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Can Anything Save the DC Extended Universe From Itself?

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Can Anything Save the DC Extended Universe From Itself?

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Can Anything Save the DC Extended Universe From Itself?

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Published on January 18, 2017

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“Hate” is probably not the best word for what I feel toward the DC Extended Universe, but it’s close. I’d say I’m really somewhere between searing disdain, deep frustration, and weary resignation, none of which are emotions any studio would want associated with their tentpole brand.

The problems with the DCEU are bigger than just three crappy movies. What failed in Man of Steel was repeated in Batman v Superman and Suicide Squad and will likely continue to fail in Wonder Woman and beyond. Warner Bros. knows they need to retool their format, but whether they can, and what shape it will take if they do, depends entirely on how much course-correcting new DC division co-runners Geoff Johns and Jon Berg can do between now and Diana’s solo film. They have an uphill battle, that’s for sure.

So let’s dig in to see where the DCEU went wrong and what, if anything, can be done to salvage it. Obviously, spoilers ahoy.

 

Batman v Superman: So many problems

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Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice encapsulates everything that’s wrong with the DCEU. After Man of Steel, I avoided BvS like the plague. I refused to see it in theatres and instead reveled in the delicious schadenfreude of the blistering reviews. I finally caved with the release of the ultimate edition when many fans claimed the additional footage improved it. I can’t agree: the movie was wildly unfocused and both over- and undercooked. Until the infamous “Martha” scene, Lois was stuck in a government conspiracy thriller, Batman in a crime procedural, Superman in an alien invasion story, and Bruce and Diana in a romantic spy caper, while Lex was busy playing the villain in a 1960s James Bond movie.

Not a single second of the movie makes any damn sense. Why was Batman wearing a trench coat over his Batsuit in the desert? How is Clark a successful journalist at one of the nation’s largest newspapers yet doesn’t know who celebrity billionaire playboy Bruce Wayne is? Why did Lex design logos for the soon-to-be-Justice League? Lois knows Superman can hear her halfway around the world so why would she think he couldn’t hear her shouting to him from ten feet away? Why is she even dating him, anyway? He’s a terrible boyfriend who would rather sulk on a mountaintop than have an honest conversation. Why hasn’t Perry fired Clark for disappearing all the time? Which is worse: Batman adding nipples to the Batsuit or molding a furrowed brow onto his mask? Why did the mental hospital shave Lex’s head? Is he actually crazy now or just a melodramatic douchecanoe? How come the Batsuit is bulletproof and fireproof but not knife-proof? Why did Lex bother to manipulate Batman and Superman into battle when he was building Doomsday anyway? Why were there so many goddamn dream sequences? No, you know what? I don’t care enough to want answers.

BvS is a bleak slog through poor plotting, CGI theatrics, and inexplicable acting choices riddled with sexism, racism, and ableism. It wastes every intriguing premise it brings up and blunders through coherency as if it were an undesirable attribute. It’s a terrible franchise builder that fails to establish an adequate foundation or build upon it in any practical fashion. BvS was created by someone who despises Batman and Superman and everything they stand for, by a studio that seems to demand adoration from the audience without offering anything worth adoring, and by actors convinced they were in a far better film. It offends me as a reviewer, a movie-goer, a comic book fan, a woman, and a person of color. Its very existence hurts my soul. Never in my life have I shouted at a screen as much as I did during BvS, and I used to watch soap operas. My contempt for BvS is so deep that my hopes for a decent Wonder Woman movie are now dead and buried.

 

Sound and fury, signifying nothing

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All of Zack Snyder’s movies suffer from the same glitch: he doesn’t so much make a film as shoot a bunch of music videos and splice them together. In other words, he’s great at visuals and crap at telling a coherent story—I’d tell you to see Sucker Punch to prove my point, but I don’t hate you. David Ayer’s Suicide Squad (produced by Snyder) was not as dour as Snyder’s films but still used the same template, complete with the requisite cheesy music cues and casual sexism/racism.

There were 8,927 competing yet incomplete stories in Man of Steel, Batman v Superman, and Suicide Squad. The frenetic pace leads to chaos as character development is reduced to abrupt shifts in personality, leaving CGI-laden set pieces to carry the plot. In order to get Batman/Superman/Wonder Woman and the Suicide Squad to their respective Final Boss fights they must unite as teammates, but the intermediate steps are missing; the script jumps from internecine squabbles to BFF territory with little explanation. Unification should mark a powerful moment that leads to a visually thrilling battle, but the emotional underpinnings and bonding necessary to make the whole thing work are frustratingly and consistently absent. Compelling character development is crushed under the weight of an overly complicated and disjointed plot, with CGI doing frantic jazz hands to distract the audience from the glaring problems.

*mutters under breath* Not that you could see anything anyway, the movies are so frakking dark and muddy.

 

Freshman philosophy

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Snyder’s DCEU movies tend toward empty bombast, hollow self-importance, and meaningless philosophizing. The most glaring example of this was the piled-on religious subtext in BvS. Over and over again Snyder posits Superman as a modern-day Jesus. He’s alternately a god, a false god, and a savior. Snyder repeatedly frames him in messianic poses and with religious imagery. Yet Clark seems perpetually annoyed that he has to save anyone at all—he acts like helping people is a chore rather than an honor, something he has to do not something he wants to do. Ultimately, none of the symbolism even matters. Superman makes Batman feel weak so Bats brutalizes Gotham’s underclass to make himself feel powerful again. Lex Luthor sees Superman as a threat to his power so Luthor Frankensteins a monster to reassert his supremacy. Superman goes out of his way to shame, taunt, and punish anyone who challenges his authority. Dawn of Justice is a three-hour-long pissing contest between a trio of arrogant assholes with bruised egos.

David Ayer also leans into unnecessary subtext in Suicide Squad. There’s a lot of talk about who the bad guys really are, vicious scenes of prison brutality (with an implication that the guards were raping Harley), and political corruption, all of which amounts to…jack squat. There are no repercussions for those abusing the prisoners and the gang hardly complains about going back to the abusive status quo. Criminal justice corruption isn’t portrayed as a systemic failure but as the result of a couple of bad apples. Just like Snyder, Ayer undermines his own point.

 

Great Expectations

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A franchise works best when the primary motivation is to stand on its own, with supporting, expanding, and improving the larger arc existing as secondary concerns. MCU fans had five solo movies before the heroes united in The Avengers, so we knew how they’d work together and where they’d conflict. And when the team fell apart in Captain America: Civil War, we understood them thoroughly enough as individual characters to buy the divorce. The DCEU jumped right into dawning the hell out of the Justice League without establishing what kind of people Batman, Wonder Woman, and Lex are on an individual basis, making their clashes with each other and with Superman moot.

Ultimately, the problem stems from Man of Steel’s failure. Because Warner Bros. chose to skip the step of building a foundation with a stable of solo films, Batman v Superman had the herculean task of not only making a decent, profitable film but also establishing and re-establishing a vast cast of characters, emptying a dump truck full of world building all at once, AND setting up every movie for the next decade. No movie could manage that—especially not one with Zack Snyder left to run amok with his obnoxious teenage boy fantasies. Because of that failure, all of our expectations were shifted onto Suicide Squad with predictably the same results. And rinse and repeat with Wonder Woman.

Why did the Flash, Cyborg, and Aquaman turn up in BvS? To set up the Justice League movie. Wonder Woman had slightly more to do but could’ve easily been excised with little detriment to the main arc. So why was she there? To set up her movie. Frankly, I’m surprised they didn’t shove the Joker in there to promote Suicide Squad. Warner Bros. set an overly ambitious film schedule then reverse-engineered movies to fit it, without allowing enough room to tinker with the formula or adjust for unexpected speedbumps.

 

Studio Meddling

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Look, I can’t fault the DCEU for opting for violent darkness as a counterbalance to the popcorn goofiness of the MCU, but if they were aiming for Christopher Nolan then they wildly missed the mark. A relentlessly grimdark tone, unpleasant characters, and gloomy plots in one film is a fixable error. Spreading them across every film in the franchise indicates issues at the studio level.

It’s not that the DCEU is trash and the MCU golden perfection. Both studios have a nasty habit of claiming diversity when they’re really just tokenizing and relying on overly-familiar tropes and stereotypes. The MCU has cranked out its share of jumbled rubbish, often balks at boundary-pushing directors, and has a harrowing studio process that’s unwelcoming to innovation. But I’ll give the MCU this: they know how to make an entertaining and enjoyable movie. Of course, both Marvel and Warner Bros. demand script changes against their director’s wishes and schedule reshoots based on focus group nattering…but Marvel certainly does not hire a company that makes trailers to edit their movie to undercut the director’s version, nor do they give their screenwriters only six weeks to write an $800 million blockbuster, both of which Warner Bros. did to Ayer’s Suicide Squad.

Solving a problem like the DCEU requires a multipronged approach. Simply removing Zack Snyder from the equation won’t solve the problem any more than somehow getting Warner Bros. to chill will—they still need a Kevin Feige, a person at the helm with the vision and perspective to keep things moving. Pairing up a couple of higher-ups from the two divisions—DC’s Geoff Johns and Warner Bros. exec Jon Berg—might work as a stopgap for some of the ongoing problems, but won’t necessarily foster an overarching creative vision.

Three mediocre- to-bad films is a hard precedent to break. The next movie released on their watch must undo Snyder’s damage while simultaneously crafting a creative shock-and-awe spectacle that passes the billion dollar profit mark. Wonder Woman could win an Oscar for Best Picture and rake in $4 billion and it still wouldn’t solve anything. Individual exceptionalism doesn’t cure a diseased system. From Wonder Woman on, every movie DC makes has to be great. In order to keep the waning fans they have and bring back the consumers they’ve lost, they need to prove they’ve righted the ship. Given that Snyder is a producer on Wonder Woman, The Flash, and Aquaman, as well as directing Justice League, I just can’t see that happening anytime soon.

Alex Brown is a teen librarian, writer, geeknerdloserweirdo, and all-around pop culture obsessive who watches entirely too much TV. Keep up with her every move on Twitter and Instagram, or get lost in the rabbit warren of ships and fandoms on her Tumblr.

About the Author

Alex Brown

Author

Alex Brown is a Hugo-nominated and Ignyte award-winning critic who writes about speculative fiction, librarianship, and Black history. Find them on twitter (@QueenOfRats), bluesky (@bookjockeyalex), instagram (@bookjockeyalex), and their blog (bookjockeyalex.com).
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8 years ago

I agree with everything here, but why do you keep calling it the “Expanded Universe?” Are you confusing it with the old Star Wars EU moniker? I’ve never seen these movies referred to as the DCEU. Wouldn’t it be the DC Cinematic Universe?

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walkerg42
8 years ago

Oh wow…I thought I was on IO9 for a second…I’m glad we’re pre judging the quality of movies before they come out, that keeps us from actually having to go to theaters or make our own decisions.  Is there going to be a follow up article on how the majority of Marvel movies have been a paint by the numbers disappointing slog (Thor 2, Iron Man 2, Iron Man 3, Age of Ultron, Thor)…I’m not claiming there’s a Marvel bias here, its just that it seems every that a lot of geek sites write they’re yearly “Why DC movies suck” column (no matter how may fans may or may not like the actual movies named) and its just getting tiresome. I’m not saying you can’t have an opinion (and Jesus, can we get over this personalized Zack Snyder hate, its just bloody juvenile) I’m just tired of the same regurgitated arguments..by the way, I liked Man of Steel, and B vs S, and I also had major problems with Suicide Squad…the main problems being it was a non sensical mess of a plot, Wil Smith was completely miscast, and it was a ridiculous mission to send the Squad on…but I’m actually going to wait and watch the sequel on its own merits…I know, screw me right.

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8 years ago

I am basically done with both the MCU and DCEU big screen movies at this point. But I’ll be sticking with Netflix and the CW shows for a long while yet. I just can not take any more over produced big budget super hero stories, which have little to no redeeming qualities about them, but Ill gladly binge watch a Netflix show or make the CW shows appointment viewing.

 Not sure how I can hate one side of the coin so much and love the other to itty bitty pieces.

 

BMcGovern
Admin
8 years ago

@1 and : Sorry, that was indeed an error on our part (Alex had written “DCEU” throughout)–apologies for the mistake, which has been corrected.

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8 years ago

Not pre-judging movies is silly If you have not liked any DC movies do you HAVE to see another out of some notion of fairness?

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Theo16
8 years ago

acting choices riddled with sexism, racism, and ableism

 

I’m curious how you can tell the difference between terrible plot, story and character choices and “sexism, racism, and ableism.”  

It’s hard to pay close enough attention to that film to see any of those things. But I guess given these movies, I’m more inclined to assume stupidity and studio-meddling over actual malice or intentional -isms.

 

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8 years ago

I liked most Marvel movies. Problem being Captain America 3  took their main plot “oh my god how do we control these people as far as it could Go.

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8 years ago

At this point, I’d much rather see an Arrowverse movie than anything from the DCEU.

I’m not sure why people put any faith in Geoff Johns helping the movies out.  He’s never written a comic I found enjoyable.  I absolutely despise his Green Lantern comics and the Green Lantern movie wasn’t a creative tour de force by any means.

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headcannon
8 years ago

Paint-by-the-numbers writing here. Alex’s problem with BmVSm make me doubt he/she has ever seen or read anything in the superhero genre.

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8 years ago

I liked Man of Steel, loathed BvS. Didn’t bother with Suicide Squad. But Wonder Woman, that I haven’t seen yet and have some small hope for.

Anyway, they just need to make better films. I might not watch them, since I don’t like the stylistic pathway that they’ve started down, but the films can get better if they put more effort into sensible storytelling.

Unfortunately, I think that the negative response to the Nolan-esque approach to Superman in Man of Steel is what got us in this predicament. Instead of course-correcting simply by lightening things up a bit, they decided to go darker and invite in the clowns. That undercut the serious foundation laid by MoS, without adequately addressing any of that film’s issues.

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8 years ago

I am a lifelong DC Comics fan, but I have no love for Snyder’s Murderverse. When Batman and Superman show zero concern for human life then you are doing something wrong. 

My question is how far does this go until they pull the plug? They’re certainly making obscene money, but not what many executives feel they should be making. How many critical assaults and not-quite-what-it-should-be box office hauls does Warner accumulate before they undergo a poorly thought out reboot and we get the Sunny Sunshine DC Universe that over corrects?

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8 years ago

@vinsentient 14. AlexBrown

Arrowverse Superman is pretty perfect though. I’ve always been a pretty solid Batman fan, but I cannot stop from just grinning at the sheer boy scoutyness Tyler Hoechlin brings to the screen. 

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ad
8 years ago

give their screenwriters only six weeks to write an $800 million blockbuster, both of which Warner Bros. did to Ayer’s Suicide Squad.

 

Why does Hollywood do this sort of thing? Would it kill them to spend the time to get a good script before spending $800 million? Maybe that is Pixars advantage – since they cannot bang a movie out in less than a few years, however many corner they cut, they are never tempted to try.

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8 years ago

1. Warner Bros can’t lose the rights to DC comics cause WB has  owns it outright since the late 60s

2,. Superman as a messianic being has been part of the Superman Mythos since the Superman (1978) Film, if anything most of the comics post-crisis treated him as a Moses figure

 

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Jermiha
8 years ago

Being bullet proof doesn’t mean it can withstand a blow from a knife.  Apparently Zach Synder at least researched that.  

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P.B.H.
8 years ago

No, it cannot be fixed.  Zack Snyder’s universe is cancerous in its DNA.  You can’t fix that with a change of tone, different screenwriters or directors.  His continuity, his version of the characters and his cast are all irreversibly tainted.  It has to be dealt with like any cancer: cut it out, every cell.  The entire franchise must be cancelled.  Salt the earth.  In a few years, you can try again, starting with employing only people who recognize and understand all the ways the DCEU was cancerous and Frank Miller the ideological source of that cancer.  

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8 years ago

Why was Batman wearing a trench coat over his Batsuit in the desert?

 

I can’t be the the only one seeing a reference to the WWII tales of the Canadian “crucified soldier” and a direct pastache of the Ypres “Canada’s Golgotha” memorial?

 

comment image

 

It struck me as immediately obvious when watching the film, especially knowing that WONDER WOMAN would be tying that war into the connected story (such that the Trenches would be our reference point to any invasion by Apokalips).

Gerry O'Brien
8 years ago

Paging Greg Berlanti … 

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Cybersnark
8 years ago

Honestly, I don’t think anything short of a Crisis (perhaps merging the Berlantiverse’s various Earths as well as Gotham into the Snyderverse) could fix this.

I don’t think going Grimdark is the best option for DC, either –my best memories of the Post-Crisis era were how fun it was. As grim’n’gritty as DC could get in the 90s, it was never afraid to be a little silly and self-aware. If anything, the juxtaposition of tones is what hooked me: the DCU is a place where noir crime drama, classical superheroics, urban fantasy, high fantasy, space opera, cyberpunk, horror, and kid-friendly comedy all coexist with their respective protagonists hanging out together on weekends.

If DC really wanted to compete with the MCU (if they even wanted to), what they could’ve done is try to succeed in the few areas where the MCU has failed: keeping the universe consistent (the rift between the MCU movies, Agents of SHIELD, and the Netflix universe should by now be common knowledge) while still allowing writers/directors the freedom to work without interference.

Revive the old “Super-Summit” model (where the editorial staffs of the four different Superman comics would get together every year for a huge story meeting and —together— plan out a year’s worth of material), and apply that to a shared cinematic universe: get the movie, television, video game, and comic Creatives all together (with minimal oversight from the marketing focus groups and bureaucrats who usually end up calling the shots) and plan everything out, even if only in the vaguest terms, until everyone is mostly satisfied. Then send everyone off to work on their particular corners, relying on periodic updates (we have the technology to do that now) to keep everyone in the loop.

BMcGovern
Admin
8 years ago

Hi, all–just a friendly reminder to please keep the discussion civil; by all means, disagree with the post and opinions expressed, but please avoid making arguments personal in tone. You can find the full Moderation Policy here.

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8 years ago

Alex, As one comic-reading A. Brown to another, I think your analysis of the movies so far is spot-on.  From what I have seen of the Wonder Woman movie in the trailers, however, I think this may end up being the first of the new generation DC movies that I like.  And I have hopes that the success of that movie may begat a change in directions.  Of course, I have heard horror stories about how things operate behind the scenes at Warner Brothers, so maybe I am being overly optimistic that they can change their course.

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8 years ago

Much of this post also applies to NuTrek.

There is nothing wrong with calling out crap for what it is.

And the DCEU is still infected with Jon Peters virus. BvS had too much of his Superman.

The MCU is fun and profitable. Part of the reason is that someone is in charge. Directors want to be special snowflakes, but when they make a movie in a franchise, they cannot be allowed to be inconsistent with the rest of the movies.

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Gunner26
8 years ago

All the questions that you ask, will be answered in the next set of DECU movies. The BvS movie is not a movie about batman or superman, it’s the first justice league movie! And they have to set the stage for all of the justice league heroes and villains.

This will help you understand – https://youtu.be/tVN5bl5Y7L4

The truth is DC comics has such rich characters and stories that no amount of Zach Snyder and Ben Affleck can keep it subdued for a long time, let alone you Marvel sympathisers and DC haters.

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IlyaP
8 years ago

One option that perhaps merits exploring is this:

Start over.

Recast everyone.

Hire new directors.

Sit down, and plan things out: what stories do we want to tell? How open-ended do we want to be? What is the story arc we want to tell? What is our end-game? Where do we go from there? How do we want to tell this story? 

Thus far, none of the stories told have been very engaging. While they certainly have captured a certain, Frank Miller-like interpretation of the characters (given that BvS:DoJ was a film interpretation of The Dark Knight Returns, that it was grim and dark is acceptable, as it reflected the source material), MoS lacked the exuberant humanity intrinsic to Superman, and Suicide Squad remains a confusing and inconsistent vision. 

I personally preferred the squad depicted in the Arrowverse to this incarnation, as characters were given room to breathe, establish their personalities, and how they interacted with Diggle/Spartan and Ollie/The Arrow. And on a lower budget too. Remarkable. 

But in all honesty, perhaps a conversation that ought to be had is: should we just let this experiment fade away, and return in a few years with a new (and better-planned) series of films? 

At the very least, initiate a Zero Hour event, or a Flashpoint, or Convergence, to wipe the slate clean and begin anew. 

It merits exploration, methinks. 

 

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Glass
8 years ago

I love Man of Steel and Batman V Superman. I really think they are great films.

Suicide Squad doesn’t have any sort of salvation.

John C. Bunnell
8 years ago

It occurs to me that one of DC/Warner’s unstated but very real problems in developing any “DCEU” in the wake of the Marvel/Disney MCU franchise is that new incarnations of the DC characters have to compete against their predecessors in a way that the Marvel versions haven’t had to deal with.

Put simply, Marvel’s greatest advantage in the cineplex is that, prior to Iron Man, virtually no screen adaptation of a Marvel-based comic or character (whether for film or TV) had been successful enough to leave a lasting mark on popular cultural memory.  With the exception of the Ferrigno/Bixby Incredible Hulk series, pretty much every attempt at a live-action Marvel TV project tanked either commercially, with fans, or both — and while the Hulk series did fairly well, it went to a lot of trouble to avoid looking like a comic-book series.  None of the numerous and mostly short-lived pre-MCU animated series ever achieved enough traction with fans to be regarded as a definitive interpretation of its characters.  And even the Tobey Maguire Spider-Man series, despite making enough money to run to three films, was at best a mixed success both critically and with the Marvel fan base.

The DC legacy is very different: for three straight generations (and in three different media categories) DC has given viewers iconic, immensely successful, culturally pervasive portrayals of its keystone characters.  The Adam West Batman series, despite all the limitations and missteps Keith DeCandido has been ably pointing out in the current rewatch, imprinted Batman and Robin firmly and permanently into public consciousness.   A decade later, Christopher Reeve’s Superman brought its title character to cinematic life in spectacular fashion, essentially inventing the modern superhero movie in the process and simultaneously showing audiences that such movies could have depth as well as spectacle.  And in the 1990s, the “Timmverse” animated DC canon, beginning with Batman:TAS and following with companion series starring Superman, the Justice League, and a brand new Bat in Batman Beyond,  did precisely what none of their Marvel counterpart series managed to do: established a cohesive, dynamic, and critically acclaimed body of mythology that was sufficiently well-received that elements of that mythology have now been reverse-integrated into the supposed “parent” canon.  Even today, this group of shows is regarded by many fans as a more definitive treatment of the DC core characters than any of the big-screen Bat-incarnations. 

For anybody involved in creating a new “DCEU”, this is a capital-P Problem, because the powers that be will inevitably insist that in order to succeed, you have to do something New!, Exciting!, and Different! with the characters.  You can’t do comedy, because it won’t hold up next to popular memories of the Adam West series.  You can’t do straight-up action/adventure, because the Timmverse shows have been there and done that in encyclopedic style.  And you especially can’t do light romantic drama, because between the Reeve/Margot Kidder chemistry and four seasons’ worth of Lois & Clark, that field’s been plowed often enough to be overly familiar as well.

For quite some time, the creators of feature-length DC films — both live-action and animated — have been addressing this problem by specifically adapting particular story arcs from the print comics, most notably the Dark Knight cycle.  This is not, however, especially viable for a new big-budget feature cycle.  For one thing, Marvel’s doing that already, and DC would look like a copycat; for another, between the animated features and the Greg Berlanti TV properties, most of the easily filmable storylines have already been mined.

I’d like to see more — and better — DC-universe feature films.  But I begin to think that the way to approach them is not to attempt to create a mirror-image of the MCU model, in which everything is tightly integrated and choreographed into a consistent whole.  The strength of the DC multiverse, for me, has always been its breadth and diversity — its ability to find room for both dark fare and light, intricate intrigue and straightforward action, depending on what part of the landscape you’re viewing at the moment.  I don’t and won’t mind if a Wonder Woman film, a Teen Titans movie, and a Phantom Stranger drama (hey, one can hope!) each take their own tone and aren’t wholly consistent with one another.  I just want them all to be well written, well acted, and well filmed.

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8 years ago

@31 Lynda Carter’s Wonder Woman and the Superfriends version of Aquaman were equally iconic. I know that a lot of the grim and angsty DC fans want to get away from the latter, but he was a joy to many of the fans and the jokes from Big Bang Theory and Family Guy have always had a rub of affectionate parody to them which Aquafans love. The proposed DCEU version of Wonder Woman (while certainly better than Wonder Woman: Pants to be Darkened) lacks the humanity and compassion of Carter’s and the new Aquaman would be more fit for the Bat Family Rogue’s Gallery than he would for a hero’s role.

DC seems to think it must have its heroes be iconic in some way instead of just being characters. In their quest to bring an iconic new look they’ve forgotten how they become iconic (and loved) in the first place. They have fallen into the trap of different for different’s sake.

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David S
8 years ago

 I never expect a fully accurate on screen representation of the comic book character anymore. Instead, I remember that both Marvel and DC are multiverses, and the cinematic universes are just one of those many realities. It allows me to accept a Superman who demolishes Metropolis, instead of luring the villain to the Fortress of Solitude, or a Batman that brands criminals. 

That being said, I still expect movies to be coherent. The article hits the nail on the head when it comes to the genre shifts BvS makes, it didn’t feel like a single movie, but many movies slapped together, edited for television, so it would fit the time slot and losing key scenes that explained character motivations.

Im not alone when I say that it seems like DC is trying to “catch up” to Marvel on the big screen. And that. Is. A. Huge. Mistake!

Theres no need to play catch up. Marvel fans will go see DC movies, DC fans will go see Marvel movies and non comic fans will go see great movies. Period.

Great movies will always do well. If DC just made great movies, there wouldn’t be this issue. Marvel misses the mark sometimes ( Iron Man 3, Thor 2, Age of Ultron ) too, but DC hasnt to hit the target since The Dark Knight.

 

 

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David S
8 years ago

@34

Why is it, if someone has a problem with a film, they must be a hater of the source material? I just don’t understand the us vs them thing. 

Im a comic book fan. Marvel, DC, Image, Dark Horse…it doesn’t matter. Great stories and great art matter more than the name of a publisher. And though I am partial to Marvel, Red Son and Kingdom Come are two of the greatest comic book stories ever told and DC deserves the credit for publishing them.

But, movies are different. They need to be coherent from start to finish, character arcs and motivations clear and the genre of the movie sets the tone. BvS, like the article stated, played at mixing genres and it just didn’t work. The first act of Suicide Squad is cringeworthy, I dig the second act, but the third act was predictable and boring. I felt the same way about Deadpools third act, BTW.

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IlyaP
8 years ago

Remember also that Zack Snyder used the word “mythology” frequently in interviews, with regards to how he perceived the characters in the DC universe. 

This explains to an extent how and why he filmed and presented the characters as we’ve seen them in the DC movies thus far. They are presented as larger than life characters, and are framed (in terms of the cinematography) in just such a way as well. 

Further to this point, as one film editor has pointed out, Snyder has a tendency towards filming moments, rather than scenes. https://filmschoolrejects.com/watch-scenes-v-moments-in-batman-v-superman-d3b72f0ce6b5#.q4zpb1jqq

To add some more weight and depth to this discussion…

 

Yonni
8 years ago

I’d be happy with a live action version of the justice league cartoons. It has light and funny moments, dark and funny moments, sad moments… Warner Bros could learn a lot from watching JLA and JLU. 

I would also love to see a Superman film in the fashion of American Alien, a Wonder Woman film that emphasizes her compassion (lasso, not sword people), and a Batman film that focuses on the Batfam and all it has to offer. Those would be great movies. 

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luy
7 years ago

Yes. Wonder Woman can.