There were a lot of blasts from the past making their appearances tonight and not just at the Tower of Joy.
Like that wily Three-Eyed Raven, this episode was quite the tease, but, oh, how this raises some fun questions.
Major episode spoilers ahead.
Spoilers for the currently published George R. R. Martin novels are discussed in the review and fair game in the comments. We highly suggest not discussing early preview chapters, but if you must, white it out. Have courtesy for the patient among us who are waiting and waiting (and waiting) for The Winds of Winter. Play nice. Thanks.
The first question I have: which of the Seven is watching over Ramsay Bolton, rewarding his every screw-up by dropping a new tactical advantage in his lap?
I hate this guy, and not just because he feeds babies to dogs (I mean, that’s a good reason, too)—he’s the luckiest fucker in Westeros. Him. Everyone else gets raped, slaughtered, exiled, enslaved, but this smirking asshole gets to be Warden of the North. Because Game of Thrones rewards jerks just to remind the audience that Westeros is a Tough Place. Or to make the audience scream in frustration. I can’t decide. But I’m impatient for Ramsay to get his because it’s tedious waiting for his inevitable demise.
Rickon (and Osha) were a well-kept secret. Except for Maisie Williams apparently spilling those beans in an interview I was lucky enough to miss. We knew Bran was returning, we knew in our heart of hearts that Jon Snow wasn’t dead, but did anyone guess Rickon was returning to the great game this season?
Will Ramsay’s demise come at the hand of a Stark, after all? This was a lot sooner than I was expecting to see Rickon. I wasn’t really expecting to ever see Rickon until the very end of the series, truth be told. So will Rickon be snipped like a loose thread or will he really become a player? Who will find him first? Sansa or Jon? Please, please let some Starks reunite.
Perhaps Grey Worm and Missandei can make small talk about this speculation? When they’re not working out how to hold off the leaders of the very pissed off cities of Yunkai, Astapor, and Volantis. Good thing Varys is there to help them and Tyrion handle their growing mess. Nothing you can’t do with some sarcasm and little birds.
Of course, it would probably be more helpful if Dany was back in Meereen and not awaiting a possible execution in Vaes Dothrak for not going into a forced early retirement after Khal Drogo’s death. Who says a woman can’t conquer the world without a khal at her side? Yeah, I think it’s pretty clear that Dany will teach these bitter widows some feminism. But what will she learn in turn from them? Surely it’s more than that she was naive in her young love. Dany’s said it before; she’s different because her dreams come true.
Will Varys find his aviary lacking, now that some of those little birds are bought by Qyburn? I’m glad absolutely nothing untoward happened with Qyburn and the little urchins. I’m so traumatized by this show, I expected those plums to be poisoned.
Blah, blah Cersei and Jaime posturing in King’s Landing. I’m just bored by this story. It’s like Dorne infected the South or something. The Lannisters are doing a lot of talking. Tonight, only Tommen was interesting, with his plea to the High Sparrow getting turned around on him. Does the Faith Militant have their ultimate ally in the boy king now? Tommen certainly seemed accepting of the gods’ council.
That probably won’t end well for anyone not on the side of Cersei, and by extension, the Mountain. Do we have to call him Ser Strong now? Everyone knows he’s Gregor Clegane. Why keep up the “disguise?”
And how shall Jon Snow be known, now that he has abandoned the Night’s Watch? Will he openly travel as Jon Snow? It’s not quite as catchy as The Prince Who Was Promised, but either name will likely be dangerous for the newly revived half-Stark.
Meanwhile, in Braavos, Arya Stark is dead.
Final thoughts:
- RIP misguided but difficult-to-hate Alliser Thorne and Lil’
StabbyOlly. - RIP Shaggydog! That doesn’t bode well for Rickon, does it?
- RIP Ser Arthur Dayne, dead at the hands of Howland Reed fighting a little dirty so Ned could give the killing blow. You can see why honorable Eddard would edit that history just a bit. Interesting though. Could it hint at other secrets Edd is keeping? (This is obvious to pretty much everyone but the Stark kids.) Bran must learn everything but not before episode 5, at least.
- STFU Maester Pycelle! I think it’d be in your best interest to never speak where Cersei and her protector can hear you.
- All hail Lord Commander Tollet! Countdown to an unfortunate natural disaster to poop all over Edd’s reign in 3…2…1… Poor Edd.
- Of course Sam gets seasick. He gets every dweeb trope. You know, I’m reminded of a different fat, awkward Sam who eventually got braver on his quest to help his best bud. It’s time for this Sam to step up and not be such a simpering dork.
- I misheard Grey Worm’s favorite topic as “Patrón.” That would be a very different Grey Worm, indeed. One more fun for Tyrion.
- Melisandre looked as shocked to see Jon Snow alive as Davos did. Notice her hair remained red, not gray. She still has enough power (or her jewel does) after the spell to maintain her glamour.
- Next week: Littlefinger! Sweetrobin! Theon has teleported to Pyke somehow, bypassing all Northern strife.
Game of Thrones airs Sunday nights at 9PM E/PT on HBO.
Theresa DeLucci is a regular contributor to Tor.com covering TV, book reviews, and sometimes games. She’s also gotten enthusiastic about television for Boing Boing. Send her a raven through Twitter.
I’m holding out hope that the Umbers are doing something sneaky (and that was maybe not a Shaggydog head), but not much. Nothing goes wrong for the bad guys on GOT unless it’s in such a way that it somehow makes things worse for the more likable characters.
Also, did that wolf head look terrible to anyone else? Not because we love dire wolves, but on a technical level. It was distractingly bad.
I’m still expecting the Dorne plums to be drugged. And Ser Allister Thorne was hateable, but at least he had convictions. I respect that.
As for Shaggydog’s death, a friend suggested that once a Stark’s wolf is killed, there’s not much hope for the Stark…
First, yeah, i agree, that Shaggydog head looked super fake and kinda small. But Lady was killed in season 1, episode 2 or so, and Sansa’s still going strong. Sure, a victim of circumstance, but she’s grown to have a real fighting chance.
Still wouldn’t put it past Ramsay to mess up having another Stark hostage though. I do wish the Umbers are playing at something (maybe with the Manderlys!) but, again, it’s Game of Thrones, so it could just be that bad, traitorous stuff is going on. Could you really blame the Stark bannermen for turning though? The Starks have been out of power for quite a long time. The smaller houses need to be propped up by the larger ones or else they’ll fail, too.
I was surprised that they only had two Kingsguard at the Tower of Joy scene. I mean, there were three swords, why not spring for one more guy to wield the extra one? They were also careful only to name drop Arthur Dayne, so is he going to have any further importance to the story?
ASoIaF fans have long thought there might be a role for Dawn in the coming war.
@2 lordmagnusen
I don’t think the dead direworlf = doomed Stark is necessarily true. Sansa’s was the first to die and things are looking up for her for the first time in several books.
Yeah, you guys are right on Sansa’s wolf.
Yeah, but with Sansa’s wolf, Ned killed her to prevent a cruel death from the Lannisters. So bad things still happen to Sansa, but not as bad as it could be?
And Arya is off doing other things, away from the main action of war in the seven kingdoms, and so is her wolf….
So maybe the fate of the direwolves and their Starks are still linked.
Why did they drop the Robert Strong ruse so easily, with everyone calling him Gregor now? That seemed odd, as wouldn’t people question how he is back from the dead?
Did Jon forget the Night King is still coming with thousands and thousands of zombies and blue-eyed Walkers? Still thinking he and the Night King have a final confrontation at some point.
@3 I would love to see them incorporate the Manderly gambit into this story (along with the Umbers), if we get to see Frey’s “served” for dinner too. Would be nice to see the North take care of the Bolton’s. Maybe Rickon and Osha are in on the plan as well?
HTF does Theon get to Pyke so fast? You have to be kidding me.
Meereen/Dothraki storyline is losing me, do something!!!!!
LF has maybe the largest standing army left in the Vale? What is his plan? Does he side with Ramsey, Cersei, Sansa? Can anyone trust that bastard?
I like the Arya story and hope they have a kickass role for her to play in the overall plot.
It was great fun to see the Tower of Joy scene but in my mind I thought it would be 6 knights against 3 kingsguard, all in GRRM-based plate armor with cool house markings. This looked like two hedge knights and a few Dorne guardsmen against the Sword of the Morning and another dude. Weird choice IMO, when that could have been a much much cooler scene.
Yeah, one of the guys with Ned looked like he was from Dorne in his clothing. But keep in mind that the show has people with a bit more down to Earth attires and grooming than the books.
Robb was killed at the same time as Grey Wind so I’m guessing Summer was just a budget issue. the CGI for Ghost is probably expensive in addition to actually not always being great, so I can see the writers just killing him to save a buck. That doesn’t excuse the prop head though. If you are going to do an off-screen death, at least give us a head that doesn’t look like a stuffed Halloween mask.
As to Theon’s travel time, everyone is Westros travels as fast as the plot demands. Clearly the plot didn’t demand Osha and Rickon reach Sagos/Greywater Watch so they were just standing around until their capture. The plot probably requires Theon to be in Pike for the Kingsmoot for reasons, so he’ll be there in time. (On an unrealistically optimistic note, what if Theon secures some sort of Asha/Yara related support for Sansa. The kind that he failed to get for Robb?)
Finally, the Tower of Joy battle looked like something some cosplayers might put on. Not to knock cosplayers, but I was expecting something more dramatic. The line delivery was a bit ehh. And didn’t Howland fight with a net? It would be nice to see some variety with weapons, if only to make him stand out. I lost track of which sword guy was Howland until he was the only not-Ned survivor.
Edit: I did enjoy the episode (even if it could use more Sansa) I’m just nitpicking at this point.
@11 the one thing I never understood about Ser Alliser was why he opened the gate in the first place? If Jon was betraying the Watch leave him to freeze to death on the north side and keep the Wildlings out? How does it help to let them in and then go Ides of March?
Are the White Walkers going to need to destroy the Wall in order to pass some magical barrier to the South? Still not sure what their end game is, but hoping we see the 3 headed dragons taking them on in a final battle once Westeros is conquered.
@7 Daved Reemar
The show has never been good about using subtlety or maintaining secrets. They’re probably just trying to simplify things with how many settings and characters are in play.
@10 AyeJaySedai
I agree, the tower scene could have been much better if they had played it closer to the books, with the full dialogue, costuming, and participants. I also would have liked to see Dawn represented as something more than longsword with an enameled sun on the pommel.
re: How does Theon get to Pyke so fast: I think it is partly “travel as fast as the plot demands” but also because we aren’t necessarily seeing things in “real time”. The show runners are splicing bits together as needed with so many threads, and I tend to assume they’re doing a bit of the same as the books–that is, focusing on certain areas/plots at a time then kind of backtracking when it becomes relevant. I don’t typically assume things are happening in exactly this order with exactly the same time in between each scene. In the books Balon died a long time ago, and in the show he just now bit the dust. The Kingsmoot could have been declared “months ago” by the time Theon actually escaped with Sansa, since the two plots are completely disparate (I don’t recall anyone in Theon’s arc mentioning Balon’s death to cement a common time thread).
I hope this is not the end of the story for Rickon, but I do not see a rationale for why Ramsey would want the male Stark heir alive. Sansa could be dangerous to him, but still useful to hold the loyalty of the more loyal Northmen through their marriage. Rickon is just someone the North could rally around. I was surprised that he and Osha were not sent to the kennels without ceremony.
@15 totally agree, which is why I’m holding out hope that the Umber’s, Manderly’s, and Rickon/Osha have a plan! If not then Ramsey would kill him outright since Rickon was already thought to be killed by Theon anyway.
BTW, since Jaime never went north to end the siege at River’s Run, are the Riverlands still at war with the Lannisters? I could use an update on where we stand with the remainder of Stannis’ forces (Storm’s End, Dragonstone), the Blackfish’s forces, Highgarden, and the Vale. And the Crownlands (is Harrenhall still occupied by psychos)?
That entire War seemed to just vanish when we went to Dorne and Cersei was locked up, or I’m just forgetting.
Any ideas how Bran will fit in to this end game? Does he take on the Walkers himself, stay neutral, or help his siblings eventually?
More flashbacks please!
I, also, heard “Patrón”. And perked up my ears.
I stopped caring about travel speed a long time ago, so that doesn’t bother me in the slightest. What bothers me is plot structure and character motivation. But even then, if the show remains entertaining I tend to ignore the flaws.
This week’s episode didn’t move me as much as the previous two.
The Tower of Joy was a massive tease, but we’ll probably get back in there eventually. I only wish something happened to show us why Bloodraven is right to “pull out” right before the big climax. Based on the season trailers, I suspect they’ll do that when Bran has the vision with the Night’s King. Hopefully it happens soon.
Arya’s blind training was awfully fast. But it was pretty fast in the books too, so no big deal. It just felt like an abridged version of an already abridged story. At least she can move on.
The reaction to Jon’s return was, once again, underwhelming. Maybe the problem is that there’s no emotional investment for most of these characters surrounding him. Only Edd was truly happy to see his friend again, and that hug was nice. Tormund’s relationship with Jon in the show isn’t as familiar as the book version, so even that pecker joke felt off to me. At least they got a good laugh from it.
Ser Alliser Thorne went out with a nice line. “I fought. I lost. Now I rest.” And he was right about Jon’s situation: there’ll be no rest for him.
“I’m glad absolutely nothing untoward happened with Qyburn and the little urchins. I’m so traumatized by this show, I expected those plums to be poisoned.”
You underestimate Qyburn’s brilliance – much like the Maesters who kicked him out. The candy isn’t poisoned; its addictive and the children have to come back or they’ll die. Bonus is that you don’t have to pay them as much – or at all.
I don’t think Ned would have lied about that fight. It’s totally against character for him, at least from the books. To me it was D&D saying “ooh it would be cool to show story vs fact”, without them thinking of repercussions. Now, Jon Snow was completely against character for Ned as well, but that only made it obvious that something was up with that character from the beginning.
On the “probably not likely but I’d love it” is if Ramsey turned out the be the hero Melissandra foresaw. She only saw snow, correct? Now that would set the hero trope on its head.
This season only shows what a great crafter of story GRRM is, because there has been almost zero tension and emotionalism in these two episodes. They just kind of do “and then this happened, then this, and ooh this is cool, then here’s this you’ve been waiting for” and it’s just falling flat for me. I can’t wait for the books…
@20 – Kate: I don’t think Ned has lied about tht fight, as a matter of fact, I don’t even think it was him who told his kids about that battle, but one of his house knights or something. Ned didn’t seem to be the kind of man to brag about his battles, or even talk about the war at all.
Maybe things will turn out different in the next episodes, but so far in these 3 episodes what I’ve learned of D&D Westeros is that the marriage Sansa endured in Season 5 was meaningless.
I mean, Ramsay can kill his father, Roose, his stepmother and his half-brother without any repercussions. More than that, the other Northern lords liked what he did. So, when one of them gets a Stark kid and his direwolf, does he try to rebel? No, he kills the direwolf and delivers Rickon to Ramsay.
The moral of the story? The North doesn’t remembers. The North doesn’t care about Starks. Probably, in D&D’s world, Ramsay’s marriage to Samsa actually made some Northern lords dislike him more (Fuck the Starks, seems to be the motto of most of the houses). That marriage doesn’t have any logic even in D&D’s world anymore.
@22, the marriage isn’t even legal. Sansa was already married.
Well, a spoiler for the upcoming big battle did leak a while back. I’ll write it in white so you can avoid it:
Ramsay hangs two ‘named characters’ upside-down before the ‘Battle if the Bastards’ / ‘Battle of Six Armies’ and burns them. This is almost certainly Rickon and Osha. Also the Umber banners are on the same side of Bolton and Karstark in the battle, so it looks like the Umbers really have just gone over. No tricky games on the part of the Umbers. More’s the pity. I was hoping for something a bit more clever. It’s also really, really out of character for the Umbers. Not very well thought through it seems.
Highlight to read.
C.
I discovered I am much more upset about the killing of Shaggydog (and yes, the head looked awful) than most of the previous humans’ deaths in the show or Rickon’s capture. But if what CPJ wrote is true, then … darn. Not nice at all. And the Umbers did seem so loyal in the books (if my memory does not fail me).
25. CPJ
I would be kind of disappointed if that turned out to be true. Do the writers have a child burning fetish that we should have been warned about? It will have been the fourth child that they’ve burned to death.
26. Celebrinnen
Sort of agreed, but not really for emotional reasons. What is even the point of Direwolves if they just get killed left and right? Lady, Grey Wind, and now Shaggy all got killed without putting up any (on screen) fight. Ghost is kept locked up whenever he’d be useful. Nymeria’s giant wolf pack plot is non-existent. Have we seen Summer yet?
I think the show is basically making Ramsay the new ‘love to hate’ villain. Now that Joffrey (and to a lesser extent, Tywin) is gone, I think the show is using Ramsay to fill that role. Especially becuase I get the impression that we’re supposed to be rooting for Cersei/Jaime now (or at least not hating on them). Whether or not the show NEEDS this is up for debate (they definitely seem to be going more the shock/sensationalism than having characters make intelligent decision or touching on the deeper themes, but I can’t deny there’s a certain kind of lowest common denominator type of entertainment value to it). But actually, as soon as they dragged the two in I had a feeling that was who it was – I thought MAYBE it was Theon, but when it was two, I pretty much called it. I’m just glad Natalia Tena is back in it! But, RIP Shaggydog :(
But I totally agree with you that this definitely seems to undercut the idea that the North Remembers. Have we had any indication before that the Umbers were not loyal or had dissident members? Surely there could be opportunists in any family, but I AM holding out hope this is part of a Manderly style intrigue and long game and that we’re not just in for Round 3 of The Boltons Torture a Stark.
OMG Qyburn, get away from those kids!! That was probably the freakiest thing about that episode and I also was super worried there was going to be some indication that he was torturing or otherwise abusing/experimenting on the kids. And I was definitely worried the plums were poisoned (or they were from Dorne and intended for somebody else, perhaps) but I also was telling myself that Qyburn isn’t needlessly cruel; he’s smart and KNOWS these kids are a good resource so he’s probably not going to poison them for the evulz. Especially after he’s apparently gone through the trouble to make an abusive dad dissapear (yeah! It would be kind of ironic if he had Ser Gregor doing his dirty work for him and protecting children. Maybe Qyburn could reprogram him ;) ) I like the idea that they’re addictive (well, I don’t LIKE it, but you know what I mean!) though!
The Tommen/High Sparrow scene. First of all, I REALLY like the actor. I get a Pope Francis/Bernie Sanders vibe from the High Sparrow (both men I respect; that’s not meant to be an insult) and so I WANT him to be genuine/honest…but he’s probably not, haha. But I’d kind of laugh if Tommen ends up undergoing a genuine conversion (not just being manipulated/used) and then becomes a good and just king. But this is Game of Thrones, so he’s probably just going to be killed. And I also lean towards the theory that the Iron Throne will be empty by the end, anyway.
The Tower of Joy scene, meh. I knew they were going to end it before you saw what Lyanna was doing up there but I found it really unsatisfying and a bit of a tease. I guess I was hoping for something NEW or confirmation of the theories than just an old flashback of stuff we already knew (as book readers).
I think Dany’s arc is interesting, actually. I LOLd at her teaching the widows some feminism.
I hope Varys really did help that woman and her son get away and didn’t just dissapear them as well. I think exploring the idea that Dany is basically imposing a foreign culture on them and they resent that – even if she’s trying to liberate them – is an interesting one.
No real thoughts on Arya. I suppose it’s ironic that Arya’s main motivation to stay with them is to gain the skills for her revenge, but in order to get those skills she has to abandon herself. So I wonder, in the end, if she truly does succeed at becoming No One (and I think the WoW excerpt shows that isn’t really the case) what her goal will be.
As for Jon, I don’t blame him for peacing out, but I felt kind of bad in a way that he hung them. I guess I’m a bit of a softie. You can’t have traitors in the ranks, but since he’s leaving at that point, it seems irrelevant to kill them. Olly especially is still young and misguided. I don’t know…I’m not super pro death penalty in the first place. (Although I agree that the reasons for the coup were way more nonsensical in the show than the book, where they actually do have a lot more reason to rise against him).
Presumably they need to keep Ramsey the Bastard around as Chief Bastard until they’ve had a proper chance to introduce Euron as Most Bastardly Bastard in All of Westeros.
Also, at the end of Arya’s scene I was half expecting some text to pop up “Faceless Man Assassin training. Level 1 COMPLETE!”
Oh, and the Sam/Gilly scene was sweet and I hope for once nothing bad happens to this baby. :(
@29 Lisa Marie, it’s worse than that. D&D must have a crush on Iwan Rheon, because honestly everything that’s happened in the North has been in service to HIS character, no one else’s. This article makes a very convincing case for that.
It took me awhile to read it but…yeah.
I find the entire direwoves/warging angle is being severely underplayed in the series.
The books implied that warging into Ghost might be a factor in Jon’s eventual return, and that Arya beat her blindness training by warging into cats. Not to mention Rickon’s increasing wildness as he bonds with Shaggydog.
Going a little meta, Bran’s lesson of the past illustrating the difference between the events as witnessed and the stories told about them provides a valuable perspective on the differences between the show and the books, much as different authors treat Arthurian legend – they share the same characters and settings, but interpretations of characters and events can be very different.
@33, I know they have an incredible series on the disaster that was season five, but ALL THE GIFs make my computers lag.
Despite it running contrary to the style of GoT, I’m holding out hope that Lord Umber, Rickon, and Osha are part of a secret assassination plot. Is that ShaggyDog or just another direwolf? Why is Osha playing shy? Umber switching sides to ally with Bolton? Seems super unlikely.
My (almost certainly too optimistic prediction): Osha and Rickon have spent the last few seasons training diligently to get one job done: vengeance. Umber is their patron and Umber forces will switch sides at the last minute during the big battle.
It would be a nice symmetry with what happened with Stannis. Though, again, I’m pretty sure this is just the dying spasms of my hope talking.
@36 that is my hope too, but also that they tie in with the Manderly storyline, perhaps the remaining loyal houses of the North, rise up with Rickon. That would be cool.