“Hey, I have a show you’d love,” I say, and I see my friend’s eyes light up at the prospect of some juicy new content. “It’s an animated series…”
You probably know what happens after those four words. The friend’s eyes lose their glow, and they possibly start glancing around the room for something else to glom onto. Perhaps they say they don’t want to watch a cartoon. They “aren’t into animation.” No matter what you throw at the wall, it won’t stick.
Perhaps you’re lucky, reader, and have a social circle firmly entrenched in the wonderful world of animation. I’ve got a fair few friends who enjoy the occasional animated adventure and a few who happily watch thousand-episode anime series for breakfast. But many of my comrades range from being extremely wary to outright against animation.
What’s a writer to do, then, when he can’t understand why people—people who love live-action stories and consume them in large quantities—bristle at the prospect of watching an animated show or movie?
Conduct a survey, of course.
I sent a survey about animation to thirty of my closest friends and family members. I received 21 responses, many of which were incredibly thoughtful and revealing. Below, I aim to use their responses to answer two questions: (1) Why do people balk at animation, and (2) Are there shows/movies that can change their minds?
Let’s Look at the “Data”
Before we go any further, I’d like you to understand that this was a pretty homogeneous group of responders: Most are Midwesterners in the 25-34 age range. So take all of my “findings” with a heaping pile of salt. Also, please note I am about the furthest thing from a market research expert, though I did consult my father-in-law, who makes his living in the field, while constructing the survey.
Here’s a rundown of some key questions. Later, I’ll include longer-form answers from individual participants to help us make more sense of these results.
Gut reaction time: in general, do you enjoy animated TV shows and movies?
- 85.7% Yes
- 14.3% No
Good start!
1 being “not at all” and 5 being “I love it and watch it frequently,” how much would you say you enjoy animated movies and TV shows?
- 1: 9.5%
- 2: 0%
- 3: 23.8%
- 4: 38.1%
- 5: 28.6%
This is more encouraging than I expected. It shows that most respondents enjoy animation to some degree, if and when they watch it.
To the nearest 10%, what percentage of animation do you think is geared specifically to kids/young viewers?
- 0%—0% of respondents
- 10%—0% of respondents
- 20%—4.8% of respondents
- 30%—14.3% of respondents
- 40%—9.5% of respondents
- 50%—14.3% of respondents
- 60%—9.5% of respondents
- 70%—23.8% of respondents
- 80%—23.8% of respondents
- 90%—0% of respondents
- 100%—0% of respondents
I included this question to gauge preconceived notions about who animation is for. The answers fell right where I expected. The vast majority of respondents believe most animation is geared toward kids.
Considering recommendations from friends and family, critical reception, general buzz/word of mouth, how likely are you to watch an animated show or movie recommended to you? 1 being “not at all” and 5 being “almost certain.”
- 1: 0%
- 2: 14.3%
- 3: 19%
- 4: 23.8%
- 5: 42.9%
Here’s another hopeful answer. People seem generally likely to accept a recommendation and give animated content a try.
To the nearest 10%, what percent of movies and TV shows you watch would you say are animated?
- 0%—0% of respondents
- 10%—28.6% of respondents
- 20%—14.3% of respondents
- 30%—23.8% of respondents
- 40%—4.8% of respondents
- 50%—14.3% of respondents
- 60%—4.8% of respondents
- 70%—0% of respondents
- 80%—4.8% of respondents
- 90%—4.8% of respondents
- 100%—0% of respondents
I’d be floored if anyone said 0% or 100%, so that checks out. The 10-30% range contains most responses, though, and it makes more sense with the context of the next question added.
Which type of content do you watch more?
- Live Action: 57.1%
- Animation: 14.3%
- Both equally/don’t care about the format as long as it’s entertaining: 28.6%
Live action comprises the majority of viewing for most people, and the result didn’t surprise me. It lines up well with the question above, which shows people tend to dedicate a small portion of their viewing time to animation.
In general, (in terms of both animation AND live-action), which of the following formats do you prefer?
- Movies/specials (one-sitting viewing experiences): 4.8%
- TV/streaming series (episodic viewing): 61.9%
- Both equally: 33.3%
Tangentially related, but I thought this question would help hone recommendations for animation-hesitant viewers.
What does it all mean?
These quick-hit answers helped confirm most of my gut impressions about people’s attitudes toward animation. They generally prefer live-action, believe animated shows/movies are mostly for kids, and will only give something a try if they hear buzz about it.
That said, there’s still a cadre of people within my responder pool eager to gobble up animated goodness, so it’s not all bad news.
Beyond these data points, I included various questions with open-ended response fields, and that’s where people really shared how they felt.
Relationships to Animation
I first asked responders to describe their relationship to animation. Some offered paragraph-long depictions of their Saturday-morning cartoon binges growing up.
“I was a TV kid through and through,” says Dylan. “I always knew animation and it was always something I loved and didn’t really think about. I would watch the Power Rangers kick butt, then switch to SpongeBob SquarePants without missing a beat. These were entertaining, funny shows, and I didn’t care how they looked.” No surprise, then, that Dylan is one of my most animation-savvy friends. I credit him with getting me into Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood, which is now an all-time favorite.
Others echo Dylan’s thoughts.
“I grew up with animation, and have enjoyed watching animation grow up with me,” says Ian. “I couldn’t have imagined, watching 2D Saturday morning cartoons in the 1980s, that the artform would evolve to the point where the 3D characters in Monsters, Inc., for example, would be covered in hair that I could practically feel just by looking at the screen.”
Bonnie notes how animation was crucial to her upbringing: “I feel like I have grown up with animation. My family is Asian and my parents and other family members introduced anime/chibis/kawaii characters into my childhood at a young age. It was also a way for us to bring in more Asian culture into our Americanized home.”
“Growing up” appeared as a phrase in many responses to this question, though the connotations differed. One friend‚ Jacob, who actually inspired this article during an hours-long conversation we had about animation—uses it differently.
He says: “I loved [animation] as a kid and then I ‘grew up’ in a sense and started watching live action. I know in my heart that this is an immature view of the genre, but with so many things on my watch list, animation falls to the back-burner.”
There’s a through-line here. On one end of the spectrum, you have folks who grew up watching animation, then stopped. On the other end, folks who grew up with animated content simply never left it behind. But, as with any spectrum, there are lots of identities filling in the spaces between those two extremes.
“I watch animation right now because I have a toddler… I’m not opposed to it, just haven’t watched anything I’m super excited about,” says Amanda.
Colin, meanwhile, says: “I enjoy Disney/Pixar movies and some comedic animated shows, but I almost never watch or particularly enjoy dramatic animation.”
Then Richard (the same father-in-law who helped me build the survey), brought up an excellent point: “Not a big fan unless the animation only plays a supporting role to live action, like Rocket in Guardians of the Galaxy.” For some, animation becomes more palatable when it’s nestled in an existing live-action property.
Rounding out the responses are a few one-word answers: “Positive,” says Julia. “Pleasant,” says Heather, a self-proclaimed Disney fanatic. “Nostalgic,” offers Chris, potentially hinting that he grew up with animation like many others.
Everyone has a different relationship with animation. There are some opinions that will be hard to change. It’s okay, after all, to simply not like something and seek out content you do enjoy. However, many responders, like Amanda above, expressed tepid interest in animation with the potential to grow, were they to find the right show or movie. I’ll dive into recommendations further down in the piece, but for now, I want to explore what makes people feel one way or the other about animation.
Likes & Dislikes
By far the most common “like” among the people I surveyed is animation’s limitless potential.
“Animation allows shows to accomplish things that could not be done on the budget of a comparable show,” says Wu. “Multiple varied locations, fantastical backgrounds, massive crowds, and more aren’t possible in live-action except at a huge cost. This lets animated works be more ambitious in the kinds of stories they are able to tell.”
Possibilities. Animation is chock-full of ‘em, and those who enjoy the format seem to appreciate that aspect.
“You are not constrained to the real world,” says Matt.
“Fantasy and mythology are not cheesy when it’s animated,” says Sher.
Only one person couldn’t drum up any “likes.” That same ol’ pesky-but-lovable father-in-law dropped a “Not much” in response to this question. Sadness!
Pushing boundaries, limitless possibilities, and untethered storytelling. The vast majority of responses mentioned these ideas in some form or fashion.
Dislikes cover a much larger range.
“It is hard for me to emotionally connect to animated characters and believe their story arcs,” says Jacob.
Jim, however, doesn’t like the way others react to animation: He dislikes “that other people think it’s childish.”
More short answers enter the fray here, citing such dislikes as “Anime,” “potty humor,” “weird moving mouths,” and “it can be very gory.”
Chris says: “There are no problems with animation. There are many problems with bad stories and shallow characters.” Bingo, Chris.
“Some of it drags on too long and becomes too overwhelming to get into,” says Cameron, probably referencing Naruto, One Piece, and similar long-running anime. “Some great animation series are hundreds of episodes long and I hate starting shows that I know I’ll never get closure on.” (Okay, he’s definitely talking about One Piece.)
Here’s where I, as the writer of this article, insert my opinion! I believe everyone’s answers here are valid and should be appreciated.
I also believe, based on some of the responses, that many responders count animation out after one or two bad experiences without accounting for the vast pool of content available to them.
I have a hunch. I think many folks tend to lump “animation” into a single, nebulous genre, and it’s hard to break from that way of thinking. For that reason, they tend to bounce off and break away from animated content. Part of the problem could indeed be the gargantuan volume of content. How can you seek the kind of content you like when you’re unfamiliar with the format and there are thousands of shows? It’s a big hurdle, and I understand that.
Barriers To Entry
Speaking of hurdles!
Truthfully, most seem content to live in their chosen world, whether it includes animation or eschews it. A few reasons beyond the dislikes above popped up as barriers to the world of animation, though.
“I’m not a big fan of animated shows that lean into crudeness,” says Julia, citing Family Guy, South Park, and similar shows.
Stacy says “Potty humor,” and you bet she was the same person who said it above. But others disagree. Michael noted such shows as his favorite animation to watch. He just wants a good, stupid laugh.
“Dubs vs. subs,” says Dylan. “Sometimes I want to watch a show as I’m doing something else. If it’s an animated show with subtitles I have to read, I’ll have to hold off till I can give it my full attention.”
Matt brings up a point I want to reiterate before we dive into recommendations. “Now that I’m an adult I would enjoy animation more if there was more targeted to adults. The adult animated series tend to lean heavier in comedy, which is great, but I’d also like to see more dramas.”
[There are still a few sections to go until we reach the end of this discussion, dear readers, but please feel free to skip down and add your favorite animated dramas to the comments immediately, so Matt can get started right away!]
Animation vs. Live Action
Near the end of the survey, I asked responders to talk about the differences between live-action and animated content. I wanted to establish a foundation before asking everyone for animated recommendations, hoping they’d think about what makes animated content unique. They didn’t disappoint. Forgive the long quoted sections here; they gave me some good stuff!
Here’s Ian again: “The key difference is that animation automatically invites the audience to question the rules of whatever it is they’re watching. Live-action films/shows (even ones that rely heavily on CGI and take place in fantastical realms/distant times) are definitionally grounded in known reality. The decision to use animation as a mode of storytelling implies that anything can happen—from relatively mundane acts like a sinister lion leering in murderous jealousy (see the difference between the 1994 2D Lion King and the “photorealistic” remake that, while technically animated, was constrained by the musculature of real-life animals), to the bloodlessly comic exaggeration of Roger Rabbit having a fridge dropped on him while rescuing a baby in the opening of Who Framed Roger Rabbit). The best animation establishes rules and sticks with them (even if the parameters are fairly extreme). But the illusion of all animation is that, at the outset, we’re invited to believe that there are no rules—that reality itself is up for grabs.”
Like Ian, Christina cites two Disney films in her response: “Animated features can get away with a lot more creative freedom without taking the viewers out of the experience compared to live-action ones. For example, besides the obvious differences between the Aladdin animated movie compared to the live-action [remake], there was more creative freedom that kept watchers in the universe while Aladdin was in the desert entering the tiger’s mouth [Cave of Wonders] or jumping from rooftop to rooftop, whereas the live action was more constrained due to the limitations of live-action being more grounded in reality.”
The freedom allowed to animators by virtue of their chosen format creates a wealth of riches when it comes to artistic style.
“The ability to represent multiple locations, strange-looking characters, and large crowds is much more economical in animation,” says Wu. “This allows animated shows to have a wider range of styles. Animation also allows artists to emphasize certain aspects of characters to evoke emotion. Like how anime characters have large eyes or how Popeye has beefy arms and a face made of rubber. In live-action, we expect people to look more-or-less ‘normal.’”
“Animated shows can do anything,” says Richard, simply.
With those things in mind, I asked participants to recommend animated shows or movies, imagining the person they’re talking to doesn’t have any experience with the format.
Recommendations & What to Look For
Thus far we’ve discovered a few things. First, people’s reasons for liking or disliking animation are as varied as people themselves. Two people who grew up liking cartoons can hold completely opposing views on the format in adulthood.
Second, animation fandom or lack thereof can be polarizing, but it doesn’t have to be. People who enjoy animation tend to watch a lot of it. Those who don’t will staunchly avoid it. There’s plenty of room in the middle for the animation-hesitant to change their minds. Whether they’re scared of the sheer scope of animated media or worried they won’t connect with the characters, there are loads of shows and movies that can convince even the most jaded animation detractor to make an exception.
“Absent any other context, Spirited Away or Kiki’s Delivery Service,” says Wu. “I can’t imagine even the most ardent anti-animation person not enjoying those. Also if they are into comic book things, Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse is probably the best superhero movie. Also, snarkily, pretty much every CGI-filled superhero blockbuster is basically an animated film already. It’s just animated to look like reality.”
Ian drops a few recommendations as well: Akira, for action fans. Up for “breathtaking visuals and heartbreaking storytelling.” Richard Linklater’s Waking Life for “art house types…[it’s] a deeply weird, stream-of-consciousness walkabout, rendered in a variety of rotoscope animation styles.”
Mike recommends a few fandom-specific options: “Clone Wars if you like Star Wars. Any of the DC animated Universe if you like superheroes. It’s easy to jump in when you already know the world.”
A handful of shows and movies popped up in multiple answers. In no particular order, they are:
- Avatar: The Last Airbender, a franchise I’ve written about numerous times, and a recommendation I wholeheartedly endorse.
- Cowboy Bebop
- Spirited Away
- Death Note
- The Simpsons (a classic for a reason, many responders note)
- Pretty much any Pixar movie
If you started reading this piece as an animation fan, I’d wager a guess you aren’t surprised by any of these recommendations. To expand the pool, let’s look at a few responses to my final question—If you were to watch any animated content, what would you look for?—and recommend a series or show based on those criteria.
From Wu, who I know is already an animation fiend: “Since there’s already the problem of ‘too many things to watch,’ what gets me interested is word-of-mouth recommendations and prestige, i.e. knowing the studio/artists who created it. While watching something animated, I’m looking for the same things I ask of any media. What is this trying to say, is what it is saying worthwhile, and how well does it say it? The animation may or may not be part of an answer to all three of those questions.”
To him, I recommend The Secret of Kells, first recommended to me by my friend and media curator Andrew. It subverts animation norms and tells a story about self-discovery and expression. At 90 minutes, it’s well worth the investment.
Jacob: “I would want to be taken on an adventure. Animation has a limitless sort of creative scope to it and so I would want something that takes me into a universe that live action could never do.”
See the recommendations above, Jacob—namely Avatar: The Last Airbender and Cowboy Bebop. But for you, I’d also recommend Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood. If you aren’t emotionally invested and in for the adventure by episode four (FMA fans, you know the one), I’ll give you your money back. I also throw Netflix’s The Midnight Gospel out there, which features an animated adventure paired with deep philosophical discussion each episode.
Matt wants something “Light and fun!”
I offer Kipo and the Age of Wonderbeasts, a musical series set in a post-apocalyptic world ravaged by massive mutated animals. For a full primer, you can read my post begging people to watch it!
Mike: “Mostly entertainment or expansion on worlds I like. I also like to see things that are already completed/easy to follow in the background.”
I know Mike’s tastes perhaps better than anyone who responded to my survey. For him, I recommend Harley Quinn, which expands on the world of Gotham and is, in my opinion, one of the freshest takes on a villain in recent memory.
From Christina: Something entertaining and light at heart. Something with a good story that makes me feel good after watching.
Easy peasy, Christina! Kubo and the Two Strings will tick those boxes. It’s a criminally underrated animated film with an uplifting story and plenty of entertaining ideas.
“I’d want a large fantasy element and humor,” says Sher.
Disenchantment all the way. Matt Groening’s signature animation style and humor shine through in this Netflix series, and it’s a perfect blend of appreciation for fantasy worlds and comedic takedowns of their conventions and clichés. Amazon Prime’s The Legend of Vox Machina might also work for your criteria.
Amanda asks for “something that teaches me something/something insightful. Maybe approaches a topic in a way live action can’t?”
Amanda, BoJack Horseman is your show. You will laugh. You will cry. Your heart will break even as you giggle at a stupid pun. No animated series analyzes friendship, mental health, grief, toxicity, and fame like this one can.
Cameron asks for “something with strong character development and emotion throughout. Light-hearted shows are nice at times, but I love getting the strong emotional attachment to characters.”
Here, I recommend the anime Ranking of Kings, which has a cutesy pastiche but offers deep explorations of characters, their motives, and what they’ll do to achieve their goals. It’s an amazing story.
From Bonnie: “Uniqueness in their characters and faster storyline, great art/visual effects, deeper character development (I like knowing their backstories), and to see character growth.”
Made in Abyss, another anime, is an excellent arc for both of the main characters. It has a cute, distinct style and a heartbreaking story. Worth the watch!
“A unique story I haven’t seen before,” says Andrew. But here’s the problem, reader: More than half of the shows or movies named in this article are things Andrew recommended to me. Imagine a person who has seen pretty much everything on the planet. Now recommend something new and unique to him. This is not just a thought exercise; I’m hoping you’ll chime in with ideas in the comments!
Where Do We Go From Here?
The ball’s in your court, hesitant animation viewers! My DMs are open, and I’m ready to take you on an animation journey.
Truth be told, I’m still on that journey myself. I only recently started appreciating anime, and I still have all sorts of animated cultural touchstones on my To Watch list. By writing this piece, I hope I can bring more people into the conversation and relish the joy of discovering a new favorite animated show or movie along the way. There are so, so many great animated stories not named above that deserve their time in the spotlight, too.
I don’t know whether I’ll change any minds, going forward. Perhaps I’ll ask some of the friends and family who participated in this “study” to watch one animated show or movie each, then discuss in depth with them and come back with another piece diving into their thoughts. Until then, I’ll keep seeking out the best and brightest gems of the animated world.
***
Now, readers, I turn it over to you! What insights have you gleaned about animation in conversations with friends and family? What series or movies would you recommend to even the most animation-resistant people in your life? Have you had any success in converting the hesitant into the eager? Please share your stories and recommendations in the comments. I’d love to hear them!
Cole Rush writes words. A lot of them. For the most part, you can find those words at The Quill To Live or on Twitter @ColeRush1. He voraciously reads epic fantasy and science-fiction, seeking out stories of gargantuan proportions and devouring them with a bookwormish fervor. His favorite books are: The Divine Cities Series by Robert Jackson Bennett, The Long Way To A Small, Angry Planet by Becky Chambers, and The House in the Cerulean Sea by TJ Klune.
I grew up in that halcyon era of Disney and Warner Brothers animation which featured detailed drawings and smooth animation. I acknowledge that Walt Disney drove his workers as though they were conscripts or galley slaves, but, that said, their work was outstanding and beautiful to watch.
Even as a kid, however, I could tell the difference between early and late Warner Brothers and Disney animation quality, and that, more than any other factor, is the thing that turns me off of much contemporary animation: the quality and detail of the figures and backgrounds. I didn’t watch many other Saturday morning cartoons because of this; I tolerated Star Trek: the Animated Series because — well, because it was Star Trek. And I even watched a few episodes of Johnny Quest and Space Ghost because they were mildly intriguing, but I gave up after awhile. There is absolutely no way I am ever going to bother watching, for example, South Park or Bojack Horseman because, no matter how clever their plots or dialogue, I find the quality of their animation so abysmally horrid that it’s painful to watch, and why should I subject myself to that?
I think The Simpsons and Futurama somehow manage to pull it off, despite not measuring up to artistic quality of Fantasia, Looney Toons, or Studio Ghibli; they somehow strike the balance (or they used to; I haven’t watched either in years). And I do enjoy most of Pixar’s output and other similar, computer-generated animation.
So, basically, if you want me to watch your animated feature, put some effort into the artwork. Otherwise, I’ll happily skip it and watch live-action or read a book.
As a point of interest, film critics Gene Siskel and Roger Ebert gave Two Thumbs Up for Batman: Mask of the Phantasm and the 1995 Ghost in the Shell movie. In the case of the former, they extolled all the advantages animation offers for the superhero genre.
Like your friends, I had several who brushed off adult animation because all they knew were the network comedies, and they looked down their nose at the “potty humor” all while laughing their butts off at live action comedies that were just as crude. It was so frustrating seeing something that was exactly in their favorite genre, but they wouldn’t even watch an episode.
I think it’s always come down to them not seeing the distinction between genre and medium, a distinction that Guillermo Del Toro reminds people of every chance he gets, and a I love him for it.
In addition to the American cartoon stables of the late 80’s and 90s, I was just the right age when Toonami started airing on Cartoon Network as an after school block, so I was exposed to anime at that formative time. I credit that with never getting caught in that typical American mindset that animation is just for kids. Because Japanese anime runs the gamut from cutesy kids shows to literal pornography, the later of which I wasn’t yet aware of in the Toonami days.
I don’t know if I can recommend anything Andrew hasn’t seen, but I’ll try. These are a few that I’ve found to be a bit underrated, anecdotally speaking:
Space Dandy: Really fun sci-fi comedy. The main characters has one of the best pompadours in anime. Directed by Shinichiro Watanabe (Cowboy Bebop).
Birdy the Mighty: Decode: This is actually a remake of an older anime. Its a fun twist on the magic-girl transformation genre, with a strong sci-fi bend. And some great action animations.
Ya Boy Konmig!: This a recent one that caught me off guard with how much I enjoyed it. What if the famed Chinese military tactician Zhuge Liang was transported to modern day Japan and became the manager for an up and coming pop star? This anime answers that question.
I actually wouldn’t identify myself as an animation fan — and yet many, if not most, of the series I’m into these days are animated: Clone Wars, reboot She-Ra, Hilda, Avatar if I ever get around to finishing it. I enjoy Disney/Pixar a lot, and Secret of Kells was excellent.
Partly I think it’s the art styles. I’m not as particular as @1, but I do find a lot of animated shows aesthetically off-putting. (Even SPOP is a little more anime-y than I could have wished, having grown up on the ’80s designs, but hey.)
I’m also with Julia and Stacy in that the nerdbro humor of a lot of “adult” cartoons (like a lot of other “adult” media) grates on me. Give me the kid stuff and the actually likable characters, please.
Maybe more people would be open to “adult animation” if these companies treated animation as a medium open to adults instead of a genre mainly marketed towards kids. Because I would be open to an animated film noir, a romantic comedy, a western, a drama, etc. Where are those? Where’s the animated Better Call Saul or Mad Men spinoff, or even a ripoff, I would watch religiously? Or how about Star Trek? They have two animated series now, and neither are what I’d call adult. One is a kids show and the other is a bug-eyed parody. (But not even their live-action shows feel all that adult anymore).
I see mostly kids stuff, and that’s why I’m not interested.
Signed,
Old Grump
I’m a GenXer who grew up watching Looney Tunes, Merrie Melodies, The Flintstones, and other cartoons (anyone remember the one based on Greek myths and the one with the superheroes Diaper Man, Stretch Man, and Tornado Man?) . . . and grew to dislike animation when taking the class when working on my certificate in computer graphics in the early 2000s. I have watched an eppy or two of The Simpsons…it’s ok. I need to give animation another chance though!
I grew up on Warner Bros. and Disney. (My brother and I compare the edits we remember from the Loony Tunes cartoons, which bits of racism and violence I remember and he doesn’t.) I seem to go through a decade with one show in particular catching my attention. It was Robotech in the 1980s (thus pushing me towards anime), Sailor Moon and Batman: the Animated Series in the 1990s, Justice League Unlimited and Teen Titans in the 2000s, the rebooted Ducktales in the 2010s, and Miraculous: Tales of Ladybug and Cat Noir these days. That’s not to say that I’ve focused exclusively on one TV show, it’s just those that made the greatest impression on me then and now.
My tastes in anime have fossilized sometime after 2000; the newest series I’ve watched were continuations of old series – Sailor Moon Crystal and Cardcaptor Sakura: Clear Card. On the other hand, I’ve been able to watch more recent movies and enjoy them very much. The Wind Rises is one of my favourite movies.
I think one of the reasons why my viewing has changed is the availability of quality animation. On the one hand, there’s fewer anime on commercial TV in Canada; most of the series I watched aired on YTV or Space. I don’t subscribe to Crunchyroll or any of the other anime streaming platforms. I have Disney Channel, so I’ve been able to watch recent gems such as Tangled and Star vs the Forces of Evil. If and when those types of shows move to a streaming platform such as Disney+, I’m not sure I’ll make the transition. (It’s enough of a debate whether to get Disney+ just for Doctor Who.)
I will continue to enjoy quality stories and character acting, whether it’s ‘live’ or ‘animated’.
Personally, I really enjoy animated series that lean into the expectation of “oh, it’s just a kid’s show, don’t worry about it”. Shows like Adventure Time, Over the Garden Wall, and Star vs. the Forces of Evil all use a deliberately kiddie aesthetic to slide in some VERY complex issues, emotions, and storylines under the radar. One of my personal favorites is the anime Yuki Yuna is a Hero; it starts as a fairly predictable magical-girl anime, with just a few hints that something else is going on; then, about halfway through the series, there is a major tonal shift that both snaps all the previous episodes into a new focus, and sets up some incredible emotional payoffs down the line. Again, it’s not everybody’s bag, but if you enjoy shows that ride the liminal space between kids media, YA, and adult drama, it’s great.
As Japanese anime became more popular among adults, more and more Americans differentiate “anime” from “animation”. If the question asked is “anime geared toward children” – majority would have said no, as compared to “animation” which for many refers to Western-style animation and, unfortunately, it still linked for many to children.
drcox@6: The cartoon with Diaper Man was called “The Mighty Heroes“. “Based on Greek myths” is a little vague: maybe “The Mighty Hercules“? But there are other possibilities there.
Three out of the following four of these will probably already be familiar to most of this gallery; I note them here because I consider them highly recommendable to folks who might not otherwise watch them because they’re animated. One thing that most of them have in common, which I commend to readers’ attention: despite their original marketing being aimed at younger audiences, almost all of these focus either entirely or mostly on adult characters, or at least characters who are functioning as adults.
Anastasia
The very first time I saw this, I was struck by the fact that aside from the talking bat and Rasputin’s explicitly magical powers, this Don Bluth production was essentially both an old-school stage musical and a classic Hepburn/Tracy film – the chemistry between Anya and Dmitri catches just that vibe, and it is not a coincidence that songwriters Lynn Ahrens and Stephen Flaherty were and are well credentialed in stage musicals. The voice cast is outstanding, the dialogue sparkles, the songs are memorable, and the visuals are gorgeous. This is a movie that’s clearly written with an all-ages audience in mind, and I recommend it as such.
The Iron Giant
Just as Anastasia is a musical for all ages, this is a science fiction story but not (despite its literary roots) a children’s story. While we do have a child protagonist in Hogarth, the story revolves around Hogarth’s family as a whole – and Hogarth himself functions in some ways as the adult in his relationship to the titular Giant. The movie treats its thematic elements with care and sincerity; even though they’re polarized to a degree, they’re not softened for the sake of an action plot (as compared, say, to the various G. I. Joe animated series). Too, the visual setting makes this a period piece in a way that adult viewers will appreciate, while that aspect won’t register at all with young children watching for the cool robot and his very much smaller companion.
Gargoyles
Possibly the very oddest thing about Gargoyles is that its initial run was on weekday afternoons alongside (or opposite) shows like Tiny Toon Adventures and early Power Rangers arcs. Consider, after all – this was a show that’s part historical drama, part police drama, part Shakespearean high fantasy, part corporate intrigue, and part serious science fiction, all played with adult-level maturity and sometimes going very dark indeed. Not one of these is usually regarded as a kid-friendly genre (well, all right, I’ll give you the science fiction), and there isn’t a kid protagonist or a cute sidekick in sight (Bronx is many things, but cute is not one of them). Yet it is one of the most enduring and best-remembered series of the entire Disney Afternoon, and arguably one of the two or three best-written Western animated series of all time. If brought back today, it would almost certainly be either via streaming service a season at a time, or in network prime time (where I’d bet on it finding an audience right up there with Game of Thrones, given good scripts). Nowadays it is streaming on Disney+ (aside to #7: which has also picked up the Miraculous franchise here in the US).
Mighty Ducks: The Animated Series
Here’s where most of you are probably going Huh??? Because no, this has nothing to do with the live-action Disney franchise…it is, rather, a parallel but entirely separate Disney series which ran for one short season in the ’90s and vanished completely until the advent of Disney+. It’s still a show about a hockey team, but here the players are actual ducks from a parallel dimension, who’ve crash-landed in our world while fleeing the Evil Saurian Overlords who’ve taken over their home planet. This one is much closer to a traditional superhero/sci-fi cartoon vibe than Gargoyles, but the writing is still crisp, the worldbuilding is clever, and the series deserved rather better than it got from its initial run. (See also in this vein a non-Disney series from roughly the same era, one Biker Mice from Mars.)
I wanted to put in a good word for My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. It’s visually appealing, has great songs, and has writing and comedy that will appeal to people at all age levels. Their season premieres and finales are right up there in scope and ambition with those of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.
We could easily fashion a load bearing wall or two out of all the animation we own! Someone sell me their Famille Pirate series!
Thriller fans, I highly recommend the new to Netflix anime ‘Monster.’ It’s one of the best.
For anyone looking for drama who isn’t put off by genre – Arcane! It’s got the symbolism of a great movie, great music, and such great characters. I’ve watched it three times now and keep finding more to love every time.
Globular touched on this a bit in comment #8, but I think the assumption that “animation is just for kids” is paired with another unexamined assumption, that “for kids” means “unsuitable for adults.” I’ve found that a lot of the best kids’ shows are smarter, richer, and deeper than a lot of what passes for adult shows, because “adult” is all too often assumed to mean gore and sex and f-bombs and gritty, cynical hopelessness, and these are often used as a superficial veneer of maturity on shallow and unsophisticated stories. Kids’ shows don’t have those easy, superficial markers of “maturity” to fall back on, and so they often rely more on rich characterization, imaginative ideas, and philosophical themes.
Plus, of course, kids’ shows are made by adults who want to entertain themselves. And ideally, parents will watch their kids’ shows along with them, so it’s a longstanding practice to make kids’ shows work on two levels, with themes or innuendos that the adults will catch but the kids will miss.
When I hear people say they can’t connect with the characters in animation because they don’t look real enough, I have to wonder — do they read books? Or listen to audios? If you can connect with a story that has no visuals at all, surely it should be possible to do so with a story featuring stylized visuals or limited animation. They both require using your imagination to fill in the gaps.
Anybody who thinks Ghibli/Pixar/Disney/Dreamworks material is exclusively “for kids” simply doesn’t know what they’re talking about. They will certainly entertain kids, but many, many things in them come from, and speak to, life experiences that most children simply don’t have yet.
Entertainment that is *genuinely* aimed strictly at the young is much more like Paw Patrol. The contrast between that and the complexity of something like Frozen or Inside Out or Spirited Away or Kung Fu Panda is immense.
I forgot to recommend an animated film I did enjoy recently: Apollo 10 1/2. The rotoscoped style can take some getting used to, but once you settle in, it’s a fun slice-of-life story about living in Houston in the late 60s. Like The Wonder Years with rockets.
@16/foamy: My point is, I don’t know how our culture ended up with this idea that “for kids” and “for adults” are somehow exclusive categories in the first place. When I was young, there was a ton of stuff that was considered family programming, meant for the whole family to watch together. Many things were made to be suitable for young viewers while enjoyable for their parents. The G rating was understood to mean General Audience, i.e. everyone, not “exclusively kid stuff” like it’s assumed to mean today — which is why there were a lot of G-rated films that would be PG or even PG-13 today, like Star Trek: The Motion Picture. There was certainly stuff that was for adults only, and yes, some kids’ things that held little appeal for adults, but something being suitable for kids was not automatically presumed to make it unworthy of adults. There was a wide overlap between the two that was more recognized than I think it is these days.
Maybe it’s because there used to be just one TV set in most households and so people had to watch together. So the concept of viewing for the whole family was more commonplace.
I’d like to point people to Dicktown from John Hodgman and David Rees, which, despite the name, is not particularly crude, though it is aimed at adults. It’s about a child detective who grew up but didn’t move on and now, as an adult, solves mysteries for children with his former bully. It’s weird and touching and weirdly touching, sometimes poignant, very sharp, and very funny.
“When I was young, there was a ton of stuff that was considered family programming, meant for the whole family to watch together. “
That stuff still exists, but in any case I mostly responding to Old Grump over there; didn’t realize your post touched on the same subjects.
I agree that this seems to be the problem for many people – they hear the word “animation” and they are put off by the notion and misunderstanding that “it’s just kids’ stuff”. And whereas there are indeed a lot of content meant mainly for kids, as pointed out (the already mentioned “Paw Patrol”, etc.), I have seen a LOT of animated things that I would keep far away from children. While I often prefer live-action for some things, I agree with all those who have said that animation broadens the possibilities for a lot of stories that could not be (or would be too expensive to be) told otherwise. And there are some things for which it is the best medium.
I personally love animation – grew up on watching a lot of the same cartoons several here (I was so happy to see the mentions of “Johnny Quest” and “Biker Mice from Mars” as they are part of my childhood) and do not balk at seeing them with my niece and nephew, even though have not watched serialised Western animations on purpose for years. And yes, I am an adult, but I have never lost my love for the full-length animated features, be they by Disney or Pixar or anyone else. As much as I loved “The Little Mermaid” and “Aladdin” when I was little, I love “Frozen” and “Tangled” and “Coco” now, to name just a few. I have always found that they are never meant for children alone, but yes, they have something for every age group and you pick up things as an adult you never could as a child. Over the last decade or so I have also come to love animes (which, I agree with Masha @9, is often differentiated from hearing just “animation” that we subconsciously relate to Western products), though I prefer the movie versions as the series are often long and I have so much I want to watch and read that I do not dare pick them up (I do have “Cowboy Bepop” and “FMA: B” in my definitely-to-watch-someday-list).
Not sure if I dare to give any recommendations (I might be ending up too many!), but I may point out a few I myself am very partial to. From the Western ones, basically all the Pixar work, but found the aforementioned “Coco” to be a particular delight. “Anastasia”, that John C. Bunnell @11 already brought out. The mentioned “Spider-Man: Into the Spiderverse” was surprisingly excellent, and I myself adore “Spirit: Stallion of the Cimarron” – beautiful animation, wild horses, and songs by Bryan Adams – what more can one ask for? I also really like “The Dragon Prince” series – it is just so … warm and nice. From the anime side, I have a serious thing with “Banana Fish”, which I have mentioned in several previous comments – beautiful and brutal. I am also VERY partial to “Your Name” and “To the Forest of Firefly Lights” – a sweet and a bit sad-ending little thing that just stayed with me. And, of course, practically anything by Studio Ghibli is worth a watch.
If stop/go animation is permitted under this heading, then:-
Pretty much anything from the late Oliver Postgate’s studio [Clangers, Bagpuss, Ivor the Engine, Noggin the Nog]
Aardman animations. Magic with clay. [Wallace & Gromit, Chicken Run, Pirates: an Adventure with Scientists, Shaun the Sheep (especially ‘Farmageddon’, which had me helpless with laughter in the cinema)]
@15/ChristopherLBennett: I feel like that may be a generational thing, and something that was – shall we say – reduced for a while. Growing up in the ’90s, the (American) animated landscape was Disney Renaissance films (aimed at kids, with a few asides to keep adults on their toes), reruns of ’80s cartoon that were little more than product placement on a stick, or kid-focused comedy cartoons like Ed, Edd n Eddy or Rugrats that only rarely delved into characterization. Even “adult” outliers like Ren & Stimpy traded more in raunchy innuendoes than actual depth. Seeing shows like Adventure Time and Steven Universe – especially as I was starting to “age out” of cartoons – was like a breath of fresh air, saying that animated stuff COULD be meaningful and mature.
@23/Philippa Chapman: I can’t believe nobody mentioned Aardman before! Chicken Run and the whole Wallace and Gromit series are great examples of non-live-action features that are truly all ages, not specifically marketed towards kids or adults. Shaun the Sheep’s wonderful, but I don’t think anything tops the insanity of Curse of the Were-Rabbit.
My wife won’t actually refuse to watch an animated show, but her lack of enthusiasm is palpable. I often lament – half jokingly – that she doesn’t consider animation a legitimate form of entertainment, but it’s unfortunatly true. There doesn’t seem to be anything I can do to make her interested in anything animated, no matter how interesting the premise. I’ve tried to get her interested before and she will simply stop watching. I’ll be into whatever animated show it is we’re watching and look over and she’s playing on her phone.
Some people will simply never get over the idea that animation is for kids, and that’s that, end of story.
@24/Globular: Wow, I had just the opposite experience. I was thinking that part of the reason I never lost interest in animation as I grew up was because there was so much good, smart animated TV during my college years in the ’90s — Batman: The Animated Series and its successors, X-Men, Spider-Man, Gargoyles, plus some shows that were ugly to look at but very intelligently written, like Exo-Squad, The Legend of Prince Valiant, and Phantom 2040. And before that in the ’80s, there was a lot of silly toy-commercial stuff in American animation, true, but it was also the heyday of what was called “Japanimation” at the time, with anime imports like Star Blazers and Robotech showing how intelligent and sophisticated animation could be.
@26/ChristopherLBennett: Yeah, NONE of that was on my radar; maybe that’s a function of parental controls, or maybe I just wasn’t tapped into the mainstream. I’ve since gone back to watch a lot of that (especially X-Men), but that was only later, in my own college years. Even the anime available (on the channels I had at the time) tended towards the low-quality end of the kiddie pool.
Things the following recommendations do not include: Cynicism, nihilism, torture porn, cruelty disguised as comedy, gross-out “jokes.”
Things the following recommendations do include: Miles of heart, quotable lines, witty banter, gorgeous visuals in various styles, pathos, drama, high stakes, and comic relief. I know what I like.
For people who love to see beauty but don’t like musical numbers: The Tale of the Princess Kaguya, 2013 (Studio Ghibli)
For people who love to see beauty and do like musical numbers: Tangled, 2010 (Disney)
For people who are nostalgic about comics and like a serial format: Batman: The Animated Series (Warner Bros., 1992-1995) and its successors in the DC Animated Universe
For people who are nostalgic about playing pretend games of derring-do and like a serial format: Magic Knight Rayearth, 1994 (Clamp) and its sequel, Magic Knight Rayearth 2
Surprised no-one has mentioned the British animated feature Watership Down (1978), a mostly faithful adaptation of the novel. Probably because there are many people around today who were traumatized by being brought to see it as children because, “Oh, it’s a cartoon movie about bunnies.” It’s definitely not for kids (over 12 probably OK), with its highly realistic violence and dangers. There is some excellent voice-work, including what I think is Zero Mostel’s last role as the jaeger gull Kehaar (even if it’s just his voice, he’s still Zero Mostelling all over the place).
I’ve made a reputation as an animation buff, so I’ll tend to check out anything for at least a few episodes.
Narrowing down my list to things that might hook newcomers (and rarities that Andrew might have missed):
Samurai Jack: From Genndy Tartakovsky, this one is an homage to Japanese art cinema, with Tartakovsky’s trademark stylized designs, deliberately slow pacing, and use of silence as a storytelling device.
Genndy Tartakovsky’s Primal: Tartakovsky’s latest masterpiece, this is definitely not for children, and is actively as bloody and violent as a story about a caveman and a dinosaur would be.
Pantheon: A cyberpunk thriller about uploaded consciousnesses becoming new gods (complete with priests and worshippers). The first season is out (on AMC+), but the second (completed) season is in a vault somewhere for vaguely-defined tax purposes.
Trese: About a demon-exterminator in Manilla (which makes it stand out against the field of America-based supernatural series). Lots of bloody violence and body horror.
Onyx Equinox: An Aztec-era fantasy-adventure about a group of humans who get caught up in a feud between the gods. If you know anything about Aztec mythology and cultural practices, you know what to expect in terms of blood. There’s also some nudity and swearing.
Skull-Faced Bookseller Honda-san: A surreal-yet-totally-true comedy for anyone who’s ever worked retail (based on an autobiographical manga; the weird character designs are presumably to disguise real coworkers). Also explains a lot of trivia about the publishing industry in Japan.
Aggretsuko: A workplace comedy/romance involving anthropomorphic animals. This one’s pretty family-friendly, but the focus on Japanese office culture is probably something that would escape most children (despite actually being pretty childish, really).
OddTaxi: Another anthropomorphic animals story, but this one has a deconstructive twist (that I won’t spoil). The story itself is about a cab driver who gets caught up in a Yakuza power struggle (and some incidental murders/abductions/frauds), with clear parallels to Taxi Driver.
Gunsmith Cats: An OVA miniseries from the late 90s (based on a manga) about two women working as bounty hunters in Chicago, this is basically the 80s action movie that you may not have seen; it was inspired by The French Connection and The Blues Brothers, but it’d fit perfectly alongside Beverly Hills Cop and Lethal Weapon as well.
Space Brothers: An anime about two adult brothers undergoing astronaut training, and which is basically a love-letter to space exploration. There’s no real conflict here (other than the training), but a lot of slow-burn heartwarming drama about the complex relationship between the brothers and the various people who’ve touched their lives along the way. Any fans of Star Trek or The Right Stuff would feel right at home here.
Ghost in the Shell: Stand-Alone Complex: A classic cyberpunk anime based on the movie (which was based on the manga), SAC is (arguably) the best of the GitS franchise. Following Section 9 (the cybercrimes division of the Ministry of Public Security), it’s equal parts police procedural, cyberpunk action, and philosophy treatise –good for any fans of NCIS, The Matrix, or True Detective.
Golden Kamuy: A historical adventure (set around 1906) about a colourful cast of criminals and general weirdos hunting down a fortune in stolen gold. There’s a lot of focus on the Ainu (Hokkaido’s aboriginal people) and Japan’s complex early-20th-century history, as well as lots of (male) fanservice and zany comedy alongside the brutal violence; it’s as if the people behind Gotham tried to do their own version of Uncharted or The A-Team.
Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Die Neue These: This is the latest of many adaptations of a novel series chronicling the war between two interstellar Empires. It’s not without flaws (I refer to it as “Entitled White Men: The Space-Opera”), but if you’re looking for a dense, cerebral, and politically-minded space opera that Jean-Luc Picard might have watched (if only to debate), this might fit the bill.
Beast Player Erin: This is a show that looks like another Pokémon-themed story about a young girl who wants to tame beasts, but the twist here is that the beasts are actual wild animals (and there are layers of cultural and political baggage that shape the lives of Erin and her community as the story advances over decades).
Showa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu: A generational story about the Japanese traditional art of Rakugo storytelling (and thus a showcase for the voice actors), this is another restful slow-burn drama involving broken families, inheritance, sexism, and the artistic struggle of tradition versus adaptation.
@31/Cybersnark: My father was a big fan of Samurai Jack, and he would surely argue that the “silent” portions of the show were anything but — they used the lack of dialogue to tell a story through audio ambience and sound effects, which my audiophile father found brilliantly done.
Fascinating article!
This is a topic I’ve been pondering lately, because I’m a lifelong animation fan – to the point that it took me a long, loooooooong time to adjust to watching films in live-action. That was what bored me easily in childhood and even into adolescence; I often couldn’t sit through it unless it had some sense of a variety-show (Sesame Street, Bill Nye the Science Guy). I loved so many well-written animation shows (either cel animation or stop-motion), and until I got used to it, live-action always struck me like a step away from a default that allowed easy access to vibrant flights of imagination. And this was true even before Pixar, but seeing Toy Story in theatres did absolutely nothing to persuade 8-year-old me otherwise. Six years later, I went to see Monsters Inc. as well, even though I’m sure by that point I was wondering whether it was cool or not. Studio Ghibli I was a bit late to, but has left its mark in a characteristically gentle-but-powerful way on my psyche – there is nothing like it.
Adults still occasionally give me an, “isn’t that for kids?” but I’m long past caring. I still watch a lot of animation regardless – half because it still holds my attention easily and half because as an adult I’m fascinated by animation as an art form, and its history and technological aspects. I’m so pleased to see Cartoon Saloon highlighted here – The Legend of Kells is a stunner (back in early 2009, even the trailer knocked my socks off). Ethereal and so new. It pains me that I haven’t had the chance to see their other work yet. Hopefully someday!
Gargoyles remains a big highlight of my childhood, along with several other cornerstones (Animaniacs/Pinky and the Brain, the ’90s Sailor Moon, Aardman [I love The Wrong Trousers and quote it excessively], the Carmen Sandiego cartoon [I was obsessed with it as a child and bought a DVD of the whole thing in adulthood], the less-comedic Sonic the Hedgehog series [which wasn’t afraid to get dark, and carried an oblique but powerful anti-colonial message]). And some Looney Tunes shorts and Disney movies, though Disney movies were rarely the center of my world (at least until Frozen, which at 26 I stared at absolutely gape-jawed with heart emoji all around me – I guess it resonated!).
I only occasionally watch so-called ‘adult animation’ (and when I do it’s usually YouTube-based satires of video-game franchises, e.g. Dorkly), but the stuff aimed either at kids or at all ages catches my attention easily. I have a day-job that keeps me pretty busy, but in occasional bursts of spare time I’ve been enjoying Gravity Falls, which is charming and hilarious, and 3Below: Tales of Arcadia, which has all sorts of interesting worldbuilding and scratches the animated-sci-fi itch (I need to get to Star Trek: Prodigy). I should revisit Steven Universe, because I accidentally fell out of the loop with it a few years ago. For that mythical spare time, I also have queued up several fantasy shows I’ve heard good things about and suspect I’m going to enjoy the heck out of (Avatar: The Last Airbender, She-Ra and the Princesses of Power, The Dragon Prince).
I’m a bit surprised no one has yet mentioned Ralph Bakshi’s “JRR Tolkien’s The Lord of the Rings.” This film was made as an animated feature becasue at the time there was simply no other way to produce such a fantastical story. It’s just as much “for kids” as the Jackson trilogy is. It’s a shame executive meddling got in the way of a full LOTR Bakshi trilogy (and yes, I am aware of the Rankin-Bass Return of the King, but it just didn’t do it for me).
#16, 20. foamy.
Sure, I know those things aren’t exclusively for kids. But they’re still the same old twee adventure stories about how friendship is awesome and family is great, for the most part. All very good for the family. I’m just saying if animation wants to bring in a larger audience, maybe the companies that produce them should expand their scope of subject matter, tone, dialogue. Maybe stop telling variations on the same dozen jokes every movie. Looking at you, Disney/Pixar.
But really, animation has the reputation of being for kids because the major studios making it have been marketing the medium as such for decades. That’s why audiences have that impression. Because that’s what they’ve been telling people for so long. Now it’s stumbling around like the guy wondering why he’s not being taken seriously at job interviews. “Well, sir, for starters, you are wearing Scooby Doo pajamas and flip flops.”
@35/OldGrump: Yes — I’ve long believed that the reason Americans have this odd perception of animation as exclusively for children (a belief not generally found elsewhere in the world, I gather) is because of the disproportionate influence of Walt Disney on American media and Disney’s choice to focus on “family” content.
Though again, there seems to have been a cultural shift, since such things used to be seen as something parents would watch and enjoy with their kids, rather than something aimed at kids to the exclusion of their parents. There’s a certain elitism today, a notion that something can’t be “adult” unless it’s inappropriate for kids due to violence, language, or whatever. Which is an oddly immature and self-conscious way of defining maturity.
Interesting to read this thread.
My son was born in 2002 so I watched much more animation of that era instead of the 80’s stuff I essentially ignored being far more into D&D or Traveller RPGs at that time.
Two excellent shows I don’t see mentioned:
Transformers Animated: Took the tropes of the really quite overrated G1 and gave them excellent writing and made the good guys just a bunch of repair robots who were in way over their heads. That version of Megatron was actually a threat and Starscream wasn’t a one note joke either.
Kim Possible: a very genre aware show that combined good writing with humor and more than a few biting observations of culture and high school.
#36. CLB.
Right, the notion that “adult” automatically means that’s it’s a swing to the opposite extreme, full of sex, violence, gore, etc., is an odd one to have about adulthood. There has to be a middle ground.
On a positive note, I see Hulu just announced it’s bringing back King of the Hill, which was a show I enjoyed in its original run. I guess one reason, in retrospect, is because it did occupy that middle ground. It was neither a traditional kids cartoon nor an extreme “adult” something or other. It was a sitcom that just happened to be animated.
OK so: murder, depression, regicide, abandonment, survivor’s guilt, loss of parents, loss of siblings, loss of children, betrayal, manipulation, raw grief, moving *past* raw grief, adoption, abuse, abuse cycles, revenge traps, disownment and reconciliation… all ‘twee?’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6nVLvQOMLM
This is ‘twee’?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Wm_-8EMqL8
This is ‘twee’?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRsBMPnQYbQ
This is ‘twee’?
And that’s just stuff in the four movies I mentioned. They aren’t [i]cynical[/i] and they try to say “yes, these are things that can be worked through”, but the topic matter is quite serious and it is handled seriously [i]even if[/i] the characters are, you know, lions or whatever.
Disney’s headline movies are for [i]families[/i]. They haven’t [i]ever[/i] been just ‘for kids’, and especially in the modern era they deal with serious topics that, ironically, so-called ‘adult’ media sometimes seems to have difficulty handling maturely. Or at all. And this is also true of Pixar, and of Dreamworks, and Ghibli.
And actually, Dreamworks provides a really interesting couple of examples here.
From Dreamworks, you’ve got Shrek and you’ve got How to Tame Your Dragon. Of the two of those, Shrek has the signs of being aimed at an older audience than HtTYD. There’s cruder humour, it is loaded with references (and in a dialogue with) to a wider media landscape, and it exists in a pretty cynical attitude overall.
And yet, of the two, How to Tame Your Dragon is the more mature and complex film. The character work and their relationships are deeper, there’s more of them, they’re more nuanced.
And of course there’s so many more examples of animation dealing with serious subjects seriously in fantastic settings. Princess Mononoke. Up. The Lion King. Zootopia, Nausicaa. Toy Story 3. Avatar: The Last Airbender. For a more recent example, Turning Red.
If you can’t get past the colours to see what these works are talking about, that’s a you problem.
#39
Yes, all those themes are used and made twee and very bland, in my opinion. It’s not that I don’t respect the artistry involved, but I see a product that is packaged first and foremost for families. It’s all Disney or Disney-ish content I’ve already seen time and time again. As for the Japanese offerings, that’s a personal quirk on my part. All due respect to them, I just don’t enjoy that style of animation. I’m sure there is a vast, rich swath of content I’m missing, but I just can’t get past the visuals.
How could it be a me problem if it’s a matter of trying something and not liking it? There’s no accounting for taste, and I don’t find that to be a problem. Now, the homogenized nature of a great deal of American mainstream content and its habit of taking complex themes and making them dull, shallow, predictable (but marketable), that I think is a problem.
@40/OldGrump: “As for the Japanese offerings, that’s a personal quirk on my part. All due respect to them, I just don’t enjoy that style of animation.”
It’s a total myth that anime has only a single style. Anime is not a genre; it’s just the Japanese abbreviation of the English word “animation,” the word they use for all animation, and which Americans use selectively to mean Japanese animation. It encompasses a wide range of different visual styles that have evolved over the decades, and these days often consists of cel-shaded 3D computer animation.
Plus, of course, the big-eyed style that Americans think of as the stereotype of Japanese cartooning originated with Osamu Tezuka’s emulation of Walt Disney’s cartooning style. So it’s actually rooted in American cartooning.
#41
Fair enough. Though it’s not just the visual style(s), it’s also the subject matter of what I’ve seen. Sorry, it just doesn’t interest me. I still love Godzilla though, Japan, so don’t hate me too much.
Back to Hollywood. I was taking a look at the Best Picture nominees, and you know, any of those could theoretically be an animated feature: A biopic about a famous musician, a generational story about fighter pilots, a psychological drama about cancel culture, an Irish fable about two friends, on and on. But studios just don’t seem to see the value in animating these kinds of stories. And that’s the heart of what I was getting to here. If animation really is this big tent medium, then maybe they should start treating it that way. More people might find interest.
@44/OldGrump: “it’s also the subject matter of what I’ve seen.”
Same reply. Anime is not a genre, it’s a medium. It doesn’t focus on a single subject matter, any more than all books have a single subject or all plays have a single subject. Since the Japanese don’t share Americans’ bizarre prejudice against animation, they use it for every genre of storytelling, as much as they use live action. There are anime adventure shows, anime dramas, anime sitcoms. There are anime shows about giant robots or magical girls, and there are also anime romances, historical dramas, and sports dramas. (The Prince of Tennis ran for 42 volumes as a manga and 178 episodes as an anime.) There’s anime for toddlers and small children, but there’s also an abundance of adult anime ranging from racy sitcoms to hardcore horror porn.
“And that’s the heart of what I was getting to here. If animation really is this big tent medium, then maybe they should start treating it that way.”
Which is exactly how they do treat animation in Japan, so it’s ironic that you’d say that just a paragraph later.
These are all movies; I haven’t seen many animated series, mostly because they’re not available to me without subscribing to yet another streaming service.
serious memoir: Persepolis. I said to my friend after we watched it in a Toronto theater that it actually felt more realistic to me than a live-action film of the story would have—because you’re always aware on some level that a live-action film is actors in recreated settings, while the animation in Persepolis felt like you were watching the memories play out inside the memoirist’s head.
prison-break genre: Chicken Run
steampunk adventure: April and the Extraordinary World
superhero genre: Spider-Man: Into the Spiderverse
Celtic mythology: Song of the Sea
great old women plus the Tour de France: The Triplets of Belleville
I did love the one-season series Legend of the Three Caballeros—liked it way better than Original DuckTales and way, way, way better than New DuckTales. Recommend it to all who appreciate the classic Duck comics. (I realize there are far more of such people in Europe than in North America….)
For context: Gen Xer, grew up on classic Disney 2D animation and WB cartoons. Plus a lot of substandard Saturday morning animation.
It’s interesting reading the above discussion. It feels like there are two threads of remarks: quality/style of animation, and thematic/story content. Generalizing a bit, it reads as if those touting the complexity and diversity of animated stories aren’t really engaging with the comments about style.
With a good number of of exceptions, I’m NOT an animation fan. I like some – some – Pixar. I really liked Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse. I really enjoy Netflix’s Love Death + Robots. And I still really dig lush, smooth 2D animation in movies like Prince of Egypt, The Iron Giant, and The Princess and the Frog.
Despite multiple attempts over many years, though, I cannot get into or really enjoy cheaper animation and animation that’s generally in the style of Japanese anime. A current example is Amazon’s The Legend of Vox Machina. I’m a casual fan of the actual podcast/stream, but found the show almost unwatchable from a visual perspective. With the exception of select sequences, the motion is very “herky-jerky” – clear skipping frames to denote movement. As a viewer, I just can’t get past this: for my eyes, it takes me out of the story every time. It’s too much unreality, and it makes the visuals – pardon the pun – very flat to me.
For Millennials and Gen Zers who grew up with this more economical style of animation, I’m sure my protests feel strange or snobby. That’s not the intent, but I get it. At the same time, I’ve made enough good faith efforts to watch films and shows using this stop-start style of animation to know that it’s a bridge too far for me.
Upthread someone mentioned Netflix’s Arcane. THAT is a lovely, gorgeous show; I wish all animation could be that smooth and painterly. It’s just a feast to watch, plus there’s a rich, deep story and world to sink into. (I have no familiarity with the source material for the show.) I know Arcane has a budget most animated shows and features would kill for and that the comparison is perhaps unfair. Regardless, for me, I need the animation to be smooth and pleasing to watch, so that I can essentially forget about the medium and focus on the story. Animation that skips frames just doesn’t allow me to do that.
I’m really surprised that there’s no mention of the fact that the highest-grossing film of all time is animation, as is the fourth-highest – Avatar and its sequel.
44: I was taking a look at the Best Picture nominees, and you know, any of those could theoretically be an animated feature
One of them literally is.
Maybe it’s my neurodivergence, but the main reason I dislike animated shows is that you lose so much communication context. Without body language and nuanced facial expression it’s harder for me to get invested in the story and characters. Pixar absolutely works for me because they do all that. I can’t stand the anime style of the giant eyes. I don’t like comic books for the same reason. Some spare dialogue and flashy panels don’t grab me.
I grew up in the 80’s, loving animation and anime. Enough that after I discovered I wasn’t set to be an engineer in university my search for what I did want to do eventually landed me in a fine arts:new media animation degree.
So that really colours my perception and opinion of animation. So with that out of the way:
Animation is a medium, and as such the artists and creators working it in have strengths and weaknesses of the medium to play with. Time is so much easier to control in animation, so the matrix trick of bullet time became such a stable of so many animated tales because it was Easy.
The skill of the storyteller or the artists involved greatly impacted how that trick landed. In Shrek it worked fine, but it knew it was making a joke of it. Other movies? Perhaps not as much.
And that’s where personal taste also comes into play. I will happily watch pretty much any animation, because even one making mistakes can teach me what not to do or let me see what isn’t working _for_me_ and see how others take it. The Trigun 3D animated reboot doesn’t work for me at all, but I both loved the original series and dislike the loony toon physics that series is operating under.
Anime comes from a different culture, where it is quite accepted to borrow a theme from another show and merely wrap it thinly in a few ‘like X but with Y and Bigger!’
So I really enjoyed Spy X Family, enough I read the books as well and even subscribed to the magazine (online) to read it as it comes out. But the idea of a cute kid with a spy and an assassin as guardians wasn’t entirely new. (Baby blues the movie had two spies and the kid didn’t know they were spies because baby -for example) So this season of anime having a two male buddies are looking after a kid trying to keep the fact they are spies secret is very much in the three men and a baby mold.
Genre fiction exists because people have tastes. Anime has so many offerings that even without opening up the decades of great shows (and equally not great or downright bad) you could be spoiled for choice for things in just the last five year. The slayers movies are wonderful, silly fantasy movies that are quite likely to be far more enjoyable than the upcoming D&D movie. The slayers TV series is a little harder to recommend without conditions (the first couple episodes are outliers and it gets better, the 3rd season wasn’t the strongest and if you jump at the end of 2 I understand)
But there is so much out there.
First of all, I loved this article! Thank you for writing it.
I’m 22 and, like many of the survey respondents, I was introduced to animation when I was a child. If I remember correctly, Cartoon Network — my favorite channel growing up — aired Studio Ghibli films and a Naruto marathon back in the 2000s. I fell in love with Spirited Away and Naruto because of that. I also enjoyed Teen Titans and Courage the Cowardly Dog.
I, too, assumed animation was for children and thus stopped watching it once I started high school. But then in 2020, once everything shut down due to the pandemic and I had to take college courses online, I began embracing the nostalgia that a lot of young adults were tapping into. So, I rewatched part-one Naruto and the first Pokémon movie. Then, I got into watching more anime, which I attribute to my discovery of anime-loving Internet influencers like RDCWorld and the fact that anime became hugely popular on streaming services.
As you can tell, I’m more into Japanese anime and less interested in American animation. (I have re-watched childhood classics like Teen Titans and Ed, Edd n Eddy, though.) What I look for in animation are Shōnen anime with compelling characters and a lot of heart. I also love Studio Ghibli films and films that follow in the footsteps of Hayao Miyazaki.
If anyone’s interested, I wrote about my love for anime in this essay. You can also check out my website.
Arcane! Such a unique art style and adaptations, like expansions on an existing franchise, can be the push people need to try something new
The idea that animation is for kids seems to me as ridiculous as “fiction books are for kid”, “theater is for kids” or something similar. Animation is just another way to tell a story, or to be more accurate many more other ways to tell a story, as medium it is amazingly flexible – from traditional 2 d drawings, to stop-motion and claymation, to computer animation, to all the experimental ways one can make animated visuals.
And well. Is Shakespeare for kids only? What about animated one? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakespeare:_The_Animated_Tales I love this project, even though the plays are abridged, but the different stiles of animation add their flair to the stories told.
Now, for my favorites:
anime. I am not the biggest fan – I don’t dislike it, just haven’t seen a huge amount of anime as truer fans. I absolutely loved Carol and Tuesday on Netflix and Wotakoi: Love is hard for Otaku on Amazon Prime.
Maya and the Three and the Book of Life for the absolute visual feast.
My childhood favorite, The Plasticine Crow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsgGP3Oyk7E
I know, The Legend of Vox Machina has been already mentioned, but I am absolutely in love with it right now.
As a teenager I loved The Real Ghostbusters animated series more then the movie ( I know, blasphemy!) and as an adult I think it still is pretty good.
With my kids I watched The Penguins of Madagascar animated series that I also believe are way better than all the Madagascar movies together.
And talking about animation I can’t omit Yury Norshtein and his work. For the best sample – Hedgehog in the Fog https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThmaGMgWRlY
and the story of his unfinished masterpiece, Overcoat: https://collider.com/the-overcoat-animated-film-41-years-in-the-making/
I grew up watching cartoons, and as I grew older would watch animated films, mostly F&SF. I watch most current movie-lengh films, but also a lot of the various series animation. One of our cats is very fond of anything in the StarWars universe, so we try to rewatch an episode just before bed and treat time, to keep him happy.
For someone who’s new to animation, I definitely wouldn’t start with Spirited Away; it’s too far outside what most people are used to with live-action stuff and might turn them off of Ghibli altogether. If you want Ghibli, try starting them with something easier to follow; Kiki’s Delivery Service is great, and if they’re one of those people who thinks animation is for kids, show them Grave of the Fireflies to prove them wrong.
As for your friend who’s seen everything, I’ll recommend a hidden gem on Amazon Prime called Undone. It’s rotoscoped, which is a style of animation that takes a few episodes to get used to, at least for me, but definitely worth it, and pretty short at only two seasons. It’s a sci-fi/fantasy that uses the medium to the fullest in order to make the viewer feel sort of out-of-space with everything, and making you question what’s actually “real”
@49/Sharon: “I can’t stand the anime style of the giant eyes.”
Here we go again. Look at the montage of four images at the top of this article. The one anime character depicted there, the one on the far left, is the one with the smallest eyes of the four (well, maybe tied with the horse). Anime is not a style, it’s just the Japanese word for animation.
Oh! I just saw somebody recommend Grave of the Fireflies without qualifiers, so here are some tags for that movie and for the four titles/series I recommended above.
Grave of the Fireflies: Major character deaths, graphic depictions of wartime atrocities against civilians, body horror, hurt no comfort
The Tale of the Princess Kaguya: Hurt no comfort, people in power behaving badly
Tangled: Psychological horror, gaslighting, trauma, the work of getting over it
Batman: The Animated Series: Nothing they couldn’t show on Cartoon Network during the dinner hour, but the writers are really good at making you care about deeply damaged people who may never find their happy life, and also Mark Hamill’s Joker is genuinely terrifying. Additional note: The later sequel/spinoff series tend to be either loud and for kids who think farting is funny, or gory and for adults who think beatings are funny. Stick to the ones closer in time to B:TAS.
Magic Knight Rayearth & MKR 2: Establishes, in the very first episode, that magic in this realm is a function of the will. Then explores exactly what that entails. Major character deaths, heavy grief, hurt no comfort shading into bittersweet ending.
@55: I’d heard a lot about GotF over the years, and last night, funnily enough, I watched a discussion about it that was showing some clips.
… Even that was devastating. I don’t think I’m ever going to be up for watching the full movie.
I saw Grave of the Fireflies once, and it was harrowing. An incredibly powerful film about the aftermath of the Hiroshima bombing, important and meaningful but not for the faint of heart.
@59: The firebombings, not Hiroshima. It’s set in Kobe. Which makes the point all the stronger, in my mind.
I feel like part of the reason animation isn’t taken as seriously is because even when western animation doesn’t go the default “adult” humor route, it’s almost criminally under-marketed. Unless you’re in animation circles, you’re very unlikely to have heard of shows like Primal, Pantheon, Undone or Bee and Puppycat. Please try giving them a chance. We need more variety in western animation.
On a side-note, I still enjoy watching “kids” shows, but they definitely don’t scratch the same itch (especially when it comes to dialogue and voice acting). Even a masterpiece like Avatar sometimes has clunky “kids” dialogue. It’s a phenomenon I’ve seen almost no one discuss. A series could have brilliant characters, a tight plot, well-executed character arcs, and fantastic visuals with mature themes and plenty of drama, but if you hear any of them of speak for more than 5 seconds, even without any other context, you can immediately tell it’s a “kids” show. To me, it’s the defining characteristic of cartoons, rather than subject matter, art-style, or use of profanities. Watching something like Bee and Puppycat, it has all the traditional hallmarks of a “kids” cartoon, but you can immediately tell it’s not aimed at children after hearing any of the characters speak.
I have never understood people who love Star Wars or Marvel but won’t watch animation because “it’s for kids “. Like Star Wars isn’t? (I love Star Wars). Now there are people who don’t like anything fantastical. I don’t agree with those people, but at least they’re consistent.
@62/K: Excellent point. Star Wars has always been meant as children’s/family programming, with Andor being an exception. And yet many of its fans take it too seriously and are offended by the existence of Star Wars animated shows aimed at young viewers. People often see what they want to see rather than what is.
I note that IMDb tends to give me mostly animated shows as “more like this” when I’m on the page for an animated show. Not exclusively, but primarily. This algorithm seems to me to play into the misconception that animation/anime is a genre rather than a medium. I wonder how often animated shows pop up as “more like this” when you’re on the page for a live-action show? It would be nice if Persepolis showed up as “more like this” on the page for The Pianist or I Carry You with Me, for instance.
Kubo and the Two Strings is the only film (live or animated) that did away with the Evil Dead Redemption Trope where any villain who survives the final battle after helping the hero dies horribly somehow (Vader, Kylo Ren, Snape etc.). It is the one film ever that resolves the problem of what if the villain survives (ok, LOKI kind of does this, but by cheating with a branching timeline, which is actually quite ironic when you think of the Time Authority and all).
I had a cat once who was the same color and moved the same way as Toothless (you will undoubtedly recognize the name). After the cat’s death from a car, I cried every time I saw a How To Train Your Dragon movie.
I have been a Simpsons fan since the beginning (used to identify with Marge, but Grandma Simpson is where I’m headed). Lisa recently did a very apt song and dance about the hollowing out of the middle class, so the show has remained quite relevant.
And yes, Star Trek Lower Decks is dumb. It’s the ST equivalent of a Chipmunks movie (which I have also watched and enjoyed, because sometimes my brain needs a Danger Mouse kind of day).
Animation can break your heart (“I am satisfied with my treatment”). Or heal it.
I can’t handle certain animation styles (big eye small mouth for instance), so that is usually the thing that keeps me away from a lot of the recommendations people make.
But other than aesthetics, nothing keeps me away from a good cartoon. Even the kids stuff!
I balk at animation because some of the art is really ugly, like The Simsons’s for example. I did though buy the Studio Ghibli films for my kids and some of them they liked and some not. I miss well done animation that looks beautiful and has a really good story.
I work in animation and, to many of my peers’ disgust, dislike a lot of the classics. Disney/Pixar are technically incredible but never really do anything new, anime storytelling (possibly Ghibli excepted) is also oddly formulaic and often decompressed to the point of frustration. What I look for is innovation in terms of story, dialogue and visuals (same goes for live action, which I’m also supper fussy about). So the animation I’ve loved recently and would always recommend would be Over the Garden Wall, Summit of the Gods, Paranorman and The Wind Rises. There are tons more but I don’t want to get my nostalgia confused with genuine recommendations.
@67/Leticia Toraci: “I miss well done animation that looks beautiful and has a really good story.”
There’s still plenty of that out there, because of course animation is not all one thing any more than literature or music or food is all one thing. I just rewatched Avatar: The Last Airbender and its sequel The Legend of Korra, which both look beautiful and both have terrific stories (well, not so much Korra season 2). There’s a lot of smartly written, well-designed animation today. DOTA: Dragon’s Blood is a very good-looking, well-written series, albeit rather adult and quite violent. The more family-friendly The Dragon Prince looks amazingly good for cel-shaded 3D animation, although the first season’s animation uses too low a frame rate, and it’s got some excellent writing and character work with wonderfully nuanced antagonists (though I find the voice acting mediocre).
I feel if the survey had been made in France, Belgium, Japan, or even the UK, the responses would have been considerably different! It pays to also consider that reactions to animation (specifically in the USA) parallel those in reaction to the medium of comics, (bandes desinee, manga). This is a prejudice that has built up over time in some Western countries to a greater or lesser degree and again, primarily in the USA, which ironically can be considered the originator of the very mediums it so despises (or at least, dislikes).
Winsor McCay was not only a pre-eminent cartoonist (Little Nemo), he was also the originator of modern animation (there were others, in Europe, who had begun to experiment with the form, around the same time), using techniques that would be taken up by Disney and the Fleischer brothers, among others.
Years later McCay was feted by the animation industry at a dinner, but he was unimpressed by their efforts and berated them for not living up to the promise of the medium as an art form, To give Walt Disney his due, he did on a number of occasions attempt more serious exercises, but these failed commercially, and so he became averse to continuing down that road. It seems, by that stage, animation had already become embedded in the public consciousness as being “strictly kids’ stuff”, as were comics. A vicious cycle had set in.
Were McCay alive today, he might well be astounded by the technical strides that animation has achieved, but I suspect he would be less than enthralled by the lack of creative momentum in the industry. He would turn his eyes elsewhere – to Europe and the East, where there are fewer singing, dancing, funny animals!
So, a list of suggestions? Of recommendations? Although I personally enjoy some series, I agree with a number of comments above, that they are often too lengthy for a beginner, so I would rather list feature films, which are more digestible as stand-alone pieces. There are, of course, so many! But here’s a few of my personal favourites, in no particular order:
Garden of Words, Children Who Chase Lost Voices
Only Yesterday, Ocean Waves, Whisper of the Heart
Appleseed
Ghost in the Shell – all three movies, but especially the first one.
Paprika, Perfect Blue
Oblivion Island
Giovanni’s Island
Patema Inverted
Miss Hokusai
Summer Wars, The Girl Who Leapt Through Time
The Iron Giant
April and the Extraordinary World
Chico and Rita
A Cat in Paris
Osamu Tezuku’s Metropolis
Akira, Memories
Titan A.E.
The Red Turtle
Violet Evergarden the Movie (though the series is essential)
Cowboy Bebop the Movie (and again the series for context)
Oh dear… there really are quite a few!! And yet, so many more could be added. Both series and features. I’ve left child-oriented films mostly out for obvious reasons (cutey animals etc), to focus on less known films that showcase the range animated movies can reach. Most on this list feature strong character-driven stories, often the pacing is unhurried and contemplative, contrasting with moments of jaw-dropping beauty or spectacle. These are not “silly symphonies”!
@67: I distinctly remember my disgust when so many creators started animating either like The Simpsons or with that deliberately scrawly, shivery texture like The Critic. Ugliness is all around us; why would I want to see more of it?
But I also repudiate nihilism in both its “everything is awful, might as well wallow” and its “everything is pointless, might as well ruminate” forms.
I have to recommend Oni, which is a 4 episode mini series on Netflix. At 4 episodes, it’s basically a movie, but with nice little stopping points if you don’t have time to commit to a full movie sitting. Animation is beautiful, story is moving, I cried. For people who are already fans of Japanese animation, they’ll enjoy the cultural aspect of it. For people who are not familiar with Japanese myths and culture, I think it does a pretty good job easing the viewer in.
Here’s a trailer! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRLTcu8Sn_A
@72/Sam Roi: It’s worth clarifying that Oni: Thunder God’s Tale is an American production from a Japanese-born creator (a former Pixar animator who’s married to Hayao Miyazaki’s niece), and its original language is English. It’s definitely steeped in Japanese culture and myth, but in a way aimed at Western audiences. Still, its characters are meant to be speaking Japanese in-story, so I’ve been thinking of rewatching it with the Japanese audio track.