When I was a wee human, I was introduced to the terms “nerd” and “geek.” As a bookish child who was prone to crying and wore glasses that took up the vast majority of the real estate of my face, I was introduced to these terms via insult. “You are such a nerd!” and “Look at that geek reading the encyclopedia cover to cover! What a geeky thing for a geek to do!” (I really did read the encyclopedia cover to cover when I was in the sixth grade.)
I learned very quickly that “geek” and “nerd” meant the same thing in this context—someone who was socially awkward and also smart. And I learned that these terms were meant to be derogatory. Smart and awkward were apparently not good things to be.
Now, twentyish years later, some funny things have happened. Nerd- and geek-pride has become more prevalent in our technology-driven culture where superhero movies dominate the box office landscape. The terms “nerd” and “geek” have become badges of honor to many people (myself included). And more interestingly, the definitions of nerd and geek have evolved to mean separate things.
For over sixty years, we have been living with the words “nerd” and “geek.” The word nerd has somewhat murky origins, but it became popular in the 1950s as an insult for people who were book-smart, but lacking in social skills. The term geek has been kicking around for a much longer period of time and originally referred to carnival freaks—bearded ladies, merpeople, etc. Around the time that nerd was becoming the insult du jour for the pocket-protector set, the meaning of geek was morphing so that it meant, well, basically the same thing. A geek was a nerd, and a nerd was a geek and if you were a either, you were definitely a loser.
In the last few years I have gotten into more than a few late night discussions about what the terms “nerd” and “geek” mean in the modern world. The definitions of each seem to have as many variations as there are nerds and geeks: a nerd is someone who likes science fiction while a geek is someone who likes fantasy; nerds like math and science and geeks like the humanities; a geek is an Apple and a nerd is a PC; geeks like Marvel and nerds like DC; etc. This makes sense to me, in a way. Each nerd/geek, in the process of reclaiming and repurposing words meant to harm them, forms his or her own definition for personal identity.
However, there does appear to be a consensus emerging that bothers me just a little. The thing that irks me most is this consensus is not emerging from outside the nerd/geek community rather than from within. The consensus is this: The stereotype of the nerd is still the same. A nerd is a pocket-protector wearing, algebra loving, socially awkward person whom you might not want to be friends with, because, ew. A geek, however, is someone who likes Doctor Who, Harry Potter, and The Avengers, who knows their way around social media and carries an iPad wherever they go. A geek may like geeky things, but they’re kind of cool, you know? A nerd is still a nerd, but a geek is chic.
And it’s great that it is now socially acceptable, or even desirable to like Doctor Who, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, and Batman. If you go to the Gap or log on to Threadless, you can buy t-shirts with the X-Men on them. They sell TARDIS cookie jars at Urban Outfitters. Avatar is the highest grossing film of all time. I hold out hope that when I have children, they will not be ostracized for loving Star Trek as they make their way through school.
However, it is just as important—if not more important—that as a society we learn to embrace and celebrate intellect the way we have learned to celebrate passion for pop culture. There is a long history of anti-intellectualism in the United States, and anti-nerd stereotyping is a manifestation of that. Being good at math is still not “cool” to most people, and any teenagers would rather excel at sports than science. We celebrate athletes and pop singers while leaving librarians and engineers to toil in anonymity. When you ask someone what they think of a geek, they might have something nice to say, but when you ask them what they think of a nerd, they will probably give you a description that includes the same old stereotypes. Somehow, many people STILL believe that there is something wrong with being smart. Smart people are not attractive. Smart people have bad hygiene. Smart people do not have boyfriends or girlfriends. These are the negative stereotypes that will not die, even though they need to. When we separate pop culture geeks from book smart nerds, this is what happens. Embracing geeky/nerdy pop culture has been a positive step—now we need to take the next one and embrace intellect as well. Society needs intelligence. Engineers build roads and design state-of-the-art aircraft. Computer programmers build the web sites and apps that make our lives more convenient. Teachers educate and enlighten us.
As nerds/geeks, and especially as nerds/geeks who grew up in the pre-internet age, we know how it feels to be made fun of or beaten up because we are different. Whether you choose to call yourself a nerd, a geek, or a member of the Night’s Watch, remember that these terms unite us—we are all beings defined by our passions. When we are out and about in the world, it is important that we do our best to fight the old stereotypes wherever they rear their ugly heads. If you hear someone tell you in one breath that they are geeking out about Iron Man 3 and then in the next mock a friend who spent Friday night at home doing math homework, let them know that their logic is faulty. Celebrate the accomplishments of musicians, and artists, but celebrate great math teachers and electrical engineers too.
As the words “geek” and “nerd” continue to evolve, they may end up meaning very different things. My hope is that whatever their next permutations may be, when the average person hears them spoken on the street, they think “Oh, that girl’s a nerd?” or “that guy’s a geek? S/he must be awesome.”
When I say geek or nerd, I mean awesome. I mean “they have interests.”
Yeah, I used to think they meant about the same, until Hollywood types started showing off their i-gadgets and saying “I’m such a geek.” Honestly, 10-15 years ago if you asked me what it took to be either, I’d say the beginning of being a geek or nerd was the ability to code in Assembler. The cultural stuff came later…
I’m both a nerd and a geek, and while I love to fly my geek flag all over the place, I can’t fly it at work. Work is where I hoist the nerd colors, and let me tell you – it helps to be a grammar nerd, an algebra nerd, and an Excel nerd. NERDS FTW!
What ticks me off is the stupid stereotype that just because we’re fans of sci fi, fantasy, video games, movies or whatever we cant also be athletic or have active social lives.
I’m a freaking whitewater raft guide, I enjoy mountian bkiking,cross country running even Crossfit. I also happen to like Doctor Who, Sci Fi and Fantasy and even use Linux distros on my laptop.
How are they mutually exclusive?!
That’s why I want to throttle someone every time I see a preview for another borderline insulting “geek” or “nerd” gameshow or “Big Bang Theory”
Odd, I’ve been working off about the opposite definition of nerds and geeks (see the alt-text on xkcd 747) – basically “geek” implies deeply specialized and esoteric knowledge (e.g. computers, comic books, but also sports, literature, or live theatre), while “nerd” means interested in traditionally genre fields (computers, comic books, math and science, trains, what have you), and often lacking in social graces (though lack of social graces skews more toward “dork”).
I identify as a bookworm or geek/nerd. And I call my boyfriend a nerd all the time, but in an affectionate way. Because he’s extremely passionate about learning and I think that’s what being nerdy is about. And why should being passionate about learning be a bad thing?
@5
That is the meaning of otaku, a term which is starting to cross over from Japanese to English.
I can’t say I was a nerd by these definitions, when I was a kid. I was mediocre in math and science. And I would go toe-to-toe in a heartbeat with any bully. But I’ve always loved comics and books. However in the 70’s and 80’s those weren’t interests that one, especially a male, made known.
I do find it ironic how Geeks now, not only enthusiastically enjoy comics, books, science, movies, sci-fi/fantasy in general, technology, etc. I seen the term also encompance tattoo enthusiasts ( of which I’m also one) and even heavy metal music head-bangers. It’s as if the word geek celebrates what was once outcast groups.
I have always known that I was a geek and had a rather strong streak of nerd in me as well but I never really had the grades in school to be considered a nerd. I never cared because I’ve been forging my own path and have usually been ahead of the trends almost my entire life. I’m happy that the pendulum has swung our way, but I also look at the over all society and see just how stupid people in general really are and it makes me sad. Our educational system is failing kids and it has been for many decades. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/geek geek noun ?g?k: a person who is socially awkward and unpopular : a usually intelligent person who does not fit in with other people : a person who is very interested in and knows a lot about a particular field or activity http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nerd nerd noun ?n?rd: a person who behaves awkwardly around other people and usually has unstylish clothes, hair, etc. : a person who is very interested in technical subjects, computers, etc.
“Nerd” comes from the 1950 book If I Ran the Zoo by Dr. Seuss. How it came to be used as an insult is baffling—I can only imagine that somebody decided it sounded like a great way to imply that someone belonged in a zoo, displaying obnoxious exotic behavior, and it spread. (Never underestimate the power of a meme; I learned a “Viking attack chant” from somebody in my age group and then inadvertantly ran into one of the people who created an almost identical “Orc chant” twenty years earlier—and two thousand miles away.)
I love this post. :) Because yeah, I’ve seen a lot of debate in my time about the differences between “geek” and “nerd” and ultimately, it seems like they’re pretty much the same word these days. Even in this comment thread I see people expressing exact opposite interpretations of them.
I myself fall into the “nerds are more intellectually versed on a thing while geeks are passionate and obsessed on a thing” camp. There are things I’m a nerd about. There are things I’m a geek about. And there are things I’m definitely BOTH about.
Also, I have heard NERD thrown around as a semi-insult more often than I’ve heard GEEK used in the same fashion–which is pretty rich, because every time I hear this, it’s among software people, and we’re pretty damned nerdy, I’m here to tell you. As I point out every time I hear this. ;)
Or we could just call them people and move on. :)
I know, short hand identifers are the common poetry of society with all the thousand pictures in a single word but sometimes maybe it would be better to say more and see individuals as people who enjoy things instead of as a group composed of faceless people.
But that is just me. :)
Bottom line, you feel the need to insult someone to boost yourself, there is something wrong with you. That is the thing kids need to learn.
If I have it right, “geek” was originally worse — the circus guy who would bit the heads off live chickens. “Nerd” I never heard before Happy Days popularized it in the ’70s.
“Geek” and “nerd” were pretty much interchangeable for awhile, until the PC revolution. Rather suddenly, we realized that the richest man in the world was one of us, and our attitude changed. But there are always socially awkward people, and a lot of folks wh0 insist on insulting labels for anyone different. So the labels split: people who identified with Bill Gates (and a host of minor billionaires) called themselves “geeks”. This left “nerd” for the truly superior individuals to use on their social inferiors (he said with complete neutrality).
As someone who was a nerd growing up, here’s what it was in semi-rural Northern California:
Nerd: Socially awkward know-it-all
Geek: Socially awkward person who specializes in and obsesses over one or more related topics (band, sci-fi, sports statistics, comic books, etc.)
Dork: Socially awkward, but stupid
Dweeb: Especially socially awkward
Jerk: Mean
Jock: Sports player, especially the “manly” sports: baseball, football, basketball
Preppie: Smartish, but popular and stylish
Being a ‘geek’ just seems exhausting–it comes with all this baggage of having to belong to a particular group of fandom. Can’t I like Firefly or Star Trek without having to make it my identity? Sheesh!
If you asked me without giving me much time to think about it, my gut check would say that a geek is somebody who is obsessed with something (not necessarily sci-fi/fantasy – I had friends who described themselves as history geeks, lit geeks, etc) and a nerd is somebody who is very intellient, usually to the point of being a bit pedanatic or stodgy. Not necessarily mutually exclusive.
Growing up, I was a dork, though – no friends, buillied, socially inept, ugly, etc. Even though I was one of the smartest people in my class and loved science (although for a long time I wanted to be a writer or journalist), I don’t ever recall being called a nerd or geek – I was a dork (and many worse things besides that I don’t care to repeat).
I don’t think I actually became ‘geeky’ until I got really into Lord of the Rings in sixth grade, and Star Wars in eigth grade. Now I work at a software company where we proudly embrace our geekiness and nerdiness. Neither of the words have negative connotations to me, although dork still does (although I have seen it used affectionately too).
That said, I do agree that in general we shouldn’t be so hung up on labels and making sure we fit into an identity – but I think it’s part of human nature to try and classify ourselves so that we can then find a community.
@7 Otaku is not really starting to become part of English. Maybe in a niche anime/manga loving community within the niche of wider “geekdom” it is taking hold with the meaning you describe. Among other geeks/nerds at large you could say it is used to mean someone who is a huge fan of anime or manga. In mainstream society though, it’s not used at all.
From what I understand in the mainstream society of Japan, otaku has a very strong negative connotation in a different way than either “geek” or “nerd” does to the US mainstream. Both geek and nerd can be used as an insult but more and more are also kind of a term of endearment.
On the other hand to most Japanese otaku implies that the person is not only socially awkward but also that they have borderline mental disease and have a high chance of being a sexual deviant. For example, it is used to describe the group of adult men who obsess over preteen girls who participate in talent shows or people who have lost touch with reality to the point that they “date” video game or anime characters.
Knowing that, I could never call a friend an “otaku”.
I agree Lisamarie. Humans are basically pack animals still. So it’s in our nature to seek out groups to belong to.
And now that geeks and nerds are not considered as negetive terms as it did 20 years ago, its another group for people to belong to that wasn’t there before. Which is another point; I think its pretty common to eventually embrace labels that were once negative and make them into something positive.
I’m sure the it’s the social awkwardness more than the other qualities that made nerds a negetive term to start with. Cause I imagine being smart or well read in itself would only be viewed as bad traits out of jealously. A socially adapt person could be smart and well read and still not be considered a nerd.
My question is why is it that it seems like the majority of the very intellegent, seem to lack in social skills or in some cases the common sense that makes them awkward.?
Can’t I just be Aaron? I’m tired of labels, I am more then just a geek or nerd or spaz or otaku. Trying to conform to labels is what made my adolescence suck so much. Once I quit caring what group I was in, my happiness improved 100%. I like many “geeky” things, I also like sports, am a gear head, and can shoot a mean game of pool. I am me, it’s all I want to be, society can keep its labels.
Well, @9 and @10 don;t really agree, but I think the truth is in there somewhere…
@21: “My question is why is it that it seems like the majority of the very intellegent, seem to lack in social skills or in some cases the common sense that makes them awkward.?”
Because they spend most of their time thinking about stuff that’s irrelevant to normal people. Simple as that.
Yeaaaaah, no. I see absolutely zero difference between the terms “geek” and “nerd” and neither I or my friends have ever felt the need to define them. Especially in such a very, very specfic way. Wth?
@22
My sentiments exactly.
I honestly pity anyone who has one single trait that defines the entirety of their lives. Simply put, that’s not living. And to call someone by a term that implies that is nothing short of an insult.
From the original post:
nerds like math and science and geeks like the humanities
Huh. When I was a kid (1970s Atlanta), the definitions were exactly reversed from this. Nerds were humanities types, geeks were math/science. Full disclosure: I was a nerd.
Why are (some) intelligent people socially inept?
Well my father, an Oxford mathematics professor said it was because they are too often encouraged to develop one part of their personality at the cost of the rest. He and his colleagues had a programme to nurture social skills in the very young students that Oxford University attracted (14 year olds were unusual, but not rare). I recall us having these chaps round to dinner and being shocked at how poorly they behaved even though they were older than me. He insisted his children were more rounded which may be why none of us a geniuses!
@7 & 20
I’ve encountered at least one Japanese person who used “geek” as the English translation of “otaku,” and didn’t seem to mean anything disparaging by it (though she may not have been “mainstream,” given that we were both working on a horror film at the time).
And I seem to divide the terms pretty much like everyone else is: a nerd is someone who knows science/math (but may have no clue who Tyrion Lannister is), while a geek knows pop culture (but may not be able to help with your calculus homework).
@22 and others; In a perfect world we wouldn’t get labeled and we could all celebrate our individuality. I’m very much my own person, but that’s never gonna stop others from judging me in assuming I’m in this or that group. I think it’s human nature, we all do it, most times we are not even conscience that we are. For example, I work in your run-of-the mill big corporate office..( I know, I know, its a daily struggle not to eat a bullet). I see a dude come-by my desk in a jacket and tie, instead of just barely meeting the office-casual requirments, my first thought is labeling him as another corp A-hole. On that same note;
I have Super-hero figures and National Geographic Posters at my cubical. I also sport tattoos, both my ears are peirced, and I have an out-there haircut. You’re just as likely to catch me rockin’ out with my ear-buds in as not. So I know I’m getting judgled or labled in negative ways all day long, but I embrace it. Make it my own.
There’s nothing wrong with being labeled or grouped really, unless you it’s a label or group the individual doesn’t want to be associated with. Speaking from my own experiance; deep down nobody really wants to be a lone wolf despite what anyone says. We all want somewhere to belong.
@21 and 27; good points. I’m sure your onto something there.
@29 I realize the world and people in general will always label me. But those labels are destructive, they should not be celebrated or tolerated. I do not accept any placed upon me, and always will try not to label others. Just because the world works a certain way does not mean its the right way.
Me, I have moved past it. But I feel for the 13 year old who like I does not fit any label. I want to tell that kid not to force themselves into label. To embrace every facet of himself and celebrate it, not to hide it so they can better conform to a label that means nothing.
@30- “I realize the world and people in general will always label me.” That’s exactly my point. You can choose for yourself whether to let it be destructive to yourself or not. Cause society will always judge and label people. Embrace it, make it your own, and wear it like armor. That’s pretty much what seems to have happened with Nerds and Geeks. That’s why comic-cons and shows like The Big Bang are now a big success. A whole lot of folks will outright claim to be a geek or a nerd now-a-days. They were the name with pride and are glad to be part of that group. That would have never happened when I was a teen-ager.
@31 yes as adults we can accept these phony labels, realize they mean nothing and move on. It’s not so for adolescents, these labels are destructive, they cause nothing but pain. Being a geek or nerd today is just as stigmatizing as it was in 1985 if your 13. Just because nerd culture has risen to acceptance does not mean being called one does not harm a kid trying to figure himself out. It’s not for my benefit that I say labels suck, it’s for the young people, their the victims here.
@32- I get that. My own experiance as the smallest boy in class, who was also a preacher’s kid, and many times the new-kid too, not to mention I grew up in poor, rural, moutain communities. So I’ve had my own experiance with being labled and I totally identify with what you’re saying.
But back to Nerds and Geeks specifically. My 8 year old daughter has a T-shirt that says in bold letters “I Am A Nerd” and has buttons-pins all over her bag of The Avengers, Wonder Woman, Batman, Dr. Who, and even a newly aquired one the Rocket for Tor.com :). A good friend of mine has a 13 year old daughter, who wears black-frame glasses, has a hair cut that I could only compare to Cyndi Lauper, sports a Loki T-shirt, has piercings in her lips. And yes, some kids and even more adults, look down at her and her parents because of her apparance, but to many others she’s downright cool.
Instead of fighting a loosing battle with human nature and society, we should focus on instilling the self-confidence in our children to not let labels defeat them.
We can’t individually change society over-night, so don’t let society, dictate how we deal with being labeled and eventually the negative labels will be more positive, just like how the labels of Geeks and Nerds have changed for the better.
After all, we label ourselves as much or more so than society ever does.
I don’t disagree with anything your saying. Maybe my own past colors my present far to much. But I can’t get around the fact that repressing my geeky traits throughout my adolescence, left me as a fairly broken young adult with no real idea of who I was. While I do think embracing your inner geek is a good thing, embracing that label to much closes a person off to other experiences that lie outside of that label. Being a gerk is great, if it makes
you happy and doesn’t hurt anyone, you should go for it. But that doesn’t mean being a geek is better than being a jock, or a prep, a gear head, or any other label. Conforming to any one of societies labels limits a person.
I think – and this is just my own experience – labels can be helpful or positive in so much as they can help us find others like us to reach out to. They can help us be proud of what they are.
But, I think there is a flip side – once the label becomes rigid, and starts dictating your actions to the extent you find yourself doing things simply to fit in with the label, that’s where the problem lies. I know I have struggled with that myself. Or, if it starts to lead to a sense of us vs. them…that’s even more troublesome.
@@@@@ lisamarie 100% agree
@36- I also agree. That’s what I like about the whole geek/nerd thing , having a some like minded people to hang with, even if its mostly only in cyperspace. (although I’d be lying if there was a small part of me cringes just a little bit when referring to myself as a geek)
And I also dig that being Geek is still out there on fringes. There’s a 15 year old deep inside me that will always thrive more as an outcast than he ever will as being a normal, upright citizen.
Geekdom is our Island of Misfit toys!! :)
I didn’t join into this conversation earlier because I felt somewhat conflicted by the topic. I guess that, somewhere deep down in my psyche, that little kid who was bookish, shorter and skinnier than most, got glasses earlier than most, went through puberty later than most, and got called names, still lurks and still feels the sting of old insults.
I think arguing about the specific definitions of the words geek and nerd are largely pointless, as in general usage, the words have become roughly synonymous. I will point out to the person who stated that being a nerd was predicated on computer coding skills that I was branded a nerd because of skill with a sliderule long before I encountered my first IBM 360.
Now, how did I outgrow the ‘slings and arrows of outrageous fortune’ that I encountered in my youth? One of the touchstones I focused on was a statement I once heard from a wise old sailor. In fact, others may find it inspiring as well. He said, “I yam what I yam, and that’s all what I yam.” Truer words were never spoken.
Be content with yourself, and rejoice in the diversity of the world around you!
Geek to me still reminds me of the chicken biter. I’m proud to be a nerd, but really don’t want to be called a geek.
However, I just asked a Japanese friend I’m talking to online about the connotations of otaku, and she said “it just means someone who is obsessed with a hobby or subject, like a geek is.” It doesn’t imply mental illness or predatory men, just someone who goes overboard with something. I don’t think it will ever catch on here, because according to people here we have a word for what it means already. Even if it makes me think of the chicken thing.
To bypass all of the label-dissection happening in the comments and go back to what I think is the heart of the article: I think “geek” has become acceptable in our culture while “nerd” (as the pure intellectual) is still shunned because geeks have become tied very specifically to pop culture and pop culture makes money. Comic-con entry passes, tardis-shaped cookie jars, t-shirts, badges/pins, accessories ad nauseum are all *things* that can be bought, or more specifically, *sold* by companies who have savvy marketers. And because things can be bought by anyone and everyone who can afford them, this entire “geek trend” is just that: a trend that the masses can embrace while still looking down on the intellectual people who created the stories, images, and worlds that the masses enjoy.
For those of us who grew up as nerds and geeks (or like me, according to people’s definitions above – a nerd and a geek: I’ve always been an artist, a musician (choir nerd), and a writer but I was also a math and science nerd in school. I was made fun of for knowing things other people didn’t. My nickname was my GPA because it was irrationally higher than a 4.0 due to all the AP classes I took. But I digress…) As I was saying, for those of us who *grew up* as nerds and geeks, rather than “buying into it” (literally) it may feel good to be able to “be ourselves” without being mocked – like we’re finally part of “the in-crowd”… But when I see pics of a teen relative of mine on her social media profile – who only likes school for the social scene – donning chunky “nerd specs” for her fashionable photos (she doesn’t wear corrective lenses), I can’t help but roll my eyes and be acutely aware that while “geek” may be “chic” right now, as the OP pointed out, it doesn’t usher in an appreciation or veneration for intellect… for “nerdy” things like a real passion for learning that can’t be bought like a pair of glasses and tossed aside when fashion and pop-culture tastes have shifted.
I know I sound jaded, and to be honest, I am. Because people still get labeled and picked on and derided. So I have no idea where all this leaves us except hopefully a bit more aware. And hopefully aware of where the heart of our geek/nerd-ness stems: *not* from the “stuff” we may surround ourselves with: figurines, books, clothes, dice, buttons, dvds, etc, but from our passion, our intelligence, our curiousity. Our CREATIVITY. Be it in science, art, math, writing, cooking, music, etc…
@2, a childhood friend of mine used to always say he was a NERD, because it stood for “Never Ever Reads Directions.”
He almost didn’t graduate high school because he preferred hacking to homework. He now makes six figures programming in Assembly.
I fully support the breakdown of terms because I’m a nerd rather than a geek in identity myself. Not that I don’t enjoy sci-fi or play the occasional tabletop game, but it remains at core the issue of how one is self- and other-identified. Likewise, it’s ties to one’s inherent worldview to the fantastical.
I’m the sort who confuses my friends with long discursive references to Foucault and am in turn flummoxed by their references to some popular anime that they’re watching. I go to comics movies and watch episodes of Doctor Who alone on purpose because the fannish reaction of my friends viscerally frighten me and take away from my desire to intellectually dissect what I’m watching. When they run off to horror conventions, I go off to a museum.
There is a gulf that exists between the two ideas and there exists platonic ideals on both sides. That’s not to say that there isn’t a continuum inbetween that those can fall into between the Intellectual and Emotional reaction and identification with the Fantastic. It just happens that some are far enough to either end that blurring the terms entirely would do a disservice.
BTW, I haven’t played a video game in…eight years? And I haven’t *enjoyed* one and came back to it with proper expectation since the original SID MEIER’S CIVILIZATION (something about the sequels demanded TOO much time that could be spent on other pursuits, my common complaints of modern games)…
“The term geek has been kicking around for a much longer period of time and originally referred to carnival freaks—bearded ladies, merpeople, etc.”
close, but no cigar. #40 came closer. bearded ladies, merpeople, etc. were carnival freaks. geeks were a sub-set of that crew and did things like bite the heads of of live birds, reptiles and such and eating whatever the hell the audience threw into their cages.
freaks were often the result of things beyond their control (i.e. the “alligator boy” being someone who contracted a rare skin disease, the bearded ladies simply having a higher testosterone level than most females, etc.) whereas geeks were almost always self-made. as an example, Houdini once doubled in a ten-in-one as both the magician and the “wild man from Borneo” who did the whole biting off of small animal heads, eating cigars thrown at him, thing. the only difference was that he was too soft-hearted to actually do that so he simply faked it using sleight-of-hand. as a side-benefit, being a non-smoker he generally made points with others in the carnie by giving them the cigars that he’d supposedly eaten.
The terms are pretty much the same thing, the only difference is specialist (geek, i.e. computer geek, anime geek, etc.) versus generalist (nerd). They both indicate intelligence coupled with awkwardness.
The reason that geek has become more mainstream is that people have realized that nearly everyone has a geekdom that they are into. Everyone has something that they enjoy more than anything else…Whether it’s computer programming or the really great in their opinion, show that only aired a few out-of-sequence episodes before being cancelled, or that sitcom on tv that most of their friends think is moronic. This is something that’s universally understandable. A geek is viewed as a focused person, with a narrow band of interests, theoretically easy to push aside for “real-life”.
A nerd has many interests/fandoms, and is seen as more scattered, less able to push aside their nerdom. Nerds are seen as more likely to love knowledge for knowledge’s sake alone, and go out of their way to find it, whether anyone else cares about the subjects or not.
I am surprised no one from across the pond entered the discussion to tell us about ‘anoraks,’ who are apparently a kind of geek named after the jackets they wear when they go out and do things like watch aircraft land on runways or railcars pass through.
Or the political Washington DC species known as a ‘wonk,’ those people who disrupt political discussions with pesky things called facts and analysis.
Ummm no, anoraks are not like geeks. There is no assumption of intelligence, merely of knowing a lot about say train engine numbers and wanting to see all of the engines of a particular class. Anoraks are more than socially inept, they are socially isolated often not even friendly with each other. I suspect these days kids wouldn’t describe anyone as an anorak, but that they might well describe them as autistic (using the word as an insult).
ouch… ;-)
I married one!
@27 and @21: “My question is why is it that it seems like the majority of the very intellegent, seem to lack in social skills or in some cases the common sense that makes them awkward.?”
From my reading on giftedness, etc., it seems to me that this can be caused in part by the heightened perceptiveness/sensitivity that comes with “genius.” According to some studies I’ve read, intelligent folks are more likely to see through people’s masks and less likely to feel comfortable being fake or remaining entirely superficial. When there’s a great distance between what they perceive to be going on and the behavior that is demanded of them (like chit-chat or white lies), they get even more awkward. Having then failed to act “appropriately” time after time, they can become self-conscious, etc.
My stepfather, a bonafide, D20 toting, campaign writing geek defined the difference by the level of pendantic behavior. AKA, my info dumps meant I was a nerd (admittedly, about humanities generally) whereas his dynamic and engaged with this audience approach made him more of a geek. But IDK.
It’s funny, I was never a nerd, ie really smart. But I was a geek – I was in band and never sought to join the “in” crowd. By the way, I always thought the “in” crowd were mostly mean, and only talked about what people were doing – that they shouldn’t do or at least no one else should know about. I always said “who cares?” that is what made me different.
To me, the difference between the two is whether you are socially comfortable or socially awkward. I’m a senior software engineer working on cutting edge (sometimes bleeding edge) technologies, but I don’t wear a pocket protector ( who needs a pen when my phone has OneNote) my glasses aren’t broken and taped up (they are actually rather stylish frame-less rectangular that fit my face) and I’ve been married for 30 years to someone who tolerates my geekiness but still doesn’t understand when I “write” in the air trying to solve a particularly tricky algorithm (I must have done something right). I’m comfortable at gatherings and can chat with people yet a can do 4 digit by 4 digit multiplication in my head and spent my college summers doing definite integration in my head while working on a beer cart at the local theme park to avoid being bored out of my mind.
So too me the only real difference is the perception of others and if those who are getting the nerd label attached to them would slightly alter their appearance (nobody needs to use pens any more and just go buy some new frames instead of taping up the old ones) then their confidence would build and their awkwardness would go away in time.
But what we really need to do is *take back* geek as our own. Now, anybody who is obsessed with something calls themselves geeks. They are not geeks. They are fanatics which is where the term fan comes from. If you don’t have the intellect, you can’t be a geek.
Intellects of the world unite! Help your fellow nerds become geeks and take back the word geek as a proud badge only worn by those who truly deserve it, not some vapid blonde who has Hello Kitty on everything she owns but couldn’t tell you what 1111*2222 is without a calculator. (hint, it’s an easy ascending and descending pattern) or doesn’t understand why “I could care less” is *not* the phrase you should use!
Yeah, GTFO with your gatekeeping. I mean, if you want to be really pedantic about it, geeks were circus freaks, so….