Greetings, salutations, and what up: Welcome back to the Wheel of Time Reread Redux!
Today’s Redux post will cover Chapters 1 and 2 of The Eye of the World, originally reread in this post.
All original posts are listed in The Wheel of Time Reread Index here, and all Redux posts will also be archived there as well. (The Wheel of Time Master Index, as always, is here, which has links to news, reviews, interviews, and all manner of information about the Wheel of Time in general on Tor.com.)
The Wheel of Time reread is also now available as an ebook series, except for the portion covering A Memory of Light, which should become available soon.
All Reread Redux posts will contain spoilers for the entire Wheel of Time series, so if you haven’t read, read at your own risk.
And now, the post!
Chapter 1: An Empty Road
Redux Commentary
I made a joke in the last entry about how my early summaries were so adorably wee, but the thing is, my early summaries really are summaries, whereas my later “summaries” are much more akin to abridgments (and sometimes they barely deserved that title). It’s sort of hard for me to determine why exactly this changed so much as the Reread went on. The obvious answer is that I slowed down a great deal once I knew I wouldn’t have to get through the whole series in nine months, and thus spent more time on individual chapters, but if I recall correctly they were getting lengthier and more detailed even before that point.
And then there is the example of my Read of Ice and Fire blog series, in which the same gradual lengthening of summaries is occurring even though there was never any time constraint on my end involved. I think it’s probably partially my fault, and partially the fact that any story tends to start out simple and get more complex as they go.
Still, this chapter in particular is about 80% setting description and tone establishing, which is good and important stuff, but leads to lots of paragraphs like this:
Only trees that kept leaf or needle through the winter had any green about them. Snarls of last year’s bramble spread brown webs over stone outcrops under the trees. Nettles numbered most among the few weeds; the rest were the sorts with sharp burrs or thorns, or stinkweed, which left a rank smell on the unwary boot that crushed it. Scattered white patches of snow still dotted the ground where tight clumps of trees kept deep shade. Where sunlight did reach, it held neither strength nor warmth. The pale sun sat above the trees to the east, but its light was crisply dark, as if mixed with shadow. It was an awkward morning, made for unpleasant thoughts.
That’s a great descriptive passage, but not the kind of thing you include in a summary. As opposed to this:
Abruptly Rand realized what had been odd about the horseman, aside from his being there at all. The wind that beat at Tam and him had not so much as shifted a fold of that black cloak.
This is a marvelously effective image, and definitely one of the things that pulled me in the most in getting me invested in the story (which is why it got a mention in the original summary), because it accomplishes two things at once. For one, it’s just plain disturbing, adding to the overall ominous tone the chapter sets, but it also introduces a puzzle: how can something presumably made of fabric just ignore wind? It creeps the reader out and simultaneously makes them want to find out more, which is exactly what the writer wants. So well done there, Jordan.
As to my original commentary, I have to snort at the “Lord of the Rings acid flashback” remark, because apparently I had forgotten, or something, that all of TEOTW, especially the opening chapters, is specifically an homage to LOTR. Though then I do mention that again later in the same post, so actually I have no idea what that comment was supposed to mean.
Oh well. I’m still right about the attempted ambiguity over whether Rand, Mat or Perrin is Our Hero being undermined right at the start by Rand having practically the entire first chapter to himself.
Chapter 2: Ravens
Redux Commentary
It’s really amusing that Nynaeve has already gotten mentioned about four times in the first two chapters, with the result that the reader has a pretty clear notion of her character before we ever lay eyes on her, so to speak (as long as you don’t count the YA Prologue, which for practical purposes I’m not).
In rereading the chapter itself, I find myself amused at the sheer amount of bling Moiraine is described as wearing: besides her Serpent ring, her belt, necklace and head chain are all solid gold, and there’s silver embroidery on her cloak, because apparently there’s no rule in Randland about clashing jewelry being tacky. Heh. Not to mention, her blue-and-cream-slashed silk dress is about the most impractical thing for riding through the countryside as can well be imagined, short of, possibly, an actual wedding gown. Which means, of course, that she probably changed into it deliberately after she and Lan checked in. Which is also amusing.
Still, it totally worked toward her goal, which was to so overawe her country bumpkin targets that they’d do anything she said, so I guess I can’t be too critical of the choice. Whatever works, I guess. Still, talk about sticking out like a sore thumb.
Speaking of which, it’s also kind of funny (funny ha-ha or funny strange I’m not sure) that neither Lan nor Moiraine make the slightest effort to hide what they are, what with her wearing her ring and he wearing his Warder cloak so openly. I wonder if they were counting on Two Rivers folk being so isolated that not a single one of them would realize the significance (which seems like unnecessary chance-taking to me, although given Mat’s apparent notion of what Warders do, maybe not that much), or that they just didn’t care. I guess the latter, since they certainly care later on. It’s just a little odd, is all.
I was absolutely correct in identifying the best line being Moiraine’s:
“As the Wheel of Time turns,” Moiraine said, half to herself and with a distant look in her eyes, “places wear many names. Men wear many names, many faces. Different faces, but always the same man. Yet no one knows the Great Pattern the Wheel weaves, or even the Pattern of an Age. We can only watch, and study, and hope.”
Of course, now this just makes me irritated all over again that it wasn’t her there at the end, watching Rand-with-a-different-face walk away. Sigh.
“Do we have Trollocs in the Two Rivers? We have sheep. I wonder what could ever have happened here to interest someone like her.”
“Something could have,” Rand answered slowly. “They say the inn’s been here for a thousand years, maybe more.”
“A thousand years of sheep,” Mat said.
*snort*
I guess I can’t really make the standard comment we all used to make about Moiraine’s coin thing being weird and never used again, because it does get used again, very very eventually. In TGS or TOM, I think, when Elayne uses it to keep track of… Whatshisname, while he was spying on… Whatstheirfaces. You know, that time, with the guy, in the place!
(Shaddup)
It’s kind of dumb of me, actually, that I didn’t bring it up the first time, because it was definitely a point of contention back in the day among fans. Specifically because if I recall correctly, people used to use the “coin bond” to argue that Moiraine could possibly be a Darkfriend, because, as the argument went, the phrasing used here (when Rand is inexplicably loathe to spend his coin, and also is just a little too eager to do whatever Moiraine wants) suggests that the “bond” Moiraine is talking about is actually Compulsion. Which, asyouknowBob, is something only evil people do. Ahem.
Obviously, of course, there can no longer be the slightest doubt that Moiraine is a white hat, but even back in the day I don’t think I ever bought this argument. I don’t think Jordan meant to imply the coin thing was Compulsion, mostly because I’m not convinced that at this point Jordan had even really invented Compulsion. Because if he had, then I don’t think he would have chosen to phrase this bit quite so suspiciously.
*shrug* Or maybe he would have, I don’t know. It’s not like Moiraine didn’t spew ambiguity about her motives everywhere she went for most of the first five books, after all. Rand’s ongoing indecision over whether to trust her works because the reader doesn’t know whether to trust her for most of the same length of time.
Anyway, maybe it smacks a little of ret-conning but Elayne’s use of the same weave later on makes it clear (as far as I recall) that Compulsion has no part in it at all. So there.
And so there is where we shall leave it for now! Have a week, and y’all come on back next Tuesday!
Interesting observation re: Moiraine’s outfit, as she’s definitely shown she can rough it (and run naked through a ravine!) though the coin never struck me as anything other than the usual Aes Sedai tactic of getting people to do what they want them to do without actually asking because Asking Would Entail You Deserve An Answer and I’m an AES SEDAI SO SHUT UP AND DO WHAT I WANT.
I think that, in this case, the meta aspect of the first two chapters needs to override anything like logic in terms of Moiraine’s impractical clothing. An even shorter summary might run: “A Black Rider (with one super-creepy new detail) and Gandalf arrive in a country village that is extremely and deliberately isolated from world events. . .except that the village is not populated by British-ish characters raised on an ideology of duty but with backwoods Americans inclined towards independence, stubbornness and mistrust of authority. And Gandalf is a woman. Go!” It’s necessary to set up this complex intertextual structure that all the villagers immediately recognize Moiraine as the in-universe equivalent of a wizard. Her ornate clothing is the equivalent of a pointy hat and a big staff.
Plus, I believe there is eventually a retcon when it becomes appropriate to tell the female characters about weaves for doing instant laundry, and the importance the White Tower puts on the appearance of wealth and power. All of that becomes immediately relevant as soon as we hit Book 2, where I’m not sure anyone can argue seriously that the clothes are irrelevant details, at least not Rand’s clothes.
I don’t see any reason the coin bond couldn’t be Compulsion. We’ve learned throughout the series that the Aes Sedai’s position on Compulsion is more, shall we say nuanced, than there official pronouncments. “AsyouknowBob, Compulsion is something only evil people do…only the following 12 things are defined as not being Compulsion, even though it’s obvious to anyone with half a brain that they really are.”
Even if we assume the coin bond is “real Compulsion” as opposed to one of the “not-Compulsion” things like the Warder bond, I still think it’s possible. We learn that Moiraine has a bit of the “well-intentioned extremist” about her, and she doesn’t always obey the rules when she thinks the greater good is at stake; she uses Balefire, for example, even though it’s technically against Aes Sedai law to even know it. I think if Moiraine thought she needed to use Compulsion to insure the safety of the Dragon, she’d do it in a heartbeat.
Whoo! Thanks Leigh. I’m sure Moraine has changed since she arrived at Emmons Field, but I’m also sure that she has a number of dresses that are divided for riding, yet are still much nicer than anything ever seen in the Two Rivers before (I think in New Spring we saw that she ordered about half her dresses to be divided when she was preparing to embark on her search for LTT reborn).
Plus, are we absolutely sure that Moiraine’s jewelry is in fact solid gold, not gold plate? Many of those pieces would be too heavy to wear if they were 100% gold, and Rand as the narrator would hardly be inclined to make a distinction between “solid gold” and “gold-plated” at this stage. The “silver” embroidery might not need to be real silver either–channeling could probably pull a ductile metal like aluminum that thin.
You kind of have to assume sensible explanations like this, or else the amount of precious metal in Randland becomes economically ridiculous.
P.S. Somewhat referring back to Leigh’s original, controversial post on rape in Randland, but is it possible that Moiraine’s ornate appearance also sends a subtle signal that, in this world, at least some women can travel a countryside which realistically ought to have bandits while covered in bling and with only one bodyguard? It’s not long until Nynaeve sets out alone with no particular worries about being a lone female traveler, despite her deep-seated phobias about sexual violence that are later revealed, so it may not be too early for deep-level worldbuilding at this stage.
I’ve just noticed that you’ve started another re-read on these books.
Are Tor dot Com just going to keep re-reading Wheel of Time over and over again until the heat death of the universe or are you planning on stopping after a particular number? Two complete re-reads? Three? Fifty seven?
Leigh, even when Moiraine was in Finnland she seemed to “spew ambiguity about her motives”. Further, that was one of her characteristics that she kept once Mat, Noall and Thom rescued her. I would bet that for the rest of her life, she will “spew ambiguity about her motives,” including some of her future interactions with Thom.
Thanks for reading my musings,
AndrewB
Thanks Leigh,
The “attempted ambiguity” was fairly well undermined by the first chapter focusing on Rand, but I have to admit that I was still allowing for the possibility of the fakeout later on in the novel. It seemed too straightforward: the main POV character at the beginning of the novel, with his all-but-betrothed (a common trope, or so I thought), and with the name similarities ( “Therin” and “Thor”). It just seemed too easy, so I was waiting to be smacked by the okie doke. Maybe that’s what RJ was banking on.
Nice recall to our first impressions of Moiraine and Lan. I think we were supposed to get an air of sophistication from her, along with a combination of mystery and a hint of foreshadowed dread. All meant to strike awe in the “country bumpkins.”
Coin bond – never spent too much thought on that. I agree that it was one of those things that was introduced and then dropped for several books; but at least it was reintroduced, unlike Moiraine’s staff.
Well, even in today’s world if a pretty lady gave me a gold coin I would be willing to run errands for her no problemo. Probably that just makes me sad.
Here goes the wind for the first time! It does remind me of LOTR, and I remember comparing everything with it the first time (Rand = Frodo, myrdraal = nazgul, Moirain = Gandalf, OMG she’s woman that is so cool – being my first thoughts on those chapters.) I also like the fact it is sort of darker (the bad winter, black rider appearing right at the start) and somewhat more real.
Now, comparing LOTR with WoT gave me this idea… it’s the first time I’ve tried to write poetry in english, so I’m not sure if it’s correct, anyway I hope you like it (it’s a WoT version of Bilbo’s travelling song):
Wheel of Time turns on and on
nor did it end nor it begun
now myths and legends long are gone
so that their age can be reborn
pursuing is the eager wind
this rocky road one cold spring day…
that wind is not the beginning,
– but something begins anyway.
@9 DougL when I was a teenager? Mos def. Now? I like to think I have a little more worldly sophistication than those country bumpkins…Hopefully.
I always read the descriptions of nature etc. in the beginning of the series as being seen from the characters perspective, thereby giving them a background or rural knowledge and a deep embeddedness with the nature around them.
This is where they have lived for generations, this is what they are, most of them work the fields or have some kind of connection to the outdoors, so getting these intricate and detailed descriptions gives us an insight in how the Duopotamians view their surroundings and what they identify with.
Reference Comment 2 above: “British-ish characters raised on an ideology of duty”: that’s a strikingly inaccurate portrayal of the Shire Hobbits (who mostly obey “the laws of free will, because (they say) these are the laws most ancient and just” – I quote without checking the exact phrase). It’s also a strikingly inept portrayal of British recalcitrance.
To this day I remember reading that description of the horseman’s cloak not moving and just being completely sucked into the story by it. You instantly knew something was going down.
Funny, it never even occured to me that Mat or Perrin could have been the main character of the series when I first read this book… At the time I read this book it seemed so rare to have a series with more than one main character. I just took it for granted that WoT was going to be all about Rand… It was actually shocking later on when the other characters get developed and I realized… this series has more than one main character…. crazy!
Years ago, I was really bothered at how inconsistant the one power is in later books with how Moraine uses it in book 1… (because I need everything to make sense, guess that is why I like Sanderson) but like almost everyone else, I try not to dwell on it now… I figure it was just part of Jordan’s writing style and the evolution of the story.
@13, you’ve got a valid point, but the error is, I’m afraid, RJ’s, not my own. I was more or less paraphrasing the interview that he gave at the end of the first-edition audiobook of TEOTW. I agree that the depiction of hobbit ethics and the main characters’ attitudes towards duty, expectations and social class are far more nuanced in Tolkien than that; however, that pretty much sums up RJ’s reading according to that source, against which he wanted to write the Two Rivers.
Off topic but who can I talk to about my login being blocked?
And damn, I thought I was off rereading the WOT for a while after the last book, but reading this is making me want to start all over again :)
Stephen Clark, maybe the forum that Tor.com really needs is an official intertextuality board where we could pick all this apart with elaborate quotes from all relevant authors? That would be fun.
@11. MDNY
A real gold coin now (no chocolate), is likely worth a week’s salary to most of us. Run a few errands for a pretty lady sounds easier than doing what most of us have to do for a pay cheque.
@16 – Please email webmaster@tor.com describing the problem (and the login that’s being blocked), so we can look into it. Thanks!
@8 KiManiak: I can’t say I expected authorial judo the way you did on first read, but nice lens to try!
Honestly, though, I can’t imagine RJ having intended the readers to doubt that the main POV was in the Chosen One’s head for very long. At most the ambiguity of his two best buddies also being tied up in things gave Rand a little fuel for denial at first. That said, it’s become a little more obvious over time that Moiraine wanted to keep that ambiguity up so the Shadow wouldn’t see anything too suspicious, right? I mean, she got them out of their otherwise-doomed hometown because she’s a Good Guy and all, but she couldn’t have ignored the, er, convenience of having decoys around while she figured things out. Right?
Oh, and the compulsion/not compulsion thing: yeah, I don’t necessarily think the coin trick is shadowy, especially with Moiraine’s coming on strong with the Impressiveness and probably knowing exactly how far curiosity could pull a coupla country bumpkins into her sphere of influence. Doesn’t seem like she’d really need compulsion, just compellingness.
The first chapter initially put me off as much as “Dragonmount”; I might’be been frustrated with trying to figure out how they were connected. I read LOTR after TEotW (while reading TGH, actually) so didn’t recognize it as the familiar beginning of an epic narrative. The descriptive passages are lovely, though at the time I habitially wrote prose consisting entirely of nature description and hadn’t yet learned how to insert things like plot and dialogue.
@16: My account got blocked last week, and was just fixed. Definitely email them!
On dragonmount.com, I once attempted a WoT/Harry Potter cast list with Dumbledore as Moirane and Prof. McGonagall as Lan. Someone noted the hilarity of imagining those two in the WoT clothes described above, and I can still picture them that way.
Giving a Two Rivers kid a silver coin from outside is like giving an orphan a Christmas orange: the rarity of the experience makes them reluctant to give it up.
So, did we ever find out why Myrddraal cloaks don’t move in the wind?
And yea, Moiraine clearly put on her richest clothing and accessoirs in order to impress the natives. IIRC, this dress is not what she travels in, as we’ll see in a couple of chapters.
Even so, her wearing her AS ring is soo stupid on so many levels, and clearly is a rather clumsy way to expose her secret identity ASAP.
I do think that Moiraine herself mentioned at some point that the coins allowed her to influence the boys a little and that the boys were likely to hang on to them. So, yea, something like a very weak Compulsion is not out of the question, IMHO.
We already know that Moiraine would do forbidden things if she felt that it was warranted.
Anyway, I had been hoping that the whole “knowing the coin-bearers position without looking” thing could be used in some clever ways when a channeler had to fight together with people who aren’t warders and might have allowed for much better coordination. Alas. Generally, I felt that a lot of OP tricks we have seen weren’t ever used to their true potential.
And yes, I also like channeling in TEoTW and was somewhat disappointed by how it was changed and/or trivialized in the later volumes. Not to mention the power level inflation that made me wonder from LoC on why we were supposed to believe that armies continued to be important.
– Set up of early chapters is really Tolkeinish, almost to a distracting degree. That being said, the TR set up is excellent.
– All sorts of “retconical” issues with Moiraine – the assumption that not a single person in the TR would recognize an AS ring only being one of them. Use of a staff is another. Moiraine using her and Lan’s own names rather than pseudonyms (as she did elsewhere) is another.
– One of my personal disappointments with AMOL is that the series never resolved the Tam as most marriageable bachelor in the TR thread from the opening chapters. I kept waiting for him to fall into a relationship with someone, for love, warder service or both … and it never happened. I blame BS, yes I do.
I’ve reread TEOTW more than any other WoT novels and it always gets me these first few chapters, how niave Mat, Perrin and Rand are. I love how Rand puts his complete trust in Tam, and leans so heavily on his presense and how dramatically that dynamic changes as the books go on. It’s a long way to Rand-In-A-Box.
I also agree that I never doubted Rand was the One and Perrin and Mat were the slightly less imporant characters. Though I didn’t imagine they would become as important as they do and the way their characters evolve alongside (and sometimes more so than) Rand. I especially like Perrin’s return to the Two Rivers and how the dynamic changes.
mutantalbinocrocodile@2–
Largely agreed. This was part of the mthic set up to the story that draws us all in. Though I think the clothing is not too hard to explain away, as others have pointed out that she was out to impress the natives. Not using pseudonyms can be explained away that the TR is so far away from anywhere that it didn’t matter if they used their real names or not. As for the ring, it may be that we are assuming a bit too much ‘common knowledge’ on the part of your average bumkin to even recognize what it would mean. Though RJ did have a habit of making this seem less so in later writings (see Tam’s inexplicable knowledge of the details of the Dragon in the Ravens prologue written much later).
That reminds me, do we see any indication that Tam recognizes what
Moiraine is in these first chapters? I know the worldly Thom does, but given Tam’s retconned greater knowledge in Ravens, is seems that he would as well.
Also, I miss the more mysterious and mythical treatment of the One Power in this book (Moiraine’s staff, anyone?). I guess that would be hard to maintain with half the main characters becoming ‘wizards’ as the story progresses though.
Great job as always with the re-reads Leigh. One minor mistake, I think you may have used your previous post headers for these chapters. Chapter 2 is not “Ravens”, but rather “Strangers”.
Yeah, the first chapter being all Rand POV meant I didn’t even consider anyone else being the lead.
Lke @2’s comment, except for putting “clothes” and “irrelevant details” in the same sentence of a WoT comment.
What kept those cloaks un-windswept, dangit?
Re; the coin and Compulsion: I’m fairly certain RJ had invented the concept, if not the name, at this point. Late in the book, Moiraine mentions that the Forsaken “bound men to them–strong men who had fought the Shadow all their lives”.
@sps49, #28: I believe the Guide mentions that Myrddraal are “slightly out of phase with reality”, which gives them their powers and makes the cloaks ignore the wind as a side effect.
For decades I’d been looking for something as satisfying as LOTR. It was brilliant of RJ to begin the Wheel as he did. I was hooked when the Wind rose. The descriptive passage that Leigh quoted (Only trees that kept leaf or needle…) is a beautiful example of why Robert Jordan is a consumate novelist and Dan Brown is just an outliner.
@29, that’s the explanation, but I’m pretty sure it’s not in the Book of Bad Art, but actually in canon. Another Forsaken has a head-monologue that uses that phrase as reported speech by Aginor, and whoever the speaker is thinks it’s evidence that Aginor was totally creepy. But I honestly don’t remember which of them it was, or which novel.
I also believe Jordan hadn’t quite figured out how his magic system was supposed to work. I actually hated how TEOTW finishes with Rand become SuperBoy out of no where the first time I read it..
Anyway about the OP differences I now view it like this: in the beginning we are ALL the county bumpkins like those in the TR. We don’t get it cause they don’t get it. Only as time goes on and our main characters come to understand it does it grow in depth and “science”. Same thing with our knowledge of the world, wheel of time, etc.
“Men wear many names, many faces. Different faces, but always the same man. Yet no one knows the Great Pattern the Wheel weaves, or even the Pattern of an Age. We can only watch, and study, and hope.”
“Of course, now this just makes me irritated all over again that it wasn’t her there at the end, watching Rand-with-a-different-face walk away. Sigh.
I’m with you, Leigh. I know she played an important role at the big “pow-wow” before the LB….even though it didn’t seem big at the time….and she was technically “there”, at the end with Rand’s last battle with the DO…BUT….she doesn’t say or interact with Rand, much really. She’s just a present body. Meh.
Where did the Fade’s horse go? Can it ride the shadows, too?
What I like about the early chapters is how all the villagers are described as individuals, although we don’t come back to the Two Rivers until book four. In other books there would just be generic villager #4, but in WoT even minor characters met only once are individuals with their own story.
Re: Compulsion
As was mentioned by others already, Aes Sedai operate on a sliding scale of Compulsionicity (marvel at my word make up ability thingy). They might even have trademarked “I can’t believe it’s not Compulsion” as a brand name.
The warder bond has a clear Compulsion element to it, from the somewhat fuzzy “increased trust and compliance” in default mode to the full “do as I say” whammy. I think the only difference is that even then at least warders are aware of it happening, as opposed to “real” Compulsion which leaves the victim unaware of the manipulation.
Still, even this clear cut case of Compulsion is at best considered “bad form” and not some heinous act that is completely wrong on every possible level. Aes Sedai doctrine is very bendy that way.
So I don’t think that the coin thing was accidental/retconned. Moiraine clearly states that while the coins shouldn’t make them her pets, they should have at least ramped up their trust and tendency to go along with her plans. It’s just that she used totally okay I-can’t-believe-it’s-not-Compulsion instead of, you know, totally NOT okay Compulsion.
@34 birgit
Brandon even mentioned that RJ had lists in his notes detailing who was with every given protagonist at a certain time. As in there was a file “with Perrin” containing a list of everyone currently with Perrin. Not just, you know, Wise Ones, Aes Sedai, Warders, etc. … no, EVERYONE. Every. Single. Person. Even if they hadn’t been mentioned in the text yet as being with Perrin. There were even dozens of names for as yet unnamed characters plus often little tidbits about them, their history, character traits, and all that.
RJ’s worldbuilding was clearly over 9000!
the eye of the world was a pure source of not just the one power, but it quite possibly held bits and pieces of the aes sedai who had sacrificed thier lives building it, which could explain how Rand finally decided to start useing the power
although the majority of what he did was base stuff and not complex, it could also be argued that the eye of the world litterally tore apart the door on Rands past life and shielded him simultaniously from the taint coating him with complete protection
unless that came from elsewhere, as the only taint he really suffered ever seemed to be extreme frustration and stress from people trying to kill him, control him, or flat out ignore/fear him to the point of just running off and doing thier own thing while the world burns
@36 AleksisMichael
re: tainted Rand (ooooooOOOOOOoooooH, tainted Rand)
What, ridiculous mood swings, paranoia, a freaking voice in your head, and a second personality actually for a while taking over your body don’t qualify? He almost killed Perrin in a rage induced fit DURING A STAGED ARGUMENT, that’s how unstable he was. Also, Nynaeve checked Rand and the taint was all over his brain, only covered in Zen juice post Dragonmount epiphany. That’s not something that was there before or we would have had Zen Rand all allong…
Even taking the enormous pressure on him into account, Rand was insane to varying degrees for most of the series.
“Obviously, of course, there can no longer be the slightest doubt that Moiraine is a white hat, but even back in the day I don’t think I ever bought this argument.”
One of the advantages (disadvantages?) of being introduced to WoT by discovering the original New Spring novella first is that I never had any doubt that Moiraine was on Team Light. Which is good, since she’s one of my favorite characters – but would she still have been a favorite if I hadn’t met her first? I’d like to think so.
Heh. I never flagged that Rand would be the main character based on the first chapter. In retrospect, it makes sense, since the series start with him (which is the argument most often cited here)…
However, coming to WoT from series like Dragonlance, a party-based setting felt more common, so I was not looking for a single protagonist. Nice, though, that while Rand turns out to be the number one protagonist, there are multiple strong supporting characters (and not just Mat and Perrin), so it’s kind of a mix of both.
Re: Compulsion – remember, Moiraine is initially a wilder, and wilders’ tricks tend to eavesdropping (which we know she does) and quasi-compulsion. So it’s not terribly surprising that she knows such weaves, or that she has no real issues with using them. Moiraine is the ultimate pragmatist – she was prepared to used balefire, she was willing to sleep with Rand if it would help – I don’t think there are many things she would shrink from in pursuit of her mission.
Quasi-compulsion does seems to have its limits, but it was probably reasonable for her to expect three countryside teenagers to be more tractable than they turn out to be.
I see Tam’s continued single state as a shout-out to his past life outside the Two Rivers. He may have been disillusioned by the war and settled back in his farmer’s life with remarkable contentment, but I think privately he remains too deep a thinker to be satisfied with a village woman. You could read it as another LOTR reference – the fact that, after you have done great things, you may never be able to return to normal however much you want to. Of course this will become something of a running theme.
I find the casting of the ravens as the bad guys interesting, considering the later similarities of the trio to the Norse pantheon and the latter’s ties to ravens. Of course, Mat-Odin later has a more positive connection to them. Also, why are there natural forces (rats, ravens) on the Dark side, but not on the side of Light?
@31 I believe it’s in Graendals inner monologue that we get the Aginor quote about Myrddraal being slightly out of phase with time
and reality. I think it’s when she first meets Shaidar Haran (Path of Daggers maybe?).
mutantalbinocrocodile @5
No, it’s a subtle message that Aes Sedai fear very little even when travelling alone.
Isilel @23
Well a lot of the One Power stuff will remain inadequately used up until the end. Let’s face it, Randland is practically post apocalyptic in terms of One Power knowledge. It’s why every Aes Sedai and her mother looked up to the AOL so much.
Randalator @35
LOL, Compulsionicity. But I agree. I pointed this out before in the previous re-reads but Aes Sedai tend to have different internal definitions on what could be considered Compulsion. The Warder bond is the most common example. Moiraine herself considers it Compulsion and thus would never force Lan that way. Greens on the other hand, call it “bending him to her will”, and tend to use it as a disciplinary measure on itinerant Warders.
On the coins:
Were any of the three boys ever described as acting out of the ordinary, or in a manner that could be construed as kowtowing to Moiraine after receiving them? I’m kinda hazy on all the text used by now, but IIRC Moiraine simply told the boys she could find them as long as they kept the coins.
Compulsion is quite a leap. Not to troll the Compulsion discussion, but paying kids a silver coin for errands and the promise of more such payment for similar services in the future can be also considered a form of influence. And it’s the kind of bluff I can see an Aes Sedai engaging in.
Well. A day late and a dollar short… I don’t have anything to add to the discussion, I’m just commenting so this will show up in my “conversations” list.
Been moving home so no internet for a week.
Not much to say right now that hasn’t been said before. I agree with those who think that Moiraine and Lan had kitted out themsleves to impress the yokels. At first hand it appears a bit heavy-handed tactic from her but it’s not too hard to imagine possible reasons to choose it. The planned sequel might’ve shed light on this.
Of course, there could be meta reasons for this too, but it’s not necessary to resort to this way of thinking in this case, I think.
I’ve always loved detailed descriptions of setting and tone (again, a proclivity I myself am prone to in my writing), so aside from this making me like Jordan’s style overall, the opening parts of TEotW in the Two Rivers always drew me in. They really helped me to understand these people and where they lived, made them and their world seem more real to me. It’s a grounding that any fantasy story needs if it’s to hook the reader and get them invested enough that when the fantastical elements start appearing, they can suspend their disbelief.
And really, I always felt like I could see and feel the Two Rivers, probably because in a lot of ways they remind me of where I grew up in Iowa. I seem to recall a lot of people stating that it reminded them of their homes or places they knew, which just goes to show that certain kinds of places have a universal appeal or can be found all over the world, thus providing that bit of familiarity.
And I have to say that while the opening part of TEotW deliberately invoked Tolkien, I could always tell the difference between the two–it was a homage, not an outright plagiarism or Expy, to use a TV Tropes term. Case in point, the Fade–which, while its appearance is obviously meant to evoke the Black Riders, has a number of significant differences. We’ll learn of more later (for one thing, Fades are a lot more talkative than the Ringwraiths were, and despite their fear-inducing gaze they’re a lot better able to blend in–not being undead will do that), but the relevant point here is the non-billowing cloak, a detail which was not true of the Nazghul. And I for one rather enjoyed the fact that even after the series ended, we still don’t know exactly how it happens. Aginor had his theories, but they couldn’t really be proven and even then it still doesn’t explain the exact mechanism other than “creepy evil magic”…and that’s as it should be.
There’s also similarities between the Shire and hobbits vs. the Two Rivers and its people, even a few personality types which are found in both (setting aside Perrin being like Sam and Mat like Pippin and Merry, Nynaeve herself and Cenn Buie come to mind), but they are not identical, merely reminiscent. And of course our resident innkeeper is nothing like Barliman Butterbur.
I’m sure we’ll get into more of the similarities and differences as we go along, but I’ll conclude that for me it was never off-putting, in fact it was one of the big draws for me as Jordan intended–not just in it being like the other great fantasy series I knew at the time, but in finding out how and why it was different. And to segue from this into Leigh’s comments on the three boys and the obvious fakeout regarding who was the Chosen One, it’s important to note that while Frodo was the obvious hero in LOTR, his Shire companions were just as important to the story as Rand’s–Pippin saved Faramir from Denethor and helped convince Treebeard to bring the Ents against Saruman (just as Mat saved the day at Merrilor and brought in the Seanchan), Merry helped kill the Witch-King, and Sam is the one many consider the real hero of the story since he got Frodo to Mount Doom (just as Perrin killing Slayer and then Lanfear was what enabled Rand to reseal the Dark One). So even if it was obvious Rand was the main character, I was prepared to view the others as just as important to the story in their own way. (It also helps I had already read Brooks and Eddings, where the party concept with multiple characters who all had a role in saving the day was also used.)
Moiraine… *chuckles* I think you’ve hit on the reason she changed clothes like that, to overawe the boys (and the Emond’s Fielders in general) so she could obtain their assistance and obedience. She needed them to follow her advice and commands, but also to view her as a great, powerful, noble person from the start so that when things went wrong (I believe we were told that in the third prequel that never got written, she and Lan were racing Shadowspawn to get to Emond’s Field, and she knew the Dark One was after the Dragon Reborn anyway, so even if she didn’t expect Fain’s group specifically, she knew danger was coming) they’d be ready to listen to her.
As for the whole Aes Sedai thing, while it’s very likely Tam knew exactly who and what she and Lan were thanks to him having fought in the Blood Snow (but he’d also know, from having traveled out of the Two Rivers, that they were not what tales and legends said they were, good or bad), nobody else in town seems to have more than a few vague hints and rumors as to how they dress or act. I’m not even sure anybody else got close enough to see her ring (plus it is an old symbol from many Ages back, not just an Aes Sedai symbol), and nobody ever gives an indication they know what a color-shifting cloak means aside from Mat. I’m guessing Moiraine was counting on nobody knowing in this backwoods hamlet–and if they did know, she’d be able to easily cow them into obeying or at least not standing in her way.
Her best line in the chapter is another example of Jordan’s wonderful use of foreshadowing. At the time we first read it, it only hinted at the Wheel’s cycle of reincarnation which gets explicated more later and sets up for the reveal that Rand is Lews Therin reborn. But after AMoL we all know it now also applies to Rand ending up in Moridin’s body. While the symmetry isn’t there for Moiraine to actually view him leaving with his different face, I think the fact this quote is here at all, when viewed in the context of the last book, helps bring the concept to mind and shows how it comes full circle. Having Moiraine be there would have been the icing on the cake to cement it, but it’s still clear without her.
The fellow was Hark, Leigh, and he was spying on the Black Ajah at Shiaine’s house. And speaking of that, I have to say that your assertion of Elayne using the Finder spell showing it doesn’t act as Compulsion isn’t quite as cut-and-dried as you suggest…because I noticed how very eager and compliant Hark was to do as Elayne asked. Granted she was sparing him prison or execution, and he’d want to do all he could to stay in her good graces, but he also knew he was spying on people who were at least as bad as he was if not worse (since they’d been killing all the other spies set on them), if not that they were Darkfriends specifically. And his eager, obedient attitude really puts me in mind of Mat and Perrin’s attitudes here (and to a lesser degree, Rand’s). It’s clear that either whatever influence Moiraine had over them faded with time or was overcome by their own personalities (in Mat’s case–two words: Shadar Logoth) or innate magical resistance (Rand); Hark, being rather snivelling and subservient to begin with, seems to have retained the obedience directive better, though to be fair we only see him for those few scenes in KOD.
Anyway, point is, it isn’t entirely proven that the Finder doesn’t have that element to it. And aside from knowing Moiraine is willing to break rules and do forbidden things if it will get what she wants/help Rand/stop the Dark One, there’s the specific Blue Ajah weave she used on that innkeeper in Chachin in NS which you commented on…noting it reminded you of Liandrin’s Compulsion. (It also reminds me of Verin’s.) So if she was willing to do that, before she had been out in the world hunting the Dragon Reborn for years, I imagine she’d be willing to do something similar to the boys to guarantee their compliance. Of course we all know how that blows up in her face–but I think it’s worth noting that what little obedience she gets out of them now does result in them going with her and saving their lives, so there’s that.
@5 mutantalbinocrocodile: Very good point indeed! Even if one argues that Moiraine is just adopting the typical Aes Sedai arrogance toward non-channelers and that Nynaeve is being her usual brash, bullish, impetuous self, the two of them taken together does hint, I think, at what Jordan wanted to be true for women in his world. It’s also a nice reference back (although to us it’s a Call Forward, since this is before it was written) to the bit in the Guide where it stated that “a maiden could ride alone and decked with jewels from one end of Hawkwing’s kingdom to the other without fear of harm.” In modern times said maiden needs a Warder with her, but…
@10 Tessuna: Nice poem, I like it!
@21 AeronaGreenjoy: LOL, great now I’m seeing it!
@24 RobM: Considering how extensive Jordan’s notes were, I think you actually have to blame him for this, not Sanderson. Apart from Androl and Pevara’s subplots, giving Egwene two dinners with Elaida, and Mat’s split with Tuon during the Last Battle, Sanderson always said he never added anything to the books that wasn’t there unless he was directed to by Team Jordan. So if there was nothing in the notes about Tam finding a new wife, then Jordan never came up with it or thought it was important, and that’s why it was never added to the last books. And with the number of plot threads to resolve, can you really blame them for not adding something minor like that in?
@26 gadget: When Moiraine is revealed as an Aes Sedai after Winternight, I don’t recall anybody in the village hinting they knew what was she beforehand except Thom and maybe Tam. (See my thought about him above.) So I think it’s safe to say the ring wasn’t a tipoff to anybody in town–or if they did recognize it, they didn’t show it or act on it, which would excuse Moiraine thinking it was okay to wear it and even prove that to an extent she was right about the risk being minimal.
@28 sps49: I think you misread his comment, he made it very clear that clothing was not irrelevant in WOT at least as of book two; his only implication was that maybe it wasn’t as important in the first book (or if it was, we hadn’t yet realized this or discerned what made it so).
@34 birgit: I guess they can, since there’s no other explanation for it vanishing.
@35 Randalator re: Jordan’s notes: Wow, that’s incredible. But in character for him, and it explains a lot.
@40 Meira: In ToM when Graendal uses the dove to spy on Rand, she notes that “using one was more difficult than a raven or a rat, the Dark One’s own favored eyes. The weave worked better on those than it did for other animals.” So while there don’t seem to be any animals that specifically serve the Light (though I would argue the wolves’ hatred of Shadowspawn makes them a good candidate for Light-serving animals), apparently any aside from ravens and rats have some resistance to the True Power that keeps them from being used by the Shadow, at least to any great success. As to why no animals specifically act as eyes and ears for the Light, that would be because the Creator does not take part (mostly…).
@41 Evermore: You’re right about the Graendal scene. It’s also brought up obliquely in LOC by Semirhage when she is meeting with Haran during the torture of Cabriana Mecandes, where she notes that “Aginor tested over a hundred Fades but could not learn how they use shadows” and that she herself had determined they didn’t know how they did it. Since it is being out of phase with reality that enables them to shadow-travel too, then this trait causing their cloaks not to flap in the wind is probably just as inexplicable to them (and Aginor) as the shadow-traveling.
Re: Compulsion. The text definitely hints at the use of Compulsion here. If you compare the reaction of Rand here (he wishes he can do something to please her or to stay in her company), it is very similar to the reaction of Nynaeve and Elayne when under Compulsion by Moghedien.
Whether this has to do with Moiraine being a wilder, I don’t believe that’s the case. IIRC, wilders have affinity with either the eavesdropping or Compulsion, and in the Waste (TSR? Earlier already?) it is explicitly mentioned that Moiraine uses her eavesdropping affinity.
I think the situation here is just what it is: rural boys are confronted and subsequently very impressed by a worldly, attractive woman, and feel the need to not appear so rural/inexperienced in her company. Unfortunately, the descriptions used are very similar to later descriptions of Compulsion…
macster @46: I immediately thought of the wolves as well. There are even wolf Heroes of the Horn!
Some know this already, WoT was my first fantasy book. Junior high, I was in 8 th grade.
So I came to it with no firsthand knowledge of LotR. just a friend who liked to talk about it. Do l lose nerd points?
The discussion is making me realize how my lack of familiarity with the tropes infulanced my reading.
I have more to say, but typing this on a phone is really annoying.
@47 Bouke
re: rural boys eager to please the mysterious beautiful lady
quoth Moiraine to Rand:
– The Eye of the World, chapter 52
Not to put too fine a point on it, but COMPULSION!!!11one one eleventy
Randalator, you’re right, I totally missed that!
Compulsion after all! The horror! The exclamation marks!
Bourke @47: I don’t believe there’s anything that says it’s exclusively one or the other; it’s merely said that most wilder “tricks” fall under eavesdropping or Compulsion. There’s no reason that a particularly precocious wilder couldn’t have some of each! :-)
And Randalator @49 beat me to pointing out that quote. :-)
Randalator@49
Nice. Just goes to show that careful reading really pays off.
But I suppose typing retcon is kind of a solution too.
The Blue Ajah (and probably the rest) maintain plenty of ‘secret’ weaves that aren’t ‘quite’ Compulsion. Like the fear weave Moiraine uses in NS. This is probably one of those.
mac @46 – stop trying to apply logic to my emotional response, darn it!
Regarding Tam al’Thor, it is conceivable that he always suspected that Rand was to become the Dragon Reborn.
1. He knew the prophecy
2. He found the child
3. He protected him from the outside world as long as possible
4. He taught Rand the VOID
5. He saved the sword and went back to the farm so he could give it to Rand at the appropriate time
6. He gave Rand unequivical approval to leave with Morraine
too many coincidences
Mike
TheWeatherman @55
Don’t forget Aes Sedai, Warder and Trollocs all appearing at the appointed time.
Randalator @49
Suggestion/Compulsion-lite? Moiraine is hard enough when needed, but she won’t even use the Compulsion that’s built into the Warder bond. I suspect she simply did not realize how hard-headed Two Rivers folk could be.
A few quick things: no one will see this since today is new post today, but I haven’t been able to post the last couple weeks. I’ve lurked when able, though.
So a few quick things: Re: Compulsion, keep in mind that Compulsion is a specific weave. It’s not just *any* form of coercion – plenty of Aes Sedai are fine with using coercion. The specific horror that is Compulsion, in my mind at least, is that anything other than a quick, glancing use of it has permanent debilitating effects. Morgase is *still* attracted to Rahvin’s memory, Perrin will *always* be a little enthralled by Lanfear, and of course there are many examples of people having their wits permanently dulled. “Healing” Compulsion is sort-of possible, but the cure is worse than the disease, as we saw when Nynaeve attempted it in TGS.
So anyway: Compulsion is a specific weave that has specific nasty side-effects. And while the weave is lost to Aes Sedai (at this point in the story) and probably the reasons why it’s so vile and forbidden aren’t well-remembered, still it’s the specific weave that is verboten, not any form of mind-coercive weave. Likewise, balefire is forbidden because of its specific nasty side-effects. Fire and lightning and other forms of killing are fine, when allowed by the Three Oaths. Balefire and Compulsion are forbidden because of their specific side-effects, not because of particular high-mindedness from the White Tower.
Second, RobMRobM, all the furor over Tam needing a wife never made sense to me. (The Tam/Morgase shipping, which iirc was a theory you were fond of, especially never seemed credible to me.) I find, reading it again now, that it makes even *less* sense to me why people are so invested in pairing Tam off. I’m not trying to talk you out of your emotional response which is perfectly valid. Just sharing my contrasting one.
Which is, that as a 40+ year old confirmed bachelor, I find matchmaking irritating, fictional or otherwise. (I find the “who will Shallan/Kaladin/Renarin/etc.” discussions in the Stormlight discussions irritating too. What if they don’t end up with anybody?) Like any good Two Rivers person, I and Tam dig in our heels against it. I’m not sure why you would side with the goodwives who think Tam “needs” a wife, instead of trusting Tam to make that decision himself!
And yes, I’m projecting. :) And
In any case, I think it’s sweet that Tam is so devoted to Kari’s memory that he’s not interested in anyone else. I’m not saying it’s wrong for others to move on and find new love when in that situation; but it’s not wrong for Tam to live his life single/widowed if he so chooses, either.
Hm…some thoughts on the Prologue I was going to share (which I find beautiful and inspired, by the way, ‘purple’ or not). But I want feedback on them, so I’ll save ’em for the new post that’s coming soon!
Chaplainchris1@57 – I see you, Chaplainchris1. :-)
Re: Compulsion – I think we are talking around it a bit, but you make a solid point about that particular weave being forbidden. However, I believe that Aes Sedai have displayed multiple methods to produce the same end product, and labeled it with the same name.
The easiest example is producing a Fireball. Some Aes Sedai use the throwing motion, some don’t. I don’t remember if the exact mechanics of the weave are the same or not, but I think it’s mentioned somewhere in WoT (*Sigh* I’m so rusty on my WoT facts; I haven’t done a full WoT reread since before AMoL came out) that you could tell which Aes Sedai learned from whom, based on the way they executed certain weaves.
All that to say, maybe it’s not just the exact mechanics of the weave that the Aes Sedai judge, but the end result. So Compulsion-lite could be a thing. But you make strong points about the dangerous side-effects of Compulsion too.
So I don’t really have a strong opinion on this topic one way or the other; just adding to the discussion I suppose…
Oh, and Shallan will not end up with Kaladin :-)
@47 Bouke: Agreed. No confirmation from Team Jordan but until I’m told otherwise, I will believe the wolves are indeed animal servants of the Light. (Plus by definition to be a Hero of the Horn you have to serve the Light. Granted we aren’t told every wolf becomes a Hero, but such a large number do it certainly seems the species is predisposed toward the Light.)
@49 Randalator et al.: Being “willing to fall in with what someone wants” and being utterly obedient and forced to do as someone wishes are not the same thing. Or to put it another way, what was done to Nynaeve and Elayne did not leave any permanent effects on them like what happened to Perrin and Morgase (or poor Kerb), so clearly if it was Compulsion it was only a light form of it–again, like what Liandrin and Verin could do. So Aes Sedai definitions aside, and the dangerous effects of full heavy Compulsion, it seems clear that if Moiraine did anything, it was a different, lighter weave meant only to nudge and encourage, not directly manipulate. (She didn’t say “you should have been completely compliant to my will” or “you should have been willing to obey my every command.”) To use D&D terminology, Charm Person vs. Dominate Person.
@53 Narvi: Yes, I mentioned that. :)
@54: Horrors yes, you might start thinking I was a White when quite clearly I’m a Brown. Or a Purple. “Your dress is green.”
@59 macster
Well, that was was kinda my initial point what with the sliding scale of Compulsionicity and all that.
We’d clearly file Moiraine’s coin trick under the umbrella term “Compulsion”, although obviously a mild and rather polite one. Whereas the Aes Sedai are all “What? Compulsion? Dude, that is so not Compulsion in any way, shape or form because it’s like totally different and suits our needs and by the way you totes know nothing Jon Snow!”.
Chris -etc. I thought RJ would do something with Tam, either having him die boldly (like the Tam analog in the Prydain Chronicles) or giving him a future other than a solo return to his isolated farm in the TR – which is a bit of a bummer if you think about it. Tam had Kari and Rand, and then just Rand, and now no one.) So a spouse or a partner made sense to me. No doubt you are not living isolated and alone on a farm a significant horse ride away from civilization, so you are in a better place than Tam post-series…. :0)
Tam-Morgase – admittedly a stretch but I was waiting to see if the clues that might have indicated a link (Kari from Camelyn but no details on her status; Tam spent time in Camelyn while with the Companions; Morgase said she was familiar with TR speech) would have borne fruit. No such luck.
Another interesting part of this coin discussion is how Aes Sedai can use the Warder Bond to coerce or encourage obedience from a non-channeler. The Warder Bond is perhaps the closest modern example of AoL Standing Weaves, it’s just attached to a person rather than a Ter’Angreal or object to provide power (Shock Lances/Electricity to homes).
This gives the Warder certain positive side effects (increased stamina, sensing Shadow Spawn, a “find my Aes Sedai/Warder” feature) because Warders are “connected” to their Aes Sedai’s OP, albeit with a degree of separation through the weave. Essentially, the Warder becomes a walking, talking Ter’Angreal. We know the “standing weave” can be shifted to another Channeler (Moiraine to Myrelle to Nyneave). I’m convinced that the Channeler acts as the battery to “power” or “maintain” the weave.
Both Compulsion and the Warder Bond are essentially Spirit, but Compulsion is laid on the brain and tied off, so it doesnt create any mutually connective pathways. The Channeler can “amp up” a portion of of the Warder Bond to promote various levels of obedience (depending on how strong willed their Warder may be, which is another element of resisting the Compulsion weave). This is likely the part of the bond that inadvertantly creates emotional confluence (with Compulsion there is a strong emotional component as well with histrionic or dependent personality disorder features), which a channeler can mute or clog as needed along with their “location beacon.” If both persons can channel, then the compulsion feature of the Bond is very likely a matter of who can flood that particular established pathway of the Warder bond with more power; essentially it comes down to who’s the stronger battery.
That latter bit is a best guess based on what we see in the series, since I don’t think it comes down to inherent gender differences between channelers (e.g., men tend to be a little stronger, but two women can link without a man, men being more talented with fire and earth/women with wind and water, women being able to weave stronger webs because they are more dexterous with their “smaller” threads egro channeling men are “immune” to the Warder Bond’s obedience feature). This has fun crossover similarities with what it takes to “strain” through (maintained) or “unravel” (tied off) a shield as well as cut weaves “whip lashing” back on their Channeler if they aren’t released in time. The “whip lash” of a standing weave bond upon the death of either individual in the Bond contains that very same “right in the feels” component that turns non-channelers bezerk and throws channelers into a close to uncontrolloable grief laden depression. The Channeler probably fairs better due to their connection to the OP.
So I’m guessing Moiraine used a modified bonding weave with the coins. A Blue Ajah trick of the trade or something she came up with herself.
Edit for spelling errrors.
All of that really speaks to the strength of will that Siaun has too. First her Warder is killed (emotional whiplash of a standing weave), then she’s stilled (no OP protection against the emotional whip lash plus the additional loss of the Source). That’s like your BFF/Spouse being murdered in front of you and then having your spine shattered by the same organization who murdered your BFF/Spouse. Then they toss you in a cell just to rub things in before the execution. Elaida’s truly a horrible human being…
I never had any doubt in the first book that Rand was the hero and Perrin his most loyal companion but I was convinced that Mat was going to betray Rand, a belief I held through most of the second book. It’s strange because after the dagger’s curse is listed Mat was always my favorite character although I think in Memory of Light he isn’t used fully
after he and Tuan reunite in the garden
Whoot! I claim the hunny!
Hi Leigh ::waves::
Couple of things.
First, I am doing the reread on my ereader instead of the ol’ pulp method, partly because I am juggling books, partly because I am juggling life and am reading well into the night. Very different feel, but RJ’s words still have power. What really stands out is I just reread AMoL and then to loop around and go to this, the writing styles really do stand apart. RJ loved pace and lauguage, he was setting every scene. A very stark contrast.
Moiraine. On the face of it she was kinda doing the Lady hanging with the commoners thing, hardcore. Who even packs along silk and velvet and slippers back when? Velvet travels well I suppose, but silk wrinkles and unless they are going along with a bunch of pack horses, or have Hermione’s purse, that screams of high maintenance. Gandalf just had a pipe. Looking back on this I also see the contrast with the Ash’amen, guys handle themselves by themselves and channel to boot, Moiraine has Lan.
Seeing the way the boys eat up all the stuff Moiraine puts to them also sets me on edge. Further along in the reread I started ranting about terrible communication being the the bane of this story. If folks were just up front and honest, some of this “he said, she said” drama would go out the window. Moiraine wanting to be all “Great and Powerful Oz-like” smacks of needless manipulation. Once stuff(keeping it pg here folks) gets real, rip the bandage off and lay it out to them, “Fades and Trollocs are after you, come with me if you want to live…. Oh, btw, one of you is the Dragon Reborn”. Something like that.
Okay, maybe that was more than two things. meh.
Woof™.
@65 subwoofer
re: travelling with silk
Come on, she’s Aes Sedai. Do you really think, there’s no weave for ironing wrinkled clothes? They probably got that down before they even founded the White Tower.
To the question of whether Tam recognises Moiraine as an Aes Sedai: what else would he be talking so earnestly about to the village council during chapter 2?