If a female channeler can form a gateway, then they are guaranteed a life expectancy of 550 years. If they take care of themselves, that is. And swear no Oaths. Males “only” get 500 years.
The very first peek we got at The Wheel of Time Companion, out very soon now, was Robert Jordan’s explanation of how he ranked the strength of channelers, the magic users in his epic fantasy world. Although Jordan establishes a 72-level ranking for the strength for both male and female channelers, the specific rankings of the major (and not so major) characters in that scale are listed separately, in each channeler’s individual Companion entry.
There is no single chart listing every channeler within the One Power strength scale. So, with the permission of Harriet McDougal, Maria Simons, and Alan Romanczuk, the astounding authors of the Companion, we made one! And we discovered some interesting things along the way.
In Jordan’s explanation regarding strength in the One Power, Jordan explains how strength in the Power correlates with the life expectancy of a channeler. The One Power suffuses its users with life, and extends the biological lifespan of an individual to incredible lengths. Here is the applicable explanation from Jordan:
For example, at the so-called 800-year level, a person could reasonably be expected to live to between roughly 775 and 825 years of age, with some making it to 850, and a very few making it to as much as 900. Strength level 56(44) was the 300-year age level, 67(55) the 200-year age level, and the bottom level, 72(60), approximately the 150-year level for women. The male equivalents were approximately the 240-year, 180-year, and 135-year levels for men.
Using these data points for users of saidar, I was able to calculate a graph of likely life expectancies for all 72 levels in the One Power strength scale. (Thanks to mathemagician Michael Carlisle for helping me with the formula, which is f(x) = -0.00208023x^3 + 0.264216x^2 – 17.5246 x + 816.746 if you’re interested.) Please note that only the data points provided by Robert Jordan are canonical, the rest of this is extrapolation and can only theoretically be applied to the Wheel of Time series.
Interestingly, life expectancy for channelers of saidar doesn’t correlate with strength in the One Power in a straight progression upwards–it actually flattens out a little just before the middle of the strength scale, around level 40.
Compiling the chart also inadvertently revealed the strength level threshold for making gateways (unless you have a Talent, like Androl), and made Cadsuane even more of a mold-breaking living legend, as she was the strongest Aes Sedai known before Nynaeve came onto the scene.
A few notes: This is not a chart of ALL channelers in the series, even though that information is included in the Companion. I’ve only included major characters from the series, as well as minor characters whose placement on the scale revealed interesting information.
The saidin side of chart is mostly blank because the Companion does not provide that information for Asha’man like it does for Aes Sedai. The placement of Logain and Mazrim Taim are my guesses based on their comparisons to Rand throughout the series. (Logain can hold almost as much as Rand can, according to Knife of Dreams, and this threatens Taim’s position in The Black Tower, as mentioned in many of the books.)
Here’s the saidar One Power strength chart, with accompanying life expectancies:
| Current Strength Level |
(Old Strength Level) | Saidar Channelers | Life Expectancy (Years) | |
| 1 | (+12) | Lanfear, Alivia, Semirhage | 799.48 | |
| 2 | (+11) | Cyndane, Mesaana, Graendal, Sharina Melloy, Talaan din Gelyn (potential) |
782.74 | |
| 3 | (+10) | Nynaeve (potential), Caraighan Maconar |
766.49 | |
| 4 | (+9) | Nynaeve (initial), Talaan din Gelyn (initial), Moghedien |
750.74 | |
| 5 | (+8) | Cadsuane | 735.47 | |
| 6 | (+7) | 720.66 | ||
| 7 | (+6) | 706.31 | ||
| 8 | (+5) | Elayne (potential), Egwene | 692.39 | |
| 9 | (+4) | Nicola (potential) | 678.91 | |
| 10 | (+3) | 665.84 | ||
| 11 | (+2) | Aviendha | 653.18 | |
| 12 | (+1) | Therava | 640.90 | |
| 13 | (1) | Moiraine (pre-Finn), Siuan (Amyrlin), Romanda, Lelaine, Elaida |
629.01 | |
| 14 | (2) | Sheriam, Liandrin, Galina, Leane (pre-stilling) |
617.48 | |
| 15 | (3) | 606.30 | ||
| 16 | (4) | 595.47 | ||
| 17 | (5) | Verin, Alviarin, Melaine, Alanna | 584.97 | |
| 18 | (6) | 574.78 | ||
| 19 | (7) | Gitara Moroso, Gabrelle Brawley | 564.89 | |
| 20 | (8) | 555.30 | Traveling One Power threshold | |
| 21 | (9) | 545.98 | Traveling One Power threshold | |
| 22 | (10) | Vandene | 536.94 | |
| 23 | (11) | Adeleas | 528.14 | |
| 24 | (12) | 519.59 | ||
| 25 | (13) | Elza Penfell | 511.26 | |
| 26 | (14) | 503.15 | ||
| 27 | (15) | Careane | 495.25 | |
| 28 | (16) | 487.54 | ||
| 29 | (17) | 480.00 | ||
| 30 | (18) | 472.64 | ||
| 31 | (19) | 465.42 | ||
| 32 | (20) | 458.35 | ||
| 33 | (21) | 451.41 | ||
| 34 | (22) | 444.58 | ||
| 35 | (23) | Suian (post-Amyrlin) | 437.86 | |
| 36 | (24) | Leane (post-stilling) | 431.23 | |
| 37 | (25) | 424.68 | ||
| 38 | (26) | 418.19 | ||
| 39 | (27) | 411.76 | ||
| 40 | (28) | 405.37 | ||
| 41 | (29) | 399.01 | ||
| 42 | (30) | 392.67 | ||
| 43 | (31) | 386.33 | ||
| 44 | (32) | 379.98 | ||
| 45 | (33) | 373.62 | ||
| 46 | (34) | 367.21 | ||
| 47 | (35) | 360.77 | ||
| 48 | (36) | 354.26 | ||
| 49 | (37) | 347.69 | ||
| 50 | (38) | 341.03 | ||
| 51 | (39) | 334.27 | ||
| 52 | (40) | 327.41 | ||
| 53 | (41) | 320.43 | ||
| 54 | (42) | 313.31 | ||
| 55 | (43) | 306.05 | ||
| 56 | (44) | 298.63 | ||
| 57 | (45) | Sorilea | 291.04 | |
| 58 | (46) | 283.26 | ||
| 59 | (47) | 275.29 | ||
| 60 | (48) | 267.12 | ||
| 61 | (49) | 258.72 | ||
| 62 | (50) | 250.09 | ||
| 63 | (51) | 241.21 | ||
| 64 | (52) | 232.08 | ||
| 65 | (53) | 222.68 | ||
| 66 | (54) | Moiraine (post-Finn) | 212.99 | |
| 67 | (55) | 203.01 | ||
| 68 | (56) | 192.72 | ||
| 69 | (57) | 182.11 | ||
| 70 | (58) | 171.16 | ||
| 71 | (59) | 159.88 | ||
| 72 | (60) | Morgase | 148.23 |
Here’s the relevant saidin One Power strength chart, with accompanying life expectancies:
| Strength Level |
(Saidar Strength Level Equivalent) | Saidin Channelers | Life Expectancy (Years) | |
| ++1 | Rand, Moridin, Rahvin | 800.00 | ||
| ++2 | Aginor/Osan’gar, Demandred, Sammael, Logain, Taim (possible) |
785.70 | ||
| ++3 | Balthamel/Aran’gar, Asmodean, Taim (possible) |
771.60 | ||
| ++4 | Be’lal | 757.69 | ||
| ++5 | 743.97 | |||
| ++6 | 730.43 | |||
| 7 | 1(+12) | 717.08 | ||
| 8 | 2(+11) | 703.91 | ||
| 9 | 3(+10) | 690.92 | ||
| 10 | 4(+9) | 678.11 | ||
| 11 | 5(+8) | 665.48 | ||
| 12 | 6(+7) | 653.02 | ||
| 13 | 7(+6) | 640.73 | ||
| 14 | 8(+5) | 628.61 | ||
| 15 | 9(+4) | 616.65 | ||
| 16 | 10(+3) | 604.86 | ||
| 17 | 11(+2) | 593.23 | ||
| 18 | 12(+1) | 581.77 | ||
| 19 | 13(1) | 570.46 |
Although not depicted here, the weakest a saidin channeler can be (72 on the saidin scale) is the equivalent of 65(53) on the saidar scale. To put this in context, that’s still one level above the meager strength level at which the Eelfinn left Moiraine.
The life expectancy progression for saidin channelers is different as well, and is a more uniform shape. (The formula for this is f(x) = -0.000369429x^3 + 0.0989288x^2 – 14.5901x + 814.491.)
Just like Robert Jordan stresses in the “Strength in the One Power” entry from the Companion, One Power strength levels are not an indication of the talent or effectiveness of an individual channeler. There is clearly differentiation within the same strength rank, as well, as evidenced in the channelers who are considered 1(+12) on the saidar strength scale. In Winter’s Heart, it is clearly stated that Alivia can hold more saidar than Lanfear, and Semirhage is clearly below Lanfear in the Forsaken ranks, as well. This differentiation applies to saidin, as well, as it’s difficult to believe that Rahvin could overpower Moridin/Ishamael and Rand, even though he is within the same strength level.
Compiling this chart made The Last Battle all the more impressive to me, as there are a staggering number of monumentally powerful channelers active on the field. We know this while we’re reading, but having numbers and comparison to Aes Sedai channelers really codifies just how underpowered the forces of Light were before the events of The Wheel of Time.
I’ve been poring through The Wheel of Time Companion over these past couple months, and by far the most enjoyable part is being privy to these mechanics and quiet interconnections of Jordan’s world. Suddenly I have all the information I need to deduce channeler life expectancy, or how time travel works, or how the economy of the Westlands continent functions. (I didn’t even GET to that one… yet!) Reading through the Companion has been inspiring.
Soon it will be everyone else’s turn! I’m curious to know what may come…
The life expectancy of Chris Lough is pretty good. It would be better if he didn’t bother his co-workers so much.
I…what?
Elayne, Egwene, and Aviendha are explicitly stated to be stronger than Cadsuane and Nicola.
Also, wasn’t Alivia wearing Nynaeve’s bracelet and rings angreal during the Winter’s Heart finale, thus accounting for the saidar increase Cyndane observed?
While I’ve always accepted that Semirhage and Nynaeve were equals as according to the female strength chart (source: http://13depository.blogspot.com/2009/02/saidar-strength-ranking.html), since it has a certain symmetry to it, that chart isn’t canon at all so I’m totally willing to let Semirhage be considered on the same level as Lanfear…even though it seems odd, since Lanfear is supposed to be The Strongest Ever, that’s just a myth.
I was very much under the impression that Cadsuane was only the most powerful Aes Sedai until Nyneave, Egwene and Elaine came on the scene. They were always supposed to be more powerful than Cads.
And I never read anywhere that Rahvin was Rand/Ishy/Moridin strength. In fact I’m sure Aginor was the next strongest forsaken after Ishy.
Great article though. Thanks.
The next strongest Forsaken was Lanfear and at some points she was mentioned to be the strongest. Demanded was second to ishi for male Forsaken.
The Companion’s entry on Cadsuane has further explanation of her strength level and how it impacted Aes Sedai society up to and including the appearance of Nynaeve, Egwene, and Elayne. The figures in the chart are directly from the Companion, so they are what they are. But there’s also clearly some leeway in regards to a channeler’s initial strength and their potential strength. Cadsuane would be at her topmost potential strength, while the main characters are probably at varying degrees between their initial and potential.
@2 I think there was the implication that the three girls had a potential that was greater than Cadsuane, but not that they equaled her current power levels.
Unfortunately this contradicts not only the books themselves (Cadsuane and Nicola’s strength for certain), but also the section in the companion on OP strength. The OP section explicitly states that the 72-levels are specifically for Aes Sedai (which was originally 60 levels later to be expanded with women such as Nynaeve, Egwene and the Forsaken appeared.
**SPOILER**
“Before the appearance of Elayne, Egwene, Nynaeve, Aviendha and Nicola, there were 60 base levels of strength, each of which had internal gradations, for women who were strong enough to be raised to the shawl. After their appearance, there were 72 base levels.
The earlier distribution of Aes Sedai strengths thus ran from 1 to 60, which became 13 to 72.”
Also Elayne’s section clearly states that she has a “Potential” of 8(+5)
“Elayne Trakand — An Aes Sedai of the Green Ajah and the rebel contingent, with a potential strength level of 8(+5)”
I apologize for being nitpicky and obnoxious, since this is otherwise a really well written and interesting post, but I have to take issue with that.
The books were absolutely explicit that A) Egwene, Elayne, and Aviendha were of comparable strengths, B) Egwene was forced in The Great Hunt by the Seanchan to her maximum strength, and C) Elayne and Egwene were stronger than Cadsuane and Nicola. I assume by the transitive property that Aviendha was as well, but I can’t recall if Cadsuane ever actually met Aviendha to compare.
Why is Egwene listed here as the same strength as Elayne when Elayne came right out and said that Egwene was stronger than her because she had been forced, if the chart is not reflecting their maximum strengths? If the chart is reflecting their maximum strengths, why are they lower than Cadsuane and Nicola?
Chris Lough, you a brave person! :-)
That said, I really appreciate your work on this. I am a data nerd myself, so thanks for putting this together.
I think the key here is to remember that the WoT Companion was compiled from RJ’s notes. It’s possible that what he eventually published did not in all cases match his earlier notes. Fans always want every detail of his meticulously crafted world to fit together like a Swiss clock. But the reality is, he was human and often changed his mind about certain details in the more than 20 years the story evolved. That’s one possible explanation for some discrepancies.
For another, one of his resounding themes was human error and how one character’s perspective could be completely accurate in their view, yet fundamentally flawed. In cases where the reader is basing his or her assessment of a character’s One Power strength on the observations of another character, bear in mind that ego can color that assessment. Their opinion on how strong someone is in the One Power may be biased.
At the end of the day, I am just glad we have this book. I am looking forward to delving into the entries and comparing them to my own assumptions. If they don’t always agree, well, that’s okay. I’m sure I’ll enjoy every minute I can view this world with fresh eyes.
If there’s anything the One Power strengths entry and Oath Rod entry (and discussion here) taught us, it’s that the Companion faithfully replicates Jordan’s notes, even when those notes are internally contradictory or are inconsistent with one book or another. Given that, I kind of expect the issues noted in comments 1-6 (and probably ones after this). And I’d suggest that while the problems are worth noting/discussing (nerds gonna nerd! :-) ), actual dismay IMO falls a little in the “doth protest too much” vein. :-)
ETA (on seeing my comment ended up #8, not #7): So basically, I agree unreservedly with comment 7.
I happened to read Nicola’s entry in the companion on Amazon, and that clearly says her strength was 9(+4). That has to be potential strength, since Nicola was never forced.
Further, Egwene explicitly says that Nicola’s potential, while impressive, was less than her own.
I know what confused you into putting her at level 5(+8). You’re going off the statement in her entry that she matched Cadsuane. That, however, reflects the fact that RJ was conflicted about Cadsuane’s strength. He initially had Cadsuane as level 9(+4), which matched Nicola’s potential, is held up by everything the books themselves say, and also matches her initial glossary entry.
He he then changed his mind and made Cadsuane stronger, but that doesn’t mean you should read Nicola’s entry to mean she now matches Cadsuane’s greater strength.
ETA: In fact, Nicola’s entry explicitly says that her potential was 9(+4). So please correct that part.
It seems wrong that the curves arent sigmoidal to the biologist in me… I guess I could buy linear but the weird shape of the saidar curve is just odd… and makes you wonder what could explain such a relationship. I am betting that RJ never drew this curve so maybe he never intended the relationship between power and age to be this exact.
Thanks for the pointer, fionwe. I’ve adjusted Nicola in the chart.
SunDriedRainbow, I’ve also added a qualifier to Elayne’s entry, since the Companion gives her strength level as her potential, not her initial. Egwene’s entry doesn’t specify whether her strength level is her initial or her potential/maximum. I agree with you, though, that since Egwene was forced to her max, she most likely spends the entire series stronger than Elayne.
@ReactorChris
Glad to be of help. You may also want to note that Aviendha’s level 11(+2) position might only be her current strength (and likely where Elayne was at the end of the series, since they were pretty much in lock step). Aviendha’s potential has been stated as equal to Elayne’s and Egwene’s so many times, not just in the books but in interviews, that I would look for strong evidence that RJ changed his mind on her (like we have for Cadsuane) before saying that her potential was 11(+2).
@2 The main purpose having Rahvin up with the elites would be to at least have it make sense that the Dark’s big plan during the early-middle portion of things was to set up Rand going to Andor to fight him, as it’d make sense for the most powerful current Forsaken (since Ishy hadn’t been brought back as Moridin) to be the focus of Rand, while a couple others were simply there to provide support (or at least Graendal, I think).
I mean, from reading the series, unless I missed something, I never noticed any concrete evidence setting him up to be the most elite of the Forsaken after Ishy’s first form was finally killed off, but it does make the plotting setting up Rand vs. Rahvin make more sense.
Again, I’m sorry for coming on strong. @8 is right, this is something to be celebrated, not picked apart. I went with my gut reaction and should have moderated myself a bit.
Thanks for taking my comments into consideration even though I was way too aggressive, Chris. It really is a great post!
@14
The plan was to have Rand attack Sammael. His attacking Caemlyn was a total surprise.
@14 there was a mention somewhere that Rahvin thought he was at least as strong as Lanfear if not a little stronger, and Lanfear was stronger than the male forsaken except for ish and demandred
@17 Aginor was definitely stronger than Lanfear. He was noted as being the second strongest Forsaken, after Ishamael, and that he “met Lews Therin blow for blow”. He’s just easy to forget because he got offed so quickly and returned as a bumbling idiot.
fionwe, I don’t feel comfortable changing the status of Aviendha, as her Companion entry just states her strength level and doesn’t provide context like Elayne’s entry does. (Her entry DOES point out her superior technique in handling and reading saidar, though.) I’m betting that determining whether Aviendha is at her initial strength or her potential strength is an exercise left to the reader.
No worries, SunDriedRainbow! The Wheel of Time is pretty near and dear to all of us here, and a lot of these placements shocked me, too, after I first assembled the chart.
@11 Neuralnet
The biologist in ME realizes that the author graphed out this curve based on 4 initial data points, which is not NEARLY enough data to actually extrapolate anything but a pretty little meaningless graph from. I really don’t know why Tor is allowing such baseless bits of conjecture to be presented as rational deductions in articles on their site.
@@@@@TorChris I didn’t mean to imply that your work here was unappreciated … just being a nerd I suppose and as others have stated pointing out inconsistencies that are 100% to be expected! But there ARE more than a total of 72 levels of OP strength according to the section in the companion the level 72 would have been the weakest woman still able to attain the shawl … meaning Sorilea, Moiraine (post-‘Finn) and Morgase would all be below level 72. Theoretically Daigian, as the weakest Sister ever mentioned should be level 72.
@18 I thought that Aginor was the most powerful politically speaking not strength wise. Though now that I think about it, when he met Rand as Dashiva he said that Dashiva was almost as strong as him. Maybe it just gets fuzzy near the top.
Not sure if the formula is wrong or if the graphs are off, but the math is not working out. They start out Ok, but fail quickly.
First Saidin Strength =(-0.00369429*A2^3) + (0.0989288*A2^2)-(14.5901*A2)+814.491
Second Saidin Strength =(-0.00369429*POWER(D2,3)) + (0.0989288*POWER(D2,2))-(14.5901*D2)+814.491
Saidar Strength =(-0.00208023*G2^3)+(0.24216*G2^2)-(17.5246*G2)+816.746
Using these formulas Saidin strength goes to below 0 at 46, and Saidar strength goes below 0 at 75.
Age
Saidin Strength
Age
Saidin Strength
Age
Saidar Strength
1
800.00
1
800.00
1
799.4615
2
785.68
2
785.68
2
782.6488
3
771.51
3
771.51
3
766.2955
46
(6.91)
46
(6.91)
46
320.5437
75
(1,281.82)
75
(1,281.82)
75
-13.0460
From the Amazon preview pages, there seems to be a number of inconsistencies in the book regarding strength levels.
Cadsuane’s strength is said to be 5(+8) in her own and Tamela’s entry, but 9(+4) in Nicola’s.
Graendal’s entry puts her at 3(+10), while Talaan’s says her potential is 2(+11) “equal to that of Graendal, Mesaana and Sharina.”
As others have mentioned, the books explicitly state that Aviendha’s potential is the same as Egwene and Elayne’s, so it’s also odd that her strength is so much lower here.
Could somebody at Tor ask Team Jordan to clarify which numbers are correct?
@24
We know Graendal can’t be level 2, since she says Cyndane, who is weaker than Lanfear, is stronger than her and it is very rare. So Graendal’s placement at level 3 makes perfect sense.
Wait did I miss something? When did RJ make Cadsuane so strong until she was above Egwene, Elayne and Aviendha?
You might want to remember that there was an angreal as part of Cadsuane’s Paralis-Net. This means she ALWAYS had an angreal.
I don’t remember at the moment if using an angreal affects how others could sense her One Power ability but, if it does, then any time her strength was compared to someone else within the books it was likely in error.
@27: Angreal don’t affect how other’s sense your potential. We have an instance of someone sense how much she was holding, and comment that she must be using her angreal.
“Cadsuane must have had an angreal of her own, from the amount of saidar she was drawing, more than Elza and Merise combined,”
This is from Winter’s Heart.
Incidentally, the Companion says Cadsuane’s angreal was not too powerful, and allowed her to draw as much as the strongest man (Rand).
Also, at what point in the series is the male list taken? Rand in Fires of Heaven =/= Rand in AMOL, and I don’t believe for one second that Moridin = Rahvin.
Mathematically, if FoHRand > Rahvin (evidenced in FoH itself), Rahvin = Moridin, and AMOLRand (WAAAY)> FoHRand, then AMOLRand (WAAAY)> Moridin. But we didn’t see this. Moridin and Rand appeared almost perfectly even in AMOL.
The inconsistencies don’t trouble me. The Wheel of Time crew have stated outright several times that most of this is ‘as is’ and not completely internally coherent.
@29 Remember that Rand had his little fat man angreal during FoH. Also the scale isn’t pure 1:1, there are sub-gradations.
@28 Yet Cyndane assumed that Alivia had an angreal after sensing that she was stronger than she had been before.
@30
Indeed. Cyndane was far enough that she doesn’t sense whether Alivia can channel (see her comments about in case Alivia was a wilder).
Lanfear only comments on how strong Alivia’s attack weaves are. Those were stronger than when Cyndane was Lanfear, and since she knows that it was just impossible for Alivia to be stronger than Lanfear (who was at the pinnacle of female strength), she (correctly) guesses Alivia must have an angreal.
@20 James
Exactly. Any statistician will tell you that fitting a curve through 4 points using 4 fit parameters has a) nowhere near enough data in the first place, and b) is suffering serious overfitting.
There’s also the problem that the extract itself explicitly gives a range for the highest level (making it sensible to expect that the lower levels also have ranges, albeit with lower standard deviations), so any curve should have error bars incorporated into it anyway.
Considering the amount of statistical data people, especially journalists, have to deal with these days, it is appalling how poor most people’s knowledge of statistics is. And worse, the lack of understanding of their own lack of knowledge. I’m happy to admit that I don’t know much about statistics, but at least I know that I don’t, and not to trust my ordinary intuition when statistics are involved. </rant>
Great article and research, Chris. I appreciate your efforts on this. I was really looking forward to the Wheel of Time Companion for the exact purpose of clearing up strength in the OP. I’m glad that the authors stated that these are really RJ’s notes with some amendments by the authors/editors to try and bridge the gap between notes and how things actually turned out in the books. That being said, the revelations on OP strength in the Companion have left me even more baffled than I was before.
I do fantasy writing on my own for WoT, and I used to write at a website that was dedicated to writing stories that took place during the Trolloc Wars and the War of Power. Given that, I have always wanted to fully understand the OP and how channelers compare with one another and the Companion really just didn’t help. There are too many contradictions between the Companion and the books, as many people have pointed out. I don’t even really understand the number system he is using. Besides the discrepancies between Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha vs Cadsuane (which really contradict the books), one I don’t think anyone mentioned that is glaringly wrong is Asmodean and Lanfear. By the Companion, Asmodean is stronger than Lanfear and we know for a fact from the books that she could easily destroy him and that he stands at the bottom of the pack with probably only Moghedien below him. Rahvin also doesn’t make sense and I’ve never interpreted him to be at the same level as Ishamael, Aginor, Lanfear, and Demandred. I also interpreted Sammael to be slightly stronger than Rahvin. We know Rahvin says he thinks he could take Lanfear but that’s more than likely just his ego talking.
I also think that the strength differences between male and females is exaggerated in the Companion by a lot (and even in the books). Aes Sedai of this Age really have no clue how strong men are other than the general stereotype that they are stronger on average than women, so of course the practice is to be safe and use at least 6 Aes Sedai to hold a shield on a man. Sure, there are the Rands and the Taims of the world who are as powerful as the elite of the Forsaken, but overall, my guess is that during the Age of Legends, the spread in strength was not so vast. I think it would also be more balanced out by skill. Women, overall, are supposed to be more skilled at weaving the power than men.
Anyway, we really only get a sense of male strength in the books from the perspectives of the strongest male channelers, but I bet if the Black Tower had actually existed for as long as the White Tower, that we would see a more reasonable spread in strength. For that purpose, I plan to continue using my own interpretation of the OP (there are a lot of other aspects of the OP where RJ contradicts himself that I have clarified for my own system, but I’m not gonna get into that here). For what it’s worth, I’m pasting below how I have calculated the OP for many years now, and I have based it off of all the research I’ve done on the books. It’s really too bad the Companion couldn’t have definitively cleared things up :(
In my system, ranks are from 1-50 for both strength and skill and the 5 powers are also broken down between 1-10, but I have left that out in my notes below. Skill is not used when channelers compare themselves to one another because it is not easily determined like strength is (esp in the case of women). Nonetheless, I factor my own vision of how skilled channelers stack up based on how they are depicted in the books and the stereotypical spreads between men and women.
The One Power Stength Female
0: Unable to Channel
1 – 3: Beginner Novice, negligible
4-10: Novice, exceedingly weak
11-16: Accepted, very weak
17-21: Weak Aes Sedai, weak
22-26: Average Aes Sedai, average
27-31: Strong Aes Sedai, strong
32-36: Very Strong Aes Sedai, very strong
37-41: Exceedingly Strong Aes Sedai, exceedingly strong
42-49: Forsaken Strength
The One Power Strength Male
0: Unable to Channel
1-6: Beginner Soldier, negligible
7-13: Soldier, exceedingly weak
14-19: Dedicated, very weak
20-24: Weak Asha’man, weak
25-29: Average Asha’man, average
30-34: Strong Asha’man, strong
35-39: Very Strong Asha’man, very strong
40-43: Exceedingly Strong Asha’man, exceedingly strong
44-50: Forsaken Strength
The One Power Skill Female
0: Unable to Channel
1-6: Beginner Novice, negligible
7-13: Novice, exceedingly weak
14-19: Accepted, very weak
20-24: Weak Aes Sedai, weak
25-29: Average Aes Sedai, average
30-34: Strong Aes Sedai, strong
35-39: Very Strong Aes Sedai, very strong
40-43: Exceedingly Strong Aes Sedai, exceedingly strong
44-50: Forsaken Skill
The One Power Skill Male
0: Unable to Channel
1 – 3: Beginner Soldier, negligible
4-10: Soldier, exceedingly weak
11-16: Dedicated, very weak
17-21: Weak Asha’man, weak
22-26: Average Asha’man, average
27-31: Strong Asha’man, strong
32-36: Very Strong Asha’man, very strong
37-41: Exceedingly Strong Asha’man, exceedingly strong
42-49: Forsaken Skill
Notable Channelers
One Power Strength/Skill
Rand al’Thor: 50/50 (Strongest/Most skilled of all channelers)
Alivia: 46/47
Mazrim Taim: 46/44
Logain Ablar: 46/43
Jahar Narishma: 45/41
Nynaeve al’Meara: 44/47
Egwene al’Vere: 40/44
Elayne Trakand: 40/43
Aviendha: 40/42
Cadsuane Melaidhrin: 38/42
Damer Flinn: 36/33
Moiraine Damodred: 32/39 (Original)
Siuan Sanche: 32/39 (Original)
Elaida do Avriny a’Roihan: 32/38
Alviarin Freidhen: 29/34
Liandrin Guirale: 26/29
Verin Mathwin: 24/31
The Forsaken/The Chosen
One Power Strength/Skill
Ishamael (Moridin): 50/49 (Strongest/most skilled a male can be, excepting for DR)
Lanfear: 49/50 (Strongest/most skilled a female can be)
Aginor (Osan’gar): 48/49
Demandred: 48/48
Cyndane (Lanfear): 47/48
Sammael: 47/46
Rahvin: 46/45
Graendal: 45/48
Balthamel (Aran’gar): 45/44
Semirhage: 44/46
Be’lal: 44/43
Mesaana: 43/45
Asmodean: 43/42
Moghedien: 42/44
Unfortunately, these rankings outright contradict the books in numerous places. Cadsuane was not stronger than Eg., Ely.,& Av. Also, those three were explicitly stated as being at the same potential strength, even if Eg. was forced and reached it quicker than the other two. I can buy Alivia being at the same level as Lanfear, but Semirhage? Also, I guess variations within a level account for some, but Cyndane is expressly stated as being stronger than Graendal. And these are just some of the main channelers in the series.
I suppose these were just some rough notes the RJ had and not definitive at all. Oh well, expectations need to be tempered.
Graendal is 3(+10) according to the Kindle version of the Companion I bought, which makes sense given Graendal statement that Cyndane was “stronger”.
A Crown of Swords glossary entry contradicts Cadsuane being stronger. Fact is Elayne, Egwene and Aviendha have equal potential and will become stronger than Cadsuane.
Rahvin is a Juggernaut. Semirhage is a Juggernaut as well. There is a correlation in the novels between extreme strength and extreme height. Rahvin was certain he could beat Lanfear, no wonder, given his significant strength advantage. Semirhage was also not impressed with Lanfear in her POV’s.
So I wonder how many of these entry’s are Team Jordan vs. Jordan’s original. If these were indeed all Jordan’s, then it could be the case of their initial levels (not full potentials), then that would make more sense, especially with Egwene, Elayne and Aviendha.
It doesn’t say in Memory of Light, but I got the (strong) impression that Moiraine’s strength in the Power post-Finn was roughly equal to Sorilea’s, not at all as far below her as the chart indicates. And that isn’t simply because I didn’t want Moiraine to be that weak. But seriously, Sorilea could barely channel a lick. She demonstrated once (maybe twice) that she could create a very small ball of Fire. I thought post-Finn Moiraine might actually be just a bit lower than post-stilling Siuan and Leane. I mean, wasn’t she, Moiraine, still able to wrap Thom and/or Mat in bonds of Air? Seems like I remember that when they first emerged from the Tower of Ghenjei. I could be wrong, I admit freely. At least the Aelfinn/Eelfinn didn’t sap her of the Power completely, though.
By the way, you guys do know Cyndane is Lanfear, right? Much of the talk on here seems to indicate otherwise. And Cyndane’s strength wasn’t all that far reduced from Lanfear’s original strength.
Sidebar: I always found it interesting that Cyndane embraced her new identity so completely. She may have lamented her loss of strength, but she didn’t even think of herself as Lanfear or Mierin Eronaile anymore.
One last thing – I think Jordan may have been a little senile toward the end there (no disrespect intended toward the Great One at all!). It was obvious to me – and thousands, nay, tens of thousands of others – that Olver was clearly Gaidal Cain, yet Jordan said in an interview not too long before his death that Olver was not, indeed, Gaidal Cain. That should have been the end of that, right? Wrong. Birgitte may have been prematurely ripped out of The World of Dreams, but that is no reason to assume that Gaidal had not already been born. And wasn’t she, more often than not, a bit older than he anyway? Areina, anyone? Besides, it was about time for their arrival anyway, what with three ta’veren roaming the Earth. Just sayin’, their presence, being heroes of legend who are reborn all the time and all, was kind of necessary, was it not?
All that to say . . . Jordan could or might have said anything in an interview that could have later been proven inaccurate, or he may have simply changed his mind. Believe me, it happens. For example, I am, believe it or not, writing two novels currently, and I couldn’t name all the characters in them if my life depended on it. I started the second book first, then decided the second book (previously the first book) needed much more backstory than strategically placed flashbacks and memories could provide. In other words, I changed my mind in a big way. Already had more than a hundred pages written of the (now) sequel when I began writing the first segment of the story, and will likely have to toss most of it… <:cry:>
I think I must be misunderstanding something. On this chart Cadsuane is listed as being quite a bit stronger than Egwene/Elayne, when the books state several times that all 3 of the girls are stronger than her and imply that Nicola and Bode Cauthon match her, in potential, at least. What’s going on with the discrepancies?
Demandred would be the most skilled male Forsaken, given he is #2 in AoL behind LTT. He also leads their group of three, even though Semirhage=Lanfear in strength.
LTT is the most skilled channeler, period. He schools everyone with the Power. No male or female is his equal in skill.
Dexterity bonus is highly exaggerated and it can be increased according to the Companion, learning by doing.
Lanfear is certainly not the #2 most powerful Forsaken, given the likes of Rahvin&Demandred.
I wager that Grandael is the most skillfull female Forsaken. Both LTT and Ishamael respected her abilities, not to mention she was ready to take out Lanfear, she showed no fear whatsoever. Semirhage, who is equal to Lanfear is OP strength was not impressed by Lanfear.
@37 Olver cannot be Gaidal. Gaidal, while not “on screen” spoke with Birgitte in TAR, and was with the heroes at Falme. He couldn’t be there AND reincarnated as Olver at the same time. That timeline just doesn’t work.