Oh, look, it’s a Wheel of Time Reread. Must be Tuesday!
Today’s entry covers Part 9 of Chapter 37 of A Memory of Light, in which I mourn narrative budget cuts, praise Birgitte’s Just Say No (Sometimes) policy, and bet the Saldaeans wish they had a 25th Amendment.
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Chapter 37: The Last Battle [Part 9]
What Happens
Secure in the void, Tam calmly holds position at the point of the Two Rivers men’s wedge formation, cutting down Trollocs with his sword in a deadly dance. The Two Rivers men are barely holding, though, until they are rescued by a contingent of Borderlanders who force the Trollocs to retreat. Tam sheathes his sword and watches as Lan’s riders crush the routed Trollocs between themselves and the Legion of the Dragon. After, Lan approaches.
“I had long wondered,” Lan said to Tam. “About the man who had given Rand that heron-marked blade. I wondered if he had truly earned it. Now I know.” Lan raised his own sword in salute.
Tam asks if they’ve won, but Lan answers that they’ve only secured this part of the river, and advises Tam to be ready to fight again soon. He leaves. Then gateways open nearby, and thousands of people come through, mostly elderly and children. Puzzled, Tam goes over, and finds Berelain, who tells him the people are refugees from Caemlyn, who insisted on coming to fight.
“Pardon,” Tam said, “but this is a killing field.”
“So I tried to explain,” Berelain said, a hint of exasperation in her voice. “They claim they can be of use. Better than waiting out the Last Battle huddled together on the road to Whitebridge, so they say.”
Tam watches the children search among the dead for arrows and wounded, and he sees a host of Tinkers doing the same under the direction of several Yellow sisters. Tam is uneasy, but supposes it must be allowed. Berelain asks hesitantly if Tam has seen Galad Damodred, but Tam tells her he was sent downriver, and he hasn’t heard from him in hours.
Elayne closes Gareth Bryne’s eyes tenderly before having his body carried off the field. Birgitte says he just tore into the battle, screaming, and Elayne says Siuan must be dead. She pushes away her grief, and asks for updates. Birgitte reports that the Seanchan have apparently abandoned them, and she doesn’t know where Cauthon is. Elayne tells her that she, Elayne, will take back command until they hear from Mat. The situation here at the ford is not good, with the Trollocs slowly surrounding the Andorans and pressing in, fighting on into the night.
Her early assumptions that this battle would last days now seemed silly. The Shadow pushed with all of its might. Humankind did not have days remaining, but hours.
Captain Guybon approaches, and Elayne asks for advice from him, Birgitte, and Theodohr, commander of the cavalry. They are discussing the impossibility of retreat when a swath of balefire blazes through Elayne’s bodyguards and nearly kills Guybon.
“Lews Therin!” A power-enhanced voice rang over the field. “I hunt a woman you love! Come to me, coward! Fight!”
The earth explodes nearby, throwing Elayne from her horse. Birgitte hauls Elayne onto her own horse, and shouts at the bannerwoman to ride the other way and draw Demandred off while she gets the Queen to safety. Elayne protests that that is a death sentence, and she can’t leave, but Birgitte ignores her and gallops off. She points out to Elayne that Demandred is going for the command posts, first Dashar Knob and now her, and her duty is to get somewhere safe and secret to reassume command.
“Once we’re far enough away that Demandred’s scouts can’t sense you channeling, we’ll make a gateway and you will be back in control. Right now though, Elayne, you need to shut your mouth and let me protect you.”
Galad rides toward where Demandred is making a spectacle of himself, seeing his brother’s dead body in his arms over and over again. He thinks that nothing in his life had felt as right as this does. Galad kills a Sharan channeler that comes for him, and then shouts at Demandred, saying he is Rand al’Thor’s brother, here to fight in his stead.
Rand al’Thor. His brother. The shock of Gawyn’s death had numbed Galad to this revelation. He would have to deal with it eventually, if he survived. He still did not know if he would be proud or ashamed.
Demandred is intrigued at Galad’s claim, as well as by the “interesting artifact” he carries that protects him from channeling. He draws his sword, and hopes that Galad gives him more of a challenge than his other brother did.
Galad stepped forward into the ring of crossbowmen and channelers. If he won, he would still die. But Light, let him take one of the Forsaken with him. It would be a fitting end.
Demandred came at him, and the contest began.
Nynaeve works frantically to save Alanna’s life, and thinks of how some of the Yellows had mocked her reliance on ordinary healing techniques.
If any of those women had been here instead of Nynaeve, the world would have ended.
She sews up Alanna’s wound as best she can. Meanwhile, Rand and Moridin are not moving, but Nynaeve senses that Rand is fighting a fight she cannot see.
Davram Bashere expresses surprise that Mat is alive, and Mat replies he’s only failed at that once that he remembers, and “it hardly counts.” Mat expresses surprise that Bashere is on the field, and Bashere says he may not be able to lead, but he can still kill Trollocs.
At Tenobia’s fall, this man had become king of Saldaea—but he had refused the crown, so far. The corruption in his mind had shaken him. All he had said was that Saldaea fights alongside Malkier, and told the troops to look toward Lan. The throne would be sorted out if they all survived the Last Battle.
Bashere is dismayed at the news that the Seanchan have abandoned them. Mat is grateful for whoever had apparently distracted Demandred, which gives him a chance to shore up his own formations. Mat asks Bashere if anyone has heard from Faile, but Deira tells him no, and Mat wonders how he is going to win this without the Horn. Mat sends Bashere to aid Lan, ignoring his protests.
“I don’t care if you’ve bloody been touched by the Shadow!” Mat said. “Every man has had the Dark One’s fingers on his heart, and that’s the bloody truth. You can fight through it. Now ride to Lan and tell him what needs to be done!”
Bashere stiffened at first; then—strangely—he smiled a broad smile beneath drooping mustaches. Bloody Saldaeans. They liked being yelled at. Mat’s words seemed to give him heart, and he galloped off, wife at his side.
Mat needs a gateway, but he’s sent all the damane away. He heads for the Dragonsworn aiding Elayne’s troops, but stops at the sight of the Ogier, singing as they mow down Trollocs. He yells for Loial, and is shocked at how fierce his friend looks. He notes that some of the Seanchan Gardeners are fighting alongside the local Ogier, but seem to be keeping separate. He tells Loial he needs them, and Loial bellows to the others that “the Hornsounder commands!” Mat winces. They ride, Mat having a conversation with Karede over whether he is insane for seeking death so cavalierly.
Those dice kept rattling in his head. He also felt a pull from the north, a tugging, as if some threads around his chest were yanking on him.
Not now, Rand, he thought. I’m bloody busy.
No colors formed, only blackness. Dark as a Myrddraal’s heart. The tugging grew stronger.
Mat dismissed the vision. Not. Now.
He had work to do here. He had a plan. Light, let it work.
He finds Lady Tinna, commander of the Dragonsworn and also a channeler. Tinna tells him she cannot Travel herself, but a woman in red comes up and says she can, and Mat is overjoyed to recognize Teslyn. Teslyn tells Tinna she’ll need a circle, and asks where Mat is going. Mat tells her “the top of the Heights.” Karede protests that Mat just abandoned the Heights to the enemy, but Mat knows that the only way to prevent Demandred from surrounding them was to keep his troops from coming down from there. Karede points out that he is risking everything on this move, and Mat agrees.
“A strike at the enemy’s core, Mat?” Loial asked, hefting his axe. “It will not be the worst place I’ve found myself, following one of you three. I do hope Rand is all right. You do think so, don’t you?”
“If Rand were dead,” Mat said, “we’d know it. He’ll have to watch out for himself, without Matrim Cauthon saving him this time.”
He shouts orders to make ready; they must seize the northern slope of the Heights and hold it no matter what.
Commentary
I ain’t gonna lie, this chapter is sort of wearing me down, in a recapping sense. And I’ve still got (*checks*) 75 pages to go on it. God.
Of course, this is probably at least partly because this mega-chapter is meant to be a relentless grind, in certain ways, in order to get the reader feeling the same way the characters are feeling (which can probably be summed up with a weary fist-shaking cry of DOOOOOOMMMMM), but in my specific case it’s also because a whole hell of a lot more is happening on any given page of it than is generally typical. To say this chapter is dense would be to understate the case drastically. Which is rather a problem when you’re trying to summarize a thing in anything remotely approaching a concise manner.
It’s sort of interesting to realize that one of your problems, however minor it is in the grand scheme of things, is still probably a problem that just about no one else in the world has. I’m not sure if I should be proud of that or what.
Anyway, enough of my meta solipsism, let’s talk turkey.
Tam al’Thor is badass. Which we know because Lan said so, and if Lan thinks you are badass, then you are officially, like, at Olympic gold levels of badassery and everyone else can go home, thanks.
The men of the Two Rivers pushed forward, a thorn to the Dark One’s foot and a bramble to his hand.
Nice callback to Moiraine’s story, all the way back in TEOTW, of the legend of Manetheren, and its reminder that Tam’s badassery (not to mention that of most of the main cast) has historical precedent. I have issues with the idea that “blood will out” in the real world, but for epic fantasy purposes I’m more than willing to be thrilled by the notion.
As for the whole thing with allowing children onto battlefields, well, normally I would be all hell to the no on the entire notion, but I don’t think anyone could deny that this is just about the sole situation where it would be justifiable. Because really, if it’s the literal actual end of the world, than it’s all hands on deck, and we’ll all deal with the therapy bills once the apocalypse has been averted, mmmkay?
(But what therapy bills those would be, jeez. Digging through corpses for arrows, at the same age that I was spending stressing over memorizing multiplication tables and whether side ponytails were still cool or not is, uh. A lot. A lot a lot.)
Also, Berelain, you are not subtle. Tam will pass on your note (do you like me like me Galad circle one Y/N) at recess.
And aw, bye, Gareth Bryne. His death was not a surprise, of course, because of Siuan’s death earlier, so you knew that was going to follow, but wow, he got even less of an exit scene than Siuan did. And yes, time constraints etc., but I can acknowledge the necessity of conservative narrative budgeting while simultaneously being sad about what it means we don’t get to see. Plus there is just a sense of unfinishedness about Bryne and Siuan’s story that continues to bug me, which is mostly unrelated to their actual relationship with each other (which I think was pretty well resolved, by contrast), and is more about their other significant relationships in the story.
I’ve already spoken about my dissatisfaction with the lack of closure between Siuan and Moiraine (and, to a much lesser extent, between Siuan and Egwene), but I feel that there is nearly as much of a lack of closure between Bryne and the Trakands. Elayne and Gawyn, obviously, but even more with Morgase. I’m not a hundred percent on this, but I think Morgase and Bryne never even met up again after she turned up not dead, and that is just one more dangling plot thread that should have been tied up and wasn’t.
Is that right, that they never saw each other again? I can’t remember. In fact I don’t have the slightest idea where Morgase even is right now. So maybe I’m wrong about that, but nevertheless Gareth and Siuan definitely get put on the shelf of “story things that were sacrificed in the name of fucking finishing this series already.” So it goes.
Birgitte is also badass, even more for her ability to stand up to Elayne than for her battle prowess. It’s sort of a thing which is either so obvious as to not merit mention or eclipsed by the necessities of the situation, but Elayne is an incredibly willful character, to the point where she stands out in a cast of characters notorious for stubbornness being their primary characteristic. She is willful more often in a good way than she isn’t (or so I contend—I know there are folks who would disagree), but regardless of whether it’s a good thing or not, I think a lot of people tend to underestimate the guts it takes to hold your ground and disagree with someone with such conviction at their disposal. It’s even harder when that conviction is, to a large degree, based on valid reasons, not to mention backed up by the societal privilege of being, you know, royalty.
So all props to Birgitte to be able to more or less literally throw Elayne over her shoulder and be like, shut up and come with me if you want to live. And, more importantly, to know when to do that, and when to give Elayne free rein to do her thing despite the danger. It’s a delicate judgment call, to say the least.
Galad …Okay, you know, I think I was all prepared to be pissed at Galad for pulling this shit, but on reflection, I’m thinking maybe I shouldn’t be, at least not totally. Because, yes, normally going mano a mano on one of the Forsaken when you’re not even a channeler would be the height of idiocy (see: Gawyn), but in this case Galad does have the advantage of knowing that he is protected against channeling, which makes the idea at least marginally less insane.
Of course, Galad doesn’t know about that whole “indirect effects” loophole of the medallion ter’angreal, but fortunately for him it’s a moot point anyway, since Demandred’s pride is having him be all I will defeat you with the equivalent of my pinky finger, puny mortal, making it much less likely that Demandred would just pick up a boulder and smush Galad with it. So, er, yay for excessive hubris on all sides, I guess?
I can’t decide whether I like that Galad is willing to use his blood relationship with Rand to his advantage while still not really dealing with the actual reality of that situation or not, but you can’t deny that as a “getting Demandred’s attention” gambit, it was quite effective. That said, I will take (another) moment here to be disgruntled that we never get to see Galad deal with it with Rand in his presence. (Or, possibly, at all; I don’t remember if it ever gets addressed again after this.)
Nynaeve’s scene here is very short and transitory, but you do have to love that she manages to get in a (thoroughly justified, in my opinion) thumb of her nose to all the Yellows who never appreciated her genius in all things Healing. Take that, old school purists!
Mat’s scene here is… well, it’s mainly just setup for what’s going to follow on the battlefront, and as such it’s very important stuff, without actually being something I really feel the need to comment on until such time as it all comes to fruition. There were only two things which really caught my attention, both of them rather peripheral to the actual action.
First is Mat’s thought about how Bashere had refused the Saldaean crown after Tenobia’s death. Which is totally understandable under the mind-control-tastic circumstances, but still left me wondering who the hell was in charge of the Saldaeans, then, and how the uncertainty of that question could possibly not cause chaos. Sure, it’s maybe not reasonable to expect succession laws to have “So Your Presumptive Monarch’s Been Brainwashed” clauses written in, but still. Does that mean Faile is already automatically Queen? What do you do if one heir is mentally compromised and the other is M.I.A.? I’m just, saying, that’s all kind of bonkers, and somewhere, even in the middle of all this end-of-the-world stuff, you know there’s a historian tearing her hair out somewhere over it. Heh.
The other thing that caught my attention in Mat’s POV is the passing mention of how some of the Seanchan Ogier were fighting alongside the Randland Ogier, but only standoffishly. This is the kind of passing mention that I almost wish wasn’t in there at all, because of course my immediate geeky response was to want to know all about that dynamic: what are the relations between the two groups? Did the Randland Ogier know about the Seanchan Gardeners, and vice versa? Did they communicate before? How did that initial reunion/meeting go? What was said?
But of course, this came right along with the sad certainty that none of those questions were likely to be answered, because AMOL. Sigh.
Oh, though I should be all like, hi, Teslyn, right? Because… yeah. Hi, Teslyn! Glad you’re… not dead yet?
Yay? Sure, yay, why not.
And that’s what’s what for now, my little cheese blintzes! Have a week, and I’ll see you next Tuesday!
Tam is such an awesome person, I wish there were 6.5 billion more like him during this age. Mats’ happiness about Teslyn is a cool scene.
And some one some where has obviously opened a gateway into all the Hog farms in Iowa cause otherwise RJ and BS would not be able to continue pouring stuff onto the fan that is the Last Battle.
Hey Leigh and gang, Happy Tuesday!
Nynaeve’s scene: Okay, so here she is sewing up Alanna, brewing her an herbal remedy, holding on to a stalactite to keep from being sucked in to the Dark One’s maw (or did that wind subside and I don’t remember?), thumbing her nose at the Yellows, and, oh yes, feeding Rand enormous quantities of the One Power. Whew! Nynaeve is awesome, but seriously??? I had to go “time constraints…conservative narrative budgeting…because AMOL” too.
BWS: I feel your pain.
Does anybody have any idea who Tinna is? That’s one thing that really ate at me in this book, because it feels like she has to be somebody who we know about before under a different name, but I can’t imagine who.
I think the Saldaen’s follow the same theory as the other borderlanders during the hunt for the horn where the chain of command was known down to the last man standing, so they are simply following the first link in the chain that isn’t incapacitated.
This is why I love Mat so much. I don’t know if anything else could have uplifted Bashere as much as what Mat said to him. It was insightful and exactly what Bashere needed to hear. I bet Deira would have invited him to dinner if they had survived :(
ever since they introduced the ogier gardeners ive wanted to know more about them, like how they came to be so different culturally and how the randland orgiers would react/interact. :(
One of my favorite lines in the series is Lan’s observation to Tam concerning Tam’s prowess with the sword. That observation is so Lan. On the outside Lan is stoic (years of being a Warder). However, he is a keen observer with a fine sense of wit.
In hindsight, Mat’s off-hand comment to Bashere about mat having only failed once to stay alive — but it hardly counted — is poetic foreshadowing. I, of course, completely missed the significance of that throw away line.
At least when Bashere dies, he can accept who he is — in that the fact that he was compelled does not have to define him and prevent him from serving a role in the Battle of Merrilor.
The refuge children on the battlefield is a stark contrast to Egwene’s continued insistence on leaving the Accepted and all or the more mature novices in Mayene.
“I don’t think anyone could deny that this is just about the sole
situation where it would be justifiable. Because really, if it’s the
literal actual end of the world, than it’s all hands on deck, and we’ll
all deal with the therapy bills once the apocalypse has been averted,
mmmkay?” — Leigh.
Leigh’s comment sums it up nicely.
I am a big fan of Egwene. She is one of my 3 favorite characters. I usually agree with her decisions. However, leaving the Accepted and the novices (at least the more mature novices) at Mayene during the Battle of Merrilor was, IMO, wrong. No other way to sugar coat it.
Thanks for reading my musings,
AndrewB
Oh. my. gosh. I forgot how exhausting this chapter was! Leigh is the reread champion!
Go GALAD!!! And I have to admit I kind of like the idea that Berelain is all about him. I would like to see how that relationship plays out. And yeah, you’re in the middle of the Last Battle, deal with the knowledge that you have a half-brother afterwards, maybe. I respect his ability to put personal crap aside and concentrate on what’s happening right then, and even capitalizing on that new info!
Nothing less than what I would expect from Tam or Lan. Or Nynaeve for that matter. Or Mat – very cunning/daring sir.
Re: the novice in Mayene vs. the children on the battlefield – at least the novices in Mayene were serving a very valid purpose. They were helping with healing people who could go back to the battle (and sooner than normal, both because of Healing and because of Mayene being so much farther away from the time-dilation hole of Shayol Ghul). The children & Tinkers, as Berelain said, couldn’t do anything else but huddle on the road and wait – so they came where they could be useful.
Aside from the relative validity of the arguments from a reader perspective, the decisions are narratively appropriate for those who made them.
@4neverspeakawordagain
I believe (am not positive) that she was from AAAAAAAALL the way back in the Great Hunt, where Egwene mentioned a noblewoman from Toman Head had been taken as a damane.
Anyone else getting shades of the Ramayan cycle/story/Hindu myth in the ascending series of opponents for the ten-headed-demon king, err, Demandred?
re: Saldean succession
I think sebastianelgar@5 nailed it. They’re borderlanders, they most likely know their chain of command down to the last stable boy. Also it’s not like their army was decapitated, metaphorically speaking, there is still at least one command level above Tenobia (which Lan is a part of). So the Saldean army still has an intact internal structure with regard to the individual units and they’re still getting commands from HQ. Orders just skip one command level on account of acute existence failure on Tenobia’s part.
re: male Trakandian idiocy
Yeah, Galad’s plan is just as idiotic as Gawyn’s, self-preservation wise. But credit where credit’s due, in his case dying doesn’t fuck shit up on a massive scale. The Children can still function efficiently without him, they’re part of the Andoran forces anyway, and (see Saldeans) they’re getting their orders from higher up still. Unlike the Aes Sedai, who are more of an indipendent force and couldn’t even agree on Tarmon Gai’don actually happening right now like for realz without Egwene browbeating them into it.
So, unhealthy decision? Very much. Still worth a shot considering the consequences of failure? Sorta kinda, yeah.
re: Tam
Grade A badass, official Lan seal of approval. That is all.
re: Nynaeve
Grade A badass, official Lan marriage of approval. That is all.
acute existence failure on Tenobia’s part
That is awesomely funny, thanks
Did not Galad have orders to use the medallion to hunt down enemy channelers? And isn’t Demandred the biggest, baddest enemy channeler on the field? Plus his status as the Dragon’s brother did give him a bit of an “in” to the fight that would fix Demandred’s attention very nicely.
Galad was infinitely more justified in his attempt on Demandred than Gawyn was.
@12 Interesting take. The series is called “Wheel of Time”. There are probably many Hindu references many of us are unfamiliar with.
Re: Galad
I think there’s a big difference between sneaking away from the person you’re supposed to be guarding and carrying out orders to target certain types of enemies.
Leigh, you’re a trooper for doing this massive chapter – keep it up! We all appreciate it! You do fine work! /salute
In random order:
Saldaean chain of command ~ Loss of Tenobia was worse for the action of the forces, since she was behaving as a field officer. Bashere had already been lost to the command structure, once his compromised condition was known. Neither can be counted a disastrous monkey wrench in the works, as numerous levels of leadership know their given tasks. They were already assigned to support other nations’ forces, so those field commanders would assume control of them and carry on. All, of course, subject to the fog and chaos of war which exists in either case.
Galad ~ I lost suspension of disbelief over him ‘following in Gawyn’s folly’. It was simply too out of character, and especially with him becoming freshly twitterpated with Berelain. There’s a reason why the Old Testament provided for a year away from combat for newlywed soldiers.
Tam ~ As in the past, I react to his interaction with Lan differently than do many readers. Just as I hate the bumper-stickers which say “God said it, I believe it, that settles it”, I utterly disagree that Lan’s validation confers any status upon Tam al’Thor. In the case of the bumper sticker, no matter who believes what, if the Architect of the universe said it, it is so. In this case, Tam is what Tam is and always has been, no matter who does or does not salute him. Lan getting the chance to witness and acknowledge his valor is a great moment in the story, one that always chokes me up. But the suggestion that Tam gains that status because of Lan’s approval is like saying that the Earth became round because man proved it. Just saying.
Elayne ~ I’m surprised that the haters have not come out strongly at this opportunity to bash her. People are usually keen to believe that Elayne heartlessly uses her people to fight her battles. This is a notion which is wrong on two counts. Elayne does NOTHING heartlessly, as anyone paying attention could attest. And she sees those battles as not hers, but Andor’s, using soldiers sworn to their nation and its Queen. Now, in this scene, Birgitte sends a soldier off as bait while Elayne escapes, and Elayne doesn’t want to permit it, because it is likely suicide. There’s a huge difference between having people fight and die for a cause you mutually believe in (preservation of nation and freedom), and having people fight and die for your own safety. Elayne always acts consistently in these cases. Is she often too bold for her own good? Yes, but that’s always better than cowardice, if those are one’s choices. She obviously did not wish that bannerwoman to die as a distraction for her extraction.
Demandred ~ Either observed Galad’s approach, or else attempted to channel something at him before they engaged. Otherwise, I do not see how he would take note that Galad had the medallion. It does not exude any form of energy of its own, only deflects the Powers.
@Man-O: think Ny and Allina are in a sheltered area from the wind. That’s why she was hidden from view originally. So Ny is still being a badass, but does not have to fight the wind too.
I think it’s cool we get to see Tam be amazing with a sword in battle. Bonus that Lan sees it.
Guessing we are all tired of this chapter. Takes much longer to hit high number of comments currently.
Mat’ s death line, yep great setyup Hornsounder.
@Freelancer
I’ll agree with you that Lan saying it in and of itself doesn’t “prove” that Tam is awesome, but how many times has Leigh said over the years that her favorite scenes are the ones where one character gets to witness and figure out just how cool another character is…
No way she was going to pass up mentioning an instance near the end of the last book.
Well, the lights are still on, so I guess I’m not too late…
Great post as usual, Leigh.
Tam:
Is awesome, but that goes without saying, if even Lan compliments him. Totally agree with Leigh on that score.
Huh… I missed that little callback.
Birgitte:
Nice way to put your foot down!
Galad:
Does in fact have a better chance with the foxhead than Gawyn did with the rings. Doesn’t make it any less crazy, though…
Nice to know Loial is still kicking all the Shadow butts regionally available.
It is a little disappointing that the Seanchan Gardeners don’t get any more screen time; I agree that we ought to know what was up between the two groups.
I’d actually forgotten about Teslyn, even though she was in the previous book. Because, you know, big freakin’ book. ;)
Bzzz™.
Hell yes, is Tam awesomely badass. And what’s best about it is, while seeing Lan give him props for his courage and skill is enough in itself to endorse it (not give him his status, just acknowledge it exists because Lan should certainly be qualified to judge its quality), we actually do get treated to scenes of Tam fighting to back it up. Perhaps not as detailed as Jordan would have done it, but enough that I feel I can agree with Lan’s assessment, and not just because it’s Lan making it or because I like Tam. He certainly does exemplify the blood of Manetheren as noted by that wonderful Moiraine quote (which did indeed give me that wonderful shiver of recognition and resonance).
Berelain continues to be blatantly obvious, and to have men in awe of her beauty, even good old Tam. I also liked how his concern for the elderly and children turned into a sort of grim approval–that basically, even if they could be traumatized or killed, at least they were doing something to help, and since everyone is going to die anyway if they the Last Battle, they might as well be here doing some small part before their deaths come one way or the other. Though I have to wonder, considering their reluctance to help earlier even if it was just to provide healing or carry the wounded, supplies, and weapons away, how the Tinkers were convinced to finally help and who did it.
I can see why people would be upset over not getting to see Bryne’s final moments, but personally I wouldn’t care to see him actually cut down. And maybe I’m alone in this, but I happen to think that knowing he went charging into the enemy and probably took a lot of them with him as he died is pretty damn badass even though we didn’t get to actually see it…and seeing Elayne simply close his eyes and force herself to set aside her grief was actually very moving and emotional for me. I could easily envision that shot of Elayne closing his eyes if this were a miniseries, and I think it’s an effective image. It still made me cry when I first read it, even though we didn’t get to see what came before.
As for not getting closure with all the characters…while it’s true we never saw Bryne talk to Gawyn again after TGS (because Gawyn was always with Egwene while Bryne was off with Siuan and the army), I think the way they ended things, when Gawyn decided to go join the rebels and the two of them went to rescue Egwene, was still a warm ending to their relationship. I never got the impression he was close to Galad at all, so no need for a final farewell there, and he and Elayne did speak several times, including at Merrilor when he praised her acumen as queen and she tried to smooth over what happened with Morgase, only for him to say it’s all in the past but he’s moved on and broken ties by joining with Siuan and the Tower. As for Morgase, we’ll eventually see her with the Caemlyn refugees, helping with tending the wounded soldiers (Ila notices her), so apparently she’s been with them since Merrilor, perhaps at the hospital in Mayene. When Gawyn met her at Merrilor at the end of ToM, Bryne would have been off with the Tower army. I’m pretty sure he avoided meeting her again for the same reasons he gave Gawyn and Elayne.
Loved the bit with Birgitte. There were times when the way she treated Elayne annoyed the hell out of me, others where I was cheering her on. This was one of the latter. And what’s as amazing as her being strong enough to stand up to Elayne was that the reasons she gave Elayne were cogent and right–and Elayne accepted them. That takes as much strength of character as all the rest.
I remember the quote from Galad’s section which was used as one of the daily “Memories of Light” before the release–the one about the right thing always being clear, and that this time it felt more right than ever, that the streaks of light were like indicators on a map, arrows pointing his way, the Light itself guiding him and preparing him, placing him at this moment. It’s true–as someone said before, and I keep reiterating because I think their point is so right and important, if Gawyn had not gotten himself killed, Galad never would have fought Demandred, and him doing so and then being taken wounded back to Berelain is what let her bring the medallion back to Mat and instead give it to Lan. So Galad really was placed here by the Pattern–to distract Demandred so Elayne and Mat could escape, but also to set in motion the chain of events that would lead to Demandred’s demise.
I thought his still being in shock over Gawyn numbing him to what he learned about Rand was realistic, as was him not knowing if he’d be proud or ashamed. And while I loved his determination to take one of the Forsaken with him, I had to laugh and cheer at him pulling a Shut Up Hannibal to interrupt Demandred’s Reason You Suck Speech. “Do we fight or talk?” indeed! Side note: interesting to note Galad comparing Demandred to Rand, as it’s yet another example of Barid Bel always coming in second place.
Re: Nynaeve, I know many fans feel she was unimportant and underused, and that reducing her to clinging to stalagmites while healing Alanna wasn’t very badass. But her statement makes it very clear: if she hadn’t been there to heal her, Rand would have gone into Warder rage and all would have been lost. And I think it is important to emphasize that as awesome as Nynaeve has always been as a channeler, and as much as some might feel Alanna’s inclusion here is lame, the danger of her bond with Rand had been set up as a Chekhov’s Gun for half the series…and I think it is incredibly important that the reason Nynaeve had to be at the Last Battle, the role she had to fulfill to save the world, was not by fighting, but by staying true to her calling as a healer. That it was for someone she didn’t even really like, and that she did it the natural way instead of with the Power, only underscores the point. What she’s doing here isn’t action, and it may seem to smack too much of a typical feminine role, but I am sure Jordan, who had seen the horrors of war, did this on purpose–to make the whole of the Last Battle, or at least a big part of it, depend on someone not taking a life, but saving one. (Interesting contrast when compared with Perrin, the peaceful one, having to kill Lanfear to save Rand and the world. But that may be a case of knowing sometimes sacrifices, and deaths, really are the only way to win.)
I like how the Mat section starts–Bashere’s familiarity with him reminds us that the two of them were working in close quarters for quite some time, back in LoC and ACoS, to plan the Illian invasion, so even though that was the last time they saw each other before now thanks to Ebou Dar, it rings true that they’d still have this connection. It makes his pep talk to help him overcome being Compelled all that more, um, compelling.
While I can see how it would be upsetting to the Saldaeans, losing Tenobia, having Bashere Compelled, and then having Faile go missing, they are Borderlanders, nothing if not tenacious and strong-willed, so I’m pretty sure they could handle their country’s ill fortune, especially when they have something so big to focus on right now. Plus with all of them pretty much taking their orders from Lan and the Malkieri, it’s not like they don’t have good leadership. I also had to laugh, of course, at Davram and Deira’s reactions to Mat’s dressing-down; those crazy Saldaeans! Mat’s comment on thinking he might not be able to win even with the Horn was also typical of him.
I admit not knowing how the Gardeners and the Randland Ogier met, interacted, and got along is a bit frustrating, but Jordan always said we wouldn’t see or know everything, and we already got treated to this earlier–in KoD was when the whole idea of the Great Stump and the Book of Translation was brought up, and Loial went off with his mother to speak there…and then this all happened off-screen, with only the quote from the start of ToM to let us know what was going on there. So I can live with not knowing, though I think I can make some guesses on how they interacted and why they were standoffish based on how the Gardeners act as warriors all the time while Randland Ogier are peaceful. Until now that is…man, seeing Loial so badass and yet so fiercely dark is quite disconcerting.
Tinna is another fan shout-out, from what I understand, but once again I didn’t find her obtrusive and in fact I rather liked her. It was also nice to see Teslyn show up again, and I laughed aloud at Mat thinking about what it would be like to kiss her. It does make me wonder what happened to Joline though, she and Edesina are the only ones from that group we don’t know what happened to (since we can assume Thera stayed back at the Tower). I guess they did rejoin the Aes Sedai and are fighting somewhere? Speaking of fighting, Mat getting a flash of Rand only to see nothing but darkness, because Rand is inside the Dark One’s cloud fighting him, was pretty chilling for me. Good thing Perrin was asleep and healing, and never thought about Rand during any of this.
@9 Kikuo: Well said, I especially agree about Galad. He officially became awesome again in ToM and it only continued here.
@13 Randalator re: Nynaeve: LOL!
@15 Porphyrogenitus: This.
@18 Freelancer: I thought it was completely in character. He always does what is right, and avenging Gawyn, saving the Light’s forces, and following Mat’s orders all qualify for that. Interesting point regarding Elayne though, and I totally agree.
@20 wcarter: Very good point.
A lot of people are complaining about / unsatisfied with the lack of closure to a lot of storylines in this last book… I think this is the wrong perspective to look at this problem. The “mistake” was made in opening all those storylines and accumulating them until they grew to such a number, that even in splitting the planned last novel in three very large single volumes it was impossible to bring all of them to a satisfying conclusion. If you have dozens of plotlines, that all reasonably must end in the “last battle”, it becomes impossible to write this battle in a coherent manner and still finish all those individual stories. Basically, it was Jordans decision to expand the breadth of his story further and further, that made it so difficult to end it.
Of course, Galad doesn’t know about that whole “indirect effects” loophole of the medallion ter’angreal, but fortunately for him it’s a moot point anyway, since Demandred’s pride is having him be all I will defeat you with the equivalent of my pinky finger, puny mortal, making it much less likely that Demandred would just pick up a boulder and smush Galad with it.
Demandred did throw rocks. His pride still matters because he didn’t just tell the archers to shoot the assassins, but he didn’t avoid channeling in a swordfight to be fair.
@8 Normally I’d agree, but the Power is too unstable a force for untrained combat use. They would have been more hindrance than help. It’s far better for them to stay in a support role as batteries.
It’s easy to forget that the Accepted we follow through the books are exceptional cases that are not the norm, and even they would not have been suited for battle in the early books.
Re the Gardeners vs the Randland Ogier.
The Gardeners are part of the most elite unit of the Empire. The equivalent of today’s UK SAS or US Navy Seals etc. Just imagine if in wartime, one of these elite units was fighting some enemy, and a bunch of civilians were to turn up with weapons to fight at their side. I have no doubt that they would be grateful for all the assistance they could get, but to expect an elite unit to integrate with a bunch of civilians is asking a bit much.
So Jordan/Sanderson’s portrayal is actually quite accurate in terms of how you would expect the group dynamics to be – certainly in the initial stages.
Kah-thurak@23 – I agree and have made similar argument, BUT also kind of appreciate how RJ’s world becomes so “rich” just exactly because of the complexity and number of simultaneous crises and plot-lines. The real world IS complex, in spite of the almost comical way our present news coverage tends to focus on a single “story” to the exclusion of everything else – until the next “breaking” item.
My own point of fascination with the WOT puzzle is to wonder whether RJ himself had a strategy for resolution had he lived, and (if so) whether he could have pulled it off.
A question (which illustrates my naïveté and ignorance): do we have consensus or “scripture” (i.e., from BWS or Harriet) about WHICH of Mat’s death/near-death experiences voided his connection with the Horn? I recall some discussion, but don’t recall a settled conclusion.
@27. It’s the Balefire with Rahvin.
I’m pretty sure Jordan confirmed but beyond that when the heroes show up Mat comments on it being the hanging and the heroes say no it was another time he can’t even remember. Which points to the Balefire incident.
This seems like the right time in the re-read to mention that I felt that creating this monolithic “final battle” chapter felt artificial to me and was a “fail” in my final analysis. Based on the number of “tired of this chapter” comments, I’d say I’m vindicated. If this really needed to be one long epic chapter, readers wouldn’t have been able to put the book down until the chapter was done. Was that the case with most readers? I doubt it. Wasn’t the case with me.
Seems to me that creating this one long chapter was to draw attention to the epic-ness of this final battle, being the climax of decades of writing soooo many books. I can hear Sanderson saying “This is it! I’m going to put it all in one chapter so that you appreciate the hugeness of it, because it is so epic that to sub-divide it would be an injustice and a detraction from its greatness.”
But it wouldn’t have been an injustice in this case. Sanderson’s writing is good. But it’s not THAT good. So instead of being impressed that I just read a huge chapter and couldn’t put the book down, I was annoyed that there weren’t natural breaks in a chapter that I needed to read in pieces, so I just had to pick the stopping points myself.
I can’t help but contrast it with the famous Chapter 7 of The Bonehunters. Now that was a ~100 page chapter that did need to be one chapter. I couldn’t put the book down until I finished it. The writing was that good. This writing isn’t that good.
I would have put chapter breaks everytime we did a full circle of POVs.
There. I said it.
@Faculty Guy
I honestly dont think that RJ would have been able to finnish the series in the way Sanderson did. Take a look at Rand’s visit to Ebou Dar in The Gathering Storm. It is shown more or less as a flashback summary. RJ would not have done this. He would have spent half a book with Rand in Ebou Dar, picking up new plotlines as he went. RJ had many strengths as an author – sticking to a predetermined plan and ending plotlines were not ammong them.
A thought occured to me earlier regarding the lack of all the plotlines tying up.
Remember there are no beginnings or endings to the story. The closure of the book/series was only an ending (that being the war of the shadow).
Intentional? I could see that being the case.
I agree that there were a ton of plotlines (obviously) in this series and it’s likely that we never would’ve gotten a completely satisfying conclusion to every single one. There are several conversations and moments I had expected and looked forward to seeing ie. the meeting of the Ogier and the Gardener’s and some explanation there of why they were so different, if they knew each other, etc. I would’ve liked Moraine to have a larger role after her return, to see Rand talking to Galad and several other reunions we missed out on that have been mentioned throughout the re-read.
That being said, I personally wouldn’t trade the complexity, world building and interesting plot lines for a tidier ending. That sprawling feeling was one of my favorite things about the series. I fell in love with the world and was happy to spend time there learning about different aspects of it, seeing different adventures and new characters. Some of the books did drag a little for me and maybe a few of the storylines could’ve (should’ve?) been ended more quickly, especially the Shaido and the bowl of the winds. But in the end we did get a story where most everything seemed by the end to have a purpose, or at least to have helped the characters grow and get to where and what they needed to be for the last battle, which is quite an accomplishment in and of itself.
I enjoyed the last 3 books tremendously, especially on first read, it wasn’t until I finished and did a second read that I started to nit pick a little about the things I wished had been in there or things that had been handled differently. I didn’t love not seeing Rand reunions after the last battle but apparently that’s how R.J. envisioned it, and at least it gives the feeling of possibility that some of these conversations could happen in the future.
Did the whole last battle need to be one chapter? No. It’s so long I think it’s like 8 tracks in the audiobook. Maybe an argument could be made that war and battle are exhausting and don’t end when you’d like them to either, but I don’t know that reading about them should be exhausting for people.
re: unresolved plots
Well, RJ always said that not everything would be resolved with the last book. And personally, I think it makes sense. Even disregarding the issue of sheer page count restrictions, having that many plotlines neatly come to a close at the end of the last book would have felt very forced. Especially when it comes to plotlines that clearly extend far into the future (Seanchan civil war, Seanchan vs. Aiel, Saldean succession and its political ramifications for Andor/Duopotamia, etc.).
Let alone that you don’t always get closure in real life, either. I’m okay with WoT reflecting that and I really like the sense that life will go on in Randland after the last page. No “And they lived happily ever after”. There is still a world out there, lost ones to be mourned, stuff to be rebuilt, relationships to deal with…the Wheel keeps turning.
And that’s how it should be…
Complaining about Bryne and Siuan having unresolved plot lines due to them being murdered is a little silly – people who die unexpectedly ALWAYS have unfinished business!
Randalator @13, re: male Trakandian idiocy
Galad is not a Trakand. His mother (and Rand’s) belonged to a diferent House whose name escapes me at the moment, and his father is a Cairhienin Damodred.
Edit: House Mantear
Feelancer @18:
I think your first alternative is the more likely explanation. Just before coming up to Demandred Galad killed a channeler who tried to use the OP on him and failed. Demandred must have felt the channeler’s attempt and seen how it had no effect on Galad. It is unlikely he would have have tried channeling at Galad (and there is no indication he did) before Galad made it clear he was coming for him.
Tabbyfl55 @29. I disagree with you. I thought a 200 page chapter encompassing the Battle of Merrilor Field was a great idea. The entire chapter spans 24 hours. During that time, the fighting was constant. While not everybody was fighting for 24 hours straight, there were pockets of fighting going on all the time at various locations. IMO, including such action in one long chapter captured the singularity of the event — more so than if it were spaced over multiple chapters. Further, there were plenty of breaks. Each new POV was a break. Rather than one long chapter, I saw it as (~) 80 mini chapters.
Had I had the time and energy, I would loved to have read the entire 200 pages in one sitting. When I read it for the first time I found it rivating. Even when I read it on my re-reads, I still have a hard time putting it down if in the middle of a chapter.
Thanks for reading my musings,
AndrewB
Freelancer:
I can see how you might have read leigh’s comment to mean that Tam is great _because_ Lan said so, but that’s not how I read it, nor is that what I think anyone believes. Like the round Earth, Tam either is awesome or is not. But Lan’s appraisal is part of how we _know_ he is. (Another way we know is the fact that he just killed like a hundred trollocs.) Just as the curved horizon is part of how we _know_ the Earth is round. Facts exist independently of our awareness, but the ways that facts enter our awareness are relevant.
Leigh said that if Lan thinks you’re a badass then you are officially a really really big badass, paraphrasing. That in no way means that you aren’t one if Lan doesn’t see you. Lan’s appraisal is sufficient, not necessary, for us to trust that you are super cool, because we trust Lan’s judgement on the matter of badassery. In this case we’ve seen enough of Tam to judge this for ourselves, but if Lan said some character we’ve never seen was totally rad, I’d believe that. I wouldn’t think they gained that status because of Lan; I’d just know about it because of him.
Regarding the God bumper sticker, it seems to be only the “I believe it” part you don’t like? Would you approve of one that said “God said it, that settles it.”? How about one that said “God said it, that settles it. Oh, and by the way I happen to believe it, but that in no way affects the validity of the previous sentence, I just wanted you to know this about me.”? I ask because that last one is what I would understand the original sticker to be trying to communicate to me if I saw it on the road.
I can’t really conceive of someone who believes in God thinking that their personal beliefs have any effect on whether or not what God says is true. No one (or just a few insane people) thinks that God exists because of their belief in Him; rather, they believe in Him because they think He exists. Of course, now that I think about it, there are some portrayals of deities where the deity depends on believers for sustenance (as with the Summerian deities in the Epic of Gilgamesh who, after flooding the world in a way similar to the Biblical account, decide to never again depopulate the world because they were going hungry without the sacrifices; compare to God who made the decision out of compassion, rather than need), or is somehow an expression of their combined belief, which is known as an Egregore. But YHWH is not this. One of his primary characteristics is existing outside of time, space, or any other limiting factor, and so it would make no sense for a believer to think their beliefs had any effect on His validity.
Interestingly, some theories about the Dark One have touched on these two types of deity; does he exist always and forever, as the “imprisoned at the moment of Creation” bit seems to imply (but this is a statement made by humans in the story, and as such it’s accuracy can be doubted), or is he a manifestation of the capacity for evil in all people, such that to kill him, you would have to remove that capacity for evil, as in Rand’s no-free-will world?
Thanks Leigh!
Boy, AMOL is a mixed bag.
On the awesome side in this bit, and the book in general: Tam – I love how much we get to see of him at last – Lan and everything involving Demandred.
On the sucky side: Gareth Bryne. Like Siuan, a token acknowledgement of his death and its impact. This for characters who got their own chapter icons. Grrr! I can appreciate that now, in the middle of the breakneck action, a proper scene of mourning would have broken up the flow. But there should of been something at the end, like a scene with Morgase and Moiraine at a graveside.
@23. True. To be fair, if we got to have the outrigger novels I imagine a lot of things Seanchan-related, like the Gardeners and the other Ogier, would have got proper attention/resolution.
I didn’t have a problem with the size of the Last Battle chapter – I think it did reflect the epic scale of it, though as mentioned earlier the size of the battle itself doesn’t quite come through in the text.
By the way, awesome theology discussion on the last post, you brainy people you.
eep @38
Regarding the bumper sticker business, I agree with you, that the intent of the bumper sticker is as you suggest, that concurrence with the Almighty isn’t part of the formula, just a PS from the individual. And yet, how people take abbreviated statements is significant, and many who regularly mock Christianity take such statements to task, so I prefer they be accurate to the relevance of faith and doctrine.
Being ambiguous in one’s communication is an issue for me, and the same holds true with Leigh’s statement about Lan vis-a-vis Tam’s worthiness as a Blademaster. Certianly, Lan’s acknowledgement is valid, valuable, and moving (I did comment to that effect, if you’ll note). And certainly, every individual takes away from a written statement something influenced by their own filters. So it’s perfectly fine if I was the only one who saw an ambiguity with which I felt uncomfortable. That’s how discussions begin.
Ila and Raen see Morgase organizing efforts to recover weapons of war from the fallen about 30 pages from this point. That passing mention is the only time we hear of her in AMoL, IIRC.
I won’t say I was overjoyed with the length of this chapter–had to chew it up in a couple of bites–but I think the length communicated exactly what BWS and Team Jordan intended: the total exhaustion of those fighting the battle. Overall, AMoL took me on a roller coaster ride of emotions and physical states. That’s great writing IMO.
When Demandred commented about Galad’s ter’angreal, Galad felt it go cold. Demandred must have channeled at him.
Mat’s section in this part is vintage Mat and I would not be surprised if some of Mat’s thoughts from this part were taken directly from RJ’s notes on the last battle.
Regarding the Gardeners and RL Ogier, I was under the impression that the decision not to use the book of translation was a decision made by Ogier from all over the world, so that would have included the Seanchean gardeners as well. We get mention of went on there, but that would have made another great “one-off” short story akin to River of Souls – The Great Stump.
“The Great Battle done, but the world not done with battle.”
The fact that not all the storylines are wrapped up in AMOL is to me a demonstration of the strength of this world , a cause for hope, and an inspiration to future generations.
We can only hope that one day Team Jordan will determine that enough material was left by Robert Jordan to perhaps develop up some of these lines and that some person (or even persons!) will come along with the talent, desire, and humility to take on the task of writing some of these tales.
But even if the WOT encyclopedia is the final published word for this body of work, the Wheel goes on in our hearts.
But I didn’t feel exhausted. I felt annoyed. That’s why I call it a fail. It was plain to see that that was what he was trying to do, but it didn’t work on me. If the writing had been so good that I had been compelled to read the entire chapter in one sitting, THEN I would have felt exhausted at the end.
@Tabbyfl55
I read the entire chapter in one sitting, was enthralled, and exhausted.
Your view is valid for you, but to call the entire writing structure for this chapter a fail is a blanket statement based upon your limited point of view (as indeed all our POVs are limited, and that’s even a theme played with in this series). And blanket statments are, at best, not helpful to meaningful discussion and appreciation of a work of art.
If your desire to criticize the story’s writing style has logical backup and enough groundwork for your argument, go for it! Just do it smartly, instead of saying your feels alone, and calling the entire work of the chapter a fail due to how you digested the material.
Anecdotes are valuable, but so is logic and support. Both are needed to gain valuable perspective from each other
Again your view is valid for you, mine is for mine, and others are for theirs. That has no relation on the quality of writing IMO. That has to do with stylistic preferences and tastes on an individual level alone.
Tabbyfl55 @47
I would imagine the Lightside forces were feeling a little annoyed, as well as exhausted. So perhaps it did work on you as intended.
In TEOTW, we get a brief foreshadowing of how awesome Tam is when he fights the trollocs at the farm, and then later we see Lan inquiring about the heron-mark blade and the strange journey it made to a sheepherder’s farm. I see Lan’s remarks as closure and a shoutout to that conversation way back in chapter 8 of Eye. It also seems to be a roundabout way of acknowledging all the theorizing in the fan community about Tam’s history and possible awesomeness (did he save the King of Illian’s life during the Whitecloak Wars?), especially considering that we won’t get to read the Tam prequel novel.
@27 From a Reddit AMA: The explanation isn’t 100% direct but it implies the lightning is the cause of his death.
Shillster Why did Mat’s death break the bond with the Horn when his death was reversed with balefire? Wouldn’t it also reverse the breaking of the bond?
Brandon Sanderson This is one where I just let Team Jordan lead. They told me why the bond had been broken, and that the other death didn’t count. It was straight from RJ’s mouth, but was not included in the notes, so we just had to work with what we had.
WinespringBrother @50 – I sometimes wonder just how very many little things in these last three books, things that people have complained about so much, would have essentially the same answer: “…the details weren’t in the notes, so we had to work with what we had.” Essentially, that’s the story of these books: not everything was in the notes, so they had to work with what they had.
Harriet could, I suppose, have chosen to simply move to the Encyclopedia and give us “this is what he intended” with a list of stuff and no storytelling but what little RJ had left. Instead, she chose to find another storyteller – one with a different style, but one who would love and care for the story, and do his best to tell it well. I’m sure there are those who would disagree with me, but I’m extremely grateful that she chose as she did.
Wetlandernw@51 – a somewhat jolting observation which should make anyone think before criticizing. I sincerely hope that Harriet has never let criticism cause her to regrett her decision to allow completion of the series!
Faculty Guy @52 – Thank you. I find it really sad that people can be so intensely critical about minor issues, given the larger context of the series. I would never try to pretend that either Robert Jordan or Brandon Sanderson are perfect, or that everyone should simply adore, and shut up about things that aren’t to their liking. At the same time, I do believe that people should think a bit before spilling their quibbles in ad hominem attacks on people who have done a very good job in very difficult circumstances.
From my limited contact with Harriet, I think she continues to be pleased with her choice. She’s a professional editor, and a very good writer on her own. I know this was an exhausting project for her, and very bittersweet, but her husband wanted the story told, and so did she. She put in a lot of work to honor his wishes, and has repeatedly expressed her enjoyment of Brandon’s work on it.
For people who need chapter breaks in order to put a book down: never read any Terry Pratchett Discworld novel. Terry doesn´t do chapters at all. Just text breaks.
It could be worse. I started ´Inferno´ by Dan Brown today. That guy goes on an average of less than 5 pages for a chapter, where text breaks would have been better…
On topic:
I liked Lan saluting/acknowledging Tam’s sword skills for what it was: appreciation, and not passing an exam towards Badassness.
Freelancer commented on Elayne haters. Being one of those, I like to repeat that in this book I actually liked Elayne again for the first time since FoH (yes, I had no problem with the circus stuff). :)
Galad. Personally I would have liked it better if Galad actually had beaten/killed Demandred. So much irony in that ending there if that would have happened… (of course a channeler might have been needed to get him out of there, with all those arrows aimed at him, but still)
Thinking of missed chances, what I really would have liked to see is Bodewhin getting in trouble on the battlefield (assuming she is strong enough to assist), and Mat rescuing her. That would have made an awesome paragraph…
Re the Seanchan Ogier and the mainland Ogier:
In response to a question about them in an interview, RJ stated “They will meet.” I had hoped for a lot more, but acknowledge that the promise was kept.
Re the chapter length:
What’s with the whining? It’s not like someone put a gun to your head and said you must only stop reading on chapter boundaries. When you get tired, stop at a text break. The material would have been the same, whether or not it was interrupted by chapter headings.
macster@22
Agreed, and don’t forget Logain and Annoura’s parts. Logain’s attack allowed Annoura to rescue a wounded Galad (at great personal sacrifice) which included retrieving the medallion.
Also – all of those tries on Demandred (Gawyn, Galad, Logain) served to distract him and reduced the number of balefire blasts sent at the Lightside forces and generally eased the pressure on Mat. Given that, even Gawyn’s expensive personal sacrifice cannot be considered pointless.
I actually started liking Galad a lot better in this book and after he decided to face Demandred. He was finally presented with a personality, where in previous books he came off as sort of “right-wrong, black white” military version of Commander Data on Star Trek. And I agree, he is not as big of a screw up as his brother who Demandred iced.
I would also like to add a “yah” for Abell Cauthon. We know Tam, legend that he is, had previous military experience. Abell however is only ever described as a horse trader, and he has been consistently one of the leaders of the Two Rivers contingent, assisting Tam with planning and inspiration of the troops.
13. Randalator: “…re: Nynaeve
Grade A badass, official Lan marriage of approval. That is all….”
Agree, but Nynaeve was World Class Badass long before Lan got to know her. In some ways, she is the main character in this great lineup of great characters. She gets the “Best Actress” award, for my part.
18. Freelancer: Good take on Elayne. I love her character.
22. macster: Agree on your perception of Nyn in this situation. All Hell is breaking out around her, and she does what she does: saving lives using practical remedies, and feeding the Power to Rand. Go, Nyn!
First post here – found this site this week just after my first read of AMOL, so I’m a little behind the times. :)
Similar to @54 Fiddler and @57 BankstownBoy, I would like to have seen Mat have a reunion with the Cauthon family – Abell’s “That’s my boy!” would have been cool to have witnessed being said to Mat in person. Rand got to talk to Tam, and Perrin got a moment with Master Luhhan, his surviving father-figure – but not Mat. :(
With the Gardeners, why are they still fighting? Seanchan troops have withdrawn, the Gardeners are described as not being property and their position is “between them and the Empress”. Do they have a caveat saying: If its the last battle, all bets are off. Or were they left there by Tuon on the assumption that all Ogier look the same to Randlanders ;). I suspect the most likely option is just some continuity errors. Let me know your thoughts! I liked your point @26.
With the Bryne and Morgase reunion I’m happy this didn’t happen. It would not have been a very pleasant meeting. They have both moved on and are living separate lives. I think Bryne’s meeting with Elayne made this clear.
I loved the call back to the Two Rivers awesomeness line.
Also very happy that Bashere got to die with a somewhat clear mind/conscience. I can’t recall, but am assuming that he does get to Lan and gives the right message? Otherwise that would put a new and depressing light on that exchange..
@29
I love love love this crazy, frantic, epic, exhausting chapter in all of its length and I wouldn’t have it any other way. It’s a whirlwind worthy of the Last Battle and ends just where it should, IMO.
It’s the Last Battle. Anybody who wants to rtake a hand should be allowed to. Even children. Everybody’s got a stake here and every little bit helps.
Tam is just such a boss, but still all these years later the ogier dynamic still bugs me haha, what are they all about as a completely different faction? Are they standoffish because they’re whacko seanchan versions, or maybe ashamed they drifted from the homeland or something?