So, was it worth the wait?
HBO’s Game of Thrones returned for its seventh—and, in proper epic fantasy terminology, its penultimate—season where it left off, i.e. with lots of fans saying “OH MY GOD FINALLY!!!!” After the rare cold open, Game of Thrones‘ first volley was more of a quiet breath to recollect and reflect after the explosive episode that preceded it. Over a year ago.
But the episode’s last few moments proved that silence has its own power, as careful machinations led to a moment fans of the TV show and the books alike have been waiting years to see come home to roost. To roost and to wage war.
Spoilers for the currently published George R. R. Martin novels are discussed in the review and fair game in the comments. We highly suggest not discussing early preview chapters, but if you must, white it out. Have courtesy for the patient among us who are waiting and waiting (and waiting) for The Winds of Winter. Play nice. Thanks.
So long, Walder Frey. For real this time. David Bradley did a great job playing Arya playing Walder. So many little tells that were plausible for Walder’s relatives to miss because, well, Freys just aren’t that smart. I’m getting ready for a whole season of Arya going around Westeros making bitter fans’ dreams come true.
I was surprised, however, that Arya was heading south to kill the Queen instead of, you know, checking in on her family at Winterfell. Where is Arya in time? Does she know about Jon and Sansa back at Winterfell? Surely the Freys were talking about it. Why not swing by home first? Yet, her meeting that band of Lannister soldiers seemed to humanize her enemy a bit. I mean, they didn’t rape or imprison her or anything! They shared food and blackberry wine and a laugh with her. As soon as that guy said “be kind to strangers and they’ll be kind to you,” I was definitely expecting all of those kind soldiers to be horribly murdered by Arya instead. There isn’t a gleeful satisfaction in Arya being the most dangerous girl in the forest; it’s a grim reminder of what Arya’s lost during her journey. Arya’s dangerous obsession with her hit list may prove to be her undoing, as much as Cersei’s quest for vengeance will be her undoing.
The Hound will tell you that.
This new, improved Hound is so compelling. Here’s a man who has seen so much death, been the cause of so much death, nearly died himself, and returned from the brink and gave faith and goodness a fair trial and… it didn’t work for him. But he was already shaken before Thoros asked him to look into the flames. Was there some divine purpose that brought Sandor back to the home of the farmer and his daughter that he robbed in the fifth season? He clearly felt a measure of remorse that he was so correct when he told Arya that they wouldn’t survive the winter. Sometimes being right feels shitty. But, now that the Hound has seen the White Walkers in the flame, how can he deny the Lord of Light? How can he not, in part, think that, like Beren, he’s nobody special, and yet not feel like his life was spared for a purpose? He was literally kissed by fire. (Ygritte’s way was prettier.)
Here’s to hoping Sandor’s purpose and the rumored Clegane Bowl clash in an epic, gory, over-the-top way. But I’m most anticipating when he’ll meet Arya along his path. I think she’ll need to see the Hound, too, to see how even he, one of the best killers she’s known, can change, be defeated, and re-purpose his life around not killing.
Mentors seemed to hover around the periphery of the plot tonight.
There was some nice mirroring going on, with Sansa saying she learned a lot about politics from Cersei and, later, Cersei saying she learned about politics from her father. Both women were paying attention to the people who stood in their paths, differing paths though they walked. Both women suffered under misogyny that hemmed them in, killed cruel husbands, and saw their naive pretty princess dreams dashed horribly. And they see enemies everywhere.
I only hope Sansa has taken what she needed from Littlefinger so he can, I dunno, twirl his mustache as he’s being pushed into the Narrow Sea on an ice floe. Fuck that guy. And I’m pissed at Jon and Sansa, too. I was kind of on Sansa’s side in the sentence for the Karstarks’ and Umbers’ wartime deeds. Jon, do you know nothing? Committing treason is usually a pretty serious crime that would get you stripped of your titles. But not every ruler agrees. Ahem.
But, then, Jon was being fair not to punish the traitors’ children and focus on the bigger picture. I just don’t want a whole season of Stark vs. Stark. But I guess I don’t come to watch Game of Thrones to see everyone picking daisies together. It’s just frustrating because anything that makes Littlefinger happy is so bad for everyone else. Sansa is a stone-cold ice princess when she wants to be and is directing it towards the right person, at least. But to what end? I don’t believe she wants the Iron Throne. She just wants Cersei dead and, I’d guess, her name cleared. Is family enough?
Cersei’s pretty much the Mad Queen, no? Losing all of her children gives her nothing to fight for beyond glory. So empty. Jaime looked broken when Cersei said Tommen’s suicide was a betrayal. Surely Sansa and Littlefinger can guess how penned in Cersei is, so desperate for an ally, she’d even turn to (*shudder*) Euron Greyjoy and his one thousand really freaking baroque kraken ships. Seven Hells, what a boring character. Maybe I’m still bitter that Mads Mikkelsen can’t take every role I think he’d be perfect for. But Euron is just lame. And vague. What’s his “priceless” gift for Cersei, i.e. that back-up queen he was going to marry? A horn, perhaps?
Dany’s dragons are safe and at home for now. Their real home. Dragonstone.
I loved how even Tyrion had no words for this incredibly important moment. It was wise to just… let Dany have her moment. I think, if you saw the super-long “Previously on” segment, you were reminded of Dany’s vicious brother and you had to believe she was thinking of him when she walked up to that throne.
Final Thoughts:
- “You think you’re fooling anyone with that top-knot?” Sandor says: fuck your man buns, hipsters.
- So, it seems that at least in King’s Landing, no one cares overmuch about the explosion that took out a zillion cast members and extras last season? Maybe we’ll get a hint of what they thought about all of that in Flea Bottom in a later episode. But pressing question #1: with Margaery and Tommen gone, who will take care of Ser Pounce?! Will anyone please think of Ser Pounce?! I like to imagine that he’s hunting around the Red Keep with Rhaenys Targaryen’s old kitty…
- Poor Pod, caught between Tormund and Brienne’s awkward courting dance!
- I don’t hate that Ed Sheeran fellow. I think tonight was the first time I heard him sing and his voice was beautiful.
- Lady Lyanna Mormont did NOT refuse the call and Bear Island is a progressive one. By arming her womenfolk, her ranks likely swelled to 124! If they all fight like her, the Night King is doomed. I love her so much. Please don’t die.
- Requiem for Sam’s Dream: A new film by Darren Aronofsky. That was a lot of jump-cuts to chamber pots. I’ll never eat lentil soup again. Jim Broadbent (Professor Slughorn!) made a nice, quiet debut in the Citadel tonight. My, his words about the maesters being “the memory” of mankind through all of the other times that felt like the end times was strangely comforting. Also, look at how far Sam has come—he broke a rule! He is in the Citadel to become a Maester, but his #1 priority is Jon’s true mission. How soon will Jon head down to Dragonstone to ask Dany for some dragonglass?
- Next week: it seems as if Dany’s reclaiming of her ancestral home didn’t go unnoticed by all of the other rulers in Westeros.
Game of Thrones airs Sunday nights at 9PM E/PT on HBO.
Theresa DeLucci is a regular contributor to Tor.com covering TV, book reviews and sometimes games. She’s also gotten enthusiastic about television for Boing Boing, Wired.com’s Geek’s Guide to the Galaxy podcast and Den of Geek. Reach her via raven or on Twitter.
Sure did feel like another big shortcut having Arya take out ALL the Freys instead of her mom doing it one by one.
I’ll admit, I had about half a scene of WTF for the cold open. But when I figured out what was going on, I laughed giddily.
I was a little worried about what Arya would do with the soldiers, as she was clearly sizing up the entire troop. But it was nice to see humanity win out, and hear her laugh with enemies (even if the Lannister soldiers didn’t realize she was an enemy). I also look forward to Arya’s eventual meetup with The Hound, although they’re going opposite directions at the moment, so that may be a while coming. And I look forward to seeing an arrowhead-shaped mountain beyond The Wall at some point later in the season.
Cersei’s discussion with Jaime had a hint of “Stuck in the Middle with You” to it. Enemies to the East. Enemies to the South. Enemies to the West. Enemies to the North. I had a chuckle at Jaime’s “Three Kingdoms” quip. The imagery of the Iron Fleet sailing into Blackwater was magnificent. And while Euron was mostly a “meh” quantity for me last season, he was great in his scene here. Subtle, and not so subtle, jabs at Jaime. Staring down The Mountain. And promising Cersei a gift (my guess is a dragon, though I could be convinced he’s referring to Tyrion).
Sam’s grind made me chuckle, when it didn’t make me want to hurl. I have to think the similarity between the soup and the contents of the bedpans was intentional on the part of TPTB. Definitely not appetizing. Though I was surprised at how composed he was during the conversation with the Archmaester. Now *that* would make me want to vomit. Nice to see the little sneaking around, although I wonder whether Sam’s aware of the changes in the North since he left. The Citadel was far enough behind when he got there that they didn’t even know Mormont had died, let alone the changes since then. And I assume that this isn’t the last we’ll see of Jorah.
I know many may disagree, but I think Jon made the right call with regards to the Karstarks and the Umbers. I could be wrong, but Sansa aside, it seemed as though he had the room on his side for that decision. As always, I can never get enough Lyanna Mormont, and her shaming the other houses of the North into the right decisions. I had another out loud chuckle (I’m watching in a sleeping house, so as a general rule, my volume levels have to be kept down, both on the TV, and my reactions) at Tormund’s “You’re a lucky man” to Pod, and Brienne’s continued bewilderment at the attentions.
Is it just me, or did we (the viewers) last see the Night’s King more in the vicinity of the Three-Eyed Raven’s cave, rather far to the west of Hardhome (not that Jon would realize that)? Or did he just send some of his army to that cave, and he’s still out East? Between Jon’s mentioning it in the great hall of Winterfell, and The Hound’s vision, I’m probably not going out on too much of a limb to guess that the Night King’s army will breach the Wall at Eastwatch.
Finally, I have to wonder if Dolorous Edd signed the Wall’s death sentence by letting Bran through. I said at the end of last season, I suspect that whatever magic between Bran and the Night’s King broke the spell on the Three-eyed Raven’s cave will also allow them through the Wall.
Sorry this was so long, but there’s a lot to discuss, especially considering the relative lack of action in the episode.
A good episode all around.
The Red Winetasting scene was very satisfying. I said to my wife, “That’s Arya,” as soon as I realized it was not a flashback. But I worry about Arya. Her surprise at the decency of the soldiers shows how disconnected she is from normal emotions (nice cameo by Ed Sheeran, that didn’t feel gratuitous). And her heading for revenge instead of family shows that she has lost her rudder.
The Hound scenes were very moving. One thing I like about GoT is how the characters grow and change, and those who we didn’t like at the beginning become favorites as we go on. Except for wee Lady Mormont, who should never, ever change.
In the interests of plausible military tactics, I wanted to see some signs of her soldiers in Dany’s castle as she entered, showing that they had secured it before letting their leader wander in. And such a major castle would not be abandoned, even if the Lord was killed, and troops defeated in battle. There would be older men, wives, children and serfs going about their normal business. Unless the stink of dark magic forced everyone to flee.
It was good to see Tormund’s love for Brienne burns undiminished by time.
The funniest scene, because it was too gross to do anything but laugh, was Sam and the Battle of the Chamberpots. And his discussion with the Grand Maester was a good commentary on the lack of connection that academia often has with the real world.
And I think poor Jamie has woken up and found himself in a hell worse than any nightmare he ever had…
I can’t believe they recast Walder Frey with a Woman. #NotmyWalderFrey
But seriously, it was a place setting episode, but the cold open and Sandor carried the episode well enough. Its great to be back in Westros, now everyone I love will die or betray each other… crap Im back in Westros.
Well, I’m pretty sure Sandor was right about that family not surviving the winter because he killed them.
I totally hadn’t “internalised” that “Arya could be anybody!” because when the episode started, my first thought was that it was some kind of flashback in time. In my defence, I managed to note that he seemed …unusually self-deprecating, though his “you’re such heroes” actually fit within the usual Walder Frey mean-spiritedness (and the “no good wine for a woman” was perfect, even if it served a different purpose). I totally did not realise until Arya pulled the face off!
“Nice” Lannister soldiers – I found myself thinking “please don’t kill them please don’t kill them”. Note that we don’t actually KNOW she didn’t kill them, by the way.
I don’t understand Euron’s needling of Jamie (“two hands!”). What purpose would it serve? Unless he was already aware that they had grown apart, this seemed counterproductive. After all, gossip and rumours would have held them to be … intimate.
I think all the speculation about Bran “breaking” the wall by entering it being overdone. If the wall was always going to be some kind of impenetrable magical barrier, then there’d be no need for the Night’s Watch to man it (though their job “lately” had been as a willing-suppression-force, when Bran the Builder put it up he had it manned from the beginning, no? It must have been necessary). This seems more along the lines of the “cycle of magic” becoming stronger again, where once again Dragons are born (remember, in the tail end of the Targaryen reign the dragons had shrunk smaller and smaller, to the size of “cats” before no longer hatching?), and the Red Priests/Priestesses were also noting that their power seemed to have grown.
Lyanna Mormont… this is a series that kills the people we grow to love. I am terrified that something terrible will happen to her eventually. Every time she does something awesome, my feeling of dread grows.
ahhhh, that should have read “wildling suppression force”.
separately, there’d been a lot of speculation that a red priest would cure Jorah Mormont. If he’s locked up by Maesters then that must be wrong?
I haven’t seen anybody comment on what may have been the most important moment when Arya met those soldiers. She didn’t want to accept their rabbit. Obviously she walked in planning to kill them, and she didn’t want to kill them after taking guest right. There is a world of difference to a Northerner–and Arya’s arc over the past 2-3 seasons was all about her refusing to give up her heritage–between killing in revenge for violating guest right and violating guest right yourself.
Put me down too in the “Jon was totally right” category.
The opening made me happy not just because I want Arya to kill them all, but because it showed that the series hasn’t lost its touch for great scenes. S5 was mostly a disappointment on that and other grounds. S6 recaptured some of the cachet. Getting S7 off to a good start is important.
arya may be out on a limb, but she understands how to avenge properly. house frey is all girls now! jon made the right call on forgiving umber and karstark. seemed like sansa didn’t know who the new lords were. even so, one has to admit this brand of leadership is exactly what got jon shanked up at the wall. hopefully the northern lords are slightly more amenable than the night’s watch was. lady mormont is a blast on several levels, not least her being the perfect counterpoint to greatjon umber declaring robb stark “the king in the north.”
i feel a little cheated that brienne hasn’t gotten any real battle action. also, i think she should start bunking with sansa until littlefinger has been dealt with.)
@5 – My memory is hazy (and forgive me if this was directly addressed in the “Previouslies”) – I remember them staying there, and I remember him robbing them of their silver. But did he actually physically kill them? I can see a sense of guilt for their fate, but I don’t see pre-death Sandor Clegane posing father and daughter in that manner.
@3 – To your point about Ed Sheeran, I wouldn’t know him from Adam (if anything, I would have expected the long-haired leader character to be the more plausibly famous actor in that troop), and nothing about that scene really felt forced to me.
I didn’t recognize Sheeran and for a while thought people on Twitter were just joking about a resemblance between actor and musician.
I know Sansa has become strong, and I truly hope she hates Littlefinger. However….I fear she’ll do something to undermine Jon, and side with Littlefinger on some issue….Which she already did really….She contradicted him in front of everyone, and she called for help from LF in the battle without telling Jon. (Frankly, I’d like to see her take LF out at some point, for many reasons, particularly for giving her to Ramsay.) Jon and Sansa need to be strong together! Does she trust Jon? . I worry.
Love Lady Mormont!
The Ed Sheeran cameo was jarring, and his line about the song being new totally took me out of the story. I’m surprised he wasn’t drinking a can of refreshing Coke too. WTF?
Looks like the HoB&W training gives Mission Impossible powers to mask-wearers, where their entire body shape and height also adapts to the new face, in addition to perfect voice imitation.
I did like the line where Sansa dismissed Littlefinger, but agree with you on that scene. Contrived drama between siblings indeed.
My biggest nitpick on the show has always been the magical transportation, like Euron’s fleet getting to King’s Landing so quickly, but whatever.
Watching the show go beyond the books seems perverted anyway, as we should be experiencing all critical plot points through GRRM’s voice first, and it frustrates me to no end. But I can’t stop watching of course.
@11 (re: Clegane killing the family) – The father tells Sandor he “has some ale stored away”. When he and Arya are leaving, she see’s him carrying off their food/ale stores and gives him a death glare, to which he responds “they wouldn’t have survived the winter anyway”. When Beric et al approach the house, he says that “maybe they have some ale stored away” to which Sandor replies “They don’t.”
I don’t think he posed them that way, I think that’s just where they ended up when he pulled the knife and killed them.
“My mother said ‘be kind to strangers and they’ll be kind to you'” Better words were never said.
And the soldiers (Lanisters) just shooting the breeze, as soldiers do. And laughing, and sharing. I think there is a lot more going on here than meets the eye. Arya has come a long way, in distance and in life. She’s on a mission but I don’t think it’s going to end up where she thinks it will.
@15 Sorry, but that’s just incorrect. What the farmer told Sandor was that he had “a bit of silver” hidden. He mentioned it when he was trying to hire him to work on the farm. The following scene takes place with Sandor having knocked the farmer down outside, and walking away with both farmer and daughter still very much alive. He robbed them of money, not food. The answer to the ale question is from him specifically asking during their meal if there was any ale to be had.
@10
“i feel a little cheated that brienne hasn’t gotten any real battle action. also, i think she should start bunking with sansa until littlefinger has been dealt with.)”
I can say without a doubt that many people want Sansa and Brienne to “bunk together”. (bow chicka wow wow)
Well, I just finished watching the episode and came here to express all the emotions and thoughts, but it’s done real easy for me since practically all has been said already :)
1) I, too, thought it was a flashback at the moment and was really confused that there were so many people as Frey was alone when Arya killed him, but when (s)he forbade the girl to drink and the others did, I knew it was poison, and a few moments later knew it was Arya. So, I’m not so hopeless after all, it seems :)
2) Even though I totally saw Sansa’s point (treachery really shouldn’t go unpunished), in the end, I agreed more with Jon’s decision. I really liked to see that he sees the bigger picture and knows what he has to do to defeat the Long Winter, that he’s willing to go where he needs to to unite all of the North, even if the decision might be hard. Pray it will suffice. As for Sansa, I’m glad she told Littlefinger off and I really hope she won’t turn against Jon, even if she does mean good (in her opinion).
3) Poor Sam …
4) I really, really loved the scene in the woods. I heard the singing and was quite suprised, wondering who might sing so well, I had totally forgotten that Ed was to make an appearance. He did ok, IMHO. And then I was worried till the end of the scene that they might do something that might provoke Arya and won’t leave the campsite alive. Well, I’m real glad nobody died there.
5) It did seem a bit odd that not a living soul was to be seen on Dragonstone. I mean, like said, at least the elders and women and children should have been here, a castle of that importance would not have been just abandoned. May-be everyone was herded away before they let their queen enter? Also, I am ignorant in these matters, but it seemed odd to me that the gates opened inwards. I mean, would’t it make it harder to protect them?
6) I did feel sorry for poor Pod. To find yourself between Brienne and Tormund … Though I can’t say I didn’t giggle.
7) Bits and pieces I can’t remember right now …
I hadn’t heard in advance that Ed Sheeran was due for a cameo. My experience went:
Somebody’s singing, and actually has a nice voice.
Arya’s talking to them, not sure which one was singing though. The red headed guy looks familiar. What have I seen him in before?
Credits rolling, oh look there’s an actor named Ed Sheeran, just like the singer. That’s funny. I wonder who he played.
a few seconds pass.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Well that’s…interesting.
From what we have been told greyscale is spread by skin to skin contact, especially on areas that are manifesting the disease. So Jorah, could you please not grab random acolytes, especially if they are Sam?
So, was anyone else reminded of Gus Fring when all the Freys got poisoned at once?
The Ed Sheeran cameo was jarring, and his line about the song being new totally took me out of the story. I’m surprised he wasn’t drinking a can of refreshing Coke too. WTF?
Agreed. What a stupid, ham-fisted attempt to sell umpteenth millions more beige music to the masses. Along with infecting most of the charts with his music the bland balladeer is now sullying my eyeballs.
I’m going to join the “Jon is in the right” side. He knows that Karhold and Last Hearth are basically speed bumps if The Others get through the wall. Let the Karstarks and Umbers prove their loyalty by holding out in the face of The Others. If they live they’re redeemed. If they don’t the Stark forces aren’t out any loyal houses. If he evicts the Karstarks and Umbers and gives their castles to loyal families then he’s weakening four points in his defense; the new occupants are unlikely to complete the move with winter having arrived, which leaves their previous castle less defended. Also, how many “loyal” families are there? Most of the North followed the Boltons as their warden and only a handful of the smaller houses defected to Sansa and Jon. Lyanna Mormont is a badass, but Bear Island doesn’t have the numbers to successfully defend territory like the Karstarks or Umbers. Jon is in the right morally and strategically, he just doesn’t want to, or know how, to argue that to Sansa.
@@@@@#2 James P. I’m pretty sure Arya and Sandor are walking right into each other. When they were together they encountered the two who Sandor buried between The Twins and The Bloody Gate so it looks to me as though Sandor is just south of Arya on the Kings Road. I could be wrong but that’s how I remember/see it.
Jon was right… but he was wrong not to talk to Sansa in advance. If she’s got the right to question you but not in public (which is perfectly sensible in the circumstances), give her the chance to do it in private!
It’s finally back! That was a long wait, but it seems like the final season might take even longer to return. So let’s enjoy this.
The cold open was pretty awesome. Arya just gave us a few quotable lines (Winter came for House Frey). Great scene. And then she met some nice Lannister men. Since this is GoT, they’re probably going to die soon. But maybe it won’t be Arya who kills them. The fact that she told them her plan to “kill the queen” leads me to believe it won’t happen. Cersei probably won’t die this season. She’s more interesting alive.
On the Jon vs. Sansa debate, they both made good points. The only problem I had was with Sansa questioning Jon in such a public manner. Maybe she’s tired of him ignoring her, but there are better ways to convince people. There’s a lot of Sansa hate now, and I can’t say I agree. The problem is that, like most things in life, it all boils down to a popularity contest. Jon is more popular than Sansa, both inside and outside the narrative, so she can’t win.
Considering how there are only 7 episodes in this season, every little scene now has to build towards something. Jon’s stance of not blaming the children for their father’s sins will probably be used later when he deals with Dany. Just because her father was mad, it doesn’t mean she’s guilty of his crimes.
Sandor had a great moment too. Nice callback to previous seasons and foreshadowing the future. Why did R’hllor bring Beric back so many times, anyway? Jon also questioned his own resurrection before the Battle of the Bastards and Melisandre had this to say: “Maybe you’re only needed for this small part of His plan and nothing else. Maybe He brought you here to die again”. I don’t know if Jon will die again, but I’m quite certain Beric will.
mrivers @@@@@ 25 – I would agree with you, and you make a good point about the location of the house where the Brotherhood stopped. However, based on weather conditions, it just seems like they’re in very different places geographically. I hope you’re right though. Ironically, I feel like Sandor can help Arya get the balance she needs between ruthless killer and the humanity that seems to be slipping away a bit.
Landstander @@@@@ 27 – It’s a good thing the north isn’t run by Klingons, since we know they hold children responsible for the “Sins of the Father.” I’m fairly certain that, for the immediate future, the scene in the teaser for next week (“Targaryens can’t be trusted” or whatever it was) specifically refers to some sort of pending alliance with Dany. However, that was after poring over it for a few minutes, because my immediate thought was that Bran had made it to Winterfell and they were dealing with the fallout of the R+L=J reveal. Either way, the need to trust people with Targaryen blood is going to be an issue for the North. This is definitely a case of “my enemy’s enemy is my friend.”
28. JamesP
Except the last time the North tried to recruit the enemy’s enemy Winterfell got captured by the Greyjoys.
@7, I’ve been wondering about the Jorah scene and I have a new theory that definitely passes the “cruel enough for GoT” test.
1. The conditions in which Jorah was being kept look pretty harsh for a hospital, even assuming a strict quarantine. The Citadel seems to know enough about infectious disease care to know that something that looks like a cell, with no apparent air flow and probably very uncomfortable furnishings inside, is not a good place to put someone who you are trying to cure and whose disease is not airborne.
2. We had the extensive autopsy scene, but without the Book Canon point of Sam being phobic about human dissection, and the cadaver showed signs of disease (cirrhosis). The most likely interpretation on my reading is showing that the Citadel is, if not cruel (it wasn’t vivisection), at least very pragmatic in its study of disease considering that it exists in a culture where the majority religious view of the human corpse is that it should be prepared by a religious order with embalming and canopic jars for the organs.
3. Daenerys made Jorah search for “a cure”.
Interpretation: the corridor is neither a hospital nor a hospice. It’s a dormitory for–hopefully all voluntary–participants in medical experiments. Jorah wasn’t emotionally capable of either refusing to swear the oath Dany asked of him or not attempting to fulfill it as best he can, but he shows no awareness that curing himself of greyscale might be possible. He doesn’t seem to have ever met Shireen, who is the only known example of arresting the progress of the disease at a non-fatal stage. Therefore, he is fulfilling the letter of his oath in the only way he knows how, because Dany didn’t actually specify that he had to find a cure for himself. He’s offered himself as a participant in a Citadel medical experiment because “use your death to further medical understanding of greyscale” could be understood as “finding a cure”. Just not necessarily a cure for his own case. While preventing himself from hurting any uninfected people, though I agree STOP GRABBING SAM, DUDE!
I have an unpleasant feeling that Jorah is going to end up euthanized and on that autopsy table. It could be quite powerful if played right.
AyeJaySedai @@@@@ 29 – Touché
But it’s also an argument we’ve already seen Jon make when he was Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch. Although in that case (and one could argue that the same holds true here, we’ll have to see how he decides to play it with the rest of the Northern Lords), there was a distinct difference of opinion among the ranks as to who “my enemy” was, and it ultimately led to Jon’s death.
Plus, I can very easily see Jon making the same overtures to Dany that Yara and Theon made.We’ll help you, but then we’re free to live our own lives and self-govern. Although Queen of the Five Kingdoms doesn’t have quite the same ring to it (I can’t remember, are the Iron Islands one of the seven? Maybe it would be the Six Kingdoms…).
Either way, we can hope that the ministrations of Sansa have paid off – learn from the mistakes of Ned and Robb. Robb truly believed Theon could be trusted, 100%, never believing that he would betray them. And Ned was blinded by his profound sense of honor. Jon should avoid making those particular mistakes in this case.
It’s not related to the last episode specifically, but has any of you been to The King In The North facebook page? My friend found this link there a couple of weeks back and it seemed too good (IMHO) to not share:
https://www.facebook.com/gameofthroness01s07/videos/550543665069329/
(Fun fact): I went to look for the link and my best friend (who does not watch the show (YET) nor has read the books) had just a couple of minutes ago sent me the very same link saying she loved it even though she hasn’t seen a single episode.
“Both women suffered under misogyny that hemmed them in, killed cruel husbands”
Yeah. Robert was so cruel to Cersei. Just as bad as Ramsay. Totally deserved to be gored to death. Another misogynist entitled white male won’t be missed.
Regarding Jon and Sansa, she is still trying to play the game of thrones, while he is looking from the perspective of a struggle between the living versus the dead, where if we don’t hang together, we will all hang separately (to paraphrase Ben Franklin). It still remains to be seen whether the people of Westeros can give up on their petty struggles long enough to save themselves from the true threat to their very existence.
It seems that with the Lannister soldier scene, and the hints about Nymeria in the preview, indicates that Arya’s resolve is being tested. Will she rejoin the pack, or continue her lone wolf ways? Especially considering how the trailers stressed Sansa’s recitation of the true Stark motto(NOT “Winter is Coming”), When winter comes, “the lone wolf dies, while the pack survives”. Can Sansa, Jon, Arya and Bran be a “pack” against the coming threats? Or will their continued insistence that they individually know the right thing to do, bring about the final end for House Stark? THAT is the question of this season, so get used to a lot more tension at Winterfell(starting with Littlefinger’s insinuations that Jon can not be truly of the North, with his Targaryen blood that “cannot be trusted”?)
Euron was great. I can not abide any criticisms of his acting either. That man has obviously spent a great deal of time copying Alfie Allen’s mannerisms, inflections and accent, because he was EERILY similar in his performance in the throne room. I know being a book reader has many of us questioning Euron here, but I am open to either storyline. Either he truly wants to “ally” with Cersei and is off to bring her her hated brother(remember the previous line admonished her to “try [killing her brother] some time”. At first we assume he’s referring to Jaime, his perceived rival, but he could also be hinting at his “gift”. Or he only sought out Cersei to get her “permission” to go after Dany, when Dany is the “prettiest woman in Westeros” that he actually wants. Either is possible, and I like the potential here. I am sure whatever his choice, he will first go after the joint Tyrell-Martell Navy. Either he takes it out and gains Cersei’s good graces, or he takes it out and ensures Dany will now be reliant on him for a naval alliance.
Wow, Sandor continues to delight. I saw one comment elsewhere, that pointed out that when we see Stannis look into the flames, it’s a delusion, but when the Hound did it, the audience believes. It’s also interesting contrasting Thoros with Melisande. Melisande saw the visions, and thought they meant she was destined for victory with Stannis, whereas Thoros understands that the visions in the flames tell him what he should be doing. I also contrast Thoros’ kindness and compassion, with Melisande’s cutthroat mentality.
@sofrina, 10
I disagree that this leadership got Jon shanked. It was Jon’s punitive behavior, executing Slynt, in addition to allying with Wildlings that got Jon killed. Jon sees punishing the child Karstarks and Umbers as repeating his mistakes at the Wall.
In Re Dragonstone. Nobody really lived there. It is an inhospitable place, there is no cultivation. This was explained back in the early seasons. The only thing of value is “dragon glass”. The Targaryens were able to make a go of inhabiting, because they had dragons they could use to take whatever they needed to survive there, then the throne subsidized it, for the “optics” of it, and because of it’s positioning on the outskirts of Blackwater Bay, it was a lookout for a potential invasion to King’s Landing. So it makes sense that it’s empty now. Whatever peasantry lived in the surrounding area is more concerned with eking out an existence in this infertile place, than setting themselves up in style in an abandoned castle(remember Stannis abandoned Dragonstone long before he was killed in the North, he didn’t leave any force behind to hold it for him).
@JamesP, 28
Bran isn’t the only person in the North who knows the truth. Littlefinger implied as much last year. And there is a scene in the episode with Jon and Littlefinger in the Winterfell crypts, where Jon’s mother is buried. So I think Jon’s heritage is about to become a factor.
Much as I would like to see Arya kill Cersei, Jon is right about the true threat. That means Arya has to head North. I like Aeryl’s suggestion that a reunion with Nymeria would push her in that direction. Also, more direwolves = always good. To say nothing of the potential for a reunion with Sandor if she heads that way.
@@@@@ 31 JamesP – I have to disagree. What Sansa is doing here is highly unethical and also extremely stupid, on a ton of levels.
First off, Robb didn’t die because of Theon. He died because Stannis lost on the Blackwater. That’s it. The Freys and Boltons jumping ship was 100% opportunistic, joining the winning Lannister/Tyrell alliance, and not because of anything Theon does.
Second, just look at what Sansa is advocating. Disenfranchise the children of people who might have wronged you. For both the Karstarks and the Umbers, it’s highly debatable whether they’re even traitors. Look, I get that Sansa is traumatized and vengeful because no one should ever have to go through what she did. And I don’t blame her for taking that stance, for that reason. But for viewers to applaud that is effed up. Sansa wants to kill children, basically, for no crime at all. She’s playing the game of thrones; reward supporters and punish enemies. She knows there is a zombie ice army of dead things coming out of the north, and she still can’t get her head out of her ass enough to recognize that it’s time to stop playing politics and start surviving. Benioff and Weiss have made her into the literal embodiment of everything wrong with Westeros’ political elite. At least Cersei has the excuse of not believing in the White Walkers.
And that ignores the timing of her outburst, which… is about as poor as could be. Look, Jon is no genius and the show does him little credit, but Sansa has consistently been the dumbest character on the show. It was better when she was an naive idealist, because at least she has room for growth. And she’s grown into a cynical political operator… who is still dumb and shortsighted.
Book!Sansa is a great character – smart and observant and still innately considerate and good, and her journey to get there while holding on to her idealism is a brilliant character arc. Show!Sansa… well, the writers just don’t understand some of the characters they’re dealing with, which is a shame. They seem to think every Westerosi noble is pitiless and ambitious, and it shows. Characters like Cersei and Littlefinger, who are genuinely narcissists in pursuit of personal power for it’s own sake, they do brilliantly. The genuinely good, righteous ones? Stannis, Brienne, Sansa, or Jon? They either turn into obsessive maniacs looking to advance their personal agenda (Stannis, Brienne) or total idiots, which results in highly contrived plot tension (Sansa and Jon).
@39 Andy,
The issue with Sansa, in the book and the show, is the same issue characters like Dany, Tyrion, and Arianna, have. They are beholden to the old world, and this story is about giving birth to a new one. The point of a Song of Ice and Fire, is that it’s the catastrophic apocalyptic destruction of the old world(magical, patriarchal, dynastic, feudal), to rebirth a fairer world that a character like Jon is more amenable to.
Dany wants to “break the wheel” but she still wants to be the one standing on the broken spokes and rim.
The problem with the show, is that Weiss and Benioff read this story, spoke with Martin and learned what was going to happen, and missed this most obvious point.
@sophist. Spoiler commentary follows y’all
So there was an EW photo shoot for the show, that had Maisie Williams, Sophie Turner and Kit Harrington. The cover was OBVIOUSLY teasing a possible reunion this season for the characters. But a thing that was noticed, is that Maisie Williams’ Arya costume had a new piece of weaponry not previously seen before. In addition to Needle, she carried a bone handled dagger identical to the Valyrian steel dagger used to try to assassinate Bran that Joffrey purportedly stole to pay the assassin with, and last seen in the possession of Petyr Baelish, as he held to Ned Stark’s throat in the throne room of the Red Keep.
So I am most confident Arya will end this season at Winterfell, and she may deal with the true architect of the sorrows of House Stark, the man who engineered her father’s downfall.
Killing LF would sate my bloodlust. For this season, anyway.
Arya needs to say something dramatic if/when she does it. I’m thinking. “My name is Arya Stark. You killed my father. Prepare to die.”
More seriously, the only person still alive who can reveal LF’s treachery is Tyrion. If the theory is correct, he must communicate with Jon, at least.
@sophist
More seriously, the only person still alive who can reveal LF’s treachery is Tyrion.
Incorrect. Littlefinger did this in full view of half the royal court. Tyrion wasn’t even in King’s Landing at the time, all he knows is that Slynt betrayed Ned, that’s why he sent him to the Wall, because “once a traitor always a traitor”. Nobody but Ned, and Cersei probably, knew about Littlefinger’s agreement to pay off the Goldcloaks. What is publicly known is that Littlefinger held a dagger to Ned’s throat when Ned tried his coup. Most people wouldn’t care about that, viewing Littlefinger’s actions as supportive of the “true king”. But Sansa, Arya and Jon would most certainly care.
It’s possible that Arya is nervous about facing her brother and sister knowing how much she’s changed from the girl they remember. Maybe she fears they will reject a trained assassin as family.
I had forgotten (or never realized) that LF used the Valyrian dagger to hold at Ned’s throat. I only associated the dagger with the attempted murder of Bran, and Tyrion is the only one who knows that.
When Arya was impersonating Walder Frey, I thought my local HBO was re-runing the last episode of season 6! Then I thought it was a flashback, and then I turn to my friend and my son and say “IT’S HER!” .
I thought Euron was referring to Tyrion. And Jon was every single bit in the right to not punish the Umber and Karstark heirs for their fathers’ crimes. Also, the North has like, four given names for people, and three sets of genes.
The bit with the Lannister soldiers was nice.
Of course, Lady Mormont is the best of the best, ever.
@2 – JamesP: Oh, right! Edd just let Bran through, shit!
@8 – HP: I don’t think Arya was going to kill those soldiers. It doesn’t strike me as in character for her to go around just killing random Lannister soldiers. She has a list
@13 – Tektonica: I hope Sansa takes down LF, but she’s probably waiting to do so in a way that she can keep his Vale forces to herself. As for Sansa speaking against Jon in public… she still doesn’t consider him an equal, I think it’s all down to that.
@14 – Daved: This a show with dragons, undead, people who see the past, people who warg into animals and other people, people who come back from the dead, etc… and you think shapeshifting into another person is worth a mention? :)
About Sansa, please remember folks, at a time when she needed the moral guidance most Sansa was left with Cersei Lannister as her only role model. Her father had been killed before her eyes, her mother was off with her oldest brother fighting Lannisters and then ended up dead. She was stuck smack dab in the middle of Kings Landing and all the games there. Oh, yeah, she was passed around like a poker chip at a hot game.
As for Arya, she’s been so long away from the west and so focused on learning how to kill so she could kill those on her list, that she may well not realize that Jon and Sansa are in Winterfell, last she knew, Sansa was in Kings Landing, and Jon was on the Wall, and Bran and Rickon were believed killed by Theon. So she has no reason to go home, yet.
As for Lady Mormont, and come to think of it Sansa and Arya, everyone’s always been so worried about the Men of the North, perhaps people should worry about the Women instead. After all, behind every strong man is a stronger woman (usually, there are exceptions.)
King Robert cruel to Cersei? She’s the one who cuckold the man, and refused to let him into her bed, though I’m suspecting she let him in each time she came up pregnant with her three golden haired children to let him think he fathered them. Yes, Robert was cruel in calling out Lyanna’s name while he was with Cersei, however the man was so totally obsessively in love with Lyanna that he was so convinced Rhaegar kidnapped her and raped her because he could not even begin to believe she might have feelings for someone else.
Oh, more on Sansa, it’s not in the show, but it is in the book. Sansa betrayed her father! While her father was quietly preparing to get his girls out of King’s Landing and back to the perceived safety of Winterfell, Sansa ran to the Queen, who she trusted at the time, to tell her that her father was making her return to Winterfell, when she did not wish to leave. This was before Sansa saw the real Joffrey and the real Cersei.
I do also believe that Sandor Clegane is more a gentleman than Joffrey ever pretended to be.
Thoros of Myr is a failed priest of the Red Lord, which means he saw something in the faith her couldn’t accept and walked away from it, mostly. That the Red Lord is still willing to use him as a vessel of his plans, leads me to think that perhaps Thoros is reading the god’s intentions right, while others are clearly not getting the picture.
In the books, Dragonstone had a town on it (Please remember the Iron Islands are not very hospitable either, they have to take what they need to survive) the town was destroyed by the same storm that Dany was born during, hence why she’s Stormborn. When Stannis went there, he wasn’t there to put down roots, so much of what was there with him was support, not just his warriors. When he went north to the wall, he took everyone with him, including his wife and daughter, so all the support went too.
I’d also like to note that what broke the protective spell in the cave, was Bran communing with the Night King while within it’s protection. It’s unlikely Bran crossing the threshold of the The Wall will break it’s spell. But if Bran communes with the King again now that he is south of The Wall, that might break it.
The song Ed Sheeran was singing is from the books (composed by a singer to blackmail Tyrion) about Shae
@19 Celebrinnen
Thank you for that. My immersion was interrupted by exactly that thought!
On another topic, luckily for me, I had no previous knowledge of Ed Sheeran. I took the song and its singer at face value, enjoying both.
“there wasn’t a joyful glee in Arya being the baddest girl in the forest” I don’t know – I mean I am not a girl power person and I have issues with misogyny but I mean I love Arya being the baddest girl in the forest simply because the things done to her are so bad. Some things are unforgivable – the lanistairs are high on the list. No problem here with Arya killing them all. NONE AT ALL.
But I am a libertarian who believes in the death penalty so yeah YMMV
That was so much fun! I especially enjoyed how the episode put all the pieces on the board. Just a nice setup, who everyone is, where everyone is, how everyone is.
Nothing to add, really; I’m just looking to share my geeky pleasure.
I recognized Arya!Walder immediately. And was so excited. Live long and suck it, House Frey. Glad that Bran and Meera made it to the Wall; I was afraid they wouldn’t. Boy, has he got a lot to say to Dolorous Edd. Somebody mentioned that Euron acted like Theon. I noticed and appreciated it, too. The facial expressions, the movements, the accent, all very good. When he mentioned that he had two hands, I actually smacked my husband in shock. Couldn’t believe he’d actually say that to Jaime’s face! Okay, the bedpan scene was SO. FREAKING. GROSS. Poor Sam. Also, poor Professor Slughorn and his students asking to get into the Restricted Section. Also also, what the crap? You’d think with the White Walkers on the way somebody in the Citadel would be feeling a little more urgent about things. I didn’t recognize Jorah at first. He always calls her Khaleesi. And then I was appalled at the apparent ‘treatment’ for greyscale. Though someone above mentioned that it might be medical experiments, maybe that’s a little better. Though you’d think they could at least put all the greyscale patients together for company?
Jon was right and Sansa was wrong. You could see the pride in Ned and Alice in being able to offer him their pledge. Also, I <3 Lady Mormont. So does Davos. Dude is ready to adopt her (not that she needs it!). I’m glad Sansa isn’t being nice to Littlefinger, though I do wish she’d let Brienne whack at him a little. Sansa and Jon need to figure out how their relationship works. I hope they do it soon.
Totally thought those soldiers were going to try to hurt or rape our Arya and she would have to kill them all. I’m glad that doesn’t seem to be the case. I love who the Hound has grown to be. But I do wish the lord of light would go away. That religion is just bat-crap crazy. I like the old gods and the weir woods.
Oh, and Dany. Welcome home, sweetie.
My husband didn’t want to watch the ‘next time on GOT’ bit, so I have no comments there. I will say, it’s nice to finally see an episode around the same time as the rest of the world!!
#fcaceres @48, I thought I recognized the lyrics from somewhere, but did not remember that specifically. So that’s what it was!
(“and, in proper epic fantasy terminology, it’s penultimate” — “its”.)
#50: But I am a libertarian who believes in the death penalty so yeah YMMV
A libertarian who believes in state-sanctioned killing? Now i’ve read everything.
First of all, I love the Arya/Walder scene. So delish, and her/his comment about not the good wine for the women, absolutely the best.
Sansa and Jon? The problem is that *Jon won’t listen to Sansa*. Not now, and not ever, apparently. However, they have the potential for a great good cop/bad cop show for the rest, not to mention assassination insurance-‘don’t kill Jon Snow, or that blonde beyotch will be in power after, no way!’. But Jon has to start listening to Sansa one of these days, right?
Then again, Jon didn’t listen to too many people on the Wall, either, and look how that worked out.
I still say that Sansa should marry Littlefinger, and have the shortest honeymoon in history. Wonder if she still has any part of that poison necklace, or did Baelish dump it all? Or if she can think of something else? Here, doggy doggy…
I liked Ed Sheeran, didn’t know who he was but I found him enjoyable.
I wondered if that cabin was the same one with the people Clegane killed (I thought he had killed them, and not just robbed them, though I might not remember it right).
Poor Sam, but at least he knows where dragonglass comes from now (I used to be a nurse’s aide, and it all seem so horribly familiar…).
Euron Greyjoy was the guy whose picture is under the definition of ‘chutzpah’ in the dictionary.
But I love Danny and her dragons coming home again.
@19 & 49
If they opened outwards, that would mean that the hinges would have to be on the outside. And that would REALLY make it harder to protect them.
I know there have been celebrity cameos on GOT before, but they have never been this blatant. He actually had to sing? I have to agree with @14 here. In context, seeing pop-boy Sheeran here shoved me right out of this intricate fantasy world, and instead of watching the scene for what it was, I was vaguely annoyed by the distraction.
Also agree with @51 here, I like the fact that this first episode after so long was more about exposition than plot. This is why, IMO, GOT is such a special series. Those involved in writing and directing will not sacrifice character development for mindless action. And so we come to care about these characters one way or the other, and when the action DOES happen (as it does in the next episode – boy does it ever), it’s that much more thrilling and powerful.
Coming at this a bit late but:
-I suppose it says something that the biggest shock of this episode was when those guys didn’t end up being murderers and rapists. I was actually on the edge of my seat wondering of Arya WOULD kill them and their inclusion is only meant to show us how far she’s gone. In fact, I worried that the next episode would open with her having killed all of them! I have no idea who Ed Sheeran is so I was blisfully unaware of that cameo and just appreciated the singing.
-Regarding Arya’s other scene in the opening I actually knew the second it started – given that the ‘Previously On’ blatantly showed Arya killing him, it was obvious that it wasn’t Walder, and who did we just see using her skinchanging powers? Plus as soon as he said ‘I’ve gathered every Frey here’ it seemed pretty telling what was going on. Didn’t mean I enjoyed it any less ;) Although I do wonder if the impact/surprise would have been greater if they HADN’T telegraphed it by showing it in the Previously On, leaving some viewers to wonder if they were remembering wrong, etc. Honestly, the Previously Ons kind of bug me because they often seem to low key spoil things, especially when they make a point of showing something that wasn’t relevant since several seasons ago.
-Definitely interested to see where the Hound will end up. I would definitely like to see a reunion with Arya.
-Argh darn it Sansa! She may have some good points, but it just undermines credibility and increases dissent/tensions (at a time when it really is crucial) to speak out like that. I’m not in any way advocating that she just accept everything he does blindly (and maybe Jon needs to be better about discussing these things with Sansa BEFOREHAND). But the thing is, Jon is being strategic here; it’s not just dumb mercy. Sure, he could strip their lands – and create some bitter enemies. I’m pretty sure that (intentionally or not) he’s created two lords who will feel very grateful and beholden to him and will be more loyal to him than perhaps somebody who just inhereited the castles of a stripped lord (and worried that the same could happen to him – which as Tarly points out in the next episode, is basically how Cersei operates. So I guess Sansa is right, she DID learn a lot from her.). Plus, ultimately, he’s right, it wasn’t the children who did it, so I think they at least should get one more chance to prove their loyalty, especially when they need all the forces they can get. Having to redistribute would only weaken their own flanks.
-Cersei went straight for the drink as soon as Jaime mentioned Tommen. She’s just off the rails totally by now (and probably has been) and if anything even more dangerous now that she has nothing to lose.
-Euron, eh. Something about his leather jacket seemed to modern-ish. Nothing against the actor – I think he did a good job with the subtle barbs at Jamie, etc. But I do wonder what his gift will be and how his arc will go in light of the change from the book in which he is actively trying to marry Dany. I wonder if show-Euron still has that possible idea.
-Lyanna <3 I also loved the little grin Brienne gave when she was listening to her speech.
-Littlefinger, YOU ARE THE WORST. GO AWAY.
-Hah, my husband I made some Requieum for a Dream jokes too. Regarding Maester Slughorn, I was actually much more reminded of the Professor from The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe when he tells Sam that, “logically”, he must be telling the truth. :D I thought his speech/perspective was interesting, and I think it IS a needed one. But it still neglects the point that the reason ‘life goes on’ is becuase people actually do something about it (and also, life doesn’t ‘go on’ for everybody so it’s always nice to maximize that if you can!)
-Oooh, I didn’t even think about the ‘mark’ Bran has on him. Yup, they’re all goners (I mean, yeah, this was also telegraphed pretty hard with like 3 people talking about how the Wall will NEVER come down).
-Generally agreed with others that the ‘pack’ theme is probably going to be a big one, especially for the Stark kids’ development.
-Regarding the ‘cruel King Robert’ stuff – I don’t remember if this came up in the show, but I thought in the book he did beat her, etc. No, he’s no Ramsay, but he’s hardly a good husband. Not that it would have mattered – even if he was a great husband, I’m sure Cersei would still have schemed against him.
LisaMarie @@@@@ 58
At least once we had Robert striking Cersei (C – “I shall wear this bruise like a badge of honor.” R – “Wear it in silence, or I’ll honor you again.”). It’s not a stretch to assume that wasn’t the first time.
But your last point is still spot on. He was far too obsessed with the ghost of his lost love. She may have held out hope for a brief moment, but as far as he was concerned, there was never truly a chance to love Cersei (C – “I felt something for you once, you know.” R – “I know.” C – “Even after we lost our first boy…for quite a while, actually. Was it ever possible for us? Was there ever a time, ever a moment?” R – “No. Does that make you feel better or worse?” C – “It doesn’t make me feel anything.”). It’s clear that whatever love ever existed for Cersei, it’s long gone, so yes, she definitely would have been scheming.
In the books Cersei never had any feelings for Robert, she hated him for killing the Prince she was Promised. He hated her for not being Lyanna. This is one marriage that never had a chance and as far as I can tell was mutually abusive. Robert used his fists. Cersei was subtler.
@59, 60 – yeah, I think that scene only happened in the show. In fact, I thought in the books she never even had the baby, but aborted any baby she thought might be his. (That I might be misrembering though…)
You’re not. Cersei actually boasts of the fact.