Welcome, Sanderfans and Cosmere Chickens, to another Wind and Truth read-along discussion. Last week we saw a whole lot happening in Chapters 16, 17, and 18, and we’ve enjoyed following your discussion on those chapters. Check out the social media section at the end of the article to see if we spotlighted one of your comments! This week, we check out what’s going on in Chapters 19 and 20.
Note that this post will possibly contain full Cosmere spoilers, so beware if you aren’t caught up on all Cosmere content. And please remember, when posting or commenting about these preview chapters on social media, to follow your platform’s spoiler rules. Your comments here, however, don’t need to be spoiler tagged, so feel free to comment as you will down below!
Without further ado, let’s get to the discussion!
Paige’s Summary and Commentary
Chapter 19 is titled “Ruled by Voices.” The epigraph is slowly revealing more info about where the family came from, before their encounter with Nohadon.
As you might guess from the title of the chapter, we’re following Szeth’s point of view. Our reformed assassin in white still hears the voices of all he’s killed. He’s flying with Kaladin to Shinovar and when they arrive, he becomes emotional to find himself standing on Shin land once again, looking out over the soil and dandelions. It’s quite a touching moment.
Then his snooty spren ruins it. The highspren, who won’t even tell Szeth his name or grant him access to the surge of Division, despite having spoken his Third Ideal. I have a great distaste for Szeth’s spren—especially when he chastises Szeth as if he were a child. Lyndsey and I are on the same page regarding our outright dislike of this spren. See her commentary for more on the aforementioned chastisement.
When Kaladin asks Szeth if he’s alright, Nightblood answers. Honor love that sword.
Oh, I’m fine! said the sword strapped to Szeth’s back. Thank you. Nobody has been paying attention to me today, but I’m famously patient. It comes from being a sword.
Kaladin is confused by the dandelions and how they don’t pull away. He almost stomps on the dandelion, just trying to see if it will withdraw; watching him, Szeth calls him a coward for not crushing the weed. Rude. Szeth suppresses amusement by Kaladin’s assumption that they’ll find “real plants” that will retract. His spren wouldn’t approve of such emotion. I think this is why I don’t like Skybreakers, other than the whole “betraying humanity” thing… they’re so stoic.
All told, a relatively short chapter. But Chapter 20 is longer, never fear! This chapter is titled “Three Vital Points of Defense” and takes us back to Dalinar’s meeting of the monarchs for a Navani POV.
Of course, last week we saw Wit come to the realization that Rayse no longer holds Odium’s shard. Navani hears the Sibling asking the Stormfather if it’s possible (she has heard the Stormfather in her mind before, but only twice). The Stormfather goes to look, then comes back and confirms that it’s true, Rayse is dead and another holds the Shard. But nobody seems to think about whether it’s someone they know. Think, people, think! At this point, as Lyndsey discusses below, the Stormfather almost seems regretful that Rayse is dead, but then… nope. He just wishes he’d killed Rayse himself. Vicious!
Queen Fen doesn’t care that the vessel has changed, saying it makes no difference, but Wit stresses how much it does matter. Then he admits that he’s frightened. I know you just read the chapter but I need to highlight it, because what Wit says about the new vessel is quite unsettling:
“I knew the old Odium,” he said, spinning around to look at them all. “Our entire plan—the contract, the contest—was based in part on that knowledge. Now… I’m frightened. The old Odium was deeply calcified into his position as a god—and was very unlikely to do anything that would risk that position. The new one was likely a mortal before their Ascension. They’ll be more brash, more willing to take risks.”
Because Rayse was held to his word by the contract and, oddly, the new vessel… isn’t bound as strongly by the promises made by his predecessor. Like, say, the “lesser promise” about not exploiting loopholes. Rayse gave his worth that he wouldn’t do so, but the new vessel could, and not face any consequences, it seems. Fen asks if they could call off the contest, since Odium has now changed and isn’t holding to the details of the contract. Wit says that of course they could, but that would allow Odium to retaliate in person. And Kmakl makes a note:
“No breaking contracts with gods.”
Hahaha… hahahahaha. ::ahem::: That wasn’t maniacal laughter at all, how dare you imply such a thing.
Moving on… The frustrating part of the discussion, especially for Fen, is that if the enemy captures the capital city, then they get the whole country. This is why she’s lobbying so vehemently for more troops. Navani suggests changing the capitals to another city but Wit, having already thought of this strategy, shoots her down:
“Here’s the short of it,” Wit said, holding up the written-out version of Dalinar’s agreement with Odium. “This is immutable. This stands. What Odium’s doing plays dirty, but does not break these rules. We could try to do something similar, but changing the capital—or one of a dozen other very clever things I came up with—would put us in violation.”
“And,” Kmakl said, “we shouldn’t violate agreements with gods. I just made a note of it, even.” He gave a wan smile.
Dalinar and Stargyle create a map of Roshar and consider their options. The Sibling is quite impressed and they wonder, in Navani’s mind, how people can now do things the ancient Radiants never did. Navani brags that they’re just all that and a bag of chips.
Not really, but she’s probably thinking it.
There’s much to discuss about the three strongholds that the singers, Skybreakers, and Fused (and Thunderclasts, oh my!) are moving to attack. Of course, Fen and Yanagawn want reinforcements sent to their capital cities, but there just aren’t enough troops to go around. Fen argues that there are forty thousand reinforcements a few days march away from Azimir so she wants Dalinar’s troops sent to protect Thaylen City.
This displeases Yanagawn, understandably, as the city’s Oathgate is smack dab in the middle of the city. It is “protected” by a structure surrounding the platform, however, and Dalinar argues that an enemy force could be held at bay by fewer defenders than at Thaylen City.
There’s concern that if they send out all of their troops again, Urithiru will be open to attack. The Sibling adds their thoughts on that, which I have to include because it’s so cool that they speak out loud, addressing everyone:
“They will not come here. Fused will fall unconscious. Regals will have their forms stripped from them. Even common singers will lose access to their rhythms, and my beats can drive them mad. They know that. Now that I’ve returned, they know.”
With the tower secure, they decide to send twenty thousand troops to Thaylen City, to be led by Jasnah. After a bit more debate and discussion, Dalinar agrees to send Adolin to Azimir with two thousand of their best troops. Then Dalinar tells Sigzil to take the bulk of the Radiants to the Shattered Plains.
As the meeting breaks up, Navani thinks that Dalinar just needs to go hug Adolin. Which he doesn’t, of course. Adolin turns to leave, but then goes back and tells Dalinar and Navani about Shallan and the Ghostbloods. They’re quite put out by the news, of course, but Dalinar grudgingly agrees to provide “authorization for an operation and a Radiant strike force.”
Dalinar remarks on Shallan lying to them and Adolin immediately throws that in his face because, well, Dalinar hasn’t always been truthful, and hid the fact that he killed Evi. Dalinar tells Adolin he raised him to be better than to make gibes and Adolin is like, it’s on! Not really. They don’t hash it out, insisting it’s not the time. Alethi men and their storming refusal to feel feelings and, most especially, to talk about them!
Then Dalinar does something super cool. He gives Adolin a Bondsmithing so that he’ll be able to understand and speak the language in Azir. It will last a few weeks, he says. Super cool! That would be a great tool to be able to bestow on someone else!
Adolin heads off to gather his force, and Dalinar ends the chapter by telling Navani that he ran into a god on the way to the meeting.
So the stage is set, Sanderfans. Troops will be on the move, our parties will separate (Kaladin’s already gone, of course), and we have more fighting coming soon to a chapter near you. What are your thoughts on this week’s chapters? Will Navani ask the Sibling if they sensed their mother’s presence in the tower? Will she question Cultivation’s suggestion that Dalinar should visit the Spiritual Realm? I mean, they only have a matter of days before the contest. What’s going to happen next? Let us know in the comments!
Lyndsey’s Commentary
Chapter 19 has an interesting choice of arch Herald… Chana, (Chanarach), Herald of the Common Man and patron of Dustbringers. Her attributes are Brave/Obedient and her role is Guard. I can’t figure out why she might be here. Any ideas, readers?
Chapter 20 features Jezrien (Jezerezeh), Herald of Kings, patron of the Windrunners and the Wild Card. This tracks for another big war strategy chapter in which we hear from all the leaders of the various nations… and Wit, of course.
A land where the king was a holy man, and was concerned with the plight of the farmer beyond the appropriation of taxes.
I let them pass with two lies.
—From The Way of Kings, fourth parable
Well, this epigraph is just creating more and more questions. Seems like this king is a good man, if he’s genuinely concerned for the lives of his citizens. But two lies?
Now… if you’re anything like me, you may appreciate a visualization of the things being talked about in chapter 20. I spent a bit of time putting together a little strategy map of the things discussed. It’s not perfect (I didn’t have a ton of time, and some of the details in the chapter were a little fuzzy) but it’s pretty close, as near as I can figure.
Szeth
Szeth-son-Honor continued to wear white clothing.
That was no longer mandated. […] …he pretended it was right to continue his routines. If they were wrong—if instead he should have a preference among many tiny options… well, that made him shudder to his core.
Szeth’s lived so long following orders that even small choices terrify him. This poor, traumatized man. Hearing the voices of all those he was ordered to kill, feeling as if they’re condemning him, bearing all that guilt… he’s been through so much.
“This emotion is unfitting of your station,” the spren said, audible and visible only to him. “Do not spoil your dignity with base sentimentality. You serve the law.”
I already hate this spren. While I somewhat understand the sentiment of “the law needs to be impartial and emotion clouds judgment and rationality,” I feel as though there also needs to be a middle ground. Hopefully this is one of many things that Kaladin can help Szeth with.
This is a man, Szeth thought, who pulls back before crushing a weed.
“No wonder you broke and gave up the spear,” Szeth said, “leaving your friends to battle without you. You have grown into a coward, then?”
Wow. Talk about drastically different worldviews. When I first read Szeth’s thought, I thought he was being complimentary. Someone being so kind and gentle that they don’t even want to kill a plant must surely be a good thing, right? But, no. Szeth sees this as a flaw, a weakness. And in some cultures, it may be understandable to view it so. If you’ve spent your whole life fighting for your life against other tribes or against fierce predators, then that very gentleness which, in a peaceful society, would be seen as beneficial, would indeed be a flaw. It could get you killed. We don’t know enough about Szeth’s culture and history to know if this is the case for him… but over the course of this book, we’re going to find out. This is, of course, Szeth’s “flashback book” and we’re going to be getting his backstory.
“Then you should stop talking,” Szeth replied. “Because if you cannot explain what you mean, then why voice silly thoughts?”
Yikes. He’s about as blunt and hard as a boulder. Kaladin’s going to have a lot of work to do teaching this one empathy.
Stormfather
I… will look, said the Stormfather. I must know. Rayse… he can’t just be…
That’s an interesting reaction. Seems awfully personal, as if he knew Rayse before. Maybe he did. After all, the Stormfather’s been around for a long time, presumably. But the way he trails off like that leads me to believe that there’s more to their relationship. Perhaps I’m reading too much into it, or it’s a red herring… But then we get this:
Rayse is gone, after all this time.
“You sound regretful,” Navani whispered.
Only that my lightning did not strike his corpse, the Stormfather spat. And my wind did not dash it against stones until it broke.
That’s definitely a very personal reaction. How did they know one another?
I miss how the Stormfather used to be, the Sibling said. He was so much happier before.
Something must have happened to him to instill such rage. But what? The Recreance? Something else that we couldn’t guess at yet?
Dalinar/Adolin
“What?” Dalinar said to her. “He wants little to do with me these days, Navani. It’s best I let him go.”
Navani is right; these two won’t be able to heal the rifts between them without sitting down and having a frank discussion. And both of them are too stubborn to do so.
“You didn’t raise me, Father. You killed the woman who did.”
Oof. When I said they needed to talk, I didn’t mean like that…
“Why?” she asked Dalinar. “Why don’t you say more?”
“He always throws it back at me,” Dalinar said, his thumb and forefinger massaging his forehead. “And in a way, he’s right, Navani. I didn’t raise him.
It’s good that he realizes this, but Navani is more right. Letting it fester is just going to keep poisoning their relationship until it eventually kills it.
Drew’s Commentary: Invested Arts & Theories
At long last, we get a Szeth point of view! It’s still just a start, and he and Kaladin have only just arrived in Shinovar, so many mysteries yet await… but we get many references to the myriad voices Szeth hears and has heard throughout his life.
Voices. Had there ever been a time when his life hadn’t been ruled by voices? Would he even know what to do if they stopped?
We’ve known since the start that he hears the voices of his victims, and of course he has the new twin voices of his highspren and Nightblood in his head… but these lines indicate that Szeth has had experience with other voices for much longer than the period since becoming Truthless and being used as a living weapon.
Those flashbacks can’t come soon enough, can they?
It is true, the Stormfather said. Odium is no longer Rayse.
Here we see the political and military fallout of Taravangian’s Ascension—though nobody in Urithiru knows who replaced Rayse. Even the Sibling and the Stormfather are at a loss. But Hoid is here to talk about the nitty gritty, and we get some good reinforcement of how Shards work.
First, we’re reminded of the consequences for Shards breaking promises.
*For a deity, breaking a promise exposes them to destructive forces from others—and the magnitude of the broken promise often determines the severity of the consequence.
We’ve known for some time that Shardic promises and agreements carry divine weight and breaking them opens up a Shard to retaliation, but this goes a little deeper into the details. There are proportions involved, it seems, and the way Hoid talks makes me immediately wonder about the Shards Odium has killed and splintered in the past: Ambition, Devotion, Dominion, and of course Honor.
It has always made some sense that Odium would be a particularly dangerous Shard, given its Intent. In a one-on-one duel, Odium would probably have the upper hand on Devotion at least, and possibly Honor, just based on the Intent of the Shards and how the Vessels might struggle to actually fight (as we saw happen with Vin when she held Preservation). But Ambition and Dominion could be pretty easily interpreted in martial ways… so how did Odium manage to defeat them?
Well, one long-running theory is that Odium had substantial help from another Shard. Autonomy is a popular choice, and the epigraphs in Rhythm of War indicate that Mercy was at least present when Odium killed Uli Da and splintered Ambition—though we don’t know what role Mercy played there, exactly.
Another option, however, could be that Odium simply engineered situations like the one we’re currently witnessing, and manipulated those Shards into breaking promises. Indeed, it’s possible that the original arrangement of the Sixteen—to go their separate ways and leave each other alone—played into this in the cases of Honor, Devotion, and Dominion. But Ambition, by all accounts, was off on her own, and Odium specifically sought her out early on.
If he could have tricked or otherwise convinced Ambition to break a Shardic promise… well, that might be just the ticket to scratch one Shard.
Thankfully, this is the Stormlight Archive, and one of the aforementioned Shards with a dead Vessel is front-and-center here. Whether it’s in Wind and Truth or if it’ll have to wait for some time in the final five books, it seems like a certainty that we’ll get the real story of how Tanavast met his demise and what, exactly, happened to Honor.
But that’s all for these two chapters. More secrets, more mysteries, and more theories lie ahead!
Fan Theories
On Discord, user “Lofty!” has this to say about the Chapter 18 epigraph:
Watch Brandon drop something like the mystery place was Ashyn. The phrasing indicates that they were ‘in search of one’—not that they knew much about the place. That’s why I’m leaning towards that possibility.
GiangDo over at Reactor’s chapter preview says this about Adolin:
Ugh I really hope Adolin doesn’t become Odium’s champion. His bitterness towards Dalinar is definitely gonna be a recipe for disaster.”\
And Zodda wants to talk about Honor’s shard:
Here’s my thing: while readers have been speculating that Honor could somehow be remade or reclaimed, presumably at great effort. Now Cultivation just walks in an straight up tells Dalinar that the Shard is intact and where to find it. So now my mind is spinning around this question: if such a huge piece of the puzzle is so minor that we get it for free, what is Brandon holding back for the huge reveal?!
We’ll be keeping an eye on the comment sections of posts about this article on various social media platforms and may include some of your comments/speculation (with attribution) on future weeks’ articles! Keep the conversation going, and PLEASE remember to spoiler-tag your comments on social media to help preserve the surprise for those who choose to wait for the full release. See you next Monday with chapters 21 and 22!
I have been converted: Adolin is so dead. Either that or Dalinar is. Without reconciliation, one of them is deader than a doornail, and the survivor will live with the guilt…
I’m thinking he did something else with his language bestowment, some Connection that will allow them to speak to each other at distance or give him visions to have their emotional chat down the line without Adolin having to come back to the tower.
This just seems like a big red herring playing into the theories he’ll be tOdiums champion, just like the appearance of gav last week.
But we know Adolin would never go that far, and after odium failed the last 2 times to convert someone that would be kind of weakening the whole reason he killed Rayse off once he seemed ineffective and weak.
I agree there’s a bunch of red flags but like..I can’t imagine the back 5 books without either of them. I don’t see it as ominous more just setting up for an emotional reconciliation down the line.
I totally agree about the emotional reconciliation down the line.
I suspect one will die saving the other.
Agreed, either Adolin or Dalinar is not coming out of this unscathed; but if they do reconcile, I fear the chances of them biting the dust will just skyrocket to infinity and beyond.
Chapter 19 has a great deal about who Szeth obeys, and his lack of independent initiative. So I think that Chana is in the arch for her attribute of “Obedient”.
About the stormfather reaction, when Honor died Tanavast’s Cognitive Shadow merged with the Stormfather so that is why he talks like that about Rayse
Potentially also the reason for his personality shift, though the honorspren and Kalak believe he’s changed more recently too.
Perhaps he’s been Enlightened…
I have a Theory about Szeth’s Highspren, the fact that we don’t know his name makes me think that he is Auxiliary
that is interesting. I guess Sigzil will have to switch from windrunner to a highspren.
but the vibe is wrong. Auxiliary wasn’t soo, picky? Anal would be a better name.
Yeah but in sunlit man Aux said: “I don’t like the person I was back on Roshar either, before we knew each other.
I like change, Nomad. My kind were too static for too long, particularly we highspren.” So he changed
re:szeth…
we know from previous books that the Shin hierarchy valued farmers and “he who adds”, and treated soldiers as the lowest of the low. but, i assume that only a few shin were trained on honorblades. the question is…where did they fit in the Shin hierarchy? low like soldiers? or at the very highest, like holy priests or something? my speculation is Szeth went from among the highest of the Shin to the very lowest (lower than soldiers, even). but, being Shin, he retains their worldview and would see Kaladin as a very low person because he was a soldier, and now he can’t even do that. this is goona make Kal’s task to help him so much harder…
I notice that the defences the Sibling describes would be effective at holding back Fused and Singers, but would do nothing against Skybreakers, or human infantry.
Which has me reflecting on the exchange about the map- the Sibling has a lot of unquestioned assumptions about what’s possible based on the old way of doing things.
But nobody seems to have caught that, and they agreed to leave Urithiru nearly undefended
We all caught that and it was stated Navani cant leave the Tower for too long so she will stay here and god knows what is she really capable of now also it might be invasion but from characters not using stormlight but Breath? Will or can Ghostbloods make a open move?
in the little blurb summary for WaT, it said Dalinar and Navani are going to the spiritual realm. idk what that means for them in the physical realm but i don’t think Navani would be there to defend the tower
Where can i read this ?
Blurb accompanying book on online book stores.
oh…2 more things
I recall Brandon said something around the lines that this concludes the first arc of Stormlight. By how he told it, it seemed this arc will be finish this whole storyline. The next five books will cover a new storyline with some unfinished overarching stories. Which is why Brandon’s okay with not writing another Stormlight book until 2030.
The back 5 are their own arc after a significant time skip. I think it’s entirely possible that, win or lose, Odium’s business with Roshar is concluded with book 5 and the second arc centers around an entirely different main conflict.
Or they trap Todoium in a gem and he escaped? for the future books.
I think it’s possible they trap or defeat Todium in some way or shape. And then the next five books will be about the “consequences of gods breaking contract.” So we might see a bunch of other cosmere gods in the next five books. And then, maybe, the endgame is to take up the Shard of Odium to have the power to defeat those invading gods.
i don’t think that’s possible. he’s a god, not a spren.
I’m becoming more and more convinced that the fifth ideal “level up” has something to do with Syl being more human-like. We know that the spren’s side of the bargain is increased volition in the physical realm, but we haven’t really seen any connection to *why* spren would want that. What if ideal 5 is more of a give for the radiant, and a take for the spren. And along that line of reasoning, especially regarding the inkspren and highspren, who act rather shady, I wonder if spren can or should be trusted with increased access to the physical realm…
Nale is a fifth ideal radiant, we have never seen his spren. We also have not seen him do anything really incredible. Could possibly be because he is a cognitive shadow, kind of a spren himself.
This also has been on my mind. If a bonded spren gets more physical as oaths progress it kinda ties to Ishar’s dealings pulling the spren over without the bond. Not sure what it all means though!!!
Something that keeps bugging me is how sure the sibling is that they are safe because of all the effects they would have on any fused or regals. Etc.
But in the back of my mind I keep thinking what about the skybreakers. Would the siblings protections have any effect on them or not as they are radiants.
Keep thinking maybe they aren’t as safe as they think
I dont think its possible but can they be somehow the Heavinly Ones transofrmed into Skybreakers due to Illumination Fused abillities or maybe the new Unmade can do something like this? Then it would be logical that they just pretend to be Skybreakers and the real ones will attack unprotected Urithiru also we have no raports on Nale being there
yes, i’ve been wondering if Navani is safe in this book?
The one problem I have with another invasion of Urithiru is we did that in RoW. I do not see Brandon going back to the same well twice.
RoW was very much about the _occupation_ of Urithiru, more than it being invaded. I think a single battle is a totally different narrative, especially if Kal isn’t even there and the sibling is awake.
So, why do highspren currently suck and how did Aux become so different? No wonder that the bond didn’t help Nale.
And yes, the Skybreakers are absolutely going to attack Urithiru. It is so blatant that it seems somewhat implausible that nobody brings up the possibility. I wonder if they might not bring some human soldiers in, too.
Personally, I hope that this time fight for the Tower will be carried out via someone engaging Nale in a legal battle. It should help that the mountains probably hadn’t been inhabited by singers at any point and that Odium’s very agreement to the Duel of champions is an admission that he isn’t yet holding Roshar by the right of conquest.
I also absolutely don’t think that Dalnar’s deal with Odium that neglected to freeze the borders and didn’t explicitly name spren as part of it was good either, despite Hoid’s assurances.
Lindsay: we have been told again and again that Tanavast’s Cognitive Shadow merged with the Stormfather. Even if is not a separate consciousness hidden inside the SF, which I still think it might be, it still shines through in some of his reactions, IMHO.
I don’t think it will be skybreakers, I think it will be Dustbringers.
We haven’t heard anything from them for a while and Skybreakers NEED to provide air support for the Singer Fleet.
re: cultivation (and other Shards, too)…is she on humanity’s side?
what i mean is…what is her primary motivation? helping people? or staying alive? would she help Odium if it gets him out of the local system and away from her?
we saw in the mistborn secret history how Preservation’s Intent of keeping things as they were led him to love the Lord Ruler…simply because he didn’t change. could Cultivation’s Intent (I assume to make things grow. perhaps, though, only in an orderly fashion the way she wants them to) actually allow her to give humanity over to Odium, because it doesn’t conflict with her Intent, and she’s ticked off because Vorinism threw her out on her ear?
long story short: who’s side is she on, anyway?
THANK YOU! I am of the opinion that Culti will be the major villain of the back half.
Also, it occurs to me that Cultivation was not killed by Odium, though Honor was. To me that is significant.
Was it because Cultivation is hiding and Odium can’t find her?
It occurs to me that when Dalinar created his first perpendicularity Odium says ‘*WE* killed you’. That could either be Odium talking about Adonalsium and all of the first people to take up shards, or it could be talking about Honor, like Odium and Cultivation killed Honor together.
Came across an Epigraph about Ambition, Mercy and Odium clashing and Ambition getting killed. Was Mercy helping Ambition or Odium?
Oh that is suuuper interesting.
What if Adolin became the champion.. for Dalinar? in a emotional scene when they reconcile and Dalinar understands that Adolin have everything needed to win (strengh, familiarity with the codes but a young and modern mind, honor in his heart, willingness to lead, to sacrifice himself if needed, and no bonded spren at the moment)?
Is no one going to mention Sigzil taking command at the Shattered Plains?! Remember what we learn about him in the sunlit man? Why he hates taking command? I wonder if this the start of Sigzils story
i know that most of what leads to sigzils state in sunlit man happens to him in the first 5 stormlight, so yes i believe sig will go through some major changes in this book
I worry for Sigzil. And his spren. The enemy is probably armed with Anti-stormlight. Speaking of which, If Odium’s rhythm has changed, does that mean any Anti-voidlight they currently have won’t work? Will Navani have to create new Anti-voidlight? That is, if they were going to use it.
I think Sigzil’s spren survives. In Sunlit Man, Aux says “you threw out your conscience years ago, I know, though I never had a chance to meet her.”
My theory is these are not the real Skybreakers but Heavinly Ones turned to look like them by Illumination Fused and the real ones will attack Urithiru, no sightings of Nale in Thayilen and they re going to leave Urithiru ,,unprotected,, for a reason it might be Skybreakers or Ishar or even Ghostbloods making open move
I believe the 3 invasion points are distractions for what T-Odium is truly attempting to obtain – whether land, an object or some other form of power.
I wonder if he is after Rysn.
So changing capital isn’t valid but what if all the other rulers concede their nations to Urithuru/Dalinar? Wouldn’t that mean they could just defend Urithuru? Would also fit with Dalinar “uniting them”
This! Ever since Sibling was confident I was sure Urithuru will be attacked. And it makes sense to gather all forces in Utithuru and hold the fort for 8 days….
My comments and questions on Chapter 19
Chapter 19
· If we had to get a Szeth, POV chapter, I would have preferred a Szeth flashback chapter.
· Szeth is no talone. Many people struggle with whether they do something because it is tradition or because it is something they enjoy and/or a part of who they are (and would do the action even if they learned it was a misinterpretation of what they believed was tradition)
· Highspren do not sound as fun to be bonded with as other the other Radiant spren.
· Szeth “was Truthless no longer, but he still did as his masters required. He simply trusted that in the highspren and Dalinar, he had chosen better master”. And this, Szeth, is one of your biggest problems. You need to think for yourself. Part of growing up and being an adult, is to think for yourself. If you make mistakes, learn from them (hopefully). Ad Dalinar has noted before, one needs to keep taking the next step. By constantly allowing others to always lead your every major decision, then one cannot grow.
Szeth seems to have regressed, doesn’t he? He appeared to be well on the way to making his own decisions back in OB. His spren appears to be a bad influence.
I really wonder about the jerky highspren and how Aux is so very different from the glimpses of them so far in SA. One of Dalinar’s visions of Nale’s past when he briefly connected to him in RoW was Nale _kneeling_ before his highspren. And one of the Skybreaker masters back in OB talked about _praying_ to his highspren. Urgh.
In some ways it almost seems like an abusive relationship, or at least a dysfunctional one that is keeping him from really gaining his own sense of self.
My comments and questions to Chapter 20
Chapter 20
· I can relate to the Stormfather. If I had enemies, I would be jealous that I could not kill him/her myself.
· There is less trust in the meeting of the monarchs than there was among the counsel of leaders at the beginning of AMoL.
· I give Adolin credit. He is trying to fit in where he thinks he will do the best.
· I would not be surprised if the Listeners and the Chasmfiends who protect them help turn the tide in the Battle at the Shattered Plains. I could foresee the Chasmfiends taking down the Thunderclast.
· Why is it that Alethi law governs. Why would the other laws not govern (for example Azuri when concerning Azuri land and Thaylen when concerning Thaylen land). And why does everyone assume that Alethi law has to govern?
· Since the dispute started Desolations ago, could you argue that laws from the time of the Silver Epoch or even when Odium first came to the Rosharian System govern this contract. It was eons in the making?
· One of the reasons that Chana may be present is because Szeth thinks is Highspren will not allow him to learn to use Division. This is the Surge most associated with Dustbringers. It is a stretch.
Good point. I automatically assumed Alethi law as the mortal in the deal was Dalinar. But we also know he is King of Urithuru and the Azhish were helping to create specific laws for the coalition. Maybe there is something there that can be exploited- though knowing Azhish, they probably didn’t leave any loopholes!
I agree SO much about Szeths spren haha! Screw you! Let the dude be happy he’s finally back in shinovar, chiding him for “sentiment” is BS, and I hope Kal helps him be more open about that and not let himself be bossed around so much. I’m starting to think most of the high spren have been shaped by Nale in the years since the recreance, they seem so much like him.
Sigzils high spren in sunlit was night and day more friendly and chill. Just so damn excited to see the rest of his flashbacks past the sample ones we got.
I loved the strategy meeting, really awesome to see it all broken down and the stakes are absolutely finale level stuff.
Cool etail they can feel Rayse is gone once they focus on it, I want to see SF and sibling interact more, it’s awesome. Hopefully stormfather can return to being his old happy self sometimes haha.
Sigzil has to get the dawnshard and leave at some point early on..not sure how that will fit into the narrative.
While Adolin is totally justified in being pissed at Dalinar, now is not the time and they really need to work through their crap.
I love how the reveal of the Ghostbloods is just like an oh by the way..offhand remark when it’s an insanely dangerous offworld group, but maybe Kel will intervene and get the rosharan faction to stop being so brutal.
I don’t think that Sigzil will get the Dawnshard before the second half of SA. He thought in TSM that he stopped aging at 38, but he is still a young guy in WaT, around Kaladin’s age.
I don’t think Szeth is being rude when he asks if Kal is a coward, he’s just a blunt guy, he’s not trying to be mean or anything he was genuinely asking since Kal retired now, he knows how skilled he is in combat, they can both teach each other some things.
Kal can help Szeth just be his own person instead of always needing a master, be more like his pre truthless self
I also started cracking up audlbly at Kmakls comment hahah. Copy that let me write that down haha..don’t break god contracts
I don’t see Szeth as insulting Kaladin.. remember in Shin society warriors are the lowest caste, Kals newfound pacifism would be respected by shin not condemned, but Szeths kind of muddled with his old beliefs versus the fact he’s been fighting for a decade now.
He wasn’t trying to be a dick or chide him, he was genuinely posing a question, he isn’t alethi where combat prowess is the pinnacle.
Also yeah, in OB remember in regards to hearing Nightblood Szeth said it reminded him of the voice he heard in his childhood, which we’ve always theorized was a spren he was bonding that led to knowing about the coming everstorm. Id like to think it was a windspren haha, though we know Syl was the only one as far as she knows
I don’t think it’s a mystery why stormfather hates Rayse so much..? Not only is he partially Tanavasts CS but odium has been fighting and killing radiants for millenia and killed honor..of course SF would despise Rayse. His reaction was first one of shock like, after all this time there wasn’t some huge grand explosive moment but he just died randomly with no pomp and we didn’t even notice? He’s just startled by that is all
Thinking about Connection and Dalinar’s unexplored powers, I wonder if there’s a way for him to use his Bondsmith abilities (perhaps even in combination with Hemalurgy) to “pin” a cognitive shadow’s Connection to the physical realm instead of the cognitive one. This would be a huge discovery for several familiar characters and could be what Ishar was trying to do with those spren.
I get why the comments are full of doom and gloom for Adolin’s survival prospects, but I’m still optimistic. I remember people were saying the same thing about Lirin during the preview chapters for RoW, and while it was certainly a close call, the resolution of that specific arc was one of the most glorious parts of the book 4 Sanderlanche. While there was a character death–and it was a doozy–that death was the catalyst for everything that followed.
Cheer up people. Remind yourselves this is Brandon Sanderson, not G.R.R.M. Character deaths for the sake of breaking the reader’s heart are not the Brando Sando way. Maybe my logic is a bit meta, and perhaps it’s straight-up copium, but I’m sticking with it and trusting my favorite author to do things right.
The direction Adolin is heading, leading the best of the best in the defense of Azimir, just doesn’t strike me as setting him up to die in a way that means anything to the story, and that doesn’t feel I think it’s setting him up to revive Maya and find another way to be the son his father wants him to be.
That said, I think that there is a chance Adolin is being set up to be TOdium’s champion. But it’s also feeling a bit like another red herring.
I guess all we can do is RAFO.
I totally feel this way. Sanderson isn’t GRRM. I think Sanderson doesn’t usually kill one half of a happily married couple.
Also about the acrimony between Adolin and Dalinar, I am hoping it is just tension building up before a grand resolution!!!
This statement from Wit seems like it has to do with how the fight between Honor and Odium turned out. Odium is bound in the Rosharan system because he and Honor made an agreement along the lines of “We’ll stay in this system and fight it out until only one remains.” And now we know from Cultivation that Honor’s power remains intact even though Tanavast died, thus holding Odium to that ancient agreement even though he won.
Furthermore, I’m guessing this was Tanavast’s plan. He created a situation that would contain Odium/Rayse no matter the outcome of the battle. But because the plan essentially hinged on a loophole of wording, it ran against Honor’s Intent in a way that weakened his power and led to his defeat. Although, being Honor, it’s a fair bet that he knew the risk existed and took it on willingly.
I think part of the huge reveal has already been lain before us. Taravangian asked for the capacity to stop what was coming, and got a dual nature. That nature allowed him to trick Szeth and Rayse, to ascend to Odium, but we may yet see that it will also give him the capacity to lose when the time is right.
Add that to the Rhythyms of Honor and Odium combining to create the Rhythym of War, we may end up with Dalinar and Taravangian atop Urithiru, Tarvangian with the capacity to lose granted by Cultivation in her super long game, and then Dalinar gets to Unite them, as has been his goal since the Way of Kings. He will bind the two, creating the Shard of War, equal and opposite to Harmony, setting up the later conflict between Scadrail and Roshar, but in the short term, allowing a path to peace between humans and singers.
Theory related to the epigraphs for day 2.
Could the people in the parable be the Iriali? Coppermind says the Iriali were not native to Roshar, and the Silver Kingdom of Iri was founded during the desolations.
One small thing, Shob said there was a Ghostblood spy near Dalinar while he was talking to Cultivation. I wonder how much they heard of that conversation?
The map is very helpful, thank you. :)
Count me as also concerned for a non-Fused/Skybreaker attack on the Tower.
I don’t quite understand WHY changing capitols wouldn’t work. Is there something in the contract itself that forbids it? Why wouldn’t they be allowed to use the loophole? Or is it just that Alethi legal code would make it too hard to do?