We admit we were a bit annoyed that the awesome Arthur Dayne needed two swords in the Tower of Joy flashback that aired in Season 6 Episode 3 of HBO’s Game of Thrones. Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning, does not need TWO swords. He is perfect with just his one amazing sword (Jaime would totally agree with us). We know we are not alone in our rage over this admittedly very trivial matter.
The early success of HBO’s Game of Thrones was driven in part by the excited book fans (like us!) that stood in line at the early marketing efforts (remember the Westeros-themed food trucks?). These fans also told all their coworkers to watch this new fantasy show based on these awesome books they had read. Book fans form the backbone of this fandom, but sometimes book fans go bad. Book fans are often (and probably correctly) characterized as overly critical, never happy, and obsessed with inconsequential details (see above re: Arthur Dayne’s ONE sword), and they drive their show-watching friends a little mad. As overly critical fans ourselves, we present to you a list of 10 of the dumbest and most irrational nitpicks we admit to having.
BEWARE SPOILERS including the most recent episode of Game of Thrones Season 6, “Book of the Stranger”.
Nerd Rage: Peaches Are Not In Season
Description of Show Scene: In A Clash of Kings, Renly offers a peach to his brother, Stannis, during their parley before a certain shadow takes its revenge on the former. The show, however, chose to skip that poignant aspect to the scene. To attempt to appease our need for Renly holding a piece of fruit, David and Dan did treat us to a scene in “Garden of Bones” in Season 2, where Renly and Littlefinger discuss a possible alliance while he stares rather intently at…wait for it…an apple.
Why It Irrationally Bothers Us: Okay, so the scene with Renly’s peach in the books is obviously about way more than the peach itself. The peach is not the point, it’s the message behind the peach. Renly is basically trying to get Stannis to stop and smell the roses (blue ones hopefully!). So while we understand that the type of fruit in the scene itself is mostly irrelevant, the fact that the show decided to include a scene with Renly holding a piece of fruit, seemingly as a nod to the book scene, it kind of felt a bit trollish to make it an apple instead of a peach. Were peaches not in season when they filmed this scene? Were they spending too much on dragon CGI scenes that importing a peach was not in the budget? Could they not just have a fake peach? It’s not like he had to take a bite of it or anything. We will probably never know the real reason, but we will forever mourn the absence of Renly’s peach.
Nerd Rage: Lack of Blue Hair Blues
Description of Show Scene: Daario Naharis is played by two different actors in the show and sadly, neither of them have his iconic blue locks. First we had Ed Skrein, appearing in “Second Sons” in Season 3, who looked kind of like a Costco Eomer with a wig he bought at a gift shop in Rohan. Now we have Michiel Huisman, first appearing in “Two Swords” in Season 4, who, while gorgeous, does kind of just look a bit like everyone else on the show.
Why It Irrationally Bothers Us: Obviously, this is a mostly ridiculous complaint, but that is what we are here for. Critics of the blue hair often say it would look absurd on screen, that it would not work, but why not? This is a fantasy show after all and something we miss in general in this world as it appears on screen is a little bit of color every now and then. What better way to start than with some ludicrous blue hair, a gold mustache and a three pronged beard. The blue hair also represents his culture, as the Tyroshi are known for dyeing their hair all sorts of colors. We are certain that there is a way they could have made this work even within the gritty aesthetic they have adopted for the show.
Nerd Rage: His Name Is… Hey Jojen, A Little Help Here?
Description of Show Scene: In A Game of Thrones, Bran struggles to name his direwolf pup before his fall from the tower. It is through him that we find out the names of the other five direwolves as he laments that he cannot find the right one for his. When he wakes up from his coma though, his first words out of his mouth, as he looks at his wolf are, “his name is Summer.” In the show, Bran’s direwolf is nameless for two full seasons before Jojen Reed randomly pulls his name out of a dream in “Dark Wings, Dark Words” in Season 3.
Why It Irrationally Bothers Us: So, the Reeds magically appear out of nowhere in the middle of the woods, approaching Bran and company on their way north to the Wall and practically the first words out of Jojen’s mouth as the wolf growls at him are, “you must be Summer.” Now, it does not bother us that Jojen happens to know the name of the wolf. He has green dreams after all, so it is entirely plausible. The fact that this is the first mention of his name, though, and that it is almost like he’s telling Bran just feels strange. The name Summer feels like something of a symbol of hope for Bran—whose House words are famously “winter is coming”—and so it seems wrong that he was not the first one to name the wolf on screen. That said, at least Summer finally had a name—and this a full two seasons before Daenerys’ dragons FINALLY got names on screen. Do not even get us started on that one…
Nerd Rage: “Your Sister”
Description of Show Scene: In A Storm of Swords, Littlefinger proclaims his undying love for her older sister, Catelyn Stark, as he pushes Lysa Arryn out the moon door with the iconic line, “Only Cat.” In “Mockingbird” in Season 3, the scene is much the same, except for the altering of those two little words, replaced with “Your sister” instead.
Why It Irrationally Bothers Us: Not all lines are going to be kept intact and that is understandable. We can forgive things like the lack of “Edd, fetch me a block” because Olly was his steward at the time (what a mistake that was) and they were streamlining the scene and needed to make it clear that he was going to do the beheading himself. Sure. Fine. Swapping “Only Cat” out for “Your sister” just kind of feels like they did it on purpose, though. It literally makes no difference to the scene, but “Only Cat” just has a better ring to it.
Nerd Rage: Blue Roses = Desert Roses instead of Winter Roses
Description of Show Scene: In “Two Swords,” the first episode of Season 4, Daario gives Dany a bouquet of flowers in an attempt to win her favor. The bouquet includes blue roses, which Daario describes as being desert roses. Wrong! Blue roses are winter roses and from the North!
Why It Irrationally Bothers Us: Because blue roses should be associated with Lyanna Stark (and by extension, Jon Snow)! Not Daario and Essos! Does Essos even have winter? GRRM repeatedly uses blue roses when discussing Northern women, in particular Lyanna Stark and the Stark maiden taken by Bael the Bard. The rose also appears in one of Dany’s House of the Undying visions (a blue rose growing out of a wall of ice, which many assume to be Jon). These clues are meant to help the reader piece together R+L=J. But now the show can’t use this item as a clue! It does not actually affect the story in any way, but the rose imagery was a nice detail that we miss.
Nerd Rage: Baby Sam
Description of Show Scene: After many name suggestions from Samwell Tarly, sitting around a fire, trying to get warm, Gilly eventually settles on the name Sam, when questioned by Maester Aemon in “Mhysa” at the end of Season 3, perhaps unable to remember any of the other boys names after the trauma of being attacked by a White Walker.
Why It Irrationally Bothers Us: In the books, the Free Folk do not name their children until they reach their second year. Due to harsh conditions and a high mortality rate for infants, it is considered a bad omen. It is an important part of their culture that is overlooked in the show in favor of allowing Gilly to give Sam a little thrill by naming her son after him. Like our other nitpicks, this change doesn’t matter for the overall plot, but it’s just another aspect of Free Folk culture that the show has ignored. (Also, in the books, Gilly and Sam choose Aemon as the name for the child in their care…which isn’t Gilly’s baby, but that’s for another article).
Nerd Rage: There are too many eyes on this show
Description of the Show Scene: Both Bloodraven and Euron Greyjoy have sets of two healthy eyes on the show.
Why It Irrationally Bothers Us: There’s an old rhyme in Westeros about Bloodraven called “A Thousand Eyes and One”. Originally it described Bloodraven’s immense spy network but during the events of A Dance With Dragons, it becomes ironic since as the Bloodraven now only has one eye—the other socket has a root growing through it. In fact, we’re pretty annoyed by the fact that Bloodraven doesn’t look like a creepy skeleton man with roots growing through him in the show but it is probably more irrational that the number of eyes he’s sporting bothers us more.
The same can be said of Euron Greyjoy. In the books he is the creepiest of the Greyjoys obsessed with the sorcery of the far lands he has sailed to for knowledge and fortune. Funnily enough he’s also referred to as the Crow’s Eye (while Bloodraven is often referred to as Three-Eyed Raven which also no longer makes sense because he’d have to be the four-eyed Raven!) and he sports an extremely piratical eyepatch and blue lips dyed from drinking Shade of the Evening, a wine favored by the warlocks of Qarth (they had blue lips in the show! Remember Pyat Pree? Why is this too weird for Euron?!) His dualistic nature is physically reflected by his scary eye and his normal, blue eye that sailors refer to as the Smiling Eye. We’re not sure why the show decided to tone down Euron’s look, perhaps for simplicity’s sake, but we think he was far scarier sporting the physical manifestations of his magical experimentation.
Nerdrage: The Thenns are not scary cannibals
Description of the Show Scene: The Freefolk / Wildling tribe called the Thenn are mentioned in Season 3 but we don’t get a good look at them until Season 4 with the introduction of Styr the Magnar of Thenn and his raiding party. They are self-described as cannibals and they are also shown to shave their heads and practice ritualistic scarification. They are one of the major Free Folk groups opposed to any truce with the Night’s Watch and seem to function in the show as beserker fighters. Styr is eventually killed by Jon Snow at the Battle of Castle Black.
Why it Irrationally Bothers Us: The book versions of the Thenns are about as opposite their show counterparts as they could possibly be. The Thenns are known as the most lawful of the Freefolk tribes. They have their own lords and laws and therefore have the most in common with the Lords of Westeros. Like the Thenns in the show, they speak the Old Tongue. Also like the show Thenns, they are incredible fighters led by a leader they call the Magnar named Styr. When he is defeated at the Battle of Castle Black his son takes on the mantle of Magnar. While many Wildlings return to their lands North of the Wall (certain death), many stay with the rest of the population in the Gift ruled by one of their own.
It is through a generous interpretation of the Thenn’s own laws that the Thenns are raised to House status and Jon Snow arranges a marriage between the new Magnar and Alys Karstark to cement the alliance approved by Stannis and protect Alys from the machinations of her own cousins. They create their own sigil (the Karstark sunburst surrounded by the flames of R’hllor). Due to other politics within House Karstark it is very likely that the Thenns will inherit the Karstark Holds, which adds to the growing tension between some of the Westerosi men of the Night’s Watch and Jon Snow.
Nerd Rage: Skipping a Targaryen Generation
Description of the Show Scene: In “Baelor” in Season 1, Jon Snow is wrestling with the decision of whether or not to flee the Night’s Watch to ride to the aid of Robb in order to free Ned from the clutches of the Lannisters in King’s Landing. He whines to Maester Aemon that “no one understands” and Aemon schools him on what it’s like when your family gets dragged into a war that you cannot take part in, revealing that he is Aemon Targaryen.
Why It Irrationally Bothers Us: During his speech, he says that his father was Maekar I, all well and good, and that his brother Aegon ruled after him, again good, and then his son, Aerys ruled after him. Hold on, wait a minute, what happened to Jaehaerys II? This is a totally trivial point, but it does kind of screw with the timeline a bit, especially when we start hearing maybe Bloodraven (the Three-Eyed Raven) talking about sitting in a tree for a thousand years. Just what is going on with Targaryen history in the show?
Nerdrage: Fire can and does kill a lot of dragons
Description of the Show Scene: Of Daenerys Targaryen’s many titles, one is The Unburnt, which refers to Dany surviving Drogo’s funeral pyre relatively unscathed. Dany believes this confirms she is the true Targaryen heir since her older brother, Viserys, always told her that fire can not harm a true Dragon. Viserys suffocated to death under a molten gold crown proving to Dany that he was not a true dragon. Most recently, Dany used her fire-proof ability to burn all the Khals of the Dothraki in a conflagration from which she emerged, again, unharmed.
Why it irrationally bothers us: Targaryens are famously NOT immune to fire. For example, we know the burning of Summerhall was responsible for the death of Aegon V (known to many readers as Egg from the Dunk and Egg novellas) and his family. Aerion Brightflame actually drank wildfire in an attempt to ascend into some kind of dragon form. It did not go well. Rhaenyra was roasted alive by a Dragon and the aforementioned Viserys was killed by molten gold. Dany herself has suffered burns from Drogon’s fire breath and depending on your theory championing, Jon Snow burned his hand pretty badly while fighting off a Wight. Finally, the destruction of Valyria was due to a volcanic eruption. Not to mention that George R. R. Martin has stated that the funeral pyre incident with Dany was a one-time only deal that many readers theorize had more to do with blood magic and dragon egg hatching than it did with any Targaryen immunity to fire.
In the end this ability of Dany’s may be related to some other kind of magic or prophecy. The prophecy of The Prince that was Promised may have originated in Old Valyria, we know the Targaryens have long studied this prophecy. The fireproofing could be borrowed from the details of this prophecy which states that the Prince would be born of salt and smoke and herald the return of dragons. Targaryens loved to exaggerate about themselves in general so it is not a hard sell that they would ascribe many of the prophecies interpreted details to themselves, especially if they believed the Prince would come from the Targaryen line.
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Why isn’t the Kingsguard wearing white?!?!?!
Honestly, if they kept the blue hair, the actor switch for Daario would have gone down MUCH easier. Next season, “Oh, it’s the blue haired guy… he looks different, I guess they changed his actor, like they did with the Mountain… but at least they’re both still easy to recognize.” Instead, when the new guy first appeared it took a few episodes to figure out who he was supposed to be.
I have to say that the only thing that really bothered me was the radical change to the Thenns: Firstly, why make them the exact opposite of how they are in the books? Secondly, because the whole portrayal of them as EVIL cannibals because they are EVIL and because they like eating human flesh is just trite and cartoonish, not to mention completely insulting to the audience – as if we are not capable of distinguishing nuance but have to have everything made clear to us with the narrative equivalent of a sledgehammer. The Thenns of the show are to my eyes a result of lazy writing and a lack of trust in the audience.
Cannibalism among the Wildlings is only mentioned in passing/rumoured in the books and yet there is a certain grim logic to why people would result to this practice in an extremely hostile environment and under dire circumstances (such as fleeing an army of frozen zombies). After all, cannibalism has happend under similar desperate circumstances in our world (even among “civilized” people).
The rest of the complaint mentioned are, IMO, insignificant and meaningless.
All good points.
My pet peeve is the decision to failure to respect the important role of women in Dorne. When Tyrion went out to meet the Dornish embassy in Season 3, should have been some women heads of houses – but none are shown. And then there is the decision to drop Arianne as the Martell heir. Unique progressive nature of Dorne, dating back to Nymeria the Conqueror, is left by the wayside. The ridiculousness of the Sand Snakes makes it even worse.
The other one is the inconsistency of speed of travel. Took several weeks of episodes to get from Winterfell to KL in season 1 but, based on previews, LF is about to do just about the same trip in reverse in a single week. Plus Tyrion getting to Volantis and thence to Meereen in short order. I understand plot needs, but it takes me out of the story.
I really disliked that they cut out Arianne because Dorne is the only place in Westeros that has absolute primogentiture as well as much more relaxed attitudes to sexual mores, even among nobelwomen, which is an incredibly subversive thing in relation to the patriarchal feudalism that dominates Westeros. When it comes to gender, Dorne is different and I think that is important – especially since I think that the GRRM’s story is partly about the complete collpase of the feudal order, which may give way to a new social order that hopefullyis more benign to those who are not noble and male. Then again the whole thing may end in a zombie apocalypse and an icy wasteland. Who knows but I’m still holding out for something better to rise out of the ashes of the toxic feudal culture of Westeros.
Whether Dorne is important in the final endgame is up for debate but the role of women (and Arianne in particular) is thematically consistent with one of the big narrative threads in the books: How different women, though all noble, maneuver a patriarchal world that is incredibly hostile and brutal to women. It is just one narrative thread but it is an important one. I understand that these books are incredibly difficult to adapt because of the many many plot threads and characters and in this respect some things have to cut. However, it just feels like that they didn’t put much thought or work into Dorne – and thus the result was so very bad.
So I’m still on the blue hair, and by extension, pretty much everyone’s hair in Essos. While @2 also has an excellent practical point, and I agree that, with some screen tests of different shades of dye this detail could have looked, if not normal, at least an interesting and culturally plausible kind of cool, I think the lack of Essosi hairstyles creates a really serious, not-nickpicky problem. To be blunt, it makes Dany’s storyline for several seasons look worryingly like “White Girl Fights Muslims”.
It’s not that GRRM’s original depiction of Essos is entirely immune to charges of Orientalism (I have been known to use Leigh Butler’s , or maybe one of her commenter’s I can’t remember, renaming of Essos as The Orientalist Continent of Orientalism in fan conversation). But it’s less potentially Contemporary In All The Wrong Ways than the show’s. I’d be much more comfortable watching Dany take over neo-Assyrian civilizations still hanging onto Assyrian culture at this point in fictional time, assisted by a bunch of people of many colors including some entertainingly unnatural ones, than watch her more or less take over medieval Muslim castles.
Plus, neo-Assyrians are just way more interesting worldbuilding. Give me some elaborately sculpted male hairstyles!
@2. They actually slapped you in the face to inform you of the actor change the very first episode of that season. Dany shows up to her army in formation and immediately asks where Daario and Grey worm are. Barristan tells her they’re gambling and they cut right to the scene of the two of them playing their “No you will drop your sword first!” game.
@7: but the new actor still looks like 70% of the guys in Westeros. Nothing makes him stand out. At least the blond was somewhat different.
Re: Dorne – they screwed the whole theme of that plotline up. So it’s more than a “nit-pick.” That’s a full on rant. A nit-pick by definition is supposed to be a small petty detail that doesn’t affect the grand plans.
@7: Yes, but that assumes I also remembered their names enough to recognize who “Daario” was. I never read the books, and I spent practically the first year calling people things like “coma boy” and “bald eunich” and “the incest twins”, “ol’ melty-face”, and “the bastard” before some of them started gelling, and that’s still the case for quite a lot of the more minor characters or the ones with more unusual, to me, names (if a John appears I can mentally associate their names with other Johns I know, for example, but with Daario it’s just a bunch of syllables). I’m sure I’m not alone in this.
He’s the Sword of the Morning. Not the Swords of the Morning!
@8 & 9
I know of a few watchers who thought Robb Stark survived and went to Dany somehow.
I’m bothered at every Loras scene. He’s supposed to be the most capable knight in the Seven Kingdoms, not a sniveling wimp.
@12 – that was the next example I was going to raise. Gross to play him as a gay stereotype. Many, if not most, book readers have no idea he was gay at all.
Another one is Jaime killing off his cousin in Season 2. Could be viewed as a nitpick but it is a big deal. Ridiculous development that has severely undercut the proper character development of someone who has been widely misunderstood for doing the right thing with King Aerys and begins publicly doing all of the right things. Unjustified murder of a cousin interrupts the narrative.
A lot of these items bother me too. Yeah, I get that many of them are not essential to the plot (though there have been huge missteps there too), but the details are what make the world believable. There have been good pieces on Tor.com making the point that getting the details of a setting, technology, or society correct can go a long way to build credibility.
That lack of credibility really stands out in the series after accumulating for so long.
@6 mutantalbinocrocodile
I don’t really see any Orientalism at work in Martin’s series. There are a few aspects of culture and character in Essos that could have been more fleshed out, but it doesn’t cross a line.
@@@@@ 12
My nitpick is that one of the only love stories in ASOIAF (Renly and Loras) was put aside, so that Loras could have gay sex with anyone. In the books, Loras makes a vow of chastity (no sex whatsoever) when he joins the Kingsguard because “when the sun is set, no candle can replace it”, which means (to those of us who understood subtext) “I loved Renly and now I can love noone”.
Besides, there’s the lustful gay stereotype.
Some of those have bothered me, but not the blue hair one. Sometimes something that works one way in a descriptive context doesn’t work in a visual one and that’s a great example. TV and other visual media have to deal with instant reactions based on current cultural contexts and a guy with Blue Hair would be discordant for the majority of the viewing audience. People wouldn’t see; ‘Cool, Dangerous Mercenary who catches the eye of the young Queen’ people would see a Silly Man with a Silly Punk Hair colour. You can get away with alot in this show I think, but the show-runners wisely recognized that as a step too far.
@14
“I don’t really see any Orientalism at work in Martin’s series. There are a few aspects of culture and character in Essos that could have been more fleshed out, but it doesn’t cross a line.”
I very much disagree with you here. Martin’s description of Essos are rife with Orientalist stereotypes, which in certain respect is fulled by his delight with the grotesque – unborn puppies on a stick! (That just embodies every single sterotype of foreign people eating so-called “disgusting” things. His depiction of Meereen and the Dothraki is especially problematic because these cultures are almost exclusively presented through a outsider POVs (Dany and the Westerosi) and the inhabitants are described as completely (and repulsively) Other and “exotic” (exoticsm is another Orientalist trope). The Dothraki is presented as a undifferentiated Barbarian horde who revels in plunder, murder and rapine.
I’m adding a quote from https://mediadiversified.org/2015/04/08/fantasys-othering-fetish-part-1/:
“Much later in life, like every other college student in the social sciences, I read Edward Said’s groundbreaking work Orientalism. To condense his multi-layered argument, Said noted that Western art, literature and even academic disciplines were immersed in the colonial act of creating the non-Western world as the exotic “other.” This “other” was often imbued with such descriptors as primitive, static, irrational, superstitious or tyrannical.”
Here’s another blog that engages with the subject: http://peterstanton.blogspot.dk/2015/03/ASOIAF-is-orientalist.html
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Oh, forgot another one – Arya not speaking Braavosi with the Waif as part of her training and, especially, the non-Valyrian “English” language writing on the walls of Meereen.
Dany needs purple eyes. This made the Targaryans unique and magical. That and dragon taming.
I’ll also add another quote to the subject of Orientalism in GRRM’s writing:
“As a one of the most popular fantasy series of recent years, ASoIaF (and GoT) represents a significant reinforcement of the same Orientalist stereotypes that have informed Western vision of the Middle East for centuries. Moreover, by utilising these same set of tropes the works demonstrate that fantasy locations have the power to cement these ideas in the popular imagination. Within Martin’s novels and their television adaptations, the Eastern cultures are generally presented in a negative manner, with aspects of slavery, treachery and cruelty being consistently emphasised. Whilst the western lands are also shown to be violent and home to perfidious individuals, these representations are often mitigated or counter-balanced. At the very least, the West is shown to be more ‘grey’ than the uniformly barbaric East. Despite Martin’s laudable success in breaking many established patterns of story-telling (Walton 2014), in physical and human geography, the series has much in common with previous popular fantasy sagas; themselves based upon customary imaginings of the real world Orient. The excesses of the East in ASoIaF and its use primarily as a backdrop for Western characters to be painted upon accords with previous scholarship on fictional portrayals of the real world Middle East. Additionally, by contrasting the liberal Western behaviour of Daenrys Targaryen against this setting, we are offered a strong example of Said’s contention that our depiction of an Oriental Other is a means of framing our own cultural superiority: even in a world that does not exist. Just as a central concern of ASoIaF is family and bloodline, it is worth noting that the novels themselves are the scions of a long ancestry of Orientalist invention, within and without the boundaries of the fantasy genre.”
It is from an excellent article by Mat Hardy: http://www.academia.edu/12170964/GAME_OF_TROPES_THE_ORIENTALIST_TRADITION_IN_THE_WORKS_OF_G.R.R._MARTIN
(The whole article can be read online)
@21 It’s a tongue-in-cheek article, dude.
I personally am amused that for an article about nitpicking, the author states that Daario’s first appearance in the show was in Season Two, when in fact, “Second Sons” was episode 3.08.
@17 and @20 Trinuviel
Members of most of Martin’s cultures have an internal sense of superiority for their own culture, so I don’t think there’s simple Orientalism on display in the series as a rule. I’ll buy that Dany’s interpretations of, and reactions to, several Essosi societies can be Orientalist, but the criticism doesn’t stick for Martin himself.
When Dany first meets with the leaders of Astapor, they trade insults. It is clear from the beginning that the Masters view their own culture as superior, seeing Dany and her ancestors as barbaric, backward, and possessing strange customs.
Dany’s general failure to understand Essosi cultures repeatedly leads to failure and the need for her to result to force or trickery to get her way. The outcome for her and her allies is usually negative. Dany is the one who is treacherous, who tortures and murders innocent people to sate her anger, and who brings suffering to millions with her actions. When she attempts to rule, she is contemptuous of Meereenese culture and capricious in her application of power.
In Martin’s world, all the cosmopolitan and advanced societies reside on Essos. It’s also the source of the world’s most sought-after goods, and home of most of its architectural wonders (as noted by in-universe travelers). Only one product of Westeros is notable outside of the Seven Kingdoms. In fact, it is Westeros that is backward culturally, technologically, and economically. The one area where Westerosi morals overlap with modern morals, slavery, is an exception rather than a rule.
Great article! I had forgotten Thenns weren’t cannibals in the books; I remembered the law, lordship and Karstark marriage stuff, but somehow remembered them as being cannibals as well, thanks to the show’s influence. One nitpick: “Second Sons”, which introduced Ed Skrein as Daario, was a Season 3 episode, not a Season 2 episode as you wrote here.
Sansa kneeling to Tyrion
Daenerys not using the whip in the Pit.
Yohn Bronze’s casting. (The guy who plays him is great, but Royce’s supposed to be a 10 years older Ned Stark).
Gerold Hightower (The guy looks nothing like Gerold Hightower, so why did they made him Gerold Hightower?).
The star carvings and buzz cut all the Sparrows have.
Making the Cerwyns the Northern House Ramsay wrecks, not the Hornwoods.
Putting all the known Gods in the House of Black and White, instead of only those who represent death (What does a weirwood tree have to do with death?)
No Edmure or Blackfish until Season 3.
No Valonqar.
No elephants in Volantis.
(I might add a few more later).
Just corrected the “Second Sons”/Season 3 discrepancy in the post–thanks!
Great article and comments. I am going to second the comments re Daario’s hair because I feel the lack of a lot of those type of individual characterization details has a cumulative impact. He is just one example, the recently introduced Euron is another, but I could name several more: the missing prominent side-burns of Tywin Lannister, the facial scarring Tyrion and Brienne receive throughout the series, the fact that we are not consistently shown the Onion Knights shortened fingers, the fact that Stannis, Roose, and Kevan all pretty much look alike… I cant imagine how hard it must be for someone who has not read the books to keep track. Daario’s hair could have been a more washed-out silver-blue, his beard could have been just long enough to show the three braids, they could have kept his armor and clothing the same as what they have now, and he would have fit in perfectly while still being a unique presence. I agree with the feedback on Loras, too– turning him into a feminine gay stereotype really missed the opportunity to establish his unique place. I have not read the books in some time– doesn’t Cersei send him off on a mission where he gets badly burned? Or did I imagine that?
Ser Arthur Dayne dual wielding like a frickin jedi ninja was only the tip of the ice burg that was the travesty of the show’s ToJ. The whole tone of the scene was off. The ToJ was supposed to be somber or sad, neither side wanted the fight but were doing what they felt they were honor bound to do. The way medieval cos playing Neil Patrick Harris, I mean young Ned Stark, said the line “No, now it ends” was totally wrong. It should have been sad, as in I really don’t want to do this, not like some dude bro comeback.
Why were there only two Kingsguard instead of three? Could they not afford another actor? And why not make it clear that they were KG? I had a friend at work (show watcher only) ask me who the two guys at the tower were supposed to be. They could’ve have made a big deal of them taking their white cloaks off and setting them down.
And why did they cut out so much of the dialogue from the book? Why didn’t the KG say something to make it clear that they were there because they felt the heir to the throne was inside? That they were honor bound to be there because they were KG.
And lastly, speaking of honor, why shit all over Ned like they did? I don’t know if any of you watched the after the episode segment but the 2 D’s basically said they wanted the flashback to show the difference between the honorable Ned and the true Ned. I have absolutely no idea how the came up with Ned being a bragging, lying, vengeful murderer, did I even read the same books as them?
I know this was more than just a nit pick but oh well.
@29, I think part of that view of Ned comes from whether you view R+L as consensual or not, and whether Ned knew one way or another. Conventional wisdom is that Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna and raped her and that’s why her brother teamed up with her betrothed to go to war to save her. That’s the legend, and though we all know it’s more complicated than that, it still rests with the murder of Ned’s father and brother for demanding Lyanna’s return.
But if Lyanna chose to be with Rhaegar, as the Knight of the Laughing Tree story suggests, well then Ned’s family are the assholes here. Ned looks a lost less honorable if that were the case.
However, I can’t agree that Ned is as bad as you say the scene makes him out to be(I haven’t seen the show yet), so I disagree with the show’s portrayal here.
The friction between Osha and Meera, two great (in-book) characters who have no reason to treat each other as foes.
The Faith depriving imprisoned-Cersei of water when trying to make her “confess.” In the books, they deprived her of sleep (waking her every hour), but never of water or food.
Tormund being considerably more taciturn and less ribald than his book-self.
The desiccated look of the Others.
Drogo’s beard and eyeshadow.
The absence of Patchface, Aeron Greyjoy (unless he’s just appeared), or any Manderlys. I want my ocean-worshippers, damnit!
@31 – The Manderlys are coming! Confirmed in this year as part of Team Ramsey (as mentioned by Ramey in Ep 3). Perhaps he’ll bring some pies with him….
@29 (Hi Billiam!). I had much fewer problems then you did. Yes, they made it a 6 on 2 rather than a 7 on 3 battle – it didn’t bother me much since they didn’t make a big deal of the other KG in any event, so what’s the big deal with not having two anonymous KG with Arthur Dayne. I also didn’t mind the dialogue – they took most of it directly from the book (“I looked for you on the Trident,” etc). Also, they had basically the same KG armor as we’ve seen throughout the show (except for the cool Targ dragons on them) so i thought that was clear enough. Finally, I thought the tone of it was fine, but not perfect.
@@@@@ 30
While I agree that the way the Starks treat Lyanna might be (probably is) problematic, that has nothing to do with the scene as it was presented in the show. As a matter of fact the scene ends before Ned even enters the tower so we don’t even see Lyanna or find out anything more than we already know.
Basically what happens is that Bran realizes that Ser Arthur Dayne is the better swordsman and that there is no way Ned can beat him one on one even though Bran has heard the story “A thousand times” and knows his father does indeed defeat Dayne. Bran even says something like “but this isn’t the way it happened” to which not Bloodraven replies “or is it?”. So then Dayne disarms Ned and is about to kill him when a wounded Howland Reed jumps Arthur from behind and stabs him through the throat with a dagger. A shocked Bran says something like “But he stabbed him from behind”. Then Ned picks up his sword and delivers the killing blow to the already dying Dayne (and it certainly doesn’t look like a mercy killing either).
So then in the inside the episode bit the two D’s basically say they wanted to show the difference between the perception of Ned being honorable and what really happened. Which to them apparently is that Ned was a liar (he defeated Ser Arthur Dayne in single combat) and a braggart (Bran heard the story a thousand times) and a hot headed dude bro.
@@@@@ 32
Yes, they did include the “I looked for you on the trident” line but none of the “why are you not with Viserys?” stuff. And I really can’t stand how Doogie Hower Ned says “No, now it ends”.
@32: Drownit! Greyjoys and Manderlys, and I’ll still have to wait a year for the DVDs because I don’t have…wait. *investigates* OMDG, the shared house I just moved into has HBO! :-D
@33, Well it seems likely that Ned lied about a lot of things(like being Jon’s father) to support the mythology being built around Robert’s rebellion, so I don’t get the big deal about thinking he lied about the ToJ. But there should still be sorrow in this confrontation, not arrogance and posturing.
@32, No they don’t. Their armor looks nothing like Barristan’s or Jaime’s. Or Meryn Trant’s. They all wear gold armor with white accents.
It’s the changes that alter characters that bug me. Sam was terrified to become a maester because of his father, he certainly didn’t suggest it. The night’s watch killed Jon because he actually betrayed his vows, not because they didn’t agree with him. And the fact that cersei didn’t tie her own noose so completely really rankles me. That was the most satisfying part of FFC, watching her Pat herself on. The back as she moved from one disaster to the next.
Oh, well written, ladies of Fire and Lunch! Congrats on a great article. Hope it sends more people to your tumblr and podcast.
My two chief complaints since season 1 are both casting related. First, I like Lena Headey and think she’s a pretty good actress but her Cersei is in no way the most beautiful woman in Westeros. Second, Peter Dinklage is great as Tyrion and I cant picture anyone else playing that role but come on, he looks nothing like how Tyrion is described in the books aside from his stature. Being ugly and disfigured is a huge part of Tyrion’s character and impacts how every other character related to him. Where are the mismatched eyes, crooked nose, huge scars, hunchback and limp?
I don’t think it’s nitpicking nerd rage, though, to ask about the show’s own continuity. Take Baby Sam – it’s not nitpicking to wonder why he looks like he’s six months old, when Walda Frey-Bolton has gotten pregnant, had a baby, and been murdered alongside her baby, in the time since Sam was born. Or how it takes Sansa and Brienne and Theon two days to ride to the Wall from the outskirts of Winterfell, but Stannis was so bummed out about losing his supplies on that march that he burned his own daughter – the same Stannis who, in the books, told his men to crown her if anything happened to her on the way to King’s Landing. It’s not nitpicking to ask why everyone in Dorne is apparently ok with Ellaria Sand, a bastard paramour of Oberyn Martell, murdering Doran and his heir and ruling in his stead. (Moreover, why did she murder Oberyn’s and Elia’s brother as vengeance for Oberyn – who volunteered for the trial by combat! – and Elia. She had Jaime Lannister, a member of the family that was responsible for all the Martells’ troubles, RIGHT THERE, and didn’t lift a finger to hurt him. She wanted war with the Iron Throne? Slip poison into the soup of the King’s uncle and Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, and voila, you’ve got your war. And vengeance against the Lannisters.
These are just a few of the issues that exist within the show’s continuity, nothing to do with how they’ve adapted the books, just questions that come up if you watch the show with the care that HBO shows of the past, such as The Wire, rewarded. It’s almost as though the showrunners just really don’t care any more.
Time to vent some nerd rage!
-High Septon III and his cohorts being homophobic and not particularly into helping the smallfolk. Did HBO decide, out of the blue, that ham-handedly teaching social egalitarianism to GOT’s target audience was truly necessary?
-I’ve complained about this before, but no Moqorro.
-No Brave Companions. Along with having Jaime kill his cousin for no good reason, Qyburn just kind of shows up on Roose Bolton’s team for no reason at all.
-Stannis in season 5, ’nuff said.
@31: The design of the Others in the show is one the few things that I honestly consider an improvement. (Not their appearance in the books is bad, I just think the desiccated look is cooler.)
To nitpick the nitpicking: You say that the “One Thousand Eyes and One” line originally just refers to Bloodraven’s spies and only becomes more meaningful in DwD, but that’s not the case. It was coined to refer to the fact that Bloodraven lost an eye in the First Blackfyre Rebellion.
The lack of Arianne!
@12 Loras is NOT the most capable knight in Westeros. Pretty sure his brother Garlan would wipe the floor with him
I think Dany thing is more than nitpick. And I actually cared more about block -> sword change that Cat -> sister
@41: Sorry, neglected to write “that” in the last sentence of my comment.
Very interesting article. I have to confess that, until I read it, I had failed to notice most of the changes listed.
However, there’s one change that, while completely understandable from the point of logistics and physical issues, seems to me to be a real loss to the narrative. And that’s the fact that in the Battle of Blackwater, Tyrion didn’t just get a large scar on his face (which, in fact, doesn’t really hurt his appearance), he had his nose cut off.
Now I can understand that Peter Dinklege might have been the teensiest bit reluctant to have his nose cut off for the sake of fidelity to the novels, and clearly neither makeup nor CGI could have sufficed, couldn’t they have done a little better than that scar? The point was that as Tyrion became a horror to look at, it made it even more difficult for some of the … shall we say “less empathetic” members of his family (and yes, I DO mean Tywin, but also Sansa as well) to see beyond his disfigurement.
That’s my major nitpick, but I have to say in response to many of the comments I’ve seen here, that I absolutely do regard both my nits and the ones enumerated by F&L to be just that: nits. And while it’s fun to pick at them, I can honestly say that they have NOT spoiled my pleasure in and enjoyment of the television adaptation.
Another really interesting discussion!
It’s idiotic to think the sword of the morning would only fight with Dawn. A broad sword has it’s uses but 3v7 is hardly a time to be swinging a gigantic, extremely heavy sword. He was the best knight in Westeros, ie. He could fight with any weapon available. Use your heads.
@30 Nothing that we know suggests that Lyanna left any message for her family about wanting to go with Rhaegar. And even if she did, she should’ve made sure there was absolutely no chance it won’t reach them. Her family was scared and pissed and her thoughtlessness caused her father and brother’s deaths. I get that she was young, I get that she didn’t want to marry Robert (I know I wouldn’t), but she acted selfishly.
@32 They took some dialogue from the books, but also changed some, like the one about Rhaegar being buried in ground or something like that (when as a Targaryen he was burned after death. Do D&D even read what Martin has to say about books?). Also imo that “now it begins” came out of nowhere in the show.
Also showing that Ned lied to his children, because “it’d be fun if it turned out Ned’s not as honourable as we thought”? That’s the problem with the show: they do stuff, because they think it’d be fun if instead of what is logical for the character.
48. DragonKnight
What? You mean it doesn’t make sense to have the character who was basically killed by his own honor not turn out to be all that honorable?
@39: Yeah, I feel like Gilly’s baby should’ve grown some hair by now. I could be wrong.
@44: As Olenna said in the book, Loras is “good at pushing men off horses with a stick.”
The killing off of characters in season 2 that were still alive in book 5.
Roz as a recurring character simply because the showrunners really liked her, when the only mention of her I recall in the books is, “Your first tumble with Roz is on me.”
The omission of Drogo’s gentle treatment of Daenerys on their wedding night. That was utterly infuriating.
Them doing what they did to Ned bothers me quite a bit. The thing that made Ned one of my favorite characters in the books was that he was such an honorable man. He was honorable to a fault. Yes he lied about Jon but there was honor even in that. No, I don’t like what they are doing to Ned at all!
Leaving out Lady Stoneheart also really bothers me.
Here’s a nitpick I’ve had for ages (which is mean, because the little actor is delightful):
How are you going to stay true to — nay, make a huge running plot epiphany out of — the book bit where the illegitimacy of Cersei’s children is proven by the fact that all Baratheons have black hair due to the strength of the genes, and then cast a little blonde girl as Shireen?
(Hey, Dany has a wig, so could Shireen.)
(I’m sorry Shireen)
(I loved you, Shireen)
@53Stannis and Jon Arryn and Ned all came up with that because of what Robert’s bastards looked like and the fact that everytime a Lannister married a Baratheon children had black hair. It was about Baratheon having stronger genes than Lannisters, not than everyone else ;) I’m more pissed at the fact that Ned/Lyanna had brown hair, Rhaegar was Targaryen silver-haired and yet Jon has black hair?
Two things stood out for me from the beginning: (1) Jaime’s nondescript hair. He was supposed to be golden haired. Didn’t they have enough in the budget to manage that? And then the travesty of Dany’s wedding night, which in the book was one of the very few lovely scenes. They could have gotten the rape bits in later, didn’t need to be there. Turned me off the whole thing. The books are classic, the TV show is very close to rubbish. Unnecessary and extraneous sex and violence. Did I gloss over those bits in the books? Perhaps, but I think they mostly didn’t exist.
@47: “It’s idiotic to think the sword of the morning would only fight with Dawn. A broad sword has it’s uses but 3v7 is hardly a time to be swinging a gigantic, extremely heavy sword. He was the best knight in Westeros, ie. He could fight with any weapon available. Use your heads.”
Dawn is a very light sword. It was forged with meteor iron rather than Valyrian steel, but if anything is described as possibly even superior to Valyrian steel. A lot of Dayne’s reputation and skill (and that of the other Swords of the Morning) comes down to a superior ability coupled with a formidable weapon. He’d be very dangerous with an ordinary sword, but Barristan or Jaime-level dangerous. It’s the mixture of that skill coupled with a superior, unique weapon he’s fought with all his life that made him what he was.
wow, i’m starting to feel bad for only being mildly annoyed at some of these. others i didn’t even notice.
congrats? i guess?
@51, Drogo’s “gentle treatment” aside, what was done to Dany that night was still rape. Not having any ability to withdraw consent, is rape. And what was shown in Dany’s next chapter in the books, was that she had no right to say no to Drogo. And considering the show people(watchers and runners) have a hard time ascertaining when something was actually rape, I can’t begrudge them for being so forward about it. What is even more troubling to me, is how people took Dany’s viewpoint of that night at face value, instead recognizing that her inability to see what was actually happening there indicates stuff about Dany as a person.
@54 — But Jon’s hair is PRETTY, and SHINY, so I’m fine with that.** :-) (And really just dark brown. I’d have enjoyed it if Ned and Lyanna–and Arya, actually– had Jon-colored hair, but I could have a prejudice.) The Baratheons (STANNIS) on the other hand ought to have had hair like gorram Jessica Jones!!
(Chris Dempsie’s hair was definitely darker for this role than I think is natural for him, even if not the full-on black I’d have preferred because of my odd fixations. It can be done!)
**For all other aspects of this argument, I’m gonna wait until final, unequivocal theory confirmation. GRRM might just choose to be contrary.
I forgot. Jon leaving for Hardhome by sea and returning to Castle Black by land.
@59 Why do you really expect Stannis and Shireen to have black hair when Bobby B had brown? Like, lighter than Jon’s brown. Now that I think of it, them putting the black haired bastards was stupid.
Even if Jon’s hair in the show is dark brown, they are still too dark considering Ned and Lyanna’s hair. I don’t know who Chris Demsie is but I’m going to assume you mean Joe. To be honest though, they messed up a lot of hair. Rickon, Bran, Robb, Cat should all have red hair and only Sansa really does. Dany should’ve lost her hair at the end of first season. Jaime nor Cersei had right hair, Tyrion’s were different colour each season and never matched the ones from the books. Lancel’s are now really dark, because joining faith does that to your hair?
You think Martin is the kind of author to plant clues to theory and then say “f**k it” and change it, for no reason (and if your reason is fans figuring this out – he already said he won’t change anything because of us)?
Don’t the Hornfoots sound more like law wildlings than Thenns?
Orientalist? Sure the Dothraki are barbarian horde dialed up to eleven but the Ironborn are a similarly exaggerated version of Vikings. And if the Slavers Bay cities are abhorrent Westeros doesn’t come off as any utopia either.