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A Read of Ice and Fire: A Dance With Dragons, Part 34

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A Read of Ice and Fire: A Dance With Dragons, Part 34

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A Read of Ice and Fire: A Dance With Dragons, Part 34

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Published on August 20, 2015

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Welcome back to A Read of Ice and Fire! Please join me as I read and react, for the very first time, to George R.R. Martin’s epic fantasy series A Song of Ice and Fire.

Today’s entry is Part 34 of A Dance With Dragons, in which we cover Chapter 57 (“Tyrion”) and Chapter 58 (“Jon”).

Previous entries are located in the Index. The only spoilers in the post itself will be for the actual chapters covered and for the chapters previous to them. As for the comments, please note that the Powers That Be have provided you a lovely spoiler thread here on Tor.com. Any spoileriffic discussion should go there, where I won’t see it. Non-spoiler comments go below, in the comments to the post itself.

And now, the post!

Before we begin, Scheduling Note: I will be taking a wee vacay during the week surrounding Labor Day weekend, and thus there will be no ROIAF post on Thursday September 3rd. I know, you’re devastated, but I promise your hearts will go on!

Onward!

 

Chapter 57: Tyrion

What Happens

The healer declares there is nothing he can do for Yezzan zo Qaggaz, who is afflicted with the pale mare, and leaves Tyrion and Penny and Yezzan’s other “treasures” to clean and care for him as best they can. Tyrion feels somewhat sorry for Yezzan, who he’s learned has conducted himself with more honor than most of his Yunkish compatriots, but Tyrion is more concerned with what will happen to them when Yezzan dies. Sweets confirms that the “freak” slaves are unlikely to survive Yezzan’s death, but Penny talks hopefully of going to find the silver queen, or sailing to Qarth. Tyrion volunteers her and himself to get water, and reflects on the nice mushroom soup he’d brought Nurse right before the overseer had sadly succumbed to the disease himself.

Tyrion tries to order one of the soldier slaves to get Yezzan water and gets backhanded for his trouble. They tell him to get the water himself, and to take “the bear” to help them. Tyrion agrees meekly, and they let Jorah out of the cage he’s been put in for insubordination. Tyrion thinks that Jorah is a battered shell of himself who would rather die than live a slave, but fortunately Jorah doesn’t do anything but follow Tyrion and Penny to the well. Tyrion thinks the fact that there are unpoisoned wells within reach of the camp proves that Daenerys was “still an innocent” when it came to siegecraft.

The slaves in line are discussing the queen’s flight and whether she survived it, and Tyrion remembers how he had seen Ser Barristan next to her at the pit and almost revealed himself, but then considered that Barristan was unlikely to have any affection for Tyrion Lannister and did not. He regrets that they had been below being chained up when the queen flew away, so he did not see it. They get the water and head back, but Tyrion leads them a different way, telling them it’s quicker. Penny obeys without question, and Tyrion can’t decide if he envies her ability to trust despite all her suffering. She reminds him of Sansa, and even though he sometimes wants to scream at her, he has not, and has even sheltered her from some things, like the fact that he’d realized they were supposed to have been mauled by lions during their joust in the pit.

Jorah is amused when he realizes Tyrion is leading them to the tents of the Second Sons. Penny gets upset when she realizes Tyrion is trying to escape, but Tyrion goes on anyway, and she follows, as does Jorah. Once there, a serjeant recognizes them as the dwarves Ben Plumm had tried to buy, and takes them to the captain, who is with two other officers, Inkpots and “Kasporio the Cunning.” Plumm wants to know why “Yollo” is here, and Tyrion says that Plumm knows “Yollo’s” true name, and worth. He mentions his familiarity with Plumm’s family in Westeros, and (correctly) surmises that his Targaryen blood meant Daenerys’s dragons were probably fond of him.

Tyrion argues that Plumm will need to take him back to Westeros alive to ensure he gets his just reward, or better yet, Plumm could throw in with him. Tyrion tells him that he is very generous to his friends, and he can ask Tyrion’s former associates if he doesn’t believe him.

“Might be,” said Brown Ben. “Or might be you just made up some names. Shagga, did you say? Is that a woman’s name?”

“His teats are big enough. Next time we meet I’ll peek beneath his breeches to be sure. Is that a cyvasse set over there? Bring it out and we’ll have that game. But first, I think, a cup of wine. My throat is dry as an old bone, and I can see that I have a deal of talking to do.”

Commentary

Hahaha, Tyrion’s going to straight-up talk himself out of slavery. Because of course he is. Bless.

I mean, if it were anyone else I would be pretty darn concerned that this move constitutes jumping from the frying pan into the fire, but I have a lot more faith in Tyrion’s ability to bareface his way out of this than I would most other characters’.

And anyway, even going as a prisoner back to King’s Landing is an improvement over their previous situation. Because EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW.

Seriously, this one rated about a 9.5 on my Gross Shit-O-Meter. As in, the amount of literal gross shit it contained. Ugh, ew, blech.

I guess I feel… sort of sorry for Yezzan? I mean, at least he was marginally less horrible than 99% of the slavers, and that is truly a, well, shitty way to die. *rimshot*

Although, I might have to rescind the “marginally less horrible” judgment if he actually consented to having Penny and Tyrion mauled by lions in the pit. But I’m sort of under the impression that he didn’t, and it was Nurse who arranged it? But then again it doesn’t make sense that Nurse would just kill off two of Yezzan’s favorite slaves without his permission, so I guess he did know? And if so, that is seriously not cool.

Well, whatever. Dude’s going to be extremely dead very soon, probably even if someone bothers to go get him some more water. So whether he was a nice slave owner is no longer at issue—not for Tyrion et al, anyway. I hope.

The most insidious thing about bondage was how easy it was to grow accustomed to it. The life of most slaves was not all that different from the life of a serving man at Casterly Rock, it seemed to him. True, some slaveowners and their overseers were brutal and cruel, but the same was true of some Westerosi lords and their stewards and bailiffs. Most of the Yunkai’i treated their chattels decently enough, so long as they did their jobs and caused no trouble…

I remember reading Gone With the Wind when I was probably a little too young to be really reading such things, and being quite confused by the defensive tone in which the novel lauded the excellent relationship most Atlanta slaveowners apparently had with their slaves, no really, they loved one another! Because even growing up in Louisiana, I had not previously gotten the impression that slavery was anything but a very very bad thing, and this seemed to be saying the exact opposite.

Which, of course, it was, but it wasn’t until years and years later that I got to the point where I could understand the insidiousness, as Tyrion points out, of that viewpoint, from either side of the equation. Because I have no doubt that there were slaves in the antebellum South who were happy with their situations, who were lucky enough to be owned by people who treated them kindly and didn’t work them too hard and so forth and so on. But asserting the truth of that, I eventually realized, doesn’t change the fact that an institution doesn’t have to be all blood and pain and suffering all the time to be an abomination.

Of course, the irony here is that Tyrion doesn’t seem to recognize how thoroughly he has condemned his own more feudal caste system, by noting how closely it resembles slavery. Or maybe he does and just figures it’s the Way Things Are, but I was nevertheless reminded of that saying about whether a fish knows it’s wet.

The goat boy spoke up. “The silver queen—”

“—is dead,” insisted Sweets. “Forget her! The dragon took her across the river. She’s drowned in that Dothraki sea.”

Okay, so Dany and Drogon evidently headed for the Dothraki lands? I’m still sort of unclear on where that is exactly in relation to everything else; unless I missed something, it’s not portrayed on any of the maps in this book. But okay, I’ll go with the idea that they are generally northeast-ish of Meereen, sure.

Maybe she’s going to get her another passel of Dothraki to come take back the city with. Or maybe that’s just the direction she happened to be pointed in. Or maybe she wanted to reenact the end of The Neverending Story and needed some wide-open scenery to enjoy before going to scare her enemies into a dumpster. Look, I don’t know.

Tyrion’s comparison of Penny to Sansa was legit, at least at the point that Tyrion last knew Sansa. Post-Littlefinger, I think Sansa’s trustingness has been pretty well whittled down. But as to Penny, it really is kind of amazing that she’s able to maintain any kind of optimism whatsoever considering the life she’s led. But then, some people are just like that; I’ve met a few, and they are generally either awe-inspiring or incredibly annoying. Or both. But as a coping mechanism, admittedly, it beats the hell out of binge drinking and spreading STDs around, Tyrion.

And lastly:

The knight had not adapted well to bondage. When called upon to play the bear and carry off the maiden fair, he had been sullen and uncooperative, shuffling lifelessly through his paces when he deigned to take part in their mummery at all.

Ahhhhhhh CALLED IT.

Though I can’t decide whether to giggle madly that Jorah actually did play the bear, or to be annoyed that I didn’t get to actually see it happen.

 

Chapter 58: Jon

What Happens

On the day the wildlings are to cross the Wall, Jon wakes from a dream where he is defending the Wall by himself and cutting down the reanimated corpses of friends and loved ones, and wishes the Old Bear or Qhorin Halfhand or his uncle were there to deal with this. At breakfast, Jon warns the brothers that the first one who breaks the peace will lose his head for it. His honor guard includes Leathers, the new master-at-arms, to show the wildlings solidarity, and they go through the tunnel under the Wall to meet Tormund and his sons Toregg and Dryn. Tormund mocks Jon and Jon frightens his horse with Ghost in retaliation, and then the free folk begin their journey through the gate.

The hostages, one hundred young boys, go through first, and Tormund points out the sons of men of repute, including a son of Varamyr Sixskins. Two of the boys are girls in disguise, and Jon arranges to send them to Long Barrow with the spearwives, but demands two more boys to replace them. The last hostage is Tormund’s younger son Dryn, whom Jon promises to make his own page. Next come the warriors and spearwives, and some stare at him coldly, but others pledge themselves to Jon. They all surrender their valuables before passing through.

It goes on and on, and Tormund complains that the gate is too small, and makes a joke about using the Horn of Joramund to get the Wall out of the way. Jon points out that Melisandre burned the Horn, and Tormund laughs and says that they never found the real Horn. Jon is unsure whether to believe Toramund is lying or that Mance was. The wildlings toward the end of the line get antsy when snow threatens, and one man gets stabbed, but Toregg breaks it up. Jon asks Tormund to tell him about the Others. Tormund is reluctant to talk about it, but describes how they’d followed the refugees the whole way “nibbling at our edges.” They avoided fire, but if the fires went out or refused to light, they would always get a few. He talks of the killing cold mists they bring, and asks if Jon’s sword can “cut cold.” Jon thinks of what Sam had told him about his sword Longclaw, made of bespelled Valyrian dragonsteel, and wonders.

The line keeps going into nightfall, and at last Toregg and the rear guard approach, with Tormund’s best men “or his worst.” Among them is a man with a giant boar at his side Tormund calls Borroq, and Jon somehow instantly knows he is a skinchanger. He is the last to go through. Ghost snarls and the boar looks about to charge, but then Borroq calls Jon “brother.” Jon tells him to go through, and he smiles an ugly smile and goes. They close the gate, and Bowen Marsh tells Jon the tally: three thousand one hundred nineteen wildlings. Sixty hostages and many spearwives have already been sent off to Eastwatch, Shadow Tower, and Long Barrow, respectively, and the rest are here. Jon is bemused by the sight of Castle Black actually filled with people and light. He goes to his rooms, where Clydas brings him a message.

At Hardhome, with six ships. Wild seas. Blackbird lost with all hands, two Lyseni ships driven aground on Skane, Talon taking water. Very bad here. Wildlings eating their own dead. Dead things in the woods. Braavosi captains will only take women, children on their ships. Witch women call us slavers. Attempt to take Storm Crow defeated, six crew dead, many wildlings. Eight ravens left. Dead things in the water. Send help by land, seas wracked by storms. From Talon, by hand of Maester Harmune.

Cotter Pyke had made his angry mark below.

“Is it grievous, my lord?” asked Clydas.

“Grievous enough.” Dead things in the wood. Dead things in the water. Six ships left, of the eleven that set sail. Jon Snow rolled up the parchment, frowning. Night falls, he thought, and now my war begins.

Commentary

A mixed bag of a day for Jon, that’s for sure.

On the one hand, all the wildlings are across the Wall! And there was no coup or assassination attempt or riot or anything! No one died even a little bit! That amounts to a damn miracle in my book, so yay there.

On the other hand, Cotter Pyke’s message is beyond ominous. Not to mention confusing. By “dead things in the woods/water,” does he mean formerly-human wights for both, or are there like undead sea monsters too? Not that either is especially thrilling news, but I’m thinking an undead kraken would be even worse than a live one. (Assuming krakens are real here; I think they are, but you’d think we’d have heard of more ships being eaten/smashed by them if they were, and I don’t remember anything like that thus far.)

And beyond that, I’m bemused by Pyke’s plea to send help overland, because seriously, dude? To get to Hardhome by land you have to go through a place literally called The Haunted Forest. And I think we all know what it’s haunted by. Does he really think Jon has a force big enough to spare to… well, okay, I guess he does, now. But even so, trying to evacuate refugees—hostile refugees, at that!—through The Haunted Goddamn Forest strikes me as being cuckoo bananas.

Also, why are the Hardhome refugees so hostile, anyway? Didn’t that one witch woman predict to them that they would be saved by sea? Of course, I’m sure Pyke and Co. have been making an absolute hash of the concept of “diplomacy,” so that probably hasn’t helped, but jeez, people. Maybe don’t bite the hand that’s offering to feed you things that, you know, aren’t your own dead. Your own reanimating dead, at that. Yikes.

Plus, I am certain that this Borroq/boar wargperson is not going to be any trouble, at all. Nope. No way. NOT AT ALL. And if you believe that, I also have this awesome bridge I’d like to sell you.

He rose and dressed in darkness, as Mormont’s raven muttered across the room. “Corn,” the bird said, and, “King,” and, “Snow, Jon Snow, Jon Snow.” That was queer. The bird had never said his full name before, as best Jon could recall.

Hmm.

I don’t remember Melisandre burning the Horn of Joramun. Or, I suppose, the alleged Horn of Joramun. Maybe that happened off-screen? Or, I just forgot. Probably I just forgot.

Seems a little foolish, either way. I mean, presumably something that powerful could be made to work for the Night Watch/Wall defenders, not just against them, and if so you’ve destroyed a possibly invaluable weapon against the Others. But then again, if you don’t know how to make it work for you, maybe better safe than sorry. Assuming you burned the right horn, of course. I guess we’ll find out!

Also, if Tormund isn’t lying, it occurs to me that they’d better hope to hell the Others don’t have the real horn. Yeek.

…Although I’m still unclear on whether the Others have enough native intelligence to set up a battle strategy like that. Tormund’s description of how they hounded the wildling refugees on the way to the Wall (picking off stragglers and outliers, only attacking in bits and pieces instead of a full-on assault) sounds as if they behave more like a pack of hyenas following a herd of prey than an organized, sapient fighting force. So it’s possible that even if they found the real horn, they wouldn’t be able to figure out what to do with it.

One can hope I’m right—not just about the horn but about the “pack of hyenas” thing in general. I wouldn’t want to go up against a horde of supernatural ice monsters with the intelligence of hyenas, true, but I would pick that in a hot second over going up against a horde of supernatural ice monsters with the intelligence of humans.

But whatever with supernatural ice monsters, because look who got a cameo!

It was strangely comforting to see Edd’s dour face again. “How goes the restoration work?” he asked his old steward.

“Ten more years should do it,” Tollett replied in his usual gloomy tone. “Place was overrun with rats when we moved in. The spearwives killed the nasty buggers. Now the place is overrun with spearwives. There’s days I want the rats back.”

“How do you find serving under Iron Emmett?” Jon asked.

“Mostly it’s Black Maris serving under him, m’lord. Me, I have the mules. Nettles claims we’re kin. It’s true we have the same long face, but I’m not near as stubborn. Anyway I never knew their mothers, on my honor.”

Two, TWO Dolorous Edd quotes for the price of one! Yay! *is pleased*

And last:

And there were queerer things: a toy mammoth made of actual mammoth hair, an ivory phallus, a helm made from a unicorn’s head, complete with horn.

Okay, two things:

(A) MEDIEVAL DILDOS FTW. Excuse me, I have to go laugh about this forever. Talk about a “fuck you,” eh? Literally. Hahahahaha, awesome.

(B) Frickin’ unicorns again, y’all. I demand pictures of this unicorn head! No, c’mon, I really want to know if we’re talking “virgin-collecting ethereal white horse” unicorn or “rhinoceros mistaken for a unicorn” unicorn here. I’m serious, I need this information. I AM CONTINUALLY THROWN BY THE EXISTENCE OF UNICORNS IN THIS STORY.


But I shall have to endure it for now, because here’s where we stop! Have a lovely week, my darlings, and I’ll see you next Thursday!

About the Author

Leigh Butler

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DougL
9 years ago

Ramping up.

Have a good week Leigh, I hope you don’t like Shannarra, MTV somehow got the rights to make the TV version lol

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Tyler Soze
9 years ago

I wouldn’t hold out much hope of the Others not being sapient, what with their ice swords, armor, and such.

Can’t remember if it was here or in another chapter where Tyrion repeats the horrible old saw that “slavery is really a choice because you could always just die.”  Apparently people miss how it’s COMPLETELY EFFED-UP to impose those two choices on someone.  Took Tyrion down a peg in my book.    

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9 years ago

I always figured Sam’s horn was the actual horn. 

And the Others are sapient.  The wights, perhaps not so much. 

SlackerSpice
9 years ago

Poor old Nurse. Yezzan’s soldiers had tossed him onto the corpse wagon last night at dusk, another victim of the pale mare. When men are dying every hour, no one looks too hard at one more dead man, especially one as well despised as Nurse. Yezzan’s other slaves had refused to go near the overseer once the cramps began, so it was left to Tyrion to keep him warm and bring him drinks. Watered wine and lemonsweet and some nice hot dogtail soup, with slivers of mushroom in the broth. Drink it down, Nursey, that shitwater squirting from your arse needs to be replaced. The last word Nurse ever said was, “No.” The last words he ever heard were, ‘A Lannister always pays his debts.'”

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9 years ago
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9 years ago

Leigh, you apparently forgot but you did comment on the “Horn of Joramund” being burned by Melisandre. It happened in this very book, back in Chapter 10, and you commented:

“Well, except for the destruction of the Horn of Joramun, which I had to just laugh at, because in any other fantasy story that thing would have been sounded eons ago, whether for good or for bad, but of course ASOIAF has to go and frickin’ melt the Chekhov’s Gun down instead of firing it, because that is how this thang rolls. No trope too fundamental to subvert, apparently!”

So now we’re left wondering where the Horn of Joramund is. Is it the giant horn that Melisandre burned? Is it the other horn, that Jon sent with Sam? Is it as yet unveiled? Who knows? 

The Tyrion chapter was a great commentary on slavery, as discussed. Though I still find many of the Yunkaii to be too cartoonish to make really poignant statements about humanity with them. 

Any chapter with both Tormund AND Dolorous Edd is bound to have entertaining dialogue, and the two of them didn’t disappoint, even if I didn’t get as much Edd as I want. I’m sad he’ll be leaving Castle Black again… 

I’ve always believed that the Others are fairly sentient and clever, though it’s questionable how clever the Wights are (it seems like they don’t really have minds of their own, they’re just puppets controlled by the Others). Any way you slice it, “dead things in the water” sounds really, REALLY bad. 

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9 years ago

“Dead Things in the Water” reminded me of World War Z where the zombies can survive at the bottom of the ocean or River or lake and you had to be careful.

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Legendary
9 years ago

@5: Technically, that’s a map of HBO’s GOT. The ASOIAF map is different. Not in any way that matters for Leigh’s confusion, but still.

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HeySwanSong
9 years ago

You may want to go back and reread the last Arya chapter for an idea on why the wildlings at Hardhome are being so hostile to the people trying to rescue them by ship.

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CapnAndy
9 years ago

I really hope you’re going to do a GoT viewing recap when you exhaust the books, because God damn, what they did with that one small letter from Hardhome might be the show’s finest hour.

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9 years ago

The pale mare sounds a bit like cholera.  Urk.

At least Tyrion’s boot fits better now.  Is The Princess And The Queen from “Dangerous Women” going to be part of the read?  What about The Rogue Prince from “Rogues”?

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9 years ago

@9: I was just going to say that. And it also answers the question why the witch women are calling them slavers. Really bad luck, that the actual slavers arrived there first and tricked the people into being enslaved by pretending to be a rescue party.

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9 years ago

@10: And what they did with the rest of A Feast of Crows and A Dance with Dragons is a complete travesty. But never mind, one action scene with swords and ice zombies and everything is fine for a disappointingly large part of the audience…

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Tyler Soze
9 years ago

@13 – The bad does not wash out the good, and the good does not wash out the bad.

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9 years ago

Drink it down, Nursey, that shitwater squirting from your arse needs to be replaced.

When I heard Roy Doltrice say that in Tyrion’s voice I nearly drove off the road I was laughing so hard. 

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9 years ago

@5 @8 This map is correct but it is an older one and does not show the entire known world, made before Lands of Ice and Fire came out. There’s a map of the known world at the ASOAIF wiki that is based on Lands of Ice and Fire, a book collection of maps of the lands from ASOAIF.&nbspcomment image

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DougL
9 years ago

@@@@@10. CapnAndy

TOR has already paid someone to do the show recaps, I don’t follow that series but there is one on here. What I’d really love is for Leigh to do a proper reread. I’ve not been able to comment and we’ve not been able to discuss with her the various mysteries and intrigues that develop in the books because of spoilers. But Leigh was a frequent commenter in the old rec.arts newsgroup for Jordan’s books and maintained the FAQ, so I’d like to get into a real discussion with her again about these books.

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9 years ago

Leigh, you observed in your comment to Chapter 57: “and that is truly a, well, shitty way to die. *rimshot*”  Really, Leigh. The use of “rimshot” after talking about “shitty”.  

Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB 

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E
9 years ago

Nobody here seems surprised that Leigh didn’t mention that it was Tyrion himself who murdered Nurse. I mean, it’s pretty clear that the mushrooms were the cause of his death, right?

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steve_g
9 years ago

@19 I assume it is because its too spoilery as Leigh doesn’t want things pointed out that she missed in her own reading.

In answer to your question it is pretty clear, but it as been a long time in the weekly read since this particular chekhov’s gun was introduced.

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Tsathoggua
9 years ago

Ivory dildos are actually real – they date back to prehistoric times.

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Tsathoggua
9 years ago

Also, I think that krakens in the ASOIAF world are actually giant squids (or perhaps colossal squids) by another name. If one actually appears, I could be proven wrong, though; real-life giant squids can’t raise their arms or tentacles out of the water to destroy ships (as they were often believed to do in times of yore).

SlackerSpice
9 years ago

@20: (rot13‘d, just in case) V guvax vg’f yrff ‘gbb fcbvyrel’ naq zber ‘gbb fhogyr’ va pbzovangvba jvgu gubfr zhfuebbzf abg univat orra zragvbarq sbe n juvyr. Fgvyy, orgjrra gur pbzzrag nobhg ab bar abgvpvat nabgure qrnq thl va gur zvqqyr bs n cynthr, naq Glevba’f ynfg jbeqf gb Ahefr orvat gur habssvpvny snzvyl zbggb bs ‘Uryc hf naq jr’yy uryc lbh, uheg hf naq lbh’yy qvr n ubeevoyr qrngu’ znxrf vg cerggl pyrne gung Glevba urycrq Ahefr bss gur zbegny pbvy.

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9 years ago

If Wyman has the biggest cojones in Westeros, it’s only because Tyrion is currently in Essos. The man’s boldness continues to impress me. 

At separate times, Tyrion mentally refers to Sweets as “he” and “she,” while the soldier says “he” and Sweets never specified a preferred pronoun on-page. Interesting.

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9 years ago

Rot13’d.

@20: Ab. Vg frrzf cerggl pyrne gb zr gung Glevba sbeprq Ahefr gb qevax uvf bja fuvg (gung fuvgjngre fdhvegvat sebz lbhe nefr arrqf gb or ercynprq). Vg bayl ybbxf yvxr “jngrerq jvar naq yrzbafjrrg naq fbzr avpr ubg qbtgnvy fbhc, jvgu fyviref bs zhfuebbz va gur oebgu” orpnhfr gung vf jung gur yvdhvql rkperzrag ybbxf yvxr. Naq Ahefr xarj Glevba jnf sbepvat fuvg qbja uvf guebng, urapr uvf “Ab” naq Glevba’f “N Ynaavfgre nyjnlf cnlf uvf qrogf”. Ahefr jbhyqa’g unir ershfrq gb qevax vs vg jnf ernyyl fbhc.

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Tsathoggua
9 years ago

@25: I REALLY wasn’t expecting that, stated so seriously and yet so hilariously. That comment made my day!

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AJ
9 years ago

The wildings were reluctant to go with eastwatch men because  slavers had captured some wildlings before as mentioned in previous Arya’s chapter.

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Legendary
9 years ago

@16: No, 5’s map is *not* correct. The eastern edge of the map is VERY wrong. It remains the HBO official map because the east doesn’t really matter, but it is not a map for the books – the one you linked to (which has the Jade Sea in a very different location) is the map for the book continuity.

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Tim Wolfe
9 years ago

Hm, unicorns. Apparently big enough to make helms from their skulls — not sure if you could do that with the typical slender horsey-deer stereotypical unicorn?

The only other thing we know about them is that they only seem to exist in the far north, and supposedly on Skagos (an island people largely avoid).  That suggests to me some sort of hardy, maybe arctic creature or one that has otherwise been hunted to extinction in the South (like dire wolves).  In fact, given Martin’s propensity for prehistoric megafauna (dire wolves, aurochs, mammoths) I’m starting to think of unicorns in that category too.

Until better or contradictory information comes along, then, I’m going to go with something like <a href=”http://www.arcadiastreet.com/cgvistas/earth/04_cenozoic/images/woolly_rhino_1280.jpg”>a woolly rhinoceros</a> on this one.

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9 years ago

I honestly thought the unicorn helm was simply made from a narwhale skull – but a whoolly rhinoceros is a good alternative, given the existence of mammoths.

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Tsathoggua
9 years ago

Elasmotheriums were probably as close to unicorns as any animal ever was. That said, their horns at full length would probably be too long and heavy to be worn on a human’s head. Maybe giants wear them instead?

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9 years ago

Great post this week, Leigh.

Is it spoilery at this point to pontificate on future happenings that are beyond the currently written books? I guess I will go with yes just to be safe.

As far as the horns go, I will say that I don’t think Mel burned it. Well, I mean it’s possible Tormund is telling the truth and they only had a fake horn. But in the case that it were a real magical artifact I highly doubt it could just be burned without some kind of grand spectacle (and seeing as how the destruction went about off-screen, that doesn’t seem likely).

And yea I kind of forgot how BA Tyrion was becoming again. He’s finally starting to get past that depression funk and starting to sound more like his old King’s Landing self. It’s almost like seeing the dragon awoke something in him…

And I’m seconding a desire for a reread, if Leigh can manage. I think it would be awesome to actually discuss much of the spoilery content and fan theories surrounding things (in a more structured format than the spoiler thread, I mean). Don’t get me wrong, seeing a “first take” has been great as well.

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9 years ago

I too second naupathia in regards to a reread

dwcole
9 years ago

Oh the Irony in part of this heh.  Anyway, as I think we are approaching the ending now want to suggest Gene Wolf for read/reread next.  Would love for you to do the new earth series as they would work great for a weekly reread as you need a week to research and understand each chapter.  I like to think of myself as a reasonably well versed and educated individual but man were they confusing to me.  Love to reread and discuss them.  If you want you can even start with the best of short story collection which Tor published.  Not as great but still interesting.  Just lets move into something more classic quality fantasy than Shannara or D@D…these are honestly not much better than star wars novels..

Landstander
9 years ago

A quote from Jon’s dream: “Jon was armored in black ice, but his blade burned red in his fist.” Also, among the people he kills in the dream are Ygritte, Donal Noye, Qhorin Halfhand and Robb Stark. This last one after dream!Jon says “I am the Lord of Winterfell.”

Interesting dream. I won’t go too deep on analysis here, but the black ice armor is particularly relevant. The Lord of Winterfell bit is odd. Mormont’s raven said those things (Corn, King, Snow, Jon Snow, Jon Snow) right after Jon woke up too. I’ll just stop here.

I don’t suggest a reread. This would end up like the first WOT reread. Let’s just wait until GRRM finishes the last book in the series. It could take a while, I suppose. But rereading an unfinished series doesn’t work well. That’s just my opinion, of course.

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AeronaGreenjoy
9 years ago

@23: Ewwwwwwwww

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9 years ago

@35 There are at least two books left

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9 years ago

Oh geeze, I can’t say that EITHER of the soup ‘explanations’ had occurred to me but I’m not sure which one I like best, haha.

I’d kind of like to see Leigh do the show, but in kind of a sadistic way, so she knows our pain, lol.  Funny thing is, I didn’t even think Hardhome was that great in the show. It was just a generic action-y episode.

It’s not genre, but I’ve always wanted to see her do a Veronica Mars rewatch (or first time watch if she hasn’t already watched it)

 

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Aegon the Pot Head
9 years ago

@7

I’d be more concerned with whales and shark wights

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9 years ago

@8 @16 Thanks for the pointer to the correct book map, I did not realize that the book and the TV show have slightly different maps. 

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Kavau
9 years ago

“Or maybe she wanted to reenact the end of The Neverending Story…”

The Neverending Story is actually a fantastic book, contrary to the movie, which missed the main message of the book by a thousand leagues. You should read it! (Non-spoilery spoiler: the ending is nothing like the movie)

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George
8 years ago

I don’t think what I’m about to say is spoiler ’cause the read is over.

Am I the only one who thinks Tyrion did kill Nurse?  ‘Cause mushrooms – Tyrion had lethal mushrooms with him, and he remembers giving Nurse mushrooms soup the day he died. So Tyrion running away was a plan conceived beforehand and not some random decision.

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George
8 years ago

Hiw could wildlings know the previous rescuers were slavers when the latter waited long enough for the shore to disappear, if I remember correctly. And if thry somehow learnt, can’t they see the new ships have men in black? Of course they don’t trust Night’s Watch, but call them slavers?