Welcome back to the Oathbringer Reread! This week, our inadvertent explorers give us our first in-depth look at Shadesmar, the Cognitive realm. Oh, wait, Adolin fell into the depths last time we saw them. This time, they just have to figure out how to get away from the dangers surrounding them without falling in. Good luck with that, kids.
Reminder: we’ll potentially be discussing spoilers for the ENTIRE NOVEL in each reread—if you haven’t read ALL of Oathbringer, best to wait to join us until you’re done.
In this week’s reread we also discuss some small things from Warbreaker and Mistborn: Secret History in the Cosmere Connections section, so if you haven’t read those, best to give that section a pass.
Chapter Recap
WHO: Adolin and the Shadesmar Exploration Squad (ie, Kaladin, Shallan, Azure, Pattern, Maya, and Syl.)
WHERE: Shadesmar (Sea of Lost Lights)
WHEN: 1174.2.3.3, the same day that we left our intrepid crew but the day BEFORE Venli arrives in Kholinar in the interludes.
Adolin’s initial assumption is that they’re dead, while Kaladin panics and then collapses. With the claws of a huge hand coming up around them through the beads, Shallan focuses on finding a way to get them away from the middle of the action. Armed with Azure’s knowledge of Shadesmar, she uses the soul of a door and the soul of the Oathgate control room to ferry them step by small step to the nearest solid ground, where they will camp and rest.
Beginnings
Title: Damnation
“I’m dead,” Adolin whispered. “We’re dead, and this is Damnation.”
Heralds
Battah (Battar), Wise/Careful. Elsecallers. Role: Counsellor. Talenelat (Talenel, Taln.) Herald of War. Dependable / Resourceful. Stonewards. Role: Soldier.
L: Battah could be here for a few different reasons. First of all, she’s Herald of the Elsecallers, and Shadesmar is pretty much their domain. Secondly, Shallan is displaying some of her traits here—she’s being very careful and wise in her use of the door/building to get them to safety, and it’s worthwhile to note that this is pretty resourceful (Talenelat), too. Adolin is also displaying the trait of counsellor in regards to his treatment of Kaladin, in addition to his usual associations (dependable, soldier) with Talenelat.
Icon
Shardbearer, indicating an Adolin POV, which this week he shares with Shallan
Epigraph
My research into the Unmade has convinced me that these things were not simply “spirits of the void” or “nine shadows who moved in the night.” They were each a specific kind of spren, endowed with vast powers.
—From Hessi’s Mythica, page 3
AA: Wooo-hooo! Collected research on the Unmade for the Part Four epigraphs! I suppose, like all in-world books, we have to take everything with a grain of salt; Hessi is only researching available information, and basing her statements on her interpretation of the things she’s found. Still, it’s more than we had before, so we’ll take it.
Here, she reminds her reader that these are not merely spirits or shadows, or legends of such. They are spren—each one different and holding different powers—vast and powerful spren. Unfortunately, that’s about all this one tells us.
Stories & Songs
AA: There are several references to Unmade (aside from the epigraph) in this chapter. There is something enormous, repeatedly shifting around beneath the Oathgate platform on which they’re standing, and then it starts to become visible:
In the near distance, a single spire of rock broke the surface, tall and black.… As it grew to the height of a building, a joint appeared. Storms. It wasn’t a spire or a mountain … it was a claw.
More emerged in other directions. An enormous hand was reaching slowly upward through the glass beads. Deep beneath them a heartbeat began sounding, rattling the beads.
AA: Obligatory YIKES here! As Lyndsey pointed out a few weeks ago, the Unmade can be huuuuge on this side. Presumably, with the heartbeat reference, this is Ashertmarn reaching up for them.
I have to ask: Was the spren that big before it was unmade, or has it become that big due to the perceptions of the people of Roshar? This goes back to my preoccupation with the origins of the Unmade, obviously, but I have to wonder. If they were “big” spren before, what were they the spren of? Were there spren who represented the Rosharan equivalent of the seven deadly sins (except presumably nine), or were they spren of natural phenomena like the Stormfather and the Nightwatcher? We have no answers, but I wonder.
Then there’s Sja-anat… and interestingly enough, we see no sign of her being on this side—just the result of her actions. Syl points out that the Oathgate spren were corrupted by Sja-anat, and Shallan thinks about how Sja-anat was supposed to kill them but said she’d try not to. That’s about all we get on her.
AP: It’s still unclear exactly how Sja-anat corrupts spren. Is it merely by existing around them? Like a trail left behind? Or does it take an active process? If it’s passive, that may be why she can’t ensure control of the outcome. If she is even really on the side of Our Heroes, which I remain skeptical of. Also of note is that Sja-anat is the only Unmade so far that has shown the ability to communicate directly with humans using speech, rather than feelings/impressions/mind control. This could provide hints as to the origins of the various Unmade spren. There are definitely varying levels of communicative ability among even the higher spren, like Syl vs. Timbre.
L: To be fair, Timbre hasn’t formally bonded with Venli yet. Syl and Pattern couldn’t verbally communicate with their Knights at first either.
Relationships & Romances
AA: Oddly enough, for a chapter with Adolin and Shallan as the POV characters, there’s very little going on between them. It’s like Adolin looks at what Shallan’s doing and decides that she doesn’t need to be distracted, but looks at what Kaladin is doing and decides that he definitely needs some distracting. It’s really quite clever.
“Kaladin?” Adolin asked.
Kaladin finally shook himself and gave in to Syl’s prodding. He walked onto the rooftop. Adolin followed, then took Kaladin’s pack—deliberately but firmly—and swung it over his own shoulder. Kaladin let him.
[…]
“Hey,” Adolin said. “It will be all right.”
“I survived Bridge Four,” Kaladin growled. “I’m strong enough to survive this.”
“I’m pretty sure you could survive anything. Storms, bridgeboy, the Almighty used some of the same stuff he put into Shardblades when he made you.”
AA: Is it just me, or is this whole exchange, plus all the bit that follows, absolutely hilarious and sweet and dorky all at the same time? Adolin uses an outrageous combination of flattery, self-deprecation, cajolery, insult, and anything else he can to keep Kaladin talking, distracted, and above all moving. The fact that Kaladin lets him, and in a sense leans on him in this situation, is pretty amazing in itself. The best part is Syl—she stays close, but lets Adolin guide the conversation. I begin to think that any further objections to Adolin carrying a dead sword will be more for form’s sake than any actual dislike or distrust of him.
AP: I think this is a great section. Kaladin is having a major stress reaction here, and is borderline unresponsive when he gets to Shadesmar. Adolin does great here by helping give him something to focus on, a lifeline that keeps him grounded.
Bruised & Broken
“I couldn’t make them see,” Kaladin whispered. “I couldn’t… couldn’t protect them. I’m supposed to be able to protect people, aren’t I?”
L: I just want to give him a giant hug. Poor, poor Kaladin. In his view, his powers were supposed to help him, to make it so that he wouldn’t have to lose people anymore. Naive, but understandable. Now here he is, losing people again, and it’s breaking him.
AA: I know, right? His immediate reaction on arriving in Shadesmar is to suck in All The Stormlight and charge to the rescue, but with no way to reach the people he wants to protect, all he does is endanger his current company. Once he gives up on that approach (thank you, Sylphrena), all he can think about is his inability—past and present—to protect the people he cared about.
I do feel for him. Depression has a tendency to focus you on all the things you can’t do, and make the things you can do look so insignificant as to be worthless. That doesn’t make it fun to read about, but it sure is true to life!
AP: Brandon does a great job here showing a completely human reaction to failure, especially in the setting of depression. It’s definitely relatable, and makes sense that Kaladin would start to spiral after much of the self worth he has built up is related to his ability to do magic and protect his friends, and it just didn’t work. Coming to terms with being unable to protect everyone all the time is going to be a looong process for him.
AA: Shallan, on the other hand… This time we see her bizarre coping mechanisms in a good light, and it’s easy to see how the same tool can be used for good or ill:
Don’t think about that haunted look in his eyes, Shallan thought. Don’t think about what you’ve done in bringing us here, or how it happened. Don’t think, Shallan.
Her mind went blank, like it did in preparation for drawing, then locked on to her task.
[. . .]
Focus. Something reached out from the back of her mind, grabbed those thoughts and feelings, and yanked them down into the darkness. Gone.
AA: I mean… that last bit is kind of a creepy image, but at the same time, it’s pretty genius. When she needs to get a job done, she’s absolutely brilliant at shutting out the distractions so she can get on with it.
L: I’d also like to point out what a good team she and Adolin are here. She takes on the responsibility of getting them out while Adolin takes on the responsibility of making sure all of them are moving.
AA: I also love that they don’t even talk about it; they just move to doing what they’re good at. I’m mildly amused that Shallan connects blanking her mind to “preparation for drawing” rather than to her years of blocking out other memories, but… whatever floats your boat, girl.
Seriously, though, I like seeing it in this context. So many times in Words of Radiance, we’d see her mind simply disconnect—and it was usually frustrating, because she was right on the brink of telling us something interesting. Here, we get to see her deliberately line out what not to think about, and then block it out so she can focus on saving everyone. In a way, it’s part of her being broken—and at the same time, it contributes to her strength.
AP: So do we think that the thoughts going into “the darkness” is a coping mechanism? Or is it a magically enhanced thing? Like her ability to take an “image” and supernatural drawing ability (seeing the Unmade, making people better versions of themselves through portraits).
AA: Both? I could be wrong, but I assume it’s an artifact of her coping mechanism, magically enhanced by her Illumination access.
Squires & Sidekicks
Living souls bobbed around, a swarm of them entering the Oathgate control chamber. One brushed Shallan. Drehy the bridgeman.
AA: I never really noticed this before, but we now know that when the Oathgate didn’t work the way they expected, those who had waited outside came looking for them. What a shock it must have been to find the room empty, as though their leaders had decided to leave without them! Clearly they didn’t let that stop them from doing what was needed.
For a brief moment she felt what it was like to be him. Worried for Kaladin. Panicked that nobody was in charge, that he would have to take command. He wasn’t a commander. You couldn’t be a rebel if you were in charge. He liked being told what to do—that way he could find a method to do it with style.
AA: I… don’t really have anything insightful to say about this. I just like the peek into Drehy’s thoughts.
Drehy’s worries caused her own to bubble up. The bridgemen’s powers will fade without Kaladin, she thought. What of Vathah, Red, and Ishnah?
AA: Those are valid worries, but—as she so quickly notes—there’s nothing she can do about it now. All the same, now I wonder. Are any of those people becoming Radiants in their own right? When (spoiler alert!) Kaladin finds them again at the end of the book, Drehy says the words of the second Windrunner Ideal. We know he, like the rest of Bridge Four, spoke the first Ideal and “squired up” back in Part Two. What do you suppose are the chances that he leveled up again in the interim? Without Stormlight, he couldn’t fly the rest of the party all the way back to Urithiru, but might that be how he got them out of Kholinar in the first place? Sheer speculation, of course, but if Vathah had some squire powers left, maybe he was able to disguise them, too. Now I really want to know who gained bonds when we weren’t looking!
AP: I think there is a good chance! Looking forward to finding out more in book four!
Places & Peoples
Theology was for women and scribes. Adolin figured he’d try to follow his Calling, becoming the best swordsman he could. The ardents told him that was enough, that he didn’t need to worry about things like Damnation.
Yet here he was….
AA: And once again, we run up against those Vorin gender roles. This one, on the surface, doesn’t sound all that far from an attitude in our not-very-distant past, at least in Western cultures—although it’s more likely to be phrased “religion” rather than “theology.” On the other hand… there’s actually a pretty big difference. Most Vorin men believe their religion, but theology, like all forms of scholarship, is the domain of women and ardents. It’s almost the opposite of that particular Earth attitude, because in Vorinism, debate and logic are restricted to women and ardents, with ordinary men blocked out. It’s an interesting twist; however you feel about having roles defined by gender at all, you have to admit that Sanderson stood the stereotype on its head with this one.
Personally, I get a charge out of the way he set it up so that science, logic, scholarship, and religion are all overtly on the same side, instead of the current western misperception that they’re at odds.
AP: I think it does once again show the broken nature of the Vorin cultural norms. “That’s for the other gender so I don’t have to think about it” is pretty short sighted. It’s definitely a reversal from what we are used to in Western culture, but it doesn’t seem to work any better!
Weighty Words
“We’re not dead,” Azure growled. “They call this place Shadesmar. It’s the realm of thought.”
“I peek into this place when I Soulcast,” Shallan said. “Shadesmar overlaps the real world, but many things are inverted here.”
AA: First off, I have to point out this evidence that Shallan has not physically entered Shadesmar before. As she says here, she has peeked in; she was not really there, disorienting as she found it even so. Fortunately, she and Jasnah had talked about Shadesmar; she was able to remember the necessity of having Stormlight and use that to figure out what to do next. She might not have picked the most efficient method, but she found something that worked. That’s not nothing.
She also notes that, once again, the spren don’t notice her use of Stormlight as much as they do Kaladin’s. This is, what, the second or third mention of this? Is it going be important for some later development, or is it just narrative convenience?
AP: I don’t know if it’s really evidence, because when she did it before, way back in Words of Radiance and almost drowned in beads, she didn’t know what she was doing and had to be rescued by Jasnah. When she Soulcasts and peeks in, the experience is different. I think there are definitely degrees of “presence” in Shadesmar, and getting in seems to be much easier than getting back out!
AA: I’ll have to sit down and think about this with both hands sometime, because the prior incidents in Shadesmar are a little confusing. Jasnah seems to have been unable to get there physically until Ivory let her—which only happened when she was near death—so it’s not exactly easy to get there. Shallan’s episodes… well, I read them all as “she’s there in her mind, but her body remains in the physical realm”—and I think this comment supports that. But it might not be proof.
“Everybody,” she said, “those flames are the souls of people, while these spheres represent the souls of objects. Yes, there are huge philosophical implications in that. Let’s try to ignore them, shall we?”
AA: LOL. Yes, please, let’s not get distracted with philosophy while we need to focus on survival!
AP: I mean, yeah, but also I want to know more! I sincerely hope we get a lot more Shadesmar lore in coming books. And I’m looking forward to discussing the parts we get in upcoming chapters!
Swords, recently swung and glorying in their purpose fulfilled. Other weapons belonged to dead men, blades that had the faintest inkling that they’d failed somehow.
AA: Well, that’s just painful. When I was very young, I anthropomorphized far too much for my own good. E.g.: The mattress on my bed was old, and when a spring broke and poked through, it had to be replaced; the old one was taken to the landfill. I hated and complained about the broken spring poking me, but once it was gone, I cried and cried for the poor mattress lying out there in the dump, all sad and lonely. This brings that ALL back, because on Roshar it probably would be lying out there being sad and lonely, and also feeling that it had failed because it wasn’t comfortable any more!
AP: Or its identity slowly changed as it accepted its new purpose as a cozy home for a family of mice!
AA: Hey, that’s a good thought! Wish you’d said that when I was seven or so…
They had to huddle together while Shallan dismissed the rooftop behind, sending it crashing down, then squeezed past everyone to raise another copy of the building.
AA: Most of the movement in this chapter comes from Shallan’s effort, but somehow it seems to have the least to talk about. Once Azure explains the inverse nature of land and water in the Cognitive realm vs. the Physical, Adolin points out the nearest river, and they have to figure out how to get there. For a bit, it’s mostly sifting through beads—under a time crunch, with those claws coming up around them—trying to find something big enough and flat enough to serve as a “raft” for them. Well, more of an oversized stepping stone, I guess; Shallan can make a solid object form from the beads, but she can’t make it move, more’s the pity. She uses two objects (the roof of the Oathgate control building, and a big door) and alternates them in a tedious, exhausting, and slightly precarious fashion to move the entire party to the solid ground of the river.
Somewhere along the way, Pattern notes that the soul-lights are no longer disappearing; the humans are surrendering, and the fighting ends. Other than that, it’s tense… and uneventful. In a way, this shouldn’t even be in the unit about Knights Radiant using their powers, other than that Shallan’s Lightweaver affinity for Shadesmar is (presumably) what enables her to make the beads obey her will and form the objects she needs.
AP: We also get additional emphasis on her Lightweaver powers being “quieter” somehow than Kaladin’s. This is her using her visualization ability, and it doesn’t attract additional notice like Kaladin’s use of Stormlight. I think that forming the platforms is more related to Soulcasting, and it still uses Stormlight. So it’s not just her illusions that are “quieter”.
Meaningful Motivations
AA: This ties in with the Relationships mentioned above, but from a slightly different angle.
Adolin felt useless.
All his life, he had understood. He’d taken easily to dueling. People naturally seemed to like him. Even in his darkest moment—standing on the battlefield and watching Sadeas’s armies retreat, abandoning him and his father—he’d understood what was happening to him.
Not today. Today he was just a confused little boy standing in Damnation.
Today, Adolin Kholin was nothing.
AA: The thing I love most about this is what comes next. It’s not that he looks around for a way to be useful; he doesn’t even think about it. Without a conscious effort to not be useless, he just does the thing that needs doing; in this case shepherding Kaladin. Once Kaladin is settled on the land with his spren, and Azure has collapsed near him, Adolin turns around and half-carries Shallan through the last few steps of beads when her platform gives out. Without ever a thought of, “Oh, this is a thing I can do!” he does the next thing because it’s there to be done.
Adolin surveyed his companions. Shallan lay on the ground … Azure slumped forward, her small Shardblade across her lap. Kaladin continued to stare at nothing with haunted eyes […]
“Azure,” Adolin said, “is it safe here, on this land?””As safe as anywhere in Shadesmar,” she said tiredly. “The place can be dangerous if you attract the wrong spren, but there isn’t anything we can do about that.”
“Then we camp here.”
“But—” Kaladin said.
“We camp,” Adolin said. Gentle, but firm. “We can barely stand up straight, bridgeman.”
AA: I know, I sound gushy or something, but I really do like this boy. For all his sudden and unfamiliar uncertainty, he doesn’t fall apart; that’s just not who he is. He just… does the next thing. I don’t know if Sanderson intended it, but this reminds me so much of the part where Dalinar realizes that “the most important step is not the first one, it’s the next one.” His son is ahead of him on this, except that he never does it deliberately—he just does it.
AP: He is used to command, and it shows. He is a practiced leader, and he does a good job handling a sudden difficult situation.
AA: One last moment with him, though:
Adolin looked one last time at the city, standing witness to the fall of his birthplace.
Storms, he thought. Elhokar… Elhokar is dead.
Little Gav had been taken, and Dalinar was planning to abdicate. Third in line was … Adolin himself.
King.
AA: And there’s no indication that he has started feeling like “something” again. He’s just facing what’s in front of him; he doesn’t like it, but it’s the next thing to look at. This kind of thing is why I think Adolin is a good leader; when it comes down to basics, he takes a clear look at the situation and deals with what he’s got without worrying about what anyone else will think. Neither arrogance nor self-pity, and no concern with blaming anyone for anything. Not while others need him to be clear-headed.
AP: I definitely think this is his training coming through. For his other failings as a parent, Dalinar prepared Adolin for leadership. Evi taught him to do it with empathy.
Cosmere Connections
Some of the lights nearby vanished. Candles flames being snuffed out.
AA: In Mistborn: Secret History, Kelsier sees people arriving in the Cognitive realm as they die, appearing in color as they die. But here, the candle flames just vanish. No one in the group can even tell who they were, once the flame isn’t there to be touched. Is this because they’re alive and physically in the Cognitive realm, while Kelsier was dead and was “seeing with his soul”? Or is it a difference between Scadrial and Roshar? Thoughts?
L: My inclination is to think that this is a difference between Roshar and Scadrial, but I have no reason for why I think that…
Azure followed, her shoulders sagging. In fact, her… her hair was fading. It was the strangest thing; Adolin watched it dim from Alethi jet-black to a faint grey as she sat down.
L: Reminder that the Royal Locks are tied to emotions. Looks like Azure has finally let go of that strict control she must have been exerting over her hair to allow it to change to reflect her emotions again.
AA: I loved this. One more piece of the puzzle, confirming Azure’s identity. Even more so when it’s black again later, disproving Adolin’s initial assumption that it’s just “another effect of this strange place.” As a reminder, hair fading to grey or white is associated with fear or panic. On a guess, Azure wasn’t kidding when she said she hated this place! I wonder what makes her fearful of it, though…
AP: See, I saw it as a loss of conscious control of her hair because of the situation. And it made me really really worry about the dangers of Shadesmar if our normally very put together Azure is that afraid of it.
AA: Right. Whether the loss of control is due to exhaustion or overwhelming fear, the grey does indicate fear. Shadesmar is not a friendly place.
Also, it bothers the Rosharans that her sword doesn’t behave like a normal Shardblade; when Adolin tries to summon his Blade, she screams at him, but Azure’s just sits there being a sword. (I do want that Warbreaker sequel!)
L: Well, Azure’s sword isn’t a spren, right?
AP: I agree. It behaves like a shardblade, but isn’t a shardblade, and isn’t even from Roshar.
AA: Again, a little poke to the reader that “pssst, she’s not from around here!”
A Scrupulous Study of Spren
AA: So many spren! I’m not even going to try to quote all the relevant passages, but we start off with Adolin’s reaction to what he sees around him:
Terrible, awful spren swarmed in the ocean of beads, bearing a multitude of nightmare forms. They twisted and writhed, howling with inhuman voices. He didn’t recognize any of the varieties.
Which leads, a couple of pages later, to this:
Some of the eel-like spren climbed onto the platform, using stumpy legs that Adolin had missed earlier. Those long purple antennae stretched toward him, wiggling.
Fearspren, he realized. Fearspren were little globs of purple goo that looked exactly like the tips of those antennae.
AA: Of course, we already knew this (if we were paying attention). What humans see in the Physical realm is less than what the parsh see, and that’s less than what is really visible in the Cognitive realm. But it’s fun to see someone work that out for themselves.
The big obvious ones are the bonded spren, of course; I find it interesting that Adolin so readily identifies Syl and Pattern as who they are. The “strange one” is (duh!) my favorite:
He put his hand to the side to summon his own Shardblade.
The woman with the scratched eyes stretched her head toward him in an unnatural way, then screeched with a loud, piercing howl.
[…]
“That is your sword,” Pattern said in a perky voice. […] “Hmmm. She is quite dead. I don’t think you can summon her here.”
AA: Thank you for that cheerful observation, Pattern! Poor Adolin, though. What a disconcerting effect. Not only can he not actually use his dependable Shardblade while in Shadesmar, which has to be discomforting in itself, she’s going to follow him around, and he’s going to spend the whole time being forced to see her as a dead(-ish) spren.
Arresting Artwork
AA: And here’s a closer look at some of the places we’ll be going in the next few months, as annotated by Nazh. I really love his snarky comments. “I rode that mandra from here to Celebrant, so you owe me those silver pieces after all.” (Presumably aimed at Khriss—did they have a bet on?) And who on earth in the Cosmere is “Smolderbrand”??? Sounds a bit dragon-ish to me…
I don’t suppose we’ll ever hear the stories behind these comments. In fact, there’s a reasonable possibility that the stories don’t and won’t even exist, and the comments were created by Isaac just because they sounded fun and hinted at things happening elsewhere. On the other hand, it’s possible that Isaac has full back-stories in his head… Sure would love to hear them, even if they aren’t canon.
AP: This is something that I hope gets referenced or explained when we get to the cosmere level of the story! I’m very eager to have more crossovers.
AA: Also, why is it called “the Sea of Lost Lights”??
Quality Quotations
Damnation. No matter what Azure said, he was certainly in Damnation.
“You, sword lady! Help me over here. Adolin, you too. Kaladin, see if you can brood this place into submission.”
Well then. Welcome to Shadesmar! Next week, we’ll split our attention between the Purelake, past!Alethkar, and Shadesmar. We finally get to see what Szeth has been up to (Chapter 90), and Kaladin has an actual flashback, followed by a closely-related talk with his spren (Chapter 91). See you in the comments!
Alice is dismayed to see the end of summer nearing. It’s been much to quick.
Lyndsey is excited to begin this year’s season at the Connecticut Renaissance Faire, where she’s been cast as the lovable Constable Affable. If you’re an aspiring author, a cosplayer, or just like geeky content, follow her work on Facebook or Instagram, or hunt her down at the Faire if you’re in the area!
Aubree is trying to find just the right beads for her next project. Maybe a bit of yarn that wants to be a pompom.
Is there really any doubt that Shallan doesn’t physically travel there? First of all, she doesn’t have the Surge of Transportation. Secondly, and probably more definitively, remember that scene in WoR when she is trying to make a campfire? And she is able to see both the physical world and Shadesmar at the same time.
Oh, and when Azure’s hair turned grey, that was when I finally realized that she was Vivenna. It was a “ah ha!” moment for me.
With scenes like this, it shows that Adolin is actually a good leader, and that he wasn’t just picked because he was dad’s son. The guy had been trained for almost his entire life to be a leader, so it comes natrually to him. he assess’s his surroundings, strange as they are, sees one of the men broken, and tries to help them back up, to distract them. That, my friends, is leadership. it may not be Kal or Dalinar’s just natrually giving orders and people listen, but it shows that Adolin does have the charisma.
So bunch of things
First, love the transitioning map! Looks great! It also made me realize this is the second time now Shallan has been lost at “sea” lol
Second, love the imagery Brandon uses to describe Ashterman’s size. A finger joint the size of a building, we are getting to Godzilla proportions here.
Third, I definitely agree depression can make a person only focus on the negative to the point that nothing good seems to exist. You really feel for Kaladin during this pain.
Fourth, I agree that a brief flashback, or even a conversation about Vathah and Drehy during the fall of Kholinar would be cool in the next book. I wonder how they escaped. It is a good point that Vathah could have potentially used illusions to get them out.
Fifth, I see Jasnah as Earth history in motion. Originally scientists were found among the clergy (Gregor Mendel for one). It wasn’t until scientific discoveries started to conflict with Church doctrine where problems arose, and the Church tried to silence or change them. Jasnah now standing as a scientist and atheist, I think is a great example of the burgeoning scientific revolution.
@1 Austin
There was some confusion awhile back because there is a WoB where Brandon seemed to imply Shallan could fully transition to the Cognitive realm. I think he said what he said, to obliquely refer to this scene without spoiling it. I will update my post with the WoB that caused the confusion. I think the ultimate conclusion is that lightweavers cannot fully transition, but I believe the question is still potentially open
edit: here is the WoB
NutiketAiel
When a Radiant is in the Cognitive Realm, does their mind exist individually, like separately from their body?
Brandon Sanderson
Uhh, no.
NutiketAiel
So you physically travel to the Cognitive Realm?
Brandon Sanderson
You can kind of step in between both but you do not separate from your body.
NutiketAiel
So when Shallan is only partly in…she’s in both at the same time?
Brandon Sanderson
Yeah. She’s transitioning. It’s not astral projection. But no that’s a legit question.
NutiketAiel
So Shallan, and Lightweavers, are capable of physically stepping into Shadesmar?
Brandon Sanderson
RAFO. But the implication is yes.
https://wob.coppermind.net/events/219/#e7924
“Kaladin, see if you can brood this place into submission.” *giggle*
Now it’s really Mythica time! Yay!
I was disappointed the the sea in Shadesmar was made of beads, not water, because I categorically love waterways and this story spends too little time with them. But I greatly like the perfect inversion of land and sea, with every little bit of waterway replaced by land and vice versa. That second map and the notes on it are great.
She was in Shadesmar, and Jasnah rescued her. Then Jasnah realized that Shallan should not have the Surge of Transportation and decided that this could not have happened, and Shallan hero-worships her and is accepting her incorrect conclusion. See the WoB @Scáth quotes.
Is it worth mentioning that the Proto-Germanic and Old/Middle English “brand” means “torch”?
@Scáth: Mendel came around long after science became secular. And science was never predominantly or even largely a thing for those of religious vocation–modern science started with people like Roger Bacon, yes, but also Kepler, Galileo, Newton, et alia.
@5 – Huh. That’s as clear as mud lol. To me, it just doesn’t make logical sense. Shallan has been in and out of Shadesmar a few times. It’s never described as though she physically went there. Take the passage from the end of TWoK, where Jasnah has to pull Shallan back from Shadesmar. Shallan comes back to her body and sees Jasnah with her eyes closed. She is clearly there mentally, not physically.
In addition to that, it’s been explained that entering Shadesmar is hard (Jasnah only did it for the first time when she was stabbed) but getting out is way harder. You have to find a transition point. That wouldn’t make any sense if Shallan has been physically entering and leaving Shadesmar this whole time.
Alice, Lyndsey and Aubree. Real cool graphics of the map of Roshar and the map of Shadesmar flipping back in forth.
From what limited evidence we have, I think in order to Soulcast, part of you (if not all of you) enters Shadesmar. We see this when Shallan Soulcasts the wine in WoK, when she tries to Soulcast the stick in WoR (remember, Pattern acts as interpreter) and when Jasnah first enters Shadesmar (prologue WoR). Lightweaving, on the other hand, only requires that Shallan glimpse (or view into) Shadesmar.
Alice, Lyndsey & Aubree. A suggestion, if you do not mind. During the Shadesmar adventures, can you mark the map (“a portion of the Sea of Lost Lights” document) with a little x and/or arrows to indicate where are adventurers are going. As you did with the map of Kholinar in the infiltration of Kholinar section.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
aka the musespren
As to why it’s called the “Sea of Lost Lights,” it does seem to cover most of Alethkar on the transitioning map. Given that when people die in the Physical Realm, their light disappears, and Alethkar has historically been one of the most warlike nations on Roshar, did the name for the Sea of Lost Lights come from all of the death that has happened in Alethkar over the centuries? They seem to be in a low-grade civil war whenever they aren’t conquered/unified by someone like Gavilar or the Sunmaker. Heck, even when unified, some light skirmishing seems to always be happening.
@@.-@ Scath. It seems to me that what he’s dancing around here is that she CAN go to Shadesmar physically, but had not yet done so.
General stuff: I have so many questions about Shadesmar and the cognitive realm in general and only the tiniest fraction were answered in the text. One big one: since everything that’s ocean is land, how easy would it be to get to the origin via Shadesmar? I bet pretty easy, and there’s got to be a pool there.
It always seems to be a strange connection with the Cognitive realm, where land is whatever is associated with the shard world, and water is land. In Scadiel, everything Mist based, the ground was covered in it, and was squishy, like the bottom of the ocean. In Roshar, it’s beads. everywhere. the rules of the Cognitive realm seem to be different for each, which goes back to that question I had last week about the spiritual world, and the WoB of the realm being splintered. i’m sure its a RAFO, but it does all come up with some kind of mystery. That’s probably why we get so little about Shadesmar in this book. Honestly, I do like this section better than Alekthar, while we didn’t get all the answers, surely we will go back.
In modern German Smolderbrand would be Schwelbrand (smouldering fire).
I love the the map up at the top. Nice stuff. As for Adolin taking charge of the “lost boy”, it matches with an EdgeDancer. He is caring for the others and being sure they make it. Just like the EdgeDancers in Urithiru took care of the common folks.
Shallan has something in her that “grabs” unnecessary thoughts and pulls them down. That seems different from her usual denial; there she is pushing them down and becoming a different personality. Here she stayed as Shallan.
The hair change is where I first realized who Azure probably was. I completely missed earlier when everyone else seemed to get the hint.
I suspect Hessi of being a Herald writing under an alias and pretending to know less than they actually do, but enough to convey information that proves to be very important for modern Rosharians. If this is not the case, then that’s some impressive scholarship and I very much hope that they make it to Urithiru, because Jasnah will need all the academic help that she can get, now that she herself has been saddled with ruling Alethkar-in-Exile. Even though this is a unique opportunity for her to practice experimental history ;). Anyway, I want to meet Hessi!
So, these soul flames pose a massive problem for our protagonists, right? Because, looking at all that Shallan learned about Drehy in just a few seconds – why wouldn’t the Fused or the voidspren camp in the soul flames of important figures opposing Odium 24/7 and learn absolutely everything about them, including their very thoughts? Somebody should figure out how to prevent this ASAP! I wonder why Odium even needs Taravangian to spy for him, when he has this option at his fingertips.
And speaking of the squires – would shifting into Shadesmar have the same effect as moving away physically? I suspect not – which would neatly explain how the squires managed to escape the city with Gavinor. Their powers only began to fade after their knights took the spren ship and put significant physical distance between them. Skar and Drehy had the presence of mind to grab Gavinor and pick up Shallan’s people, and Vathah’s Lightweaving likely helped the lot of them to sneak out far enough outside the walls that they could take to the skies for as long as the Windrunner squires powers lasted. I am not sure why Drehy would have needed Kaladin’s help in the end if he got a spren of his own – unless they somehow lost all their gemstones and/or attracted a large enough following that a new-minted knight couldn’t move them all. Which is possible, I guess. Also interesting that Drehy thought that he was in command, when Skar was one of Kaladin’s lieutenants from early on…
Austin @1 – I personally have no doubt that Shallan has never been fully in Shadesmar before this moment. However, if I want to prove it I have to look at all the instances of people (and especially her) interacting with Shadesmar. I wasn’t up for that much research while writing this! :D
Also, to respond to a group of comments farther down, I don’t see the difficulty of dealing with Jasnah having to pull Shallan out of Shadesmar even though neither was there physically. It seems like it would be very easy for your mind to get “lost” in the Cognitive realm and need help getting back. After all, it’s the realm of thought, and its primary interface is with the mind.
goddessimho @14 – Nice catch, tying Adolin’s actions wrt: Kaladin to the Edgedancer Ideals. I wonder if all of this makes a difference to Maya. We don’t really know how aware she is of the things that are happening around her, but… what if? What if she is aware of him behaving in ways that appeal to her nature? Would that, as well as the time physically spent together, be part of why she is able/willing to speak to him later, to give him her name?
Isilel @15 – Ooooohhh. Hessi as a disguised Herald would be really cool! I’d guess Paliah, being the Scholar. My only question is how long any of the Heralds maintained enough sanity to write something so useful? But I like the theory.
About the soul flames – I’m not sure just anyone can gather that much information about people from their soul flames. No one else in the party seems to notice anything; just Shallan – and for her, only that one person. I don’t really know why Drehy should be “touchable” for her, except that she already knew him fairly well. I do suspect that it might take someone with Transformation to be able to get anything from touching a soul flame at all, given that they are the only ones who seem to have the ability to communicate with the Cognitive aspect directly. There may also be further limitations even for them.
I’m glad you mentioned the proximity of the Radiants to their squires after transitioning to Shadesmar. That thought had crossed my mind, but then I forgot about it while writing. They should, I think, still have the connection between squire and Radiant until they’re much farther apart, despite being in different Realms. It’s worth noting that they even move in the same general direction, since “the coast of Alethkar” and Thaylenah are both south and west of Kholinar. Given all that, I would say that it’s more the lack of Stormlight (and its visibility to the Fused, requiring them to be super careful) that would limit what the squires were able to do, more than the loss of their powers.
@15 – Is Hessi a current scholar? I always think of books as historical.
Austin @17 – I had to go look it up once you asked… Yes, apparently the Mythica is a fairly recent book. At one point, she specifically disagrees with Jasnah’s evaluation:
Either in this chapter or one of the next couple, we find that the “land” that corresponds to waterways is the same kind of crystalline stuff as the beads. So then, do bodies of water have some sort of cognitive image corresponding to their entire substance? And that’s why the water becomes land-like, because their “bead” is their entire shape.
We know it’s possible to Soulcast just a little bit of the water in an ocean, which would suggest that I’m wrong. Then again, we also know it’s possible to cut channels through the Shadesmar “land”, and it doesn’t seem to have an effect on the water in the Physical Realm.
@Isilel:
Surely during all that time a Highstorm would have come by to energize Drehy if he had spoken the Second Oath before the ending of this book.
My guess is that its size is in large part due to the amount of power it has gained due to the Revel going on at the palace.
I think the key point here is that SHALLAN is still in charge of herself and finds a way to cope that is very much related to her own personality (rather than one of her personas). This is the first (or second) sign that her talk with Wit started her healing.
Does anyone have a sense of how squires are connected to their leader? Is it through the Cognitive Realm? If so, then the proximity to Kaladin and Shallan might mean the squires still had their powers until they separated by too great a distance (or maybe stayed around since the connection to the Cognitive Realm was maintained by K&S being there).
The only comments are that this has interesting implications for why soulcasters turn people into other forms…and it gives “The Emperor’s Soul” a WHOLE new perspective.
Wetlandernw @@@@@16, 18:
Why would madness necessarily preclude the Heralds from doing something useful to modern people from time to time? Wasn’t Nale’s handling of Szeth and Nightblood ultimately very helpful to Dalinar and Co. at the Battle of Thaylenah? And according to Taravangian, Battar, for one, is still in a fine trim as a writer. The main problem with the Heralds is that their judgement is severely impaired, which makes them unpredictable and unreliable, but I remember a WoB that said that even though they were in denial about the impending Desolation, they still could subconsciously feel it’s approach and acted in response to it. Now, most of those responses may not have been constructive, but I could see one of the more scholarly Heralds being moved to write an incomplete, but helpful book about the Unmade. Yes, it is fairly new and Shallan mentioned that it was poorly received by the scholars, IIRC, which would make it it even more deliciously ironic if it was authored by a Herald. And if not, Hessi is one impressive researcher, whom I’d very much like to appear in the narrative.
Concerning spying on people through their soul flames – I am not sure that anything indicates that Shallan having Transformation had anything to do with her being able to read Drehy like a book. IIRC she was the only one described as standing in a soul flame. But even if it is the case, there are Fused with Transformation and it would be very much in Odium’s interest to post some in Dalinar’s soul flame 24/7. But personally, I believe that that’s how the intelligent spren, such as the Cryptics haunting Taravangian and those looking to bond, spy on people. Which means that the voidspren could very probably do it too. And speaking of Cryptics – according to Pattern bonding is a group effort with them, so I was surprised and disappointed not to see a boat with Ehlokar’s Cryptic’s support team arguing over the failure of their experiment when Our Heroes abruptly found themselves in Shadesmar.
And the last thing about soul flames – Ivory told Jasnah that they could locate “souls” of the Heralds in the Cognitive, but neither Jezrien’s nor the Fused flames seemed to stand out to Shallan’s admittedly very cursory examination. Oh, and I now believe that that’s how Nale became aware of the approximate whereabouts of incipient surge-binders – he had unbonded highspren in Shadesmar on the look-out for their somehow distinctive soul flames.
If water is represented by a firm surface in the Cognitive, what about the “souls” of all the items and living beings in it? How would removing something from water in the physical look in Shadesmar?
Regarding Drehy – why would he have lacked stormlight, unless he and Skar lost all their gems? Gems can be recharged during the highstorms, after all. And they didn’t have to fly the whole distance at once – they could have made several hops, flying for as long as the stormlight lasted, then walking until the next highstorm. There is also the question of whether Skar would have had access to his squire powers if Drehy bonded a spren. He is Kaladin’s squire, sure, but Szeth has been passed between his Skybreaker master and Nale without losing his Gravitation surge, and Skar has a deeper Connection to Drehy than Szeth had to either.
RogerPavelle @@@@@21:
Shallan’s actions here are one of the reasons why I firmly reject the (formerly?) popular theory that “Shallan” is the mask of a proper, weak Vorin maiden, while all the decisive action aspects of her personality and courage have been transferred to and sectioned in “Veil”, who is actually the “real” Shallan, despite all of her patently fake aspects! Ugh.
Goddessimho @@@@@ 14:
Yea, this is also where I finally realized that Azure was Vivenna, even though I knew that Vivenna was in the book. I didn’t figure out Vasher in WoR either – I pegged him for a Herald. I wonder what happened to her in Shadesmar to elicit such fear in her – while it was certainly dangerous to Our Heroes, it wasn’t the worst place most of them have been. And yea, Adolin is great – despite being completely out of his depth he keeps his head and takes charge of what he can so organically! I disagree that it is all training either – looking at it historically, while training and experience help, you can’t reliably teach leadership. Which is why so many of the heirs and pope/Emperor candidates who looked very promising floundered once they actually got the chair.
I know Vathah went up as Shallan’s squire; we see it in the the text. But Shallan worries about Red and Ishnah too. Does that mean they are Lightweaver squires as well or is she just worried about her followers? From the context of the thought it mightily implies that Shallan picked up a couple extra squires while we weren’t looking.
Speaking of squires, I’m sure that it works differently for each Order, and amongst the things that I am dying to know is just how each Order obtains their squires. And can one draw a spren of their own from a different Order while being a squire to another? Sigzil seems more Elsecaller than Windrunner yet he’s one of Kaladin’s squires. If he were to draw an Inkspren would he be able to to keep his Windrunner surges in addition to the surges his own spren would grant him?
@23 – There’s a lot more we need to learn about squires. Brandon has said that the Windrunner Resonance is “strength of squires.” That is to say, they can have loads of squires. I don’t think we know if other orders can have multiple squires, but we do know that they won’t have near as many as Windrunners.
I had never considered that Hessi was a Herald, but if she is, there’s also the possibility that she’s spreading misinformation since all of the Heralds (as discussed in a previous thread) seem to be subverting at least one of their ‘main’ traits.
Although I hope not, as it would be a bit unsatisfying from a narrative perspective to have all of the information be wrong. But there could still be some twist.
Evilmonkey @23 – I read it as Shallan being concerned for her people, not that she thought they’d all become squires. Also, yes, you can be a squire in one Order and then bond a spren from a different Order. It’s one of the questions we asked when the Stormcellar facebook group hit 1000 members, and we were a little surprised he gave us such a solid answer.
Tony@10: I had that exact thought about the name “Sea of Lost Lights”. I was going to post it myself, but that’s what I get for being a day late to the comments section…
EvilMonkey @23:
Yes, I was very relieved to have it confirmed that the squires can become Knights of a different Order, because I have been wondering since WoR about how the Bondsmiths were chosen pre-Recreance. Given their role in the organization, it made sense for most of them to come up from within, so that they could be intimately familiar with the culture, yet their Order is the one most likely not to have squires. Not to mention that _becoming_ a squire of a certain Order is fairly luck-based – i.e. catching the eye of a corresponding Radiant, them having a free spot in their entourage, etc. And being a Windrunner squire would have been a depressingly dead-end occupation for like 96% of them otherwise.
I don’t see somebody who already bonded their own spren being able to also moonlight as somebody else’s squire, though. IIRC, Sanderson is on record that being a member of an Order isn’t as professionally deterministic as might appear at the first glance, so Sigzil becoming a Windrunner scholar isn’t out of question. I also pegged him for an Elsecaller at first, but IIRC he really loves flying and is certainly very protective in his own way.
Austin @24:
I think that “strength of the squires” also applies to an individual squire’s powers. I.e. the Windrunner ones can use theirs better in some way. Nale telling Szeth that he now had access to Division only after the latter spoke the Third Oath and bonded a spren of his own makes me suspect that squires of the other Orders only have access to one of the surges.
Lisamarie @25:
I am sure that if the author of “Mythica” is a Herald, then there is some deliberate misinformation in it for the sake of versimilitude, which might, inadverently, result in something negative. For one, they’d be pretending to know less than they actually do. However, it would be just an unnecessary digression if the bulk of it wasn’t solid. In fact, from Our Heroes’ own experiences with the Unmade so far, quite a bit of that book already checks out.
@28 Isilel – What do you mean about 96% of Windrunner squires having a dead end occupation? Won’t most of them become Windrunners? It seems like they are the scouts and foot soldiers of the Radients. IIRC, they are the most numerous of the different Radiant classes.
So, re: the spren of the gateway’s soul – Only one was mentioned as having red coloring in Chapter 87 (“One was pitch black in coloring, the other red”), so I think either Syl may be wrong, or that the gateway spren use the “they” pronoun to describe their gender, similar to the Sibling Still, corrupting one gateway spren was obviously enough.
I also wonder about Sja-anat’s corrupting process: I wonder if her method of corruption is via seduction and manipulation, which ties into her ability to interact directly with humans using speech. I’m reminded of her interaction with Shallan, where it seems like she’s trying to seduce/convince Shallan into trusting her. Maybe her ability to corrupt requires her to convince her target to trust her and open themselves up… only to then become corrupted. So much we just don’t know! Which is why I am wary of trusting that Sja-anat wants to defect. It could all just be a long con, to corrupt our Radiants.
And as an Adolin fan, it was good to see him properly appreciated and not being presented as someone with little agency or free will. Adolin is incredibly capable, he’s a natural leader with tons of charisma, he has a natural understanding of what needs to be done and then goes right ahead and does it, but he doesn’t seek or want power for power’s sake. He’s got a good head on his shoulders.
@KiManiak: “Which is why I am wary of trusting that Sja-anat wants to defect. It could all just be a long con, to corrupt our Radiants.” Consider that Glys is her son, apparently. If you distrust her, where does that leave Renarin?
Carl@31 – “where does that leave Renarin?” I think that after the end of Oathbringer, the reader should still have a lot of questions about Renarin and Glys, right? Why did the Fused salute him at the Oathgate (right before the Alethi army appeared)? Why can he see visions of the future, which isn’t supposed to be of honor? Does he surgebind with Progression but voidbind Illumination?
And anyway, just because her son may not be scheming to deceive Team Radiant, that doesn’t mean that Sja-anat isn’t.
That transitioning map is fantastic! Thanks for that. I always love the maps, and this one is extra fun.
The last chapter before the interlude left out the part with the sea roiling with swarms of spren, and their howling voices. Honestly, a sea of beads and a black sky sounds quite tame next to the description of that chaos.
Big claw thing. Yeah, does seem like it is Ashartmane. It must have retreated here after it “fled”, I suppose. Yelig-nar and Sja-anat are still in the physical realm, but I am very curious to know what Sja-anat looks like in the cognitive realm.
I can only suppose that the little orange people and little green people crawling all over everything are painspren and corrupted painspren. The hands that manifest on the physical plane are said to be small, but I didn’t picture them as so tiny. Of course, if the Unmade can be huge on this side, I suppose size distortion can happen with other spren too.
I really have to appreciate Shallan this chapter. She gets things done. I really loved how resourceful she was in WoR, and I love seeing her like that again, getting things done here without being subsumed by an alter ego.
This is Adolin showing his strengths, too. I don’t think it a coincidence that Dalinar’s flashback chapter was right before it, with repeated comparisons of Adolin to Evi. I think he learned to be caring from his mother, just like he learned his combat competence from his father. He does show great leadership skills here. I love that he knows how to take care of Kaladin. The Alethi are a warlike people, so this sort of trauma can’t be unknown to them, but I’ve no idea how they as a people would normally treat it. New Dalanar strikes me as the sort of leader who would let his underlings take care of such things. Dalinar himself did freeze in combat in TWoK, though that was against routed Parshendi and he was quickly surrounded by his cobalt guard, so his side suffered no ill effects from losing their Shardbearer.
There is something very ironic in this statement. Shardblades are physically indestructible, but have been emotionally destroyed. Poor Kaladin. I am glad Adolin is there to protect him when he most needs it.
I read Oathbringer before I read Warbreaker, and back then I associated Azure’s greying hair with fatigue. Now I can’t remember if grey as well as white is fear. Fearspren did follow in the wake of our fleeing group, so I suppose it is possible, but I still feel like grey is the color of drained energy. Uh, what are Shardblades doing when they turn limbs grey? I feel like I know the answer to this but I’ve had the flu and my brain isn’t working properly. The only thing I can think of to explain what I mean is back in TWoK when Kaladin caused all those arrows to hit his shield; he used all the Stormlight he had, and then some, and turned his skin grey. He thought it was just shock and blood loss (which he was suffering from), but both Teft and Lopen noted his odd color, and they’ve seen plenty of other people suffering from shock and blood loss.
Re: The soul lights. Okay, the only thing I have to say about this is that I completely do not get how one can soulcast people. Are there also beads that represent the living human bodies? Seems unlikely, or Shallan would have scooped one up with all the people crowding around. But I could see a body separate from a mind agree to change form–“I’m meat!”, “But you could be fire.”, ” OK BBQ WHEEE!”– but I really can’t see those candle flame minds just switch identities in the snap of the metaphorical fingers.
@33 Nightheron
Little orange and green people are Oompa-Loompas ;)
Goddessimho @29:
How could most of the Windrunner squires ever become knights of the same Order pre-Recreance, when judging by Kaladin every third-Oath knight could have 40 or so squires and those of higher level might have had even more? The number of honorspren available for bonding would have been limited and increasing only slowly, not 40x every decade. Barring massive attrition in battle, only one of the knight’s squires could inherit their leader’s spren, the other 39 would have had to remain squires for life or retire from the Orders altogether – and lose the access to stormlight and surges, which is pretty rough, I imagine. Not that there is anything wrong with being a squire as a life career – Sanderson confirmed that it was quite normal. But as I said, dead-end.
It is very different for the new Radiants while the period of bonding expansion lasts, of course – Kal’s squires do indeed have a good shot at getting their own honorspren. But some of them might also fit better in a different Order and it is nice that they have the option to be picked by other Nahel spren.
KiManiak @30:
Maybe the black color of the other Gate spren just doesn’t let corruption manifest visually? After all, Re-Shepir is also black, without any hint of red. I am rather curious about the Gate spren – they seem significantly less sapient and more robotic than their Nahel counter-parts, despite the similarity of form. I am on the fence about Sja-Anat too.
Nightheron @33:
I thought that Azure just caught herself before her hair turned completely white from terror or maybe experience allows her to manage it better. So, it has just briefly gone grey. After all, she is a seasoned adventurer now.
An excellent question concerning soul-casting living entities. Hm…
Also, thinking about it some more, I can’t see how Shallan wouldn’t have noticed a Nahel bond, whilst standing in Drehy’s soul-flame. Nor how all of them could have missed a honorspren following him around still on the Cognitive side, if he was getting really close to bonding one. So, my conclusion is that he didn’t yet attract a spren of his own at that point and was just Kal’s squire. He probably still didn’t bond one by the end of OB, which is why he and Skar really needed Kal to come and fetch their party. But I fully expect him to be a Radiant in the next book.
@1 Austen
It wasn’t clear to me when I first read TWoK that Shallan didn’t travel physically to Shadesmar, because she fell into the sea of beads and nearly drowned. This part in OB makes it clear that she never left the physical realm back then, because Jasnah saved her by pushing her back into her soul light, which wouldn’t have been there if she wasn’t still actually in the physical realm. But I wasn’t sure what was actually happening until I read this chapter.
@3 Steven Hedge
I agree with you about Adolin’s leadership skills. He may have gotten his training from his father, but he has his own personality and strengths that I also think would inspire loyalty.
@6 AeronaGreenjoy
Just wanted to agree on that second map. I am doing my reread via audiobook, and the way Micheal Kramer reads the notes in an old, squeaky voice is downright hilarious.
@10 Tony
I like your explanation for the name of the Sea of Lost Lights. With war, groups of light would blink out all at once, rather than the more normal natural death pattern of winking out here and there spread over time.
@15 Isilel
Hmm. It has never occured to me that Hessi could be a herald. Perhaps she is a scholar that has access to a herald, so can run her research by them, gauge their reaction, and know whether her research is close to the mark or off. That would explain the gaps or mistakes, without them being intentional. I also really want to meet Hessi.
Re: Soul flames and mind reading. Now that you mention it, that does seem like a massive problem. And I wonder if Jasnah can do mind reading at a distance, since she has transportation too.
@19 David_Goldfarb
You are right, water does seem kind of weird on this side, being all of one piece and made of glass. I have no explanation to offer, only a few other notes about the oddities of Shadesmar. If everything is supposedly inverse, air seems to exist where the ground should be on the physical realm, and air doesn’t seem to exist in bead form either, but can also be soulcast readily. If one falls into the sea of beads, eventually one will hit solid ground, So the sky is solid ground and the ground is air.
@30 KiManiak
I think Sja-anat’s corrupting powers work only against spren, not humans. I can’t prove it, but it could be why she resorts to talking to a human. I think corrupting spren is her shtick, perhaps unique amongst the Unmade in this ability. Though she could be looking for a way to corrupt the Radiant spren.
@34 RogerPavelle
Well I am glad I wasn’t sipping my coffee when I read that.
Oh, and you have probably forever ruined my mental image of the little orange and green people. Great.
@Scáth Have you ever heard of Paul Feyerabend?
Please delete
In The Way Of Kings, in world book and actual book, wern’t the the lives of people compare to candle flames?