Hello, Tor.com. Welcome back to the Wheel of Time Reread Redux.
This would normally be Part 4 of our coverage of The Fires of Heaven, but some changes have gone down in the past couple of weeks which has led this post to be, well, not that. Please click on to find out what I mean.
So! The Powers That Be at Tor.com have recently begun implementing a number of programming changes for the website, based on shifting reader interests and a number of other factors. One of those changes has been the decision to scale back on some of the older blog series on the site, in favor of more stand-alone essays and articles.
And given that the Wheel of Time Reread is one of the longest-running blog series on the site (in fact, I’m not sure, but it’s possible that Kate Nepveu’s Lord of the Rings Reread may be the only series that predates it), and that even the WOT Redux Reread is over three years old… well.
Ergo, this is the last post in the Wheel of Time Reread Redux.
I sincerely regret that circumstances dictate that it must be ended so abruptly, and in mid-flow, so to speak. The Wheel of Time Reread, in one form or another, has been a huge part of my life for over eight years, and that ain’t an easy thing to see come to an end, but I must trust that it is all for the best.
I know some of you will be upset by this news (hell, I would be way more upset if I didn’t think you’d be upset too), but I do want to assure you that (a) the previous posts of the Reread and the comments upon them will in no way be disappearing from the site, and (b) this is not even close to the end of me and the Wheel of Time on Tor.com. As I said above, the site is moving to focus more on standalone articles, and TPTB and I are currently cooking up some ideas for WOT-related topics that I can expand upon in just such individual essays: things like in-depth character analyses, perhaps, or posts focusing on setting, Jordan’s writing style and/or influences, and other such things.
We have lots of ideas, but I would also love to hear from you, O My Peeps. What WOT things would you like to see me write about? Tell me your thoughts in the comments!
In the meantime, I would also love it if you’d check out my other still-extant series on the site, The Movie Rewatch of Great Nostalgia. We have lots of fun over there! And if you’re feeling especially supportive of moi, do also recall that the original Wheel of Time Reread is still available as an e-book series! Yay!
And, yeah. I summed it up best in my first final post, but allow me to Redux my sentiments here again:
Thank you.
Thank you for sticking with me all these crazy years, and being such an awesome audience, and sharing your love of WOT and fandom and everything else with me through it all. Y’all remain the best readers a girl could ever wish for, and I hope very much that this is only, if not the beginning, a beginning. ‘Cause it certainly ain’t the end.
Cheers, my dears. See you soon!
Please note: all previous posts and comment threads in this series will continue to be permanently available on the site, and can always be found at the Wheel of Time Reread index.
Well that’s a bummer. Thanks for years of entertainment and insight!
Wow. Sad news. Have to say, don’t much care for much of the new programming here. But maybe it will improve. Hope so
the older blog series are the reason I’m on this site.
If this is the philosophy of Tor from now on, I don’t think it will keep my interest for very long…
I’m fairly new to twitter as-well-as following publishers. But I can say with great certainty that seeing the posts about The Wheel of Time reread have interested and motivated me to pull the Eye orb the World out from under my TBR pile and finally read it. After which I proceeded to kick myself repeatedly for not starting such a wonderful story earlier (Since it’s been in my TBR pile for a decade at least). I now have the next five books and cannot wait to delve deeper into this amazing story! I just wanted I say that
Well. That certainly leaves a sour taste in the mouth. Thanks Leigh! I was really looking forward to the last few books, oh well. Gotta love Johnny cubicle, making completely disconnected decisions.
*Dragkhar scream*
A catastrous disastrophe!
Oh well. Thank you for all your work doing the Reread, and the Redux that allowed me to belatedly participate in discussions of the early books. I look forward to any and all WoT-related things you post here in the future.
Echoing @Kaboom, it’s the older and long form columns that really keep me coming back to this site. I’ll be sad to see those going away.
On this series in particular, I’ve loved every minute of it. Thanks Leigh!
Hate to read that, as this reread is what brought me to Tor.com originally. (And the Harry Potter reread/rewatch.)
I don’t particularly care for most of the programming changes so far. If its just more of the same, its unlikely that I will stick around.
Of the higher ups know what is best for business, they will see their error and continue this series once more. They risk losing a lot of people over this.
Leigh, thank you for your dedication to The Wheel of Time. This series is what drew me deeper into fantasy after I had finished LOTR and your insight gave me a deeper appreciation for it, even when I disagreed with you. I am sad to see the blog go, but am glad for the time we had with it. I look forward to your continued presence on the site (the MRGN is a lot of fun).
As for WOT related ideas. You could do a brief character breakdown followed by reading suggestions for people who like that particular character. That would fit nicely with other articles presently on the site and give you lots of material due to the large cast in WOT. Also, your continued updates on the WOT TV series are a must.
Thanks Leigh for all the awesome re-read goodness over the years. You rock.
Now, mods/TBTB/whoever, this is lame, but I can at least understand this one since it’s on round 2 already. But cancelling Malazan 3 books away from catching up to everything published? Super lame. /complaints
Now give me weekly WoT vs Malazan cage matches. Rand al’Thor vs Icarium. Mat vs Trull. Egwene vs Apsalar. Elaida vs Laseen. Perrin vs Caladan Brood. Kthnxbye.
Welp, with this and the Malazan read going by the wayside, that leaves the Lovecraft read as the only thing that I regularly come here to check out. Apparently what I want to read and what higher-ups want to publish are two very different things.
Leigh this announcement makes me very sad – and annoyed at TPTB.
Your reread is what bought me to Tor.com. You and the longer formatted columns keep me around. Anticipated weekly articles vs. random stuff we don’t know what to expect. I’m sorry, Stubby the Rocket is cute, but a whole website of random posts are available all over the internet.
I do hope they let you do the reaction posts like you talked about. Maybe an overall book reaction now that we know the end. I know its a ton of work for you, but it might allow us to have the type of closure we could wish for with the ReRead Redux.
I look forward to seeing what you create. But I hope I don’t miss the posts. At least the search function still works.
First Tor did the site redesign – that made the site somewhat prettier, but negatively affected the function.
Then the comment section went from acting strangely once in awhile – to acting strangely every week.
The messed up comments has negatively impacted my ability to interact with the articles, but not my reading of them.
TPTB – I’m tugging my braid at you in irritation.
This makes me sad for a number of reasons. I’ve been following Leigh’s writing on The Wheel of Time for twenty years, since back in the RASFW-RJ days. And, since I’ve read the series probably about 30 times, including three full times since A Mermory of Light came out, I can honestly say that I don’t see myself reading any of the books again any time soon… so reading this re-read had been the only real thing I’d had to do with the series. Now, basically, the ties that 36-year-old-me had to this series since I was a teenager are cut. That’s a shame. I guess all things end badly, else they’d not end.
::sniff::
It seems to me that Tor may not be aware that people don’t usually form loyal ties to publishers. They usually form loyal ties to authors, bloggers, and specific works, rather than the faceless people that publish the works. While I truly appreciate Leigh’s upbeat response to this (which probably HAD to be upbeat if she wanted to keep a place on the site at all), I think Tor is shooting themselves in the foot. It’s far better to have loyal fans who keep coming back to your site for something “old” and then go surfing around for other things, rather than removing the very things that kept them loyal in the first place.
With the new TV show in the offing, it really seems odd that they would remove this content. I would think more people will be coming to see what all the fuss is about, and what better way to get people interested than Leigh’s fantastic writing? Besides, how many younger/newer readers want to read through 14 books to figure out what is causing so many people to rave over this series?
For those who love WoT, there are FB pages, and there is always JordanCon! :)
Well this latest poor decision is bound to cost Tor even more site users than canceling Malazan did.
I’m at work and don’t have time to write all I would like. So first, to Leigh: I’ll just say THANK YOU. And we love you. I was going to buy the ebooks gradually as I went along but will be buying them up today. Thank you for the reread and for fostering the Reread community.
To TPTB at Tor: I normally keep quiet about things (and annoying service failures) on the site. But you should know: like others, I first came to the site b/c of the reread. And for months it was the only thing I read, and when I did begin branching out, it was through other continuing rereads like Kate Nepvue’s LOTR material, or the Rothfuss reread, or the Sanderson rereads, or the Harry Potter reread.
I can think of barely 2 ‘stand-alone’ articles that ever made any impact on me (one of them the announcement of Anne McCaffery’s death). Your stand alone articles are not why I come. They are not what fostered anticipation week after week – today, the post! Who gets first! Who gets the hunny(hundredth post).
The consistency of ongoing articles is what brought us back and gave us the opportunity to become community. So I respect your right to do what you think best with your website, but I think it is a mistake. Whether it is or not, it is a mistake *for me*. I don’t have time to wander by and see what you might have that might be of interest. Without ongoing rereads, there is no draw for me here.
Leigh – please post in the Facebook group when you do your stand-alone articles. I’ll try to tune in for those and for the Movie Rewatch of Great Nostalgia. See you there. If the Warbreaker reread continues, I’ll be by there. I don’t anticipate being around for much else on Tor.
Sad day.
Thank you for all your efforts with the original re-read and the re-re-read. As with many of the posters, I originally found Tor.com based upon your re-read. I enjoyed your analysis (even if I did not always agree with it). It is because of specific books or movies that many of us are fans of the SF and Fantasy genres. This is the case for me. IMO, the best posts are those where I can comment on books or movies that I have already read or seen.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
I’m extremely disappointed.
noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
As a long time lurker, let me add my thanks to Leigh for putting in years(!) of work on the reread posts. These long series are also the main reason I visit this site. The people in charge have the stats, but this is a real bummer. Is the Sanderson reread in jeopardy too?
Oh, this is too bad – the WoT re-read is actually how I found Tor about 8 years ago, I think. I believe I found it through the Wot FAQ, which ended up on Dragonmount (although was never finished, heh) and also linked to the re-read as one of your newer projects.
I was hoping we’d at least get some kind of conclusion just in case there were any other new reactions/revelations you had (it seemed to me like we must be getting close to the end anyway in terms of things that would be new since the later books came out). So that’s my vote for something I’d like to see!
As a general comment, I also feel that Tor has gotten generally ‘fluffier’ and the re-reads are what I value about this site the most as they provide so much depth.
Wow, everyone has already touched on all the things that drew me to this site. I’m still going through Warbreaker and Harry Potter but as far as surfing the site for new things to read, that’s iffy. Now that I know that there is a Facebook community, I’ll be sure and go there and ask to join. It’s not that I don’t appreciate Tor and as one of the oldsters coming here I can certainly understand that young change has got to happen. But it’s always sad when the old things die. I was really pissed when they closed Madam Wongs West and The Irish Pub, but I’ve gotten over it.
I am sorry to hear this. The reread was what drew me to Tor, and I joined the site a couple of months ago because I was interested in joining rereads like this.
Thank you Leigh!
I recently wondered what American holidays are the reason there are only reposts and open threads instead of regular content. The long series are the reason this site is interesting, they allow forming a community of commenters.
Wow…
Well… first of all: Thank you Leigh!
I have to echo the sentiments of most posters before me- I came here first for the WOT re-read. Then I branched out, taking a peek frequently to see if there is anything else interesting. However, it is various ongoing series that bring me back here regularly. Additional benefit of these is reading the comments and reactions of familiar posters.
Anyway, I’ll be looking forward to Leigh’s articles here, especially the ones on WOT. The suggestions given so far sound good.
So Tor is once again changing things in order to be more responsive to the audience’s “needs/desires” by getting rid of something the audience likes.
I also think my time visiting this site is nearing an end.
@13 – allow me to second your complaints about the general crappiness of the new site redesign. I know that was several years ago, but I still have problems at least once every few days with comments not loading, the quick reply button being completely non responsive, and other general issues with the functionality and usability of comment features and locating articles.
It definitely seems like Tor is moving away from a more community based, in depth format (which is what the deep analysis of the re-reads allowed – my many thanks to Leigh for the amazing amount of work/scholarship she put into this, and that I forgot to mention last time) to basically cute/funny/OMG/news kinds of articles, which, frankly, you can get anywhere. I do enjoy the open threads at times, but they don’t really lead to deep, in depth discussions or feeling like you ‘know’ the commenters. But I hope they do also continue to post thoughtful essays/series. I’d love to see a character study of the various characters.
It seems to boards have eaten my first attempt to comment, so I will just echo others and say the re-read, and a few others, are what brought me to this site. Farewell and following seas
Leigh Butler, a very heartfelt “thank you” from a very occasional contributor but an avid reader of your Re-read. It kept us all afloat while we waited for the fall-out from Mr. Jordan’s death to resolve, and led perfectly into Mr. Sanderson’s taking up of the mantel. I have enjoyed it immensely, and will miss the Re-read Redux’ conclusion. Last fall I re-read the Re-Read start to finish. It took several weeks, but was a fascinating way to re-immerse in the world of WOT.
Have you ever considered doing some WOT Uber-fan fiction of your own? You certainly know the story well enough. I look forward to whatever the world has in store for you.
Leigh,
A big big thanks for all the work you’ve done on this.
Very disappointed in Tor, for pretty much all the reasons everyone else has said.
Pretty sad. It’s interesting that TPTB are closing down several series which have regularly brought back readers for years, while opting to keep obnoxious and uninspiring buzzfeed-style rip-off “Five books that do this,” and “Eight books that do that,” list articles, and press releases disguised as content. Sad day… Count me as one of those who has little interest in sticking around based on the quality of “content” currently being promoted on the site. Guess I can unsubscribe to the newsletter as well…
I have to echo many of the other commenters that the re-reads and re-watches are what drew me and have kept me coming back to Tor.com almost every day for years. I understand that one purpose of the site is to introduce and celebrate new authors, books, movies, etc., but it seems you could do that and keep on with what has brought and keeps so many coming back to this site. Maybe you could do reads/watches for some of the newer works/authors as well. I enjoy the sense of community, continuity and exchange of opinions and ideas these series bring to Tor.com. Thanks to all the writers who have put in the time and work on these ongoing series. I am very sad to see them go.
VERY long time lurker here, rare commenter. I agree with everything that has been said so far. When the MRGN, the Star Trek Rewatch, and the Brandon Sanderson re-reads are gone, so will I be gone.
@33. Absolutely correct. The long term, series rereads allow for much original thinking and commentary, and give something to look forward to every week, whereas most of the stand alone articles come across as just giving people something to talk about to fill the space. I will NOT be stopping by the site just to see if there might be something interesting once in a while among those random articles. Too bad.
Wow, this is terrible news. Sorry to hear this both for your sake Leigh, and the sake of readers here who are losing one of the last thought-inspiring series on this site. I guess they have to make room for more Brandon Sanderson gushing at the expense of almost decades-long readership.
Well damn.
First, thank you Leigh. You absolutely rock…..with your insights and great humor, your writing was always thought provoking, and the comments and community you generated changed my life. I’m so glad we have the rereader group on FB and JordanCon to continue to connect.
I too will miss the depth of discussion that an ongoing series generates. I’m sick of quickie articles and “listicles” like most of the internet. The conversation here was always respectful, smart, humorous and exciting. I anticipated Post days.
I’m reading along with several other series on Tor, but if they stop doing series discussions, I’m outta here. Superficial one off articles don’t interest me. Come on TPTB…..dare to be different and intellectual!
Well, this is horrible news (but maybe not totally unexpected)! I hope it’s not because I’ve mainly been lurking through the Redux and not commenting much. Heh. I’m doing my first start-to-finish reread since AMOL was published, and will surely miss Leigh’s biweekly commentary.
Y’all have covered it very well upthread, especially chaplainchris1 @18. If it wasn’t for the original reread, I’m not convinced I would have ever have discovered JordanCon, met many other commenters in the flesh, and had a truly remarkable experience.
THANKS, Leigh, for all that you have done to foster the WoT community for so many years!!!
Chiming in as a lurker since the LotR reread. I understand the community these rereads built don’t generate the same page views (revenue) that click bait content does, but I still want to register my disappointment that Tor seems to be going in this direction. I may not comment on the rereads but I have enjoyed so many of them and greatly value the analysis that the writers and commenters bring. I assume Tor will be moving more towards click bait but even if they do just switch to one-off analysis, I think something is lost. This is so disappointing to lose a favorite part of the Internet.
Sad, sad news…
As with many others here, I’m sad to see the end of the series that brought me to this site. Thanks Leigh for all the great work you did on the Reread over the years!
Can we crack the hunny one last time as a show of our support and love for Leigh?
(Refreshments will be served in the bunker if we do, since the Marriott is getting funny about us walking around with open containers at JCon.)
Thank you!
As with everyone else, I’m incredibly sad and not a little angry about this. Leigh you’ve been amazing, thorough, and hilarious. Like so many others commenting, your WOT Reread was what initially lured me to Tor.com and I looked forward to sneaking in a little reading of your posts at work (both on and off breaks). Reading that this was over kind of left me feeling kind of like how I felt when I finished reading AMOL – sad, wistful and empty. I think Tor.com is making a HUGE mistake. I will continue to look for more amazing content from you Leigh. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Bad move – I can’t think of any other content that would keep readers coming back eagerly week after week besides the various rereads. Guess there’s only the Warbreaker reread for me on this site now.
Thanks for all your hard work, Leigh! It’s unfortunate that it’s over so abruptly, but I’m glad you were able to cover the first few books again which is where the first re-read was a little rushed. Media is a strange business and I’m not gonna go second guessing every decision but the site had best not turn into the millionth iteration of “The Internet discusses TV SFF”. Discussion of books and stories are what makes the place worth visiting.
As for WoT world, I’d be interested in examining more of the myths/legends that Jordan tried to tie into the stories. I know he picked up on Arthur, Thor/Woden and a number of celtic influences, but there are still quite a few I kind of missed in my reads of the series.
I’ve lurked for a long time (I think I started reading when the 4th or 5th post on tEotW was posted). Thanks for doing this for so long, Leigh. It’s been something I’ve looked forward to.
I’m with others on being disappointed with the changes on the site. I skip over most content other than these re-reads.
Leigh Butler’s reread is what brought me here in 2007.
Poster like Leigh, Kate, Jo, Torie and Eugene (back in the day), EmmetAP, and KRAD kept me checking in. If nothing looks like theirs on the RSS feed; I generally pass. (Sadly, there are maybe 3 I avoid). This apparently suits tor.com; I am not wanted here. Nothing wrong with that.
Are these changes going to bring in new readers?
Sorry, LeighDB, I’m not in a state to come up with suggestions for you right now. Maybe later, or on an upcoming MRGN.
This reread has been amazing – thoughtful, useful and very entertaining. Sometimes I’ve been late to the party, but it’s always been worth catching up on the posts I’ve missed, and reading through all the comments. Some places on the internet the comments section are a minefield best to be ventured into with caution, but I’ve really appreciated the comments here.
A huge thank you to Leigh, and thanks also to everyone who has been part of the reread.
The reread ending is very disappointing (especially ending mid book) but I’m nevertheless interested in more articles about WOT. Analyses of characters and Jordan’s writing style would be great.
Nooooooooooooo!
Ok, now that THAT is out of the way…
LB, this blog post has been a regular part of my life through the birth of my kids, to divorce, through remarriage, through deployments, unemployment, employment, my Army days to my College days.
It has been sooo amazing reading, rereading, and re-rereading WoT with you.
Thank you for everything.
What the Hake?!? Ah well, time wheel Wind…
Thanks to you and to the comment-folk for filling so many gaps in my reading /memory over the recent years. Guess that makes you either ‘Finn or the Flame of TVal? Good fortune go with your next efforts.
Thanks for everything Leigh.
Tor, you’re Old Yeller’ing my online book club. Please reconsider.
I have also lurked for many years. This blog was the first I found, way back in the original reread days (I think around the beginning of TGH section) and followed it without fail every week since then. I am almost certain that I bought at least twenty books because of content I found on Tor since then. However, there is a lot of loss of goodwill from the readership (including myself) due to all the recent changes in canceling long-running blog series, which are what brings us back day after day. I am almost certainly not going to visit Tor.com daily if there are no regular blog series to read, especially ones as insightful but funny as this one.
I think it is particularly sad because while these blog series (and the associated communities) seem to drive a lot more repeated traffic, they also build a loyal fan base for the site (and publishing house) as well. I’ve personally extolled the virtues of Tor for a number of years now, and brought at least a couple of other semi-regular readers. No more.
Leigh, thank you for being able to build such a wonderful community here, and for sharing it with not just the regular commenters, but also those like me who were content to be a small part, around the edges of the community. Your regular contributions will be sorely missed.
@Tor leadership, I urge you to reconsider. The content and community can be rebuilt elsewhere. Losing the readers’ goodwill will be hard to replace.
Wow. Just…. wow. I’m beyond disappointed. I didn’t discover Tor until later 2013 when I found the eBooks on Amazon. At that time I had no idea there was a ReRead, and it took me months to catch up until I was able to follow the ReRead as it was published. I was thrilled when the ReRead Redux came along because then I felt as if I hadn’t missed the opportunity to be part of an ongoing “live” event.
Some hours ago I checked Tor on my iPhone to see if I had read far enough ahead in the book to be able to read the ReRead Redux. I read the announcement as tears filled my eyes. The ReRead Redux was something I truly looked forward to. I have mobility issues, along with health problems, so I don’t get out very much, so having ReReads to look forward to actually provided some stability in my life. Now I have to get around the fact there may not ever be any more ReReads at all on Tor.
I had thought about suggesting “The Death Gate Cycle” as a possible consideration for a ReRead, since I rank it right up there with LoTR and WOT. I do believe it is out of print, as I read my daughter’s set a few years back, but I was able to pick up the complete set on eBay; however, I digress: Having ReReads encourages community participation and debate. The ReReads provide something in common for people of different backgrounds. To not have them at all makes me question the ultimate goal of a site that has, in the past, encouraged open discourse among the Fantasy Fandom.
There have been more than a few times I’ve read a ‘random’ article and thought, “that’s it?”. When I’ve expected an in depth analysis, I’ve seen a brief perusal instead, often with only few, or worse, no comments at all. I simply do not understand the purpose of such arbitrary articles.
The ReReads have been all-encompassing for me, in that I would make sure to have caught up on all the comments from the prior ReRead before reading the current column. Half the fun is reading the discussion in the comments, even when the commenters got intense or when arguments ensued. The ReReads have not really been about “quiet” or “peaceful” discourse!
All good things must come to an end as the saying goes, but there are times, like this, I truly wonder why.
This is sad news, Leigh. The Re-read fostered many friendships I still have to this day. I may have been lurking for years, but your writing about WoT was one of the few things that kept bringing me back to Tor.com.
This series will be missed. Thank you for bringing us all together. Until we all see each other at a JCon, my friends, blind….
I work in media as well, and this is a trend I have seen time and again in recent years: reducing the amount of content and objectively lowering the quality and diversity of the content in an effort to reduce cost and reorient. It never translates to more subscriptions or advertisers or anything like that. It reduces the number of loyal readers, and thereby lowers the total number of eyeballs on the content. More than that (and this is especially true when it is done abruptly and/or in the middle of a running series), it has the chance of embittering some loyal readers so that they are less likely to return to the site or browse for new content they’d not seen before, and they may become significantly less likely to recommend the site to others.
Dena said it well earlier (16). Readers are much more likely to form loyalties to a specific writer and their content and style than they are to a site or newspaper as a whole. Long-running things like this series (or columns, to continue the comparison to my line of work) bring people back again and again, and for a reasonable cost compared with constantly coming up with new one-off content.
This is why newspapers and other written content companies like this are failing and dying. They fundamentally do not understand the media landscape, the readers, or the changing world we are living in.
Long time lurker here. The WoT re-read is what brought me to Tor.com , where I then duly discovered the Malazan re-read, the LotR re-read and more recently the Disney re-watch and the re-watch of great nostalgia. I can only further echo the comments of others. Whilst I have discovered new authors and novels through one off articles, that is not the thing that keeps me coming back.
Another echo here from me. I haven’t been reading the Wheel of Time re-read, not having read the books, but I found my way here via the Star Trek: the Next Generation re-watch and it’s the various re-watches, re-reads and series that have kept me coming back. I have read a few of the stand alone articles and have no objection to the news articles, but in the context of a website I actually visit for the series.
I’m not going to storm off in a huff or anything like that, but if the content I actually like starts to disappear in favour of content to which I am indifferent, then I will just naturally drift away.
I can only assume that Tor are taking this action because the kind of readers who like the long series are not of interest to them and they are looking to cultivate a new and different audience.
I don’t follow WoT, but series re-reads and TV reviews were what got me hooked on Tor and what kept me checking the site every day so far. If both go away in favour of fluffy pieces and locked promotions, I suppose I’ll have to start looking for my content elsewhere.
@45 zwicky,
“Guess there’s only the Warbreaker reread for me on this site now. “
Guess what happens next?
NOOOO. I loved the re-read, it’s what brought me to TOR :(
I (currently) come to this site for three series: Mari Ness’s Disney series, Keith’s Star Trek series, and Leigh’s WoT series. I have bought books recommended by Tor and written by Tor authors, but only because I was on the site already to read said articles and while browsing after reading, saw something interesting – NOT because I came to their site looking for advertisements. With this series being ripped away, and both Disney and Star Trek ending soon, I will have no reason to come here anymore. Good job to yet another site seemingly more interested in Clickbait articles than actual content.
Will Tor make any sort of official announcement about their new policy? Such a thing may help readers understand the decision, cultivate some good will, and patch some wounds. Right now it’s looking like there may soon be an exodus for a lot of once-loyal visitors. I mean, to be fair, there’s nothing stopping some other sci-fi/fantasy/spec-fic-based site from picking up readers now with similar article series – that’s what usually happens in these situations when marketing departments screw over a segment of a company’s customer base.
@45 @60 Yup, I was going to say the same thing, not to mention probably the Star Trek re-watch.
Though I rarely comment, your reread posts have been a highlight of my week for many years. As others have said, I come here for the rereads and rewatches, not for one-offs. This series will be missed.
Sorry to see this happen Leigh, I’ve followed you since The Shadow Rising in the original reread. You’ve been one of but a few stable and joyful things in my life through some pretty crappy years of both my father and wife dying.
As sad and unexpected as this is, I can’t say I’m terribly surprised, what with the current trends in website quality. I’ve watched the same thing happen to The Verge and Cracked. My guess is it’s yet another (bad) decision based off money. For instance, this article written yesterday:
http://www.tor.com/2017/04/04/open-thread-what-is-the-name-of-your-favorite-magical-weapon
has no (real) attributed author, – thus meaning less or no money out of Tor’s pockets – probably only took three minutes to “write,” and generated as many comments in a day as one of Leigh’s articles does in a week. If this is what they’re looking to do, they should just start an official subreddit. But that’s not what they’ll do – Tor is a business after all, and the one thing almost all businesses do very well is make poor decisions about what their clients/customers actually want.
Long time lurker, but I just wanted to say Thank You Leigh for all the work you have done here. Found tor.com because of your re-read and it hooked me into checking the site at least weekly to read the re-read and see what else may have been posted. I have actually bought some books because of the longer format series discussions the site (*apparently*) used to have.
Find the discontinuation of said series very sad.
Without a reason to check in on a regular basis I will probably visit here MUCH less.
Yup, echoing the others – I initially came for the WoT re-read, lurked for awhile, and started an account, partially because of that and because of Keith’s Star Trek: TNG rewatch. I definitely feel like I made online friends (or at least acquaintances) through those communities – since then I’ve happily followed the DS9 rewatch, the Harry Potter re-read, the Game of Thrones read (I seriously hope that’s not getting axed when/if the new book ever comes out), the Disney/Pixar read-watch, lurked a bit on the Rothfuss re-reads (still kind of sad that the Slow Regard for Silent Things re-read never got finished), the Handmaid’s Tale re-read and was also on the Warbreaker re-read until it started getting a little spoiler-y for me as I make my way through Words of Radiance. In fact, I was quite looking forward to then going and glutting on the Stormlight reread at that point! For awhile it was like I was anticipating a post in one of the series I followed each day! I came too late for the LotR re-read (although I did go back and re-read it) but I did make it in time for the Hobbit re-read. I think right now the only one I’m currently following is the Dune re-read, so I hope that’s not going away.
But for real, this was my favorite part of the site and usually had the most in depth stuff, along with some really good conversations and analysis that would get kicked off in the comments. I do enjoy several of the other regular series and the reviews of various TV series/movies and the various essays (in particular the Lord of the Rings and Star Wars related content is usually pretty good), but it does seem like this site is moving more towards list-y, clickbait articles and not the in depth analysis of themes and how they relate to every day life that used to be here. And I do occasionally enjoy the fluffy pieces too, but there is nothing unique about that and they don’t seem to foster the same level of communication. People tend to just drop a comment and leave.
Thank you, Leigh, for all your great work on the WOT Reread.
I’m sad to see this feature end and to have it cut off with no warning is even worse. I’d appreciate it if the editors of Tor.com could be more transparent about these changes. I think it’s easy for sudden changes like these to generate bad feelings. If they could forthrightly talk about their intentions and plans I think that would help ameliorate those feelings.
At everyone, thank you for the online friendships. I’ll see a handful of you at JordanCon. And a larger number of you in the FB groups.
@@@@@45 & 60: As of right now Alice has not heard that anything is happening to her rereads. Of course canceling them during the promotional run-up to Oathbringer – would be monumentally stupid as a business choice.
@@@@@ Tor – I’ve nominated short stories I read here for the Hugo. I saw lots of Tor name on the Hugo this year. But I only read them because I was here waiting on a reread. Or after I finished with my rereads. I’ve never visited here solely to read the short stories or the Stubby posts.
The Michael Livingston articles are great.
But I have brand loyalty to him, who I meat at JordanCon.
JordanCon, that I found out by reading Leigh’s ReRead.
Leigh’s ReRead, that I found by searching for WoT.
I vaguely understood that Tor published WoT, but I had no brand loyalty to Tor as a company prior to being active in the ReReads. I don’t know what drives revenue here on this site, but I won’t be visiting as often for buying as many books.
@@@@@38: Ways, I’m helping reach the Hunny again – that would be great. We can hope Leigh’s random articles get comments too, but the shear “We don’t know when they will happen” – is going to hurt.
As do the CRONIC problems with the comment box. Seriously Tor – why have the Comments section been allowed to be messed up for over a year? That’s driving down participation too.
Thank you Leigh for all of your time effort and head trauma. I cannot start to explain how much I have enjoyed your posts. I have been lurking for the entire run of the reread and I cannot explain my disappointment of not allowing the project to finish or even have some sort of closure.
I like so many others follow the regular series and discover the one off articles from that. However it is the Wheel of Time, Dune, Song of Ice and Fire (while it lasted), and the Sanderson rereads, the commentary, and conversations that really drive my interest in the site.
I have little taste for a Tor.com made completely of articles about “Addictive Sci-Fi: 5 Books with Fictional Drugs” and “Star Wars + Tumblr Text Posts Have Made Us All Useless With Laughter”. Those are interesting appetizers and good on a Friday at the end of the week but I really enjoy the long series and debates that have grown up around them.
So good job Tor for cutting off your nose despite your face.
The original Reread is what first drew me in to become a regular Tor.com reader, and I have been enjoying the Reread and the Redux for a very long time (despite basically never commenting). I’m very sorry to see it go, the community that was built here was fantastic. I think the decision to cut the long-running series is disappointing. Thank you for all the time you’ve put into this, and I do look forward to your upcoming standalone articles.
Thanks, Leigh. I’ve been a re-read vet since early in EOTW when you were covering seemingly millions of chapters in each post and, while less active these days, have enjoyed Son of Re-Read. I hope and trust that you will have future opportunities to do creative work on this site or elsewhere. Tai’shar New Orleans!
I actually don’t mind the articles where they highlight books of a particular theme. I’ve found several books in this way. For me, its the constant gender politicking in seemingly every article on the sight that is bugging me. The constant pushing of a political agenda is irritating when all some of us want to do is enjoy some Sci-fi and Fantasy.
Thank you Leigh!
Like many others, your rereads were my first point of contact for this site. It has been a fantastic way to discover new things about a series that has become such a huge part of my physical and mental library.
As for the changes to the site I have this to say: what data do the mods have that is suggesting this as the right move? I suppose I cannot speak for every visitor to the site but it seems to me that readers of science fiction or fantasy series will be more willing and eager to read long form articles and series than they would be to read stand alone material. Surely a publisher responsible for so many epic length book series can understand the value of companion works that accentuate and enhance the value of the originals? On the face of things this seems like an illogical move that is not based on what the readers might want out of a publisher. It is not what I want in any case.
Once again, thank you for this work Leigh, it was done with skill and love. You have earned your heron mark, and if I could stamp one on your pencil/pen/keyboard/whatever I would do so in a heartbeat.
Cheers,
Elijah
The Wheel of Time re-reads (and ongoing series like it) are the reason I come to Tor. Leigh, you rock and thanks for all you’ve done in this space. Hard to imagine what Tor looks like without this.
Came to Tor for the original re-reads, and it’s these same weekly recurring bits that keep me coming back. It’s refreshing the page in waiting for them to be posted that shows me the other content, and I’ll sometimes see an interesting topic or story to dig into.
Without the recurring draw, I don’t think I’ll be by the site much. Even for security advice.
Bad move, Tor.
Nooooooooooooooooooooooo!
As many others, I’ve been coming here for the WOT ReRead, which I discovered during a particularly dark year of my life. This was one of the things that kept me sane, and I lurked here every week. Years later, when I even started to comment time from time (I’m very shy and still insecure about my English, no, don’t say my English is all right, I still feel like I’m never able to say precisely what I want to), I felt like I’m among good friends here. Now I spent here a lot of time. So when I read this, at work of all places, It took a lot of effort not to start crying. I somehow managed to get home and before I got through comments, I cried and cried.
I even dare to say that the ReRead is a big part of why I love WOT so much. Now I wonder, wouldn’t it be just another fantasy series without this?
So, basically… THANK YOU, Leigh. And everybody here. If this truly is it, I will miss you all. I may come here again, though not as often, but I suspect some of you won’t. It certainly won’t be the same. That makes me sad. Is there any chance that TPTB will read all this and change their mind? Because other commenters are right, this is a terrible idea.
Well, the Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills, right? ::tugs braid and goes to find another box of tissues::
Tessuna, your English is alright ;-)
Booooo! Thanks for the many interesting and often hilarious posts, Leigh.
To be honest, the WOT re-read was the only reason I stumbled upon Tor.com to begin with, and it exposed me to quite a lot of other good material through the years. It’s always been about the re-read, though, and this decision is probably going to be looked back on as the moment Tor.com began its decline. Maybe I’m wrong, but of the 3 people I know who ever visit this site, it was your posts that got them started.
ValMar: Sigh. But, to be fair, if I had waited till it gets better, I would have missed the whole Re-Re-Reread. I’m glad I quit lurking.
ValMar: Sigh. But, to be fair, if I had waited till it gets better, I’d have missed the whole Re-Re-Read. I’m glad I quit lurking.
Thank you Leigh! I’ve been with you from the very start — your first read-throughs would generate several thousand comments and I learned so much from you and all the other fan insights. The new Tor seems to have very narrow-cast articles that are easy to read the headline and skip. Best to you!
Tessuna, in case there is any doubt, the quality of your English is good enough that it’s not worth commenting on, except to say something like “You are not native English speaker, really? OK, if you say so.”
What has Tor done?
I wouldn’t be surprised if it turned out that this was the work of some high-priced “media consultant”, one with no understanding of the science fiction & fantasy fan-base.
I would argue that it is these long form series the re-read and re-watches that draw the majority of eyeballs to this site, as prior commenters have noted.
There are a million and one other sites to go to for the one-shots, the lists, the blurbs and excerpts of new works.
But it is this site (until now) where we could go to find these long running analyses of favorite works and series ,and participate and critique and make new friends (and close enemies!) build a community and as others have also commented, a loyal fan base not for an author, or a series, but for a publishing house!
How often have some of us come here for our re-read of choice and run across something new that we immediately had to have, or have been inspired by the comments to actually go and get that classic book that we always meant to read, but never quite found the perfect time?
Do they realize what they are pissing away?
Well, it’s been fun. I’m not sure I’ve ever commented here, but I always found your commentary insightful and enjoyable. I, too, hung around rasfwrj back in the day (OMG, was that seriously 20 years ago? I guess it had to be – I first read TEoTW in ’97).
Thank you, Leigh!
I just realized-
No re-Re-read to discuss “You? No!”
I am going to miss this :( Have been following it since almost the very beginning, and still never miss a post (though I rarely get time to actively participate in the discussion any more, RL (real life) trumping RL (Rand land) here.)
Thanks Leigh for so much insight (and entertainment (and head-desking)) over the years. And thanks to all the regular commenters for the varying perspectives that, on the whole, made my WOT experience so much richer!
*Tugs braid at TPTB*
~lakesidey
So, I´ve been thinking. And more I think about it, the more unfair and wrong it seems. I went from sobbing “this cannot be happening” to “the Wheel weaves…” to full braid-tugging-Nynaeve level of angry over night. This cannot be it. Not like this, not in the middle of a book, out of the blue, like we don´t matter. I felt almost like at home here – sort of like Egwene in the White Tower – and now I wonder if there really aren´t black ajah in real life, trying to brake the Tower. And if there is anything we can do about it. If we really are a community, shouldn´t we, like, rebel against being disbanded? Say, flee the “Tower” and set up shop somewhere else, or stobbornly continuing discussing WOT on the original re-read threads, or just stay here to see what happens next, but end every single comment with a braid-tugging, till TPTB get tired of it and bring us WOT Re-reread back… or something. (If this sounds too much, please keep in mind I´ve been rereading way too much of TGS and Egwene storyline in generall lately, and this is probably result of that. But seriously, aren´t we like those Aes Sedai in White Tower, who let Elaida do stuff, even if they knew it was wrong, and then wondered how under the Light everything fell apart so quickly?)
As far as a vote for things I’d like to see, since we can’t have the Reread/Redux treatment in full, what about a Reread/Redux post per remaining book? That is, any new thoughts you have, Leigh, on particular books and major events therein, in light of AMOL?
By the way – during the periods where I’ve checked Tor’s website daily, it’s because I was looking at 3 or 4 rereads at once that took place on different days. I’d come to the site to check if the post was up, and scan through anything I’d missed since the day before.
I follow authors, not publishers. Without good writing happening on the site, there will be no reason for me to visit here anymore.
Why isn’t Tor responding to the questions in this thread? This is the first time I recall ever seeing accusations against Tor and they don’t bother to respond or defend themselves – usually one of their representatives is all over the thread.
I originally came to Tor.com for Jo Walton’s Patrick O’brian reread, ended up reading a lot of old articles by Jo and later most of her novels as well. I went through the Harry Potter and LOTR rereads and for several years have wanted to go through the WoT ones as well. As opposed to many SFF blogs, Tor.com has always been a place where literary criticism and fandom intersect with real life. The things discussed here matter and bring meaning and new perspectives to real life feelings and situations using SFF as the medium. The heart of this is the rereads. Rereads are the only place where sufficient depth and background is present to have these deep conversations. Without them, Tor.com will go the way of io9 (God forbid).
Thanks for all your work and insights, Leigh. I also found Tor.com because of your re-read and I will miss it greatly.
This seems to be a part of the general dumbing down of all media. If it ain’t on Twitter (or Instagram or Snapchat or whatever today’s craze is) it ain’t worth following???? Puhleeez.
I could probably count on my fingers the timed I just went to Tor.com instead of going directly to the blogs I was following. And those times were mainly because the site had screwed up my links to those blogs and I had to search for them again! Truly bad move, Tor.
@@@@@ Tessuna (and others) – There are a few active FB groups to discuss WoT, including one for the Rereaders. But I’m not sure if you are on FB or not.
There is also: https://www.tarvalon.net/
and
http://www.black-tower.net
But admittedly the Black tower is new site and has not generated much commenting yet. Both sites are open to both genders.
Maybe TPTB will notice the drop rate in their hit count and rethink. I don’t know.
There is now an official WoT convention in Europe – it is in Manchester, England. But that might be closer to you than Atlanta, GA for JordanCon.
https://www.thetworivers.org/
Tugs braid at TPTB
@@@@@ Ways – getting closer to a final WoT Reread hunny!
sps49 @@@@@ 85:
*blinks*
*thinks*
*wails*
By the way, rereaders – I did a quick tribute post to, well, to us on the FB group. (Where the community will live on in a new and smaller bunker…). https://www.facebook.com/groups/166633930016952/permalink/1659009680779362/
oh wow…
Leigh Thank you so much for the WoT reread and redux. I have loved this series for a LONG time and have followed the rereads since the beginning. Your outstanding gift of being able to find the humor, double standards and interesting themes in WoT has added a lot to my, and I think everyone’s, appreciation of the series. I kind of wish we had let the series go with the end of the reread. I think everyone just loves it so much that we wanted it to go on and on in our imagination and couldn’t face the end. But the reread redux never really clicked with me in the same way as the reread… I didn’t NEED to read the redux immediately when the post came out like I did the original reread. And I think maybe others felt the same, so I can understand management wanting to use their resources on something new…. still it is sad news… The end of an era on Tor.com for sure
Tai’shar Manetheren!
@94, thanks for the link to the FB Group. I just sent a request to join. This is one of my favorite series and need more people to talk to regularly.
To be honest, I didn’t participate in the WoT redux, but it’s still sad news. At least the annoncement brought us all back. it’s great to read so many once very familiar handles and instantly feel transferred back in time.
Last hunny? :(
I’ve read and followed along lurkingly since the very beginning, posting occasionally. I will really miss the WoT Re-Read. I think the PTB are making a mistake. I’ve found some other content on tor.com occasionally, like the Dune Re-Read, but I came for Leigh and I stayed for Leigh.
Thank You Leigh. What the hell will I read on my lunch break now?!
93. Braid_Tug
I’m new on FaceBook. Could you tell me how to access a group?
Thanks,
Ha!
Anyway. I too, haven’t commented as much as before, but still came as “foot traffic” on Tor.com regularly to read Leigh’s redux series. This is what the PTB want, right?
Argh, noooo I just missed it :)
OMG!!!!!!!! ValMar grabs the hunny. Again. Arrrrrgh!!
@99
Send a “let me in” request to: WoT Tor.com rereaders. That’s the name of the private group.
Sorry for the double-posting earlier, I thought my post was eaten so I typed it again… and I have one too many “Re” in the word Re-reread, but not going to edit it, that’s how it got eaten in the first place…
@82 ValMar, thanks, I actually thought I got the word all right/alright wrong and you are being ironic ;)
And congratulations! The very last hunny. Wow.
(Unless we keep tugging our braids here long enough for another one…)
@93 Braid Tug: Thank you so much! I went to tarvalon and the fb group last night. I’m there!
Got lucky, was watching Question Time on BBC, during a boring patch swung by (more traffic to the website…) and there they were: 99 posts, the second most beautiful sight on the net! After pausing to admire it for a bit, went on to make it the top most beautiful sight on the net ;-)
Lisamarie @@@@@ 101
Alas, by the standards of the good old days you didn’t just miss it. Back then often it was a matter of a few minutes, besides time zone difference (went to bed with 90 posts and woke up with 105 and subwoofer gloating :D ).
As it is, the redux articles still got a decent amount of comments, compared to others. I think that there would’ve been even more visible activity when Leigh got to the last couple of books. I think it is strange decision by Tor and probably there is more to it than we know.
Thank you, Leigh!
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
The WOT re-reads have long been one of my favorite online routines. Having recently moved and gotten the books out of storage — I started my own re-read and have been following along online from years past to check the discussions and insights… and laughs. And, as part of my re-read, I’ve introduced a newbie to the series. One of the first things I did was to send her a link to your page so she could read a book and then do some re-reading (as the initial re-read couldn’t spoil the ending) and enjoy the insights of you and the community. So far she loves it, but she’s annoyed at Rand for being a punk to her bff Moiraine (she’s in FoH). I’ll … I’ll be sure to step back and put on my goggles when the thermonuclear reaction hits at the end of the book.
I hate to say it but I expected that this was going to happen when they cancelled the Malazan re-read. I thoroughly enjoyed this re-read and will miss it. Now my screen name will no longer make any sense.
You all were my family at a time of need. Alas, this will be good-bye for me, as I still have no membership on Facebook.
Thank you, Leigh, and thank you all!
Oh, srEDIT. For a day I was almost a little bit – very, very little – ok with this – well, not really, but it seemed at least a little bearable knowing that we’re all on facebook and can meet there and weep for the Reread together. I thought that we’re saying goodbye to Reread, but at least not to each other.
Bye, srEDIT. Family at the time of need indeed.
And oh, look, it’s past midnight already (at least where I am).
TPTB, you made me depressed and crying on my birthday. Are you happy now?? ::tugs braid::
The WoT re-read was what brought me back here over and over again for the last… eight years, I think? Maybe seven. Perhaps five percent of my time here has been on other threads.
Thanks for all the wonderful memories, Leigh. The wheel turns, I suppose.
18. chaplainchris1
You said it for me.
54. WDWParksGal
Ha. Exactly my reaction.
67. Lisamarie
Five years from now they’ll be recycling the better comments from the re-read as one-off articles :)
73. Jason_UmmaMacabre
I wrote a comment or two on the Dune re-read in a similar vein… but it was removed by the moderators :)
That was a first for me.
95. Neuralnet
There is some truth in that.
94. chaplainchris1
I sent a ‘let me in’ request (or at least, I think I did).
Not sure I’ll recognize anyone, though, if their names aren’t like their handles here…
105. ValMar
WoT-ing while driving? I didn’t know you could split the flows so skillfully :)
JonathanLevy,
Re: the FB thing, there’s a list of “Handle = Name” over there. Very helpful.
Jonathan levy. I didn’t get your request. the group is WoT tor.com rereaders, also in case anyone else is interested
In my obsessive ponderings of WoT, I keep thinking “I’ll comment on this thing when Leigh covers it again,” and then remembering that she won’t. :-(
@Commenters: Thanks for letting us know about the WoT Tor.com rereaders Facebook groups. I’ve been joining every WoT-themed group I can find, but didn’t know about that one, and have sent a join request. [Edit: And now joined it]
Thank you for everything Leigh.
I don’t even know what to say … I’ve been really quiet on the Reread Redux after being very present on the original Reread, so maybe I should feel guilty that I didn’t help the comment count in recent times.
The Reread has been a source of pleasure as well as a conduit to making some great friends. It’e still true that “I’ve got Friends in Tor Places” :-)
This is the first time I’ve commented, I just wanted to say thank you very much. I’ve really loved this blog series, I already loved WOT but reading your summaries and insights gave me a new depth of appreciation and understanding. When the books were still ongoing the series was a great way to catch up when short of time and I always looked forward to reading the next instalment. I’m looking forward to what every WOT analysis articles come next for you. :)
I’d also like to say to TOR in general that I love the re-reads/watches etc and I really hope that they wont disappear from future articles all together.
I admit to being very shocked and saddened by this. Partly because since, as so many have stated, I don’t come to Tor except for the re-read (and also Harry Potter when it was running, Mari Ness’s Disney/Pixar re-watch, and the Nostalgia Movie Re-watch) I wasn’t even aware of the changes or the re-reads that were also canceled. I suppose I should have seen it coming, with the way so many sites are changing to clickbait, but I really thought Tor was better than this, particularly since they gave the green light to do the Re-read Redux in the first place.
(I can see the argument that maybe we should have let it end with the original Re-read and were just hanging on for nostalgia/to still hang out together, but Leigh’s original reason for doing this, to cover the earlier books in more and proper depth, was a valuable and legitimate reason to do the Redux. But maybe going on beyond that was a mistake, as much as I was enjoying getting to comment on things I didn’t the first time around.)
I also confess to not understanding Tor’s reasoning even beyond the popularity of the re-reads and the loyalty of fans vs. their desire to make more money. Do they truly think the one-shot articles really bring in enough traffic, considering how few comments they usually get? (I don’t think all of them are silly or useless, but I do think a lot of them are…unnecessary, because they cover things which are or should be obvious, or don’t add much to the conversation. I can nod along, go “Hmm that’s interesting” or “Just what I always thought!” and then…not comment because I feel no need to. Not what they’re going for here.)
What is even more bizarre is that they would cancel these re-reads because they are “old” and they want to support new material. While that makes sense on the surface, why would you want to shoot in the foot readers who have been loyal for years to old offerings of yours, banking on the unlikely chance they’ll switch to your new offerings instead? Why get rid of things related to old published works when said works are still available themselves to be bought and enjoyed? It’s like they’re trying to drive down sales of older books in favor of new ones, so they can retire and pull the old ones…which again incorrectly assumes the new works can carry the loyalty and bring in the money that older loyal fans (and those whom they introduce to their old favorites) do.
On top of that, they get rid of the re-reads but…still keep the re-watches of old Disney and Pixar films? Or the Nostalgia Re-watch of old movies? Not that I am saying I want those gone too of course, but why the lack of consistency? I suppose it’s because those works aren’t actually sold by Tor, so blogs about them may not bring in money (other than through site traffic) but they also don’t deny it to other works Tor does sell. As if it’s some zero-sum game where older works getting attention means newer ones never will…
*sighs* Maybe the large amount of objections in these comments will get Tor’s attention and get them to change their mind. But considering Tor has not put out a statement themselves and no moderators or other Tor staffers have come in here to explain, listen to concerns, or anything, we probably shouldn’t get our hopes up. Probably the mods aren’t here because no one is flaming or causing trouble, and everyone else among the TPTB are just ignoring it because they don’t care. Well, all I can say is the severe drop in traffic this will cause will certainly make them regret it in the end.
Everyone else has given great testimonials already, so all I can say is I dearly enjoyed reading every entry, despite and sometimes even because I disagreed with Leigh’s opinions or the manner in which she expressed them. And while there were a few bad moments/rotten apples in the barrel, for the most part the community here has been the most reasonable, considerate, and understanding I’ve ever seen on the Net…which this year especially is quite a remarkable thing to say. Also of course the discussions have been fascinating and fun to read, both helping me see WOT in ways I might never have, and teaching me all kinds of intriguing information I never knew. My only regret is not discovering it earlier, and not deciding to post earlier once I did, since it would have allowed me to comment more than I ended up getting to. Also, this blog has been responsible for me introducing the series to friends and loved ones who otherwise might never have enjoyed it or actively refused to before, so I owe it for that as well. (It sucks when you’re the only person in a household who enjoys a thing, even more when those around you reject it rather than simply ignoring it.)
Thank you for everything, Leigh, it has been a blast to witness and to be here for the short time I was. While I have not been able to be as up-to-date on it as I would have wished due to matters in my life, so that the re-read coming to an end does to a certain extent alleviate a bit of pressure/stress on my time, I would never want that to have vanished in this manner.
As for what to request of you for these future WOT-themed posts you will hopefully still be making, I would simply ask to see more of what you first suggested you’d do when the Redux began: speaking not only of particular characters, plots, and themes in the series, but matters such as the worldbuilding of WOT, the various prophecies throughout the series and your thoughts on how they did (or did not) get fulfilled, the Hero’s Journey and how it does and doesn’t apply throughout, and other “big ideas” like these. A lot of this has certainly been covered by the people at the Thirteenth Depository (which should give you a better idea of the kinds of things I’d love to see), but of course the key here is what you bring to the table, both in terms of your knowledge base and your wonderfully unique way of expressing and discussing it. :)
“Probably the mods aren’t here because no one is flaming or causing trouble, and everyone else among the TPTB are just ignoring it because they don’t care. ” – they aren’t paying much attention to this thread, but I know at least one snarky comment (mine, admittedly) on another thread got modded off almost immediately. That said, I am not sure the mods are even the ones in charge of this decision.
Basically, I came back because I was a mess last time I commented here, and I don’t want my last comment here be like that.
I won’t be around these parts of internet for some time. I was quite looking forwards to upcoming Doctor Who reviews, obviously everything Leigh Butler writes, like the great nostalgia rewatch, and I will miss a lot of WoT-unrelated stuff and people from here. But I feel that I need to make a point, that point being this is a mistake, and therefore I will stay away from Tor as long as my stubbornness will make me. I’ll probably lurk in eventually, because of the reread posts I’d like to revisit from time to time, so I cannot just storm out with some well chosen words and great amount of fierce braidtugging and never come back.
Anyway. Even though most of us will keep meeting on facebook, it won’t be the same and I will miss this.
I’ve been thinking about so many last words in general direction of TPTB, but there is really only one that summs up perfectly my thoughts on how great idea it is to end the Reread like this:
HEADDESK.
I recognize a few names around here! You guys probably don’t remember me, but I was around for most of the early re-reads, only falling off when I had to wait for the library to get TGS (so as to avoid spoilers). Unfortunately, I never caught back up to the WoTRR wagon after that, and after aMoL I couldn’t find it in me to start all over again with the redux. Indeed, I couldn’t find it in me to come back to Tor.com at all as regularly as I used to. So I’m not too sad about this decision, but I will always fondly remember our heated discussions about fan theories and feminism. The WoT reread really made me appreciate and enjoy the series and the artwork far more than I otherwise would have. Ah, but those were the days.
EDIT: holy crap, did I really predict the reread redux an entire year before they happened?
http://www.tor.com/2013/02/22/the-wheel-of-time-reread-now-available-as-collected-ebooks/ (comment 19)
I am truly sorry to see this series end. I truly enjoyed your work with WoT and also with ASoIaF (with that I had as an added bonus of anticipating your reaction to certain favorite scenes).
Stopping it to thank Leigh for years of community and critical thought. This year I’ll be at JordanCon for the very first time, an experience I probably wouldn’t have be inspired to do on my own. I look forward to what the future has in store for Leigh, but like others, am put out by clickbate and won’t be doing as much exploring around the site since there won’t be much bringing me back.
Wow! I’m glad I found this now. I’m working my way through your original recap, listening to the audiobooks at work and reading the recaps when I get home. I’m on Winter’s Heart now. I was looking forward to reading the redux after I finish. Now I won’t be so disappointed knowing in advance that it’s ending. Thanks so much for all of your hard work! It’s making my ‘listen-through’ even more entertaining! I’ve read the entire series except for the last book (I know!!), and I’m determined to listen to all of the audiobooks this go-through. I have them all on audible, so no worries there. Thanks again for the amazing work, Leigh!
Hi Leigh,
::waves::
Welp. That blows goats.
Flaming goats. Who asked them anyways?
And why in the name of the Creator did tordot pull the pin on my pack’s anniversary? Why not June 06 or er… Never?
Granted, I have more or less stopped rambling on these posts, mostly because I am not plugged in anymore and have taken on a whack of other projects and tordot had one of the clunkiest websites known to man and dog.
Anyways. This bites.
If Yor wants to get the hits and snazzy pups like moi tuning in, fix the site and the links and stamp it in to SM.
Leigh, you are bags of awesome and come what may, it has been a pleasure and I will be a loyal packmember always.
Woof™
Firefly at least got a movie to wrap things up.
Hows about it Tordot?
And fix the clunkie website.
The nice thing about the WoT reread was the normal folks and repectful interaction. It is a good environment.
On some most of the other threads there are either knobs that flame at everything, vastly devaluing the price of tea in China and my willingness to bother to comment, the fun police, who have the same effect, or folks that were starkravingmad not on the same wavelength.
And Leigh. Leigh is awesomeness personified. Best there is. Kept people happy. Kept the loons in the pond. This worked.
With all the sketchy stuff in RL tordot should do one thing right. Fix this… and the clunky website, and Bob’s your uncle.
Did I mention the clunk?
And giving Leigh a movie deal?
Or the best epic sendoffwrapup post?
C’mon.
Woof™.
The Reread was a very special thing, and I’ll always remember the wonderful friends I made there. Those of you I met in person turned out to be every bit as wonderful as you were in cyberland. The RR opened the doors to all things WoT, and vastly expanded my knowledge and interest in the books. And Leigh. . . damn girl, you made me laugh so hard. You are a true talent and I miss your twice a week injections of fun and headdesking. My love to all you rereaders. May you always find water and shade.
Hi Leigh!
::wags tail::
So it looks like WoT is going to the screen. Great news! All the more reason to take up the re-re-read again. Fans are going to be sniffing around looking for a connection. Tor, don’t drop the ball on this… again.
Wheel of Time was never meant to end. So say the fans, so says Jordancon. So says RJ.
Til shade is gone,
til water is gone
Into the shadow with teeth bared
Screaming defiance with the last breath
To spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the Last Day.
IRL things may seem sketchy, but we’re not there yet.
Tor: keep the Wheel turning…. and fix your clunky site.
Oh, look….
A bowl…
Woof™.
So, I managed to stay out of here for a week. OK. Anyway, getting to the second hunny seems like more fun than sulking.
I basically came back to say that ending re-re-read just when WoT is going to the screen is even worse idea, which I thought to be impossible, because ending re-re-read at all seemed like the worst idea EVER. But Subwoofer got here first.
All I can do is agree with him wholeheartedly.
200 is easily reachable. There is infinite things to talk about now that a movie is in the works. On a couple of the treads I have posted various opinions in regards to characters and such. May as well share some thoughts here.
Some folks have mentioned time and again that they would rather not see actors play the part of a beloved character because that would taint the memory of how people envision a character. I have also seen people suggest that no name actors fresh off the streets should be cast as established actors are known for other roles and would blend things. To the later, I say, well, so? Professional actors act. The good ones can pull off any role.
As an example look at Jon Bernthal cast as the Punisher. There were many doubts and a fair bit of fandom outcry at this dubious casting choice because of a previous role on “The Walking Dead”. Folks did not think Jon could pull of Frank Castle. Myself, I liked Ray Stevenson as an “older” Frank, big, imposing and could crush many thugs.
That being said, when we all saw Jon on the screen in “Daredevil”, he owned the role. In prison, in that gauntlet melee, against the Kingpin, just talking, Jon is the new Punisher. One batch, two batch, penny and dime.
There are other actors out there that can completely nail the roles in WoT. It is up to the casting directors to find them.
Anyone for some ter’angreal?
Woof™.
Oh yeah, as I mentioned on the other thread, IMO, race is something not set in stone, given the way things have shifted with war and world breaking, etc.
One of the people I am doing for casting is a good fit for the part skill wise, but not the traditional look. Birgitte is mentioned for her long braid, I am thinking to myself if it has to be blonde? Not sure. The Wheel could spin out a Birgitte with completely different looks, and I think Birgitte has mentioned that a few times when she and Gaidal Cain are spun out. Anyways, I did an initial cast, but am reworking it on IMDB and will post it when it is completed.
If there are strong feelings either way, feel free to mention them.
Also, if anyone is having any luck uploading images, lemme know how the insert/edit image thing works for them.
Woof™.
On one computer I used the icons for inserting images and some others were always missing. On another computer they are there. It’s just another weird thing about this site. Try another computer if you can.
Not sure about that 200 – everyone else is commenting elsewhere. It may take some time to get to this hunny.
Birgitte with dark hair seems wrong to me. Like Rand not being ginger. I think that hair colour, if mentioned in books, should stay the same. But I´m way too nitpicky about such details. Just wait till we´ll discuss the TV series – after we´ve seen it I mean – I´ll be here with some “oh no, but her dress is the wrong colour, and the embroidery was described differently in the book” and so on.
Thanks for everything you have done on the WOT Leigh!
Ive been here from the beginning and have enjoyed your input and all the great posters as well. A community Indeed!!! (Bunker)
I always thought it might be a good idea to try and create a prequel on our beloved series; With posters doing the input and you doing the editing. Who knows: It could have been a good read! Lots of knowledgeable peeps on here!!!
All Good things come to an end!!!
Thanks everyone for the great reads and Info!!!
Awkward question. Is this the same thing that happened to those old Avatar and Cowboy Bebop rewatches, or was that something else? That being said this all sucks if they insist on going this route the best way to do it would be to not start any new rereads/rewatches but let all of the preexisting ones finish their runs at least. Not that I agree with this policy just pointing out there are better ways to handle it if this is the way you insist on going
I wish I had posted earlier and chimed in that the reread and redux were valuable parts of the site. I’d go so far as to say, Leigh, that your rereads brought me back to a series that I had lost interest in halfway through Winter’s Heart. In fact I re-purchased the whole series on e-reader after falling in love with it again!
Leigh, it was very meaningful to read along with you as you explored the sheer genius of this brilliant series and these unforgettable characters. It was nice to read a feminist perspective on a series that focuses so heavily on gender, with mixed results. I loved headdesking, smiling and tearing up along with your reread.
So this is a serious shame! I hope we can find a space to all keep discussing this series and not let it fade away.
I have been away from a computer for a while and I had no idea this had happened until i came back to look for the rest of the re-read redeaux.
I totally understand that the publisher makes the choices they make with their website and I am happy to follow Ms. Butler on the Movie Rewatch of Great Nostalgia but I would be lying if I did not say that this makes me sad.
Like I am crying a little, sad.
It is stupid but it really felt like she was talking to the reader in a very personal and very visceral way that made the responses in the community on the comments page feel very vital and connected.
It is like the day after graduation when you realize that all the people you agreed with and fought with and struggled with to gain any point and conceded a well argued point after are all gone.
well, not gone but what tied you together is gone and maintaining that outside of the touchstone you have been a part of for literally years is not going to happen. sure we say it could happen but life draws everyone away and we all know it has to but it is still sad when it happens.
It is happening. I am sad and I will miss you all. Even if I have not commented in over a year.
This is very sad news, I just found this re-read. Don’t know how I missed it before. I look forward to reading more essays in the future!
Well Leigh if you are ever wondering of what series to do next, may I kindly suggest that you do a blind read of the Saga of the Seven Suns by Kevin J. Anderson. It would be awesome seeing your take on the space opera series. But other than that keep up the good work.
And then a year later get someone else to do it. Well… this isn’t the first time ove seen Tor make a huge mistake.
In light of the tv show renewing interest in the series, any chance Leigh can finally finish this re-read redux? I couldn’t make it past the first three episodes of the show, and I struggled to finish the first post in Silas’s first time read, and both made me wish for more content from Leigh!
Fans of Auntie Leigh can find a (restrained) version of her commenting on the Amazon series here: https://time.com/6122162/wheel-of-time-amazon-book/ It’s not as flippant or freewheeling as we enjoyed in her Tor.com commentary, but it’s something, none-the-less.
@141: That was nice to see (once I figured out how to cut your link), but I hope she does an entire summing up, because the first 3 eps were not necessarily enough to go on.
Yes, I saw Leigh’s article when it came out. Interesting take, as always.
Curious to hear thoughts about the finale. I’m still mulling it over and probably need rewatch that focuses on what’s on the screen rather than what is in the books.
Time does have a new article about the finale.
@144: Found it . . . thanks!
Ah, such a bitter pill!
Thank you Leigh, I remember you (and so many others) from rasfwrj even though I was only a lurker. I appreciate your years of hard work both here and there, WoT has been a constant friend and I’ve enjoyed your commentary for a very long time. Godspeed!