Sanderfans! Guess what? Guess what?!!! Wind and Truth releases in FOUR DAYS! No more waiting a whole week for another morsel, another tantalizing cliffhanger, another revelation-packed POV that you absolutely MUST READ! Now’s the time to finally RAFO, baby! But before you get there… Last week we discussed the events of chapter 33 and the end of Day 2. Frustratingly, we didn’t get to see what happened to Navani, Dalinar, Gavinor, Shallan, Renarin, and Rlain, who are all currently missing. Perhaps we’ll find out in Day 3? This week, in our final discussion before our upcoming full-spoiler review of the full novel, we’re diving into a couple of Interludes, featuring El and Odium. I know a lot of people have been waiting for El to show up and he does not disappoint.
Oh, and be sure to check out the social media section at the end of the article to see if we spotlighted one of your comments!
Note that this post will possibly (likely) contain full Cosmere spoilers, so beware if you aren’t caught up on all Cosmere content. And please remember, when posting or commenting about these preview chapters on social media, follow your platform’s spoiler rules. Your comments here, however, don’t need to be spoiler-tagged, so feel free to comment as you will down below!
Paige’s Summary and Commentary
Interlude 3 is El’s interlude. El… We’ve seen a lot of people jonesing for an El POV and, well, here it is! We see El—“who had no title”—approaching the vault at the Kholinar palace. He has no rhythm as he orders the guards to open the vault and they obey. He enters, accompanied by a Regal. El talks with the Regal as he searches the vault and notices how timid the Regal is. Pardon me for posting a snippet from the interlude you just read, but I feel like revisiting the direct quote is warranted here:
“It is all right,” El said. “I assume one Fused noticed your passion and put you up for elevation—but since then, others have reprimanded you for standing up for yourself. Now you don’t know the proper way, because society is in shambles and my kind refuse to be proper role models.”
The Regal hummed to Craving. A sign of agreement, and wanting more treatment like this. He got that rhythm right.
“My kind wear thin, like shoes walked upon for too many miles,” El said softly. “My honor was stripped in part because I warned of the signs. We cannot rule much longer.”
“Like shoes walked upon for too many miles,” is how he describes the Fused, and not only is that poetic—in my opinion, it’s very accurate. The Fused are wearing out, they’re either giving into madness or already there. And El knows it. It’s funny that he would admit it to a Regal, and a timid one, at that.
Finally El finds what he’s looking for: Jezrien’s prison, the gemstone still attached to the dagger that “killed” Jezrien. The Regal warns him that it’s dangerous but, of course, El knows this. And with no further ado, no grand proclamation, no fanfare, he simply touches an anti-Stormlight gemstone to the tip of the dagger. The anti-Light is pulled out of the gemstone and flows into Jezrien’s prison. There is a tiny explosion, much smaller than the one which killed Navani’s ardents; it’s hardly big enough to crack the gemstone.
And just like that, what’s left of Jezrien is gone and he is truly destroyed. Seems so anticlimatic for the leader of the Heralds to just… poof… crack a gemstone and cease to exist. ::sad face::
The Regal is horrified and draws fearspren. Apparently, Jezrien’s soul, or whatever was left of it, was quite a valuable treasure. El tells the Regal that none deserve the punishment of that imprisonment. He mentions how it was thought that the prisons would hold humans but that they don’t work well. So presumably, they’d hold a Fused, yes?
El tells the Regal to run to the Nine to tell them what happened. He says it’s their fault for not warning the guards about him.
“And perhaps I bear some fault. For being me. Naturally.”
El is so… unusual. He has no rhythms, he’s very critical of the other Fused, and he seems to have nothing but disdain for the Nine.
As El sits to wait for capture, I’m assuming, he’s visited by none other than the voice of Odium, who asks him what he’s done, questioning this apparent “act of treason by one of the Fused”… It’s an interesting moment as El, ignoring Odium, considers the sound of the voice and realizes that it’s not quite right.
He calls Odium out, saying he sees him for what he is, and what he is not. Bold of him to challenge Odium this way, but he knows that the old Odium had hated being challenged. The new Odium, however… He realizes who El is and laments that he hasn’t paid more attention to him.
Odium then appears to El and asks for his help in solving a problem as both a test and a necessity. He talks of capturing the world as he peruses the items in the vault, stating that he is confident that he can secure Thaylenah and Shinovar—wait… Shinovar? How is he going to secure Shinovar? There’s no army of singers heading there, is there? This kind of took me off guard as I don’t recall a great deal of the beta read (it was some time ago, you see). So I’m here wondering how and why Odium is to “capture” Shinovar. What do you think of this proclamation, Sanderfans?
Odium goes on to say that he thinks his army in Shadesmar is sufficient to take Azimir but that he’s troubled by the Shattered Plains. El notes that he’s sent “great numbers of Fused” to the Shattered Plains and Odium wonders if that’s odd. El does wonder what the value in this relative wasteland, compared to Thaylen City and Azimir. Odium hedges and says that he wants to send even greater numbers to the Shattered Plains, asking El how he would handle that. El says Odium already knows the answer and Odium reflects that “Dai-Gonarthis is dangerous to unleash.”
Whosie-whatie?
Let’s visit the Coppermind for a moment. And we are greeted with the one death rattle we’ve seen that mentions the Unmade. Maybe Unmade? There’s apparently some doubt but I’m going to go with, yeah, it’s an Unmade.
“Let me no longer hurt! Let me no longer weep! Dai-Gonarthis! The Black Fisher holds my sorrow and consumes it!”
—Tanatesach 1173, 28 seconds pre-death. A darkeyed female street juggler. Note similarity to sample 1172-89.
In Hessi’s Mythica, she mentions that Dai-Gonarthis may have been involved in the scouring of Aimia. Its name is also mentioned along with other Unmade, so my conclusion is that this is, indeed, an Unmade.
Odium seems hesitant.
“Dai-Gonarthis is dangerous to unleash,” Odium said.
“Despite that,” El said, “if you require an Elsegate, she is the sole option—unless you have access to corrupted Elsecallers or a proper Honorblade.”
“I have neither yet,” Odium said as he walked back to El. “You have traveled with the Black Fisher before.”
“Yes,” he said. “Most of the lands you’d want are still protected from her touch, but Natanatan… Perhaps. You would need a strong source of Investitureon either side. And someone to lead your armies.”
So Odium wants El to lead his army headed to the Shattered Plains. And he’s going to unleash a terrible Unmade, one that El has traveled with before. He warns that if El serves him, he may have to kill more of his former friends and El states that annihilation is a mercy, and what they deserve for enslaving his people.
Odium instructs El to travel to the Horneater Peaks; he will send Dai-Gonarthis to him there.
“Use her… particular talents to take the garrison at the Peaks, and claim the Shattered Plains in my name. I will pay her price another time.”
So El needs to go to the well, but he thinks of what Odium has left unsaid, such as why he is interested in the Shattered Plains and how he knows that there will be enough power to Connect them at the well. “Connect…” with a capital C. So does he need to be Connected to Dai-Gonarthis to control her? Just how scary is this Unmade? And Odium will have to pay her a price for her assistance? I don’t know if I’m more frightened of her or Ba-ado-Mishram at this point.
Before Odium departs, El mentions that the Nine won’t be happy with this situation, with El working for Odium. Odium then states that the Nine will report to El. El has a request: If he helps Odium claim the world, can he can rule the human lands? Odium replies that he will grant that wish.
El is fascinated at the turn the day has taken and feels enraptured at how he thinks the Nine will react.
I don’t know about you, Sanderfans, but an enraptured El is mighty scary. Whew… what an interlude! I absolutely want to hear your all thoughts on this scene… but not yet. First, we have to see what Odium gets up to after this scene…
Interlude 4 is, of course, focused on Odium; it’s titled “The Wrong Lesson” and is rather brief. We see Taravangian strolling through Kholinar, unseen, and he is torn… teetering back and forth between options, trying to decide what to do. He could take his singers to Jah Kaved and just let them exist there. He reasons that he doesn’t have to bring order to the whole cosmere, does he? Then he decides that yes, he does.
He wonders if his dual nature is why Cultivation had chosen him to take up the shard of Odium, if the divide within him is why she gave him this curse and boon.
To create a person who could legitimately Connect to the power of Odium and take it, but one who would then be made impotent by the two warring sides within.
I don’t think he’ll be impotent and unable to act, in the end. I think the rage he speaks of, the sheer emotion that is Odium will win out over whatever humanity Taravangian has left. Which isn’t much, in my opinion. No matter how much he cared about people on his “stupid” days before ascending, that capacity for caring isn’t enough to overcome the emotions of the Shard.
Then Cultivation appears, standing beside him. She asks if he would like to see what she can show him and he has to calm his rage before he nods. They gaze upward and she shows him each Shard and how she thought it should be, each Shard “governing their own lands.” And ideally, that’s how it should be, right? I mean, it makes sense.
She tells Taravangian that there doesn’t have to be one god and implores him to let them be. But Taravangian sees something different; he sees that gods can be afraid… of him. He realizes that the power of Odium as wielded by his predecessor had killed several of them, and believes that he himself can do better.
Cultivation tells him not to learn the wrong lesson and she shows him gods who have turned away from him, content to let his danger stay trapped, happy to leave all three gods of Roshar to themselves and their own conflict. And really, Sanderfans, why should it be any different? The other Shards have their own concerns to tend to, their own worlds and their own peoples. Why should they care for what’s happening on Roshar, since Odium is trapped.
But will he remain trapped? That’s the whole purpose of this book, yes? To find that out?
But Tarvangian—Odium—doesn’t see things that way. He sees these other gods as being isolated and thus easily defeated. He thinks that they will regret ignoring him. He hides those thoughts from Cultivation, though, and takes a moment to wonder why two Shards are missing, hidden. One, he understands why, but he wonders where Valor had gone and how she could hide from him.
I know the very cosmere-aware theorists will have fun with that detail! Be sure to check out Drew’s commentary below!
Back on the ground in Kholinar, Cultivation tells Taravangian that he worries her. You think?
“If I can admit it, you always worried me. I knew what I had to do, but I wish it could have been any other.”
Then why didn’t you choose another? ::crying::
She adds that there is a solid chance that he will do what is right. And he agrees, telling her he will do what is right. She admonishes him not to be smug, and that a part of him knows his path is a terrible one. He feels that, the part of him that loves his family and grieved when he had to manipulate Dalinar, that part of him feels that…
He tells her that he will try. But he is still a god divided and wonders what would happen if he let each side rule in turn.
Yikes, I don’t know about that. Just feels chaotic to me, though Taravangian and Odium are nothing if not chaotic.
So what did you think about our interludes, Sanderfans? Will Sigzil have any hope of facing down armies led by El with a terrifying Unmade on a leash? How? He’s already outnumbered and outclassed, with hordes of Fused and a freaking Thunderclast on their way to the Shattered Plains. Further, why does Odium want the Shattered Plains so badly? What’s there, in Narak, that he wants, and doesn’t know why he wants it?
Lyndsey’s Commentary
Interlude 3: El’s chapter arch icons are Jezrien (Jezerezeh) and Nalan (Nale), Herald of Kings and Herald of Justice, respectively. Jezrien’s presence is pretty obvious; he’s permanently destroyed in this interlude. As for Nale…? Well, I suspect that Nale is here due to his attribute as “Judge.” El is acting as judge, jury, and executioner in this interlude, much as Nale often does.
All four of Interlude 4’s arch icons are taken up by Vedeledev (Vedel), the patron of the Edgedancers. Her attributes are Loving/ Healing and her role is Healer. This is a very interesting choice. My theory is that she’s here because Cultivation is prominent in this chapter, attempting to influence Odium towards a more compassionate and loving stance.
El
Let’s begin with a reminder as to who, exactly, El is: he is a Fused who cannot use rhythms. They were stripped from him as punishment for the crime of admiring humans and wanting to unite humans and Singers. He’s also the one who permanently killed Lezian (the Pursuer), and held the name Vyre before the traitor Moash claimed it. In this interlude, we’re treated to an utterly fascinating glimpse into his mind.
He’s self-confident, perhaps to the point of arrogance. He believes that he knows better than his superiors; however, maybe he does. He notes that the intelligence and sanity of the Fused are wearing thin after so many rebirths, which is a valid observation. And he does seem to possess an acuity and empathy that the others lack. He destroys Jezrien, a former friend, not out of anger or to further some plot, but out of sympathy: A former friend shouldn’t remain trapped within a gemstone, their soul slowly degrading. And he realizes almost immediately that Odium has a new vessel, and plays that knowledge to his advantage. He’s going to be a terrifyingly effective villain, and I’m excited to see what becomes of him.
Odium
Odium’s part in both of these interludes is equally fascinating. He’s got some pretty major plans in motion, clearly, and plays a verbal chess match with El regarding said plans and his motivations. He never really answers the question about why he wants to take the Shattered Plains so badly, but he does slip a bit when El interrupts him. Taravangian’s losing a bit of himself to Odium, but I doubt it will be enough to inhibit his plans for world (and universal) domination. He’s also capable of some real arrogance; but that’s nothing new. Taravangian has always believed himself to be wiser and kinder than everyone else (depending on which side of the empathic coin he’s on), and godhood has only elevated the inclinations that were already there. His desire to dominate in order to bring order is very “Type A” personality; he doesn’t delegate power well or easily. He believes that HE is the only one who can do things right, and finds it hard to trust others to do anything in his stead. But then… at the end of the second interlude, we do get this one moment of true compassion. Is it possible that this new Odium (Toadium is my personal preference for nickname) could not be the villain we’ve assumed him to be? Can he be redeemed? Turned back to the light side of the Force, as it were?
Only time will tell, and time is ticking. Wind and Truth will be released on December 6th, only four days from now. Are you ready to experience the conclusion of the first half of the Stormlight Archive? Questions will be answered, battles fought, lives lost and won, and we’re along for the ride of the century. Hold on tight, my Cosmere Chickens… because you’ve got one storming heck of a ride ahead of you.
A quick note: If you’re attending Dragonsteel Nexus, follow me on social media (Facebook, Bluesky, and Tiktok are the ones I primarily use) to hunt me down for a special Cosmere Chicken badge ribbon! I’ll have a few other fun ones as well, and my own books to sell on Friday in the Exhibitor’s Hall. I love to chat about the Cosmere and am a huge extrovert, so please feel free to visit! I’d love to see you.
Drew’s Commentary: Invested Arts & Theories
It’s our last set of interludes before the release of Wind and Truth, and Brandon’s given us some intriguing information to chew on over the next couple of days. We kick things off with none other than El!
El has to be one of the most inscrutable characters in all of The Stormlight Archive. Between his ominous “musings” over the Final Ten Days and the one scene at the end of Rhythm of War, he is being set up as a truly intimidating new presence among the Fused. He has no title, no rhythms, but a fearsome reputation even among the named Fused we met in Oathbringer and Rhythm of War.
Not to mention the crazy metal implants he wears instead of carapace.
And now here we see him casually strolling about, ignoring the rules and laws set down by Odium and the Nine, and blithely finishing off what remained of Jezrien like it’s any normal Tuesday afternoon. Oh, and he has a calm chat with Vargodium immediately after, which is what brings us to the really juicy new info:
“Dai-Gonarthis is dangerous to unleash,” Odium said.”
Enter the Black Fisher! One of the most mysterious of the Unmade—so mysterious, in fact, that historians on Roshar weren’t even certain she was among their number. And she can create Elsegates! She apparently comes at a steep price, though it seems El is willing to roll the dice.
You would need a strong source of Investiture on either side.
This is curious as well. Odium’s interest in the Shattered Plains is far more intense than we might expect, as El rightly points out. This isn’t the “reasonable” explanation given of forces being too far away or Odium being confident enough in his other plans. There is a great deal of focus being put on the Shattered Plains, and now we have the implication that Odium has access to a lot of Investiture there—since we know that Dai-Gonarthis is going to be starting this Elsegate at the Horneater Peaks, presumably using Cultivation’s shardpool up there.
(Hmmm, I wonder what Rock is up to these days? Anyway…)
“No titles. Please.”
El doesn’t even want a title. I get the feeling that he enjoys being the odd one out, and likes how it puts the other Fused off-balance. And now he’s been given command of the vast majority of the Fused as they’re sent to do Odium’s bidding on the Shattered Plains. That could make for some internal strife.
Next, we have a doozy of a Vargodium POV, rounding out the preview chapters.
She led him to gaze upward, toward stars only they could number. He stood rooted on Roshar—he could not visit these places, but he could see them. With her help, he was given a new perspective on how she thought it should be, each Shard in their realm of influence, governing their own lands.
And:
He instead was most curious about the fact that two of the Shards appeared to be missing, completely vanished from interacting with the others. One he understood with some effort. But Valor—where had Valor gone, and how did she hide from even his eyes?
Hoo boy. There is a heaping mountain of Cosmere and Shardic geopolitics just dumped on us right here. We’ve known for a while now about the Shardic agreement to leave each other alone (and know that many of them immediately ignored that agreement, heading off to either settle together, as on Sel and Roshar, or even creating new worlds and life, as with Preservation and Ruin on Scadrial).
But the stubborn insistence on leaving Odium stuck on Roshar with Cultivation and Honor, and then ignoring the conflict there, seems to be setting up Vargodium for an extremely dangerous future in the Cosmere. He’s smarter than Rayse, craftier, and less influenced by the Intent of his Shard. I get the impression that most of the original Sixteen are more or less crippled by inertia at this point, simply going along with their individual Intents and happy to leave the problems to others.
Then there are the two mysteries. Valor, totally missing from even Shardic awareness. And this unnamed Shard, which Odium found “with some effort.” Which one of these is the infamous “Survival Shard,” which Brandon has mentioned and been questioned about at length over the years?
Valor is of special note here as well, since she was mentioned in the letters in Rhythm of War. You’d think that their Intent would be more inclined to help deal with the problem of Odium—in fact, hiding like this seems almost diametrically opposed to the Intent. There’s a bigger story here, and I wonder if this isn’t going to be something Brandon ends up writing a Secret Projectabout.
What are your thoughts on Valor? Is she the Survival Shard, or is it this other, unnamed Shard?
That’s a wrap for our preview chapters. It’s going to be a blast seeing all the crazy theories that come out of the rest of this book, some of which we’ll discussing in our upcoming review and digging into as the Wind and Truth reread continues in January.
Also, like Lyn, I’ll be at Dragonsteel Nexus later this week! Swing by booth 221 to say hi, and chat theories!
Fan Theories
Over on Reactor, John says:
Bondsmiths? Trapped in the Spiritual Realm. Kaladin? In Shinovar. Adolin? Extra angsty. Shallan? Fighting her inner and outer conflicts. Oh yeah, it’s all coming together (for an Odium Victory).
Is that where you all fall, Sanderfans? Are you expecting an Odium victory?
Also on Reactor, Fabius Varro says:
Dalinar and Navani can afford to be lost for a few days and Dalinar can prepare himself inside the Spiritual Realm. But only Lord knows how Wit will intervene into this fight. I’m kinda disappointed he didn’t take the Ghostbloods threat seriously.
Isilel has this to say:
So much to unpack. So, the long-standing theories about the roots of stone veneration by the Shin are wrong. It has nothing to do with the humans promising to stay in Shinovar. Too bad that we likely won’t see the scene of their arrival on Roshar now.
Speaking of which—what in cosmere are Mraize and Iyatil thinking?! Will this explosion somehow transfer all those present on both sides into Spiritual Realm? Because otherwise they have just closed their only path in there, as well as doomed the Coalition.
Lift’s presence must be important somehow—either she’ll be swept into Spiritual Realm too and do something there, or she will be instrumental in dragging the others out of it.
Over on Reddit, adjason ponders Odium’s champion…
Jasnah Kal and szeth paper scissors rock as Honors champion
…and Loud_Cheesecake5145 also ponders Lift’s and Gav’s situation:
Hear me out, just a quick theory. Since Gav and Lift are in the room the same time the perpendicularity explodes and probably gets pulled into the Spiritual Realm, likely that Lift might actually age and her purpose will become to take care of Gav, right? Anyhow what if Ba-Ado-Mishram bonds with Gav?!
And thus we have another question: can an Unmade bond with a host? They are spren. But we’ve seen nothing so far that suggests this might be a thing. Does anyone have any insight?
Loud_Cheesecake5145 goes on to provide another Gav theory:
There’s another theory down here that Gav ages in the spiritual realm, becomes angry at Dalinar and becomes Odium’s champion. Which I think is a good one because my issue with the Gav Odium champion theory was the age (would be weird to make an 8 year old a champion).
BornUnderaBlackSun has this thought…
I feel like I’m taking crazy pills. Dalinar is the worst possible choice to become Honor. If he gets the shard and still loses then Todium gets a shard who can leave the system and has to do his bidding
…and boleslaws answers with:
Maybe in the end, Dalinar will manage to combine the shards of Honour and Odium, becoming War, just like Harmony in the Mistborn
Very interesting thoughts to close out our last discussion article before Friday, Sanderfans. We’ll try to visit the comments here and the socials to see what you think about these interludes!
Thus ends our preview chapter discussion articles! We’ll be back with a full-spoiler review/discussion of the book very soon, then we’ll be taking the rest of December off to enjoy the holidays (and let you fine people catch up on the rest of this very, very long book)! Then we’ll be back in January to pick up right where we left of and begin the reread with Day 3. We hope you enjoy the book, and we’ll see you soon for more discussion and theory-swapping!
I feel like there is a subtle joke here that Odium cannot see Valor, because Valor is being discrete. And we all know that discretion is the greater part of Valor…
Hahahaha that is PERFECT. totally something Sando would do.. Whimsy as the other one being able to hide makes sense too, like an impish whimsical sprite that vanish.
It’s weird though like, masking investiture is one thing, but an entire shard..?
We did learn in OB that lightweaving is stealthy & windrunners surges aren’t, but valor is facing danger with strength. There’s also the survival shard too, last unnamed one.
Bumrushing the plains makes me worry he knows how they got shattered..dawnshard perhaps? That’s the go to theory for years for everything but it does make sense since Sigzil is supposed to get his and go offworld and he’s going to be there
Maybe it’s characterization. It might be that Odium cannot see Valor because he has so little of the attribute in himself. That would be a neat little way to phrase that.
Thanks so much to our intrepid discussants!
I’m so sad, I’m off for a trip on late thursday, and probably won’t be able to get the book for another week at least.
BUT I NEED WIND AND TRUTH!!! LOOL
anyways, TOdium is a right proper villain, and i don’t see a “come to the good” side to him, Cultivation gambled, and may have lost her gamble. I’m also surprised that Todium didn’t (yet?) notice the intrusion into the spirtual realm by so many.
El is shaping up to be the Rabinonal of this book, loving it!
But notice El isn’t called out as TOdium’s champion, and its not even a wot, fight for naeblis situation, so we still are unsure of who the champion will be!
Also, i’m wracking my brain trying to remember what sizgzil does at the shattered plains, because doesn’t he mention the Sunlit Man that he betrayed all there?
oooh, chills!
In fairness, we are still not sure what Cultivation’s end game truly is – if this was really a gamble and if she has already won or lost.
So… is Odiums perpendicularity at the shattered plains?
“This left many things unsaid. Why Odium was so interested in the Shattered Plains. How he knew that there would be enough power to Connect them to the well at the Horneater Peaks.
The solution to both unsaid questions was likely the same.”
There needs to be a perpendicularity-level amount of Investiture (it seems) to use the Black Fisher. Honor’s and Cultivation’s are already in their own places (Peaks, Highstorm) and Autonomy isn’t involved here to do her weird Perpendicularity nonsense. The Ghostbloods have a very hard time creating purified Dor, so it can’t be a pool of that.
Only things that’s left is Odium.
The big thing for me is..we still don’t know what shattered the plains..and we know Sigzil gets a dawnshard and goes offworld, and he’s going to be there, we know near death Honor was ranting about the dawnshard and for years people theorized that’s where Honor was killed..Seems like those details intertwine, being the location of his perpendicularity makes sense since they need investiture on both sides but wouldn’t El know where it is?
I can’t believe he just dropped the mystery unmade on us just like that. We know it’s a sentient one like Sja Anat so should be super dangerous.
Idk, last 4 years I totally dismissed the Gav theory but aging in the spiritual realm would definitely help that pan out, though then it wouldn’t align with the death rattle about sparing a babe and dooming everyone.
I think an Odium victory is inevitable, whole reason BS replaced Rayse was he lost too much and wasn’t a threat anymore. But I don’t think he’ll end the arc on a downer. Likely a blend of both heading into the timeskip.
But, and I know Brando has said not, maybe honour was shattered on the shattered plains, and some Investiture is there?
I like the idea one of the purposes of Honor’s shattering was connected to the destruction/closure of Odium’s perpendicularity. Perhaps part of that struggle resulted in the shattering of the plains. T-Odium likely needs to use any remaining power to revive that perpendicularity, in order to further his plans for Cosmere domination – perhaps also using the power of (and destroying) Cultivation’s perpendicularity to achieve that goal.
Should have been obvious that T-Odium was trying to split Dalinar’s forces and distract away from the Shattered Plains (rather than the other way around).
I don’t think it’s solely tracking down Venli but I bet Odium does want the Listeners who can become radiant dealt with. Before more Fused defect like Leshwi, before more Singers/former parshmen join, and before Listeners become an important and vital culture again
I presume El doesn’t want a title because he views himself as ‘cast out’ and so rejects those trappings.
“He instead was most curious about the fact that two of the Shards appeared to be missing, completely vanished from interacting with the others. Hidden. One he understood with some effort. But Valor—where had Valor gone, and how did she hide from even his eyes?” – do we think the other one he didn’t name is also the one we don’t know? I was wondering if it was Autonomy as she’s doing her own thing, and in more sneaky ways. On the other hand, she’s definitely interfering on Scadrial so that probably doesn’t count as not interacting with the others or ‘vanishing’.
Going completely to ground could definitely be a ‘survival’ aspect, though.
Too much going on for me to comment, so . . . Let me just say Thanks! to Paige, Lyndsey & Drew and all the commenters. It has been fun going slowly, a week at a time through Book 1. Now, I’m looking forward to some more intense reading when I get my hands on the full book.
Yes, than you Paige, Lindsey, and Drew! Can’t wait for the reread!
El must have done something quite wrong (from the Fused perspective) that El expected the Nine to issue orders that El was not to be obeyed. I wonder if we will learn El’s back story in Books 6-9.
It was inevitable that El had to have a bigger role in Book 5. I wonder why the Fused wanted to retain Jezrien’s trapped soul?
I guess the pattern will be one Interlude for a character and the second for TOdium.
i’m just going to whisper this here into the void but…
there’s no way that el is a reborn elhokar… right?
right?
He would have been highly invested at his death…
El clearly has knowledge and history with both many other Fused and the Heralds, so I would say there is absolutely no way he is Elhokar.
I don’t know if I like the “wearing thin, like shoes walked upon for too many miles” description. I think a better way to say that, and this just came to me now (I’m a bit of a poet myself) is, “Like butter scraped over too much bread”
However: do they even have butter? they don’t have cows.
They canonically have cheese made from hog’s milk. I don’t know enough about milkfat content to say definitively, but it seems likely there’s a butter stage in there somewhere.
Because of the Mynx, I am convinced that Herdazians call greatshells hogs, so they actually just milk greatshells that have dairy for some reason.
“I feel thin, sort of stretched, like butter scraped over too much bread.”? :)
Couple of comments stuck out to me in the conversation between Odium & Cultivation:
One solution will never work for all. That was part of why we had to do what we did, ten thousand years ago.
Gods who turned away from him, content to let the danger stay trapped. Interestingly, they considered all three of the gods of Roshar to be a problem
How long ago did Honor die? is what they did together 10,000 years ago a reference to that?
or since that is Hoid’s age- somethibg to do with him? could Odium and Cultivation somehow be responsible or partially responsible,for Hoid’s existence?
IIRC Honor died some modest amount of time before the Recreance (itself 2000 year ago) and part of why the Recreance happened was because Honor was not around to keep the Radiants calm when they learned unsettling facts, which he had done the previous times those facts came out.
The shattering of Adonalsium was just less than 11000 years ago so that is what I assumed she was referring to, especially since she references there not having to be one god.
My crackpot theory is that Vargodium doesn’t want to become the only Shard remaining, but wants to reunite Adonalsium. He wants to destroy the other shards first so he can then combine them all at once and won’t need to worry about the intents changing his ability to finish the job.
What’s this about killing 7 shards!
I suspect Cultivation’s impact on Toadium will be more akin to the butterfly effect than Taravangian’s compassion winning out over his intellect. Having that capacity might just alter his trajectory ever so slightly but enough to allow for good to win
That’s assuming she’s on the side of “good.”
I’m kinda surprised that no one else has already suggested this. Somehow, Odium knows that Hoid’s dawnshard is/will be at the shattered plains. That’s why victory there is so important. Sigzil will figure it out in time to save the dawnshard, setting up …. But there will be some terrible stuff going on.
Maybe also Taln’s honor blade. But almost certainly the dawnshard.
Do we think the death rattles are infallible, or just likely like Renarin visions? If the death rattles are going to come true, then Odium is going to win a lot in this book. I think it’s pretty clear that at least one of Kaladin and Szeth survive, victorious in Shinovar. It would be sort of poetic if that (and I guess Herdaz, cause the Mink is awesome) are the only remaining human bastions after the contest. The epigraphs for day one are also super ominous, and we know there are some survivors. I think Gawks and Adolin are toast, partly because Odium is confident and partly because it’s the only one of the defenses that seems like the good guys should have an advantage. So they’re missing something that dooms them. I think Thaylen city is toast too, early, because it will show how effective Odium is now without overwhelming the reader with the level if emotional effect the other sites would have. Plus the good guys won there last time. Winning there again without having to put all the main characters there would be lame.
The shattered plains will be very interesting. I expect a lot of twists and momentum shifts there, and a mixed bag of results in the end.
The actual contest and the spiritual realm stuff, I don’t feel like I know where those are going. There will be something about Gavinor, quite possibly around trying to murder champion Moash before he gets to the contest. There will be a lot of cool reveals from spiritual realm visions. Mishram will be scary. Someone is at least getting very close to ascending to Honor, but I think we might see a situation where Dalinar could do it and decides not to. Maybe somehow for Gavinor, after realizing how badly he failed Adolin? Maybe he realizes that he is going to lose the contest and doesn’t want Odium to control Honor. And there might well be another person who tries to jump in when Dalinar turns it down. No evidence for this, but I think it would be cool if an honorspren, e.g. Syl, ascended to Honor. And I think Mraize will try, but not be capable. I wonder if sja-anat can fix Mishram somehow, or thinks she can ascend herself after Mraize can’t fit.
Final crackbrain theory that I can’t imagine Brandon doing to us: the contest of champions doesn’t take place, and it gets replaced with some new sort of truce just in time, maybe with lots of people or lots of singers leaving Roshar. KoWaT said something about how the contest was to happen in the East, not that it happened. And I’m confused about the Heralds, spren, and Wind vanishing between now and the in-world book writing. I can’t imagine how Brandon would make this satisfying after all the build up for a contest over multiple books. But it would be cool if Taravangian decides War Light is worth building, and accepts some different sort of power to influence the wider cosmere. And it would sort of fit WoBs for the thing at the end of Storm light 5, that Brandon adapted from role playing, was that everything pointed to an ultimate combat that didn’t happen.
You mentioned Gav might want to try to kill Moash. This is assuming if Odium chooses Moash. And this is going to be very interesting. If Gav kills Moash, then that means Odium’s champion was harmed by the other side’s forces. Would that be a technicality? As disappointing as that may sound, I am all-in to the chaos that would ensue afterward.
But for reals though, I don’t think that would happen. I think Gav might indeed grow up, but he’ll become wise and become a better ruler. He might end up becoming Dalinar’s champion.
the death rattles are fallible, we saw that when Taravagium was using them to try to tell the future, and they got things’ wrong.
My personal theory is that El is somehow Gavilar that Odium brought back as a fused. He is recognized by Taravangian. He seems to prefer metal armor to carapase. He would make an excellent foil to Dalinar in the contest of champions. He wants to rule the humans. He regards the Heralds a peers.
We also get here that he calls all the heralds his friends, as if he knew them personally. Todium recognizes him by accessing Rayse’s memories. There is also all the knowing how the nine will react to what he will do as if he has worked with them for a long time so I think he has to be a fused from antiquity. He probably lost his forms because he tried to parlay with the Heralds and find a compromise to end the war at some point. That’s my guess anyway.
IMO, El lost his forms because he advocated for not exterminating humans. Rather, El (probably alone among all the Fused) wanted to have a world where the Regals and Singers (the Fused would finally be able to die and there souls depart to wherever souls in the Cosmere go when the physical body dies) rule above humans. All the other Fused, including the Nine, would only be satisfied when all humans on Roshar died.
For what it is worth, by the end, Rabionel would settle for a world where the Fused ruled over humans. She came to this realization when she was reborn in RoW. The Fused could not win the war if they only sought the death of every human.
Bumrushing the plains makes me worry he knows how they got shattered..dawnshard perhaps? That’s the go to theory for years for everything but it does make sense since Sigzil is supposed to get his and go offworld and he’s going to be there.
I just realized something: a proper honorblade. when they did lose the honorblade? I thought Moash had it.
Moash has Jezrien’s honorblade which is Windrunner type. They need an Elsecaller type honorblade for what Odium has in mind.
Question, if anybody knows… I saw in an article that Shallash is going to be the flashback character in one of the final five books. She was the patron of the Lightweavers. But we’ve already had the Lightweaver book with Shallan. The only one left for Ash is the Dustbringers. Does anyone know why she’d be the flashback character of that book? Does she switch orders?
we can presume she does but its way too early to tell whats gong to happen to her.
My bingo cards for Wind and Truth after reading all the previews :
1. Dalinar dies but after doing considerrable damage to Odium which will make BAM the primary antagonist in Era2.
2. Adolin ascends to Honor (with maybe some change from usual shardic powers).
3. Shallan becomes a world-hopper proper as in full-time.
4. Gavinor doesn’t return from spiritual realm and only returns in book 6.
5. Gawx dies by doing something protecting Azimir.
6. Kaladin becomes the elected leader of Urithiru & Knights Radiants as Navani refuses to be the leader.
7. Szeth completes his quest, completes 4th ideal and then does something to sacrifice himself for greater good of Shinovar.
8. Sigzil & co gets whipped in Shattered Plains, and Sigzil does something to that is better for others but against the oaths resulting in loosing his Windrunner bond.
9. Auxiliary is really Szeth’s highspren and will bond Sigzil later between the two arcs over regret that he could’ve helped Szeth more.
10. Taln will join the action in Shattered plains toward the end.
11. 5 of the 10 heralds will be completely done for in Era1. Jezrien (already ticked), Kelek, Nale,
Ishar I’m confident, 5th could be either Chana or one of the ones we haven’t seen on-screen so far i.e. Vedel/Pailiah/Battar.
Happy reading Sanderlanche Ultra Max Pro, to all the Sanderfans here and beyond !
Based on what happened in the Lost Metal, I assume that Autonomy is the other shard Odium can’t see initially. She hides the Kandra from Harmony so it would make sense the other shards can’t see her well. While it feels strange for Valor to be invisible, as well maybe they have found a way to hide and plan independently of everyone else. That will be fun to see going forward!
I think the wound Odium suffered was against Ambition in Therondy. Hopefully we will learn more about that in the future.
As for the Shattered Plains, from the Sunlit Man we know Sigzil takes up a Dawnshard and feels like a failure. The Dawnshard may be in the Shattered Plains and be what Odium wants. Sigzil may lose the battle and fail to protect but save the Dawnshard in the end, leaving him embittered and feeling like a failure.
The travel to the Peaks is also ripe with possibility because the Mink is headed there as well.
Will the Mink get there first and intercept El. Will the two fight in Herdaz and prevent El from getting to the plains quickly? Or will the Mink and allies, possibly even Rock, follow through the gateway to interfere in the battle there. The timing is critical and I can’t wait to see what happens. It seems like Herdaz might be involved in this final book, I really hope Rock gets involved protecting Cultivations Perpendicularity. We will all see soon!
Just wondering when the re-read will start.
Per https://reactormag.com/full-spoiler-discussion-of-brandon-sandersons-wind-and-truth/#comment-1011019 chapters 34-36 are queued up to be posted on Monday.