Alice: Welcome back to the penultimate episode of the Edgedancer reread! Lyndsey is back with us this week, fresh off her spooky tour of the haunted places of Massachusetts. How fitting, as Lift makes a paranormal discovery of her own this week…
Lyn: It’s appropriate that we dive into these two chapters just before Halloween, because storms above is chapter 18 a creepy one. The Everstorm approaches, no one is what they seem, and food is scarce in this week’s installment of the Edgedancer reread!
The Awesomeness
Chapter 17: Lift attempts to be awesome at Awesomeness and completely fails… so she falls back on running after the two Skybreakers instead. She arrives at the amphitheater out of stormlight. Before she can make her way into the alleyway where she hears a scream, the Stump arrives and hauls her into the orphanage for safety. She gives Lift the final of the three meals she was promised, then Lift makes her way back out into the alleyway to find out what has become of the Philosopher.
Chapter 18: Lift tentatively makes her way into the alley, looking for the body of the Philosopher. She finds the bodies of the two Skybreakers instead, and discovers that the Philosopher is not at all what he seemed. He is a collective of cremlings, a creature hundreds (if not thousands) of years old. He holds no kind regard towards Nale, but doesn’t seem to hold any animosity towards Lift. During their discussion, Lift realizes that the other proto-Radiant in the city is none other than Stump, who has been unconsciously healing the children brought to her with stormlight. She runs off to try to save her from Nale, who is most certainly on his way.
Kadasixes and Stars
…maybe even a thief and a thug could do some good along the way.
L: You’re one to talk, Lift, with how much food you steal! On a more serious note, I’d like to use this opportunity to have a bit of fun and imagine how Lift is going to react to/interact with some of the other Main Characters, should she ever meet them. (All this Oathbringer hype’s gotten me wanting to speculate!) Let’s start off with my favorite – Kaladin. I’ve mentioned before in this reread that I think they’ll get along well. Kaladin has a tendency to take the lost and forgotten under his wing, and he’s got a surprising amount of patience for those who he helps this way. I can definitely see him being a big brother type to Lift, should they ever meet.
A: It seems to me that first impressions could be crucial, here. If he sees her vulnerability, like we’ve been seeing (inside her head) these last few chapters, he would totally become a brother, guardian, and mentor. If he sees her snarky, independent, irreverent persona first… I’m less sure.
L: That’s a really good point. He wasn’t too keen on Shallan until he saw her vulnerable side. Though Lift’s darkeyed, so she’s got that in her favor at least. If she were lighteyed Kal would give her even less of a chance! Speaking of Shallan… Do you think she’d just be annoyed by the “lower” humor Lift uses as opposed to her puns and “witticisms”?
A: Hah! Not in the least! Shallan might blush redder than her presumed Shardplate will someday glow, but she did a fair bit of off-color joking with her brothers. She’d probably think Lift was a priceless treasure! Uh… Although maybe not with Adolin around…
L: Which segues us nicely into Adolin and Renarin! So far Adolin seems to be quite a lot like Kaladin, in that he’s kind-hearted towards the downtrodden (even if he does give them nicknames like “Bridgeboy”). I think he’d be kind and patient with Lift, and probably have to restrain laughter at some of her more colorful epithets. As for Renarin… poor kid’s had it rough, so he and Lift have a bit of a kinship there… but he’s also very introverted. I suspect that Lift would make him feel uncomfortable and on-edge.
A: I think you’re totally right about Adolin; Renarin is trickier. Exposed to the side of Lift we get in most of these two chapters – the uncertain, questioning, lost little girl, I could see Renarin feeling a certain kinship. But if all he got was the cocky street kid with enormous attitude… uncomfortable and on-edge would be the minimum.
L: As for Dalinar… he’s shown a lot of patience and kindness for those who are downtrodden, too, exemplified the most in his saving Kaladin from Sadeas. Lift’s also a Knight Radiant, so I suspect he’d feel a certain obligation in keeping her from harm.
She’d sworn an oath to remember people like them. She hadn’t meant to. It had just kind of happened. Like everything in her life just kind of happened.
“I want control,” she whispered.
A: I hope that someday we see the beginnings of her development as a Radiant. So many of the things she thinks, especially in these last few chapters, seem so poignant now. From the outside, it sometimes looks like she’s “doing stuff,” but from inside her head when she’s being honest with herself, it’s hard not to see the vulnerability of a child who is alone in the world.
L: Well, she’s supposed to have a book in the back 5, right? So we’d be getting flashbacks of some sort. Whether they’d be of her time before Way of Kings, or from the time skip (there is going to be a time skip, right? I’m remembering that correctly?) we don’t have any way of knowing, though.
A: That’s what I’m wondering. Given the time skip between arcs, I don’t know whether to expect the second-arc flashbacks to go back to the very beginning, or just cover the stuff we need to know from the skip. Possibly both.
Pet Voidbringer
She felt him wrap around her leg and tighten there, like a child clinging to his mother.
L: D’AW.
Listen.
Lift hesitated, then patted [Wyndle]. She just… she just had to accept it, didn’t she?
L: For a moment I really thought that this was her way of saying “yes I was listening to you this whole time and I know that you’re supposed to be my Shardblade,” but… I guess not.
A: Not directly, maybe, but I think this acceptance is a step in that direction. Accepting that it’s okay to not know what to do – that maybe no one really does – is a profound acceptance of the First Ideal. Realizing that she can still make a decision and act on it, even not knowing if it’s right, may be what frees her to speak her next Ideal.
This whole conversation is stuffed with listening. Between thoughts directly about listening, and snippets of things she listened to, she’s moving toward the Ideal that will take her to the next level. She’s going to listen as hard as she can, and what she understands from really listening will give her the understanding to act as needed. And of course, when she speaks the words, she’ll gain the Shard…things that Wyndle can become, so she has time and opportunity to do what she has decided on.
Journey before Pancakes
L: Another of the Sweet Stuff Pancakes.
A: And a good thing, too – she’s going to need all the awesomeness she can get. (I wonder whether she gains more from protein or carbohydrates. Because I think about these things.)
L: I’d guess carbs, if only because she seems to metabolize the energy swiftly. Maybe protein gives her more, but it’s more of a slow burn…
Friends and Strangers
Mik
L: Man, I hope he gets reunited with his mother someday, and that it is a happy reunion…If she only had to give him up because she couldn’t care for him because of the injury, there’s a possibility that they could find one another again… right?
A: RAFO!! (I really love the way this works out, but it won’t happen until next week, so I refuse to comment further.)
L: Once again my awful memory betrays me.
A: Speaking of Mik, I love the way this slips in here, before Lift has it figured out. On a first read, it’s interesting; on a reread, it’s Blatant Foreshadowing of the Most Blatant Sort.
Philosopher/Arclo
L: PREPARE FOR THINGS TO GET SPOOKY UP IN HERE. Also for me to type in all caps a lot because I love horror and this scene makes me all the right kinds of happy.
“She listened as the silence of the alley gave way to a clicking, scraping sound. It encircled her.”
L: BUGS. WHY DID IT HAVE TO BE BUGS.
A: So we could all be as totally creeped out as possible, of course. I don’t mind bugs in general, but when I can hear them skitter? In the dark? Giving the impression that they could jump on me unexpectedly? CRRREEEEEP OUT.
The walls seemed to be moving, shifting, sliding like they were covered in oil.
L: Right, so. I’m a huge fan of Stephen King and all things horror. I’ve been working in haunted houses for almost 20 years and spend an embarrassing amount of time watching horror films and tv shows (have you seen The Exorcist TV show yet? If not, go watch it because it’s awesome). I do actual paranormal investigations and have done the overnight lockdown tour of the Trans-Allegheny Lunatic Asylum. So believe me when I say that it takes a lot to creep me out. AND THIS DID IT. Well done, Sanderson.
The shape of a man, though as lightning lit him she could see that he wasn’t all there. Chunks were missing from his flesh. His right shoulder ended in a stump, and storms, he was naked, with strange holes in his stomach and thighs. Even one of his eyes was missing. There was no blood though, and in a quick succession of flashes she picked up something climbing his legs. Cremlings.
L: So Mister Oogie Boogie from Nightmare Before Christmas, only human-shaped and without the burlap sack. (And presumably he doesn’t glow under a black-light.) Awesome. So awesome. I envision these cremlings as roaches, probably because roaches gross me out, though I suspect they’re supposed to look a bit more like little shrimp.
Thousands upon thousands of cremlings coated the walls, each the size of a finger. Little beasts of chitin and legs clicking away and making that awful buzz.
L: SANDERSON. WHY. NO. (but-actually-yes-please-keep-doing-this-it’s-amazing)
A: SANDERSON. WHY. NO. (Really. NO.)
Several climbed up his face, and his eyes crawled out, new ones replacing them so that he went from being darkeyed to light.
L: Dude. So aside from the amazing horror aspect of this, I also like that he can change his eye color. This is a handy trick to have in a society where eye color equates social standing.
A: Heh. So by this time, I just have to shut off all the put-myself-in-her-place imagination and switch to analytical mode. In that light – wow, this is cool stuff! So awesome to be able to change details as needed.
“Is my mind becoming full? I can breed new hordelings specialized in holding memories. Do I need to sense what is going on in the city? Hordelings with extra eyes, or antennae to taste and hear, can solve that.”
L: This is just such a cool concept. I’ve seen collective consciousness stuff done in other media ::cough the Borg cough:: but this is a really fascinating take on it. He’s not assimilating other aspects into himself, he’s literally breeding them. And how does that work? How does he imbue these hordelings with these special abilities (which sound an awful lot like how the Steel Inquisitors gained powers which weren’t theirs by birth, just sayin’)? There’s got to be some sort of magic going on here, I’d assume of a kind that’s native to the world, since these buggies are just so… Roshar. Is it selective breeding over the course of hundreds of years, in which he finds bugs with recessive traits and slowly makes them dominant? Or is this some sort of magical power where he can force the traits into the hordelings?
Axies the Collector
“When one achieves immortality, one must find purpose beyond the struggle to live, as old Axies always said.”
L: So do all the Aimians know one another, or what? (Also, it bears mentioning that I had forgotten about the fact that Axies was an Aimian and had to go look it up on the Coppermind. Did we learn about the Siah in the text, Alice, or is that WoB stuff?)
A: It’s kind of a mixture. We learned the names of both Siah and Dysian in the text of TWoK, (Interlude 5 and Chapter 54, respectively), and we learn a few things about them – like how the Siah can modify their bodies, and (though I didn’t register it at the time) how Dysians can take themselves apart and recombine differently. But for me, anyway, the WoB cleared up a lot of confusion about them.
… and created other confusion, come to think of it. Combining all the little tidbits together, you get a very interesting picture of these two races. Back to the first question, I think it’s fairly safe to say that all the Aimians know each other. There aren’t all that many of them, and it seems that there are even fewer of the Dysian than the Siah Aimians. Add to that, they seem to all be virtually immortal, so, yeah. I think they all know each other.
Storming Mother of the World and Father of Storms Above
“I heard an interesting idea once, while traveling in a land you will never visit.”
A: First of all, is he referring to Aimia? Or has he been to other planets, and knows there are good reasons that no human will go there? … or is this just the arrogance of someone widely travelled, dismissing the possibilities available to a street urchin?
Second, who are the Omnithi? Are they just some obscure little splinter group somewhere, or are we going to see them again? There are some very odd belief systems in this Cosmere…
Darkness & Co.
“I’m not the one that Nale is chasing; he knows to stay away from me and my kind.”
L: Well that’s interesting. Even the Heralds are afraid of the Aimians?
A: I really wondered about this. Arclo indicates that he’s on the same side as the Radiants, which sort of also implies the Heralds, but then he says that Nale knows to stay away from him. Is that because he’s a Herald, or because he’s Nale the Crazed Skybreaker? Would the other Heralds find a friend in him?
Everything Else
Places for forgotten children.
She’d sworn an oath to remember people like them.
[…]
One old man, found dead in an alley after the storm.
But Lift… Lift would remember him.
L: Oh honey, you have no idea. You’re not gonna be able to forget THIS guy for a loooooong time, I don’t think.
“I want control. … Not like a king or anything. I just want to be able to control it, a little. My life. I don’t want to get shoved around, by people or fate or whatever. I just… I want it to be me who chooses.”
L: This feels like a running theme in Stormlight. Kaladin wants control over his circumstances so he can protect those he cares about. Shallan wants control over her life, too. So does poor Szeth, who’s been forced to do such awful things against his will. Renarin seems to want some kind of agency instead of being pulled along in Dalinar and Adolin’s wakes. Dalinar’s probably the only one to break the mold, here, as he’s always had quite a lot of control over the events in his life… perhaps too much control.
A: Kind of a running theme in real life, isn’t it? Don’t we all long for a little more control over the kinds of things that happen to us? How we react to the realization of not being in control shapes who we become.
The hungry sky rumbled above. Lift knew that feeling. Too much time between meals, and looking to eat whatever it could find, never mind the cost.
L: Only Lift would describe a sky as HUNGRY.
I’m confused about the way this city is set up. Lift mentions how stupid it is to have homes inside the slots, but isn’t the city constructed in such a way that the storm waters will flow down the bottoms? Why is she surprised when people don’t leave their homes? Do they not do so for other storms? Even if this storm is blowing the wrong way, that shouldn’t matter if the homes are all safely down inside slots/valleys, right?
A: Well, I finally did it. I went searching for a description that I knew was in here somewhere… but it turns out that what I was remembering is from the alpha read, and got pruned out. Back in chapter 4, Lift noted that all the shanties were up on stilts and all the homes and shops that were carved into the stone have three or four steps up to the doorways, to keep them above the water level during a storm.
L: That’s right! It was the bit with the steps that I remembered.
A: But in the alpha, there was also a description of a narrow but very deep opening at the sides of the streets – more or less a storm drain. I don’t know if it was because Sanderson decided it didn’t work, or because he was cutting word count, and decided it wasn’t really necessary to explain everything beyond what Lift says there:
“The waters should still wash this place away,” Lift said.
Well, they obviously didn’t, or the place wouldn’t be here.
Sometimes, you don’t need to get into the engineering of a place, and you just state that it works…
Anyway, back to your comment, Lyn, I assumed Lift’s comment about people being stupid to stay in their homes rather than seeking a storm shelter was aimed at those who lived in the alleyway – the shanty dwellers. The city is set up to minimize the wind and to carry off the excess water, but the shanties built in the alleyways would still be vulnerable – and tonight, more than ever. Also, a day or two in this city can’t change the attitudes developed over a lifetime of living in places where seeking shelter was vital during highstorms.
L: The corpse of the Skybreaker woman is covered in a… a silky substance? What is that and why does it creep me out so much? Are the hordelings secreting some sort of webbing like spiders? Ugh. Now I’ve creeped myself out even more.
A: Well, thanks for nothing, Lyn. Now I’m going to see the Dysian cremlings as a spider horde. And I’ve always been terrified of spiders. FINE.
L: You’re welcome. ::blows kiss::
“There are a group of people who believe that each day, when they sleep, they die,” the old man continued. “They believe that consciousness doesn’t continue – that if it is interrupted, a new soul is born when the body awakes.”
L: Yeeeaaaahhhhh that’s a creepy thought. Do they try to stay awake for long periods of time?
“One would assume that chaos would follow if each human sincerely believed that they had only one day to live.”
L: Philosophically/sociologically speaking this is fascinating to consider.
A: This whole philosophy is bizarre. How does an author come up with stuff like this? But as you say, however bizarre it may be, it’s a fascinating thought experiment!
“You needn’t fear me. My war is your war, and has been for millennia. Ancient Radiants named me friend and ally before everything went wrong.”
L: Somehow I find this hard to believe COMING FROM A CREEPY BUG MONSTER DUDE.
“We watch the others. The assassin. The surgeon. The liar. The highprince.”
L: I really like that he echoes the text from the back of The Way of Kings here – especially since that description of the story was what got me to pick the book up in the first place. (For those who might not have read it, this is the passage I’m referencing:)
There are four whom we watch. The first is the surgeon, forced to put aside healing to become a soldier in the most brutal war of our time. The second is the assassin, a murderer who weeps as he kills. The third is the liar, a young woman who wears a scholar’s mantle over the heart of a thief. The last is the highprince, a warlord whose eyes have opened to the past as his thirst for battle wanes.
L: Now I’m wondering if an Aimian might not have been the narrator in that…
A: I’m not 100% on this, but I think that’s been confirmed.
“I can pass for a human almost as well as a Siah these days.”
L: I had to go and look “Siah” up, because I had completely forgotten what they were. Thank the Stormfather for the coppermind wiki…
A: Amen.
The Stump trades spheres for ones of lesser value, probably swapping dun ones for infused ones. She launders money because she needs the stormlight; she probably feeds on it without realizing what she’s doing!”
L: I think I see now. So she’s trading, say, a dun garnet for an infused diamond (garnet is worth more than diamond)? I’m still not sure I understand how this is considered laundering, based on what I know of the technique from films/tv shows/books.
A: Well. Back in the Chapter 13 & 14 reread, I mentioned that I assumed she was “trading larger dun spheres for smaller infused ones” – maybe this is why I made that assumption. One of the dangers of a reread is that sometimes you don’t realize you’re remembering things that come later in the story! The fact that the Stump doesn’t realize she’s using the Stormlight still makes me wonder why she would do this, though.
One week and two chapters left! Join us in the comments, and don’t forget to mark (or white out) spoilers if you address the Oathbringer early release chapters.
Lyndsey recommends her fellow horror fans check out “As Above So Below,” an under-appreciated film in honor of the season. She’s begun work on her own Shardblade in the hopes that she’ll have it finished by the November release party, so if you want to follow along on her progress, follow her on facebook.
Alice hopes you had the opportunity to check out the Highstorms article from resident Stormwarden Ross Newberry yesterday. Keep watching for more good info! Also, in case anyone cares, volleyball season is finally over and life can go back to whatever passes for normal around her house.
Great stuff, ladies! I think maybe the Stump is trading dun spheres for infused ones because she needs the light for the orphanage?
Knew I wasn’t going to be able to stop after Chapter 18. Oh well.
We’ve had examples of other proto-Radiants being confused as to why spheres kept going dun around them. If we ever get an explicit explanation of the currency values (like I hear there’s going to be in the NotW 10-year edition), maybe we’ll see that she could get stormlight without taking too much of a loss from a currency perspective. And then that still looks suspicious to outsiders.
I loved the concept of Lift thinking “ok let me awesome my way down the Grand Indecision and I’ll do it just like this!” and then completely failing at executing. Felt very real to me. Also love that she keeps referring to it with the wrong name.
I think it’s laundering because when the money passes through her hands (and she absconds with the Stormlight) it breaks the trail to its criminal origins. It’s not racketeering profits, it’s a payment from an orphanage for services rendered.
@2 IRRC, theoretically, dun and infused spheres are worth the same amount. Which probably means that things like taxes can be paid with infused or dun spheres interchangeably or that merchants are legally required by some governments to accept dun or infused spheres at face value. In practice, people have more confidence in infused spheres since they’re obviously not counterfeit, which implies infused spheres are worth slightly more.
Speaking of which, have we got any explanation about how spheres are minted?
I wonder what is the dynamics between the Dysian and Siah Aimian are? Will either or both become involved in the Desolation or will they continue to stay on the sidelines and observe? Did they fight in past Desolations? For that matter, are the Aimian aware of the larger Cosmere?
What would happen if an Aimian, especially a Dysian Aimian, became a holder of one of the Shards. That could be an interesting twist. I have the impression (but probably wrong) that all of original holders of the 16 Shards were human. I wonder if the Shard would have the same effect on a being who was not human as it would on a human. On Roshar, would an Aimian have had a different concept of Honor or Cultivation than the two holders of those Shards? I realize that most, if not all, the questions I asked in this paragraph are rhetorical. Nevertheless, I think they are still interesting to ponder.
Lyndsey: Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that eye color only mattered in Vorin society. Societies on the western part of Roshar (and the Parshendi, for that matter) did not based their place in society based on eye color.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
aka the musespren
I don’t know if it’s been confirmed outside of text yet, but I’m guessing that the Aimian are one of Roshar’s native species. They were probably allies with the Heralds because they didn’t want Odium to break their world. And since they (probably) predate the arrival or the Shardholders, they might have abilities and powers beyond the people patronized by Honor, Cultivation, and Odium, which might explain why even Nale would be wary of them. I wonder about the scouring of their homeland, and the Curse of Kind. Also why they have such a bad reputation. Is it because of Vorinism, maybe? Or because they freaking creep people out and seem to play along with humans’ attempts to hurt them as if they are adults obliged to take part in a children’s game? Well, Axies did. Arclo just killed the “children.” I’m torn between feeling sorry for two potential Radiants and their spren who were allowed to confront an opponent their patron Herald knew was far beyond their abilities to handle, and thinking they kinda deserved it for being willing to kill a seemingly defenseless man even if they do believe it’s their holy mission to do so.
Just a quick thought on the last section while I’m thinking of it – if Stump is using Stormlight without realizing it, she could still want to trade dun spheres for infused ones just for the light. Like, she may not understand that she’s using the Stormlight to heal, but she does know her spheres are going dun, and would want to replace the lost light.
“I heard an interesting idea once, while traveling in a land you will never visit.”
Considering how long these guys live, this might not be condescension–the place might literally not exist anymore, either culturally or physically.
The reveal of the dysian was definitely one of those head-slapper moments. “So that’s what the bugs watching her everywhere were about.”
@@.-@, AndrewHB
WoB is that at least one of the shards isn’t human (WOB). And I’m not sure. That’s an interesting question to ask. I would think that it wouldn’t matter since the hosts are taken over by the intent of the shards. Preservation, for example.
@@@@@ several – Good point, that she might think she just wants the charged spheres for light, since with a lot of kids around, lamps or candles might be a bad idea. Plus stormlight is more easily renewable than oil, and if she makes a little extra by laundering the occasional spheres… well, it’s sort of a donation to the kids, right?
Gak! I love the info in these chapters, but I am not a horror fan and the cremlings creep me out!! I refuse to think of them as little spiders. But wouldn’t it be cool to be able to change things like eye color that easily?
I think it shows just how out of touch Nale is with reality to let his little skybreakers go up against the Dysian like that. Or maybe he was looking for a convenient way to get rid of them.
I like the idea that the Stump trades in for smaller spheres to keep the lights on, but is that really a good idea in an orphanage? I know the kids won’t all be like Lift, but for kids with nothing wouldn’t that be a huge temptation?
Really looking forward to the last week of the reread, but dang it’s getting hard to stay away from all the OB spoilers out there! Only a few weeks left!!
Does anyone else get Ed from Cowboy Bebop vibes from Lift? At least when she is being quirky
@11 I don’t think he knew the Dysian was there. Nale may be insane, but he’s not wasteful–especially of his time in teaching them. He knows OF the Dysian, but likely didn’t know it was hanging around his target–who they only just identified.
I’m pretty sure you’re getting it mixed up still. Stump is not laundering spheres, they just assumed she must be up to something because it does not seem to make logical sense that she is trading spheres for ones of lesser value, being involved in laundering therefor seems the most logical explanation. Those who suspect her of laundering are just unaware that she is actually gaining more stormlight from her dealings. Lift hears these suspicions and assumes them to be true because she sees Stump as a miserable old baggage who is clearly up to something. Later Lift guesses that even Stump may not realise what she is doing.
So are the Aimans and kandra buddies? Or like rivals? Or have no idea that the others exist?
@@@@@7 hammerlock
I think you’re right about this one, civilizations come and go, and can very easily be forgotten. We’ve seen with both the names of the heralds and the current countries vs the old silver kingdoms that these things have drifted and reformed quite a bit over time.
@@@@@ 10 Wetlandernw
In chapter 3 it says that open flame is forbidden in Tashikk. So Stump’s only options are stormlight or darkness. Since she’s running an orphanage with so many kids, having no light seems rather unmanageable.
About the spheres, I think we knew from Kaladin’s chapters in WoK that you can trade dun spheres for infused ones, but you have to pay a small fee. So pay 10 dun spheres, get 9 in return. Either way, she’s losing money.
This is probably why the authorities believe she’s laundering money. After all, why would she willingly lose money without getting something else in return. So something fishy must be going on (in their minds).
However that does make you wonder, did she only start doing this now? Did her gems last the whole weeping before and now she’s draining them they’re going dun super fast so she’s desperate? If she does this trade every weeping (and only then) because the orphanage needs light, I can’t see how it’s suspicious.
…and then there’s Arclo. Who wins the creepy character of the century award by a mile. He makes me very glad it’s a book instead of a movie, and I don’t have to think too deeply about the hordelings.
First off, another great summary.
Also, ever since I read these chapters, I am always leery when cremlings are mentioned (especially in my recent reread of Stormlight 1/2 for the Oathbringer release)… And each time I get creeped out.
Edit – double post
So, anyone else remember when WoK originally came out and it seemed like everyone and their dog thought the big reveal about the parshendi was going to be some sort of hive-mind (based in their ability to hear/attune rhythms)? Yeah, looking back at that, I’ma guess that Brandon and co were just laugh laugh laughing behind their hands and saying “nope, your totally off base….RAFO” – wait til you see the Aimians.
On non-human shards – yes, confirmed that at least one was not. At other times, Brandon simply RAFOs any question connected to it (that I have seen). He has also mentioned though that there are 3 sentient races on Yolen – though looking at this, it makes me wonder if Brandon is trying to be tricksy with his verbiage to distract/throw people off.
NUTIKETAIEL
Were the original sixteen Shardholders after the shattering all human?
BRANDON SANDERSON
Uh … RAFO. There are three races on Yolen. Three sentient races.
I continue to admire Lift so much. Her courage and fortitude and kindness, wit and wisdom and willingness to try things at which she might spectacularly fail. Other characters have these traits as well, but somehow I find them especially memorable and inspiring in Lift.
On my first read, I was too eager for another action scene to focus much on Arclo’s speech. This time, I thoroughly enjoyed it, the ponderings of an inhuman immortal still struggling to understand humans through the lens of his own ways of life. I would kind of like to talk with him (i.e. listen to him ramble) for a long time, though I’d want to keep my eyes closed against his creepy appearance. And preferably not while out in a highstorm.
I definitely missed the reference to the assassin, the surgeon, the liar, and the highprince here, and I’m pretty sure I missed it in WoK as well. Our other heroes don’t know who’s been watching them…
From last week’s chapters, “I like crazy people. It’s fun to watch them lick walls and eat rocks.” Says the girl who once tried to eat a roofing tile.
I especially liked Lift identifying with the “hungry sky.” I want her to describe everything in the world.
The whole ‘People who believe they die when they sleep’ thing comes from Transhumanism.
The discussion goes like this:
Point the first. Anything a living thing can do, a machine can do. Because we all use the same set of physical laws.
So it follows that /eventually/ (Whether or not it is practical is a different question) Be able to transfer consciousness from Point A to point B – the classic example is: Put your mind in a computer.
Is it you?
So you get people who say it is, IF AND ONLY IF there is continuity of consciousness from your living self to your machine self (Or second living self, or energy being form, or swarm nanotech consciousness..)
On the basis it’s only you if you’re conscious for the transfer, if there is a direct trace of experience.
To which the rejoinder is: So when did you last sleep?
@20 “It’s fun to watch them lick walls and eat rocks” – I want to say Allomancer Jak claims to get enough trace minerals from licking the walls of a cave at one point to be able to get out of some crazy situation. And in a certain way, many of our magic users on Scadrial eat rocks. I always read that line as a nod to Scadrial’s magic/maybe a hint that Lift has met some Allomantic worldhoppers, whether or not she knew about it. Timeline-wise, I think Hoid would have had allomancy when she knew him?
I loved the start of Ch17. Looking at it from the Assassin’s point of view.
The Little Radiant looks determined. She begins to glow and runs down the stairs. She leaps onto the railing… And promptly falls on her face.
I really want to know what Szeth is thinking at that moment.
@13. actually, i think Nale doesn’t train his ‘skybreakers’ to be full knights radiant.
look at what he dies to Szeth. he gives him nightblood. he doesn’t assign him a spren. and while he advises his people to progress further, he sends them on what, to him, is an obviously futile and dangerous situation.
my thinking is…when he finds a potential skybreaker who has bonded a spren, he adopts them until the get to the point where they are ready to swear the later oaths and become full Knights, at which point he ‘allows’ them to die. that way he gets help and he keeps to his mission to not allow the knights radiant to come back and restart the desolations. after all, if the danger comes from human surgebinders, why would he allow any at all?
I have to admit, I never quite bought that Stump didn’t know what she was doing (even though I guess that’s the canon explanation) since it still seems kind of odd she would go through the trouble of laundring the spheres for stormlight if she didn’t know. What was her actual movie, then? (Granted, I don’t quite understand how ‘laundering’ works. What is she getting out of it?)
@24 – interesting perspective on Nale and how he’s skirting his own principles (but still following the letter of the law) to get the help he needs…just makes him (in his current form) even more despicable.
I need to go refresh myself on the Aimian stuff because it’s all very fuzzy in my mind. Off to the coppermind :D
To the dying every night theory, I think Buddhists believe that a person doesn’t have a “self” or a soul. The person you are today is not the person you were yesterday. I can’t say I agree, but it is interesting to think about. I might be misremembering my one class on world philosophy, so please don’t be offended if I don’t have that quite right. It also reminds me of the high storms. For a previous chapter, there was a discussion about whether they continue to circle the planet, or did they die out and get rekindled.
Learning about Arclo and the nature of Dysians was really interesting. I recently read “Fire Upon the Deep” by Vernor Vinge. In that book, there is a race with a hive mind called Tines. For them, if enough of their members die, they cannot think and they basically stop being a person. Also, if they add new members, their personality changes. I wonder if it is like that for the Dysians. When they breed new cremlings, does it change their personalities or the way they think? Do they live so long because each part them can be replaced with a whole new member? If you tried to kill one, how many of their cremlings would you have to kill before it even slowed them down. Also, how far apart can the cremlings get and still communicate with the others? Like, if the sent an eyeball cremling to another city, would be get real-time sight from it, or would it have to save the memory of what it sees and then return to the rest of the body? I hope we see more of these in the future. I was too busy trying to understand them to be too creeped out.
The difference between queens and workers among ants and bees is how they are fed. The cremlings might be similar.
Can Aimians split into several children?
Many insects (e.g. silkworms) spin cocoons when they metamorphose. The bodies might just be fresh meat for new hordelings.
The Buddhist idea of rebirth is one candle lighting another. They say that the self as a coherent entity is an illusion. You aren’t really the same as an adult you were as a child.
Our bodies don’t really stay the same, either. We constantly “breed” new cells to replace old ones that die. The cremlings aren’t really that different.
@27 Sounds to me like you are talking about The Ship Of Theseus
Another good one. Thanks
@22: *rereads “Allomancer Jak and the Pits of Eltania”* Yes, he does claim to have licked tin off a cave wall, though its efficancy is doubted. I’d forgotten about that, and I don’t follow the rumored/known worldhopper scene much. Thanks for inspiring me to reread that feast of hilarity.
@25 I think it took Kaladin awhile to notice he was using stormlight and was just confused about having dun spheres all the time. All she’d know is her spheres were going out and she needed to bring more in to have enough light between storms.
@24: That would explain the convenient exposition-y speech that Lift overhears. The current crop of Skybreakers is new, so Nale has to explain Skybreaking 101 to them.
As regards the money laundering scheme, here’s a way that it could work (assuming that she is, in fact, laundering money because I’m not sure we ever get a concrete answer from her about whether she is or not.)
Step 1: Someone gets some illegal money. For whatever reason, they can’t spend it without tipping off the police (especially in a city as lawful as this place).
Step 2: Give the money as an “Anonymous Donation” to the Stump’s Orphanage.
Step 3: The Stump waits a period of time to disguise the connection and for the spheres to go dun.
Step 4: The Stump takes the now dun spheres to a money changer that the original thief has specified. The Stump uses the dun spheres to buy infused ones at a huge loss. It’s been said in the books that money changers don’t like to take dun spheres because they might be counterfeit and so, while they’re technically worth the same, the merchants will often try to haggle you down and so most people doing the trade end up with a lesser value of infused spheres than the ones they started out with. So, Stump just has to claim that she’s really bad at haggling.
Step 5: Now, the original thief can go to the money changer and get an “interest free loan” or maybe they own part of the money changer’s shop or whatever, but the point is that the money now has a paper trail and is “legal” so the original thief can actually spend it.
@33: I like it. Stump gets the use of the light and a small profit, which benefits the orphanage. Darkness gets an excuse to try to kill Stump because it is technically illegal. It fits. I think the weak point is how the clean spheres get back to the original thief, but the framework is there.
So if Lift gets her “stormlight” from food, how does she figure out that the Stump is getting hers from infused gemstones? I can’t remember – does Wyndle tell her how stormlight works for other Radiants, either in Edgedancer or her WoR Interlude?
My theory is that Dysian Aimians are made of Cremlings with tiny gemhearts that can hold spren to specialize, like tiny Listeners.
Ooohhh… I like that theory! Makes a lot of sense!
lightbringer@36: “… Dysian Aimians are made of Cremlings with tiny gemhearts that can hold spren to specialize, like tiny Listeners.” Actually that would be like Greatshells, right? Rosharian Greatshells like the Chasmfiends have gemhearts. This would make Aimians a sort of colonial Greatshell, which would actually be really cool. It would also seem to mean that those things Aimians are made of are not actually cremlings, they just look like them.
I always imagined the cremlings as something akin to hermit crabs. The way things are described on Roshar as always having shells or carapace is probably why. So little skittering creatures, the name “cremlings”, just makes me think of little crabs with bone/shell carapaces.