The Dune Reread is going to keep questionable items in our dining rooms, ponder age-old feuds and sit with guilt, then get almost-assassinated! So. Pretty full docket, there.
This week we’re questioning the practicality of bobblehead toys. What is the intended purpose of bobbling? Does it provide any measurable joy? These are the questions that plague us. (Actually, the questions that plague us are hopefully more meaningful, but this is still a big one.)
Index to the reread can be located here! And don’t forget this is a reread, which means that any and all of these posts will contain spoilers for all of Frank Herbert’s Dune series. If you’re not caught up, keep that in mind.
With the Lady Jessica and Arrakis, the Bene Gesserit system of sowing implant-legends through the Missionary Protective came to its full fruition. The wisdom of seeding the known universe with a prophecy pattern for the protection of B.G. personnel has long been appreciated, but never have we seen a condition-ut-extremis with more ideal mating of person and preparation. The prophetic legends had taken on Arrakis to the extent of adopted labels (including Reverend Mother, canto and respondu, and most of the Shari-a panoplia propheticus). And it is generally accepted now that the Lady Jessica’s latent abilities were grossly underestimated.
—from “Analysis: The Arrakeen Crisis” by the Princess Irulan [private circulation: B.G. file number AR-81088587]
Summary
The Lady Jessica stands in a great hall on Arrakis in their new place of residence, a very old complex from days of the Old Empire. She has unwrapped two things that strike her as symbolic and unsettling—the portrait of Leto’s father and a black bull’s head mounted on wood. Duke Leto arrives and tells her that other areas of the place are more inviting than this hall, particularly the living quarters in the south wing. He rejects her desire to hang the portrait of his father in this hall, insisting on having it hung in the dining room even though he knows that its presence makes Jessica uneasy while she eats. He renews her permission to eat in her own quarters excepting formal occasions. He tells her that he is concerned for her comfort and that they have engaged servants who have been vetted. The housekeeper is Shadout Mapes—“Shadout” is a Fremen title of respect that means “well-dipper”—and she is well thought of by Hawat, and keen to serve Jessica due to her Bene Gesserit background.
Leto also tells her that Duncan is working hard on getting the Fremen to be their allies, and Jessica asks about what he will need for his rooms when she assigns them, putting aside her worries. She wants Leto to rest, but he is busy trying to ensure that the many spice hunters on Arrakis don’t chose to leave the planet with the change of fief. He tells her that he will send a guardcar for Paul to attend his conference, then leaves and sends Mapes in. The old woman refers to Jessica as “Noble Born,” which she corrects, explaining that she is the Duke’s concubine but only companion. There are people calling outside and Jessica asks after them. Makes tells her that they are water sellers, which she will never have to worry about because there’s a cistern on the premise that holds 50,000 liters.
Jessica and Mapes converse, and Jessica plays into the Bene Gesserit stories, showing her talents and acknowledging that Mapes has come with a weapon. Mapes insists that it is intended as a gift if she proves to be the “One,” but Jessica knows it will be used against her if she is not. Mapes produces a crysknife, the weapon of Arrakis, never taken off-planet. She asks Jessica if she knows what the weapon is, and Jessica realizes that Mapes asked to serve her for the purpose of asking that single question. She knows that the ancient name for the weapon translates to “the maker of death,” but as soon as she says “maker”, Mapes is overcome. Jessica realizes that Maker is the key word and uses it, and Mapes believes that the prophecy is about her. When she makes to offer the knife, Jessica points out that she sheathed it without drawing blood, and Mapes tells Jessica to “take her water.” Jessica draws only a line of blood and notes that Mapes stops bleeding almost immediately; it appears that the people of Arrakis have ultrafast coagulation to retain their water.
Someone is coming and Mapes makes to hide the knife in Jessica’s bodice, saying that anyone who sees the knife has to be cleansed or killed. Mapes asks what Jessica needs her to do, and she tells the woman to hang the old Duke’s portrait in the dining hall and the bull head on the wall opposite. She is not to clean the bull’s horns because they are covered with the old Duke’s blood—this is the bull that killed him. Jessica tells Mapes to start unpacking boxes once she has completed that task, and notes how wrong she feels after these encounters. She rushes off to see Paul.
Commentary
The opening section here gives us a few clues, but perhaps the most interesting of all is the note that this work is in “private circulation.” As it lists a “B.G.” file number, we can assume that this is from the private Bene Gesserit collection containing works that deal with their histories. So we can guess that there are elements of this piece that the Bene Gesserit would not like the general public to know, likely in the vein of “myth seeding.” Here we have record that the order makes a point of creating and spreading its own legends for the purpose of keeping its operatives safe.
This is an awesome way of incorporating prophecy into a fictional world without relying on it as truth, the way fantasy often does. Here, mythology is a matter of careful pruning and passing, something that sharp organizations can use to their benefit if they are constantly spreading their people about. The originator of the need for implant-legends likely comes from the fear that Bene Gesserit women would be perceived as “witches” as women once were, and harmed or even killed for their perceived abilities. So now the reader understands that these measures are taken to ensure the survival of Bene Gesserit operatives, and that these particular measures will be invaluable to Lady Jessica in the rest of this story. We are getting the insider scoop so that we know not to take these legends at face value—we are privy to the truth, which is of great value in this tale.
There are so many things at play in this section. My first curiosity comes from the Bene Gesserit manner of essentially selling their students off to powerful people. We know that Jessica was “bought” for the Duke, and that the same purchase could have ultimately extended to marriage. This means that the Bene Gesserit train their recruits to this purpose, by and large, and that people throughout the Imperial region recognize certain privileges in essentially owning one of their trainees. There was some talk in the comments last week about how much the general population knows about the order’s machinations and power, and it prompts a question of what sort of front they present in this world. They clearly produce women of great power and importance, but do they downplay that power to the general public?
For example, the Duke and many others know about the Bene Gesserit “voice,” but trust that these companions they purchase will not use it on them. This suggests that the order greatly downplays their political motivations, and largely bill these abilities as tools for the purchaser to use to their own benefit. These women are touted as useful to your own station and ambitions. I’m sure that the Bene Gesserit vet these clients, but they also clearly have no compunction about selling their women off to unsavory figures if the benefit is great enough to their overall goals.
Jessica struggles with the burden of such power and how she employs it. She knows that she has the ability to control the Duke, but pleads with him instead to prove to herself that she won’t. That in and of itself gives us a clear idea of her struggle; the ability to shape things as she sees fit versus the desire to give Leto what he wants because she loves him. It doesn’t help that not all of Leto’s demands are remotely fair—giving your wife “permission” to dine alone in her rooms because you have to hang a gross painting of your dad and the head of the bull that killed him? Gee, what a swell guy.
Is there a real tradition behind this? Leto indicates a certain ancestral duty in it, but it’s never specified. Is it Atreides law that you have to keep an image of the previous Duke where you eat? Is it necessary to also have the means of his demise on hand? Does it have to be the dining hall? Then there’s the question of the matador cape and the old duke’s death by bull; a family right of passage? A weird personal passion? A form of execution ordered by someone in power? I believe that as far as we know canonically, it’s just a hobby of his. It does make you wonder if it’s linked to the Atreides heritage. (Their name is Greek, of course, after Agamemnon’s father Atreus; his descendants were known as Atreidae.) We learn later that Jessica really hates that old guy, which makes you wonder if she knew him, or only knows him by the unfortunate temperament he left to Leto.
There’s an oddness also to the politics of marriage in this universe. The Duke teases Jessica about being thankful that he never married her, otherwise she’d be forced to dine with him whether she liked it or not. There is mention later about keeping the potential for a Great House alliance open, but there’s also a suggestion that keeping Jessica as a concubine allows her more freedom. On the other hand, the Duke might just frame it that way to take the sting out of his choice not to marry her, something we learn in the next section that Jessica truly wants.
I bring up these politics because they are central to this story; the idea of legitimate companionship and where affection does and does not come into play. This is important for Jessica and Leto, and will later be very important for Paul, Chani, and Irulan. It is interesting to me that marriage is still deemed emotionally important in this system at all—if motivation to marry is largely a political thing, you’d think the weight of the institution would lose some of its potency. It would be regarded as a means to an end, rather than this complex issue where the question of a person’s true affections come into play. But instead we have a layered system where both a concubine and a wife can be the same or different in terms of what they offer. (Now wondering if this extends to women with power, i.e. are there male concubines. It doesn’t seem likely, given what we’re presented with, but it would be interesting.)
The meeting between Jessica and Mapes is one of my favorite exchanges in this book. We watch Jessica expertly turn the Bene Gesserit myth-making to her advantage and play on this woman’s desire for a prophecy to come true. She is well-attuned enough to know how to present herself, when to speak and not to speak, when to be unforgiving and when to withdraw. This is what the opening section from Irulan’s writing was alluding to—Jessica was underestimated because the Bene Gesserit did not glean her talent for playing on the expectations of others, for sussing out their desires and twisting them to her advantage. She doesn’t know everything she needs to, but she never missteps, learning information by allowing Mapes to give it to her. It’s sort of similar to how fortune-telling and mediums work; you let the person you are reading give over everything you need.
This is also the first we see of a crysknife, the native weapon of Arrakis that has some very particular rules surrounding it. If you draw the knife, you are not permitted to sheath it without drawing blood, which is kind of an awesome rule—basically “if you’re going to draw this you better mean it, don’t just keep pulling a weapon all willy-nilly.” Also, it has to stay close to your skin or it dissolves… which I would love some fake-science reasoning for. I mean, you could make a comment about skin oils, but the knife is always sheathed, so maybe it’s body heat thing? No idea. Of course, Mapes tells Jessica that it comes from “shai-hulud,” but we don’t yet know that this is a reference to the sandworms. The breakdown of those terms in Arabic translate to “royal-eternal.” Which seems an apt set of terms for describing something that you tie heavily to god.
* * *
“Yueh! Yueh! Yueh!” goes the refrain. “A million deaths were not enough for Yueh!”
—from “A Child’s History of Muad’Dib” by the Princess Irulan
Summary
Jessica enters the room where Paul was meant to be studying with Yueh. He’s not there, so she asks after him; Yueh tells her that Paul was tired so he sent him to rest, calling Jessica by her first name. He apologizes for his familiarity, which Jessica easily forgives, and Yueh is grateful that his slip will prevent Jessica from overanalyzing how off he seems. He knows that Jessica does not have the full Truthsayer powers the way his wife did, but he tries his hardest to be truthful with her regardless, and talks of how the people on Arrakis look at them. He directs her attention to the palm trees lining the house and points out that watering one palm for a day is the same amount required for five men. He’s thinking of his wife, unsure if she’s dead or alive at Harkonnen hands. He also has a plan to betray the Baron when they finally come face to face.
Jessica asks if she can look in on Paul, and Yueh agrees since he gave Paul a sedative to relax. Jessica looks in on her son and thinks of all the genetics that had to combine to create him. Yueh goes back to the window, wondering why Wanna never gave him children, wondering if there was a Bene Gesserit reason. Jessica retreats from Paul, and she and Yueh consider the abandon of a child in sleep. Then Jessica asks about the water situation on Arrakis, pointing out that according to the planetary evidence, there should be water on the world. She believes that something is plugging it, and Yueh suggests that the Harkonnens have kept information from everyone. Jessica notes that Yueh seems to have a deep hatred for the Harkonnens, but he can’t manage to voice his sorrow. She feels affection for him and his struggle.
Jessica points out their precarious position on Arrakis, the fact that the citizens rioted when they found out how many new people the Duke was bringing along and only quieted when they learned that they were bringing more windtraps and condensers. There are shields and guards everywhere, and she senses death on the planet. She knows that Hawat is bribing people at high levels to ensure their survival. Yueh suggests that she distract herself, but Jessica knows that is not her purpose. She figures that the Duke wants her to be a sort of Bene Gesserit secretary, one bound to him by love. Yueh dismisses that, knowing the Duke’s love for Jessica.
Jessica knows bloodshed is coming, that the Harkonnens hate the Atreides for two reasons; the Atreides line has royal blood while the Harkonnen name was bought, and an Atreides had a Harkonnen banished for cowardice after the Battle of Corrin. Yueh asks Jessica if she remembers her first taste of spice, and talks of how some believe that it creates a learned-flavor reaction, prompting the mind to interpret the taste as pleasurable. Jessica reckons that their family should have gone renegade and fled beyond the Emperor’s reach. Yueh wonders why she hasn’t used her powers on the Duke, and asks why she never forced him to marry her. Jessica is surprised by the question, but admits that the Duke being unmarried allows for an alliance with another of the Great Houses. She also tells him that forcing people to do your bidding makes you cynical. Yueh almost confesses his role in the Harkonnen scheme, but Jessica prevents it by going off on a rant about how the Duke is two different men—one whom she loves, another who is cold and cruel like his father. She decides to go looking through the south wing to assign quarters, thinking that Yueh was clearly hiding something, but that she shouldn’t press and put more trust in friends.
Commentary
This conversation with Jessica and Yueh is dramatic irony at its most wince-worthy. They have known each other for years and decide to be a bit familiar in this shared moment of trepidation; Jessica is trying to put more trust her her friends, while Yueh is feeling extended guilt over lying to her in that precise moment of trust and familiarity. It’s worse for learning that we don’t even know if Yueh’s wife is still alive at the hands of the Harkonnen, and that he feels a special kinship toward Jessica in this moment because his wife was also a Bene Gesserit.
The point about the palm trees is excellent commentary on how extravagant displays of wealth are extra specially demoralizing to those who have nothing. Jessica figures that the plants give hope to the local population, but the wastefulness that water is probably still rude-seeming to the people to dwell in the cities, and must be deeply offensive to the Fremen. (I feel the same way whenever I think about how much water Las Vegas wastes in the middle of a desert, and I don’t even live there.)
Jessica goes to look in on Paul, and I have a weird moment where I recognize those features—another boy with dark black hair and bright green eyes—
—oh my god, are you serious, Paul Atreides and Harry Potter have the same coloring, what is my life again, how did I do this to myself, heeeeeelllp….
Mind you, this is hardly surprising. Dark hair and bright eyes are a very common color combo in fiction (think how many superheroes have black hair and blue eyes in comics: Tony Stark, Bruce Wayne, Clark Kent, practically every Robin, etc….). For one, it looks striking. For another, since blue and green eyes are less common and dark hair is pretty common, you’re combining traits that are usual and unusual. Your hero blends traits that make them at once average and noticeable.
I’m still gonna stomp my feet over doing two rereads in succession with a main character who essentially looks exactly the same, though.
Jessica makes a comment that she believes perhaps Leto chose her (or a Bene Gesserit concubine in general) because it was a good idea to have a “secretary” who also loved him, and while Yueh tells her that’s not a worthy thought because the Duke clearly loves her… I’m pretty sure she’s right. Leto being in love with her does not prevent that from being his reasoning behind taking a Bene Gesserit as his primary companion. And what she says is true—she has no chance of looking the other way in this madness because she is deeply involved with all of the Duke’s affairs. She is expected to do a great deal of work in this relationship, not sit back and get pampered because she is part of the Atreides household.
We get some background on the fight between the Atreides and Harkonnen families and discover two facets to this hatred; on the one hand, someone in the Atreides family got a Harkonnen charged with cowardice during an old battle. On the other, we have a classic “old money” vs “new money” fight—the Harkonnens are pissed that the Atreides are related to royal blood when their own fancy titles were essentially bought. So it’s about power, certainly, but pride has a great deal to do with it as well. Importantly, this feud is really, really old. The Battle of Corrin, according to the Dune Encyclopedia, is the battle from which the Emperor’s house Corrino gets its name. This was the battle that saw them rise to the Imperial position, and it took place about 10,000 years ago. Apparently, the ship commanded by Bashar Abulurd Harkonnen fled the battle. Gunnery officer Demetrios Atreides took command of the Lu-ta and led a surprise attack that turned the tide of the fight, dying in the process. After the fallout, House Harkonnen was striped of its titles and honor.
Again, this feud is ten millennia old. So. The Harkonnens really love their grudges.
Jessica admits to Yueh that she feels that Leto is two people; one is the man that she loves, another is the man shaped by his father, who is callous and cruel. This is a clue, of course, in its own way. The temperament of this man made its mark on Leto, and therefore must make its mark on Paul as well. Her reservations about the old duke’s memory is a warning of sorts—what of his personality has imprinted on his grandson, and how will that affect they destiny?
Yueh’s question about why Jessica has not forced Leto to marry is one of the first places where we encounter another theme of the series, which centers around what constitutes true free will. Paul will have to deal with this in greater depth when he ends up on the Golden Path and is constantly burdened by knowledge of the future. In Jessica’s case, it’s the knowledge that forcing people to do anything just because she has the ability robs actions of their meaning. She wants Leto to marry her, but if it isn’t his choice, then it counts for nothing.
* * *
Many have marked the speed with which Muad’Dib learned the necessities of Arrakis. The Bene Gesserit, of course, know the basis of this speed. For the other, we can say that Muad’Dib learned rapidly because his first training was in how to learn. And the first lesson of all was the basic trust that he could learn. It is shocking to find how many people do not believe they can learn, and how many more believe learning to be difficult. Muad’Dib knew that every experience carries its lessons.
—from “The Humanity of Muad’Dib” by the Princess Irulan
Summary
During Jessica and Yueh’s conversation, Paul was only pretending to be asleep (he palmed the sedative Yueh tried to give him). There are strange controls and false doors all around, elements that intrigue him the same way that the planet does. The filmbook Yueh gave him on Arrakis came from before the discovery of spice, detailing plants and animals. Paul decides that he should slip out through a bookcase and go exploring. Once he stands and moves to the door, he sees the headboard of the bed fold down and freezes. A hunter-seeker emerges, a common assassination tool. A shield would have slowed it, but Paul isn’t wearing his. The only thing he has is immobility, as the person operating the hunter-seeker would rely on his movement to locate him.
Paul thinks of calling for Yueh, but knows that the thing will kill him the instant he comes to the door. There is a knock and the door opens, and as the hunter-seeker streaks past Paul to the newest target, he shoots out his hand, grabs the thing in midair, and slams it against the wall. Mapes enters the room, telling Paul that the Duke is waiting for him with Hawat’s men. She asks why he didn’t let the hunter-seeker kill her, and notes the debt she owes him. To help settle it, she tells him that there is traitor in their midst, though she does not know who it is. Paul takes up his shield belt and goes to find his mother where Mapes told him she had gone—the weirding room.
Commentary
This opening paragraph. I love it so. This philosophy about learning is something that should be carved into plaques and hung over the doors of classrooms everywhere. It would help so many people. Because the greatest feat of school is truly to teach you “how” to learn, not what. If schools prioritized teaching students how to learn, how to think critically, then those skills would be with them for life, applicable to literally every situation. And it is also true that one of the greatest enemies to learning is the belief that learning is difficult, and that certain individuals are less adept at it than others. The number of people I know who have been held back by precisely this thought is staggering. And so we learn that our hero’s greatest strength is one that any person could achieve—he knows he can learn, that learning is not difficult, and he has been taught how to learn. These are the only tools he needs.
That is the greatest attribute I can think of to give your central character.
Of course, this short section is primarily about Paul thinking of getting up to a little mischief by wandering off, then getting cut off by an assassination attempt. It’s frightening, of course, but knowing that it’s so common is also interesting. Paul has known about hunter-seekers since he was a small child because they’re apparently so often used. Between this and the earlier mention of poison snoopers for their food, we know that people with this level of power are constantly wary about death threats. We already know that this attempt is meant to fail, and fail it does, but with the added benefit (for a definition of benefit) of getting Mapes to tell Paul of the traitor in their midst.
Paul adds Mapes to his “mnemonic memory,” which sounds vaguely similar to the idea of a “mind palace” or other memorization devices created for maximum retention. Paul leaves—remembering his shield belt this time—to find his mother, all thought of exploration gone. Almost getting murdered will do that, I guess.
Here is your latest audiobook snippet! Jessica and Leto are having a very polite sort of row…
Emmet Asher-Perrin wonders what it would be like to hold a grudge for 10000 years. You can bug her on Twitter and Tumblr, and read more of her work here and elsewhere.
The opening quote makes me think of graduate school and my time there; I didn’t choose to complete my degree but I’m still thankful for it as the general mindset has helped me in my current job (where I troubleshoot and identify causes and fixes of problems in complex systems).
Good to see this reread resuming. Thanks!
Is it too early to ask: “what’s the best scene in the book”? Anyway, I nominate the conversation between Jessica and Yueh. Jessica is able to talk to Yueh as she can talk to no-one else, even as he betrays her and her family, aware of the friendship that he could have had with her… Herbert writes it superbly.
The Harry Potter connection invites a mashup… with a villain referred to as “he who cannot be weighed”…
I think it’s a bit premature to assume that the Bene Gesserit accounts are the truth. As later quotations demonstrate, the BGs think they understand more than they do, and were completely unaware of some very important factors.
If you’re going to seed the universe with religious myths, it’s probably a good idea to NOT do so to a planet full of latent precogs, for example.
The fact that this question sounds reasonable to them both makes me wonder why anyone in the Dune universe ever trusts any Bene Gesserit under any circumstances ever.
Presumably for the same reason that anyone other than the imperial family is allowed to control a planert as essential as Arrakis – Frank Herberts story requires it.
@@.-@, I’ve had the same thought about the Jedi in Star Wars. If a group is known to have “mind control” powers that they are willing to use, it destroys the ability to trust them with anything. That was one thing Robert Jordan got absolutely right in the Wheel of Time. Compulsion in that series was seen as a complete violation and something only an evil person would do. The Jedi do this and are portrayed as heroes. The Gene Gesserit do it, but they’re kind of a-holes, so we don’t really think any worse of them than we already do.
@5, “Gene Gesserit” is as good a typo as I’ve seen this year.
I have to both agree and disagree with you on the subject of learning. Yes, learning how to learn is critically important and teaching that skill needs to be at the core of all education. What I somewhat disagree with is this:
Some people are better at learning than others, and it’s not just because they believe in themselves. To put it another way, knowing that you can learn is necessary but not sufficient for learning. I agree that everyone CAN learn, but some people are much faster than others when it comes to acquiring knowledge. That doesn’t make them better or smarter than anyone else, but they do have an easier time of it. (Retention is a somewhat related but different issue, as is the ability to use said knowledge.) Likewise, some people struggle to learn, even when they know they can. I come from a family of teachers and I’m married to a teacher. I know a bit about how much work it takes to be a good teacher (and I know that I don’t have nearly enough patience for it myself). One of the biggest challenges of teaching is being able to work with the entire spectrum of learning ability. Denying that these differences exist does no favors to those who find learning more challenging.
If I study a physics degree, what do I learn that would help me later learn tapdancing or Swahili? If I study ancient Persian poetry, what do I learn that would help me learn to fix a car or conduct open-heart surgery? Certainly not a class on learning-how-to-learn. In my experience, there never is one. Learning about subject X helps with learning related subject similar-to-X, it does not help with learning unrelated subject A.
FWIW, I gather the best suggestion is to have yourself quizzed on a subject when it is half-forgotten:What if everything you knew about education was wrong?
#7 – Part of knowing how to learn is knowing tactics for your own learning needs… I have a friend I used to work with who, if you talk him through something while walking, he retains it better because his physical restlessness was being exorcised (pun intended). The moral of that anecdote is that few people are strictly “better” at learning, but that differing neurotypes may need different methods, and the barrier many people have is never being exposed to those options or having them supported.
@6, Agreed. I’m not even changing it :)
#9 @Kris Browne – You’re right that there are definitely differences in how people learn best. Some people are better visual learners; they retain what they read. Others do better when they hear something explained verbally. Some learn kinesthetically. (My wife has mentioned other learning styles; these are just a couple examples.) For most students it’s a combination of the various methods. The differences are important, but they’re also distinct from the overall ability to learn. Just finding the best way for each individual student in a class to learn doesn’t mean they will all learn at the same rate. One person who is a visual learner may need to be exposed to new information 20 times to fully learn it, while another visual learner might only need to read the same information four or five times. Ditto for any other learning style.
That our school system is deeply flawed is no surprise to anyone, but it is protected by people, nobody likes change, remember how the school lunch personnel were adamantly opposed to the new school lunch regime, it just happens in every position, so I am not even blaming teachers, it’s human nature. Overcoming that appears to be a special talent.
In any case, the fact we have all known teachers and liked most of them, so don’t really want to poop on them too hard has kept our schools in their century old system. One of the many reasons I chose not to have kids (I know you can home school them, one of the other reasons, I chose not to have kids lol).
On another note, the Missionary Protectiva are one of my favourite ideas in fiction, imagining how courageous they must have been to head into unknown cultures and seed ideas that would last thousands of years. Very, very cool.
You’re a Kwisatz, Harry.
The excellent quote regarding the philosophy of learning reminds me that Dune was the first fictional tale I recall reading that contained such thought-provoking elements—along with others like ecology, messianic movements, a realist/cynical take on political maneuverings, and a host of others I’m looking forward to rediscovering during this reread—woven mostly seamlessly into the plot and world building. At least my 15-year-old self thought so!
@4/ad: Jessica’s explanation (rationalization?) of why she didn’t manipulate Leto illustrates why the Bene Gesserit can still be considered trustworthy: they are a group of individuals of whom each makes choices based on her own situation and conscience. In this regard they really aren’t any more or less trustworthy (or secretive about their goals and machinations) than any of the other groups vying for power in this universe. Moreover, the success of the BG plan depends immensely on their ability to stay close enough to the Emperor and Great Houses to allow them to bargain, cajole, and nudge selected people into the ‘proper’ unions, so it behooves the BG to be viewed as reliable supporters and confidants; if the BG are ever seen to manipulate/betray too openly or too frequently, a House could cut off access…or probably muster the forces necessary to lay waste to Wallach IX and other BG training centers.
On the subject of learning, I’m learning a lot from this. Including how to pull a piece of literature apart. I needed to have something familiar to me (I’ve been reading Dune since a yr or 2 before the first movie hit the screen). I’m going to buy the ebook, so I don’t wreck my hardcover flipping back and forth.
I teach (but no, I don’t teach literature), so I am apt to learn while on a subject I love.
I had thought Leto’s insistence on hanging his father’s slayer to be a means of reminding him of his own mortality. That those things which he treasure can turn or be turned against him. In that way, it sounds like an Atreides thing to do. On the other hand, I’m no longer sure if I picked this up myself or if I picked it up from the ‘cough’ prequels ‘cough’.
Bene Gesserits are highly prized in spite of their suspicious machinations. We see this suspicion all over the series. People call them witches. A lot. Nevertheless many of the Great Houses welcome their acolytes because of the benefits. Bene Gesserits can be truthsayers, as well as sort of mentat-lites because of their education. Their education make them capable administrators and scholars. There’s also the possibility that the Bene Gesserit in question might be enamored enough to impart some of their skills to the Great House’s scions. Paul himself is a product of this mental and physical education. We learn later that Irulan herself is being tutored by a Bene Gesserit. And when Jessica had to seek refuge on Salusa Secundus her bargaining chip was her intent to train Farad’n.
The mullah Nasrudin took a student to get some water. He poured the water into the bottle but it ran out the bottom. The student pointed this out to him, but he said, “I am looking at the top of the bottle, not the bottom. I am waiting for the water to rise to the top!” The student went home and thought very, very deeply. A day later he came to the mullah Nasrudin and asked, very humbly, “Teach me how to learn.”
About the voice: Its stated in one of franks books that the BG are aware that it’s control is an unnatural condition, and eventually humans will adapt to resist it. For that reason they are under stick orders to almost never use it. Hopefully delaying the time it takes human beings to become immune.
@15 A trustworthy person with mind-controlling superpowers is not trustworthy just because she MIGHT not choose to use them against you. She is trustworthy only if she CERTAINLY will not use them against you. So if she is not horrified by the very idea, she is not trustworthy. (Analogously, a bodyguard who is not horrified by the idea of shooting the person he is meant to guard is not a trustworthy bodyguard.)
Another issue with trust: will your Bene Gesserit wife train her children in the superpowers she was taught by her order? If not, she clearly puts loyalty to her order before loyalty to her own children, let alone their father. So if she won’t train her children you can’t trust her and must get rid of her at once.
So either the Bene Gesserit adepts can train their own children, in which case their order loses its superpower monopoly to the Great Houses, or they all refuse, and everyone in the Duneiverse knows they are absolutely not to be trusted and they must be destroyed, driven off, or fled from. Then the Bene Gesserit must conquer or die.
There is no stable state in which mind-control is a monopoly of anyone but the rulers.
That ten thousand years makes no sense at all. Many American writers (such as George R R Martin in Game of Thrones) add drama to their fantasies by making them part of millennia of history, but it always rings false to this European. In this case, if the Imperial Corrino dynasty is ten thousand years old, what is this Old Empire Jessica mentions, who imported wooden beams to Arrakis? The beams would have disappeared long since. I can’t take the encyclopedia seriously on this, and will continue to think of the battle of Corrin as no more than a hundred or hundred fifty years ago (like the American Civil War today) and House Corrino as lasting about as long as the Tudors, Stuarts, or Hanovers.
Bujold is unusual in getting these historical timescales right in their feel, in Barrayar and Chalion. She has the important events no more than a few generations ago.
Some bodyguards must be able to kill their guardees if they are to be trusted at all. I’m thinking of Gregor Vorbarra. I’m even more thinking of G’Kar, and the promise made to him that if he ever started to believe in his own divinity, he would be killed.
I’m also thinking of Baron Ryoval. He had utterly trustworthy bodyguards.
@20: “There is no stable state in which mind-control is a monopoly of anyone but the rulers.”
That’s self-definingly true in the very general sense where “mind control” means being able to make anyone do anything you want with no limits and no signs of what you’re doing. But I don’t think Herbert is too interested in that general premise; a pretty big part of these books is about specific systems of control, what their limits are, and to what degree people in authority can deal with other people having access to them. In the case of Voice, he sets up a lot of rules that I think are meant to address what you’re getting at:
– It has to be used one-on-one, preferably on someone you’ve had a chance to study at length.
– It only has a short-term effect; if you want to keep influencing someone over time, you have to keep hanging out with them.
– People can be trained to resist Voice, and to recognize when you’re using it on someone else. People in positions of authority usually have that training; if they need to make sure their less skilled employees are immune, they can hire deaf people. For everyone else, it doesn’t really matter because there’s no democracy and no one is considered trustworthy anyway.
– There are already weapons in this universe that would give a huge advantage to anyone who used them, but are taboo because they’d be so disruptive, so no one dares to go there unless they’re absolutely sure they won’t get caught. Voice is subtler than those, but carries a pretty big risk of getting caught and bringing down massive retaliation
You could still argue that the rulers are foolish to trust that what they think they know about Voice is 100% correct, but then you’re arguing about hypotheticals in a fictional universe– it’s not as if we have real examples to show that this couldn’t possibly work as Herbert says. (I think he does at least want you to question their assumptions, though…since in Yueh he gives an example of a different system of control that’s supposed to be foolproof and well understood, and it isn’t.)
That ten thousand years makes no sense at all. Many American writers (such as George R R Martin in Game of Thrones) add drama to their fantasies by making them part of millennia of history, but it always rings false to this European…
The timelines not making sense in Westeros is actually part of the story (The Iron Islands being called that before the Andals actually bought iron to Westeros, knights in the Age of heroes thousands of years before Westeros had knights, the House having unbroken lineages going back 10000 years, the number of Watch Commanders mot matching the 10000 year time frame…Samwell Tarley even calls it out in both the book and tv show
I think you’re misreading the first Jessica section on a couple of key levels. First, Irulan says that Jessica’s latent powers were underestimated, not her ability to adapt to situations or manipulate people (indeed, skills that are expected of any Bene Gesserit). As we see from Yueh, there are gradients of power in the Bene Gesserit, and Jessica doesn’t rank very high; not a full Truthsayer, not a Reverend Mother (and it’s a pretty safe bet that she was not thought able to survive the spice agony, hence why they sold her off in the first place). But by the end of the book, Jessica does all those things and is powerful enough to brush aside commands from Reverend Mother Helen Mohaim. The Bene Gesserit did not see Jessica for what she really was, and “the Bene Gesserit did not see an Atreides clearly” is going to be somewhat of a theme in this book.
Second, “this suggests that the order greatly downplays their political motivations, and largely bill these abilities as tools for the purchaser to use to their own benefit” — that is a massive understatement. Remember that when Mohaim hints at a hidden motive for the Bene Gesserit and Paul immediately answers with “politics”, she is shocked as hell that he figured that out and comments that he did it on “remarkably few clues”. The Bene Gesserit do not present themselves as a political force at all. Their political motivations are a secret. In all likelihood, what they’re selling is beautiful women guaranteed to be devoted to you and also they have a few cool parlor trick superpowers. Remember also that Thufir Hawat has no goddamn idea what Jessica can really do (and that Jessica is mediocre at best by Bene Gesserit standards), and he’s a frigging Mentat. Jessica even tells him that almost nobody who gets a glimpse of the true Bene Gesserit are allowed to live; all you’re supposed to see is the velvet glove, not the iron fist.
Thirdly, you’re making a mistake in dismissing all the myths, legends, and prophecies. Saying “we know not to take these legends at face value” makes the same mistake that the Bene Gesserit do, as laid out quite clearly in one of the Appendices; it trivializes them and blinds you to the fact that Jessica and Paul are very much the real deal. Jessica has just done it for the first time, but before this book is over, both she and Paul are going to be marching around displaying astounding powers and fufilling prophecies left and right, practically marching through the streets with a giant neon sign reading CHOSEN ONE AND DIVINE MOTHER HERE, NICE GALAXY, WE’LL TAKE IT. And how do the Bene Gesserit miss it? Because — and again, the Appendix states this flat out — they got so used to myths being pre-seeded lies to be cynically manipulated that they couldn’t see the actual Messiah right in front of them. It won’t end well for them, and it’s not a mistake a careful reader should repeat.
@20/ad: What @23/Eli_Bishop and @25/CapnAndy said! In addition, remember that Jessica’s actions and behaviors, over 15+ years, give Leto absolutely no reason to believe that she is anything but supportive of his and Paul’s interests at this point in the story. There is really no basis in the text for any of the characters (well, members of the Great Houses at least) to believe that courtesans, concubines, and wives who received Bene Gesserit training would be any less trustworthy than other women. And it is ironic to associate certainty with trust in a discussion about the BG, seeing as their mistaken certainty in their ability to recognize and control the Kwisatz Haderach whom they trusted to be the result of their breeding program is such a major plot point.
@26. Yueh, who is not one of the sisterhood, assumes that Jessica can mind-control her partner, at least to the point of commanding marriage. Jessica is not especially surprised that he thinks this, so this power can hardly be a great secret.
The Great Houses may have no reason to believe that Bene Gesserit with mind-controlling superpowers are more dangerous than anybody else with similar powers. But since any such person would be very, very dangerous to be around, they still have reason to believe that individual Bene Gesserit are very, very dangerous to be around. That is hardly a desireable quality in a spouse.
In any event, these spouses clearly do not teach their own sons these skills, even though they are obviously valuable. If they did, the sisterhood would not have been able to maintain a generations-long monopoly of them. And this lack of family loyalty to their own children is an excellent reason to distrust them.
I don’t think it’s at all clear that Jessica is ‘mediocre at best’. I do think the BG didn’t perceive her as anything unusual, partly because they were only concerned with bloodline manipulation and the degree to which she could serve as a tool in service of that, partly because they knew who her father was. The BG may recognize the Harkonnens as humans, but understand the degree to which their twisting and warping limits them.
But in any case, they didn’t fully test Jessica because she was never intended to become a Reverend Mother. Her entire purpose was to combine the Atreides and Harkonnen bloodlines, and she was evaluated only in the ways that would reveal whether she was suitable for that task.
I don’t know what traits the BG monitor, but I do wonder what qualities their ‘harvester’ women have. Logically we’d expect them to carry neutral recessives for any traits the BG are interested in, to make it easier to spot successful captures in their children, and in the case of sought-after recessives, grandchildren.
@27: It’s clear Jessica knows that Yueh was married to a BG, and that he gained some understanding of what they were capable of. It’s also pretty clear that although wider society has its suspicions, there’s little confirmed knowledge about what the BG can do.
If you are at all interested in the Duniverse, the Dune Encyclopedia is a must read, certainly better than the Briabomination prequels
I’m enjoying this re-read of one of my favorite books and actually the slower pace allows me to see things in more detail, however, the commentaries show a remarkable lack of knowledge about both the world of the book and the world in which the author wrote the book itself. Regarding the latter, Herbert wrote this from the world and culture of the early 60s, published in 1965. Yes, the world was very different then. 1967 to 2016 didn’t exist yet for this author. You are putting your current day point of view and values onto different times and it isn’t fair to the book or reading experience. For example, even though the Bene Gesserit are all female, the values Herbert — perhaps unconsciously — gives this world is that of what was the norm in the 1960s. You can’t judge it from today.
Along those lines, though set in a different world, much of the world building is that of feudal Europe and some of the Roman Empire. Knowing how those societies functioned gives you a better understanding of the relationships, politics, and power struggles.
Could you be more specific? What did you think Emily or the other commentators got wrong? Feel free to write your own essay, right here, expounding on the points you think have been skipped or misread. That would be a lot more constructive — and interesting! — than just Trumping “Wrong.”
I think we can look at the BG from an outsiders perspective and see that they’re essential to the ruling class despite the dangers their powers represent. They are running a flipping galactic empire without the use of computers or instantaneous communications over interstellar distances. The cynical view would be a super computer you can have sex with. The BG’s encourage this view, actively downplaying their extraordinary talents to appear as non-threatening to those they serve as possible so that they can stay in place to pursue their agenda.
@33/EvilMonkey: I think you are conflating the BG with Mentats a bit, but your essential point is correct, that the Great Houses are deliberately making risk-vs.-reward calculations (and have been doing so, more or less successfully, for many generations).
The outsider perspective you mention is a key point. If the ruling class knew as much about the BG as the reader does, then yes they probably should try to keep their distance. At the same time, if the BG knew as much about the universe and their own limitations/errors as the reader does, they should be less bold in trying to manipulate affairs towards ends they may not be able to control. So, we’ve got two of the story’s major contenders making choices they believe to be in their best interests but probably aren’t…hmm, one might almost start to believe that perhaps Herbert was setting up multiple facets of dramatic irony for literary effect…
Re: The Bene Gesserit…computers and “thinking machines” have been banned, as have atomics…therefore the product of the great schools (BGs, Mentats, Swordmasters, etc.) have come to take their place literally and metaphorically. Yes, each of them is exceedingly dangerous and, on the whole, maybe it would be better if no one had them. But since they exist, *everyone* wants their own comparable nukes in their arsenal.
@31 – Sorry, that argument of “you cannot place modern day values on a story that was not written in modern times otherwise you’re doing it wrong” is patently false. There are many different ways to react to a story. Taking into account the time in which it was written allows for certain types of analysis. Dissecting it as it comes off today is a different type of analysis, and is valid in its own manner. Choosing to go over it one way or another is not “wrong.” It’s simply a decision. In fact, those different types of readings have names: you can analyze for “author intent,” and “historical context,” and also “reader response,” and “modern day parallels” and much more besides. You can go over the text any way you like–you cannot tell me that I have to do it according to your preferred method because you’ve decided that it’s the only way it should be done.
Also, the suggestion that I know nothing about feudal Europe or the Roman Empire because I haven’t invoked them yet as a storytelling device is presumptuous as all get out. I am well aware of the devices and histories that Herbert is drawing on, but we haven’t reached a point in the narrative where the parallels are doing much of anything besides existing. Once we get to a point where they’re more direct or poignant, they will get discussed.
Yea you are ahead of me now. I can read dune on my flight to DC on Wednesday then come back and read this. YEA! Will read and post then1
I wonder if the point the commenter was trying to make about the difference in 1967 vs. 2016 is something like this: In 1967, the notion that women could not be powerful simply because they were women was second nature to a large majority of the population. Thus, someone writing in 1967 *might* have seen no reason why the Bene Gesserits would be untrustworthy because, as women, they were not the equal of men and therefore could never be powerful or thwart the goals of men.
Or I may be missing the person’s point entirely.
On an entirely new tangent, whatever other flaws the 1980s Dune movie may have had, it cemented in my mind forever the image of Francesa Annis as Jessica.
According to the appendices, the “unfixed” crysknives require the body’s electrical field to maintain cohesion long-term. They can also be “fixed” to go in storage.
Even if Paul Atreides looks like Harry Potter early on, he certainly doesn’t later on. His eyes go Fremen-blue, for one.
Expected but still sad that the rereader here buts so much emphasis on the missoriana protectiva. As we see later yes it helped but many things happened and were said that didn’t come from the missoriana or were about it. Something else is moving here. What exactly and if it is good or bad is complicated and never REALLY answered in this book. But there IS something else. As I reread this I am noticing much more that things are very grey and conflicted. Maybe that is what made the other books less successful to me. It got rid of the grey and the confliction. But saying that this book proves that Paul was bad and what he caused was bad seems very over simplified. I also continue to skim through the “Frank Herbert was a sexist” sections … sigh. It always amazes me how the definitions of these things change over time. I mean the idea that someone who put such extremely powerful women in his stories could be sexist … ridiculous.