(SPOILERS ahead for A Memory of Light!)
Finishing A Memory of Light, and The Wheel of Time series, was a very satisfying experience.
At DragonCon in September 2012 I had heard Brandon Sanderson say that when you reached the end of the book there was “a kind of serenity” that arrived as the Last Battle faded away and Robert Jordan re-asserted himself to close the narrative he had spent the last half of his life building. Brandon was absolutely right about that. Once I had finished A Memory of Light I felt that all my questions had been answered, that all the scenes and reunions and clashes I had wanted to see were a matter of memory now, and that the 14-book epic felt well and truly finished.
And then I couldn’t stop thinking of what I wanted next.
Isn’t that a marvelous trick? As if 15 books weren’t enough, Robert Jordan still managed to conclude The Wheel of Time in a way that made me want to stay in his world.
To that end, here’s a list of the 5 characters and situations I immediately wanted to keep following after A Memory of Light:
1.) The Seanchan Empire Rebuilds.
The larger issue of the aggressive intolerance of the Seanchan Empire is tabled at the end of the series, and honestly, I was really happy about that. I have never been a fan of the Seanchan storyline, as it often felt like a different narrative trying to push its way into the story of The Wheel of Time. To me, Seanchan characters are also predominantly antagonistic and unlikeable, and even Mat’s prevailing presence was never enough to make them interesting.
So now that I don’t have to actually read about them anymore, why do I want to read about them some more? Because thanks to the events of A Memory of Light, anything about the Seanchan now has to include Min and a captive Moghedien.
Seanchan is also now forced to deal with change that they haven’t implemented. The Dragon’s Peace, while it doesn’t free the damane, at least forces them to limit their number to “homegrown” channelers (so to speak). Channelers that will most likely be hard to come by thanks to the Seanchan continent being in a state of rebellious ruin.
Will Tuon take advantage of Moghedien, one of the only fonts of Age of Legends information left in the world, to rebuild Seanchan? Most definitely. Did Artur Hawking get a chance to speak with Tuon? We don’t know. Even if he did, would anything result from that? Maybe! Would it be awesome to read about Mat, Tuon, and Min trying to help each other while simultaneously working against each other? You bet!
Suddenly there are a lot of directions the Seanchan story can go. And even if that direction is for the worse, we now have more of our favorite characters with which to view it through.
2.) The Adventures of Rand.
Um, YEAH. So there’s this guy? He saved the world? Went through some serious crap? And now gets to ramble around the countryside with weird new powers that essentially allow him to think anything into existence?
I expected Rand to survive the events of The Wheel of Time and most likely a lot of the fanbase did, as well. (And I’m actually pretty okay with that, despite it feeling like a bit of a dramatic cop-out.) What I did not expect was for him to walk off into the sunset with the ability to do anything he wanted. The mere fact that Rand is still in the world and able to enact change makes me want to read about his further adventures. (He certainly seemed in an adventuring mindset at the end there.) And the unexpected gift of Creator-y powers makes it seem like Rand still has a role to play in world events, if only to nudge those events back on the right track every now and then.
And this doesn’t even take into account his forthcoming families via Elayne and Aviendha. Or that his other girlfriend is probably going to get spirited half a world away. Is he going to try and raise his kids? Could he?
3.) A… Grey Tower, if you will.
The White Tower is now without the leader who managed to unite and inspire them and stands once again diminished in number and spirit. At the same time, there’s still a desperate need for the Black Tower, now that saidin is clean and the Last Battle over. The need for Aes Sedai of either gender is still great, but the task of rebuilding is absolutely daunting. How will these organizations deal with that?
And this barely touches the “offer” made to Cadsuane at the end of the book. Will she take the reins and become Amyrlin? Or will she flee? If the former, will she be a better leader, perhaps thanks to Rand chastening her stubborn nature a little? If the latter, would she consider herself a failure for not taking what may be her last opportunity to change the world for the better?
With Logain seemingly the obvious choice for M’Hael (or Tamyrlin, as they might now call it), it would be interesting to see him and Cadsuane come to blows on a number of subjects, with Androl and Pevara perhaps representing a more united opinion in contrast.
(Also Egwene should get a friggin’ statue. But that’s just me.)
4.) The Court of the Sun.
Elayne now stands poised to create an Empire in opposition to Seanchan-held lands. She holds the rule of Andor and Cairhien, two of the continent’s most powerful nations. She is allied with the nations to the north and south through treaty and in some cases through friendship. She is a prominent Aes Sedai. She holds the key to advanced, non-magical weapons technology. And she’s about to give birth to the children of the world’s known savior in what could very well be the start of a dynasty.
Oh, also she’s going to live a few hundred more years and is kind of already a living legend.
If we wanted to see a large-scale story of how the world moves on after the Last Battle, Elayne would certainly be the character to watch. She holds the world in her hands and could very well become the next Artur Hawkwing.
The non-Aiel events we saw when Aviendha went through the Way-Forward ter’angreal were also centered largely around Elayne and her descendants, and even though some aspects of that future have been changed, will the general shape of it still play out?
5.) Moiraine and Thom: Free Agents!
One of the biggest bummers about A Memory of Light was the lack of Moiraine Sedai screentime. Here she was, skipped to the very end of a fight she had dedicated her life to, and we barely got a notion of how that felt for her.
Now that she and Thom have survived the Last Battle, what will they do? Thom has ballads to compose, I guess, but Moiraine needs a new mission. Would she aid recovery efforts? Would she head to Shara because probably no one else is going to think to do so? Would she tail Rand to make sure he stays safe? Would she hunt down the few remaining Darkfriends/shadowspawn? All of the above?
While Moiraine was a pretty cool customer in the series, she was nevertheless a consistent inciting agent, so wherever she goes, trouble will result. And I want to see that.
These are just the stories I’m curious about. Here are 4 other scenarios that were sort of left hanging by the end of the series:
1.) Malkier Reborn.
This is a no-brainer. It’s got to happen. The Blight is vanishing and Lan not only survived the Last Battle, he sent Demandred off for eternal hugs with the Dark One.
Nynaeve and Lan seem like they’ll rebuild his nation, maybe unite the Borderlands under them… but other than that it doesn’t seem like they have all that much intrigue left to their story. (Nynaeve has some serious Healing Knowledge to drop on the Aes Sedai, but Nynaeve teaching/browbeating people isn’t really a story.) It’s hard to imagine anything than a Happily Ever After for these two.
2.) He Has a Book to Finish.
If Jordan and/or Sanderson had really wanted to gut us, they would have killed Loial in A Memory of Light. Thankfully, they didn’t, because Loial is adorbs and also… he has a book to finish!
While this is cool, a story about someone writing the story we just read isn’t anything I’d want to follow. The only angle of interest to this would be if the Elders told Loial that the Ogier have served their purpose and are leaving this reality once he’s finished writing. That would put Loial in an interesting conundrum, considering how deeply connected he feels to this world, this fight, and his friends.
But that would also be a really sad story to give to one of the few cheery, unsullied characters in the series. And who wants to see Loial be sad?
3.) Aviendha and the Aiel.
The continued progression of the Aiel and Aviendha, while it produced the most devastating chapter in Towers of Midnight, seems intimately tied to the progression of Elayne’s power and not really a story that would strike out on its own.
But what if it did? Aviendha will most likely rise to a position of leadership, and she definitely needs to figure out what to do with Hessalam/Graendel. It would be interesting to see Aviendha’s treatment of Hessalam juxtaposed with Tuon’s treatment of Moghedien. Especially if it’s through the eyes of Rand, jumping back and forth to visit Min and Avi. Would he see Avi grow into a more rigid, demanding leader, like Tuon? Like himself?
4.) Perrin and Faile.
Perrin and Faile seem set on roosting back in the Two Rivers, or rebuilding Saldaea, but aside from some domestic conflicts between Faile and Perrin, and some difficulty adjusting to Elayne’s reign, there doesn’t seem to be a continuing story on the horizon for these two. Maybe I’m wrong?
So that’s what swirled around in my head after reading A Memory of Light. What did you want to see after finishing the series?
Chris Lough is the production manager of Tor.com and was Gaidal Cain this whole time. Weird, right? Very meta of Jordan.
Thanks for the post, Chris.
Some things you didn’t mention that are interesting to me:
I would be very interested in seeing the role that Rand’s schools play out in this world over the long-haul.
I would like to see the decline of the Shaido back in the Waste. I imagine they would turn on each other, having nobody else with whom to skirmish. We could see this from Galina’s eyes!
I’d be curious, too, to see how much Mat’s luck changes, assuming he is no longer ta’veren.
Of the storylines you mentioned, anything with Rand or Min would be top of my list. Next, would be seeing how the “two towers” learn to work together.
The Song – Rand obviously knows the song, but no mention was made of giving it back to the Tinkers.
I don’t think that it’s a big story to tell, really, but for some reason it stuck out in my head as something I would like to see addressed.
I think the Aiel story might be the most interesting for dramatic potential. Wheel of Time: Legend of the Rangers, perhaps?
(As soon as the treaty happened, I had flashes to Babylon 5.)
Sharans Post-Demandred would be interesting. Will they continue to fight, as is implied in the vision Rand had in the Pit?
And while no more books will be written regarding the Wheel of Time, per Harriet nd Brandon’s testimony… perhaps the outriggers could be done as a TV show? I realize RJ left no notes… but that might be better for a TV show. The writers of the show could do what’s best for television without worrying about adapting something designed for the page…
Tenobia is dead. Davram Bashere is dead. That means that Faile is Queen of Saldaea.
But lest you think that means that Perrin will be left in the cold, remember that the reason that Tenobia never married was because her husband would have been King, not just Prince Consort. In other words, Perrin is now King of Saldaea as well as Lord of the Two Rivers.
My guess is that Tam will take over the Two Rivers on a semi-permanent basis while Perrin and Faile head for the Borderlands, in a time when there is no longer a Border to protect.
I am not so much concerned with whether or not Tuon can re-establish empiral on the Seanchan continent. Rather, I would be interested to read how she and the Seachan interact with the rest of the nations of the Randland. What effect, if any, would the wide scale reveal that the suldamaes (sp) can channel?
I would also be interested in learing the back story of Shara and there prohicies that lead them to fight along side Trollocs and other Shadowspawn. Further, what will happen to that society now that almost all of the channelers have been destroyed.
Thanks for reading my musings,
AndrewB
Brentodd @2 – Brandon actually addressed this in one of his signings last week. RJ explicitly left instructions that the Tinkers will never get the Song back. They could have been standing there when he was singing it, and they wouldn’t have known what was happening. They are too far removed, it is forever lost to them. Personally, I think that’s just. It’s funny how people feel so bad for them, but remember the story about how they were formed. They stole a bunch of wagons and possessions of the Aiel (probably how angreal, sa’angreal, and ter’angreal ended up in the world at large) and abandoned them to their fates. That’s their history, their creation as a group if you will.
Chris – In re Min, I’m not so sure she’s going back to Seanchan. She was with the other Westlander folks, specifically Aviendha and Elayne, at Rand’s funeral. Tuon has no authority inherent in keeping her, and I’m pretty sure the rest of the world would quickly pounce upon the Seanchan if they tried to essentially kidnap the Dragon’s consort.
For me, the story I think could be/would be best is finding some Aielman that is now one of these peacekeepers set up by the Dragon’s Peace and following him/her. It could be almost some sort of crime serial ala the Dresden Files novels with magic and would allow you to see things happening in the entire world. That’s pretty cool
Personally, I thought after all these books that effectively we would get another book with the epilogue. So while these are great ideas I thought the following would be pretty good. Loial at the nearing of the “Dragon’s Peace of a Hundred Years” would write a follow up book for the Dragon University’s Library. Each chapter in the book would cover the various regions and central characters and what happened afterwards. Yes, you could still write books or a new series but set up the frame work and provide an epilogue. I mean for example, the Tinkers/the Aiel/the Song in peace. The borderlands not having the blight. Berelain being a ‘descendent’ of Hawking and the Seanchan. Two Rivers and the Broken Crown. Min’s travels with the mysterious stranger.
Would Hessalam/Graendel be one of those few that would subconciously fight the Compulsion (see Morgase) or is she held forever?
Would Perrin and Faile grant lordship of the Two Rivers to Tam and run off to Saldea (since, well, Faile…you’re next!)
I’m also curious where the Seanchan will go.
Hinderstrap…are they still zombified? ;)
Birgitte and Gaidal. I confess, I want to see what this spinning out will do…even though yes they’re just being born/conceived (depending on the belief of when the soul “starts”)
Great post, love some of the continued storylines. One thing about the Perrin/Faile storyline I would love to know more about how they will rebuild Saldaea while handling a booming Two Rivers. Neither of them channel, but I would assume there would be no shortage of channelers willing to help them Travel back and forth between the two, but it still seems like a daunting task. Elayne wasn’t even happy that Faile was 2nd in line for the Saldaean throne, so now that she’s queen I’m sure that will be a thin rope to walk. Can a queen of a sovereign nation be a mere Steward in another nation (albeit a small empire) with the queen of another sovereign nation her bound to her? Very messy politics, here…
Marty, good call on the Shaido through Galina’s eyes, and I like your “two towers.” I would love to see what becomes of the Black Tower, as I assume eventually (or not) we will have to consolidate channelers of both genders into one unified group, and an established city like Tar Valon would probably be a better choice than some farmland in Andor.
I think seeing how the discussion between Egwene and Tuon regarding allowing women who can channel to choose whether to become domani or choose to join the rest of the world would be interesting to track. Since those that can wield the One Power are so influential in shaping events, following such a storyline would be interesting.
The Shara (before and after), and what happens between the Sea Folk and the rest of the world would also be interesting to see.
The other piece that I’d find an interesting story is the way the Dark One manifests itself going forward. Who are the first to switch to the Shadow, what leads to this fall, and how do they gain traction, moving towards the next eventual showdown.
By the way – am I the only one who picked up on Loial singing a NEW song that made the trollocs’ weapons sprout new growth and caused the ground to blossom? I thought that this indicated he had spontaneously rediscovered the creation song of the ogier in much the same way that Egwene discovered the anti-balefire.
If I remember correctly (I may not, and I haven’t looked it up), I believe that the Two Rivers will revert back to Rand’s heirs upon their majority. So, Tam, as their grandfather, would be a good choice to become Steward of the Two Rivers.
It sounds like you misunderstood what Aviendha saw in the way-forward machine. She was looking at the future of HER children with Rand, not Elayne’s.
I want the happy endings.
– When is Avi having Rand’s four kids – could be pregnant now but I doubt it. I expect they’ll get together later is that the strange thing about them as mentioned in Min’s prophecy is they are fathered by Moridin’s body.
– What’s going to be up with Elayne’s two kids?
– What’s going to happen with Tam? Without Rand around, I want him to settle down with a nice girl back in the TR. Leane? Morgase after she gets bored of Tallanvor? Alliandre?
– What’s Bode Cauthon going to do, as sib to the Prince of Ravens and one of the most powerful channelers in the WT? Must be something cool.
– How long will it take Berelain and Galad to get hitched and start making beautiful babes, etc.
So has anyone been able to ask Sanderson about the one detail from the “Hero Rides Away” scene that was most intriguing for the future? Does Rand now have a Creator-like ability to manipulate reality, or does he have a magic pipe? My initial reaction was the former, but the more I think about it, the more the latter seems like the intended touch, written as it was when the story was still the nascent idea of a pipe-collecting author. I mean, I find the idea that Rand is now a bit of an x factor to be interesting, but I do want to know what the intent was there.
Elaynes children are IN AVIENDHA’S vision though… her children meet with the current Queen of Caemlyn who is Elayne’s granddaughter.
I would like to say I disagree wholeheartedly with the “This was a great ending” there were too many character flaws and loose ends. The final straw for me was the epilogue, Rand running off on the Aiel, Ji’e’Toh, his women, his children, his friends, his father, his responsibilities and his dreams of making the world a better place. He just takes off and “lets go” of everything. Was terrible, if Jordan wrote this section then he did so with the melancholy of nearing death, because this is not the Rand I came to love.
I kind of thought that the self-lighting pipe was his taveren-ness in action. Sort of how dark-Rand was threatening Cadsuane with a coincidental heart attack. After all, it’s VERY unlikely that a pipe would light on its own. Therefore around Rand, it’s likely to happen. He’s like his own Infinite Improbability Drive.
Oh, and I definately think Moghedien is going to get broken by the adam. She’s going to end up like Therava little Lina
@Jhirrad. Very cool. I also think that RJ not having the Tinkers ever find the song is quite apropos. He wanted his world to seem like it went on past the last book, and finding the Song would feel far too much like everything was tied up and pat.
@radynski. That’s why I made sure to specify that the non-Aiel-centered scenes in the way-forward chapters give us glimpses into the progression of the Court of the Sun. In Towers Avi is shocked that her descendants would (seemingly, we don’t know for sure) betray Elayne’s descendants in order to trigger a war with the Seanchan Empire.
My conjecture is that Avi and Elayne would most likely do their damndest to make sure their respective progeny are basically one family, so that they move forward as such when Avi and Elayne’s influence fades. It would be interesting to see if what’s what ultimately causes the betrayal or if that avoids it.
Broken Crowned King @18: RJ had been saying since the 90’s that he knew the ending basically since he began the series. I see no reason to disbelieve him.
@18 Broken Crowned King: I shared your general feeling of discomfort with the ending re: Rand’s riding off alone. Actually, it was less that he left (he does after all look like one of the Forsaken now, and that could be an issue) and more the way in which he was thinking about Elayne, Min, and Aviendha while he did it. I can understand him ditching the party for a month of rising through the countryside. He did just save the world. But he seemed to be thinking of them in a very, “Wow, three women! I just don’t know! Yikes! That sure is amazing! Now, about getting out of here …” sort of way. And that’s not the Rand we’ve seen develop over the last half-dozen or so books. The Rand we’ve come to know would maybe ditch for a while, but with the intent of finding a way to make it all work with the three of them, if perhaps without knowing exactly how. I sort of shoved that unease aside because I was otherwise happy, and after a quarter-century, hey, I was glad we had an ending at all.
What I think may have happened is that as has been discussed before, Jordan wrote that scene very early on. He knew the entire time he was writing the story that Rand would ride off into the sunset with the world saved. He did not necessarily, however, know exactly how he was going to do that, at least not in enough detail to say how it might change those characters in the process. Had he lived, I’d bet money he would have tweaked the tone a bit to sound more like the Rand that had grown up through the story rather than the Rand that was in Jordan’s mind when he was a younger author just starting a story. Unfortunately, he wasn’t there to tweak it, and I suspect nobody else wanted to mess with what had become an almost artifact-level passage of text (and understandably so). Thus, we get the weird dissonance in Rand’s attitude toward his partners. And if I’m right, and that’s what happened, well, all things considered I can deal with that.
– I’d like to have the further travels of Moraine and Thom- I missed them most in AMOL. –
– After the 100 year peace – Randland vs. Seanchan – (Might not be an issue if reason/diplomacy ends the damane slavery problem)
– An all out assault on Shara –
– Rand popping up in random places settling disputes with his matrix pattern bending powers – ;)
I think the Malkier & Two Rivers story lines would be great given the geopolitical tensions between Andor and Seanchan. Can the borderlands truly be united again? Will Malkier’s rise cause tension with Faile and her claim to the Saldean throne? Where will Perrin stand given his loyalty to Mat and Rand (ie – and by proxy their significant others in Tuon and Elayne)? How will Aiel survive as a people without a Land? What will happen to the three-fold-land now? What becomes of Shara and will the Seanchan homeland arise separate from the Empress? There are a TON of great storylines that have been left unresolved coming out of a Memory of Light, and that doesn’t even touch on the biggest one: what is Rand’s role in this new political world? At least 3 of the high-ranking members of the various factions know he’s alive (Elayne, Aviendha, and Min), and other suspect (Cadsuane & more).
I like some of these ideas, but I’d like to read a trilogy set in the Age of Legends. One book Leading up to the Opening of the Bore, One with the War of Shadow in full swing, all the forsaken at their heights. Full of the betrayals and all that. And another that encompasses The sealing of the bore with the final chapter the same as the prologue to Eye of the World
@17 FTHurley. Aaaaah! I love the idea that he merely has a magic pipe and not SuperCreatorPowers. Hehe. Great job saving the universe, kid. Here’s a pipe.
@FTHurley I noticed Rand seeming a little off at the end as well. What you said was an interesting point. At the least I’ll just think that maybe he never really thought about ACTUALLY being able to live past the last battle and didn’t think about what he would do with 3 ladies. I would also think though that he would follow the Aiel in the way that he would just marry all three of them after they all became first sisters.
Also I noticed noone has said anything about Olver! I think he would have a pretty awesome storyline afterwards. Probably become some kind of hero like Farstrider and have Dark Friends somehow find out he had/knew where the horn was, etc.
@15: If that was directed at my comment #14, I wasn’t referring to the Way-Way Forward Machine vision, I was refering to the treaty with Elayne that made Perrin Steward of the Two Rivers in the name of the Dragon Reborn. I thought I remembered a clause in it that would cause the Two Rivers to revert to Rand’s descendants.
Chris I want the answers to all your scenarios and to see ALL of the Above!
Hi Chris,
Nice premise. Although I don’t think all of my questions were answered by AMoL, I am quite content with which stories/topics/events were addressed, while (like you) forging in my mind possible future stories in the Wheel of Time universe.
I 100% support Harriet’s desire to not do any outrigger (or any other type of expanded WoT universe) novels as any such stories were not written, or plotted out, by RJ. However, it doesn’t mean that we can’t imagine the possibilities!
Ok, so the whole Nakomi thing is obvious, and is probably linked with Rand and his adventures (I still maintain that the Aiel woman Rand saw when he crawled out of Shayol Ghul was her). So excluding that, I would be curious to see the adventures of Rand’s 3 “wives” and their impact on the 4th Age.
I agree that Min’s story could be wrapped in with Mat & Tuon, but nothing says that Min has to stay with the Empress (may she live until she dies); Min is her own woman.
Elayne’s control/influence/alliance with Andor, Cairhien, Two Rivers, Ghealdan, Mayene, and Saldaea makes her incredibly formidable as a leader. She is the answer (and possible foil) to the Seanchan empire.
Aviendha and her story really intrigues me. As an Aiel Wise One, she can help direct/guide the enforcers of the Dragon’s Peace. This could lead to all types of possible adventures. Plus, the Shaido are still out there…
Also, we have Shara. They declared war on multiple nations in Randland (and the Seanchan empire). That must be addressed, otherwise they are always a threat to the east.
What happens to the Land of the Madmen? Does the Seanchan Empire look to expand there? Do the nations of Randland work with the Seafolk to try diplomatic efforts?
What about the Windfinders? They now own land on/near Caemlyn and Cairhien. There has to be more of a story to that.
Will the White Tower/Windfinder/Wise One exchange program survive the death of Egwene? Or will old Aes Sedai attitudes about “wilders” resurface?
great ideas, and as a perrin fan, i’d love to see the borderland story from his perspectiv, but i would also love to see the reunions that we didn’t get in A memory of light, with all the emond’s fielders sitting down for a chat, though i can imagine it beeing rather hard explaning droping off the face of the earth and popping up with another face :P
As for the lack of Moiraine, it felt quite weird, with the massive build up since the revelation of her letter, and then all she does is say hello and run like hell out of an “exploding” cave :P so a continuation of her ressuraction would be awesome, and as Anthonypero said seeing it all on Tv would be amazing though i would hope they based it on any eventual notes of Jordans not free wheeling it or only convert “fan dreams”.
marty@1 – I had forgotten about the schools. Yes, that would definitely be another cool thing to see develop.
scifantasy@3 – Hah! I hadn’t even thought of comparing the Aiel and the Rangers, but that definitely works. Nice.
Shawn@6 – I don’t think that is why Tenobia married; where is that reference? Kandor had a queen who ruled; so did/does many other nations.
Burnstar@9 – I like that idea. Loial acting as narrator, giving an overview of what’s happened, but in an interesting narrative form. Kind of like an anthology of Randland adventures, but by one author.
prostar@10 – Birgitte and Gaidal! Of course! And Hinderstap is a good idea, too.
AP@14 – I believe that Perrin and his line are stewards for the Dragon Reborn (and by extension, his line). So Rand and Elayne’s kids (and technically, Rand and Avi’s kids, although usually the oldest child inherits the claim) could claim the 2 Rivers whenever. The question is, would they? Or would it be politically savvy to have the children of Lord Goldeneyes still be strongly associated with (and by extension, subservient to) the throne of Andor?
RobMRobM@16 – Hah! I love the “Tam settles down” possibility, and would be tickled pink if it were with Leane! Also, excellent point about Bode Cauthon. So many possibilities with Bode, Mat and Tuon’s relationship…
IrishOMalley@23 – I respect your optimism in the matter, but I don’t think that “reason” or “diplomacy” without some type of teeth (financial, military or otherwise) behind it has been or will ever be enough to end slavery on its own. Especially with a class/caste system so strongly built into the Seanchan’s cultural foundation.
Barring some type of revolution or a disruption of the a’dam’s one-way-forced-link mechanism, I don’t see the Seanchan Empire radically changing.
Rob Said: – When is Avi having Rand’s four kids – could be pregnant now but I doubt it. I expect they’ll get together later is that the strange thing
about them as mentioned in Min’s prophecy is they are fathered by
Moridin’s body.
It just dawned on me: the special ability Avi’s kids had, where they could channel from an early age and never let go of the TS, I’m betting is due to being conceived by a man who has Rand’s near-Creator-like ability over the Pattern!
The range and depth of responses tells me that RJ succeeded in leaving a vibrant world – with more than the breath of life other series that settle for a ‘fate complete’ are often left with – full of possibilities. All credit to him for his vision and congratulations to his successors for seeing it through to AN ending.
The burning question for me is more process than plot related. I have read conflicting stories on the nature of the Epilogue and the earlier intelligent comments have really whet my appetite for a definitive answer as to who wrote what.
However, the two stories i’d most like to see have already been mentioned by the article writer and commenters. The Mat/Tuon storyline is definitely a rich vein to be mined, but the story I have fervently wished for – given RJ’s unambiguous refusal to write it,quite forlornly – is the AOL exactly as described by a previous commenter (apologies for forgetting your name).
I don’t know how well it would work given the unraveling of most of the VEIL OF AWESOME from the stars on the Dark Side, as the story progressed. Even so, the heart wants what it wants.
One last thing. As you can see above, I am a bit clingy on plot points going forward, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary that they should. Even so, this blind insistence that there is a story beyond what we’ve already seen of the SONG, I feel is missing the boat, at all ports of call.
All ambiguity was erased in TSR and the scenes Rand saw through his ancestor’s eyes. I see others have already explained it the same way I was going to.
I will end this bag of long wind by pointing those who insist upon pursuing the SONG to pointed remarks made by BS at various signings recently.
grl
Ok, reread the passages regarding succession in the Two Rivers. It really hinges on the “betrothal” they worked up between Perrin and Faile’s child and one of Elayne’s. That’s what I was remembering. If Perrin and Faile ascend to the throne of Saldea, they are obligated to appoint one child as Steward of the Two Rivers and one as the prince or princess of Saldea. They can’t inherit both. Then, the one who is to be Steward of the Two Rivers is to be betrothed to one of Elayne’s children… but it doesn’t specify which one. My guess is that Elayne plans/hopes to betrothe the Daughter-Heir to the Steward, thereby reclaiming the Two Rivers within a generation.
Dear Tor.com,
Please fix your mobile site so that when i log in i dont have to fill out my name and emaile and the sqiggly letters every time i comment.
At for the ending- i felt kind of let down. All who didnt like it i share your confusion. Through out the books rand kept saying he wasnt strong enough to stay away and now suddenly he can just walk off? Um Elayne is pregnant u jerk! Now granted, Rand thought he would die and stuff but still you lived! You lived and get to see your children- fruit of your loins- loinfruit if you will, grow up in a peaceful world.
Other issues i had
Gawyns death was silly
Moiraine really didnt do anything.
How do the al’veres feel? Their daughter and son in law are dead. Where is egwenes funeral. She wasnt always my favorite character but still shouldnt the world mourn her death as well? She played an important part for rand.
Still devestated that suian and gareth
Another thing I’d like to read is a collection of short stories following some of the heroes of the horn. A few Birgitte stories, a smattering of Jain Farstrider stories. Maybe the legend of Mosk and Merk battling each other with lances of fire, Lem flying to the moon in the belly of an eagle, etc, etc.
@8 Jhirrad I’m not sure your take on the Tinker’s origin is… fair. Though it may be a matter of perspective. I think it’s more like the original Aiel split into two groups – one kept the name Aiel, and became the warlike people we know and fear. The other remained true to their origins, and turned their backs on the others, and became the peaceful people we know and fear (they steal children, you know). From my perspective, if either of the two groups is to be maligned for their origins, it’s the modern-day, so-called Aiel.
@13 Bernardette – I noticed Loial’s song too, which is another reason I wanted to see the Tinkers get it back. 2 people know it! It’s almost common knowledge at this point.
I guess if RJ/BS say they’ll never recover it, then that’s that. I’m not sure I like the reasoning… 3000 years of adhering rigidly to The Way of The Leaf should get them something, in my opinion. It would certainly be useful, considering there’s pretty much no food, or crops in the ground, or people to work the land. Starvation is going to be very real for the next year or so.
I’d like to see Nynaeve and the Yellow Ajah trying to deal with the legacy of the taint and the Black Tower. We know she can unpick the madness – I imagine there are few men in the Black Tower who are totally unaffected, and target number one should be Logain. With the Forsaken and Taim gone, doesn’t that make him the longest-active male channeler alive? Proportionally, he should be at least somewhat mad.
I too was a bit sad the Song didn’t make it to the Tinkers, but as long as it was an authorial choice and not an oversight, I am content. The seed-singing days are gone forever with the Nym anyway.
RE: Tinkers
quote from Jhirrad: “Personally, I think that’s just. It’s funny how people feel so bad for them, but remember the story about how they were formed. They stole a bunch of wagons and possessions of the Aiel (probably how angreal, sa’angreal, and ter’angreal ended up in the world at large) and abandoned them to their fates. That’s their history, their creation as a group if you will.”
I just reread book four….and my take on their history is very very different… The Aiel were instructed to keep the *angreal and move them about while looking for place of safety…but the very very last order we see an Aes Sedai give an Aiel is something along the lines of “No matter what else, keep the Way of the Leaf.” If you re-read that section, the Aes Sedai thinks of the *angreal (they are just called “the things”) as almost an afterthought. Her final wishes were to for the Aiel to keep the Way of the Leaf, above all else. Only the Tinkers truly kept to the Covenant.
I’m ok with the Tinkers of the present never finding the “Song” as they dont understand that the Song is really the Song of Growing…but I would hardly say it is -justice-. They did not steal *angreal, they were given angreal. They perhaps did not succeed in their mission to protect the *angreal (the Jenn Aiel at Rhuidean did that part), but they are the only group to have succeeded in the primary mission of keeping the Way of the Leaf. No other group held to the final instruction of the Aes Sedai.
@38SPC
Seed singing days are not necassarily over. Rand was most certainly singing plants to life many times in ToM and AMoL.
Personally, the one thing that I’m grateful for with the loss of Jordan is that there won’t be any more novels about what happens next. The story is done, and the idea of more stories about Mat and Fortuona (still hate the new name) bugged the living hell out of me. The story is done. Nothing else that might be told could really live up to the majesty and the epic nature of the original.
I would much prefer to read the other novels set on a totally different world/ universe that RJ had been planning. The loss of those stories are what kills me (to say nothing of the way these last books would have actually been written). Anything else set in the world of The Wheel of Time would have only served to over farm a field that now should lie fallow.
I would have liked to know what Moraines 3 questions and requests were of each of the finns… I dont think we found these out, all of them at least.
Lots of other things too, I dont want a pretty wrap up where everyone lives happily ever after but, some sort of summary of the months/years to come would have been nice and would have satisfied ALOT more people imo.
Like all of you I would have really liked to see a bit more denouement… lots of things left unresolved. But at the same time I am so happy/gratefull to finally see the major outcomes that it doesnt bother me too much (plus something tells me Jordan might have gone on writing this series for another 10 books before ending it if he hadn’t tragically died)
My #1 want to read is also the Seanchan plot line… did Hawkwing talk to Tuon, what happens to Mat, how does Tuon take back her empire etc. I dont think Min would have gone back to the Seanchan. I see her heading after Rand, but who knows.
#2 is Rand… I cant see him leaving forever and never seeing his children. He will want to be a dad to his kids somehow I think. Maybe become a palace guard for Elayne?? Although I think he and Min are the most likely to stay together.
minor quibbles:
1. I wish Nakomi had been explained
2. I wish we had seen more of Shara and Damandred
3. I get why the tinkers didnt get the song… but it still bugs me. I wish Rand or loial had taught them to sing a growing song somehow.
I am casting my vote that the next piece of WoT related art needs to be that statue of Egwene.
Thanks for this post. Your suggestions for further stories resonated with me and what I would most like to see if the series continued.
To all you guys talking about the song, it never existed – it was just mythology created after 3000 years. Read RJ’s interview on the subject:
http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=872
My theory on Rand’s change after he beat the DO relates to the dreamshards he and Moridin played with during the book and the alternate futures he and the DO played with during the battle. Rand won that battle and CHOSE the alternate future he wanted, a future in which he cannot channel and nobody recognizes him. But because it’s a world of his creation, like with the dreamshards, he has the ability to exert some level of control over it.
Brentodd @37 and TalithaSedai @39:
I have to respectfully but sincerely disagree in re Tinkers. There were in fact 3 groups if you re-read the chapters in The Shadow Rising. One is group becomes the Aiel we know today, based on those children that went to rescue kidnapped girls. One group become the Jenn Aiel, “the only true Aiel”, and they continued on their journey, eventually settling in Rhuidean. The other group were members of the Aiel, that got tired of looking for the place of safety, remembered the songs they used to sing, and wanted to go and find that. So they took the wagons they had, and left, constantly searching for that song. They are the Tinkers today.
The mission was about them staying safe, and continuing to serve the Aes Sedai someday. They abandoned that, they abandoned their people, in order to go searching for a song.
@22 FTHurley:
Amen to that. I agree that Rand in the last scene felt a bit off, almost too simple compared to the complexity he’d grown into in Towers. There’s plenty of ways to retcon that away – most simply, that it’s got to be a bit unsettling to find yourself in a new body, and it’ll take some getting used to! Euphoria at no longer being in constant physical agony could lead one to rash behavior like just running off… – and yet still it seems wrong for him to just head out the door.
From what I’ve read so far, it seems like most of us would like to imagine that Rand decides in time to settle down (somehow) with his ladies and his kids. And that’s how it’s going to happen in my mind. But maybe I’m biased, as a father myself – having my son in my life is one of the best blessings ever, and I wouldn’t want to imagine Rand passing that by. He certainly seems excited by the idea of becoming a parent earlier in the book when talking to Elayne.
Although… I wonder how much of the characterization of Rand in those scenes with Elayne is from Jordan, and how much from Sanderson. Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t Sanderson have several kids while Jordan never did? That might lead to different approaches to writing about parenthood for each…
Also, I agree with Chris on his list of the top stories for next chapters… On the White/Grey Tower storyline, I’m in particular interested to know what will become of Egwene’s planned training exchange between the Aes Sedai, Wise Ones, and Windfinders. Will that last under Cadsuane’s leadership? Cads actually is a better candidate than most AS for understanding the potential benefits of Wise One ways…
Then, what about the male side of things? With the taint gone and Sightblinder bound for good until the 2nd age rolls around again on the Wheel, there’s no need for male Aiel to head north (not, of course, that heading north turned out to be a good idea in the first place. Alas…) So, I presume over time there will now grow up a parallel system of male Wise Ones. (er, Wise Guys?) Likewise, with the Windfinders enjoying their newfound abilities to no longer hide from the White Tower, I don’t see male channeler Sea Folk as readily joining the Black Tower. So will there develop multiple parallel male channeling associations? Or will a unified and reformed Black Tower gather all in?
Huh, I just thought of something else. If the Aes Sedai don’t choose to reform their Oath-taking sooner, they’re certainly going to see the incentives differently in a couple centuries when elder Aes Sedai start nearing their ends while comparably-old Ashaman are merely middle aged…
@@@@@ 42. Neuralnet
I agree with your first quibble that Nakomi could have been more explained although I beleive that was definitely her (after all, who else could it have been really?) that Rand was speaking to when he left the cave. When he speaks to her (Nakomi) and she fades away, to me clearly she is an Avatar of the Creator set to give subtle
guidance on events, hence her approving of how is sealed up the prison
the way the Creator made it at the beginning of the Creation, wholly and completely. Giving her (or his, the Creator’s) final blessing, so to speak. Especially since Rand SAYS to her “I see the answer now” and then talks about the Aelfinn, it seems obvious that he realizes who she is as well — after all if she was a random old Aiel woman how the eff should she know what an Aelfinn is???
However, @@@@@ 41. Wayneo — Yes, possible my number one quibble was that we never found out Rand’s exact 3 questions – as far as I remember the only one was “How can I win the Last Battle?” to which they replied “To live, you must die” which is pretty self-explanatory in light of the ending.
SO — back to what he says to Nakomi — what WAS the wrong question he asked the Aelfinn, that has to do with “choice”????
Final (supremely small in the grand scheme of things) quibble is wondering if burned out can be Healed the the same as stilling – I was DYING to have Nynaeve heal Setalle Anan and have her do something cool channeling in the last battle.
All in all, loved the book – it could have been two though and answered so many more of my questions!!
Love to hear any thoughts on this…
Outcomes,
The pattern that RAND created is one where the people are given free will and choice. ‘IN ORDER FOR THIS TO WORK HE HAD TO RIDE INTO THE SUNSET OTHERWISE ALL BETS ARE OFF’
He will only be able to return when they have forgotten him, or no longer need to rely on him,
Perrin and Faile now rule Saldea.
Tam is the Steward of the Two Rivers and becomes the first Prince of the Sword of Andor wielding Justice.
Cadsuane and Logain are linked from wayback, and as she was the only person that released him they will work together.
Make some stories from that
Mad Mike
I’d REALLY like more stories. Jordan created a great world, and I want to explore it more. If we never get more books, I’ll be pretty sad.
W. @51 – Sorry then because Brandon & Harriet have both explicitly stated that this is the end. There is an encyclopedia coming out next year but that is all.
I’m going back and rereading the series now, and it’s been a while since I read some of the books so forgive me if this has already been addressed, but I’ve always wondered if Olver wasn’t Gaidal Cane. After all, didn’t Mat always think he was funny looking, and he didn’t have any screen time after the horn was blown at The Last Battle. Although he was at Falme when Mat blew it wasn’t he? I don’t know, just an idle thought.
Toryx @40:
Indeed. IMHO the Outriggers were a terrible idea. Not only did they seemingly mandate survival of certain characters, but they prompted RJ to eshew any hint of solution Re: Seanchan.
I really thought that the fact that “The Dragon breaks all chains” was supposed to come into play, but nope.
Because I really don’t see them holding to the pact for long, given their present attitude towards channelers, towards treaties and considering how many rulers of the Coalition _are_ channelers.
Tuon’s nonchalant explanation re: treaties not being binding for an Empress and how she suggested treating Egwene as just another queen for now gave me a chilling initmation about how Seanchan _really_ was united and those channeling rulers overthrown – by treachery. Not because they were all horrible tyrants (though some may have been) and their people didn’t support them, but because they thought that they could trust the Empire…
Which is another reason why I hate the re-conquest of Seanchan notion, too. Seanchan would be too big, too powerful and have less reason to at least somewhat adopt the Randlandian worldview.
I mean, slavery – both of channelers and non-channelers is not their only problem, their social structure is clearly built along the same lines as that of the DFs, what with obligatory assassination attempts, only “the best” getting to survive, etc.
So, what stories in WoT universe would I want?
Something set during the time of Trolloc Wars, certainly. Tragedy and heroism and the White Tower at it’s height, as well as terrifying first appearance of the BA. Would be great, more interesting than AoL/War of Power, IMHO. Could feature Gaidal and Brigitte for a bonus.
I’d also like to see a story showing how/if Aviendha’s vision future is going to be avoided. Preferrably involving White and Black Tower and hopefully their raprochement/unification.
Moiraine – somehow don’t see her settling down for long, it is not in her nature.
She was shamefully shafted in AMoL and the whole second half of the series and I’d like to think that there is more grand adventure in store for her.
Brentodd @37:
IIRC, back in KoD Min did forsee massive death-toll among commoners in Tear, including children. Since Tear was not raided by the Shadow, I can only assume that it is going to be from famine.
Re: Nym, they were living ter’angreal, so assume that some combination of channeling and singing by those who have the Voice might replicate the effect, somewhat. Too bad that Rand didn’t teach the seed songs to the Aiel and/or required them to give up their ridiculous taboo…
@@@@@ 53 mriggs – RJ explicited stated that Olver is NOT Gaidal Cain.
Time in Tel’aran’rhiod is different but does NOT go backwards – so we saw him there when Nynaeve first spoke to Birgitte, and then he got spun out – Olver was already long born (9 years) ago. He is an infant somewhere, which is also why he couldn’t come when the Horn called since he was a mortal.
There is another theory that Birgitte being spun out at the end might mean she is one of Melaine’s twin girls since she was near her time. I think that is a cool one actually.
What happens now that Elayne knows Birgitte has been spun out? Is she going to try to find her? Keep her eyes and ears on the lookout for a young blonde girl who has a thing for the bow? Have those same people looking for an ugly boy? In a decade or two, look for a young couple, one ugly, one blonde with a bow? Recruit them into her Queen’s Guard? Tell them who they are? Make them her warders?
I think that JordanCon this year will be really interesting. Does anyone know if the new BWB coming out in the next year or so is going to have any little blurbs about the 4th age?
One of the things I thought about after finishing the book is how this ending is very much set up to continue the world in another way. RJ clearly had more stories to tell in Randland and the open endedness of AMOL clearly shows that. I hope one day we will get another book, though I wouldn’t say that more than a 33% possibility.
I do wish we got a 30 years later segment. If this truely was the last book I am somewhat depressed that many of the high level plot points will never get closure.
I am actually trying to figure out if I will ever read this series again. At least on my own. So much of it is set up to continue and it just …..ends.
Throughout my reading of the series I could never understand what exactly a person was feeling when their Warder/Aei Sedai died, now I do. It feels as if a part of me is missing, and that I have to mourn yet I am can’t help but hope one day these questions will be answered in some official book or Q and A session.
There’s a heavy emphasis on Talmanes’ wound/poisoning meaning he’s already dead – does this go on for three days, by any chance? (So fulfilling a quasi-predicti about Nynaeve.)
@42 RE: Sharans and Demandred:
Per signing reports, the short story in the upcoming Anthology Unfettered will deal with a series of deleted scenes surrounding Demandred and the Sharans
I’d go for a story about the Red Ajah, past and future. For the future, they’re obviously going to be closely associated with the Black Tower; it’ll be interesting to see if they end up all going for the double-bond or just change from ‘don’t bond’ to ‘bonds only channellers’. And for the past, well, Thom and Moiraine in full detective mode, hunting down the sisters that killed Thom’s son (probably after he refused to allow himself to be used as a false dragon. At least that’s always been my theory.)
I’d just like to see some more random adventures with different characters throughout the cities/nations. One thing that bugged me was that almost every character that had their own point of view was skinny/relatively young. Why not make a couple of chapters of people in different positions around the Seanchan or Sharans watching into what their leaders are doing, instead of being the leaders themselves. Just something to show how the world was working after, or maybe something many thousands of years later where another channeller tries to open the Bore again out of ignorance. Something maybe more about the Age of Legends so we understand some of the prophecies or “fragments” that have been described before hand.
Brandon hasn’t answered that one to my knowledge. It seems it was tossed in there to keep the pot simmering, so to speak.
Part of Jordan’s genius was that in real life, you never get to know everything about an event or experience, so he wanted to leave “unknowns”. If you have all aspects of a story resolved to your satisfaction, you are more likely to be truly “done” with that story. The unresolved details are like tiny holes, always in the back of our minds, always wishing to be filled.
As for Rand and his pipe, I find it harder to imagine that he found a ter’angreal which could read thoughts and light on command, than that an ability or two rubbed off from his visit among the threads of Creation.
Whoa. Some folks think that the world we see in the Epilogue is of Rand’s creation? No. He didn’t create a universe. He and the DO showed each other “possible” universes based on their actions and choices in the Battle, but whichever of those universes ended up turning into reality would have been outcomes, not creations.
Rand is not the Creator. No human is.
Who are the antogonist left?
Sharans
Seanchan vs Mainland kingdoms
Seanchan vs Seanchan homeland
Seanchan vs Sharan border fight?
Maybe there are pockets of left over darkfriends, and the strange wild dominating the Blight still. Perhaps something like Rebuilding of Malkier from the previous Blight monster residence. Think of those post-Star Wars stories of weird/fantastic/alien worlds.
I don’t know if Game of Houses for the next generation would be interesting with the kids of Elayne, Perrin, Aviendha if she gets knocked up, and Tuon/Mat’s kid(s). It’s like circa Avatar Korra after the Aang books.
I was excited about the possibilities of Mat/Tuon outrigger books, but this last book is a decent closure. Maybe because I kinda got burned how post-stories after the good Star Wars trilogy got saturated and lost focus or just went all over.
Hey, maybe BS can make a link-leap from Channeling .. Mistborn.
Two things I would like to see: 1)Moridin/Rand just happening to show up where Lan is and challenging him to a sparring duel. Should be an interesting matchup now that Rand again has two hands and all of LTT’s skill with the sword. Of course he would have to sneak up to this meeting without Moiraine seeing him because she knows Moridin’s face.
2) Egwene in Teleranrhiod.
If I never get to see either of these in print, it’s OK. I’ve written them in my mind.
Wait – Rand wouldn’t have to sneak to his duel challenge to avoid Moiraine. It would be to avoid Nyneave.
Anyone ever come across the six-word story challenge? Because I think Chris just nailed it:
DEMANDRED AND I WILL HUG FOREVER.
More seriously, I’d like to see Nakomi explained as much as anyone. I like the idea that she’s another rule-bending Hero of the Horn. There have to be a few the world forgot.
@40 Toryx
I agree with you. The story is DONE. Let’s move on to explore other fantasy world. I would rather WOT goes out on a high that it has now then for it to start getting ridicule or *heaven forbid – rethinking/reimagining like what is happening with Star Trek and those comic superheroes.
It would be really great to see what happens to the White and Back Towers in the future. Aviendha’s visions in ToM seemed to indicate that they remain separate. But I somehow don’t think so – what with the bonding and the entire Last Battle, there has to be some move towards, if not union, the two towers working together.
One interesting aside to this is how the towers will tie in with Rand’s universities. The White Tower has traditionally been a centre of learning and a repository of learning (as were the Aes Sedai in the Age of Legends). Since the Asha’man no longer think of themselves as merely weapons, it is likely that they too will begin more investigative and research oriented work. I wonder if Aes Sedai/Asha’man will also go to these universities.
I love all this speculation, and personally, I’d love to see some of these story lines fleshed out!
The future of the Aiel.
Mat/Tuon, and hopefully, her improving her attitude towards channelers.
The rebuilding of Randland.
Faile/Perrin
Lan/Nynaeve
The forging of a “gray” tower with both men and women working together, ala Androl and Pevara
Rands hand in things….if at all.
I love having my own fanatasies of what happens in this World, and I heartily disagree with those who thing Rand ran off on his ladies and families. Rand needs to escape from the group. He deserves some peaceful time, after all he has given up. Min feels the Bond. The ladies will find him, and he knows this. What influence he chooses to make in the future is the interesting question. Will he live a quiet life, with Min perhaps, visited by his other sister wives, who have other duties? Will he, at some point, advise The combined Towers? Elayne? Tuon? He has very valuble knowledge in that head. It would be a shame to lose it all.
I do like that it’s not tied up, so we can continue to question and Fantasize!
@22 FTHurley
I don’t know if we’ll ever find out for sure, but I think your analysis on those few, final paragraphs is probably damned close to the truth. It was just sort of… off. Slightly derpish, though I don’t mean that necessarily in a slanderous way. It’s just that Rand seemed kind of derpy. Golly gee whizz, darn tootin’, hayseed derpy. And after all he’d been through, all he’d seen, it just didn’t sit right. I dunno. I’m not really complaining — I enjoyed the book quite thoroughly — but I just wanted to chime in that I agree with ya.
@22FTHurley & 71moggle
My interpretation is that Rand at that point is “just Rand” as the text indicates — not the Dragon, no Lews Therin memories, but “just Rand” with all of Rand’s memories, which could mean his original personality would come back to the forefront. He’s what, 19 yrs old? As for his thoughts about Min, Elayne and Avi — this is the first time he’s been truly able to think about having a future with them without prospect of TLB or death around the corner, so maybe he’s finally realizing he’s got a very nice problem to deal with.
As for future stories, I am hoping the WOT encyclopedia promised by Harriet will include some of the post-Last Battle details we are looking for, assuming RJ left some notes :) DO NOT want any third parties producing their own stories — i.e. a TV series as someone mentioned. And dont forget, there is a “deleted scene” coming soon in a fantasy anthology called “Unfettered.” Makes me wonder how many other “deleted scenes” there are.
TorChris-
The only things I would like to see that were not mentioned so far (but could be interesting) would be a bit on Olver growing up…after all, he is the Hornsounder now…must be a great pick-up line at the local tavern…once he’s old enough to have a drink that is.
Also, I like the thought of Moiraine and Thom and maybe a few others tracking any escaped Dreadlords along with view points from said Dreadlords as to their motivations/machinations. That assumes they still want to be/to do eeeevvvviiiiilllll of course.
Also, as some have suggested, stories from AOL or the Trolloc Wars would be great.
And yes, I know this is all idle speculation as it has been clearly stated that there will be no other stories besides the one Brandon is donating to the anthology later this year. But here’s to hoping!!!!
Like most of you, I want MOAR!!
That said, I totally respect Harriet’s decision here. That doesn’t mean she can’t ever change her mind…George Lucas always swore there wouldn’t be sequels past RotJ, and look where we are. As time passes (and legends fade to-wait sorry), it’s possible Harriet will decide that some carefully controlled follow up stories would be a nice way of keeping RJ’s memory alive. I would be shocked if she didn’t already know some of these plot lines, I mean, what else did they sit around the dinner table and talk about ?!?!? (I’m kidding, of course)
Think of, say, 10 years from now, Harriet gets the urge to re-visit Randland so she picks another good author candidate ala Sanderson and commissions him/her to write trilogy or something. Could happen. Keep hope alive!
I too felt like we were seriously shortchanged in terms of screentime/impact of Moraine’s return.
Given that we were warned ahead of time that numerous threads would remain unresolved, I don’t have serious problems with questions staying open.
But I would like to have seen the Senchan outriggers. Assuming that Mat can get Tuon to abide by her deal with (now dead) Egwene, demane should be given their choice of being freed or remaining collared. Anybody want to bet which way Suffa (Elaida) and Moghedien would have chosen? And I’ll bet that RJ planned on both of them getting loose and providing opposition to Tuon/Mat’s plans.
I also think that once Tuon got a little better understanding of circles, she might decide that she could use her resources better by abandoning the a’dam and using circles instead. (Though I’m sure she also would really like a binder -oath rod – to enforce her own set of oaths).
@22FTHurley “he (Rand) does after all look like one of the Forsaken now, and that could be an issue”
Yes, Rand now looks like one of the Forsaken, but so what? It’s not like everyone in Randland studied their photos in their grade school text books or saw them every night on CNN. (And Moridin was Ishy in a new body so the textbook photo wouldn’t apply anyway.)
From the text, who has seen Moridin to recognize his face as a Forsaken and is still alive? Moghy and Graendal? Nyneave and Moraine? I think that’s about it. Maaaybeee one or two surviving darkfriends from a DF social? And how many guests from a DF social are going to be coming up to him on the street and saying, “hey, guy, don’t you remember me from back when you were Na’blis?”
So I don’t think looking like Moridin is going to be a big deal in his life. (Now, going around as a 6’5′ Aiel with Dragon Tattoos, one hand, and a Heron scarr, all of which had been seen by thousands of people, THAT would have been a big deal. At least for ten or twenty years. – But there will be a large number of one-handed war vets: sword and axe battles get messy.)
Personally, I would like to see the occasional short story, or short self-contained pieces, but I know that is constrained by the notes and material that RJ left, that Brandon has polished, and that Harriet will give permission for. The Demandred story in Unfettered will be a nice aperitif to read, although what I would really like to read is the next episode of the story of Birgitte and Gaidal Cain.
Blocksmith1@73 I do like your idea about Moiraine and Thom tracking down the remaining Dreadlords. It sounds exactly like the two of them to disappear off into obscurity, leaving only the occasional Dreadlord corpse behind. I’m just sorry we didn’t get to see Siuan and Gareth get married and trying to figure out how to live when not actually occupied in saving the world.
An unusual (some might say loony) suggestion re: Moghedien
I’m torn between wishing Moghedien the (very-well-deserved) worst (since she is the final Forsaken and just an all-around bad person) and struggling with her ultimate “I-wouldn’t-wish-such-a-thing-on-my-worst-enemy” fate as a damane.
Although I’m not as universally disgusted by all things Seanchan as some of my fellow WoT rereaders are (the Seanchan have a society that 1) uses a caste system, and 2) unashamedly employs the institution of slavery. I don’t like it and it sucks but I believe that we still have societies today that do something similar to either one or both of those things in present day), I still think what the Seanchan do to channelers (not to mention da’covale) is wrong, and so I found myself *gasp* feeling bad for Moghedien.
(Yup; I
saidwrote it.)So, in my head, Moghedien’s story has not concluded. I believe that the a’dam should not limit the abilities of a Dreamer and T’A’R adept. I wonder, therefore, if Moghedien would still be able to manipulate dreams and T’A’R.
Put another way, I wonder if Moghedien can still enter other folks dreams or pull them into her dream or pull them into a dream shard. Can Dreamers use Compulsion in their (or someone else’s) dreams that could last beyond the dream? Could Dreamers ever pull others into T’A’R? Didn’t Lanfear either do that or boast that she could?
I raise these questions because I could see Moghedien actively striking out at her captors and potentially doing some serious damage to the various suldam that she interacts with, if not the leaders of the Seanchan empire. Or, maybe her familiarity with ter’angreal would allow her to (in a slowly and circumspectly manner, of course) look for potential flaws or weaknesses in the restrictions of the a’dam.
Maybe Moghedien figures out how to negate/escape an a’dam and (unintentionally, of course) demonstrates to other captive damane how to do so as well. The weakness of the a’dam goes public, and the a’dam no longer is the potential looming threat over all of the free channelers in Randland that it currently is.
Yes, I know that Moghedien was captured by an a’dam before and didn’t do any of these things (except give Nynaeve and/or Elayne nightmares, I believe). Yes, Moghedien is a coward who usually lays low and doesn’t stick her neck out unless she’s fairly certain she either won’t get caught or can get away. Yes, Moghedien has demonstrated in the past that she would lay down and grovel before taking any active step to liberate herself from capture/enslavement.
But I would suggest that all of that was true before the Bore was sealed and the Dark One was fully imprisoned again; when Moghedien still had the chance of becoming nae’blis and obtaining ultimate power was still a possible outcome. Now, Moghedien has nothing to look forward to other than a life full of centuries of servitude and dehumanization, ended only by her death. There is no one or nothing out there that can change her lot in life, other than herself.
With her back to the proverbial wall like this, I wonder if Moghedien wouldn’t take some chances that she otherwise never would have done. What does she have left to lose?
Anyway, I think this would be another cool possibility to occur in the WoTverse. Moghedien, the antihero. Of course, then Moghedien would be free, and Moiraine or someone else (Nynaeve, maybe; wouldn’t that be great symmetry) would have to ultimately hunt her down and bring her to justice. But it would end the slavery of channelers in the WoTverse. Moghedien would have been good for something…
Sushisushi @77:
Why would they want to disappear into obscurity? Because they are older than Our Heroes? Thom, at least has already spent a dozen or so years in obscurity prior to the books, I am sure he’d now like wide audience for his magnus opus.
I am also kinda hoping that Moiraine would finally overturn the moronic OP strength hierarchy in the White Tower, which has been responsible for so much damage to the effectiveness of Aes Sedai. Maybe she would be Cadsuane’s successor, eh?
Oh, and I forgot to mention one story I’d like to see above all else:
The Saga of Verin.
How she stumbled upon becoming a BA, cat and mouse game of finding out the full membership, while minimizing damage, if possible, but not falling under suspicion. A WoT spy thriller extraordinaire.
KiManiak @78:
Wow, what a great idea!
BTW, is it just me, or was Moghedien in part responsible for Masema (and thus PLOD)? Masema had visions of Rand and now we have learned that she specialized in imitating other people, including men… Does the timing work?
@78: Wait a minute, doesn’t
1. Enter T’A’R physically rather than by dreaming
2. Will collar off your neck while nobody present in T’A’R’ is holding the other end.
3. Profit!
Work perfectly well? And as a dreamer, can’t Moggie do step one without channelling?
It’s just a wishful thinking, unfortunately, but all of the 5 ideas in the post sound good.
For me personally I would love most the future adventures of Moiraine and Thom. No obscurity for them, except if they need low profile for some sneaky business, “you can call me Alys” stuff. Obviously Mo will eventually become the Amyrlin, after Logain or Androl, after 200-300 years.
Absent in half of the series and somewhat short-changed in AMOL, yeah, could’ve done with more Moiraine…
The above ain’t happening but I hope in the forthcoming Encyclopedia they include some timeline or bulletpoint, whatever, list of the early events of the Fourth Age and the fate of the major characters. Maybe something more from RJ’s notes, regarding the future and present in-world.
E.g. in the entry for Andor there is a paragraph of it’s fate some years into the 4th Age… And so for other places and characters.
I cannot BELIEVE that Egwene died! I NEVER saw that coming at all! I’m still reeling from it now.
I don’t think Rand riding away is forever. He will want to keep to anonymity largely. I also think this lighting of the pipe may come from a total understanding of the pattern now, something that trancends the One Power perhaps? But Rand is what, 21 at the very oldest? He has been given his life back. I’d find it very odd if he didn’t want to ride off and kick back for a while! Besides, Min, Elayne and Aviendha are all aware he is alive, as is Cadsuane and Nynaeve suspects as well. That news will reach Perrin, Mat and Tam eventually.
I see perhaps a world where Tuon is stranded on this side of the Aryth Ocean? Perhaps the war that comes with the Seanchan is with the rebels who have sezied her throne in Seandar and not from Tuon/Fortuona at all?
Maybe now the Red Ajah are going to dedicate themselves to the hunting down of rogue channelers? Male or female?
Perhaps male channelers among the Aiel will be put to work policing the Dragon’s Peace (optional on the provision they don’t want to study at the Black Tower of course?)
This won’t be the last we see of Rand. Although there may be an issue with him and his 3 women. It’s Rand’s soul, but not his body, will that cause the love to fizzle out? He may keep contact with his children regularly (as he might be able to shift, Tel’aran’rhiod style?) Although Moridin is a good looking guy, so perhaps this obstacle can be overcome?
Who will be Elayne’s First Prince of the Sword? Galad? But she is not too fond of him. Will Cadsuane accept the Amyrlin’s stole? Will the Three Oaths persist? What with the detrimental effect the Oath Rod has on lifespan and the knowledge that oaths can be as easily removed as sworn. I think each one of us will just have to answer these mysteries in our heads!
@11. yadjmir
Read the history of the Kingdom of Denmark, the Holy Roman Empire, and the Schleswig-Holstein Question some time.
Very, very complicated. The Kingdom of Denmark held both duchies as Danish possessions, but Holstein was simultaneously a fief of the Holy Roman Empire and the Danish king was a prince of the Holy Roman Empire …
Then again, consider the plight of the Saxe-Gotha-Coburg family, monarchs in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, Dukes of Normandy (in the rump of the Duchy of Normandy that the Hundred years War left them – the Channel islands), etc, and monarchs of Hanover, one of the kingdoms of the Holy Roman Empire, subject to the Holy Roman Emperor and the Electors thereof. In spite of the fact that the British Empire at its height held far more power than the Holy Roman Empire ever did.
I kind of thought that the self-lighting pipe was his taveren-ness in action.
He isn’t ta’veren any longer.
Thom and Moiraine in full detective mode, hunting down the sisters that killed Thom’s son
Owyn was his nephew, not his son.
Who will be Elayne’s First Prince of the Sword?
Guybon. She already thought of bonding him.
Isiliel@79 Nothing at all to do with age, no! I was thinking more of M&T going undercover as a detective duo, investigating reports of rogue channellers and ferreting out the remaining Dreadlords through a combination of street smarts, charm and knowing how each other’s minds work. You’re right, though, I’m not sure how well deep cover would sit with Thom’s epic of the Dragon Reborn, though. Maybe his touring schedule could be their cover story for travelling the world?
I agree on wanting to hear the story of Verin and the Black Ajah, too. The other gap I would really like covered is Alanna’s story – what happened to her between disappearing from Tear on receipt of Verin’s note, to appearing injured in the Pit of Doom? Was she a Darkfriend or not, where did she run to, how did she get that wound? We got very few clues in AMoL, just that she was ‘to the north’, which could have been hiding out in the Borderlands, dodging through the Blight, or having tea with Moridin in the Town, for all we know. I still hope that we might get her story as another ‘deleted scene’, because it has to have been edited out for space reasons. I’m sure RJ knew (and Brandon knows) what happened to her, and I wish we could find out. Maybe a signing question for someone lucky enough to be on the right continent?
Alviarin @@@@@ 83
Also S-C-G family members were kings of Bulgaria for a few decades up to the end of WWII.
Otherwise, yes, such examples as you give are numerous. Most often with the Holy Roman Empire, but not only. E.g. English kings having lands in France and “owing homage” to the French king.
@stargazer – I also initially was bothered by Rand’s lack of concern for his children, but then remembered that when Mellar was threatening to tear the children out of Elayne, they specifically made the point that they were 6 months along and therefore could probably live but would need weaves, etc. to do so. At the time I thought it was an odd thing to mention in such detail. Now I have to wonder if Sanderson didn’t throw that in purposely to let us know that Rand has a good three months to wander before his children are born, so we wouldn’t think he was being a terrible father.
Nice, but who cares? Team Jordan has made it abundantly clear that there will be no more novels. Frankly, that really ticks me off, but it’s Harriet and Brandon’s decision to make. So there’s no point in worrying about all the many things that didn’t get resolved or could continue. Case closed. Might as well hope for more Tolkien books. I’m glad I lived just long enough to read the last book, against all odds, so at least I have some closure after all the time and energy invested in this series.
Did anyone else think that either Elayne or Avienda lit Rand’s pipe for him? I don’t think Rand has the ability to think things into existence and he can no longer channel. I think he’s just an ordinary person now. Was there any clarification from Brandon Sanderson on that?
Also, the books that Rand, “just Rand” awoke in the tent. Does that mean that his memories of Lewis Therin are gone as well? Things to think about.
MORE PREQUELS!!!
Artur Hawking and the Seanchan empire — birth of his dynasty, the story behind the a’dam, their omens, myths, prophecies — i’m sure they’re not all bad folk
Stories of the Heros of the Horn — Brigitte and Gaidal alone probably have loads of material
Jain Farstrider / Noal — his roots, where he went, what was his deal with the Shadow to become “immortal”? who wrote his book???
Matt’s many past lives…. the possibilities are endless!
The Best Story I Have Ever Read
I am also sad there will be no more WOT. I would like for the story to continue for a while. I read every post and like a lot of the storylines being discussed.
Instead of a cold turkey ending I need more
As MoRandin rides away he sees all the people starving and has to help
There’s no food available so he has to do the apple orchard thing everyday everywhere he goes.
All available channeler’s must help also. This must happen now.
This was not a local problem so the Sharans are also starving
All of their channeler’s are not dead so here they come.
They must be contained.
I want more Mat & Tuon. I want to know how Tuon likes it the first time she’s collared. Will she free the damane then? Is Mat going to help her retake her homeland. When they have children will they channel?
I want Graendel tried and beheaded.
I want Min to follow MoRandin
Oh well,sigh.
Re: TamIam @91:
“I want to know how Tuon likes it the first time she’s collared. Will she free the damane then?”
and RE: my comment @75 about Suffa and Mohgy being freed and being antigonists in the Mat-Tuon outrigger.
I could just see them fighting to be the ones to put Tuon’s head in the noose (a’dam). Heck, Tuon might even get a scar on her neck to match Mat’s.
Hey everyone has done a great job of hitting almost everthing I want to know about as well. One thing I want to know about though is the relationship if any that will happen between the Seanchans ogier and the local ogiers. How did the Seanchan ogiers survive the breaking and not having a stedding to live in.
Vote also for Tam’s story, leaving the (shire) farm and learning to fight.
@13 Yes I also noticed Loials song and wondered if that was the song sought but I have read plenty of reasons why that is not so by now.
Does anyone else maybe think that Olver could be Gaidal reborn? He’s the right amount older than Brigette and the right amount of ugly..
@@@@@ 94
Olver is not Gaidal reborn, it’s been officially stated by RJ himself, I think. There is speculation that one of Asha’man’s kids maybe him. It was mentioned that the kid was very ugly though there was no need instory to say so. I don’t think we’ll ever learn for sure.
But Gaidal is not Olver, fact.
Gaidal Cain has been born. We were introduced to him already. It’s Asha’man Jur Grady’s son.
Here are two that I’ve always thought (well at least since Path of Daggers) that I’d like to see. Not really in any way related to aMoL except in a very vague way.
A: Small Aiel boy orphaned by the Last Battle, grows up on Lake Rhuidean and is fascinated by the Lake. Plays in it swims in it even builds what boats he can from the materials at hand. Most Aiel are very wary of the lake still, and he’s considered quite weird, and is shunned and made fun of. When he’s 12 he learns he can channel and runs off to the Sea Folk and eventually becomes the first male Windfinder. Along the way he invents catamarans and wind surfing.
B: Last Battle is over. Bode has survived, as a newly shawled Aes Sedai, she goes around using her strength in Earth to help rebuild the devastated cities and country side. She meets up with an Ashaman and after initial conflict teams up with him. They eventually form the first coed Ajah, the construction Ajah, studying with Ogier to learn good civil engineering principles, and gradually spread out over the land.
I’ve spent this entire series wanting to get my hands on a copy of “The Travels of Jain Farstrider.” Characters have been reading it since TEOTW and Jain himself had a role to play up until the end of AMOL.
eleniel @90
Jain made no deal with the shadow. He was captured by Ishamael and Compelled. Up to his death, there were things he still could not remember, though he felt he should have been able to. Anytime he tried, he’d get confused.
TamIAm @91
I believe Rand is unable to do “the apple orchard thing”. The text explicitly refers to him at the end as Rand, just Rand. This more than implies that he is no longer in possession of the Dragon nature. And that is as it should be. The Dragon has completed his purpose, there is no value in forcing Rand to continue to carry that mountain. At least he can still play the flute, it would have been nice to include mention of Thom’s old flute case on his back as he rode away.
Regarding Moghedien, who is to say that she would still be pursuing evil with the same intent? With the Dark One sealed perfectly away, she has nobody to obey, and she is no longer under anyone’s thumb. With Moridin dead, with the Pit of Doom shut tight, I suspect that her Mindtrap has been neutralized as well.
With all that she’s been through, if she got free of the a’dam, I think she would be smart enough to just go where she could never be recognized, and use her skills to become a successful merchant. The history says she had been a swindler before turning to the Shadow, so she would have to have some skill in that field.
Who believes that Olver would really throw the Horn of Valere into the ocean? That kid?
What about the re-emergence of human awareness of the tower of gengi and the aelfinn and the eilfinn? I’d like to see Olver go into the tower like he plans to, though maybe for a different reason than revenge, and using the horn as his implement of music. What would happen there?
What about Malkier not being bound by the dragon’s peace?
I was surprised when he sealed the dark one away and not killed him, as well as the no dark one future vision. The whole book he was going on about the dark one being apart from the pattern, and lets not forget the humans made up their own, separate evil from the dark one: Mashadar. I thought that Shadar logoth’s existence was proof that people had free will to choose between good and evil without the dark one getting involved.
I was under the impression that Rand would kill the dark one and seal away Mordeth in its place, the seed of pattern-wrought evil, having the long-term effect of creating another dark one by the time the second age came again, giving them something to rediscover.
So now the Seanchan have Moghedian, maybe that is where they get all the ter’angreals in Avihendas vision. And now the Aiel have Graendal to mine for information. Kind of to balance out the power and change the vision?
I just finished last night, 4am, so details are fuzzy. Am I making this up or did Min have a viewing that Tuon would die soon? Which puts the future of Mat, Min, Seander, and any treaties that may or may not have been signed in jeopardy? Also, while I found the Seanchan really tedious before, something about BS writing really piqued my interest in them. Well done, sir.
I wish that each of the characters that died had been given a small paragraph so we could see them going out. With heroism, with grief, or with whatever.
Also, I wanted just to say thank you for the efforts it took to finish this story. Thanks to those that made it happen.
What puzzled me in the ending of AMOL was Rand’s assumption of Moridin’s body. As far as I can recall, this body-switching ability was confined elsewhere in the series to the dark side, so it’s not an obvious solution to Rand’s problem of ‘getting away from it all’. And presumably Moridin wasn’t a 19-year old youth—I don’t know how much of Ishamael was in him, but the latter certainly wasn’t a teenager, either.
Anyone got any thoughts on this?
Definitely the story I would like to see most is Rand’s, followed closely by Mat’s. I refuse to believe he just has a magical pipe :) My first impression was that he is now wielding the ‘light’ instead of the saidin, saidar, or the true power, as a result of doing so in the climatic battle. So basically just mucking about with the threads of the pattern, which can do stuff that none of the three derived powers could do – for instance actually recreating the prison whole instead of just patching over the bore. And that’s… pretty freaking awesome. He can’t reach either of the other powers, but he’s tapped 24/7 into raw creation. So it’s basically like he’s in tel’aran’rhiod (sp) all the time.
The ending WAS a bit weird, but to me only in how he was wondering ‘which’ woman he wanted, considering it’d already been pretty well laid out that they were all three laying a collective claim on him, and he seemed okay with that (imgainge that! :D). The whole thing with just ‘walking off’ that seemed to cheese off a lot of people was kinda silly – his ladies knew the deal, obviously, and it’s not like he’s just going to hang around at his own funeral as one of the forsaken. The whole point of the body swapping thing (which it seemed implied that he set up pretty purposefully and thoroughly with them) was that he simply couldn’t live any sort of life as the dragon reborn after the last battle. He’d spend every waking minute trying to minister to the demands of world powers, be constantly fawned over by most everyone he met, and probably dodging assasination attempts from just about everyone else, certainly a lot of ticked off darkfriends, dreadlords, etc. What’s her name ‘helped him die’ so that he COULD have some sort of family life. All his girlfriends have the ability to create gateways, so his contemplation of travel (even assuming he means beyond the time he’ll need to lay low and keep away from familiar places to keep from arousing suspicions) isn’t exactly a problem, completely ignoring the fact that he can probably shift wherever he bloody well pleases at this point. Other than the whole bit about wanting them to follow him, the rest made perfect sense.
The Shara thing also has some real potential because – as far as I can tell – he basically landed them in his first ‘counter’ to Shaitan’s evil futures. Which means that the nations of the dragon’s peace are going to still be doing ‘peacekeeping’ operations in Shara in a HUNDRED FREAKING YEARS. I believe that world was set on the hundred year anniversery right? Not only that, but it’s not like it’s going to be a cakewalk – they specifically implied that there is serious military action STILL ongoing in shara at that time, by using it to deride the little squabbles they had in the lands of the peace, but it’s been going on so long that noone even seems to take it into account. Shara is, basically, afghanistan. And they’re gonna be in there for a HUNDRED YEARS. They outta just… I dunno… Source Nuke that shit and get it over with.
But, yes please, more Rand.
Also am I reading it right that the Fourth Age is in reality the First age, the buildup to the technology and knowledge of the power that exists in the Second Age (which is probably demarkated by the great cataclysmic, mildly dark-one initiated war that ends up uniting the world under one utopia-ish society), or are there meant to be a lot more ages implied in between? Because they seem to dovetail into a nice circle thar.
Grometz @96 – Gaidal Cain had better not turn out to be Gadren Grady. Rand thought the kid was four years old when he first saw them at the Farm, less than two months after Cain disappeared from TAR.
(I do have a theory about this, though.)
All his girlfriends have the ability to create gateways
When did Min learn to channel?
I’d like to see a Tam Al’Thor prequel. He was a bit of a bad-ass in this last book.
Moridans body is relatively young…not much older than Rand. There is a dreamshard sequence in about chapter 2 or 3 of AMoL where Rand and Moridan converse, and Rand states that Moridan is young, handsome, dark haired and the same height. So at least he’s still attractive. ;-)
As for the switching. How he did it is a mystery, and I would’ve liked to have seen that. But we do know they were very connected, more and more so as time went by. When Moridan cuts his hand in Shayol Ghul, Rand drops the sword. By picking it up and using it, Moridan opens himself to be taken completely, as per Min’s viewing. I think Rand just took the opportunity, to have a whole body, not punctured and painful, and to be anonymous.
Min can not Travel, but I’m sure her sister wives will help her out there. Maybe she will spend most of her time with Rand, as Aviendha and Elayne have other alligences and obligations, and will no doubt, come and go.
I do foresee a future for Rand, and would love to see a story about it. Could he be a secret advisor to Cadsuane, while she tries to unite the White and Black Towers? Rand does have many memories from the AoL to impart.
I love his one-ness with the Pattern! So Zen.
And a prequel about Tam would be great too.
I found myself quite unsatisfied at the end of AMOL. Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely loved it! It was largely an emotional reaction because of how intricate and lovely the characters are. There are so MANY of them! There were too many holes left open, never to be closed. I wish there had been more of an epilogue to close some of the story lines. Sadly, there was not. After so many years with the wheel of time I was left with a sense of loss and frustration about those holes. I won’t go so far as to say it was poorly done because that’s not true. However, I feel there should have been more closure. Upon finishing, I have more questions than answers. Blood and bloody ashes I want more! ;)
there is allways FAN FIC i plan on writeing a full book continuing the story from where it ended and self publishing as THE WHEEL OF TIME BOOK 15
OMG! I’ve waited for 20 yrs for this storey to conclude. I have been stunned by the dramatic demise of characters and plot twists of others. Matt has entertained me too numerous to count with outbursts of laughter. But…the storey is not finished. It was well done but not complete. Previous comments have addressed the gaps, unexplained character appearances/non-appearances. As stated, ‘very well done indeed’ Mr. Sanderson. But this could have a 2 book event. I know Harriet wanted to provide the fans with a final completion of RJ’s great epic but there are still many questions unanswered. I didn’t get a full sense of closure. :-(
When Rand was captured whit ad’am we used TRUE POWER to free himself …
what if Mogedin use TRUE POWER also.
P.S. And what if you remmeber TRUE POWER was used first time in age of legends when bore on dark one’s prison was created..
So is this RLY end of 3-rd age ?
Predrag,
Since the DO was sealed away by Rand, no one can have access to the True Power. Also, I’m not sure that Moggy had access to it before.
Moghedien absolutely was given free access to the True Power.
~ Ch41, A Smile
But, as Predrag correctly states, once the prison is properly sealed, the True Power is unavailable.
Ah yes, my mistake. This is just before a Gateway opened behind her and the Dragons opened fire from it. Also, it is I that stated that the True Power is unavailable after the DO was sealed away.
I didn’t have a problem with Rand as he rode off into the figurative sunset, for two reasons. First, and most importantly, we’re seeing Rand with all the pressure of saving the world removed from his shoulders. He gave up the guilt at the deaths he was responsible for, and put the Dark One back in prison. He doesn’t need to think about Lews Therin’s memories anymore, and he gets to be Rand the young sheepherder. Second, if RJ wrote this ending early on, maybe it was before taking into account everything that happened to Rand along the way (wasn’t WoT supposed to be a trilogy originally, or am I making that up?). I’m OK with reverting back to the Rand we saw in TEotW.
Echoing others, I’d like to know what happens to the Aiel. I’d like to see what Logain does with the Black Tower. My take is that his glory as foreseen by Min will come from building the Black Tower up as an active force for helping people (unlike the Third Age White Tower, which was concerning with influencing people). I’d like to see more backstory on Tam (we got a bit in AMoL). I’d like to see stories of the Heroes of the Horn. Then again, I’m OK not getting any of that. It’s sort of like real life; you don’t always get the whole story, and you don’t always find out how things end. I’d like to know more, but I don’t have any real quibbles with the way the series ended.
While I’d like to see a few more “Wheel of Time” stories myself – dealing not only with the issues raised in the original post, but some of those raised by the other commenters – I certainly don’t want to see the WoT franchise end up a sprawling mess like the Star Wars novelizations have. As I remarked in the spoiler review thread: “Better is the enemy of good enough.” Another novel (or series of novels) fleshing out the aftermath – or even the prologue – of the WoT might well unravel the pattern RJ wove and Brandon Sanderson finished. As it stands, A Memory of Light is a good enough conclusion to the series on its own.
Here’s a possible alternative or compromise: Perhaps Harriet and Tor might put together a couple of short-story/novella collections dealing with some of these issues, perhaps with the input of other authors? Meant as a companion to the WoT cycle rather than a continuation of the series? Done properly, this might mollify fans (like myself) who hate to see the story end, yet won’t dilute/screw up the core WoT storyline itself.
Let me start by congratulating Team Jordan for getting this done. So thrilled to get An ending.
I did have some issues with how the ending played out, mainly with the lack of deaths of the main characters relative to the deaths of so many others. Maybe I’m cynical. Maybe I’m into too much of the more ‘gritty’ fantasy series, but I felt a little fluffed that so many survived the Last Battle. Rand I was kind of ok with since it was so surprising. The one that bothered me most was that Perrin survived. I love Perrin. BUT. His death was foreshadowed heavily throughout the last few books, including a prophecy from the Shadow. And then for him to find Faile alive…Too much happy ending not enough sacrifice.
Am I the only one that thinks Olver is Gaidal Cain reborn? Birgitte is going find him and the two of them are going to have an awesome storyline to follow! It will be them that head over to Shara and have some sweet adventures!
@120 – No, you’re not the only one; there are still plenty of people who incorrectly assume that there is only one ugly child in the world of Randland.
Olver is far too old, as is Jur Grady’s oldest son Gadren. Even a Hero of the Horn can’t wander around Tel’Aran’Rhiod as himself at the same time he’s growing up as a little kid in the waking world. Gaidal Cain is, at this point, somewhere between 2 and 11 months old.
Wetlandernw,
Between 2 and 11 months old would fit Jur Grady’s new son wouldn’t it? Or am I misremembering him getting a letter from his wife announcing the birth of his second son recently?
The story I would like to see is the merging of the towers as a cohesive unit to be once again “the servants of all”
Jeff S.
I am only an egg
Jeff – Granted that I don’t remember everything in the book, I don’t think we actually saw the contents of the letter – but when we saw him upriver, he was carrying a letter from his wife that he had pretty much memorized. I’m betting it contained news of a new son – probably Gaidal Cain reborn. Unless someone can find me the contents of the letter, I plan to ask Brandon about it in a few weeks. :)
Maybe the reason that RJ left quite a few threads untied was to let the reader(s) throughly experience the story to the extent of their imagination. I think that the ending was better than it could be as a good book leaves some unaswered questions in the reader’s mind. If all of the WoT plot threads had been wrapped up, we as readers probably wouldn’t have to think at all.
I personally didn’t like the Seanchan as characters and probably would have removed them to focus on the storyline because they created too many instances where I was “bored” because of their endless politics. I do agree that Rand’s adventures after this would be interesting, but purely in a fun way because there is no conflict that would truly serve, Perhaps these reader outtakes will be explored in a TV Show or FanFic (I’m sorry if Robert Jordan, Brandon Sanderson, and Harriet don’t like Fanfic personally, but the ideas percolating would be interesting)
However, we simply have to accept that no ending will satisfy everyone and simply accept that at least there was an ending after Robert Jordan’s death.
It was an ending…
I am pretty satisfied with this ending. Most good stories leave a little to the imagination going forward.
I liked it a lot when Moggy was blasted by the dragons. I was disappointed when it turned out that she was not dead. That was resolved by her being collared for a lifetime of servatude. If she could not escape the collar before, there is no reason to think she will later.
I am sorry to hear the Tinkers are not to get the song. They may have abandoned the AS, but they maintained the way of the leaf, which was at the heart of being Aeil in the AOL. As to the song, in Rand’s vision through his ancestor’s eyes, the Aeil and the Ogier all helped crops grow by standing around fields singing. Rand also made things grow by singing. Someone needs to get the song because the world is in serious need of its help.
Something I did not see much of in these threads is that in this fantasy world everything goes in a circle. So Rand had to seal up the DO again. If Rand had killed the DO, Rand would have broken the wheel.
Somehow someone has to evolve back into singing, way of the leaf, Aiel who serve the AS. It could be that Aviendha’s vision is averted by the Aeil giving up their spears and going back to their original purpose. Or is could be the Tinkers. Or maybe the Tinkers and Aiel rejoin and go back to their roots.
The Rand who entered into SG for his battle with the DO was not the same when he left. He learned a lot and grew in wisdom.
If Rand had stayed around as the Dragon and savior of the world, it would have undermined what he wanted to accomplish. The schools, the dragon peace, and the safety of the nations from outside conquest. He did what he was needed for. The world now needs to learn to get by without him. If he does still have some kind of powers, I cannot see him using them to quietly help the world along though.
Rand would have a legitimate claim to the throne of Illian though.
I would rather see prequels than a continuation. It is too likely that I would not like where it went. But the past is past. I would be interested in more on the AOL and the Adventures of JF. A compilation of short stories to fill in a few gaps would be nice.
As to just Rand, Rand was no longer joined to Moridin. He was no longer needed as the Dragon reborn either. There is nothing that indicates he lost any of his memories. I think it likely that he still remembers being LTT.
I am mostly thankful that after 20 years and the passing of RJ we were able to have the story completed. So thank you RJ, Harriet, Brendon, and TOR.
Rand as a father while remaining undercover; Mat doing… pretty much anything. And then there’s Perrin… nothing there, absolutly nothing.
Chris…thanks for the stimulating “Post-MoL” story ideas! Liked them all but disagree a bit (know you’re amazed) about the “Perrin/Faile” potential story line possibilities. Not only do we have all of the potential issues with “who ya gonna serve…Andor or Saldea?” for Elayne/Faile/Perrin/Tam/et.al. but there is also all of the amazing things Perrin learned about the Wolf Dream…in effect his was the Light’s counter to Slayer and his capabilities plus it was his understanding of what was and wasn’t possible that gave Egwene the idea for her Flame of Tar Valon weave (“It’s just another weave!”). I think it would be interesting to see what else Perrin could contribute to that whole aspect of the story line.
Just a thought..
PS @120 and all others previously: I think it is self-evident that Olver is meant to be Gaidal Cain. The clues not only include his looks but his training by Matt and the Band as well as his experience in the Last Battle. Also, he and Brigette never meet in any of the books though they have numerous connections. And he’s not too old for her…plenty of relationships exist where one person is 10 or 15 years older than the other. IMHO.
Iceberg, Olver is not Gaidal Cain. It’s been stated officially that he isn’t. We saw Gaidal Cain in the Dream World, with Birgitte, whilst at the same time Olver was running around escaping Shaido, etc., in the “real” world. Therefore, they are different people. The real reborn Gaidal is just a baby by the end of AMOL.
ValMar…
Stand corrected! Thanks friend! Hadn’t heard. Sure seemed an obvious connection to me especially since he didn’t show up at the LB and I thought it would be a cool overlap with the on-going story.
All of the ideas for outrigger novels are exciting, but I was wondering what anyone thought of the Ways and Portal Stones? Would the Ways be cleansed when the taint was removed? I felt that these were important to the plot early on in the series that fell by the wayside as faster forms of travel evolved. (Though the Ways were still plot critical for the Shadow) How many stories could be told of characters we love in different worlds with different decisions? Infinite possibilites.
Remember time is distorted in t’ar so by some stretch of the imagination it should be possible for any of the children mentioned to be Gaidal C
Not really. RJ was quite clear that while time can run oddly in TAR, it never runs backwards. If someone (i.e. a Hero) is in TAR in April, they cannot have been spun out back in March.
INTERVIEW: Jan 16th, 2003 (COT Signing Report – Tim Kington)
(Paraphrased)
QUESTION Is Olver Gaidal Cain?
ROBERT JORDAN No. I didn’t really think that this would last as long as it has. The timing is wrong. He has another reason for being there besides being a red herring, though.
QUESTION He’s too old.
ROBERT JORDAN Yes. Time in Tel’aran’rhiod and the real world run at different rates, but it never runs backwards. You may spend an hour in Tel’aran’rhiod, and a day has passed when you get back, or you may spend a day, and an hour has passed when you get back, but you’ll never go in on Tuesday and come back on Monday.
QUESTION Is the difference in time constant?
ROBERT JORDAN No. It’s fairly random. Sometimes fast, sometimes slow, sometimes the same as real time.
QUESTION It’s different for different people, then?
ROBERT JORDAN Yes. Unless they’re together in Tel’aran’rhiod. Then the same amount of time passes for them obviously.
I must be in the minority here, but my dislike for Brandon’s WoT work outweighs what he did well. I can’t say it clearly enough–I really, utterly and completely HATED seeing everyone who welded the True Source lumped into the “channeler” group. Seeing that so often irked me beyond my ability to express. I counted SIX separate uses on one opened double page, and it was brutal hearing Egwene refer to the Seanchan damane as channelers: she even referred to her own forces this way, despite being soley comprised of Aes Sedai.
Then, like Tolkien was wont to do, he so overused the word “said,” that it grew pretty hard to get a sense of any underlying emotions.
All his work is this way–in Mistborn and beyond, he was still calling the group the “crew,” even when they were not thieves, but the damn government! It’s laziness, pure and simple. I could go through any size manuscript using control ‘F’, as in, “find and replace.” or get the damn monkey/assistant to do it. It might take some time, but better that than putting out dreck.
I like Brandon in other ways, mind; he has a gift for creating interesting magic systems, and paces his books well. I would have liked to see how the three books could’ve turned out with less laziness, and perhaps if he’d not written a few dozen other novels at the same time. It could have been amazing if he’d put the dedication into RJ’s work that RJ himself did.
Rand can wish Egwene back from the head he does have a gods powers now.
Sorry back from the dead not head sorry type-o
she just went for a quick pee.
About Egwene, Anyone else see that she seems to be the Queen of Manetherin reborn… lookit:
Both were AS
Both were leaders
Both were married
Both were bonded to their husbands
Both had Husbands killed while fighting the DO forces in a hopeless battle.
Both went nuclear in the post-warder-death.
The result of their blast rent the enemy forces so bad they had to withdraw from that battle field.
Both will be remembered for thousands of years.
hawkido – I’ve also wondered about the similarity between the weaves they used. In Moiraine’s description of Eldrene’s response, fire consumes the Dreadlords and the generals of the Dark One’s forces, and whoever wasn’t consumed by the fire fled in terror. In addition, the city was burned to the bare stone. There is no mention of crystal, but I still have to wonder if the two weaves were related…
But Egwene doesn’t sound anything like Eldrene.
And Ilyena Sunhair bears no resemblance whatsoever to Elayne Trakand.
gregorman @134
Hate to tell you this, but the things you are complaining about are actually less the province of the author, and more the editor(s), principally Harriet MacDougal. I’d hope you would refrain from accusing her of laziness, yes? Well, perhaps I’ll ask her to comment on Brandon’s lack of dedication the next time I see her. ;-{)>
It was so bittersweet to realize every page I turned, being spellbound (I think I know what it’s like to be under Compulsion!) to find out what happened next, meant I was closer to ending one of the most amazing writings I’ve ever read. Thank you, Team Jordan, for completing this series and answering so many questions. After reading so many of the posts here, it’s been entertaining to read about the possible post-AMOL story lines and threads.
The one thing I am sooo glad for is that Rand/Dragon Reborn learned the importance of ‘the Balance’ that must be maintained by not destroying the DO. I have to say, I was kind of pleasantly reminded of my adolescent Dragonlance days when my favorite Raistlin learned that lesson, too.
Either way, I think it could be interesting to play out scenarios of the saa mentioned in Rand’s eye….would it start to tremble if parts of Ishamael/Moridin struggled to become stronger in Rand? Would Rand’s ‘children’ have to go against their father to maintain the Light?
Also…the parallel worlds through portals that were mentioned early on….maybe that’s where the balefire/anti balefire victims go….maybe Rand needs to explore some of these parallel worlds? Maybe that’s where the Pattern ‘re-births’ some of these characters….? (Maybe it was just the loss of Egwene (annoying at times but she sure learned a lot at the end there), Gawyn, Siuan, Gareth…)
I dunno….I’m an artist, not a writer!
Either way….an amazing series and I’m so grateful Robert Jordan shared his innate talent/gift of imaginative prose and touched my life!
I’m happy the story is finally come to a closed, still wish there are more though..given that the WoT universe so colorful and vast they should expand the story still.
@49 KateSedai
I concur the woman is Nakomi base on description from ToM. I like the idea that she could be the Creator. But I think maybe she was the previous Savior before LTT/Rand. In a way to say that they are the ta’veren that become the corner stone of creation.
AnthonyPero @35: (re the merging of the Steward of Two Rivers/Aybarra House and House Trakand. Perrin and Faile could have 3 or more children:
1st child: heir of Saldea;
2nd child: heir to Steward of Two Rivers:
3rd (or later child): marries one of Elayne’s children (and not necessarily one of Rand’s — there is nothing to suggest that Elayne cannot have more children with another man? Guybon, perhaps?)
Thanks for reading my musings,
AndrewB
@143 AB
Come on… she will have some dark headed children just like Avienda. And for the same reason… Randidin will be getting all up in that.
Almost all of the things I still want to know about have been covered…except how things play out between Gaul, Bain, and Chiad. Of course I have little doubt that they’ll all end up together, but I think it would be a very entertaining story along the way.
Touching on #3, does Egwene actually even need a statue? She kinda has a giant crystal pillar with a sa’Angreal in it to be kind of a monument for her…., or did it collapse with the hill? I dont think they ever actually said.
Maybe we’ll get lucky and have another book, or even a small series of books covering the fourth age, maybe our hero’s kids? Idk, theres not much of a enemy now that the Dark Lord is sealed again. Sharans maybe? *shrugs*
Either way, now I am gonna start over and read them all back to back again. Then off to SoT series for another read thru. =P
Loved this series qnd hate hate hate to see it end. Questions im left with.
Elida’ s story?
Like to hear more from the south, namely the land of madmen.
More of the Sharans with legends of noals time there.
With the dark lord securely in his prison. Would be great to have a new threat from a group never heard of.
I can see many ways that there could be continued stories or spinoffs.
@146. Willzor Egwene needs a statue, in Tar Valon. I started a re-read on the books and it timed out just right. I finished TOM a few days before AMOL made the Amazon listings (Jan. 8th).
Egwene’s death was completely unnecessary. She had so much to do as Amyrlin, so much riding on her. I think the seanchan issue can be resolved if Tuon and Mat’s child has the spark for channeling. Seanchan dont seem to love their children much with all the survival of the fittest thing but Mat is from a different place. Also dosent Min see that somethings gonna happen to tuon ( bloody lily). If she dies the seanchan have a ruler who is bound to channel. They cant have damane with that.
I wish I could read how Rand meddles with the world anonymously and how he uses his weird new ability.
Min sees a bloody lily around Tuon. The lily is Elayne’s sigil. Tuon is going to have Elayne assasinated!
I do agree, all those stories would be great to see fleshed out. And as someone else has said the WOT universe is so diverse there so many areas of which we have only barely had a glimpse.
By the way does anyone else think that DobraineTaborwin has been short-changed? After being The Dragon’s right hand man for so long he doesn’t rate a mention in the final two books.
I really, really wanted to see what happened with Egwene’s just-begun efforts to make some sort of unity between Aes Sedai and the Sea Folk and Aiel channelers. She started that, and no one with real conviction knows about it except among the Sea Folk and the Aiel. Even assuming they’ll continue the effort on their own, will the Aes Sedai let them? What about male channelers? Will they be allowed to live among the peoples that used to kill them (Aiel, Sharans, Seanchan)? Will their people believe them that saidin is cleansed? There were a lot of loose ends that, with Egwene’s death, look like they’ll probably never be cleared up.
One things for sure, The Wheel of Time cant not be allowed to end here, the world needs to go on, first age, age of legends, 4th age – etc. Would be such a waste if no more books are writen, and would be a major let down to this 100’000’s of fans who have spent so much of their lifes in RandLand
@BankstownBoy I agree with you on Dobraine. He was one of my favorite minor characters and for him not to get a mention for several books is sad. Of course the authors can’t write about EVERY minor , if only they could though !
My thoughts about AMOL : I found it satisfying as much as it could have been. I am sad that Mr. Jordan didn’t live to finish is magnum opus. I can’t help but wonder what he would have done with the last three books… I was happy though that Mr. Sanderson was able to finish the books, since I have been a huge fan of the series for the last 23 years. It would have been far worse if they hadn’t been completed.
As for sequels , I dont see the need for them. If everything was explained in detail , we wouldn’t be using our imaginations and getting people to use their imaginations is truly the greatest legacy Robert Jordan has left to us. God Bless you, sir.
Well, I was pretty satisfied with the ending as well. As a matter of fact so satisfied, that I wouldn’t want any of the main characters here to be main characters of a follow up book. I did want to see them actually living at peace after all that happened and seeing character(s) become acquainted with Lan and Nynaeve, Perrin and Faile, Rand, Elayne, Moiraine and Thom briefly, while on a separate adventure, well, that could wrap up those story lines, showing them in their new roles. As you said regarding many of them, not much left but peace and happiness.
If not a brand new character, Oliver could actually be an intriguing star of a book set five to ten years after, he being a young man, tied to the horn, actually the one who hid it.
But as far as a whole other series, I don’t see it. Perhaps an adventure of different type with a remnant band of trollics popping up out of the deep woods now and then, internal struggles for power in Tear, a remaining dreadlord or such. More of a revisit to the world than a continuing saga, would be the only thing I could see. Although, I have thought that prequels going way back to past hunts for the horn, borderland raids, and such could be a nice way to stay in the world Jordan created.
As in Real Life, so many threads with endings that we do not know about. Few sagas neatly completed; most with many varid possibilities to be fleshed out in the minds of the readers. A tribute to RJ and Team Jordan that we all (mostly) really want to continue in the WoT world – letting go is sooo difficult.
What I would really like now as sequels are ruled out, is a PC game (Skyrim I am looking at you) that would continue the WoT world and allow us to particapate in the Adventure/Quest, and maybe provide some more closures.
I’d love to see a Wheel of Time TV series set in the Trolloc Wars. There’s just enough background material presented in the main sequence without a bunch of plot to get in a script writer’s way. Tell the story of Manetheran and Ahdriol. On screen.
Commenting on post way up there from FTHurley about Robert Jordan writing the ending early on, I really like that insight. For myself, to put Rand’s decision in line w/ the rest of the story, I felt it was his way of recovering emotionally from all that he had went through: the pain, the long term suffering w/ dark thoughts, the toll of his struggle w/ the DO and the deaths he saw. With his goal finally accomplished Rand can put aside his burdens and just enjoy life so he can recover emotionally. As far as walking out on his family and not trying to be with the women (and children) he loves, per Nynaeve’s Delving Rand is completely insane (and I think the spiritual insanity would carry over to his new body) so even though he has that golden lining to it, he may not think in the same way a non-insane person would think.
That being said, I also like the insight that RJ did not have children and if he had would he have thought differently about this.
Great list! Who’s taking responsibility for writing these continued stories?
I believe the most important point being made by all is that we are having a hard time letting go…letting go of the story, letting go of the unanswered questions, letting go of the amount of time we have dedicated to this phenomenal series. I, for one, am considering purchasing a Great Serpent ring, running off in hopes of finding a Wise One to train me in the ways of the Aiel, then claiming my rightful place in the White Tower. Maybe with the Browns, or possibly the Blues. Can anyone else relate to my incredibly ridiculous fantasy? Ahhh, what ever shall I do next, now that the Wheel of Time has come to an end?
Although, there are no endings, and never will be endings, to the turning of the Wheel of Time.
@srgwriter: Good point about prequels. When I read New Spring while waiting for book 14, I felt short-changed. I got a taste of Moiraine in the early years but then was left with a gap. I’d love more “what were thy doing before” books. But heck, I’m not picky. Give me anything about these characters and I’ll be content. It took me almost an entire book to get used to the sometimes 1/2 page long sentences that are the trademark of RJ, then nearly the same amount of time to adjust to the shorter and less detailed sentences of BS. I’m sure I could once again lose myself in the world that is the WoT regardless of who pens it. RJ was superbly amazing and could not be topped, but he can at least be remembered with the dedication of his amazingly talented fans.
I know I am accurate & insightful, but I am not Psychic Voodoo. Is this a joke and how did you worm your way into Tor?
I would like to see fans take up the storyline. If anyone is familiar with the Honor Harrington series, there have been 5 or 6 books that are collections of short stories written by fans that add to HH’s universe. Perhaps that would satisfy a lot of people.
One of the things that nobody has mentioned much is Shara. There has been specualtion about what the future holds for them, but what about its past? They enslave their channelers, that much is obvious, but why do they do so? What was the deal with the tattoos on their backs? They still use all of the channelers, even the insane male ones, so how do they controll them? Are they a land that has completely fallen to the shadow, and if so how, and what happens now that the DO has been sealed away for a few ages?
Another thing…what about the land of the mad men? What’s that all about? Are they the Sea Folk male channelers that lived to find land? Are they men from Saenchan who found a way to escape the Empire? What will happen to them, assuming they’re really all insane male channelers, now that the male half of the gift is clean?
These are the questions that plague me.
Personally I think that alot of the questions were left unanswered so the the Role Play Game would have somewhere to go. People spoke about the franchise not dying out…well, there ya go.
I would really like to see more about rand and his adventurers. That whole riding off into the sunset thing leaving behind his future kids and his girlfriends I find kind of ridiculous. I found the ending to this book a bit shocking. But I also agree with what one person said. ” rand wasn’t sure what to do because he never considered being a father and having a life with his girlfriends without possibly dying” parafriasing.
I would also like to see some mat/ toun seanchan stuff, do they accept the dragons peace?Avi and her visions, do they come true? Finally Elayne and andor, what happens to caemlyn? Does she manage to solve the messy politics made because of Perrin and faile?all in all, I wish the most to hear about rand. He really can’t just fade into the background, with his creatorish powers and his future kids
This was an amazing book, except for they ending, but way to go RJ!!
Makes me sad that there are no plans to create any more story’s within the wheel of time world! I agree with 163 Bruce, and hope a fan (or another writer) continues what Jordan started.
If nobody else writes it then as a community we will have to take it on. There is far more to be told. In the spirit of WOT, the Wheel keeps spinning and the pattern demands a another to take on the series.
I somehow think Olver IS Gaidal, and he will meet Briggete on adventures.
-Also a magic pipe really? You guys are ruining it form me!
-Being a Mat fan, I want to see their (toun and mat) relationship evolve will she love him or behead him
– also wheres Rand’s part in this if he just goes, ” Suckers! deal with all the political issues I left behind!”
-And I want to see the war on shara! as he hinted in Rands first creation in pit of doom!
To Whoever It May Concern;
I had some thoughts, as a reader, I felt we should know more of this world Mr. Jordan wrote of and as a writer I had thought how amazing it would be to write books based in this amazing world he created. To build something similar to TORIL in the forgottan realms. We the readers write books based in his world. Set it up as a tribute to Mr. Jordan for inspiring all of us. Of course we couldn’t really write about his characters but if we could write stories based in his world we could mention those characters and from a whole other perspective. Say I chose to write a story based on a farmer that went to the black tower shortly after it started forming and as a Soldier my character grew in that world no he wouldn’t be apart of the main story but he would learn of events unfolding in the main story. As a writer myself I felt it would be an amazing tribute to Mr. Jordan’s Memory and his vision if his epic world were opened up to authors the world over and we could write stories based in his world. Just an idea I had, I’d be interested in writing something based in his world if anyone else would you can email me. And if I’m infringing upon anyone’s rights or misstepping here please feel free to delete this comment and email me (kmclaughlin916@yahoo.com) so I know I’m not allowed to move forward with this idea in my own small way.
Robert Jordan was very, very strongly against allowing anyone else to
play in his sandboxwrite in his world. When he realized that he wouldn’t live to finish the WoT, he did his best to leave enough for someone else to finish this story, but he didn’t want to franchise the world. Harriet, who owns all the rights, feels… rather strongly about it too. From what she’s said, I doubt she would ever permit any such thing to be published.If you truly want to honor his memory, don’t franchise this and try to make money writing in his world. Write your own stories; dedicate them to him if you like, but build your own world to write in. From what I know of him, he would be much more honored by having inspired someone to create their own world, than by having them try to write in his.
I would love to read about all the topics you posted, but i think the idea for the series is so good I would also like to read about the next turn of the wheel a few thousand years later!
What I feel Sanderson could do, which would satisfy most of us who just always want more. Would be to do a short story compilation of the life after for the main core characters amd a soft cover or even and online download. I do like the ability to just make up the endings to each character on my own, yet I also yern for someone to just tell me.
A few minor strands that I wish had been tied up, or at least addressed, are Matt’s memory backstory explained, the Ways, and at least a mention of Elaida.
Matt is referred to by the Heros of the Horn as “The Gambler” and I believe it was Moraine that said Matt’s memories would make him pretty much the grandfather of everyone, but it would have been nice for at least some of his former glory to be recognized by someone.
I also feel let down that Egwene died without sharing the knowledge of the reverse balefire weave. Her sacrifice was expertly and heroically done balancing out LTT’s Dragonmount exit and, I like to think, leaving an eternal monument to her sacrifice. (I choose to believe her pillar did not collapse.) However, I feel that the opposite of balefire could have quickly cleansed the Ways of that deadly and terrifying dark wind. That could have already been accomplished with the sealing of the Bore and the defeat of the dark one but it would have been nice to have seen that addressed. Perhaps, too, the Ways could have been used more fully during the last battle, escaping in the world and battling against the sea folk using the bowl of winds at the very least.
And to a very minor degree it would have been nice if Elaida had been recognized as a damane in the last battle. I almost remember her pet name being mentioned once, but it would have been satisfying to see Cadsuane or Moraine recognize her and leave her to her fate. Or maybe have her redeemed slightly by having her suldam use her to save Egwene at some point. (Irony)
I agree with the poster who said a prologue written by Loiel would have been perfect for addressing much of the unaddressed issues while still leaving the overall ending open-ended at RJ wished. Unfortunately there are still more unresolved issues but these were my top three. And the Forsaken Rand learned from it still on the loose too if I remember correctly. He escaped from Rand but I cannot recall him ever being mentioned again except by the musing of one of the principle Forsaken in the last book.
Also, after reading the other comments, I know that Olver could not be Gaidal, but that would have been perfect for me. I was never a fan of Olver and thought him to be, at best a Tolkien Golem reimagining, it at worst, an editors imposition. However, if he were Gaidal, it would have equaled the awesomeness of Noal turning out to be Jaime Farstrider.
@@@@@ 175: The Forsaken Rand learned from was Asmodean, who was killed by Graendal.
@@@@@176: Ooh! I actually love that theory! I never liked Olver, either. It would be really interesting/fun if he was Gaidal (though that would mean a substantial age gap between him and Birgitte).
I realize this is an old post and is probably not being monitored anymore but I was just contemplating the series again for the hundredth time and wanted to put in my 2 cents worth. I would love to see Tuon’s return across the sea to reclaim the lands. Mat would be there with Min and the spider. Rand would have to visit Min and Mat from time to time to offer deity like help. The series could be three to five books.
The first book could have Tuon deciding to return/putting her house in order/making treaties to prevent attacks while she is gone. Mat and Min have to decide whether to go with her or stay behind. (They both go.) The remaining black Ais Sedai also travel to the New World to escape capture by the White Tower. They align with enemies.
The battles and intrigue to win the crown for Tuon would be epic. Tuon’s budding powers, trained by Moghedien would also likely change her attitude toward channeling. She could free the slaves in the new world to help defeat her rivals. This would make her more sympathetic. In the end she would need help from the old world.
Tuon could make a deal with Elaine or Aviendha. Tuon gets military support to reconquer the new world and Elaine and/or Aviendha get the Seanchan lands in the old world. This works to stop Aviendha’s visions and creates an Elaine led empire.
Just a few thoughts for a series I’d love to read.
Mark