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The Wheel of Time Says Goodbye to Dear Friends in “Blood Calls Blood”

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The Wheel of Time Says Goodbye to Dear Friends in “Blood Calls Blood”

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Published on December 4, 2021

Credit: Jan Thijs
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Credit: Jan Thijs

We say goodbye to Kerene, meet some new friends, and have a few reunions this week on The Wheel of Time, in an all-in-all very emotional episode.

(These reviews might contain some minor spoilers for the Wheel of Time book series. Please note that the comment section may also contain spoilers for those unfamiliar with the book series.)

 

Summary

“Blood Calls Blood” opens on the Aes Sedai burying the dead, including the King of Ghealdan and Kerene. Stepin takes her ring and Moiraine murmurs a prayer as Kerene is laid to rest. One month later their caravan nears Tar Valon. Logain rides in chains, looking dejected. Lan expresses concern about Stepin, and reminds Moiraine that Warders are not supposed to outlive their Aes Sedai. They wonder about the location of Rand, Mat, Perrin, and Egwene.

Rand and Mat walk with some travelers. Mat snaps at a little boy. Rand sees a volcanic mountain in the distance that seems familiar to him, and climbs a hill to look down on the city, the White Tower, and the mountain beyond. Once in the city, Rand takes Mat to an inn Thom told him to find. Rand assures Mat, not for the first time, that the Fade killed the family at the farm, not him.

Credit: Jan Thijs

Moiraine and Lan hide Nynaeve in the Warder’s quarters. Moiraine warns Nynaeve about the Aes Sedai’s interest in making her a novice, and promises to let her know the moment she hears word of the others. Outside Tar Valon, the Tuatha’an caravan encounters Eamon Valda and a band of Whitecloaks. Valda spots Egwene and Perrin, but the Tinkers refuse to give them up, linking arms and forming a line. The Whitecloaks attack as Aram tries to lead Perrin and Egwene to safety, but they get captured.

Rand meets an Ogier named Loial (Hammed Animashaun), who believes Rand to be an Aielman because of his red hair. Rand and Mat watch the arrival of the Aes Sedai procession. As he passes, Logain looks up at them and begins laughing. Mat asks Rand to make a deal that they won’t let each other end up like Logain. At the Tower, Ihvon, Maksim, and Lan help Stepin dress in mourning white, and Stepin talks of how he met Kerene. They escort Stepin to another room where he kisses Kerene’s ring and places it in a fiery basin of liquid metal.

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In the Whitecloak camp, Egwene is stripped, washed, and forced into new clothes, then brought to Valda’s tent and tied to a chair. Perrin is strapped down on a rack. Valda tells Egwene that he knows she can touch the One Power. He takes a knife to Perrin’s back, and Perrin’s eyes turn golden as he cries out. Valda gives Egwene a choice; if she channels, Valda will kill her and let Perrin go. If she doesn’t, he will kill Perrin and let her go.

Stepin visits Nynaeve to ask for tea to help him sleep. After, Nynaeve runs into Liandrin in the hallway.

Loial finds Nynaeve at the White Tower and brings her to Rand and Mat. Mat is pleased to see her, but his demeanor changes to hostility when she tries to examine him. Outside, Rand tells Nynaeve that he believes Mat can channel, but that he’s not sure if they can trust Moiraine. Nynaeve says they don’t need the Aes Sedai, and that Two Rivers folk take care of each other.

In the Whitecloak tent, Egwene tries to channel Valda’s knife to her. Perrin insists that she let him die, and tells her the truth about Laila’s death. Valda returns and begins torturing Perrin again. Outside wolves begin to howl. Egwene assures Perrin that Laila’s death wasn’t his fault, then concentrates, telling herself to drift. She shoots a tiny fireball at Valda and then, while he is distracted, she burns away Perrin’s bindings. Perrin breaks free, yellow-eyed and snarling like a wolf, and Valda drops his knife in terror. Egwene stabs him with it and snatches Valda’s chain of Aes Sedai rings as they flee. Outside the Whitecloaks are being viciously killed by wolves, but Perrin knows that the wolves won’t hurt them.

In the White Tower, Liandrin confronts Moiraine about Nynaeve. Lan finds Stepin making offerings to ward off the Forsaken. He says he is trying to keep away Ishamael, the father of lies, so that they can see clearly. Lan promises to stay with him until morning.

Meanwhile, Moiraine and Alanna discuss Alanna’s offer to make Stepin another of her Warders. Alanna is worried about Moiraine’s enemies in the Tower; Liandrin is gaining strength amongst the sisters, and the Amyrlin Seat has returned. She warns Moiraine that someday she will have to trust someone with her secrets. When she is gone, Moiraine looks at a painting.

Lan and Stepin share tea. Stepin asks about Nynaeve, how she touched the One Power for the first time to save Lan’s life. Lan says it’s a bad idea for her to fall for him, and Stepin points out that without love, life would be intolerable. In the morning Lan wakes, groggy and still holding his teacup. He realizes that he’s been drugged, and runs to find Stepin in the hallway—he has killed himself.

Moiraine and Nynaeve attend the Warders’ funeral for Stepin. Lan wails in grief as tears fall down Moiraine’s face.

 

Analysis

It’s a shame that The Wheel of Time is only going to have an eight-episode season, given the density of the story and the number of main characters. However, the show doesn’t feel hurried; there is a lot of time spent on conversational moments and getting to know the characters, what they’re feeling and how they connect to each other. This is especially true when it comes to Moiraine and Lan, and Moiraine is really the main character of season one, even before the five Two Rivers folks and whoever turns out to be the Dragon Reborn. This focus on character and world building means that the plot gets slightly rushed over or muddied—most viewers would probably like some clarification at this point about men channeling, what exactly Moiraine is trying to accomplish, and what the deal is with this person called the Dragon and the coming of the Last Battle. But at the end of the day, it’s nice to feel so rooted in a world, and to really get to know the people whose journey we are following.

This episode has also given us a lot of worldbuilding around the lives of Aes Sedai and Warders, and yet still managed to devote a lot of attention to Egwene, Perrin, Nynaeve, Rand, and Mat. It’s probably my favorite episode so far.

The character of Egwene in the novels is an absolute badass, but of all our heroes she probably gets the least amount of time spent on her own desires, feelings, and fears. Whenever the narrative spends time in her point of view, her thoughts are almost always plot-focused; Nynaeve and the boys get much more time to be up in their feelings about their difficult destinies, their personal foibles, and how frustrated or angry they are at everybody around them. I feel like I know this Egwene better than I knew the other version three books in, and the show manages to capture all of what makes the character great while also making her a more well-rounded and relatable person.

Madeleine Madden really got to come into her own in this episode, as Egwene is doing less reacting and really taking center stage in the action. The moment in the tent where she centered herself enough to touch the Source was really powerful, as was the way she deflected from her channeling to free Perrin by throwing the tiny fireball at Valda.

This episode really builds on the theme of what it is like to be a woman in the world of The Wheel of Time. They are the only ones who can hold the One Power, but most societies are largely male-dominated, as Liandrin points out. The episode weaves this theme very well, showing the internal struggles in the White Tower as well as the conflict between them and the Whitecloaks, as Valda accuses the Aes Sedai of “walking like gods among men” and declares his belief that the One Power is unnatural and comes from the Dark. Even the Whitecloaks’ confrontation with the Tuatha’an fits this theme, since Ila is their leader and our ambassador for the pacifist philosophy of The Way of the Leaf.

Credit: Jan Thijs

I want to note here that this effect feels marred by colorism in the casting for The Wheel of Time. Abdul Salis is an absolutely incredible actor, but one can’t ignore that there are only a few dark-skinned black actors, all men, who have speaking roles in The Wheel of Time, two of whom are playing villains. The encounter between the Whitecloaks and the Tuatha’an is very evocative of the peace protests in the 60s, with the Tuatha’an’s colorful clothes, vegetarianism, and pacifist ways coming up against the Whitecloaks’ buzzed haircuts and military dress. However, it feels irresponsible here to have a dark-skinned black man as the villain facing off against a group of people who are all of lighter skin tone than he, and who are being led by a white woman.

The Wheel of Time does very well in many arenas of casting; it has middle-aged women of color in prominent roles, some queer representation, depicts Aes Sedai wearing head coverings, and contains diverse populations in every town and city we’ve seen so far. But in some ways that makes the places where they fall down all the more glaring.

Stepin’s grief over Kerene’s death is palpable throughout the episode, and it allows the characters to explore what the Aes Sedai/Warder Bond means in a much deeper way than Stepin’s brief explanation to Nynaeve. We see concern from Moiraine about what might happen to Lan if she were to be killed, and get an interesting comment from Liandrin about the statues representing “the tens of thousands of men who Bonded themselves to [her] sisters,” and how the statues stand guard outside the Hall of the Tower “in death as they did in life.” It’s unclear if Liandrin’s tone is due to the fact that she just dislikes the entire existence of Warders or if she finds a certain sadness in that endless watch—a bit of perplexed sympathy for people who would give up so much for that duty. Either way, the commentary adds interesting flavor to what is otherwise just a stereotype of (literal) misandry that surrounds the Red Ajah in the novels.

But it’s not just the friendships between Aes Sedai and Warders that important here. The episode also spends time on the relationships that the Aes Sedai share with each other, and shows how, even among women she calls her sisters, Moiraine stands apart and alone from others. Both Liandrin and the Amyrlin Seat are her enemies, Alanna warns, as the Green sister worries that her friend’s secrets will destroy her. No wonder that Moiraine shows so much compassion to Nynaeve, despite Nynaeve’s contempt for the Aes Sedai. Moiraine knows what it is to stand alone. You can definitely imagine her giving that same speech to each of the Two Rivers folk—one of them is the Dragon, after all, and every one of them has a powerful destiny that will make them stand apart from the others that they love. Moiraine will understand that pain, and hopefully be able to guide them through it.

Stepin and Lan’s relationship is clearly a close one, and Stepin feels a little bit like a big brother to Lan—we saw him tease Lan in episode four and they clearly often train together. In this episode, he pushes Lan to open up about his feelings, giving him advice about the importance of love even as he is struggling with his own grief. The connection between the Warders is clearly a strong one; they are brothers in every way that the Aes Sedai are sisters—as Maksim says, the White Tower is their family. Daniel Henney brings so much soul to his performance as Lan, and the small scene where he comes to Moiraine in her room and grasps her hand was almost as moving as the funeral in which Lan finally lets himself express his emotions.

Rand and Mat’s fear about Mat’s condition is palpable, and although I haven’t much cared for the way Mat is portrayed in the show, the scene on the balcony was really beautiful, and it finally gives us a look into what Mat is actually feeling about what he’s going through. But Rand is still mostly an observer in this story, as the scene with Nynaeve acknowledges. He is presented as a very kind character, but other than that his focus has mostly been on other people—first Egwene, then Mat—and we really don’t know very much else about him. He doesn’t have the quick key-in that Mat and Perrin have been given in the show, and the viewers’ connection to him suffers because of it.

Credit: Jan Thijs

There is that bit where Loial believes he is an Aielman, however. Viewers will remember the dead Aiel from episode three, and how Thom explains to Mat that red hair is one of their distinctive traits, and rare to find other places. One wonders why Thom didn’t have any questions about Rand’s lineage, but perhaps he was too busy worrying about Mat possibly being a channeler to pay attention. Oh, and there’s the Fade that attacked them. Busy few days for the gleeman.

Loial is a delight, though he isn’t in the episode very much. I really enjoyed his lines, and the show tweaked them so they sounded a little less like—but still delightfully reminiscent of—Quickbeam and Treebeard from The Lord of the Rings. I really hope he gets more screen time soon, since it’s difficult to juggle this large and ever-expanding cast.

Nynaeve’s story about Egwene suffering from breakbone fever as a child built up Egwene’s character very well, but it also showed Nynaeve in a moment of open vulnerability, and reminded us that her protectiveness over the Two Rivers folk is not just an abstract duty—she feels it very deeply, both as a responsibility and as a deep and abiding love for her people. She might be stubborn to the point of foolishness at time, but she is also capable of a truly powerful love—the same love that she tapped into when she Healed Lan. Liandrin thinks Nynaeve’s desire to have everyone follow the rules would lead her to choose the Red Ajah, but it’s clear that love is a much stronger driving force in her life.

 

Interesting Notes and Easter Eggs:

  • “Blood Calls Blood” is the title of Chapter 7 of The Great Hunt.
  • When Kerene is laid to rest, Moiraine murmurs over her grave “May the last embrace of the Mother welcome you home.” This is a phrase used in the Borderlands, who refer to the Earth as “the mother.” Kerene is from the Borderlands in the novels, and specifically stated to be from Kandor, a Borderland nation, in the show.
  • Lan notes that the offerings that Stepin is giving are to ward off the Forsaken. These are powerful channelers who, in the Last Age, sold their soul to the Dark One in return for eternal life. The men note that the last Dragon “sealed the Forsaken away” but some people believe that they may still be able to touch the world.
  • Ishamael. There’s that name again!
  • In the library, Rand picks up a book and exclaims “The Karaethon Cycle.” This is a collection of the Foretellings around the Dragon Reborn and what their arrival will mean for the world. Rand also looks at “The Travels of Jain Farstrider,” a popular book in the westlands. Jain Farstrider is a real person, and Egwene believing that she is Jain reincarnated is an especially lovely bit of worldbuilding since Jain was a man.
  • Let’s play Spot Padan Fain! Did you catch him there in the procession scene? He’s sitting and laughing to himself as three novices in white walk past.
  • I love the subtle dig at the text in Rand calling Loial an ogre before being corrected.
Credit: Jan Thijs
  • What was that creepy/sexy energy with Liandrin stroking Moiraine’s face? Because I have feelings.
  • Favorite line: “It was all worth it to see Liandrin’s face when she accidentally got hit with a radish.”
  • Runner up: “This saddle is home. This cloak, these boots, this brooding man at my side.”

 

Next week is in many ways the week I’ve been waiting for; the Amyrlin Seat is coming home to the Tower. I’m sure you’re all as excited as I am. As always, the comments will be open on Monday, and be sure to join us next Saturday for our review of episode six: “The Flame of Tar Valon.”

Sylas K Barrett is a writer, actor, and long-time fan of epic journeys, heroes, and magic. You can find other reviews and op-eds here on Tor.com, including his ongoing Reading the Wheel of Time series, in which he reads the novels for the first time and engages in both critical analogy and a fair bit of fanboy glee.

About the Author

Sylas K Barrett

Author

Sylas K Barrett is a queer writer and creative based in Brooklyn. A fan of nature, character work, and long flowery descriptions, Sylas has been heading up Reading the Wheel of Time since 2018. You can (occasionally) find him on social media on Bluesky (@thatsyguy.bsky.social) and Instagram (@thatsyguy)
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3 years ago

Generally a good episode, and interesting seeing how they’re pulling different parts from Caemlyn in the books into Tar Valon.

I both agree and disagree with them not rushing things; they are indeed showing us some of the quieter moments, and that’s key to both the characters and giving us the sense that there’s more going on. However, there are other times where things DID feel quite rushed, and for me in this episode, that was most illustrated by Loial’s bringing of Nynaeve to Rand. The intro to Loial was very good, and the scene with the three TR folk was also very well done, but the Liandrin telling Nynaeve about the gardens, then Loial mentioning he had access to those gardens as he’s introducing Nynaeve, that was pretty blatant moving pieces about.

Now, I also don’t know how they’d do that without adding a whole bunch of filler scenes, so given constraints, this may have been the best of the options, but it did feel a little rushed in that specific moment.

Also, I do agree that where they chose to prioritize their scenes in this episode was very good, so there’s nothing I would have cut, just a small complaint (where I’m otherwise quite enjoying things).

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3 years ago

Hate Loial’s make up. Not even close. But as I said, this show is it’s own thing. Just forget the books. 

Randland IS NOT a male dominated world, not even close. What it is is a world where distrust divides men and women and they work against rather than with each other. In most places men are at some disadvantage. In a few they are actively persecuted. In All women are the first sex. But that’s the book and this is a television show.

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3 years ago

I have a big picture question rather than a complaint.  While i really liked the focus on warders and their daily lives in the field last episode, and the scenes in this episode involving Peter Franzen were amazing (what an actor!), why did they devote THIS particular episode (Season one, ep. 5) to second warder-focused episode centered on a deep dive on how much the death of an AS affects her warder?  I guess there is such as thing as playing the long game but jeez….

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3 years ago

Only three more episodes?? OMG. So many questions that will probably remain unanswered, but I will resist asking the internet for the answers. I did not read the books, so I am probably happier with this adaptation than people who have. 

I agree that while Abdul Salis is splendid in the role, it momentarily throws me out of the story each time he appears. In a cast so diverse as this, it seems an unfortunate choice to make the Big Bad the darkest-skinned person in the cast.

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3 years ago

There were some aspects of this episode that was my favorite, which is getting some of the deeper look at things like the White Tower and exploring other characters (like Alanna), as well as getting a good look at the Warder bond.  I do wonder if, pacing wise it was the right amoutn of time propoportional to the rest of the story to spend, but I did enjoy it.  As soon as Stepin asked for the tea I yelling at Nyneave not to give him the whole packet (especially as her next scene was all about her talking about using tea to ‘ease somebody’s passing’) – although I suppose it was a bit of a subversion in that he didn’t actually use the tea to kill himself.

I really enjoyed that it showed men being emotive, supportive, comunicating, expressing grief, but in some ways it almost felt undercut by the fact that he killed himself anyway.  I’m not sure if they really developed that it’s an almost undeniable compulsion for a Warder, as opposed to him just being sad about it.  I was actually wondering (and even kind of hoping) if they were going to conflate Alanna and Myrelle and have Alanna be able to save him. 

Clearly, the foreshadowing there was thick though :)

The speech about Egwene being unbreakable and the cut to her was pretty great and also I think some good foreshadowing to both the Seanchan and her time in Elaida’s Tower. (I really hope they aren’t cutting Elaida and just merging her with Liandrin).

I did really enjoy the stuff with Rand and Mat in Tar Valon and am VERY pleased that they added Logain’s procession and his seemingly mad laughter at seeing the boys as that’s one of my favorite little bits of character development for Logain (even though you don’t know exactly why he laughed until much later).  Loial was great, I liked the little nods to things like the Karaehton Cycle and Jain Farstrider.  I also wonder if they are trying to make it somewhat ambiguous that maybe Mat DID kill the little girl even if the Fade did most of it.

That said the time skip was a little frustrating and I’m watching the show with both book readers and non-book reader, and the non-book reader is not terribly impressed.  She has mentioned multiple times the scope and worldbuilding feels underwhelming,  shallow and that Tar Valon specifically looked cheap and generic and very small/bland.  (She works in costuming and things like that so she may have a more critical eye). 

I really liked the Tinkers peace chain as well.  As for Valda – I am wondering how/why he knew she was able to channel? Are we supposed to intuit that he is crazy, or that he somehow recognized Moiraine (perhaps after the fact) and realized she must be an Aes Sedai candidate?

As for the casting, in my opinion it makes it feel more real that sometimes people don’t fall along what our preferred proportions would be.  Should they turn away a talented actor because they don’t want a black man playing him? Unless they specifically cast him because they wanted to evoke that imagery, or wanted to play up on other stereotypes…I’m not sure what the right answer is.  But it’s always hard with a trend to pin point which version is ‘wrong’.   (And fwiw I actually thougt the lead Tinkers WERE people of color so I didn’t really get a vibe from that.) But it did occur to me that given Fain also being black and what his future will be that it could start to look uncomfortable.

I’d have to go back to the books again but I also don’t remember Randland actually being an outwardly misogynist place in the same way our culture is, and I feel like sometimes they are trying to play too much on our OWN notions of the world.  I think some Reds do have Liandrin’s attitude but if I recall, Liandrin in the books was driven more by snobbery/superiority and an internalized hatred of her own low class upbringing. 

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3 years ago

I’m also wondering, based on dialog in this Ep., whether the show is teeing up Liandrin as a combined character who will be replacing an important AS character – name beginning with E – who has not yet made an appearance. Kate Fleetwood is doing an amazing job as creepy but compelling Liandrin but somethings will be lost if they have her fully serve as the stand in for E

Edit – I see Lisamarie had the same thought.  .  

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3 years ago

I’m wondering if they plan to combine Logain with Taim and make Nynaeve the lost queen of Malkier!

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3 years ago

@6 – yeah, and I don’t know that I want that.  I think part of the genius of Elaida’s character is that she is NOT Black Ajah, shes’s just a horribly misguided person who think they are on Team Light, and who is being manipulated by the Black Ajah.

So in some ways the plot thread loses something if it’s just Black Ajah Liandrin who takes over (unless they are going to make her not Black Ajah).

However, given that other Caemlyn related stuff got pushed to Season 2 (Elayne, for example) they may just be waiting until then to introduce her. I could see Liandrin maybe being merged with Alviarin (another BA whispering in Elaida’s ear).

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3 years ago

Yep, misogyny in Randland in the books is not at all as strong as is being declared in the show. Only Amadicia, practically controlled by the Whitecloacks, is significantly such, in a way that was/is in real life, iirc.

Obviously the TV show is introducing current real world social topics that aren’t in the books. E.g. the White Tower, led by a woman from the lowest society rank in her homeland and eager for recruits, turning away a candidate because she was dressed shabbily. Though that was probably just lazy writing, not bothering to think of less banal reason for Nyn to dislike AS.

I too enjoy the quieter, character building moments. Not always sure with the choices of when, how long, and with whom these moments are, but in general it’s a good thing. It would’ve been nice if they managed some more of this before the attack on EF in ep1.

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3 years ago

In the show Liandrin might not be BA. She seemed genuinely upset with Logain when he killed Korene and was risking herself in a fashion that was fundamentally different from the types of DF like book Liandrin. Selfish etc.

They may keep us wondering if she, and other characters I guees, are DFs, too.

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3 years ago

@9 – I think I mentioned this in a different review, but I HATED that bit of backstory for Nyneave.

The Tower is dwindling. They are not going to turn away recruits no matter how shabby, nor do they care about such things.  If it turns out to be a misdirect/unreliable narration, that’s one thing, but if it’s just lazy worldbuilding it irritates me, especially as Nyneave does not need additional reasons to dislike AS anyway. It undercuts her real reasons and fierce protectiveness for her people.

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3 years ago

Regarding the Whitecloaks – I suppose it is possible that their hatred of Aes Sedai and of people using the Power because it puts them above the Creator is somehow subconsciously driven by the fact that it’s women that primarily use it (although they certainly have no more tolerance for men who use the Power either) but I am not sure there is anything textually or even subtextually that supports that, nor is there a good cultural reason for them to come to that conclusion (some pre-existing prejudice about women that would lead them to be that way) as opposed to the reason given, which is that Mantear formed the organization after the Breaking and blamed the Power (wielded by men) and people meddling in things that were ‘beyond’ them.

I can see it going the other way – groups that are particularly against Aes Sedai may then translate those ideas towards women in general, but in general they seem to be pretty virulent towards men and women both (even if they don’t channel). Plus this quote: “The sins of the mother are visited to the fifth generation and the sins of the father to the tenth.”

Obviously people in general aren’t fond of Aes Sedai, but it’s more for their sneakiness and maneuvering…I don’t know that it’s specifically about them being women or a feeling that women shouldn’t be in charge in general.  Different cultures do have different proscribed roles, some more rigidly defined than others, of course.

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Austin
3 years ago

Abdul Salis is an absolutely incredible actor, but one can’t ignore that there are only a few dark-skinned black actors, all men, who have speaking roles in The Wheel of Time, two of whom are playing villains.

Not to get sidetracked on a race discussion, but I think I might need some clarification from the author. I’ve recently been reading a lot about colorism (the degree of how black someone’s skin is within the black community) in the media, and I assume that is what the author is referring to? Zoë Robins, after all, is black, prominent, and not a man. That seems like an…odd subject for this author to discuss. Thus the need for clarification if this was meant to be a criticism of the use of black actors against the rest of the ethnicities of the cast, or a critique of the darkness of the skin amongst the black actors.

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3 years ago

@11, I think there’s a chance she does get turned away. IIRC from the books, if she could touch the OP but wasn’t a wilder, and wasn’t a risk of coming into the talent without training nor a potential strong channeler, especially if she was older than a traditional novice, she would have been turned away, no? Now, there’s a lot of ifs in that statement, but I don’t think its necessarily a super weak argument, though I do think it’s an unnecessary addition to her already strong protective drive.

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3 years ago

@@@@@ 11, 12

It doesn’t appear to me that they are using unreliable narration in the show. Could be a misdirect, but I doubt it. I think it was just one dialog line used to “flavour” the world building and as well as Nyn’s character background. I doubt any of it will be referenced again. Also, looking at the AS costumes, it really doesn’t make any sense! Not that they are bad, but they aren’t exactly suitblte for the court of Luis XIV at Versailles either…

Re whitecloacks and misogyny, my point was about the country in Randland (should we be calling Westlands now?) that I think can be pointed to be suffering from recognisable forms of it. As opposed to the whole continent, which obviously isn’t as a whole. It would’ve been odd not to mention that the WC are based in it. I don’t think it’s a coincidence. Haven’t thought deeply about it though.

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Ellen
3 years ago

@14 I’m pretty sure it was a critique that among the black actors, the ones with the darkest skin are both male and villainous. It would help combat colorism to have dark-skinned actors in a variety of roles.

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3 years ago

I think there’s a lot of premature worrying going on here.  Given that WoT the books have a heavy emphasis on unreliable narration and that the show has made it explicitly clear that it’s going to do the same, I absolutely think that’s what’s going on here.  Liandrin especially is not a reliable judge on the balance of men’s power vs. women’s power in the world.  What have we actually observed so far?  I haven’t seen anything yet that indicates women hold less power than they have in the book (indeed, in at least the case of the Tinkers it appears they have more)–but I think we can all agree that book Liandrin wouldn’t be happy with men holding any power whatsoever, and show Liandrin doesn’t appear to be any different in this regard.

Similarly, Nynaeve is not a reliable source on why the White Tower turned her mentor away.  Recall three things from the books (White Tower policy spoilers): / 1) the White Tower has a relatively high standard on the minimum threshold of power required to be Aes Sedai, 2) the White Tower trains women of lower power levels mainly to keep them alive through the transition, and 3) prior to events in the book the White Tower did not accept adult candidates even if they were otherwise worthy.  If Nynaeve’s mentor was below the minimum power level, or possibly even if she was powerful enough but “too old”, the book Tower would absolutely turn her away since she had already gained a rough control over the power.  That’s especially true given the negative view that many Aes Sedai hold regarding wilders. /

 

Maybe these things really have been changed significantly, but I doubt it.  I’m certainly not going to fret about them before they’re actually demonstrated to be true.

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3 years ago

@9, 11, and 16, I thought she was turned away because she was too weak, not because she was poor. Also, if she was too old, the WT wouldn’t take her, because until later books, they only took novices that were young women and had enough potential to reach AS.

 

ETA: What tiornys @19 said in their spoiler worded it much better than I did.

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3 years ago

All I could think was that if Sylas is unhappy about the racial implications of how they cast Eamon Valda, it will be much worse if the show keeps a certain aspect of Valda’s interactions with Morgase in a later season.

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Faculty Guy
3 years ago

I like the show and will watch it all.  A couple of minor issues: (1) it takes too much time too channel – the wispy threads slowly floating.  There are times when you need to channel NOW (e.g., in LOC when Bashere throws a dagger at Rand), yet Moraine – an experienced channeler –  took maybe 20-30 seconds to effect a defense against attacking trollocs in episode one.  (2) Lan is not big enough physically to do all the things he does in the books (e.g., stopping Mat’s attempt to stab Nynaeve by grabbing his wrist – Mat is a strong guy himself).

A larger issue.  I have read that GRRM was a TV writer in his early days but quit to write novels because TV budgets were insufficient to do justice to his concepts.  Then, when ASOIAF became a mega-bestseller and he was approached by HBO, he sold the TV rights ONLY on the condition of an adequate (very large) budget – and the rest is history, a decade-long cultural mega-event.

WOT has the potential to be a comparable TV event, but I repeatedly read that decisions are made to cut material (and characters) based on budgetary limits.  We’ve lost the garden wall scene in Caemlyn, we’ve missed Baerlyn, we’ve not seen Min or Elayne or Bayle Domon or Basel Gill or Elaida . . . and ONLY EIGHT EPISODES !?

I know scripts cannot reproduce book texts.  Some shortening must be done.  But if WOT is going to be comparable to GOT as a cultural event, the decisions need to be made based on artistic considerations and not budgets.

 

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3 years ago

I wish that the show could have found someone the size and shape of Andre the Giant to play Loial.

New headcanon:  Andre the Giant actually was an Ogier, displaced after their ritual of translation went wrong.  He shaved his eyebrows and had his ears surgically reduced to try to fit in to human society.  Eventually, he died from being too long away from a stedding.

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3 years ago

Oh, I agree that there are plenty of reasons they could have turned her away that actually worked within the worldbuilding, but the one Nyneave gives is dumb.  It just remains to be seen if this is really meant to be taken at face value, or if Nyneave (or perhaps her mentor) was mistaken or fudging the truth.

I think with the casting, and I don’t know what the perfect solution is, is that the implication is that there could at the very least be some type of subconscious bias on the part of the casting that lead them to mentally fit those actors in those roles…but it could of course also just be that these were all the best actors for the various roles.

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JadePhoenix
3 years ago

“it’s difficult to juggle this large and ever-expanding cast.”

This is especially true when you spend half an episode focused on a third-tier character that no one really cares about.

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Admin
3 years ago

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3 years ago

I hate that we have to talk about race, because Abdul Salis is absolutely nailing the part.  But I’m actually surprised that it took this long to come up; one of my first thoughts after the second episode when Valda first appeared was “Two of the biggest bad guys shown so far are both dark-skinned black men.  That’s not good.”

(To be fair, only close watchers would have realized there’s something up with the other one; and the other evil person we’ve seen so far is a blonde woman, although it’s not clear she’s more than an antagonist at this point in the show.  And, of course, for those last two I’m assuming that the characters take similar plot arcs as in the books, which may not be the case.)

And I have to admit that seeing Valda as the “Big Bad” (per firstgentrekkie ) makes sense at this point in the show, but in the grand scheme of things, he’s small potatoes…

I definitely agree that they should not merge Liandrin and Elaida; merging Alviarin and Liandrin would work better but still wouldn’t be ideal.

And call me an optimist, but I 100% believe that Nynaeve’s story about why her mentor turned away is wrong and that she’ll find that out at some point.

Finally, regarding the episode itself, it was an absolutely riveting portrayal of the grief of a Warder losing his Aes Sedai that was brilliantly done, but I’m with RobMRobM @3 that with their already constrained time this season this might not have been the best place for it.

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3 years ago

Regarding Liandrin: the series is making her a little less blatantly evil, but still many nonreaders still catch that she’s a snake, like Nynaeve described her. 

 

I don’t think the series will merge her and Elaida. TV runs on shock. One of the shocks that exist in book 2 is Liandrin giving Egwene to the Seanchan. It’s shocking not only because of the Seanchan, but also by showing that there are Darkfriends on every continent and culture and they cooperate when given orders to.

 

 

Liandrin then flees the Tower with othe Black ajah. The supergirls mission for the first books is to find and defeat these people. This mission would make no sense if Liandrin and Elaida are the same character. The supergirls could accuse Liandrin of being black ajah and Siuan would watch her all the time and a coup would become harder or impossible to do.

 

Elaida is going to be introduced in season 2 along with Elayne. Just because a character’s cast hasn’t been leaked doesn’t mean they cut. The fanbase thought they had cut Min before rafe came and reassured them. 

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Masha
3 years ago

@6 and @8, I suspect rather than Elaida, Liandrin will be merged with Alviarin and maybe even Galina. That may reduce number of Reds being 2/3 of Ajah evil, which made the whole Ajah look unsympathetic and led to later efforts to redeem them.

@7 The speculation in WOT community that Rafe will follow original RJ intent on Taim being Demandred. (Apparently RJ got disappointed that fans guessed that reveal so he changed it mid-story, saddling both Demandred and Taim with much weaker (or non existent) subplots). Logain storyline is good enough by itself, plus Rafe mentioned that he is one of his favorites characters.

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Dave D
3 years ago

I think that to tell these men of color that it is socially unacceptable for them to play the role of bad guys is itself racist. The skin tone has nothing to do with their character, good or bad. The social commentary/conflict of this show has nothing to do with skin color and is about gender politics and so far the show has done a damn good job in placing characters firmly in a morally grey area, whether they are good or bad. Not even all whitecloaks are equal in their prejudice and the writers took a moment to show us that.

Sorry to come back so strongly about this but I am just imagining the actors and actresses of this show, who are clearly the best thing about this show and doing amazing, reading comments that they are doing good except they are the wrong skin color for the role. I’m sorry but that is wrong and only furthers social inequities, except on the other side of the political spectrum. I feel like this show is doing well to further normalize a lot of subjects that are tough to discuss IRL and I applaud them for it

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3 years ago

I felt the cultural issue about a dark black actor used to portray a depraved villain. It felt insensitive to me though I agree, he does give a great performance. My big question: Is he dead? He didn’t look like it and wasn’t injured in a critical location but the wolves were killing others. 

Is there a reason that a powerful group like the Aes Sedai allow the White Cloaks to exist? They are certainly dangerous enemies and kill Aes Sedai openly.

I’m not a book reader and so far I really like the show. I’ve read that Brandon Sanderson is providing input on what goes on but he isn’t “the decider” so he can’t force any changes, he can just suggest.

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3 years ago

@4  I agree.  Watching the back and forth of those who HAVE read the books, I believe that having not read the books is a net plus, in that we’re watching a story that’s entertaining, not waiting to see what they’ve changed in order to debate why.

Both I and my wife have been enjoying it greatly, and I have the minimum knowledge needed to point out to her that unlike a certain other show, this one is based on a complete book series so that the showrunners can’t outstrip the source material.  In addition, she’s extremely happy with the far less grimdark nature of this story.

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Austin
3 years ago

Was anyone else thrown off by Valda spotting Egwene and Perrin—at a distance, no less—and immediately ordering them to be grabbed? I was like, wait, what? I didn’t remember until later that they ran into the Whitecloaks with Moiraine. Still, I thought it was very abrupt. I would have had Valda walking around everyone, building supsense, until he spots Perrin and Egwene and is like, “Don’t I know you from somewhere?” And then he orders them to be taken. But as it is, he barely spots them in the distance and, immediately and without hesitation, orders them to be taken.

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3 years ago

I came here to see if anyone else was getting the impression that they were merging Liandrin and Elaida and I see that some others have also mentioned it. Would be a mistake IMO but definitely something I picked up on.

I thought the children of the light were going to start killing the tinkers and that would be the reason for Perrin to get upset and kill a couple of white cloaks and get him and Egwene captured but nope, apparently just seeing someone twice is enough for Valda to assume you are a dark friend. Also, why were the white cloaks so close to Tar Valon?

Anyone else feel like the boys from Emonds Feild haven’t done anything since leaving the Two Rivers other than run away? Ny and Egwene have been given big moments to shine while for the boys its all been Run Away!

On the unreliable narrator thing, that is something that you can do in a book but it doesn’t really translate to the screen. I mean one of ALfred Hitchcock’s rules for movies and television was to never lie to the audience. Obviously the rule can be broken, see the usual suspects, but it is best not to do so in most cases. So, again IMO, I hope they are not doing that.

One more thing, the story of Egwene not succumbing to break bone fever in the books was not to show how strong Egwene is but to show that that was the first time Ny ever channeled the one power, which the show has changed to the scene from last episode where Ny mass healed everyone.   

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Ellen
3 years ago

@32 I think the problem comes when there aren’t dark-skinned actors in other roles, too. It’s the context, not the single role. Especially in the wider historical context of colorism being an issue. It’s not that they shouldn’t play those roles, it’s that there needs to be dark-skinned actors in non-villainous roles, too.

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3 years ago

@35 – I wasn’t that thrown off since in their last encounter he had specifically said something about remembering their faces. So as soon as they showed up again I knew he would in fact remember them (although why he just assumes they are DFs/channelers is another question).

As for being near to Tar Valon, there are other scenes in the books where the Whitecloaks are close (I think when the girls were with Verin) so it’s not unheard of.

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3 years ago

So no-one is going to mention them turning Lan into a cry baby?

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BPR
3 years ago

@37, who knows, maybe we shall see such dark-skinned good guy characters eventually (and knowing how conscious the show runner is about representation, I’m sure comments of this nature have reached his ears by now, and he will no doubt oblige). 

I just can’t help but feel that some of this is just being critical for its own sake; like actually *looking* for something to be upset about (and before anyone says anything, I’m Filipino, so not some “privileged” white male). Which feeds into the haters who despise the show partly for this very reason (for whatever that’s worth). And as others have noted, everybody has already been creepified by and are mistrustful of Liandrin, and she is yes, a blond white woman. 

And having wasted too much time on that…let’s talk about the episode itself!!! Episode 5 was good, but definitely a step back from Episode 4, and in my opinion, may be the weakest episode so far. I just felt some of the scenes/edits were rushed, especially jumping from Liandrin talking to Nyneave, and then the very next scene there’s Nyneave with Loial at the inn. And Perrin and Egwene’s escape from the White Cloak camp was very…threadbare…very much like they ran out of the money needed to flesh that scene out and it suffers in execution. And finally, the sets of the White Tower felt very much like…sets. Not a real, authentic place. And while I was fine with focusing on Stepin’s angst as a mirror for what Lan faces with Moiraine, I’m not sure Lan screaming at the very end was necessary; I would have preferred a more somber, quiet Lan in that moment, with maybe one tear leaking out. (And I know I’m not the only one who thought of that Star Trek the Next Generation episode where Worf screams into the airwhen the other Klingon dies, lol.)

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Matilda Briggs
3 years ago

Like LisaMarie and others, I felt the backstory re Nynaeve’s mentor Wisdom was lazy and didn’t fit in with AS policy at all. I wish they had made Nynaeve’s complaint something more germane to the plot. For example, she could have mentioned how Artur Hawkwing, the “people’s king,” was opposed and undermined by the AS because of blind jealousy and lust for power. Moiraine could have agreed and pointed out that the responsible Amyrlin Seat, Bonwhin IIRC, was deposed and stilled as a result. Something like that would economically introduce one very cool minor character and one important foreshadowing. Nynaeve’s lines could have drawn on Elyas’s speech on Artur in EotW. Will just have to be part of my headcanon, I guess.

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Matilda Briggs
3 years ago

I, too, was a little surprised at the amount of time the episode spent on Stepin’s despair and death and Lan’s heartfelt mourning. After thinking about it, though, I believe it’s because a lot of readers of the WOT (and Lan!) are shocked at Moiraine’s transferring Lan’s bond to Myrelle should Moiraine die. The TV episode shows how hard it is for a bereaved Warder to go on living after losing his AS. It also shows Lan as a man of deep feeling, and reinforces our sense of his strong bond to Moiraine. Clearly, Moiraine has every reason to fear Lan would not survive her own death and every reason to be repelled at the waste that Lan’s reactive death would represent. I suspect Lan will still be PO’d about the bond transfer, though!

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3 years ago

So, a couple of things. While I agree that Fain and Valda being the darkest skinned folks in the show has some issues, there are plenty of bad guys to come, even in this season, presumably, so that issue may straighten itself out over time. 

Second, it is entirely possible that Nynaeve’s mentor couldn’t channel. The woman who replaces her can’t. I believe Verin says so much later in the books. And it is possible that N did channel to heal Egwene, and everyone (including N and E) thinks it was in the cave with Logain. 

I’ve tried to avoid too much information about what’s coming in the show, but I’m enjoying watching it come together with people who didn’t read the books. 

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Megan
3 years ago

@39 I for one am thoroughly enjoying the portrayal of the Warders as extremely strong, skilled warriors who also freely express a range of normal human emotions. Being a great swordsman and showing grief at the loss of a friend are not mutually exclusive.

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3 years ago

@36 Hypatiajames already touched on this, but it seems to me that the story about Egwene’s bonebreak fever is actually a hidden reference to Nynaeve’s channeling ability. Recall that in the book the reason it was important that she healed Egwene wasn’t just because it proved she could channel, it was because of the detail that when you Heal someone, it creates a link between you that allows you to sense them. Then note how certain Nynaeve is that Egwene is still alive. While obviously that can just be Two Rivers stubbornness/her refusal to think the worst, it could just as easily be foreshadowing indicating Nynaeve had in fact still Healed Egwene, and that’s why she could sense Egwene and so knew she wasn’t dead.

Also, to add on to what Lisamarie said, in the scene when the girls ran into the Whitecloaks with Verin, which was in book three when they were returning from Falme, the Whitecloaks were not only near Tar Valon, they actually were commanded by Valda–since that’s how he was there to give a copy of Mantelar’s book to Galad. (It was Dain Bornhald they encountered, however.) So I think the showrunners combined that scene with Geofram Bornhald’s group in TEOTW who were on their way to Caemlyn, possibly to intervene in the matter of Logain, because they also moved the procession with Logain from Caemlyn to Tar Valon.

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Ellen
3 years ago

Re: Lan’s grief at Stepin’s funeral, I was under the impression that him showing it so viscerally was part of some sort of Warder ritual. The older male character tells him to put his hand on Stepin and “relieve them of their grief” or something similar. So it was his role to perform (not sure if that’s the best word) the grief of all the Warders. Just to be clear, I’m not saying his was faking the depth of emotion in any way, just that he expressed it differently than he would have because he was given that role in the ceremony. 

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Ellen
3 years ago

Oh also, @40, I kind of agree it’s a bit too soon for this type of criticism, since there are so many more characters to come. I mainly just wanted to clear up what I understand Sylas to be saying to a couple commenters who seemed to misunderstand his point. 

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Masha
3 years ago

@43, In the books it is implied pretty heavily that Ny’s mentor could channel. First, she knew what to expect when Nynaeve first channeled to heal Egwene. (In EotW, Nynaeve remembers that her mentor fussed over her more than over recently-sick Egwene, as if she knew what to expect when someone channels for the first time untrained) and short RJ prelude “Ravens” taking place about 6 years prior to first book, her mentor monitors Ny’s treatments and looks disappointed that Ny didn’t “heal” the wound but just treated it with poultice, as if she expected Ny to start channeling and healing )

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3 years ago

Ellen @47: Actually, I don’t think we misunderstood his point.  Even if there are a bunch of non-evil Black men later (which I expect—and really hope—there will be), the first impression is not good.

It would be 100% wrong to not give the actors the opportunity to play the roles because of optics (as I said, Valda is spot-on), but it is still important to acknowledge the optics.

Megan @44: Amen!

Matilda Briggs @42: I agree that it was extremely important to establish the depth of pain the death of an Aes Sedai causes her Warder(s); I’m just questioning whether now was the right time for it.

goddessimho @33: The main problem is that the Aes Sedai are constrained by their Oaths to only defend themselves with the Power; they have to wait to be attacked before defending themselves.  And while there are any number of ways to get around that, the general ethos in the books is that they prefer to be manipulators rather than aggressors.  (We’ll see what the ethos is in the show as it develops.)

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3 years ago

Late to the conversation, but Nynaeve’s mentor is absolutely a misdirect. The writing on this show in terms of setup and payoff has been incredibly tight and I fully expect Nynaeve to rage at Siuan about Aes Sedai excluding poor folk only to get shot down with Siuan’s own backstory.

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3 years ago

Btw, this is Ellen from earlier posts, finally made an account and that username was taken. 

@49, Oh, I agree with you (I think, if I’m understanding you right), and I think that’s in line with what Sylas was saying, from how I interpreted it. I thought 32 and 14 were somewhat confused or misunderstanding Sylas’s point. From what I understood, Sylas doesn’t think it’s wrong for Valda to be played by a dark-skinned actor, just that it looks bad in context. 14 was asking for clarification and 32 said “I think that to tell these men of color that it is socially unacceptable for them to play the role of bad guys is itself racist,” which I don’t think is what Sylas was saying.

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3 years ago

rusticatrix @51: Got it.  We’re in agreement, then.  :-)

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3 years ago

Agree with Perene @50.  I laughed when I heard Nynaeve’s story as I realized only us book nerds would get what was really going on. Her mentor wasn’t powerful enough and so that’s why she got turned away.  I also am anticipating that Siuan smackdown!  

Anyway…a few thoughts (on both this episode and show as a whole as I don’t think I’ve shared my thoughts on Tor yet):

It is really hard to know what to think of this show. As a pretty big WoT fan, I’ve realized while watching that all my favourite moments are the moments that remind me of the books. I smiled so much at meeting Loial. He does look a little off, but his character is absolutely perfect and I was so happy when I realized Rand was in the library (in Tar Valon not Caemlyn haha) and who he was about to meet!!! I also got chills when I saw Rand and Mat sitting high up watching the Logain procession and then seeing Logain look up at…one of them…and laughing madly. Beautiful. (But possibly only because I love that moment from the books!!)

Then even the moment with Moiraine and Liandrin walking the stairs/halls of the Tower as white-clad novices walk past. How many times does something of that sort happen in the books? (A lot)

So I guess what I’m saying is the moments I connect most with are the moments that give me happy feelings because I recognize from books. I’m not exactly sure what non-book readers will think, as overall, show still feels a bit clunky. The last 2 episodes have slowed down the pace a ton, which is much needed. And there has been a lot more lore explanation, which I think has been good. But still some off notes. Perrin (despite the excellent wolf-turn) still is just not doing it for me. Egwene is fantastic and every scene with her is pure gold. Rand is Rand. He’s just perfect for the character. Pike continues to be fantastic as Moiraine, even when she doesn’t have a whole lot to do.

I was a bit confused about the time spent on the Stepin/Kerene subplot. Spending so much time with him was weird, but I do understand that it helps ground the world a bit more and show us the Aes Sedai / Warder relationship in greater depth, as well as give us a further emotional connection to Lan, while continuing to develop Nynaeve. I confess, I almost cried at end of episode (also may have something to do with dear friend dying last week). But if we want to have a further emotional connection to show, wish they’d focus on the core characters a bit more. Wish we could get actual character development for Egwene and Perrin instead of everything being about Perrin’s fridged wife. Great job reducing Perrin to one-note character and majority of Egwene’s role being reacting to that. Blah.

Also, I continue to think Alanna is a fantastic character and we need more of her. Loved her and Moiraine’s chat in Moiraine’s quarters. We need more scenes like that!!

So, all in all, five episodes in, I’ve pretty much resigned myself to the fact that show is telling story their way and I need to be ok with that (honestly, I do understand them pretty much subbing Tar Valon for Caemlyn…it does help speed things up drastically as well as get a lot more background for Aes Sedai which I think is needed for show-watchers).  But…my favourite moments are still the “book moments” which concerns me for show’s future.  I don’t think I would like this show if I wasn’t already a WoT fan.

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3 years ago

I think too much focus was on the warders this episode. Maybe it works better for non-book readers but I couldn’t buy in to the fact that Lan is displaying this much grief for a person that up until a couple of weeks ago I had never heard of. Notwithstanding the fact that Peter Franzen did a stellar job with the character.

I was wondering if they would skip the scene with Logain seeing Rand altogether. Since Logain has now already been stilled, how exactly is he able to see anything different about Rand at all? It’s a bit puzzling to be honest.

I liked the scenes with the whitecloaks. Abdul Salis is a great Valda.

Still enjoying the show overall. Just wish the season was a bit longer, everything is feeling slightly rushed.

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3 years ago

@54, perhaps the talent wasn’t lost, making it a One Power adjacent talent, rather than a Talent?

Thinking a la Dreamwalking, Min’s viewings, Wolfbrothers, etc.

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3 years ago

I am a book reader (but from a very long time ago, I think I read TEOTW in grade 6 in 1990) and have been watching the show with a friend who is a non-book reader and that experience gave me a potential reason for the slowing down in this episode and the focus on warders and grief (though I appreciate what @42 suggested about it being used to set up things with Lan/Moiraine).

My friend was really disturbed/affected by the Whitecloaks torture scenes and I think the slower more contemplative moments in the White Tower might be there to provide some respite from that. That said, I am worried if they will be able to watch some of what is to come //(thinking here of the Seanchan)//.

I also wanted to thank Sylas for mentioning colourism as I immediately noticed it in the first few episodes and had a bit of a visceral response to it. I would also add (though it somewhat further builds on the point/questions regarding possible implicit bias in casting) that Loial/Hammed Animashaun is a dark-skinned Black actor as well however, because of the costuming necessary for him to be an Ogier, that isn’t visible. I personally love him as Loial and felt he was somewhat close to what I imagined. Adding here that discussions around colourism feel particularly pertinent in a diegetic world where Dark = Evil and Light = “Good” as they are pertinent in many societies in our current world too (as extensions of that coded language/and the ideologies that underpin it).

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Bill
3 years ago

The Nynaeve talk is confusing.  She healed Lan and the rest.  Even in this show we know she is powerful.  There is a reason in the books why she is nearly bounced and it would fit here just fine,  even if it is introduced later.  They are not really portraying her as being as overconfident and full of herself as THE WISDOM OF TWO RIVERS even before she channels as she is on paper.   They did leave her behind to begin with though and that is a change.

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JadePhoenix
3 years ago

@54, 55  I don’t think there’s any concrete evidence whether the Talent to see Ta’veren requires the ability to channel or not.  All three people we know of that have it can channel, and 2 of them were cut off, and we never really find out if either of them can still do it while they can’t channel.  In fact, I don’t think either of them run into any of our Ta’veren between being stilled and being healed, unless Logain sees Mat at the tower.  My guess is they wouldn’t be able to, but it’s not a big deal either way.

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David
3 years ago

Best blink-and-you’ll-miss-it moment: Rand pausing to rest by what looks a lot like a portal stone!

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3 years ago

Bill @57:

They did leave [Nynaeve] behind to begin with though and that is a change.

Not sure what you’re talking about here; in the books, they leave Nynaeve behind, and the fact that she tracks them down despite Lan trying to hide their trial is the first thing that impresses Lan, just like in the show.

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Austin
3 years ago

@59 – Robert Jordan answered that. Siuan lost the ability to see ta’veren when she was stilled, and regained it when she was healed. http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=247 Question #3.

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CJH
3 years ago

On “Egwene believing that she is Jain reincarnated is an especially lovely bit of worldbuilding since Jain was a man”.  I think the show is making Jain Farstrider a woman because Rand says Egwene believed she was a reincarnation of HER.

@61 – Yes!  I yelled “that’s a portal stone” to my wife when I saw it, then tried to explain what it was.  She (who hasn’t read the books) was strangely uninterested.

 

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Matilda Briggs
3 years ago

It really does seem to me that Liandrin is going to absorb Elaida’s role, or something very like it. TV Liandrin is a political animal; on the road trip with Logan, she campaigns to have Logain gentled, methodically making her case to each of the AS in turn. We learn in this episode that she has been organizing something within the White Tower as well (a coup, maybe?). Book Liandrin, OTOH, is self-absorbed and opportunistic, not an organizer, not a politician.

If Liandrin does take over Elaida’s role, I can’t say it would bother me, though it would entail a lot of plot-rejiggering. The show obviously has to cut down on the number of major AS, and I never found Elaida very interesting as a character. (I do hope they keep Verin and Pevara, though . . .)

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3 years ago

Speaking of Padan Fain sightings, there is an earlier one. As Rand is saying “Do you think they’ll let us in like this?” Fain is in the background left, standing under a white awning and whistling.

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Ordeith
3 years ago

“Daughter of the Night, she walks again. The ancient war, she yet fights. Her new lover she seeks, who shall serve her and die, yet serve still. Who shall stand against her coming? The Shining Walls shall kneel. Blood feeds blood. Blood calls blood. Blood is, and blood was, and blood shall ever be.”

“The man who channels stands alone. He gives his friends for sacrifice. Two roads before him, one to death beyond dying, one to life eternal. Which will he choose? Which will he choose? What hand shelters? What hand slays? Blood feeds blood. Blood calls blood. Blood is, and blood was, and blood shall ever be.”

“Luc came to the Mountains of Dhoom. Isam waited in the high passes. The hunt is now begun. The Shadow’s hounds now course, and kill. One did live, and one did die, but both are. The Time of Change has come. Blood feeds blood. Blood calls blood. Blood is, and blood was, and blood shall ever be.”

“The Watchers wait on Toman’s Head. The seed of the Hammer burns the ancient tree. Death shall sow, and summer burn, before the Great Lord comes. Death shall reap, and bodies fail, before the Great Lord comes. Again the seed slays ancient wrong, before the Great Lord comes. Now the Great Lord comes. Now the Great Lord comes. Blood feeds blood. Blood calls blood. Blood is, and blood was, and blood shall ever be. Now the Great Lord comes.”

BMcGovern
Admin
3 years ago

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Spork
3 years ago

I will keep watching because it is entertaining. Books are definitely better IMHO. The show is based on WOT same as Hercules the legendary adventure and Xena were based on greek myth. Just roll with it, it’s fiction. As long as it doesn’t stray into legend of the seeker territory of bad book series adaptations, I will keep watching and enjoy it.  

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Firstgentrekkie
3 years ago

@33 I agree, I don’t think Valda is dead. Yet.

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3 years ago

The tinkers linking arms reminded me of the followers of the leaf from the Breaking, stalling one of the Hundred Companions while the city evacuated. Oof.

I see Perrin is the designated woobie.

I’ve seen enough SF TV that I appreciate a show that stops to mourn people who aren’t in the opening credits.