Doctor Who S6, Ep 13: “The Wedding of River Song”

Worst episode of Doctor Who since The Underwater Menace, way back in the Troughton days. No semblance of plot whatsover.

Thank God that season is over. Hope they choose a better gimmick for the next one (or even, gasp, do away with the gimmicky arc plot entirely!)

jasonhenninger – I can help with #4 – The Doctor that married River and was “killed “on the lake was 200 years older than the Doctor who we see live through the events in Day of the Moon – that’s why he acts surprised, for him the wedding hasn’t happened yet.

@10 – i fully agree! how can their polarity issue restart time if he never really touches river? that is right up there with amy pond grabbing amelia pond in “big bang” – a direct violation of the “rose-don’t-touch-the-baby-or-it’ll-cause-a-paradox” principle. the whole resolve turns on this. it was clever making it a justice robot, but not consistent.

otherwise it was fun.

@12 Ahh, but technically she was supposed to shoot the machine all along, hence touching the machine should work. It’s touching the actual Doctor that shouldn’t cause anything to happen.

Could someone explain to me what they think all the continuity or whatever problems are? I don’t see them.

@1 I don’t understand what you mean here.

How was the plot dependant on the Sonic Screwdriver? I don’t recall anything like that.

Secondly, is the Doctor telling a lie really some sort of sloppy story device? I don’t see it. He’s almost always been a bit fast and loose with the truth and that’s part of the fun of the show. Do you think being a clever shouldn’t be a surprise to the audience? I think it works well.

I don’t see how the “Timey Whimey” aspect is a complaint. The only Timey Whimey parts were “all of time happening at once” and “River and the Doctorbot touching undoes that problem.” Neither of those is a device to get the Doctor out of a jam. Heck, they are solely devices to create the jam and add tension. There’s no Timey Whimeyness to the Doctorbot getting shot, because we find out here it was ALWAYS the Doctorbot. Or did you just take River and some one-time companion at their word that it was the Doctor? (Personally I always found that highly suspect).

Certainly the whole thing could have happened without this Episode if River had just shot the Doctor. This entire episode was just meant to be a fun romp and about exploring the charactes and their actions. It seems to do that very well to me.

I very much enjoyed this episode, although I had some trepidation going into it, as there were an awful lot of balls in the air that all needed to be caught if it was going to be a satisfying conclusion to the season. Actually, I saw this as being the second part of a two-part episode; part one being “Let’s Kill Hitler.” The two episodes fit around the second half of the season like bookends.
I liked the way we all knew that the doctor would find a way to avoid dying, but despite knowing the destination, the script made the journey enjoyable. I liked the fact that the thing that needed to be undone to save the universe was not the ‘killing’ of the ‘doctor,’ instead, it was the attempted avoidance of that ‘killing.’ And I very much loved the creepy man-eating skulls, and the blue guy returning as a head in a box, the scariest and funniest images of the show juxtaposed. And the interplay between River and the Doctor was just wonderful.
I wouldn’t say it was the best since “Blink” (I still think Vincent and the Doctor and last season’s conclusion are among those I liked better), but a very satisfying end to the season. I like how it sets up a Doctor that will operate on a smaller scale, as he will be doing some sneaking around to avoid the notice of the Silence, who think him dead. That new direction suits me just fine, as too many BIGGER, MORE EXCITING, MORE ACTION episodes are all forte with no pianissimo, all release with no tension being built.
I look forward to the Christmas episode, and the next season!

@16 The Doctor never says anything about telling his name at weddings, as best I can tell. He only says there’s only one way he’d tell someone and only one way he could. Something like that.

I think his treatment of her in the pyramid is explained by his legitimate outrage over her willingness to let the universe die to save his life. That IS crazy, and he’s angry about it. He definitely softens about things at the end. I suppose one has to decide whether the Doctor not saying “I love you” is odder than him saying it. He definitely isn’t perfect, but that’s always been the case.

Three things:
– After ‘The Impossible Astronaut’ I remarked to my wife that we’d never seen the elder Doctor’s Tardis at any point in the episode, and its fate was unknown. This episode showed what had happened – when we saw the Doctor waving to River from the roboDoctor’s eye, the Tardis was in the background behind him.

– In the scene atop the pyramid, the Doctor is initially dismissive and cruel to River about her beacon, because he knows that she has to ‘kill’ him and she isn’t cooperating. He changes completely when she tells him about all the offers for help, and says “I can’t let you die… without knowing that you are loved”. He realizes then that she was going to go through with the killing, but needed him to face some realities about his place in the universe that he’d been ignoring. That’s when he realized that he could trust her after all – she’d come full circle (kill the Doctor, save the Doctor, kill the Doctor for the right reasons) and that she deserved to know how he felt about her.

– Regarding the First Question: In ‘The Big Bang’ the Doctor flies the Pandorica into the exploding Tardis, rebooting the universe via the Pandorica’s ‘memory’ of the old universe. However, along with the memory, the other thing that the Pandorica contained was the Doctor. So, it stands to reason that the essence of the Doctor was also transmitted into every part of the reborn universe. Thus, the mystery of the Doctor is a fundamental aspect of the rebuilt universe, and who knows what might happen if that Question is finally answered and the mystery resolved?

It’s worthwhile tracking down this week’s Doctor Who Confidential, because it has a long segment that’s basically River Song’s autobiography, showing all the fragments of her life we’ve seen so far, but this time in chronological order from her point of view, with her narration explaining what’s going on. It clears up a lot of the confusing points about her history. And Moffat explicitly says that the one remaining mystery about her that’s still to be answered is how she learned the Doctor’s name.

Oh well, we still have the Fields of Trenzalor coming, don’t we? And I do want to see Jim the Fish.

I have to say, I loved the Pandorica/Big Bang and this has been something of a let down… it has been fun, and I’m quite satisfied with how he got out of this one, but it felt a bit rushed and there were too many giveaways. Was it really necessary to call the episode River’s Wedding? As soon as we learn that by touching River, time would flow again, you know they’re headed for that kiss. Foreshadowing is fine, but I think Doctor Who works better with the unexpected.
Amy’s moment was chilling, but rang true.
But my favourite moment was in the beginning when he encountered the Dalek. He just couldn’t resist taunting his dying enemy, could he? “The Devil Himself”, aren’t you smug, Doctor… XD

@AsheSaorise (#12): River doesn’t know the Doctor’s name yet but that doesn’t mean that she doesn’t learn it before “Silence in the Library.” The most obvious answer would be that she learns it at
Trenzalor. From Dorium’s description, it sounds like no one can tell a lie there, and someone asks the Doctor who is he.

@JFKingsmill16 (#26) & FSS (#27): The sonic screwdriver has definitely gone beyond its stated purpose — which is putting in screws. It went beyond that purpose the first time it appeared. It is a swiss army knife-like gadget that can do a lot of things, but that isn’t a problem unless they start using it to solve the major problems of the episodes. It’s not used for that now — it just keeps the story moving by overcoming some small problems.

I would also argue that the main effect of writing it out of the original series was not to eliminate its misuse (it was very seldomly misused) but to let the writers waste time. On the old series, the writers extended many a four-part serial into a six-part serial with two plot devices — have the serial’s guest stars not trust the Doctor, and have the Doctor get captured repeatedly by the bad guys. Eliminating the sonic screwdriver in the Fifth Doctor era led to a lot of time wasting imprisonment — in “Snakedance,” Nyssa even laments the loss of the sonic screwdriver while she and the Doctor are cooling their heels in jail for fifteen boring minutes of screentime. On the new series, both the sonic screwdriver and the psychic paper have been included to get rid of these two specific kinds of lazy writing. They’re definitely plot devices, but they’re GOOD plot devices. They’re designed to make the writers earn their money by making them come up with problems for the Doctor to solve other than old standbys like distrustful aliens, locked doors, and things that need to be scanned. They keep things moving.

Wow, I have been itching to comment on this episode because for me I think it didn’t answer many questions and brought many more to light. So here goes:

1. Dorium Maldovar’s prophecy: I think the Fall of the 11th likely does refer to the death of this incarnation of the Doctor. What is mysterious is that the Doctor seems to believe that the part of the prophecy that says: ‘the Silence must fall’ refers to the Doctor’s death, rather than the Fall of the Silence, the religious order. The latter interpretation would support the reason for the apparent hostility the Silence holds for the Doctor thus would seem the obvious interpretation, but this is not the Doctor’s understanding. By his understanding wouldn’t the Silence find a reason to deliver the Doctor to Tranzelor as fast as possible? All that would really be required is to deliver some poor unsuspecting British population there and poking them with sticks. Is the Doctor just being hopelessly self involved?, he repeatedly tells us that this is one of his character flaws. Or are the Silence more dependent on the Doctor continuing his efforts for their ability to procure power, than fearful of the damage he can do to them? Moffat seems to love ambivalently held enemies. Wild speculation could make one wonder if the Silence is in fact a religious order dedicated to the worship of the Doctor after all we don’t have a clue about their doctrine (Doc-trine?). Are we meant to make anything of the Doctor at the start of the episode being presented to Churchill by Centurions, like Christ to Pilate?; and at the end of the episode dressed as a monk? It is a prophecy after all.

2. Lake Silencio: When the Doctor asks ‘why Utah?’, Dorium tells him that it is a “still point” in time and so makes “it easier to create a fixed point”. This explanation struck me as odd, if a fixed point is created that begs the question: created by whom? And if a fixed point is ‘created’ doesn’t that go against the premise of fixed points in the first place? If all of time and space exist simultaneously, which is the central idea in the Whoniverse and fixed points hold the fabric together in some coherent manner then doesn’t creating a fixed point change the entire fabric, just as rewriting one does, (ie. pterodactyls in modern London)and if so how does one navigate? Also, if the death of the Doctor is a fixed point then we now know that it is fixed point that refers only to the Death of a Teselecta Doctor, and what’s the big deal? The Doctor after all was ‘hardly singed’. Very confusing, and mysterious. Finally we are told that these changes create time ‘bubbles’ that slowly spread and eventually ‘time is dying’–the beacon River creates out of the Tardis is able to communicate outside the bubble and the universe comes to offer aid to the Doctor (very touching). But I seem to remember that Gallifrey is contained in such a bubble, and one of its ruling class (The Doctor’s mom?) is able to carry on communication with Wilfred (Donna’s grandfather), why isn’t that one expanding and killing off time? Even more confusing and mysterious.

3. Madame Kovarian: I doubt its lost on many that this is a very probable play on Kavorkian. Is her task is to facilitate the Doctor’s suicide? Throughout the season we have seen him painfully slogging toward his own death, all the time distracted by his “guilt” as he is only able to see the damage he does to his loved ones rather than the good he does for the universe (particularly those poor hapless British)and more particularly to those he holds closest. Objectively is there one companion who was not improved by their association with the Doctor? The Doctor and Craig externalize the point-counterpoint argument of the Doctor’s struggle with his own Self view.

So we have Madame Kavorian and the Headless Monks on one side of “this endless bitter war”, they have created an apparent alliance with the Silence, but we are told that the Silence allow no advantage without taking one for themselves (re: the eye drives), Kavorian is surprised that hers is also placed in torture mode. So Who is on the other side??? We know that “a million million voices” answer the distress call to lend their support to the Doctor but all this is seemingly powerless as River is still finding her way to accept the death of the Doctor and all these voices are relegated to the important but unfortunately impotent place of informing the Doctor that despite all his doubt and self loathing the ‘universe does not agree’ that he is a dangerous influence, rather that he is loved, and esteemed by virtually all he has touched.

4. River’s Paradox: Because she loves the Doctor she rewrites the fixed point. She hopes that her love will somehow change or buy some time to come up with a solution hoping that the offers of help will result in a solution, which it doesn’t. His death being the absolutely necessary condition before time can move forward and so her efforts to save him with love, which we have seen work time and time again this season, but seemingly not this time, and not to her knowledge certainly. To RIver, love has lost this one. By the time they make it to the top of the pyramid, she knows absolutely that the Doctor must die but now compromises with informing him of the opinion of the universe because she can’t tolerate the idea that he dies lost in the belief that he is a detriment rather that an asset. And despite her feeling that her sorrow trumps all of the sorrow, every individuals sorrow, throughout the universe, at her individual loss of the Doctor and she accepts that her priority is to destroy the bubble just as she created. Even as the Doctor brutally humiliates her for her presumptuousness, and is embarrassed by her actions. She stands her ground and accepts his derision willingly, even though these may be the last words he speaks to her. How epic is that?! At this point he marries her and let’s her in on his secret. The joke is this, it is River’s love that saves the Doctor because she created the condition where the Teselecta could make a potent offer of help. C’mon, Moffat is good.

Sorry for the length but had to get these thoughts out somewhere, anyone else thinking about these things?

Remember when we all thought that Moffat becoming showrunner was an excellent development? Seems like another lifetime, at points. That’s certainly not how I feel now.

It’s not that I thought “The Wedding of River Song” was terrible. It’s a lot better than the worst Doctor Who finales, and has a lot of good elements, even things that were great in short segments. Emphasis on the short length, though. I’m beginning to feel that Moffat’s strengths lie in a much shorter runtime, like the Time/Space comedy sketch. Judged as a whole episode, it’s a lot weaker. As the conclusion to a seasonal arc, weaker still.

Why did the Silence want to blow up the universe at the end of season five? It appears that they somehow remote-controlled the TARDIS to explode, despite the fact that we now know quite well they
are in the universe and want to go on living, it doesn’t serve their
interests in any way to lay waste. Perhaps we’re meant to take it that
they anticipated the Doctor’s fix and detonation of the TARDIS to
recreate the universe, but didn’t think he would be able to survive
that, the whole point was to get rid of him ever existing, when that
failed they went with the Utah fixed point of time. Which would seem to make a certain amount of sense, after all it seemed that the Doctor was gotten rid of and only revived because River showed up, and it’s not like the Silence would know her well enough to anticipate she might–oh, wait. That doesn’t work either. The way things have played out suggests that Moffat is making things up as he goes, it served his S5 story to have there be time cracks created by a TARDIS explosion created by a mysterious force, this group is made the villains of S6 without any clear connection to their past actions. This season it’s time for a completely different MO.

Let’s talk about the Utah death, then.
The problem with it is first that it doesn’t work as any kind of active
plot–the Doctor went to that point and walked up to the suited figure
because he already knew it was going to happen, without awareness of the death already happened it would not have occurred. How did the Silence manage to initiate it, then? What causes it to form? Furthermore there’s the issue of the whole thing ringing emotionally hollow now. I didn’t hate the way they explained the Doctor’s survival, partly because it wasn’t the fake out I’d anticipated (ganger Doctor) and it featured him being believably clever. Still, the more I think on it the more problems there are. Recall the “Doctor” started to regenerate after getting shot, I guess the mimickry now covers that. There’s a larger sense of pointlessness, though, given the Doctor told River about his trick, and she eventually told the others. Why end up playing things the way they went, except as a trick on the audience, in this episode and especiallyat the start of the season? Why not send out the letters to them to say ‘Here’s a charade I need your help in, pretend that I’m going to be dead for reals but actually I’ll be fine.’ It’s a writterly slight of hand, and renders a lot of the past emotion by Eleven and all of the mystery rather pointless.

There is some positive potential in this–I like the idea that the Doctor will be laying low and doing less flashy stuff to have people assume that he’s dead. (His continued presence may be assumed as non-linear travels for quite awhile). That is somewhat undermined by the very close of the episode, where the whole secret of the universe is revealed to be the show title, promising even more focus on the Doctor as the God-of-Gods, and unproductive meta diversions.

There were things I liked–the matter of fact bizareness of the hybrid time, a number of forceful Doctorly moments, and a more natural pulling together of different resources than in “A Good Man Goes to War”. There were still some significant issues, though, like the fact that
structurally so much of the episode relied on alternate-Churchill as an
audience and Dorium Maldovar knowing absolutely everything by the end.

And then there’s River. She’s appeared in six episodes this season,
which is exactly six too many, and remains the albatross of Moffat’s run as show writer. There’s no valid reason within this episode script for having a marriage with the Doctor, and her attitude remains entirely insufferable. I’m prepared to regard her as more annoying than Rose or Adric at this point, because she’s ultimately less relatable–although the writers still don’t understand what “psychopath” means–and her increasingly tangled timeline means biting off more than is coherent. This episode faces the issue a bit more squarely, with River claiming she knew Amy was her mother and a lot of what would happen, but pretended not to know. Uh, no. That just doesn’t work, the character has never been written or acted in a way that would carry that level of deception off convincingly. We’ve seen her lie before, and it’s been far more obvious than the times when she apparently ‘knew it all’, the show hasn’t done the kind of planning out that would make their retro-continuity plausible.

So, at least we’ll always have Churchill, head of the Holy Roman Empire. That aside, I didn’t think this season came together very well at all.

To echo what was said above, thanks Teresa for the reviews, and everyone else for the discussions that ensued, I had lots of fun reading it all.

Thanks Teresa and everyone else on this thread. I’m with AlBrown on this, I really appreciate all the thought and discussion and it has been enormous fun both in the reading and the writing. No other site seems to be so interested in actually piecing together both the science and the plot, and complaining vociferously about both. Poor Moffat, I hope he knows how much we actually appreciate him…I think we appreciate him…well, I know I do at least. I’m looking forward to the Christmas episode and hearing a whole new avalanche of accolade and derision from this tribe. Again thanks to you all.

@47 JEKingsmill16
I think that’s the only example in 11th’s run of something like that. One could argue we merely don’t see the start of the loop. From a story perspective, it didn’t seem that important to me. It wasn’t a major problem of the two parter.

In any case, since we’re talking about the LATEST season, maybe we should stick to that? There wasn’t anything wrong with the time travel in it, AFAIK.

@48 FSS: I assume it was just part of the duping technology of the robot.

In the spirit of “hey, folks, it’s only a TV show” I envision the Christmas special as holiday dinner at the Who’s [Whose? Who else’s?]:

Doctor and River, The and Jenny [the Masters] and little Susan. And of course the in-laws have to show up—[“gawd, I hope Dad’s not wearing the Roman thing again”]–and Doctor and River have apparently gotten busy during the off-season because Cindy Lou Who is there to carve the Roast Beast…

I liked “The Wedding of River Song” .

I want to see how next season will deal with the death of the DOCTOR,
And how every alian race that the doctor has battled with and beaten will react to his death.

I want to see the Doctors Daughter step up and do battle with all those who would wage war on the people of earth in all the future timelines.
I want to see TORCHWOOD become the hub for Sung/Doctor intergalactic trading company.

I Liked the part where River tells her mom her days belong to Stormcage but the nights belong to me and the Doctor , Any chance River is going to have the Doctors children?? That would be outstanding. Any chance Amy will get to baby sit her grand kids that would be something to see.

In the the next season if the Doctor wants to stay in the background after becoming to big. He will have do do the following:

1)He will have to fix the commelion circuit on the TARDIS so that it can look like anything on any planet the doctor visits.
2) He will have to change how he looks,I liked the beard when he was Churchill’s south sayer in the The Wedding of River Song.
3) He will have to create the time agency.To do battle against all threats to earth and the rest of the galaxy.
4) He will have to set it up in 1783 in England ,the colonies ,India ,China,Russia and several other places.
5) The time agency will be more top secret than TORCHWOOD ever was.
6) Faincing will be through archeological finds.River Sung can hop around through time,all she has to do is burry some treasure in the 10th century then dig it up in the 16th . She can do this over and over again on a thousand different planets .She will be a extriemly wealthy woman.

I look forward to seeing what you come up with in the 7th season.
The Question that the silence do not want answered can be addressed in season 8.
I have been watching DR WHO for over twenty years.Do not let us down .

I look forward to the next season,make it a great one.

Best Regards.