digest the comments right now, so apologies if I asked a question about the illustration that’s been answered.
@15: +1.
Re: Adolin Revives Blade. I hope that Brandon just wants us to not expect it, so that we can be “pleasently surprised” when it does happen. He did NOT say it was impossible. Kind of like the “no body = no death” thing.
I am not sure why, but I find it interesting that on the whole, Adolin is in lock step with Dalinar in how to deal with the other Highlords. In many ways, Sadeas’ betrayal in WoK affected Adolin more than Dalinar. I do not think it surprised Dalinar (when he had the time to think retrospectively). On the other hand, I beleive Adolin had a more honorable opinion of the nobility as a class. I think Sadeas’ actions completely changed Adolin’s viewpoint on this subject.
Thanks for reading my musings,
AndrewB
(aka the musespren)
The 17th shard was mentioned twice today in response to something I said so I thought maybe it was time to go sign up over there or something. I didn’t join yet but WHERE DID MY DAY GO? Lol, at least I alrrady had dinner in the crockpot.
Halien@16 good point about the KRs in the flashback not recognizing Dalinar’s stance.
Does anyone else who has done World of Warcraft raiding picture men with shardplate and blade as raid tanks in their head?
It’s a black hole. . .
This book made me love Adolin. I found him whiny and one dimensional in TWOK. He gets some real depth in this book. Sanderson does a masterful job showing his vulnerability, and that makes him so much more relatable. He isn’t just some dumb jock, he’s a dumb jock who doesn’t know how to talk to girls and just wants Shallan to like him. I get that.
And i totally ship Adolin and Shallan.
I Was so pleased when they included these images of Shardbearers. I know they show one on the cover of TWoK, but for most of the series I couldn’t stop picturing sword fighters wearing Halo Spartan armor. Especially with the talk of visors.
@16
adolin has mad people skillzzzz nits part of the reason that his betrothals don’t work out. The ladies love him. He’s the only person, besides Amaram, who seems to have friends outside of his own camp among the Alethi.
Doesnt preclude your your theory from being true.
Navani is right that Jasnah is not dead.
The first Adolin DUEL chapter. I was gonna say I like this chapter, but since this is one of my favorite books and I like almost every chapter, I’ll just say this is an exceptionally good chapter for me.
I like Adolin’s traditions/superstitions. If we’re going to consider him a “jock” (and I guess that is kind of what he comes across as), then his pre-event rituals parallel the actions of a lot of athletes. This continues to humanize Adolin, and definitely endeared him to me more. Sanderson creates (and then develops) so many good characters!
Having said that I find it difficult to reconcile the heir to the Kholinar princedom (not to mention, someone that is third in line to the throne of Alethkar) being functionally illiterate with glyphs. I find it hard to believe that learning glyphs isn’t part of a prince’s education, along with swordplay and tactics.
Heraldic Symbolism: I think the Kholins are demonstrating their resolve here and that could be why we see Kalak. Barring that, I don’t really have any other rationalization.
Shipping Wars: I’m with you Carl. Team Shadolin forever! They just… work; and complement each other quite well. Let’s leave Adolin and Shallan their happiness; no need for love triangles here!
This is a really good point, actually. The Kholinar family seems unusually lax in setting up the foundation of its dynasty and in making sure family members are fit to govern.
There seems to be no formal structure in place for providing the king with counselors. Dalinar acts as one in an unofficial role and both men have their scribes, but this leaves a lot of weak areas. We don’t really get to see much of Elhokar ruling or making policy. There seem to be no court sessions, aside from a few meetings with various highprinces.
By the time of WoR, Elhokar has been at war for 6 years following a jarring wake up call about his father’s mortality. Strangely, nobody seems concerned by the lack of an heir or the distance between the king and his queen.
Dalinar shows concern about maintaining a power base back home, but we don’t really get any idea about how much contact there is between the Shattered Plains and Alethkar proper. We do get some hints at the end of the book that the queen has not been doing a great job of keeping the kingdom together.
@29: I believe Elhokar does have a son. He’s back at home with mama, who seems really dumb.
But I think the whole system has some flaws. The Kholinar family was able to unify all the kingdoms for the first time in forever. But no. They do not have in place a set of rules for the governing and training of Highprinceses. Let alone the king of “everything.” This is not good.
But is very common in medieval worlds. I think the ‘training’ of a prince was more of a Renaissance thing.
War – yes learn that.
Diplomacy, governing, statecraft? Well, do your best.
Just not good.
Should not Navani have taught Elhokar more? Or is it a case of he would not listen to his mother?
I think there is an heir back in Kholinar. A young one. That’s why Adolin is third. Young boy, uncle Dalinar, Adolin.
You bring up a good point, though. Is there no holding court during times of war? It does seem like there should be councillors and advisors. Maybe Elhokar is too paranoid to let anyone into his inner circle besides family.
FWIW, I think modern Alethkar is still too “young” as a pseudo-unified kingdom to have worked through all the government issues. Gavilar was the first king of all Alethkar in many generations, and he apparently governed by force and charisma. Elhokar has neither, but so far they’ve had this war to keep them “unified” after a fashion; meanwhile, the queen does whatever she wants back home, theoretically guided (but mostly pandered to) by the ardents.
So, no. There’s no real concept of statecraft going on, because there hasn’t been for a very long time. If they survive the Desolation, they’ll need to set up something a bit more structured.
Going thru the comments:
TBGH@2 – WoB states that it’s possible for the spren to be revived, but very difficult (like @11 and @14 stated, I see).
I couldn’t find the exact origin of reference, but here are two:
But a popular theory amongst fandom (even demonstrated in some of the comments here) is that Adolin may be the one to find a way.
Halien@7 – I agree, Adolin’s reverence for his blade is neither sad nor sick to me either. It’s noteworthy that so few of the Shardbearers we have met have that type of view towards their Shards. Right away, this chapter shows us that Adolin has more depth than we were initially shown in WoK; which was a masterful stroke by Sanderson in demonstrating that Adolin isn’t just a lame stereotype but is a fully developed, 3-dimensional character.
Halien@16 – Good point about Adolin’s people skills not being all that strong. He has some… difficulties relating to women, and (if you go by the example of his relationship with Jakamav) his frienships with men don’t appear to be all that strong, either. His relationship with Kaladin only “blossomed” after Kaladin had saved his and (as important, if not even moreso) Renarin’s life.
Ways@19 – Yeah, chicken and waffles are quite delicious. I hope the spot you went to while in LA was Roscoe’s; they are legendary. I don’t see it all that strange to have chicken for breakfast; whether it’s done via fried chicken (with/out waffles), chicken sausage or even a little chicken breakfast sandwich, more people eat chicken for breakfast then one might think. (I’m quite intrigued by the Pennsylvania Dutch version; I may have to try that someday)
Andrew@21 – I’m pretty sure that Adolin did not have such a high view of Sadeas. From the get go, he didn’t want to trust Sadeas, but Adolin went along with the plan because his father told him to. After Sadeas’ betrayal, Adolin admonishes Dalinar for trusting Sadeas, referring to him as “an eel.”
@29-32 – I’d be real interested to see more of regular Alethi life-at-court before Gavilar’s assassination. Clearly there was some type of court life. And as was mentioned, Elhokar does indeed have an heir, although I don’t think we’ve even heard the prince’s name. (Funny that Navani never reflects on her grandson, especially when she is under the impression that one of her children is dead.)
Wetlandernw@32 – The kingdom is new but I gather the Princedoms have been around for awhile. Wouldn’t they just model after that?
I agree with Wetlander about Alethkar being too “new”. Remember that while Alethala was one of the ancient kingdoms of Roshar, a unified Alethkar is a very new entity. Yes, they could try to model the ruling structure on the model of the individual princedoms, or on their neighbor to the West, Jah Keved, which has been unified at least in name for a long time, but neither of those options is really ideal. The biggest obstacle is the struggle to subjugate the Highprinces, as Dalinar and Elhokar find when they try getting princes to work together in the first 2 books. It’s similar to the fight about State vs. Nation in the US, especially the Federalists vs the Anti-Federalists in the early years of the nation. (For you Brits, it’s like the struggle that nobles had with the monarchy which led to the Magna Carta). Even the most stalwart support of a unified Alethkar, Sadeas, doesn’t support relinquishing his hold over his old territories, and most of the Highprinces joined the kingdom reluctantly in the first place. It’s one thing to get them to agree to unify, and it’s generally easy to get them to go to war together (in fact, historically, invasion is one of the most trusted means of unifying nations), but it’s quite another prospect to get them to relinquish power in the name of a more unified Alethkar.
As a result, I think most of the government structure in place is still local or regional, with each local Brightlord ruling his local peasants, and each Highprince collecting taxes from his subjects and raising his own army, while the nation itself remains fairly impotent and a nation in name only. This is what Dalinar is struggling against.
@30, 32 Ah, yes, there is a son. Thank you. He’d slipped my mind. So there is some evidence that Elhokar has seen his wife at some point during the war against the Parshendi.
@32, 35 Even without a strong central government, you’d think that having the generation’s greatest scholar, and the previous generation’s greatest artifabrian in the family might lead to some higher quality education than the Kholin males seem to have gotten.
Perhaps the queen isn’t the brightest sphere in the pouch when it comes to statecraft, but it seems like there should be enough literature available on the matter for someone to be educated. We’ve seen a lot of depth and breadth to the texts scholars are supposed to know and we’ve seen husband and wife pairs that are quite good at coordinating together. There just don’t seem to be any in the crop of Kholins we see in the books.
Alethkar is a recently reunified kingdom, but it has been ruled centrally before. Most adult lighteyes seem at least familiar with the Sunmaker. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect him to have left behind a guide for his successors. He seems to have been quite active in reforming religion and its relationship to the state, so he was involved in politics.
We also have a WoB about the origins of the Oldbloods, who are descended from a former ruling dynasty of Alethkar.
There doesn’t seem to be an equivalent of the Roman Empire for states to borrow authority from and to model themselves after, but there are hints of a more unified past for Alethkar. We just seem to lack a member of the royal family that’s interested in such things. The real surprise for me is why Jasnah doesn’t seem more interested in helping to create a stable foundation for the fledgling Kholin monarchy.
Actually, united Alethkar being so new doesn’t explain Adolin’s ignorance. He is still a heir to the Kholin princedom and one would think that knowing glyphs would be essential for a future prince. And that there would be a traditional approach for education of such.
Also, count me among those who came to really like Adolin in WoR after being indifferent and considering him a stock character in WoK. I also add my voice to “no love triangles” petition and I would be extremely disappointed if Sanderson goes for the hoary trope of feisty princess + self-made commoner underdog with Shallan – Kaladin.
Re: reviving a shardblade spren, it would make sense that if anybody manages to do it, then it should be Adolin with his close and special relationship to his blade.
Oh, and chicken breakfast before a day of physical exertion makes sense to me. In some cultures, breakfast is supposed to be very substantial anyway.
@37: Why would knowing glyphs in general be a necessary part of princely education? I’m fairly certain Adolin knows the heraldic glyphs (as used on banners etc.), but since any form of actual bookkeeping is performed by women or ardents, I don’t see much application for it.
Halien @36 – You triggered a couple of thoughts, and I did a tiny bit of research…
In the first chapter of WoR, Jasnah refers to Adolin’s place as “Third in line, behind my brother’s infant son and Dalinar, my uncle.” She’d hardly refer to a 5- or 6-year-old as an infant, so Elhokar must have spent some time with Aesudan since the start of the war. Either that, or she’s been to the Shattered Plains, but I would expect the former.
As for Jasnah’s interests… I suspect her relationships with a dozen or so assassins were exactly geared toward “creating a stable foundation for the fledgling Kholin monarchy.” As of that fateful night six years ago, though, she’s had considerably more to focus on: Surgebinding, the Parshendi, and (as her research progressed) the Voidbringers.
@several – both the Oldbloods and the Sunmaker are essentially ancient history. (We don’t know when the Oldbloods were in power, other than “many years ago,” but the Sunmaker is the one who ended the Heirocracy, which is a really long time ago.) While it’s reasonable to think that either/both would have left something to build on in terms of government, it was long enough ago that the customs have lapsed. It would have been up to Gavilar and his successors to set up whatever laws and governmental structures became necessary, but Gavilar never got around to doing it.
If you look at the timeline, he got this bright idea of unification in about 1158, and it took him five years to conquer all the highprinces and “unite” them into one kingdom by 1163. It was just three years later (1166) that he and Dalinar went on the hunting trip that made contact with the Parshendi, and a year later he was dead. Since then, the kingdom has held together by the common causes of 1) vengeance and 2) greed. It has very little to do with actual leadership.
As to education… glyphs seem to be optional for men, and script is taboo unless you’re an ardent. All the serious effort requiring literacy is done by the women and the ardents; men are assumed to have someone (mother, sister, wife) who will do their reading and writing for them.
Wetlander @39 Halien @36 – I think it isn’t important to Adolin because, I think it was he who said it in WoK that an Alethi lighteyes is actually a pair. A man and a woman whose male and female arts complement each other. I’m guessing that he always assumed he’d eventually have a wife to deal with all the reading for him.
And, as Carl pointed out in this week’s chapter, he has been focussing on his calling. He hasn’t necessarily been shirking his duties, he’s just been a bit singleminded. Well, that and trying to shtupp every woman he meets.
I grew up in the New Orleans area. Have had chicken gumbo for breakfast many times. But then, I have also had hot dogs for breakfast, and hamburgers. And many other strange things. This morning, it was cheese sandwiches on home made whole wheat bread. Yesterday it was fettucine alfredo(with chicken).
Wetlandernew @39 said “… so Elhokar must have spent some time with Aesudan since the start of the war. Either that, or she’s been to the Shattered Plains, but I would expect the former.”
I respectfully disagree. I beleive it was Aesudan who came to the Shattered Plains rather than Elhokar heading back to the Capital. I had the impression that since the war began, Elhokar has been exclusively at the Shattered Plains. Further, when Navani returned to the Shattered Plains in WoK, people were surprised to see her. Her reply to Dalinar was that she was tired of being the dowinger regulated to the sidelines in the Capital. I took this to mean that since the Szeth assissinated Gavilar, Navani primarly remained in the Capital. It was Jasnah who acted as the chief female scribe for Dalinar. I think that until she became pregnant, Aesudan was primarily with Elhokar on the Shattered Plains.
I acknowledge no textual support exists for my theory. Until the text or WoB states otherwise, I will cling to this theory.
Thanks for reading my musings,
AndrewB
(aka the musespren)
(edited for spelling of Aesudan’s name)
How would you know if a man was dyslexic in Alethi society? It does seem odd not to be able to tell two glyphs from one, after all.
@43: Would even dyslexia have that effect? My guess is that Adolin really wasn’t paying much attention to the glyphs, and didn’t give a whole lot of thought to what he saying at that moment.
Re: Me @39 – Well, that was one of the less intelligent things I’ve said lately…
Obviously Elhokar has spent some time with Aesudan since the start of the war – either that or it’s not his kid! (Or Rosharans have an insanely long gestation period…) Since that doesn’t seem to be in question, it’s merely a curiosity ast to whether he went back to Kholinar, or she came to the Shattered Plains. Or whether they were both in the same place for a number of years. I’m not entirely sure it matters, but it’s an interesting thought. I have this vague (very vague) notion that something is actually said about it one way or the other, but I don’t think I care enough to try to find it.
@44, I’m not sure. I know there are different levels of dyslexia, and one dyslexic I know becomes confused about how many letters as well as which letters (I may ask her about this next time I see her if I can do it without sounding rude [which means I probably won’t]). But, dyslexics rarely have just two letters plopped down in front of them. On the other hand, glyphs are more complicated than letters, which seems like it would make it easier to confuse them.
Still, Alethi society has got to be a good place to be a dyslexic man. Even if you can’t do glyphs, it isn’t really held against you.
Glyphs aren’t necessarily clearly separated characters. The Bridge Four symbol has several meaning components but looks like one symbol.
KiManiak @33
I think the diner was on Century Blvd., not Manchester (closest Roscoe’s to LAX). The chicken and waffles were great, regardless. Maybe I can sort it out in a couple of week when I’ll be travelling to the left coast again (and sample more). :-)
And I have nothing Cosmere-related.
ETA–wait a minute, I’d still like to see opinions on whether or not the illustration actually depicts stances. Coppermind confirms my recollection of 10 stances, but also says each stance is based on one of the Ten Essences. This may or may not mean a particular stance is associated with an Order or Herald. Anyway, I’m not buying that the illustration is 100% depicting stances because the bottom one doesn’t look like a stance to me, it’s more of a kill-shot. Could be wrong, I don’t claim expertise in this area.
@48 I got the impression that each “stance” is a complete fighting style/philosophy of its own. So that illustration might be showing Ironstance moves, including an Ironstance kill-shot (or whatever stance).
And count me in for AdolinxShallan!
@42, 45, I think there was something indirect in tWoK about this. The quote is during Dalinar & Jasnah’s spanreed conversation. Dalinar says, “Your presence here is sorely missed. I’m certain he could use your counsel. He is relying heavily on Brightness Lalai to act as clerk.” Perhaps that would make Jasnah return.
Now if Lalai was the head clerk from the start of the war, he wouldn’t have needed to tell this to Jasnah. So the king had someone else as his scribe previously. It is logical that the queen would be the most obvious one as the previous clerk, given the traditional role of wife in alethkar. So not directly mentioned, but this is what I thought.
This Adolin chapter shows him in a reflective mood that may augur for some character development in the 3rd book. He will need it, both to overcome the stigma of having killed Sadeas and to deepen his relationship with Shallan. That relationship is complicated both by her newly achieved fame and the smoldering feelings between Shallan and Kaladin. It would take little to ignite their relationship into a passionate one. In the end, the latter relationship may turn out to be more of a sibling type – akin to Rowling’s Harry and Hermione, than a romantic one. But the sparks for the latter are there. In a word, Adolin will have to shape up, or the “ship’s” out.
Anyone else find it kinda silly Adolin calls Sadea “an eel” as an insult?
I mean AFAIK we have only seen one kind of eel on Roshar and I don’t think “beautiful slighty-mystic creature that has its own spren and defies the laws of physics” is what he was going for XD
@48, Ways, and others interested in combat stances. In the SCA most fencers are exposed to several schools of fighting. Many nerds have heard their names, when watching the fight between Wesley and Inigo.
When looking at this illustration, I immediately thought of the Renaissance Italian schools of fighting. And the books they left that show the various stances they hold for maneuvers. So I see starting stances for two different styles, several blocks, and yes the final kill shot for that style.
With Bellaberry’s theory that blade styles reflex Radiant order, my bet is that an expert of the time could read the blade style and tell you the stance style they represent. (Do we have a translation of these glyphs yet?)
If you want to see several examples of Fiore’s book check out “The Flower of Battle“, c. 1410. Or the Capo Ferro book from 1610.
I hope these help those not familiar with sword stances. Reminds me a little of the 5 basic stances taught in drama class for fight scenes too. Stage fighting was all about transitioning from one stance into another in a set sequence. You know, choreographed dancing with a fake blade. J
OK, got up my nerve and asked.
Answer: Yes, dyslexics have trouble telling how many words/letters are in front of them. Adolin may be dyslexic.
@53 Braid_Tug, bless you for referencing The Princess Bride.
@@@@@ 52 I don’t think Adolin was calling Sadeas an eel in front of him (as he would if it was an insult). I think he was probably just trying to warn Dalinar and others that Sadeas isn’t up to any good. Where I am from, we would probably use “snake” instead of “eel.”
@55: you are welcome. :-)
@Braid Tug
Can you really see blocks in those pictures? The direction of the edges of the blades and the direction in which a block would work dont fit together. Also, in pictures 3 and 4 the grip of the left fighter is reversed from the “basic” stance shown in 1 (right hand down to right hand up). So either the artist just messed up, or these are random impressions from a fight someone, who was not a fighter, saw or imagined.
@58: yes, I do.
In the second and third image. It reminds me of stances from the Fiore book. Not really Cappo Ferro. That is not a style for the large shardblade weapons.
In the second image I see the water sword deflecting the club off-line of shot. In the third images I see the club being caught in the wave and again forced off-line.
But I am not a fencer. I can do drills, but not fights. So I will ask more of my friends that do fight what they see when looking at the images.