Fans have been waiting for this Deadpool film for a long time. What began as just a twinkle in Ryan Reynolds’ eye (that got shelved eternally after the embarrassment that was X-Men Origins: Wolverine) has finally come to pass, and it gets a big thumbs up for making room in the current movie landscape for superheroes to be truly funny.
It also gets a big thumbs down for making the same mistakes that so many of these properties always make when it comes to estimating its audience.
In order to fully explain my cheers and quibbles, I have to go into some detail, so there will be spoilers in this review. (Do you really care that much about spoilers for a Deadpool movie? I doubt he does. He just wants you to smuggle some chimichangas into the theater so he can smell them through the screen.)
Starting with the good, Deadpool manages to tick all the comedic boxes that it needs to. The meta-humor is perfectly orchestrated in this film, going out of its way to inform us that Deadpool is aware of his tropes and cinematic surroundings, which is half of what makes the character enjoyable. The opening credits of this movie don’t even showcase anyone’s name, just a list of stereotypes and one-offs about what you can expect in a superhero film (“A British Villain,” “The Writers aka The Real Heroes Here”). It also parodies most Marvel closing credits sequences, with closeups on equipment, and costumes, and such. Hugh Jackman jokes abound. The asides that tie into the X-Men film series at large make up some of the best humor in the movie.
After the many wrong turns Ryan Reynolds has made in his career, Deadpool feels like his first true homecoming. He flirted with romcom leads and that brief, horrible stint as Green Lantern, and now he’s figured out where he belongs. Good for him. He’s excellent in the part, equal parts heart and self-protective sarcasm, and the cadence he uses as the character (particularly when he’s masked) is exactly right. As in “When I read the comics that’s the voice I’ve always heard in my head. How did he do that?” kind of right. The movie sets him firmly in the role of anti-hero, removing some of the more unsavory aspects of the character—which make sense, since those aspects haven’t really been in play for the more recent comic runs. Also, the CGI team deserves all the credit in the world for giving Deadpool’s mask a range of facial expression we normally only see on the page. It allows him to be funnier and adds another sheen of unreality, setting it apart from the other eight (there’s been eight!?) X-films even when it’s meant to play alongside their narrative.
The film’s extreme self-awareness helps it out when some of the less tasteful comedy comes into play. When Deadpool (at that point just Wade Wilson, mercenary) meets his soon-to-be girlfriend Vanessa Carlysle (played by the ever-sparkly-even-when-she’s-cursing-a-blue-streak Morena Baccarin), he pulls the weird Pick-Up Artist “how were you hurt as a child because there’s no way such a gorgeous woman would show up here otherwise” query. When Baccarin gives the rundown of her background, Wilson turns it into a competition over who had it worse growing up, turning a typically bad joke on its head—because ruined childhoods are not the sole purview of beautiful women in gross bars. This also happens during Deadpool’s run-ins with Colossus and Negasonic Teenage Warhead; a role that might have simply harped on the “annoying teenage girl” stereotype is elevated by Brianna Hildebrand’s gothy aesthetic, and her general unwillingness to play along with any of Deadpool’s antics. (“You’re putting me in the box,” she says at one point when he tries to distill her reactions down to the two oft-used options of meanness or sarcasm.)
Because Deadpool is an origin story told primarily through flashback, there is very little, narrative-wise, to differentiate it from any other superhero story. The villains are unfortunately paper-thin and distressingly boring. (I’d expect it for Ed Skrein’s Ajax, but when you’ve got Gina Carano playing Angel Dust, for the love of every deity on earth, do something worthwhile with her. A couple good fight scenes are not enough.) Leslie Uggams gives a perfect—but tragically underused—turn as Blind Al, with a relationship to Wade that is far healthier than the one comics fans have seen on the page… and that’s saying something, because it’s not like they’re a pile of puppy cuddles here, either.
My problems with this film boil down to the same problem we have in the majority of superhero film-making. It seems that despite audience statistics, despite years of showing up, despite how often it’s repeated at conventions and in interviews and all over the internet, Hollywood (and most major corporations by and large) STILL DON’T UNDERSTAND THAT WOMEN LIKE THESE STORIES. Look, I’m a fan of Deadpool. I read the comics. I love the crossovers. I’m hooked on metafiction and meta-humor, which is the very thing Deadpool excels at. It’s worth noting that Harley Quinn—who has many of the same characteristics to recommend her—is insanely popular as well at this point in time. And she’s not popular with women simply because she’s female. It’s because women like all of this stuff, too.
So when this film—which is entirely irreverent as you’d expect, often to the point of distastefulness—makes all the same lame, tired jokes that are usually made at the expense of women, I get sad. When women are used in all the same ways that they’re normally used in these narratives, I get more sad. Deadpool frownyface sad:
When the film freeze-frames on Deadpool skewering a guy with two katanas and the voiceover has Wade cheerfully begin with, “I know what you’re thinking: ‘My boyfriend told me this was a superhero movie, but then why is this guy—’” I laugh because the meta part of the joke is funny… but I’m also rolling my eyes because yet again, the assumption is that every woman in the theater is there because some guy dragged her in. Did they think we wouldn’t come because of all the dick jokes in their advertising campaign? Because I have no problem with dick jokes. Judging by the amount of female laughter at the three-dozen-or-so penis-related-euphemisms in the film itself, I think it’s safe to say that very few ladies are going to be put off by a movie featuring a plethora of dick jokes. Literally all they had to do to make that line feel like less of a slap would be to change “boyfriend” to “girlfriend.” That’s it. Especially since, it’s not like every guy who walks into a theater to see this movie knows a thing about Deadpool either.
When Vanessa makes a Yoda joke as she curls up in bed with her boyfriend, and Wade’s reply is, “Star Wars joke… it’s like I made you in a lab!” I laugh because anyone who finds themselves in a good relationship frequently marvels at how they managed to locate another human being so well-suited to them. But I’m also cringing because that joke smacks far too much of geeky guys who still believe that the only way to find an attractive woman with similar interests is to build a damn android, à la Weird Science. (And I’m also cringing because Vanessa’s reply to Wade after that is scold him by saying “Empire!” and honestly who the hell makes that distinction, it’s all Star Wars. Come on, do your flipping homework at least.)
When the film actually makes a point of showing male nudity, I’m shocked and impressed. Then the film shows female nudity and I’m glowering at the screen. Because the male nudity comes in the context of action and also suffering—Wade Wilson is making a horrible bid for freedom and his nakedness is not the focal point of the scene, more a byproduct. And then we get the female nudity and it’s exactly where you’d expect it to be: a f*cking strip club. A reminder: you don’t just get points for equal opportunity, you have to think about the message you’re sending. The message here wound up being “sure, we’re willing to show a naked guy, but only when he’s doing hero things. If a woman is naked, it’s because she’s an object.”
So while I truly enjoyed a good portion of Deadpool, I’m holding out hope that it can be better. That the next time (because it seems like there will be a next time), they remember who goes to see these movies and give some extra thought to what they’re saying. You can be funny without alienating people, no matter what anyone says. And Deadpool is a superb testing ground for a new generation of superpowered comedy.
Emmet Asher-Perrin would really just settle for a Hawkeye vs Deadpool movie. Exactly as the comic is, You can bug her on Twitter and Tumblr, and read more of her work here and elsewhere.
“And I’m also cringing because Vanessa’s reply to Wade after that is scold him by saying “Empire!” and honestly who the hell makes that distinction, it’s all Star Wars. Come on, do your flipping homework at least.”
This may be a generational thing? I saw Star Wars on first release and under that name, and the original trilogy has always been Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi to me. For instance, in Felicia Day’s book she talks about the making of Star Wars a bunch, and it just set my teeth on edge because mostly she is talking about Return of the Jedi. (To be fair to me, she is mixing anecdotes about funding Episode 4 with the making of Episode 6, which comes off kind of odd.) Distinguishing between Star Wars and Empire is something I’ve been doing ever since 1980.
Mind you, the character in the movie (I haven’t seen it) may be too young for this explanation to apply.
The only problem with that logic is that the title isn’t “The Empire Strikes Back” it’s “Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back.”
I also saw Star Wars on first release, though I was too young to really remember it that well. Empire is the first I really remember seeing in the theater well. But for me, Star Wars refers to all of them. I only use the full title when needing to refer specifically to that one movie. So I might say “I love Star Wars” meaning the franchise as a whole or “Empire is my favorite” when picking an individual movie.
@1. It’s all Star Wars. Generally, the world today is far enough removed from the story to reference the body of work as a whole. Differentiate if you must, but don’t be anal about it when others don’t. You can apply the context on your own. I only use the monikers ANH, Empire, and Jedi, if I feel I need such specificity. Which is rare.
And I’m of the generation that insists, “It’s not ‘A New Hope,’ dang it! Its name is just Star Wars! No bloody A, B, C, or D!” …Or something like that.
It’s the first chapter in a body of work known as “Star Wars.” When you say ‘Star Wars” you’re not talking about Episode 4, regardless of your insistence to the contrary. Plain and simple.
And the first four comments on this piece are all ignoring the gist while arguing about the nomenclature of Star Wars. /wrists.
Mayhem: BECAUSE NERDS, DAMMIT!
—Keith R.A. DeCandido
you fail to mention that the camera more than makes a point to focus on Wade’s bare ass during a bedroom conversation, and while he’s walking around the room. The camera was positioned in such a way to keep it hidden just so that it can then become the visual focus of the audience when it zooms out. Not to mention other gratuitous shots of his ass and crotch, albeit in uniform. Or perhaps it’s because it’s because it was done for comedic effects, as opposed to making him a sex object (not that you could tell the difference from the excited gasps by the women sitting near me every time he stripped down), and that’s what makes it different? I don’t really know.
This is what I was most afraid of(and what I’m most fearing with Spiderman being written by the same guys who gave us this past year’s wretched Vacation movie).
Yet the Spawn and I are still going to see it Saturday
I’m a little confused at Emily’s general take on feminism, etc in this movie. Deadpool is just about the very very very last place I’d expect to see anything approaching good feminist qualities. Its like petting a snake and then whining about it when it bites you.
@11/Ragnar: But that’s the point, isn’t it? That plenty of women are fans of Deadpool, but the makers of it don’t get that and thus don’t write it in a way that’s inclusive of that audience? Your comment implies that you’re jumping to the same erroneous conclusion as the filmmakers, that the property is not “supposed” to have female fans and that any woman who ventures into the cootie-free zone does so at her own peril. But Emily’s point is that that’s rubbish, that there are as many female fans as male, and they’re entitled to feel frustrated when the industry still buys into the myth that they don’t exist and don’t matter. Try to imagine how you’d feel if something you were a fan of insisted on making you feel excluded. Forget “-isms,” just imagine yourself in an equivalent situation of being made to feel unwelcome someplace where you want to be. And how obnoxious it would be if anyone tried to tell you that you were wrong to be upset about feeling unwelcome because you “should have known better.”
And for what it’s worth, there are people who keep snakes as pets, and who do pet them. Part of the reason they don’t get bitten is because they’re careful and understand the hazards, yes, but part of it is that the snakes are familiar with them, accept their presence, and don’t see them as a threat.
And really, that snake analogy is terrible. A snake just has impulses, not intelligence or judgment. It can’t help striking if provoked. It’s absurd to say that moviemakers can’t help but be sexist. Of course they can help it. Gender attitudes are learned, not instinctive.
I’m going to chime in on the Star Wars discussion since I haven’t seen the movie yet (as most of us out in the real world haven’t had a chance yet). The first three SW movies to me (and my friends and family who I talk SW with) will always be Star Wars, Empire, and Jedi. And yes, I said first three. Just because the prequels are parts I, II & III, doesn’t make them the first three movies. They were made after the original trilogy. Granted, this can get a little confusing when talking to my nephews, I’ll say something like “In the first movie” and my nephew will ask “The Phantom Menace?” and then I have to say “No, Star Wars is the first movie, it was the first one made!” and he’ll say “You mean A New Hope” and I’ll say “No Goddammit! Star Wars!!!” Damn kids these days, now get off my lawn!
I’m not familiar with the Deadpool character. Does the comic usually make these sort of gender specific jokes you find offensive? Because if it’s sticking to the tone of the comic, then I can’t find fault in that. And if not, then it is the filmmakers’ fault.
But are the jokes really that alienating? The examples you cited make it sound like standard, dumb sitcom humor. Are there more mean-spirited, R-rated jokes you can’t repeat here? Seems pretty tame so far.
Ugh. There was no “Episode 4”. That didn’t appear until the re-release, when the Lucasing had begun.
Every nekked woman on screen now has to be there for some deep metaphysical reason. Never to pander to the undersexed male geek crowd that is still overwhelmingly the target audience.
GOT THAT?!
@17
I believe the point was it might be time to start pandering to the undersexed female geek crowd that has rapidly become a large proportion of the actual audience. assumptions != reality.
@18/Mayhem: Exactly. The problem with the “target audience” idea is that the studios are aiming at the wrong target. They’re fighting the last war. The idea that comic books and their adaptations appeal mainly to male audiences is completely out of date. There are as many female comics fans today as male, and content providers ignore that fact at their peril.
I used to call refer to Star Wars as A New Hope long before there was even a Phantom Menace.
As for studios and toy companies being completely behind the times in terms of marketing to the real audience, I agree. They need to realize the existence of female comic book fans. It’s almost as if the people behind these projects don’t attend Comic-Con events, where you find nothing but female audiences.
@20/Eduardo: I assume #15/Church is referring to the 1981 theatrical re-release of Star Wars, at which time the “Episode IV: A New Hope” heading was added to the opening title crawl to retroactively make it consistent with the format used in The Empire Strikes Back.
@21: I thought the same. But then again, I was born in 81. I never got to see the film’s original opening crawl without the episode’s number and title. Not that it matters, really. To me, it was always A New Hope, even though I knew older fans mainly referred to it as Star Wars. As I said, I was well used to the episode title by the time the Special Editions came out.
Plus, I find it easier to identify the films by their respective titles and let Star Wars be the dominant name for the overall saga. Same with the Harry Potter films. I believe everyone refers to the first film as Philosopher/Sorcerer’s Stone rather than HP. And everyone I know definitely refers to the first Indy film as Raiders of the Lost Ark.
I see Emily’s point here, and it’s valid. Filmmakers in the superhero genre have been ignoring their female fans for a long time now, and it’s way past time to see a change. Agreed.
But.
Filmmakers make movies for a broader audience than just the true fans. Yes, among diehard comic book fans there are way more female fans than ever before. But there are a lot of people who go see these movies that aren’t big comic book fans. Most people had never heard of Deadpool until this movie came out, but many will go see the film anyway. My guess is that the filmmakers looked at this part of the audience and saw a lot more men coming to see the movie than women. (I’m probably going to have a hard time convincing my wife that she should see it, even though she’s liked many of the MCU movies.) Rightly or not, they tailored the jokes to the majority of the audience.
My two cents is that it was a mistake in this case. Deadpool, due to the nature of the character, is going to attract a lot more true fans relative to casual fans than another X-Men or Spiderman movie. This would have been a good place to start giving the female fans the credit they deserve.
**And then we get the female nudity and it’s exactly where you’d expect it to be: a f*cking strip club. A reminder: you don’t just get points for equal opportunity, you have to think about the message you’re sending. The message here wound up being “sure, we’re willing to show a naked guy, but only when he’s doing hero things. If a woman is naked, it’s because she’s an object.”**
I can see and even agree with the meta-points here about context of nudity. But I am also tired of sex workers being seen as objects by everyone – including feminists whose writing I normally adore. Entering sex work, often a constrained rational choice in limited circumstances, does not turn a person into an object.
And both current and former sex workers read Tor.com. We are not just a point to make in a discussion. We reside in these spaces too.
Well, certainly they do, because that’s what it was actually called from the beginning. There was never a time when the first book or the first film was called just Harry Potter. So there’s no reason why anyone ever would’ve called it that, not formally or officially, anyway. (I’m sure there were plenty of people who went up to the ticket booth and said “One for Harry Potter, please.” I’m sure that’s true of all eight films.)
Again, that was its actual, original title. It was only in much later home video releases that it was renamed Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark. So in that case, calling it Raiders is equivalent to calling the first SW film Star Wars. In both cases, that was the original title before it was changed. It’s just that in one case a subtitle was added later, and in the other case a supertitle was added later. And in the case of Harry Potter, it always had a single, consistent supertitle-plus-subtitle format (although the subtitle was changed between the UK and the US). So they’re three different cases, not interchangeable at all.
@24/U.Q.: That’s an excellent point. Strippers are performers, as much as singers or tap dancers or stand-up comics or anyone else who might be shown demonstrating a talent before an audience. In real life, they should be treated with respect. Still, that doesn’t mean the makers of movies that depict strippers aren’t treating them in an objectifying way. I think what Emily is saying is that the nude male was an actual character in the story while the nude women were just treated as background decoration, that the strippers weren’t given voices or personalities or narrative roles, so it therefore wasn’t equivalent. I gather Morena Baccarin’s character is a prostitute, so she’s a sex worker who’s personified rather than objectified; but I’m getting the impression that she doesn’t have a nude scene (which, if so, is to my very, very great regret).
As much as I hate to contribute to the derailment of good constructive criticism on an important topic, I am compelled to comment on the Star Wars naming.
I grew up with my parents’ boxed set of the original trilogy. It came with a “making of” video entitled From Star Wars to Jedi. So, at some point, not even the people who came up with the New Hope silliness were using it.
But more on point, thanks for pointing out things to improve. Ignoring everyone else’s ideas is, after all, how we ended up with the prequel trilogy.
Comment deleted. Nevermind.
You raise some good points about some of the assumptions the movie makes about it’s audience. But often, like when you reference specific moments/lines in the movie, I wonder if you were actually awake for all of it.
I think we’re conveniently forgetting a fair amount of nudity if we’re narrowing it down to guys being naked in a fight and girls being naked in a strip club. In addition to showing his backside for comedic effect, we also saw him shirtless and of course there was their year of sex that saw both of them undressed. That’s on top of multiple shots of Deadpool’s spandex covered butt. As for the strip club scene, there was barely any focus on the girls at all apart from the fully clothed prostitute turned cocktail waitress. Unless they were going to change Vanessa’s career from the start, I’m not sure what we would expect from that scene.
Females are disappointingly one-dimensional,
but they are getting some more action —
Spoilers:
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In the climactic fight scene,
a woman (Angel Dust) beats up Colossus, by far the physically strongest X-Men, metal skin and twice her size,
a teenage girl (Negasonic Warhead) is the most powerful human weapon there–practically a bomb, and saves Colossus from being strangled,
the damsel in distress (Vanessa) stabs Francis, the most oppressive, sadistic, psychopathic male figure of entire movie, and saves Deadpool, her OA boyfriend who is hallucinating from the knife sticking out of his head.
To be fair, all of the characters, male and female, are one-dimensional. Deadpool himself carries the movie.
First, you criticize the movie for not recognizing fangirls as a core component, then you criticise them for making Vanessa so much a fan girl that she calls Wade out on his Star Wars geek cred. You had a fair point at first. Then you lost it.
I wonder how much of the nudity imbalance is unequal ratings? Rated R movies can show all the boobs they want but how many dicks does it take to push it to AO or whatever?
@32/noblehunter: That’s not really comparable, though, I think, because breasts aren’t genitalia. A lot of movies will show breasts and buttocks but won’t show either male or female genitals.
But female breasts count as female nudity in a way a male chest doesn’t.
I am a serious Deadpool fangirl, comic books and, yes, I saw the movie today. I feel as though an argument over the girlfriend “my boyfriend said this was a superhero movie” is kind of invalid. It’s not really saying all girls are stupid, and it’s not saying that boys should know everything that is movie. I’ve gone to a lot of hero movies, and it seems like in a great many, there’s always that one lady asking the man next to her random and, to a major comic geek, stupid questions. It’s just a bit of a jab to those ladies and a joke to all those other people in the theater who aren’t like that, not something aimed at women in general. It would kind of ruin the one liner if he said, “my boyfriend/girlfriend said…” It would just be a bit too much.
Let us also remember that we’re talking about Deadpool, a character that is made to be offensive. Heck, I’m from Iowa and very early on in the film it made a jab at our state fair in one of his one-liners. You should leave either scoffing or laughing at yourself. And let’s not forget that early on in the movie Wade is helping a girl get a stalker off her back, and there were some of the very sexual scenes where his girlfriend was being quite dominant. Girls kick butt in this movie, but where do you expect a mercenary to end up? At some point, the stereotypical bad boy is going to run into hookers and strippers. It’s nothing against women, it just makes plot sense. The movie just isn’t made for people that are sensative to offensive content.
@34/noblehunter: Of course there’s a difference between how male and female chests are perceived and treated — at least in our culture — but that doesn’t mean it therefore makes sense to use male genitals as an analog for female mammaries. It means there is no adequate male analog for them. They’re in a class by themselves.
There are actually several states in the US, including New York, where it’s technically perfectly legal for women to go topless in public. But I don’t think there are any states where it’s legal for men to expose their genitals in public. And it used to be that you could show bare breasts in a PG-rated movie, at least in non-sexual contexts, but frontal male nudity would be a guaranteed R or X rating. So there is a pretty major difference in magnitude between the two.
Well thought out take, Emily. However, like everyone on the internet I have to argue. Now before I get accused for being the typical nerdy sexist fanboy who questions someone for liking something like the Deadpool comics simply because they’re a girl. That is not why I’m about to argue this. You are neither wrong or right as you simply stated an opinion, but I ask that your review your take on this movie. Going to a Deadpool movie as a Deadpool comic fan and hoping that there won’t be any pervasive jokes that are at the expense of women is, well, weird. That is one of the largest parts of what makes Deadpool’s character. The other issue was I saw it as 50/50. First of all, he helps out a young girl by threatening to kill her stalker. Next up, when Deadpool meets Vanessa for the first time they have a run in with the crude and sexist Buck who gets his nuts twisted by Vanessa. Then you have the pegging joke on Deadpool for International Women’s Day. Not to mention the countless moments men get attacked with the good ole’ nut punch throughout the film. Like Colossus’ paying respect to Angel Dust and telling her to fix her shirt while blocking the view of the audience. How does he get repaid? The trope of the good ole’ nut punch. This movie attacks men as it does women. I know it isn’t the equality we want in our world, but that’s why the intelligent (including you, as I don’t want it to imply I’m calling you dumb.) suspend belief when watching a movie.
How can you be a fan of the comics and be disappointed when Deadpool makes sex jokes in a film? How is he different in the comics? The way I remember him was as a sarcastic, quick-witted, always looking for that double entendre, pervert.
At least we can both laugh at the Hugh Jackman face reveal to Venessa near the end.
@36 The difference in magnitude is the point. The vocabulary of visual objectification is weighted towards women, so a film has to work harder to objectify men. And they can’t take a shortcut by just showing the naughty bits. And even if they try there’s a greater risk of going too far and need to re-cut the movie to get the desired rating.
Ontario allows female toplessness, too, and doesn’t San Francisco allow public nudity?
Emily, I think you’re right in that there are a lot of people in the media franchise that assume we as woman aren’t interested in dirty jokes, video games, comics, etc. And they would be wrong. But I also think it is people like you, who get all bent out of shape over the simplest things, that hurts our reputation as women worse.
I mean, are you seriously using “I know what you’re thinking: ‘My boyfriend told me this was a superhero movie, but then why is this guy—’” as an example for your article? I think you’re being a bit too picky in your criticism. If you’re going to pick at things about this, or any other super hero movie, use better material.
This one just makes you sound like you take offense to anything that even remotely implies that a girl may not be interested in the same things a guy is. Not everything has to be taken seriously, and certainly not this movie. And the more you blow up over the smallest things the more YOU’RE not going to be taken seriously.
So build a better argument. Because all the things you’ve complained about on here are slim pickings at best, and hypocritical at worst. There are just as many guy stereotypes in this movie as there are woman. You just choose to be ignorant of them.
I’m saying this as a fellow girl gamer, comic enthusiast, and person who hopes that the views of women’s roles in society will change. This isn’t the way to do it. Complaining over the dumbest things, and taking every little point seriously. You make matters worse when you can’t laugh at and ignore the paltry, meaningless stuff. Stop nitpicking, and focus on the bigger picture here. Or at least choose some better material to backup your points.
Oddly enough, I think a lot of the humour went over the reviewer’s head, or she doesn’t understand some of them. For example, the “kebab” joke does not imply women would not go see the film. It practically calls out whatever percentage of women in the audience who WERE cajoled by their mate to go see it. Some jokes address a lower percentage of audience members, and that was one of them. Obviously, the writers know Deadpool has female fans, I mean I am sure they go on the internet. They are just poking fun at the girls who were not expecting so much violence, and I know of a few who are married to some friends of mine who had that EXACT reaction the joke addresses.
@41, Or, just maybe, we like violence just fine, and we get comedy just fine, we are just sick of being the butt of somebody else’s jokes.
I like this blog. The writers involved with maintaining it are talented and I enjoy the content immensely. However, I feel there’s been a lot of social commentary being ham fisted into some of the recent posts. I don’t mind it in moderation or if the subject in question directly pertains to it. But it wasn’t warranted for a review about this particular movie.
“The message here wound up being “sure, we’re willing to show a naked guy, but only when he’s doing hero things…”
Because going to the toilet is so heroic.
I think all of your points are good, except for one.
“And I’m also cringing because Vanessa’s reply to Wade after that is to scold him by saying “Empire!” and honestly who the hell makes that distinction, it’s all Star Wars. Come on, do your flipping homework at least.”
Two very important counterpoints.
1: I’ve never read any of the comics, but based on what i saw in the movie their relationship is all about one-upmanship. (Ironically, is there a gender neutral term for that?) Each of them is constantly trying to outdo the other, sometimes with insults thrown in. (This isn’t something that i’d normally consider healthy, but it seems to be mutual and they both seem to enjoy it, so whatever floats their boat.) So it makes sense that if she makes a reference and he indicates he got the reference, she would be tempted to imply he was wrong, thus proving her superiority in the contest of the moment.
2: Saying that Yoda is in “Empire”, not “Star Wars” is definitely being very pedantic. So pedantic that in real life no one would argue the point. …unless they were a geek trying to win an argument. There is no point so pedantic that a desperate enough geek wouldn’t try to take shelter in it to prove their point. As proof, i present to you this entire fucking thread of dozens of people arguing about what the name “Star Wars” does or does not mean.
@43, It’s only “unrelated social commentary” if you feel like the lived experiences of people who aren’t you, don’t matter. As a person who has navigate a society that repeatedly tells me I am not welcome to participate, reviews such as this one, allow me to prepare to love something that doesn’t want my love.
@43, @46, Given how many perspectives this movie implicates, I think multiple reviews are a better idea than trying to fit everything into one. A feminist perspective is no more or less unwarranted than one focusing on the cinematography or fidelity to the source material.
There’s a lot of vitriol in the comment section that I think is undeserved because the author has a really good point: Deadpool missed an opportunity to address the fact that a lot of SFF/comics/nerd stuff ignores their female fans. It’s especially irritating because Ryan Reynolds (who it sounds like had a ton of influence over the script), goes around saying that women need to be represented better in film. I’m not saying that the movie had to be completely perfect. But I really appreciate this review for pointing out these elements, which aren’t in any other of the reviews I’ve seen. Bottom line: it’s difficult to be a woman who likes SFF/comics, and it’s worthwhile to call out those who make it harder. Deadpool perpetuated stereotypes that do that. I don’t think that’s being overly sensitive, since these sorts of critiques are so widespread and so irritating to deal with. You wouldn’t see a joke about how any minorities in the theater must have been dragged there by white men, since only white men like comics. And yeah, I think it’s completely offbase to be mad that the reviewer had a reaction to the feminism or lack thereof, in the movie. It’s not like she went into the film searching for a feminist critique: she just depicted her reactions to the movie, and I think it’s fair to include that, as a woman, some of the jokes fell a little flat.
Ughh, back when GotG was released, there was a Tor post (I can’t remember by whom) that had the same tone – “I loved it buuuutttt, let’s list all the ways it failed…”
I’d like to paraphrase/expand one of the comments on the FB link to that story that I remember seeing – “I’m a far left, open minded, sensitive, progressive male, and I’m tired of feeling like I’m being scolded by the internet for simply liking something.”
Do people really go to the movies looking for issues? Almost everyone I know who’s seen it (female or male) had the response – “I loved it.” Full stop. That was it.
This will probably get deleted, but I’ll put a trigger warning in because I don’t know how else to say it:
TRIGGER WARNING
The male star of the film gets pegged with a strap-on from his girlfriend while she says ‘Happy Women’s Rights Day.’ I am not making this up. It actually happened. I’d have some folks who commented above me verify this but very few seemed to actually watch the movie. Does it mean equality? Nope. But I’m trying to figure out why when discussing nudity, gender roles and women in comic book movies how that detail was left out of this ‘review.’
/END TRIGGER WARNING
All of that said, I think it’s time we all had a grown up conversation about comic books. The creators, editors, writers, hell the entire industry is full of people who can’t seem to be bothered with conducting themselves as actual functioning adults for more than 30 consecutive seconds. One prominent comic book person is well known for BITING people when he gets drunk. He still has a job. He hires people. He’s a gate keeper.
Sadly, this is pretty much how it has always been. It is an industry full of bad people acting in bad faith for all the wrong reasons. This is why over the past five years I’ve just stopped buying comics from the Big 2. I’ve learned that what I liked was essentially the intellectual property, not the stories or the rest of it. I decided that I’m not going to give this industry any more money than I already have.
Nothing in this review is wrong. It’s an opinion piece and I understand why she’s mad at it. Hell some things in it made me mad too. I guess all I’m saying is that at some point you have to ask yourself some questions. ‘If the things I say I love are done by crappy people who make a crappy product and the situation hasn’t gotten any better over the past 50 years then what do I really love about it? Is it worth buying Deadpool if every time I pick it up I feel like crap for being me? Is it worth lining the pockets of people who are actively exploiting the things I hate?’
I know my thoughts on it. I can pay for a Marvel movie only after I apologize to the ghost of Jack Kirby. Beyond that, I’m out. Read Lumberjanes. Or Prophet. Or literally anything else that isn’t built to extract money from middle aged fanboys like me.
@50/jadedlemon: If most reviews are uncritical of the film, that makes it all the better that someone has a dissenting view to voice. Dissent and diversity of opinion are good things. It is wrong to shame someone for not marching in lockstep with the crowd. And even good things deserve to have their flaws pointed out. You don’t get good by resting on your laurels and assuming you’re perfect, you get good by being aware of your imperfections and striving to do better all the time. If you achieve a success and then decide that you no longer need to listen to criticism, then you’re forgetting the very thing that enabled you to achieve success in the first place. The only way to stay good is to keep striving to do better.
And speaking as someone who tries to be “a far left, open minded, sensitive, progressive male” myself, I don’t feel scolded at all, because I recognize that it’s not about me. That’s part of being open-minded and sensitive — not taking it personally when people different from you have concerns that are meaningful to them. Emily isn’t scolding men in general, she’s scolding the makers of this particular film for failing to challenge certain stereotypes that make women feel excluded. That’s a conversation about how she feels, and we have no business trying to co-opt that and make it about our wounded feelings. That’s just more entitled, self-absorbed claptrap.
Why must we appease everyone? Everyone everywhere! Spider-man was a total and utter failure. I read his comic books and collected cards for years and finally they make a movie..not one but 5 and they all failed. Deadpool is exactly as I saw him to be and it was brilliant. Make movies like this as close as you can to their comic book counterparts not how we think they should be or want them to be. I like this article much better than the one I am currently reading: http://www.playboy.com/articles/deadpool-shattered-box-office-expectations?utm_source=sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_term=4&utm_content=em_button&utm_campaign=Email_2.18.16
Short and sweet.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over but excepting different results. Ryan Renolds as green lantern to… Ryan Renolds as dead pool. Insanity. Stick with the chick flicks fella.
Some people do not need to play super heros villians. Hugh jackman, killer wolverine. Val kilmer as batman, horrible. And, even before i see it… Ben afleck as batman? Id rather it been val kilmer. Christian bale set the new bar for batman and nothing will corpare, sorry.
Sorry. Typo…
Expecting different results.
I’m a girl. I didn’t feel marginalized. I didn’t feel downtrodden or objectified. I actually have bigger issues with The Force Awakens and it’s “feminist” plot contrivances than I did with Deadpool.
I haven’t seen the movie, so this is a genuine question: How much of what we’re talking about here is the film and how much of it is the character in the film?
In the comics Wade is kind of a jerk who does tend to stereotype and objectify women. That’s not humour at the expense of the women, it’s making fun of what a putz Wade can be.
Is that what’s being captured in the movie, or is it more than that?
If I read into the article correctly, the whole film is actually Wade telling his backstory? If so, that also adds questions about unreliable narrator and to what extent the narrative is being twisted by his perspective. (In which case the entire movie would be one big meta-joke about Wade himself which… would be a perfect fit, actually.)
Again, I havent seen it yet and would be interested to know to what extent that is the case.
@57, The particular line in question happens when the story is in modern times, not the flashbacks.
To me, at the end of the day, this disappointed me, because everything else in the movie was so good. It pokes fun at a lot of traumatic and problematic things, and I never once felt laughed AT, I understood this movie was laughing with me over my experiences.
Except for that one line. That line made me the butt of the joke.
80% of superhero comics are read by men. 75% of superhero movie audiences are comprised of men or, if in a mixed-gender couple, the movie was picked by the man. (62% of the total superhero movie audience is male.) The latter statistic is particularly telling, since women comprise 52% of movie ticket sales.
When you do a survey of cosplayers, you see that the majority of women are portraying non-superhero characters.
So if you’re a woman reading superhero comics or seeing superhero films, you are in a minority. Sometimes stereotypes are true.
Note: this is not for all comics, just superhero ones, which is what this article is about.
@60
Citation needed
@56: “‘Feminist’ plot contrivances” of TFA? Could you please elaborate on that?
trike: Seriously? If you expect us to believe that you didn’t pull those statistics out of your ass, you’re going to need to cite where those percentages come from. Because I don’t buy it for a second.
—Keith R.A. DeCandido
Aeryl @@@@@ 59:
Honest question here. Is being the butt of the joke really such a bad thing? I mean, I make myself the butt of my own jokes all the time. Just this week at work alone I made jokes about myself having a small dick and being bad in bed. Said jokes were at my own expense and it made people laugh which is what I was going for. I also don’t get mad when other people make jokes at my expense, if the joke is funny I’ll even laugh. But then again I’ve always had pretty thick skin and don’t let what others say or think about me bother me.
#45 – yeah, what you said. I loved how much that scene said about their relationship. It looked a little like my marriage. :)
@64 I mean, I make myself the butt of my own jokes all the time.
That’s yourself. You know where your line is. Other people making you the butt of their jokes all the time though is pretty horrible thing to experience.
But then again I’ve always had pretty thick skin and don’t let what others say or think about me bother me.
Well, I assume because of your reference to your penis, that you are cis male. It’s easy to have a what you consider to be “pretty thick skin” when the rest of the world is assuring you that you are the default, that you can identify with the culture around you, because people who look like you are EVERYWHERE.
I’m sure all the white people who had an absolute meltdown over Beyonce at the Super Bowl would tell you they have “pretty thick skin” too, yet the instant that their viewpoint wasn’t centered, they revealed that to be a lie.
I have pretty thick skin as well. My capacity for noticing the ways in which I am marginalized has very little effect on my personal outlook, I rarely let those things bother me. That doesn’t mean I expect everyone to feel the same way I do.
So my original comment was deleted, not entirely sure why didn’t insult anyone or use any type of disparaging remark (unlike other comments still in existence in this thread).
Here is a fact about humor. Most humor is at the cost of someone else. Look at all the stink over the somewhat recent DirecTV commercials, with overly skinny, hirsute, meat head etc… all these things mocked a stereotype or a class of person to sell a product. Do you think any of the people that fit those categories thought the commercials were funny (some probably did, but all)? Did you laugh (at least smile) anyway?
I appreciate that some people would take offense to this stereotype, but what can anyone do? If it bothers you go about your life being the exception to the stereotype be the bigger person, eventually as you remain you the stereotype will fall away for the fallacy it is.
At the end of the day, to laugh at some erroneous stereotypes and rail against others, is hypocrisy.
Emily, I always enjoy your articles.
However,
Here is what I got from you:
Jokes that pander to men are bad.
Only the jokes that pander to women or are gender neutral are good.
BTW, the “My boyfriend told me this was a superhero movie, but then why is this guy—” joke was not for the women in the audience. That joke was for the guys. In fact, they all were, cuz this was a guy movie that women can enjoy.
Love your articles, keep ’em coming.
Thanks.
@68 Aeryl
The joke is targeting women who knew so little about Deapool their boyfriends only felt safe describing it as “a superhero movie”. That clearly isn’t you, (or me, or my mother, or my sister, or…) but it is going to be a percentage of the audience, and that joke was for the guys that had to explain things that way.
The rest of your post goes on to write the original poster off as “a CIS male”, thus immediately to be silenced and, to my delight, expanding out to just crap on white people in general, painting them with an extremely wide, extremely bigoted brush.
You should reread your post, read the moderation policy, and ask yourself how close to spirit, if not the letter of the policy, your comment comes to breaking. I would hazard that, if this was your first post instead of one by a popular poster. It never would have seen the light of day. Do you really want to use the privilege you’ve generated to promote hate?
If you want to stand by your comments, fine. The comment is sexist, racist, and directly attacks the person you were replying to, who deserved none of your rancor. I just needed to say that, because I think it’s important to stick up for individuals being bullied and challenge damaging global stereotypes.
Cheers
I am waaay late to this, so I’ll keep my comments brief. There’s only one thing I want to touch on that Christopher poke free of my brain:
If plenty of women are already fans of Deadpool, and Deadpool on the screen is just a Comic Code free version of what Posehn/Duggan/Koblish write in the comics, why should they change it?
I’m sure the creators are overwhelming happy to hear about female fans. They’re not going to say, “we need to keep pushing this out until we’ve alienated every female on the planet.” But, they’re also not going to say, “we need to compromise our vision of the comic to try and draw in as wide an audience as possible.”
Deadpool is Deadpool, just like Lobo is Lobo. I’m so happy Deadpool had such a strong showing at the box office made just the way it was, because it gives hope that Lobo will be written and delivered like fans of that franchise would expect as well.
Do I look forward to more scifi/fantasy/hero stories that successfully integrate strong characters from a broad cross-section of society? Heck yes!
Is Deadpool or Lobo likely going to deliver that? Heck no.
Is Deadpool or Lobo likely going to deliver that? Heck no.
And why not? I can think of few characters more able to deliver that than Deadpool to be honest
@77 – Scott: The comics Deadpool is also Comic Code Free, as Marvel dropped the CCA in 2001. No comics publisher actually follows it, as of 2010.
Ok, I didn’t read all the comments, but most of what I read focused on the Empire thing, so I’ll start there. First, it may be a generational thing or not. I (and my wife and daughter) will usually refer to the specific movies as Star Wars, Empire and Jedi respectively by those names. I know the original was A New Hope, but we never use that. If referring to a specific movie, and giving the title, that one is almost exclusively referred to as “Star Wars” on our house and I have been corrected by both of them.
In fact, after watching the Rogue One trailer, I was telling my daughter “Remember in Star Wars, when Mon Mothma says ‘Many bothans spies died…” my wife walked through the room and never looking up said “That was Jedi. This is the first Death Star.” Because she is a pedantic nerd.
Speaking of the sexuality, my wife got all squee at them and Reynolds depiction in them a la shirtlessness and such, and saw it as equal on both genders. And for her working at a strip club, are we totally forgetting her job at the start of the film? Vanessa was a hooker. She was, by career distinction, a sex object. The point is Wade saw her as more than that. Yes, their relationship was spun on in sex scenes to SHOW that. I am sure they did more through the year than just that, but it was a fun way to show the time passing and their total infatuation with each other. It was sweet and fun, and made my wife lay her head on my shoulder and smile, holding my hand tightly in the theater.
The film even jokes about the difficulty of interaction between the sexes. “Is it sexist for me to hit you? Is it more sexist for me not to hit you?!” Is it sexist for a movie to depict a prostitute in a sexualized way? Is it MORE sexist to hide a womans sexuality? Even in the sex montage, Vanessa kept her top covered with clothing.
Is the complaint that we never really saw Wades junk, because we never saw hers either. The only sexual scenes all contained both characters, equally sexuallized. And so an ex (presumably) hooker goes from picking up clients in a bar, to working in a strip club as a waitress is staying within her wheelhouse. She chooses in both jobs to exploit her own sexuality to make a living, which is her choice, and totally in line with the character. Or should we demand this woman who used sex for business suddenly change gears and go work at McDonalds, with what I am sure is a stellar resume for the sake of our sensibilities? Sure, you could say “They didn’t HAVE to make her a hooker in the first place!” She is a hooker. He is a mercenary that beats and kills for money. And both are true for the comic . So that doesn’t really hold water and morality doesn’t really play into their careers on that level.
My wife and I both think of ourselves as feminists. My daughter scoffs at the “pink toy aisle” at the store and cries if we don’t make our regular pilgrimage to he favorite comic shop.
So in the end, I think complaining about the “Empire” reference, or the “one sided” sexuality is nit picking, and the viewer trying to put the character in a box, not the film makers.
And if nobody else pointed it out, the line was “It’s like I made you on a computer.” as accurately stated, a reference to Weird Science. And my wife, when I go all googly eyed at her has said long before this movie “It’s like you made me on a computer, I know.” In that light, honestly, this whole thing is kind of insulting. My wife is very much like Vanessa, in her sexuality, her nerd pickyness for getting references correct and so on. Including her love of comics and this movie. To say this is not how women should act or be depicted is to say my wife and women like her were not considered. My wife would argue she totally WAS part of the key demographic. I think the author may be generalizing women more than the movie ever was.
It’s actually funny, because while my wife laughed hard at the “My boyfriend told me…” line, because she knew there WERE those girlfriends were in the theater with us, I had to tell her the one joke I didn’t get was the “Are you there god…” bit. Which she had to explain, because it was out of my wheelhouse, and a reference to something I knew nothing about, but she did, BECAUSE she was a 13 year old girl once and read it.
Seeing a female topless and a male topless is not the same thing, because society places different “sex values” on male chests than on female ones.
She was, by career distinction, a sex object.
No, she’s a sex worker.
Well said.
Wow. It’s you that needs to do your homework. The first Star Wars movie was simply called “Star Wars” when it came out, and it still is to a lot people – who refuse to call it “A New Hope”. You need to be specific when talking about Empire or Jed with those people. So the “it’s all Star Wars” excuse doesn’t hold up at all. The Big Bang Theory made this same joke.
As a female, I cringe when I hear stuff like that in movies too. It’s not that it’s an extreme jab to take at women; it’s just that it’s cliche and it’s sad that a cliche like that is being perpetuated in a big action movie that millions of people are going to see. A movie like that should just feel awesome and fun to watch.
Never really got into the American superhero stuff myself; I was way more of a video game / anime / webcomics fan. Seems like there’s more diversity in that medium (not without its stereotyping, but with a bigger pool there are games that counterbalance the ones that stereotype us). I think female streamers (those of us who don’t just sit there with their boobies out and actually try to play the games well), for example, are helping to change this.
To be honest, I feel like all the American superhero movies coming out now are kind of a “remember the glory days of superhero X that you grew up with and here he is in 4K HD” kind of thing. The old stuff is on its way out, viewers have more control over what they want to watch via streaming services like Netflix, YouTube and Twitch and therefore have a greater influence on “niche” media (like female nerds) that will come into prominence with time. Would Steven Universe have been on TV back in those times? No. Times are changing. There are many shows and games out there that blow stereotypes out of the water.
While I lost interest in seeing Deadpool after watching the trailer, I’m truly sorry for you that times didn’t change soon enough to make it a more inclusive movie. I know that feel, sis. Solidarity.
I don’t get the feminism issue. I’m a female and had no problem with the movie. Feminism has turned into something so far off from women’s rights. The movies are awesome and hilarious, and it’s all in good humor.
@77/Scott: “If plenty of women are already fans of Deadpool, and Deadpool on the screen is just a Comic Code free version of what Posehn/Duggan/Koblish write in the comics, why should they change it?“
Because fandom does not require blind, uncritical acceptance. It is possible to love some things about a work while seeing problems with other things about it and wishing for them to change so that the work can become even better. And creators should be receptive to that kind of constructive criticism, because nobody should be trying harder to improve a work and correct its flaws than its own creators. That’s how things become good, as I said earlier in the thread. And just because something is good in many or most ways, that doesn’t absolve the creators from continuing to strive for greater improvements.