Welcome back to your refresher series on The Stormlight Archive! As we prepare for the release of Rhythm of War, we’ll be doing our best to help you remember who’s who and what’s what from the past. Last week, we did a Stormfather’s-eye view of the history of Roshar, from creation to a couple of centuries before the “current events.” This week, we’ll take a look at those pivotal characters, the Ten Heralds, beginning with their birth and going right up through what we know of their current condition and whereabouts.
Also, speculation, of course, but always appropriately marked. This time, the speculation is identified as “Theory Connection” in each of the Heralds’ descriptions. Corrections and additions—both to the information and the speculation—are welcome in the comments!
This series will contain spoilers for all of The Stormlight Archive published so far, and will occasionally draw on Words of Brandon for supporting information. I’ll do my best to avoid spoilers for other series, or to mark them if they really need to be included. I make no promises about the comment section; however, I’d request that if you want to include spoilers in a comment, please try to white-text them or at least tag them as spoilers so people can skip your comment.
Advent
As we mentioned last week, most of the Heralds were born on Ashyn prior to humanity’s migration to Roshar. The possible exception to this is Shalash, who might have been born after the move. In later legend and lore, Ashyn became known as the Tranquiline Halls, both their home and their heaven, whence they had been driven by the Voidbringers.
Oathpact
Sometime in their first few decades on Roshar, as conflict arose between the newly-arrived humans and the native singers, some of the singers turned to Odium for aid. In order to prevent humanity from being wiped out on this new home, ten of the humans went to Honor, seeking a means to prevent the Fused from destroying them. There are indications that Ishar, the most knowledgeable regarding theories of magic, was the one who figured out how it would work, if Honor would grant them the powers needed.
The exact mechanic of the Oathpact isn’t clear as yet. The effect, though, was that the ten humans, with the powers and the Honorblades given by Honor and the strength of their mutual vow, were able to bind the Fused singers to the planet Braize. So long as they all held together, this binding kept the Fused away from the humans; it also bound all of Odium’s Voidspren to the same planet, leaving Roshar to the guidance of Honor and Cultivation.
Buy the Book
Rhythm of War
As Ashyn became the Tranquiline Halls in legend, so Braize became Damnation—and it seems to be well-named. Though the Heralds were made Cognitive Shadows as part of the Oathpact, they still had bodies which could suffer torment, and of course the Fused and the Voidspren figured that out. With both Fused and Heralds bound to the same planet, it became a vicious game of hide-and-seek; once a Herald was found, the torture began. Helped by one another’s strength through the Oathpact, the Heralds withstood the torment for centuries before one of them broke and agreed to a return. Once that happened, all were freed; fortunately for humanity, the movement took time, and the Heralds were able to return first and begin preparing for what became known as a Desolation.
War descended upon the planet, with the Heralds leading the humans and the Fused leading the singers. (Human vs. singer for the most part, anyway; there were definitely times when humans joined Odium’s side. We don’t know if there were ever times when singers chose to join the humans against Odium.) When either a Fused or a Herald died, they returned to Braize to await the results; it seems (though we don’t have proof, that I know of) that a Desolation ended when all the Fused had been killed, whereupon victory was declared and any surviving Heralds returned to Braize to reinstate the imprisonment. Then the cycle began again.
This scenario played out again and again, for approximately three thousand years, until the Heralds could bear it no longer. During that time, each had been the one to break under torture except for Talenel. When at last there came a Desolation, hard on the heels of the previous, in which Taln was the only Herald to die, the other nine abandoned their Honorblades and their vows, hoping that he could hold out long enough to make it all go away (or something—I don’t think they had much of a goal in mind, other than not going back to Braize at any cost).
From that point on, though the Heralds continued to be of great significance to most of the human populations of Roshar, they largely vanished from active involvement in history for the next 4500 years. Let’s take a look at the individuals: what we know of their history, their place in tradition, and their current identity.
Individual Heralds
We’ll take them in the “Vorin Tradition” order, using the numbering system based on their names. If you’re looking closely, you’ll notice that the numbers are also used in the calendar system, and as the names of the gas planets. Each Herald has a number of different concepts associated with them; the two I’ll primarily focus on here are their role and their divine attributes. Please note that these are not necessarily characteristics of the individual, but are traditional Vorin associations.
Right up front, I’m going to explain one of my current not-too-loony theories regarding the Heralds, so I can make comments about it regarding the individuals.
He seemed so cold. Like a shadow caused by heat and light falling on someone honorable and true, casting this black imitation behind.
This is from the Prelude to The Stormlight Archive; Kalak is observing Jezrien as he’s explaining the plan to leave their Honorblades behind and let Talenel bear the burden of the Oathpact alone. At the time, it seemed highly symbolic, but… of what? In retrospect, it seems to me quite possible that we can see the nine Heralds who abandoned the Oathpact becoming the opposite of what they once represented.
Jezrien
Jezrien, Vorin name Jezerezeh
Role: the King; also known as the Herald of Kings
Divine Attributes: Protecting, Leading
Jezrien is (shockingly enough) associated with the number Jes, or one. In various Rosharan traditions, he is also called Yaezir and Yaysi During the Heraldic Epochs, he looked to be a man “barely into his thirtieth year,” regal, with a neatly trimmed, short black beard. He is darker-skinned than most Alethi, but not enough that anyone thinks of him as Makabaki. Sanderson has said that until Aharietiam, the Heralds continued to look the way they had when they began the Oathpact, which would imply that he was thirty — but we also know that his daughter is one of the Heralds. I suppose it’s just possible that he fathered a child at 14, and allowed his 15-year-old daughter to become a Herald… but I think it’s more likely that he simply looked younger than his actual age. I sure hope so, anyway.
Jezrien was apparently an actual king at the time of the Oathpact, based on Kalak’s thoughts of him during the Prelude. The powers he received from Honor granted him control of Adhesion (controlling pressure and vacuum) and Gravitation (gravity’s effect on or by an object); those granted the same powers by the spren as Knights Radiant would be called Windrunners. I would note that we haven’t yet observed any control of Adhesion that seems directly connected to using a vacuum, so I’m really curious about what that might look like!
Current Events: At some unknown point, Jezrien gravitated to Kholinar. We first see him in Dalinar’s flashback, eight years ago, as the beggar Ahu in the Beggars’ Porch behind the Kholin palace. There, and later in Szeth’s Prologue view, he appears as an older man with a long gray and black beard. He doesn’t make much sense, though he clearly (to us) remembers his early years on Roshar as well as the torture on Braize.
He is now dead, murdered by Moash with some kind of special knife that … well, we’re not sure what it did. Sucked in his Investiture? His soul? In any case, it removed him from the remains of the Oathpact, and he seems to be the kind of dead that does not involve returning to Braize. We can only hope that his soul is free to go Beyond, now.
Theory Connection: Jezrien, the King, became the crazy beggar; the man who represented Protecting and Leading ended his days cowering and questioning.
Nale
Nale, Vorin name Nalan
Role: the Judge, also known as the Herald of Justice
Divine Attributes: Just, Confident
Nalan is associated with the number Nan, or two. He is also known as Nin or Nakku in other traditions. He is sufficiently dark-skinned that most who see him assume he is of Makabaki origin. His primary distinguishing feature is a pale crescent-shaped birthmark on his cheek. We know nothing of his life before the Oathpact.
The powers he received, later held by the order of Skybreakers, allowed him to manipulate Gravitation (the effect of gravity on or by an object) and Division (called the surge of destruction and decay). While we know much of what a Skybreaker can do with Gravitation, we have not yet seen Division being used much. The sole demonstration will be addressed under the next Herald.
We don’t know exactly when it happened, but Nale is the only Herald to formally join an order of Knights Radiant, becoming a Skybreaker himself. On a guess, this would have been after Aharietiam; for certain, though, it was before the Recreance. Beginning some time after the Recreance, he led the Skybreakers in an effort to ensure that no more Radiants would arise. His method seems to have involved a network of information which would tell him if anyone, anywhere in the world, was doing odd things that might indicate a nascent Radiant. He would then find the person, research their life, and find some crime of which to accuse them. As judge, jury, and executioner, he would kill them—but always in accordance with some law of the land, however obscure or outdated it might be. Also, at some point he retrieved the Honorblade he had left behind after the Last Desolation; this event is recent enough that the Shin have drawings of it, but long enough that Szeth considers it “long ago.”
Current Events: By the time we observe this behavior, he clearly pays little attention to law-breaking or justice in general; he is concerned only with finding and destroying rising Knights Radiant. We see him kill Ym, a gentle and generous cobbler somewhere in Iri, for the 40-years-past “crime” of having been paid to deliver a bottle of wine which was, unbeknownst to him, poisoned; the person who received the wine died, and so Nale kills the cobbler for being “an accessory to murder.” He pursues Lift in Azir, obtaining a leave of execution against her for “thieving, trespassing in the Prime’s palace, and interrupting a holy conclave in session”—though the viziers are appalled that he would execute her for such things. Later, he sends minions to execute a woman who runs an orphanage in Yeddaw, where (as always) he obtained the proper paperwork to execute her for money laundering; when his minions take on the wrong person (in more ways than one!) he comes to do the job himself.
This is his turning point, as Lift makes him face the fact that he has failed in his stated objective of preventing further Desolations. He leaves off trying to kill Radiants, and goes to consult with Ishar as to the next step. During the battle of Thaylen City, he reveals that he and the rest of the Skybreakers will obey the laws of the Fused, though he intends to return to Szeth and train him in the use of Division.
Theory Connection: Nalan, the Judge, became unjust, twisting the law to his own ends and ignoring any injustice that didn’t suit his purposes; the man who represented justice and confidence realizes that he has been deeply unjust, has no idea what to do, and breaks down in tears.
Chanarach
Chanarach, Vorin name Chanaranach
Role: the Guard
Divine Attributes: Brave, Obedient
Chanarach, often known as Chana, is associated with the number Chach, or three. We know a total of nothing about her appearance or her history. Vorin tradition portrays her as a young woman, but we have no way of knowing whether that’s based on any truth.
As a Herald, her Surges were Division (division and decay) and Abrasion (friction). The order of Dustbringers use these same powers, and so we have one single example of a Dusbringer using Division: In Oathbringer chapter 107, Malata uses Division to burn designs into a wooden tabletop, demonstrating detailed control of the flame she uses.
Current Events: Unknown
Theory Connection: Back in June 2017, I suggested that perhaps the assassin Liss (Words of Radiance Prologue) is Chana. While this is not confirmed, Peter Ahlstrom did say that Chana had been seen on screen by at least one character at least one time in the first two books. While I suspect that my suggestion was initially brought on by the idea that the Guard would be good with any kind of a blade, the theory tie-in is that idea of opposites: the Guard has become an assassin, and the woman who represented bravery and obedience now hides her identity and sells her skills to the highest bidder. Note that if this is the case, we would have a description: she “could have been Alethi. Or Veden. Or Bav. Depending on which part of her accent she chose to emphasize. Long dark hair, worn loose, and a plump, attractive figure made her distinctive in all the right ways.” Now I guess we’ll have to wait and see.
Vedel
Vedel, Vorin name Vedeledev
Role: the Healer
Divine Attributes: Loving, Healing
Vedel, associated with the number Vev or four, is another Herald about whom very little is known. She apparently was a very skilled healer, since her first task on returning from Braize was always to train the surgeons in healing arts. For reasons we don’t know, “golden keys” are part of her traditional imagery. The only thing we know of her appearance is that modern Rosharans would see her as Alethi. While we do have a (gorgeous!) painting of her, we should remember that this is intended to be “in-world art” and is more a portrayal of Vorin tradition than the actual person.
Her Heraldic powers, like the Edgedancers who follow her, are manipulation of Abrasion (friction, either increased or decreased) and Progression (growth, healing, regrowth).
Current Events: Unknown
Theory Connection: Taravangian, having concluded that his ardent Dova must be a Herald because she knows too many things she shouldn’t, believes her to be Battar. According to my theory, Vedel is the more probable candidate: the Healer helps kill, and the woman who represents loving and healing is draining people’s lives for the sake of a little piece of information they might be able to provide. Ironically, the people being murdered for the death rattles are “the terminally sick, the forgotten, and the lowly”—the very people the Edgedancers most seek to aid.
Pailiah
Pailiah, Vorin name Pailiah
Role: the Scholar
Divine Attributes: Learned, Giving
Pailiah, her actual given name, is also nicknamed Pali, and is associated with the number Palah, or five. Like the previous two, very little is known about her past or her appearance. She likely was really a scholar, but that’s about all we can say. The Palanaeum in Kharbranth, the greatest library on Roshar, is named for her.
As a Herald, she was able to manipulate Progression (growth, healing, and regrowth) and Illumination (light, sound, various wavelengths), the skills later held by the Truthwatchers. While we know the Truthwatchers can heal much like the Edgedancers can, we don’t yet have enough information to know whether Illumination works the same for the Truthwatchers and the Lightweavers.
Current Events: Uncertain. At one point Sanderson had stated that the elderly ardent seen by Shallan in the lower levels of the Palanaeum was actually Pailiah herself:
She didn’t look in Shallan’s direction as she turned between two rows of shelves, her lantern’s light shining out through the spaces between the books. Lit that way—with her figure hidden but the light streaming between the shelves—it looked as if one of the Heralds themselves were walking through the stacks.
That certainly seems to have been Significant, right? Later on, however, Sanderson walked back that confirmation, and would only say that there was a Herald in close proximity to Taravangian, but not one regularly seen on screen. (So, Adrotagia, Mrall, and Maben are ruled out, I guess?) He also said that there had been other Heralds around him in the past, but only one directly influencing him right now. This is pretty sketchy, but it’s possible that Pailaih really is the ardent in the library, and is just not influencing or interacting with Taravangian any more, leaving the “only one” as Dova. Shaky ground, certainly.
Theory Connection: I’m not sure Pali fits into my theory at this point. If she really is the ardent, that would seem consistent with her role as Scholar, rather than the opposite, so… I dunno? On the other hand, an anti-scholar in the Palanaeum messing with the books could be a Thing, maybe. This one is really too dodgy to play.
Shalash
Shalash, Vorin name Shalash
Role: the Artist, also called the Herald of Beauty
Divine Attributes: Creative, Honest
Shalash, again her real name, is commonly nicknamed Ash, and is associated with the number Shash, or six. She is the youngest of the Heralds, and unlike the others may have been born after the human flight to Roshar. She is tall and lean, with dark skin and long black hair; her eyes are a violet so pale as to be nearly white, and are rounder like the Shin rather than having the usual Rosharan epicanthic fold. Traditional Vorin iconography depicts her with a brush and a mask (or more than one) as symbols of creativity.
She is also Jezrien’s daughter, and therefore a princess by birth. Given that Jezrien appears to be only about thirty—though as mentioned above, he had to be older than that—I can’t help wondering how old she actually was when she took up the Oathpact. Twenty, maybe? Younger? In the scenes where her appearance is addressed, she is never presented as being a girl; she’s always a woman. So… probably not much younger than twenty, in any case. Also, probably not much older, unless Jezrien was fathering children at a very young age. (Okay, I also have to wonder what kind of father would condemn his daughter to this kind of cycle, but I don’t suppose they really knew what they were getting into.) There is a possible indication of romantic involvement between Ash and Taln, primarily seen in her thoughts when she finally finds Taln in Thaylen City:
Ash looked at his fingers, thick and callused. Thousands of years could come and pass, and she could lose lifetimes to the dream, but those hands … she’d never forget those hands.
Call me a hopeless romantic, but that totally screams Relationship to me.
Ash’s Heraldic abilities grant manipulation of Illumination (light, sound, various wavelengths) and Transformation (soulcasting). As these are also used by Lightweavers, we’ve seen a fair amount of the former, and some of the latter, demonstrated in the books already.
Current Events: Our first look at Ash came in the seventh Interlude in The Way of Kings, in which one of her servants nervously accompanies her on a mission to destroy artwork in the home of a high Emuli sage. While it’s not really clear in that Interlude precisely which art she’s after, it’s spelled out more clearly as the books progress, and in an Oathbringer Interlude, she is lured into action by Mraize the Ghostblood, who acquired an extremely famous painting of her in an effort to entrap her. We also get her own thoughts later in Oathbringer. She doesn’t just go around randomly destroying art: she specifically destroys any depictions of herself, objecting strenuously to being revered, worshiped, sworn by, or in any other way honored. It’s clear that she feels horribly guilty about breaking the Oathpact, and equally or more guilty about abandoning Taln to bear the torment alone.
At the end of Oathbringer, she is seen attempting to get him out of Thaylen City, intending to find Ishar and see if he’d know what to do. Her plans are short-circuited by the murder of her father; enough of the Oathpact remains that they can still feel one another to some extent, and she recognizes this death as different from the past. It is such a shock to her that she passes out—but not before she recognizes Hoid’s drawing style in the highly accurate sketch of herself that Jasnah is holding.
Due to this recognition, it is probable that the two Heralds were brought back to Urithiru with the Alethi after things settled down.
Theory Connection: Fairly obviously, the Artist has turned to the destruction of art (very specific art); the woman who represented creativity and honesty now spends her time seeking and destroying any artwork representing herself as a Herald, and she wears any number of disguises to get into the places she hears of those artworks existing.
Battar
Battar, Vorin name Battah
Role: the Counselor
Divine Attributes: Wise, Careful
And once again, we know very little about this Herald. Associated with the number Betab, or seven, we have no history beyond what is commonly known about the Heralds as a group. We could guess that she was one of Jezrien’s close council, but that would just be guessing.
As a Herald, she was given the Surges of Transformation (soulcasting) and Transportation (motion and realmatic transition). From observing Jasnah, we can see how the order of Elsecallers use these surges… at least to some extent. While Soulcasting was most commonly used in the books to create food or form protective stone buildings and walls, Jasnah demonstrated multiple wartime uses for someone who didn’t need a fabrial: turning people to various substances, making stone steps out of air, and even making a solid metal city wall from air. She may have also demonstrated “motion” during the Thaylen City battle, the way she was flinging soldiers around—or that might have just been the enhanced strength of “live” Shardplate.
Current Events: Taravangian has concluded that his ardent Dova, who warned them of the coming Desolation, is actually the Herald Battar. It’s possible he’s correct, or it’s possible she’s a different Herald than he thinks.
Theory Connection: If Battar is indeed disguised as Dova, the connection would be similar to Vedel but IMO a little less stark. As Counselor, she might still be giving counsel, but this time not in a way that actively protects humanity as a whole. Alternatively (since we don’t know much of Dova’s actions) she may be trying to avoid giving any counsel, and hides in the hospital collecting death rattles for Taravangian. I don’t really have a lot of support for this one, but that’s mostly because we know so little about either Battar or Dova.
Kalak
Kalak, Vorin name Kelek
Role: the Maker
Divine Attributes: Resolute, Builder
Kalak, also called Kelek, Kellai, and sometimes credited with being the Stormfather, is associated with the number Kak, or eight. Once again, the palindromic name is actually his given name; it seems that the Vorins had a solid source for their fascination with symmetry. There is solid evidence that the second man seen with Elhokar at the Prologue treaty feast is Kalak: when Jasnah overhears them, they speak as though they belong to the same small group, the conversation supports the idea that they are Heralds, and we know (that crescent birthmark!) that Nale is one of the two. If they are both Heralds, the second has to be Kalak, since we know where all the other men are.
Going with that assumption, then, he is described as a “thinner, Alethi-looking man” by Szeth; Jasnah merely describes him as “the shorter of the two men—he could have been Alethi.” (Oddly enough, I have to force myself to remember that this likely means black hair; for some reason I always picture him as sandy-haired, and I can only blame it on the chapter icons.) Like Chana, he is generally depicted as quite young but is, at the very least, older than Shalash. Which is not to say that they aren’t closer to her age than others; just because they were born on Ashyn doesn’t mean they were adults when they moved. However, neither Szeth nor Jasnah notes any youthful appearance, so it’s entirely possible that he was more thirty-something than twenty-something when he joined the Oathpact.
He seems to be a nervous sort, at least in the conversation Jasnah overheard. He worries that Ash is getting worse, and that he thinks he’s getting worse. Even more, he worries that “that creature carries my lord’s own Blade.” I can only assume he is referring to Szeth carrying Jezrien’s Honorblade, and that he can sense its presence through the Oathpact. (Which makes me wonder… do they actually know that Jezrien is over there at the Beggars’ Feast? We haven’t seen much of their movement that night, other than sitting with Elhokar and talking in the hallway. I guess we have two more Prologues to go; maybe we’ll learn more about them.)
If my assumption is correct, it’s certainly interesting that he refers to Jezrien as “my lord.” Is that just an artifact of Jezrien having been his king originally, and having continued leadership among the Heralds? Or is it something more personal? Kalak’s role is “the Maker,” but we have little idea what that’s supposed to mean. The one clue we have is that, in his litany of return, Talenel says that “Kalak will teach you to cast bronze, if you have forgotten this” and goes on to talk about casting vs. forging weapons. This seems to imply that Kalak was skilled in metalworking, though “blacksmith” doesn’t sound quite right for the group of people the Stormfather implies were involved in the Oathpact.
As to his Heraldic abilities… we don’t know much. He held the Surges Transportation (motion and realmatic transition) and Cohesion (strong axial interconnection), as do the Willshapers who will follow him. Presumably he was able to shift between realms with relative facility, though we haven’t seen that happening yet. Cohesion is demonstrated in one of Dalinar’s visions (Oathbringer, Chapter 38) when a Stoneward reshapes the stone of a steep cliff to provide handholds and steps for Dalinar’s men to escape. (Note that there is a known continuity error in this passage: the Stormfather tells Dalinar that the Surge which changed the stone was the other one he could learn, but a Bondsmith doesn’t use Cohesion.)
Current Events: As we saw above, at the time of the treaty feast Kalak was hanging out with Nale. We don’t know if that was a short-term or long-term thing, but by the time we see Nale in action again (the Ym Interlude) Kalak doesn’t seem to be with him. We don’t have any clues as to where he is these days.
Theory Connection: To truly fit the pattern, the Maker ought to be going around breaking things, and we see no evidence of that. However, the opposite of the attribute “Resolute” is certainly demonstrated—he seems worried, uncertain, and… well, irresolute.
Talenel
Talenel, Vorin name Talenelat
Role: the Soldier, also known as the Herald of War
Divine Attributes: Dependable, Resourceful
Associated with the number Tanat, or nine, Talenel is more frequently called by his nickname Taln. He is also known as Stonesinew, which might be linked to the Stonewards but more probably is an acknowledgement of his great strength in battle. In Vorin tradition, he is also called The Bearer of Agonies—though they little know how fully he earned that title. He is described as a large man, having dark skin, dark hair, and dark eyes; Shallan thinks that his “hulking” arms were those of either a laborer or a soldier.
We’re not sure how Taln joined the Oathpact; both the Stormfather and Shalash state that he wasn’t intended to have been part of it. Stormfather says of him, THE ONE WHO WASN’T MEANT TO HAVE JOINED THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE, THE ONE WHO WAS NOT A KING, SCHOLAR, OR GENERAL. Shalash calls him, “A king, for all the fact that he’d never worn a crown. He was the one of the ten who was never supposed to have borne their burden.” Both, then, point out that despite not having been part of the original plan, he was the one who bore the burden alone for 4,500 years. Was Taln a last-minute replacement for some general who chickened out? We probably won’t know until we get to book eight or nine, but I’m really curious about this.
For the first three thousand years or so of the Oathpact, Taln was the only Herald who never gave in to the torment and allowed the Fused to escape Braize. He also fought extremely well during Desolations; Kalak thinks that Taln had a tendency to pick hopeless battles, and win them. He also had a tendency to die in the process, which is probably why the other Heralds felt so safe in assuming that he would be the only one back on Braize when they walked away from the Oathpact. It was, in a sense, a good strategy—brutal and cowardly though it was, it worked out far better for humanity than having the rest of them go back and flood the world with Fused again in a couple of months. (Given their state of mind, it’s reasonably certain that, had any/all of the other Heralds returned to Braize that last time, they would have broken instantly, and Rosharan humans would not have been able to withstand a new Desolation.)
Talenel, and the Stonewards modeled after him, controlled the Surges of Cohesion (strong axial interconnection) and Tension (soft axial interconnection). As seen above, Cohesion can manipulate stone like putty, making it take any desired shape. (I strongly suspect that Cohesion was used in forming Urithiru, though who used it is still a question.) We’re not entirely sure how Tension is used by a Stoneward, but I once heard Sanderson describe it with the example of making a fabric rigid like steel.
Current Events: After 4500 years of torment, Talenel finally broke and let the Fused begin to return. He appeared on Roshar just outside the gates of Kholinar, speaking perfect Alethi and warning them that a new Desolation was upon them. He collapsed, and since that time has mostly repeated his litany of “what to do at the beginning of a Desolation;” he has had only a few lucid moments that we know. When Shallan began a Lightweaving in his presence, he snapped into awareness for a minute, recognizing her as “one of Ishar’s Knights,” but then relapsing into his repetitive mumbling again.
When Shalash found him in Thaylen City, he was completely unaware of her identity, until Dalinar summons Honor’s Perpendicularity. For that brief time, he knows her, and is able to ask questions. While Ash is busy feeling guilty over abandoning him, wanting him to hate her as she deserves, she is stunned to hear him thank her. He views it as a great gift, that the others allowed him to keep the Oathpact in place alone and grant humanity time to truly recover from the Desolations and advance to a place where they have a chance of actually withstanding Odium’s forces. In a way, you’d think it was pretty arrogant of him to point out that he was the only one who could withstand the torment—except that he doesn’t seem to think of himself at all, and he’s just incredibly proud of the other Heralds for making a decision that gave humanity their best chance. Also, even if it were arrogant, it’s absolutely true, so… yeah. Taln is just too amazing. Too good for this world.
Theory Connection: Taln has no connection to this theory, because he didn’t go mad in the way the other Heralds did. Even now, though his mind seems to be almost broken and he spends most of his time mumbling the same thing, he’s not insane the way the others are. They spent 4500 years living with guilt on top of 3000 years of torture, and it affected them differently than straight-up withstanding torture for 7500 years. Um… Right.
Ishar
Ishar, Vorin name Ishi
Role: the Priest, also known as the Herald of Luck
Divine Attributes: Pious, Guiding
Ishar’s Vorin name and his number are the same: Ishi, or ten. (They don’t seem to have a zero. Hmm. Given where they are in development, I’m thinking they’d have to have zero by now, wouldn’t they? Maybe not; its actually a fairly advanced mathematical concept. Or maybe they just don’t use the traditional numbering to represent zero.) He’s also known as Ishu and Tashi in some parts of the world. He was older than most/all of the others at the inception of the Oathpact, and is generally depicted as an older man with a full beard. Sanderson has said that to modern Rosharans, he would probably appear to be Shin—which probably means his eyes are rounder than the others. (I’m beginning to think that the epicanthic fold is not merely an evolved trait due to the Rosharan climate, though that’s logically part of its predominance. Why would Ishar and Shalash have noticeably rounder eyes than the others?)
In any case, Ishar is the one who came up with the idea for the Oathpact and figured out how to make it work. Whether he was actually a priest or not, he was definitely the one who understood the functioning of Investiture the best. There are implications, accurate or not, that he may also have been instrumental in whatever arrangement made it possible for Honor and Cultivation to bind Odium to the planet Braize and limit his influence to the Rosharan system; Stormfather tells Dalinar that “Before he was Herald of Luck, they called him Binder of Gods.”
His powers, like those of the Bondsmiths, are Tension (soft axial connection) and Adhesion (pressure and vacuum), but their use by a Bondsmith is vastly different than by a Stoneward or a Windrunner. In fact, Stormfather calls Adhesion by a different name, which we know as a spiritual element in the Cosmere: he calls it Connection. I’ll just leave that there for you to think about.
Current Events: Ishar is currently suffering quite the delusions. He has taken the leadership of the nation Tukar, has named himself their god-priest, and calls himself “Tezim the Great, last and first man, Herald of Heralds and bearer of the Oathpact.” I guess if you’re going to have delusions, you might as well go for the really satisfying ones, right? He seems to have convinced the Tukari that he is a god, anyway, and given his background it seems possible that he’s found a way to access some kind of powers despite leaving his Honorblade with the rest.
Theory Connection: The Priest, normally a servant or representative of a god, now calls himself a god; the man who represented piety and spiritual guidance now defies the actual gods and claims their authority for himself.
Okay, wow. That’s a lot. Again. I probably left out something important, so bring it up in the comments and we’ll talk about it! Thanks for your patience!!
Alice is a Sanderson Beta-Reader, mega-fan, and occasional theory-crafter. She takes great pride in the moment at Emerald City Comic Con 2018 when, in conversation about some disputed fan interpretation of a scene, Sanderson said, “You’re right. Just tell them I said, ‘Alice is always right.’” She is also an administrator of two Facebook fan groups: The Stormlight Archive (spoilers allowed for Stormlight books only; everything else has to be spoiler-tagged) and the Storm Cellar (Sanderson fans loosely centered around the Tor rereads, spoilers for all Sanderson books allowed).
Thanks for this! I mostly listened to this series, which I think made it harder to catch the appearances of the heralds and Hoid, so this is a big help to gather all of the information together
This is really well done, Alice! Thanks for all the hard work that this clearly required!
This seems a good place to throw in my theory that Ishar or Ishi was/is secretly Melishi. (Μel’Ishi’) the bondsmith that turned the Parshendi into slaves. I also believe he was at that time and is still now bound to the Sibling and his dereliction of his oaths is why the Sibling slumbers. I know that WOB says Nale is the only one known to have joined his own order but I think he is being coy in the sense that it is not known to others that Ishar joined his order.
You are the best, Alice! Well done.
I’m curious about how it worked over there on Braize. Were the Heralds hiding out at various places on the planet and the Fused searched them out? I keep imagining the future hellscape from the first Terminator movie. And did Taln suffer nearly 4,500 years straight of torture? Or where there times that he escaped and they had to hunt him down again? I can’t imagine how anyone could withstand 4,500 years of torture. It boggles my mind.
I can’t remember which one did Moash at the end of Oathbringer?
Speculation you say? I have some for you.
What if the Honorblades are pieces of the heralds themselves? We know they aren’t spren (we do know that right?) and we know they aren’t sentient like the two shard-like blades from Nalthis (or one of them would be talking to Bridge 4 all the time and someone would have mentioned it). We know that the Heralds are cognitive shadows. The honorblades have to be made from something, and the most similar thing we’ve seen is the way Spren do it, by being pulled from the Cognitive realm and manifesting physically. The Nalthis blades are made primarily from Investiture (breath) and can’t be dismissed the way Shardblades can, so we can assume that Honor didn’t follow a similar route.
I’m thinking that the honorblades are possibly the Heralds’ actual physical bodies. Yes that’s stupid. I am very aware. Hear me out! The oathpact turned ten people into ten cognitive shadows. Maybe Honor did this by taking each body away and using it to create the blades, binding the ten minds and souls to them to create ten undying Heralds. The Honorblades hide in the Spiritual realm until summoned, and thus aren’t traceable from the cognitive realm (yes this theory is getting away from me very quickly), which would also mean that the blades would have no trouble following the Heralds to Braize between desolations. But if we’re talking about the Spiritual realm…
I have another theory that they’re the souls of the Heralds – in fact, that each blade is made from the combined souls of two heralds. Suppose that Honor took the ten volunteers, broke each from their soul and shattered the souls to forge the Honorblades. Breaking apart souls like that could be the way in which individuals who had no access to investiture were given access to Surges – in fact, it makes the most sense within this pile of wild spaghettified speculation that giving the surges is what shatters the soul, which then get recombined into ten Ideals who are now cognitive shadows, slightly different people than the ten who went into the Oathpact but still with the ten original minds. Breaking the people this way is also kind of reminiscent of how Nahel bonds are formed, but instead of bonding to Spren the ten Heralds were bonded to each other, forming the Oathpact.
If access to the surges becomes part of the Soul, which becomes the Honorblade, it makes (a kind of) sense that anyone who uses the blade can then access those Surges. That also works for any method in which the investiture gets tied to the Honorblade but these two are my main ideas for how the blades actually get made as part of the Oathpact, assuming that both the blades and the pact were formed at the same time, which seems obvious but are we sure?
Shouldn’t there be Herald spren? The way people imagine heralds and constantly pray to them makes me think that spren should have developed.
@@@@@ 7. Jay : That would make sense, I think, especially with how Vorin tradition tries to guide worship and people’s impressions of the Heralds. Maybe the heralds are those Spren? Maybe that’s how Taln was added to them when he wasn’t supposed to be. Maybe there were nine-ish people who were really leading in various areas of life before the start of the cycle of Desolations and the Oathpact: a King, a respected Scholar, an especially amazing Artist, etc., and the adoration of so many began to invest in them attributes. Once there was open fighting those nine got together and planned the Oathpact, not knowing that as the war progressed a Soldier was on the rise and had gained very similar adoration among the humans, or maybe thinking that Chana as the Guard was embodying the wartime attention of the people. They executed the Oathpact and then there were ten instead of the nine they expected. I like it!
This post is amazing thank you so much for your time to write it!
We need more of Taln, thanks to the Almighty that he’s now in really good hands by the end of oathbringer. 4500 years of agony and he thanks Ash…
Also, I have the theory that he’s part dawnsinger (like a herdazian cause “the nails”) that’s why he’s called “the one who wasn’t meant to have joined them” just imagine that…
Good article, but you have a minor error. Nale isn’t stated to be the only Herald to join an order, but rather the only Herald to join his own order.
I’m curious about the assertion that the Stormfather telling Dalinar he can also use the surge which shaped the stone is a continuity error. Bondsmiths have the surge of Tension, which alters the stiffness of an object. Stonewards have Tension and Cohesion, which alters objects at a molecular level, giving them the ability to shape matter like clay. Could the shaping of stone in the vision by a stoneward be a combination of Tension and Cohesion? It could be argued that tension allows you to make flexible things rigid, but also make rigid things flexible to shape the material.
Therefore the Stormfather would be saying that Dalinar will be able to use Tension one day. He doesn’t say that Dalinar will be able to shape stone like a stoneward, just that the surge is available to him, and we know due to resonance the surge will express itself differently for a bondsmith vs a stoneward.
@@@@@ 7 Jay – There’s something I read somewhere (very authoritative, I know) that suggested the Cognitive Realm near Roshar had changed since the Recreance. Obviously the massive spren die-off helped, but what if that was part of the problem that caused the Recreance? New spren, imbued with mistaken impressions and a burning need to lead, created or revamped the spren societies, which leads now to the “warlike” honorspren, and the “lying” Cryptics, and etc.
Piling one crazy atop another, what if they were spren leaders until the real ones went crazy, causing the slide? And just maybe uniting them with their Heralds will help somehow? (Or — crap. What if Nale did already? Can’t say it was helpful if so.)
@11 Kernath – Peter said here that the Stormfather’s statement is a continuity error.
As for the questions in the article about the number zero, Roshar has developed the concept of zero, or at least they have a glyph for it; the Coppermind has it and the other numerical glyphs here. Renarin also draws a series of zeros for the final day of his countdown during the Battle of Narak and Adrotagia scores five hundred days of Taravangian’s tests on a scale from zero to ten, when estimating the odds he’ll have another day like the one he created the Diagram on. There’s also Pattern’s infamous reference to division by zero.
Thanks for pulling all this info together into a concise reference piece, Alice!
Of course it had to be the soldier who heroically held out through sheer determination.
Alethi society already has a bad case of soldier-worship, and having the one true Herald be the Soldier won’t help at all. I would have preferred a surprise, such as the Artist or the Healer, rather than the soldier.
First of all, thank you all for reading, and for the encouragement & interaction! To details…
John @3 – Well… since we only have Nale’s word for it that he’s the only one to join his own order, I suppose it’s possible. I guess we’ll have to RAFO. On the name similarity, though, it’s a very common naming convention to use part of a Herald’s name when naming children, particularly in the Vorin traditions. Shallan is derived from Shalash, for example, and Kaladin from Kalak.
Austin @@.-@ – Wonder along with me… :D It’s fairly clear in the text, iirc, that when they all returned to Braize, the Heralds would hide as long as they could while the Fused would search. It may even have taken some time for the Fused to recover enough to do any serious looking. It’s also quite possible (I don’t see why not!) that they had the entire planet to hide in; we don’t actually know whether they all returned to the same place or any of that. I doubt we’ll get to know much of the detail until we get to Shalash’s and Taln’s books (8 and 9 of the SA, I think?), but in the meantime there are many, many questions.
Oafgeek @6 – Very interesting speculation! I’m not confident enough in the theoretical applications of realmatics and Investiture to even guess whether it’s valid! I’ll leave that to people like jofwu, Argent, etc. (Heh. There’s a reason I’m an engineer and not a physicist!)
Jay @7 (& oafgeek @8) – I’m not sure if that would work. The Heralds are/were actual beings, rather than personified concepts, so they already have a Cognitive presence. Again, that would be a question for the theoretical realmaticists! (Yeah, I just made that up, but it really ought to be a thing.)
Ithor @9 – I LOVE Taln, and I really, really hope they can put him back together again. His moment of lucidity with Ash in Oathbringer was heartbreaking in all the right ways, and I want him healed. Unfortunately, I don’t think the singer idea would work, since he was born on Ashyn before the migration to Roshar. Cool idea, though.
Anon @10 – Yes and no. Someone asked Brandon about that:
There’s some question as to the exact intent of the question, but I read the answer as being that no, none of the other Heralds have joined any Knight Radiant order. (Yet… Based on other WoBs, a number of people theorize that Shalash will eventually become a Dustbringer.)
Stargazer @13 – You’re right, of course. They do have zero, and I’d have remembered that if I’d taken the time to think about it harder! That’s what I get for inserting random parenthetical questions as they occur to me! :D (Also, thanks for the link.)
Ways @14 – You’re welcome. Anything, for you! ;-)
dptullos @15 – Well, it’s Brandon’s story. Perhaps we can allow him to leave one trope undestroyed? OTOH, it’s entirely possible that a long-buried reason for the lofty Vorin view of soldiers is actually the strength of the one who withstood everything. Who’s to say that the Heralds didn’t spread some word about how heroic Taln was, and encourage that view?
How about this theory: Hoid is known to have some sort of “issue” with what is happening and he is gathering as much of the various surges that he is able. What if HE was the one Taln replaced and that is why he is constantly skulking about and on an unknown mission that seems to be connected to the battle between human’s and fused.
I’ll confess there’s one thing you keep bringing up I’ve never heard before. How do we know that the Heralds would “hide” from the Voidbringers? My impression was always that the torture just began immediately. Is this from a WoB?
One quick note, only noteworthy since we know so little about Chana: She is mentioned in the story of Fleet, as it being impressive that he outran her. So possibly she is notably very fast. Maybe just via using Edgedancer powers/tactics?
@6 – I for some reason believe that the Honorblades are Splinters of Honor himself. Off the top of my head I don’t know if this has actually been confirmed or if it’s just something I think.
@7 – Maybe they exist, but just aren’t very strong without a source of power. Everyone thinking of a thing just makes that thought come to life; it doesn’t make it smart or give it abilities unless they get some source of Investiture. Literally every human on the planet thinks about fire which is why firespren are so common, but outside of fabrials they don’t do very much. Also, there are only five Vorin kingdoms. Anywhere outside of there that thinks of the Heralds at all think of them in different ways, and even within Vorin kingdoms they don’t seem to be fully consistent. Maybe the conflicting notions prevent one clear image from forming. Finally, maybe it gets lumped in with the Nahel spren? Like, when people think about Jezrien being honorable and protecting, that just reinforces the image of all the Honorspren.
@9 – Eh. Since he was almost certainly born on Ashyn, that would require Dawnsinger blood to somehow have gotten to Ashyn earlier than the migration. Are you basing it on anything in particular? Just that he “wasn’t meant to join”?
goddessimho @17 – Hmm. I doubt Hoid would have been involved in anything that would limit him to a single world. He seems much more concerned with Cosmere-level stuff, and while he definitely cares about keeping Odium bound to the Rosharan system, I don’t think he’d risk being part of the Oathpact. But that’s just my guess.
Bob @18 – How do we know that the Heralds would “hide” from the Voidbringers?
Oathbringer Chapter 38, the Stormfather says:
I think there may be one or two more places it’s mentioned, but that’s the one that’s fresh in my mind.
Re: Chana – quite possibly she was very fast naturally, but using Abrasion she’d be even faster. (Note that she’d use Dustbringer powers rather than Edgedancer, but they share Abrasion.) I’d imagine someone very skilled could be pretty amazing with the ability to turn friction on and off, and adjust it at a fine level.
I see what you did there… :-)
@18 Bob Well first of all it’s just a theory, there’s 2 main main reasons (for me) first the references to the Taln’s broken nails, the Herdazians (singer/human breed) are mainly known for their hard-black nails, skin darker than alethis but not makabaki… I know it’s a lot to suppose but the coincidence seems strange to me.
Secondly, the phrase “was not meant to join”, we all know what happened when humans went to Roshar, and even more, we know that, for example, races like Horn-eaters were persecuted. So maybe he had singer blood and therefore that would explain that phrase.
I have more connections, but they are small and I wanted to summarize my thoughts.
And…
Salt Lake City Comic-Con 2014 (Sept. 4, 2014)
[…]
Brandon Sanderson
Is he Rosharan? Taln is Rosharan.
[…]
Brandon Sanderson
Define Rosharan, how about that?
Newan
Native to Roshar.
Brandon Sanderson
That I have to RAFO.
Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019)
[… ]
Questioner
You’ve said that the Heralds came over from Ashyn.
Brandon Sanderson
Yes.
Is there any other WoB talking about Taln’s origin? Cause “Rosharan” seems more close to Roshar than Ashyn xD. And in the second WoB maybe is talking about the 9 others.
I know it is a theory, maybe very silly, but imagine Taln enduring the agony for thousands of years defending humans, singers and all life in Roshar being half singer half human that would be mindblowing. (or 3/4human 1/4singer or whatever)
Alice (or anybody else). Does the gemstone associated with the Ten Essences (listed in the start of Ars Arcanum) have anything to do with the the Herald associated with the essence? (Obviously, each of the essences relate to a Herald.) I do not recall anywhere in text of the books (excluding the Ars Arcanum) the gemstones are connected to the Heralds. The only place I remember the gemstones being important is in their use in Fabrials.
I have to believe that Brandon did not include the gemstones as part of the Tens Essences in the Ars Arcanum without the gemstones having some significance to the Heralds themselves.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
aka the musespren
@17 goddesimo I dont think Hoid could be a herald because he’s restricted from causing harm to others.
This was so well done! Thanks for putting This super comprehensive review together! I thought I knew most of what was known about the heralds but turns out I knew 75% or so. And really interesting analysis with your theory for each character, it just shows what a genius BS is in developing and executing these complex characters, and it’s details like that I glossed over in my previous rereads but will stick out now when next I reread. Do more of these, please you are amazing at this! Maybe the gods, or natanatam and lost civilizations or the shin and their connection to the humans who first arrived on roshar.
Thank you so much for this!
bad_platypus @20 – Caught that, did you? :D
Ithor @21 – Brandon has been exceptionally clear that all the Heralds, with the possible exception of Ash, were born on Ashyn prior to the migration to Roshar. When he says “Taln is Rosharan” it seems obvious to me that he using that to mean “native to the Rosharan system” as opposed to having come from, say, Nalthis. He has also been very clear that the Horneaters & Herdazians came along after the migration. So, no, it’s really not possible for Taln to have singer blood.
Andrew @22 – We know that the gemstones are connected to the Knight Radiant orders, though we don’t know for sure what the implications are. It seems possible that the gemstones are also connected to the Heralds, but we really don’t know enough to say. It might be one of those funny chains that happens, where an Order/Herald is connected to a specific stone, and that stone works best for Soulcasting certain things, but the Order/Herald doesn’t have any actually affinity for the product of the Soulcasting. I think we need to hold the connections in the Ars Arcanum loosely; they’re Vorin traditions, not necessarily actual connections… but of course, traditions do come from somewhere, so there may be connections, but different than we think. TL;DR – Maybe?
@ALL – Just so you know, the Dragonsteel Wiki Keeper informs me that some of my theories are wrong… but of course she won’t tell me which ones are wrong, or if any (much less which!) are partially correct. I’m assuming – or at least hoping – she’d have told me if I had any of the factual stuff wrong, so that’s pretty solid. (It better be, after all the researching I did!) Just don’t take my theories as canon.
One thing tangentially related to the Heralds I’ve always found fascinating is Taln’s Scar, the swath of red stars in the night sky. What exactly is it? Just a cluster of red stars? Maybe a nebula, or a visible arm of the galaxy, like our own Milky Way? How did it get to be named for Taln? I’m guessing that it was some time after Aharietiam.
WetlanderNW @26. You said “Just don’t take my theories as canon.” Correct me if I am wrong, but isn’t a theory by definition non-canonical? A theory is a hypothesis or belief. If something is determined to be canon, then it no longer is a theory but an established fact.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
aka the musespren
LazerWulf @27 – Brandon has consistently RAFOd anything to do with Taln’s Scar, much to my chagrin. (On the other hand, that many RAFOs mean there’s Something There.) I don’t think anyone has asked him about the origin of the name on Roshar, though. I … can’t honestly think of any particular reason it should have acquired the name at any particular point in history. If everryone knew that Taln was holding the Oathpact alone, there are all sorts of things that would result, but so far as we know, the Heralds kept that to themselves and everyone thinks they’re either a myth, or back “fighting for the Tranquiline Halls.” As I said earlier, though, it wouldn’t entirely surprise me if some of the Heralds managed to slip something into the lore of the planet to emphasize Taln’s courage and skill.
@27 re: Taln’s Scar. I can’t say anything for the name, but I can tell you about red stars. A star’s visible color is a result of its temperature, red being cool and blue/white being the hottest. It’s not exactly influenced by the star’s size, but the smaller stars have trouble getting those hot temperatures. Large stars burn hotter at their cores, but don’t last long, as they run out of fuel faster for [science redacted] reasons. The main takeaway is that a red dwarf, despite being smaller than those giant stars, will outlast all other stars in the universe.
So when you look at a star cluster and see that all of the stars in it are red, you can say, “there are no young stars in this cluster, so we can conclude that star formation in it has not only ceased, but ceased very long ago, and even the most recently formed sun-like stars in it have died out. This cluster is very old indeed.”
All that that tells us is that there is a very old star cluster that is visible from the surface of Roshar, assuming similar science is being applied. Since it’s described as red stars, I don’t think it could be a nebula, which would be more cloudy in appearance. If it’s a piece of the galaxy’s spiral structure it would be odd for one segment of it to be especially red, but not impossible in a fantasy novel obviously. Could also be a young cluster of mostly very large red stars. Could be unrelated large red stars that happen to be coincidentally near each other in the sky, but since they’re apparently visible from other shard worlds that’s not as credible as being a star cluster.
Could be that these stars are where humanity originated within the Cosmere, and they had to leave as habitable worlds died out over long eons. It could be where Adonalsium was shattered. These stars (or some very similar stars) are visible from other worlds, notably Scadrial, so it’s Something, at least.
No idea on the name though, if it wasn’t a RAFO detail I’d not have assumed it was Significant so now I’m more curious. If it’s always been there it probably had a name before the Heraldic Epochs, so maybe the Vorin church intentionally and methodically changed its name in the lands where they held influence, I’d like to know what it’s called by other cultures where they never gained a foothold. Could shed some light on things.
Great summary, Alice, but I wanted to point out a couple of things that I disagree with:
Taravangian may truely believe that Dova is Battar, we don’t know one way or the other, but he lied through his teeth about her warning them about the upcoming Desolation. We know from T’s own PoV chapter in WoR that it was _Gavilar_ who warned him on the night of his assassination. Which led to T. visiting the Nightwatcher, which led to the Diagramm. Whereas Dova only recently muscled her way into the “Silent Gatherer” program, again according to Vargo’s own PoV from WoR. We don’t yet know why T. is so determined to keep Gavilar’s role secret, but it is good to remember that when he admitted certain things to Dalinar at the end of OB, he wasn’t completely honest and forthcoming.
Couldn’t “my lord’s” refer to Honor instead? I notice that at the end of OB Shalash swore by Adonalsium, so maybe the Heralds saw Honor as not quite a god, but an angelic leader? And well, it is a _honorblade_, after all. And isn’t there a simpler explanation for Kalak knowing about Szeth holding Jezrien’s blade? Nale would have had reasons to keep an eye on Szeth, since OB strongly hinted that his “truthlessness” debacle was caused by a nascent Nahel bond between him and an unknown spren, which should have brought him on Nale’s radar.
Additionally, I agree with you that Liss is very likely a Herald herself, so they could have learned about it from her, too. The published books didn’t in any way allude to the Heralds being able to sense other honorblades, even though it was something that was in proto-version of WoK.
John @3:
Yes, I thought about it too. At the very least I think that Ishar had somehow influenced the events that led to the Recreance. OTOH, a lot of people on Roshar are named after the Heralds – Ishnah was also clearly named after Ishi, for instance, so it could be a fateful coincidence.
Oafgeek @6:
The honorblades are pieces of “Honor’s soul”, whatever that means, his power made solid.
Dptullos @15:
I am with you, I too find it disappointing and problematic that Herald of War turned out to be the best and strongest of them, it somewhat validates Vorin belief in War being the highest Calling.
I’m really interested in learning how Taln came to be a part of the Oathpact. I wonder if Dalinar will be able to trigger more lucidity in Taln once again.
I also hope we get an Interlude on Braize eventually.
I can comment about your bit at the beginning when you said we haven’t seen much about Adhesion that has to do with a vacuum. The surge of Adhesion has to do with differences in pressure. Whenever Kaladin sticks rocks (or The Lopen) to a wall in the chasms, he’s using Adhesion and it works much like a suction cup. In physics a vacuum is a space of zero pressure so anything and everything is sucked in towards it in order to try and reach equilibrium. That’s sort of how a suction cup works, except the inside of the suction cup (or the small space between the rock and the wall) doesn’t ever reach zero, just a lower pressure than the surrounding area.
@15, 31 – on Taln as Super Soldier –
I am sympathetic to this viewpoint; however, as Alice pointed out, Sanderson can’t break all tropes at the same time.
However, however . . . I am now wondering if we have the cause and effect backwards – what if he wasn’t a great soldier prior to becoming a herald and only became one in the face of the desolations – then Vorinism latched on to this (perhaps at the instigation of Heraldic influence) to bring out his Herald of War* status even more. This could be a fun reveal, especially since it would be ironically fun to read of the Alethi having to come to terms with their Herald of War wishing to do nothing but return to his field, and not having him be a validation of War as the highest calling.
So here is a theory I have just worked up (don’t know if anyone has pulled it out before): Taln was a farmer before becoming a Herald – and then ends up beating his plowshare into a sword, so to speak.
I assume that there was a cultural antecedent present in the unified culture of the Silver Kingdoms (as well as even further back when the Heralds were active and present as leaders in the human society?) with a structure that strongly delineated social roles between fighters and non-fighters (having developed down into present Shin and Horneater cultures, for instance, with their inverted notions of social hierarchy vis-a-vis the Alethi, who are the descendants of the fighters and thus value fighting more). This then makes sense of the notion that Taln was not initially intended to be a herald because he was coming from a segment of society that would have both been pedestrian (i.e. not elite, or the complete opposite, see thoughts below) but also highly prized because of their non-fighting natures while also being extremely strong. We also do not know very much at all about how Taln is viewed in the Western societies, which could be Sanderson hiding things until the reveal (or it could be them downplaying him because of his Soldier nature).
I also find it interesting to note in this context the various “occupations” of the Heralds: King, Judge, Guard, Healer, Scholar, Artist, Counselor, Maker, Soldier, Priest.
Some things of interest here – what is the overlap/difference between Guard and Soldier? This is a tension/division that is certainly real in the Real World (see for instance the difference between Law Enforcement/Police and Military), and a thematic struggle that Kaladin and Bridge 4 certainly bring to the fore and are working through. However, what is its place in the representative sampling of the Heralds? Why did the Heralds think it necessary for both? Or did they initially think that at all? – what does it say that the member that represents Soldiers was the one that wasn’t supposed to be there? (deeper question – it seems explicit that they chose 9 individuals that represented specific segments of society – why? what was the reasoning of the Heralds/Honor? Was this important for the Oathpact? It may have been the case that they set out to provide a representative sampling of the ideal structure of society (in which case it again is interesting that they left out agriculture and food production), but even if it wasn’t, the effect of this was that it did come to provide the basis for social engineering/construction of norms and accepted behaviors.) Beyond that even – what is the place of the division between Guard/Soldier in the Knight Radiant society – it seems to be the case that, while differing abilities and penchants led to them have a diverse workforce with different focuses, in the face of the Desolations – it is clear that all of them were supposed to be soldiers. So, why retain a division between Guard and Soldier for them? All of them were Guards of the broader society, All of them were Soldiers in the Desolations.
Another interesting thought – Rosharan societies prime us to be thinking in caste-like terms with regard to social status bestowed by occupations. All of the occupations of the heralds can be seen as significantly “elite” – except, in my view, that of Soldier. (Of, course, at this point, I am highly influenced by my own RL socially determined notions of distinction, but since Sanderson arises from a very similar discursive milieu, I am somewhat comfortable in using them as a metric…).
One could argue that Maker is a “lower class” type of profession – but I see it as more “Craftsman” – a masterly profession that bridges the gap between Artist and Scholar, that brings with it a lot of social cache. One could also argue that Guard is “lower” based on those metrics, but if we view it in the sense of Law Enforcement, it is easy to see how that could be seen as an elite calling, e.g. Chief of Police of a major metropolitan area. (Alice’s thought that the Maker as simple “blacksmith” doesn’t fit quite right makes me want to point out that it is helpful to think of the Heralds as representing the highest representative of these occupations within a given society – i.e. Guard would be analogous to the Attorney General maybe (highest Law Enforcement officer in the US) or maybe even US President as Commander in Chief? Healer as Surgeon General, Judge as Supreme Court Justice, etc., with those like Maker being something of a similar nature that we might not have one distinct position for – but if all creative craft guilds in a society were combined under a single head, he/she would then fit).
From this perspective then, it reinforces that Solder may be the outlier here.
Put all of this together and, poof, it would make sense that Taln was not initially a Soldier – but was something else originally and only became known as the Soldier because he proved himself adept at fighting in the Desolations and that later social structures demanded it to support and validate their own social views. I latch onto Farmer (again a generalized/idealized category) as it is the major section of society that is left out of the Heraldic structure, but fits with what we know about Taln.
*It seems odd to me that within such a heavily developed theological discourse of Vorinism that only a few of the Heralds have an appellation of “Herald of…” – according to the Coppermind (not exhaustive, I know, but I am riffing off the cuff and haven’t done a full search in the books) we have Herald of Kings, Herald of Justice, Herald of Beauty, Herald of War, and Herald of Luck – only 5 of them, while it would be easy to see some like Herald of Wisdom, Herald of Wisdom, etc. Maybe it just hasn’t been seen “on screen” – but it could also be an insight into Vorin culture as per which they are willing to give titles too and which they don’t.
Ok so if the number for Braize is 9 and there were supposed to be 9 heralds not ten, could this point to Odium influencing things from the get go? The tenth that wasn’t supposed to be there is the one that held out. So perhaps Honor and Cultivation caught on and ‘encouraged’ him to become one of the Heralds, sort of knowing that this would give them some time to enact countermeasures. Throwing in the tenth would also be a way of taking some of Braize’s (Odium’s influence away and putting the ball back in their 10-based court.
In old societies blacksmiths did have a special role. Their work was often seen as magic.
From the article:
” … the beggar Ahu …” Brandon being Brandon, he knows that this is one possible transliteration of the Name, Ha-Shem, which I won’t irritate any Orthodox Jews by writing here.
@Jay:
No. By that logic there should be Gavilar-spren all over the place, because people seem obsessed with him. The Gavilar-spren could have a chat with the Sadees-spren and the Nohadon-spren.
My point being, spren seem to be for types of thing, not for individual people. And in fact, spren are not “for” any living thing I can remember off the top of my head. There are logicspren, but not professorspren. There are musicspren, not bardspren. For that matter, there are musicspren but not Ryshadium-spren.
Could Talenel fit into this theory because he was the one who was not supposed to bear this burden and yet he became the sole burden?
Honorblades are not pieces of Heralds, their souls or anything of the sort.
They were part of Honor, kinda like atium and lerasium, and allowed Honor to directly power the Heralds (similarly to what happens at the end of Hero of Ages).
https://wob.coppermind.net/events/117-boskone-54/#e1572
https://wob.coppermind.net/events/361-skyward-pre-release-ama/#e11517
https://wob.coppermind.net/events/331-orem-signing/#e9408
https://wob.coppermind.net/events/116-general-reddit-2017/#e4788
Theory regarding Shalash – Jezrien really is only 30 in age when he became a herald. I don’t think Ash was part of the original oathpack but replace someone else at a later time – we have seen that Heralds can truly be killed by unusual methods (damn you Moash) so maybe it’s not out of reason that a new one could take their place.
Perhaps, this opens the door for a new herald to arise from our current cast of radiants??
@15
The Alethi might struggle to worship Taln as a long-suffering Super-Soldier. At minimum, he’s normally a dark-eyes, and that will automatically prejudice them against him.
I definitely think Taln as soldier and the Vorin reverence for soldiers is meant to be an inversion/subversion. Either the Vorin soldier emphasis came AFTER Taln (perhaps because of the others spreading tales about him, etc), or it will be a shock when they realize he is more of a Faramir-type who doesn’t care for battle for its own sake.
Re: Jezrien’s age
Years on Roshar are 500 days, about a third longer than an earth year. So Jezrien looking just into his thirtieth year would make him about 41 by our calendar.
Omg, thank you. Possible spoiler:
heralds could be exactly like the fused. they come back into human bodies and change their appearance to match their own.
Where does all this lore come from? this is not in the books.the entirety of the OathPact section written … where is this sourced from?
@felix: some of it is in the books, but subtle or has to be deduced. Other parts are things Brandon has said outside the text, at signings, on Reddit, etc. Notice those links to wob.coppermind.net above? WOB is “Word of Brandon.” Things Brandon Sanderson said, basically.
Fans refer to things an author says outside the text as Word of God. Brandon is religious and found that disturbing, and requested his fans to say Word of Brandon instead.
There’s a reason Alice warned everyone about spoiler stuff here. Some of this is definitely material not yet revealed in published fiction.
@felix – there’s also a book called Arcanum Unbounded that has short stories from various Cosmere words as well as ‘commentery’ from an in world source that provies some extra worldbuilding/metaphysics type information not found in the books.
I don’t think it’s been mentioned that using the Oathblades to get radiant powers is apparently grossly under-using them. It’s been hinted that they’re good for a lot more than granting magic powers or stabbing people.
Do we know if Jezrien’s death affected his blade?
If Taravangian is right about Dova being Battar rather than Vedel, the connection to the theory could be simple: she’s lying about the Death Rattles. She’s transcribing them wrong or something, but offering false counsel.
@48 noblehunter
We don’t know if his death affected his blade because it was previously stolen from Bridge Four.
Is it possible that we are going to find out that all of the Heralds were at the Treaty Feast? Also, just wondering about this WAY off topic subject- With the Sandman saying that there would be a gap between books 5 and 6, are we looking at this series not being competed until the 40’s? And I am truly truly truly not being a trolling idiot here….Sanderson is so prolific that I mean NO disrespect, I’m NOT complaining AT ALL, just wondered if anyone else has thought about it. Granted, that will put me up in years, but at least that guarantees great Books for the next 20-25 years!!!!
@Disciple17, I actually complained to Brandon in person once that I would never see the end of the Stormlight Archive. Given the gap and Brandon’s publishing frequency, I would be 90 or so, and as a person with diabetes I am not likely to make it there. (It isn’t impossible, just quite unlikely.)
Last year, Brandon made noises about bringing on collaborators so he could finish the Cosmere sequence he has in his head, but then a year or so later, nothing has actually happened. He has announced at least two other collaborations on non-Cosmere books that also seem to have come to nothing. Perhaps he found that he just isn’t comfortable collaborating?
I thought one of Dalinars powers had to do with shaping stone. The Radiant in his vision shaped stone much the way Dalinar fixed the temples in Thaylen City, one made stairs in a slope, the other fixing and smoothing over broken sculptures. Seems the same to me. I’ll be honest, a lot of the magic system (where Sanderson shines brightest usually) he uses doesn’t yet make sense, I suppose I’d need to see a few more radiants before I truly get it. I doubt I’m the only one there. By and large I’d rather just RAFO. I look forward to seeing where he’s going with this tale, well done with the article.
Carl – As I understand it, Brandon doesn’t have much intention of collaborating on his Cosmere books. What he’s doing is collaborating on non-Cosmere books, and that’s happening now. Dark One is coming out as a graphic novel and possibly as a TV show (preorders for the GN went up today). Songs of the Dead is in work with Peter Orullian. The Original, cowritten with Mary Robinette Kowal, is coming out as an audio original, and might be out already for all I know (I haven’t looked yet). Alcatraz 6 is being cowritten with Janci Patterson to get Bastille’s voice right. Apocalypse Guard is in work with Dan Wells.
Basically, only he knows what he wants to do in-Cosmere, and he’s not ready to try to share those out. He’s trying to get some of his other ideas out of his head by working with other authors who can strengthen the voices needed for those stories, so he can concentrate more on the Cosmere.
@Wetlandernw: Wow, I remembered that totally wrong. I think I mixed up his actual statement end of last year with my own mental “This is what he should do” idea, and of course my idea was wrong. Thanks.
@Andrew Schupska
Re: Jezrien’s age
WOB says that though the years are longer on Roshar, the weeks and days are shorter. In fact, WOB very specifically states that Roshar to earth time ratio is thus about 1.1. So you could say that Jezrien, when 30 on Roshar, is about 33 in our reckoning.
Spoilers for cosmere as a whole: when Ash swears by Adonalsium and from what we have seen in all the books-though mainly spoken of in Mistborn, when someone swears by a deity, that is typically the deity they worship. So why does the youngest herald, and all the heralds born in the system of Roshar, seem to worship Adonalsium when it is quite likely that they were born post shattering. Though I doubt this is early in post shattering cosmere history since the heralds were not formed until odium came and that was post the destruction of three shards over at least two known systems. So the heralds seem to be at least a few generations removed from the humans that honor and cultivation brought to the rosharian system. I guess we have seen people worshipping dead deities, but since as a culture they likely were closer to the shards then it seems they would not be ignorant of the shattering so why is it that they still pass on understanding and worship?
I am still new to the whole cosmere and barely seeing many of the overarching ideas and things so my musings are what they are-very uneducated.
Kevin
@kevin you make an interesting point. But I think it’s less about the distance to Shattering and more about the nearness (if that’s a word) to the shards. It’s difficult to worship someone or something you know exists. The shards were very real to them. Possibly too real to worship and interact with regularly. He/they were more like Kings or Queens than Gods.
The big A on the other hand was known to be the Creator. And even if he’s shattered, he still “lives” in the form of his pieces. Besides, it’s not necessary that the heralds would know if the shattering unless they world hopped or the shards told them.
@kevin: those are good question, and questions I’m sure Brandon means us to ask. We probably won’t see the answers … well, in fact I will likely be dead before Brandon answers them, but you might see them in 20 or 30 years when he finishes the Stormlight Archive.
I was thumbing through my copy of Arcanum Unbounded and noticed that the 10 gas giants in the Roshar system are named after the Heralds (and in order, no less).
What occurred to me was that these planets might literally be tied directly to the Heralds. I am wondering if they are part of the mechanism that allows the Heralds to return. Part of my reasoning is because they have virtually no presence Shadesmar, which is the only time I remember that being specified about a planet (many have nothing mentioned about viewing from Shadesmar, which makes it stand out that there is a little).
The other question is who named the planets. Based on Earth history, the gas giants weren’t discovered (or at least identified as planets) until telescopes were invented. I am unaware of any similar technology on Roshar.
@RogerPavelle, by definition things don’t have much presence in Shadesmar because no one thinks about them very much. I would expect that most people on Roshar have never heard of the gas giants, and aside from a few astronomy buffs almost nobody thinks about them.
They were presumably named by someone with a telescope or the magical equivalent. Just because we haven’t seen it doesn’t mean it isn’t there. Mind you, a general like the Blackthorn would find telescopes really useful.
@61 Carl
My point is that these are the only non-inhabited planets mentioned in ANY of the systems that talk about how they are viewed from Shadesmar. So, that leads me to think there is something different happening there that isn’t in any other system in the Cosmere.
Also, I don’t remember any mentions of astronomy (or even people wearing glasses) on Roshar. So, while it is possible they exist, and that they have spotted and named the gas giants, I haven’t seen any evidence.
I may be mistaken but I believe that the map that includes the gas giants was not made by Rosharans; I think they were probably made by Khriss and Nazh. Even the more knowledgeable Rosharans wouldn’t have had much opportunity to discover how much or how little presence those planets had in Shadesmar. Most likely they’re largely unknown among the general population of Roshar, though scholars probably know of them (planets as far out as Saturn have been known on earth for a long while, though I don’t remember how long ago Uranus and Neptune were discovered) and could have calculated their relative distances from the sun, so it would be no surprise if they did indeed have those names in-world.
It is true though that we don’t see much in the way of lenses, at least to my memory; considering the breadth of technology available it would be surprising, though, especially considering they can transmute any material into a crystal with soulcasting and could easily shape lenses with much simpler processes than would normally be needed (though that comes at a high cost and couldn’t be mass-produced).
Just as likely is the idea that scholars who have that tech aren’t sharing it widely with the Alethi we’re mostly focusing on who would just use it for war (because that’s all they use anything for). I wouldn’t be terribly surprised if telescopes were more widely available in Shinovar or Azir considering what we have (and how much we haven’t) seen of them. There’s also a huge cultural divide between “masculine” and “feminine” arts, and only ardents are allowed to study both, so maybe telescopes are just behind a curtain that hasn’t been lifted yet; we’ve only had a fairly shallow glance into the interior of ardentia scholarship so there’s no telling what they might have right under our noses.
Considering Kaladin’s dad as an example it seems like Alethi culture doesn’t place much focus or value on the practice of medicine so it doesn’t surprise me that we haven’t seen anyone wearing glasses. Like telescopes we may see them elsewhere in-world.
RogerPavelle @62. IIRC, Renarin used to wear glasses at the beginning of the series (before his bonding with Glys improved his eyesight). Also, when Wit was telling a story, he mentioned eyeglasses.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
AKA the musespren
In the Ym interlude in WoR (I-2) he is very grateful for his spectacles, and makes clear that they’ve been around for a long time.
Also, we see people from Tvlakv & Tyn to Dalinar & Elhokar using spyglasses, so yes, telescopes are highly likely. We just haven’t been around anyone who would use them yet.
Love this so much. Thank you.
I will say that apparently the ‘concept’ of zero is broached, but it’s by Pattern:
“What,” Pattern said with a hum, “is a chaperone?” “That is someone who watches two young people when they are together, to make certain they don’t do anything inappropriate.” “Inappropriate?” Pattern said. “Such as … dividing by zero?” “What?” Shallan asked, looking to Adolin, who shrugged. “Look, just keep an eye on us. It will be all right.”
Quite fun. And Shallans response seems to back your point that Roshar may not actually have it in normal use
Correction – Jezereh is the ‘king of heralds’, not the herald of kings.
As for him being 30ish and having a daughter who is also a herald – an year on Roshar is 500 days. So a 30 year old would effectively be 40ish and above, which would easily explain having a child and that child being old enough as well
^my bad, he is indeed the herald of kings in vorin culture