Towers of Midnight, the second to last book in Robert Jordan’s Wheel of Time saga, is brimming over with amazing moments, from Perrin’s battles with Slayer, Egwene’s machinations in the Tower, Rand’s defense of Maradon, the forging of Perrin’s hammer, Mat’s rescue of Moiraine, and onward. To Wheel of Time readers, these moments were somewhat expected. They’re all main characters, after all, so of course they’re all going to do something fantastic.
What really took readers and fans like myself by surprise were the two gut-wrenching chapters near the end of the book where Aviendha watches the slow unraveling of the Aiel people. Shortly after the publication of Towers of Midnight there was some question as to whether Aviendha had actually seen the future past The Last Battle and, if so, if that future was fluid. A Memory of Light answered both of these questions, but it left a smaller one behind. Namely: Exactly how far in time did Aviendha see?
This isn’t a question that demands an answer, but it’s our only glimpse into the series’ Fourth Age and I like theorizing about the Fourth Age as well as deducing exact figures from environmental clues. Aviendha’s trip through the “way-forward ter’angreal” is difficult to pin down, but given the clues from the book itself, as well as some confirmed facts about Aes Sedai from the forthcoming Wheel of Time Companion encyclopedia, I was able to arrive at a likely number for Aviendha’s trip through time.
Let’s begin.
It turns out that passing through the Rhuidean ter’angreal again causes Aviendha to see six iterations, or generations, of Aiel that turn out to be her descendants. The ter’angreal starts Aviendha at the very last descendant of her bloodline and works its way back to Aviendha’s direct offspring. What follows is that same journey, reversed into chronological order.
Note: The Last Battle occurs in the year 1000 NE (New Era) according to the in-universe calendar. For the sake of clarity we’ll continue to use that numbering even though the turning of the Age may have called for a new calendar.
First Iteration
What Happens: This viewing reveals all four of Aviendha and Rand’s prophecied quadruplets, and also reveals that all four have the highly unusual quality of being able to automatically channel since birth. We see this viewing through the perspective of Aviendha’s daughter Padra, and learn that Padra has one sister, Marinna, and two brothers: Alarch and Janduin. We also meet Ronam, Rhuarc and Lian’s son.
The links to Aviendha, Rand, and the Last Battle are directly stated in this iteration. It has been 17 years since Tarmon Gai’don. It is highly likely that the quadruplets were conceived during Rand and Aviendha’s night together at the beginning of A Memory of Light, that means that in the viewing Padra and her brethren are 16 years old.
At the end of the viewing, the 11 clan chiefs gathered in Arad Doman declare war on the Seanchan.
Notable Revelations: Tuon’s rule of Seanchan is “honorable” but doesn’t last long. Mat’s fate becomes ominous as a result, and since we hear of damane and sul’dam in subsequent iterations, this must mean that even if Tuon introduced reforms to halt the collaring of channelers, those reforms were surely reversed upon her assassination.
We also know that this iteration likely never comes to pass, since Aviendha was able to warn Rand in A Memory of Light to include the Aiel in the Dragon’s Peace, an agreement they are clearly not beholden to in Aviendha’s viewing.
Huh?: A huge meeting of Aiel leaders that hasn’t been seen since before The Last Battle? Why wouldn’t Aviendha be there?
Years After The Last Battle: 17 (1017 NE)
Second Iteration
What Happens: We see through the perspective of Oncala, a Maiden of the Spear, as she visits a rebuilt Caemlyn and tricks the ruler of Andor into joining the Aiel’s war against the Seanchan.
Andor’s ruler is not Elayne but her granddaughter Talana, a “middle-aged woman with deep, lustrous red hair.” Oncala mentions that the grandmothers of both her and Talana were first-sisters, signifying their relationship to Aviendha and Elayne. Despite this relationship, Oncala is extremely arrogant and contemptuous of Talana and pretty much all “wetlanders,” since they have stayed neutral in the Aiel’s four-decades-long war with the Seanchan. Oncala presents Talana with Seanchan plans for the assassination of all neutral rulers, but doesn’t tell Talana that these are only theoretical contingency plans. It is heavily implied that Andor and its allied powers will join the war against the Seanchan.
Notable Revelations: Rhuidean is under siege by Seanchan forces but the Seanchan have otherwise stayed in the lands they conquered before The Last Battle. Talana’s brother is the captain-of-arms in Andor, continuing a long Andoran tradition.
No mention is made as to whether Oncala, Talana, or Talana’s brother can channel.
The Two Rivers is mentioned separately from Andor, implying that it does eventually become its own country. The Court of the Sun is mentioned, which we know means the alliance between Andor and Cairhien. The Pact of the Griffin is also mentioned, which we know through the marriage of Faile and Perrin means the alliance between Saldaea, the Two Rivers, and the Two Rivers’s liege nation Ghealdan.
Years After The Last Battle: 57? (1057 NE?)
Huh?: Where is Queen Elayne? While an Aes Sedai’s age can range from 200 to 800 years dependent on her strength in the One Power, thanks to this Wheel of Time Companion entry regarding the Oath Rod, we know that the Oaths restrict an Aes Sedai’s lifespan to 300 years. Elayne was born in 981 NE, and even though she was ordered by Egwene to take the Aes Sedai Oaths, she would still be in the first third of her lifespan by the time of this viewing. So where is she?
It’s possible that Elayne rules from Cairhien, or has created a new capital city for the Court of the Sun (possibly from Aringill), ruling ceremonially from there. It’s also possible that Elayne has abdicated her throne to her offspring in order to serve as an ambassador. Alternately, Elayne may actually be Amyrlin at this point in time, since Cadsuane Sedai would have reached the end of her lifespan. There is, of course, a more simple and grim explanation, one that would fit the “tone” of this timeline: Elayne dies well before her time.
Even if Elayne dies prematurely, there remains the question of the fate of her and Rand’s twins. They are conceived in February of 1000 NE, putting their arrival in November of that same year. All we know for sure is that one of the twins survives childbirth, although it’s quite possible that both do, since Auntie Nynaeve, World’s Best Healer would probably watch over Elayne like a hawk. If both survive, one of them probably inherits the Cairhienien throne, with the other getting Andor.
Elayne becomes pregnant at age 18 or 19, but she was in a hurry since her lover was fated to die in only a few months. We don’t know when Talana’s mother becomes pregnant, but Talana is mentioned as being middle-aged, which would probably signify that she’s in her 40’s or older, since Morgase, who ages from 40 to 43 over the course of the series, is also considered to be transitioning into middle-age.
This doesn’t quite mesh with the birth year of Elayne’s twins, though. Whether Elayne is connected to Talana through a son or a daughter, that child would have to be very young, bordering on adolescence, in conceiving or impregnating Talana. Neverthless, it’s possible that Elayne has a daughter that has Talana when she is 16, making Talana 40 in Aviendha’s viewing, but it’s also just as likely that Talana is physically the age that Elayne’s daughter would be, if Elayne’s daughter did not inherit the ability to channel. (Unlikely as that seems.)
If Talana is born only 16 years after the Last Battle, and Elayne is gone, then that leaves open the question of the fate of Talana’s parents. It’s possible that Talana was born to Elayne’s son, but also possible that Talana was born to Elayne’s daughter, but that Elayne’s daughter did not survive childbirth, necessitating Talana’s accession to the throne.
The apparent age of Elayne’s offspring would fit much more comfortably if we added ten years to Aviendha’s viewing. However, this iteration clearly states that it is 40 years ahead of the iteration before it. And the timespan fits quite well with the apparent age of Oncala. Since both she and her mother have been spending their lives fighting the Seanchan, that probably means Padra delayed having children until her late 20s or early 30s, putting Oncala’s age in the viewing in roughly the same range. Elayne’s progeny raises a ton of questions, but the answer to all of those is probably: tragedy.
Years After The Last Battle: 57 (1057 NE)
Third Iteration
What Happens: The Seanchan took Andor’s entry into the Aiel’s war as the breaking of the Dragon’s Peace and promptly returned to collaring channelers, both wetlander and Aiel. In the war that followed, all of Aviendha and Rand’s four lines of progeny were killed off with the exception of Ladalin, a Wise One of the Taardad Aiel, who is the woman that Aviendha has her viewing through. Ladalin is quite old and cannot channel (hence her survival), and through her recollection we learn how the Seanchan have progressed during the war. In this viewing, Ladalin learns that the White Tower, the last bastion of open resistance, has fallen to Seanchan forces.
Important Revelations: Andor fell to the Seanchan twenty years before this viewing, as did Cairhien, Illian, and the Black Tower. In Ladalin’s recollection, the Aiel have been retreating for “decades.” She recalls growing up as a child in Almoth Plain, but then being forced gradually down to Tear, and finally into the Spine of the World. The older amongst the Aiel still recall the blood of the Dragon and the Car’a’carn. It should be noted at this point that this branch of Aviendha’s progeny, from Ladalin onward, cannot channel the One Power.
From her physical condition, we get the impression that Ladalin is in her mid-40s to mid-60s. Since she remembers living in Almoth Plain as Andor entered the war, her mother is most likely Oncala. It’s possible that there is another generation between Oncala and Ladalin, which would add 15 to 30 years to the events in Ladalin’s recollection, but this strains credibility, since the Seanchan really ramp up their aggression after Andor enters the war, capturing Rhuidean, most of the Wise Ones, and leaving the Aiel stalled as a culture, meaning that the Seanchan would probably be farther along in their invasion. This leaves us with a range of 50 to 90 years after Oncala’s iteration, or a range of 50 to 70 years if we accept that Ladalin is Oncala’s child.
Huh?: There’s actually no confusion in this iteration. Ladalin is very probably as old as she should be, considering the intervening events.
Years After The Last Battle: 100-120 (1100-1120 NE)
Fourth Iteration
What Happens: 14-year-old girl Tava lives in a canyon in the Three-Fold Land, the last and most secret Aiel stronghold left. At least until that night, when the Seanchan sweep in with raken and attack. Tava is nearly killed by one until her father Rowahn rushes in with a sword and kills the Seanchan soldier. Once the battle is over, Rowahn urges the Aiel to rebuild their village but this proves to be the last straw for the Aiel, and the village disbands.
Important Revelations: Rowahn is considered an oddity amongst the Aiel for wearing the veil and clothes of their ancestors, instead of the more modern garb that the rest of the Aiel wear, and referring to them as a clan and referencing ji’e’toh. Tava knows that Rowahn inherited those clothes from his grandfather, who stressed that Rowahn remember the old ways of the Aiel.
The Seanchan are allied with Shara now (called The Far Ones) and have primitive guns.
Rowahn uses a sword, which is no longer forbidden, even though some of the Aiel still consider it to be bad luck.
This is the first confirmed generational skip in Aviendha’s viewings, possibly because Rowahn is male. If this is the case, it would mean that the ter’angreal can only show Aviendha the stories of her female progeny. There is some support for this argument when considering that Rand saw through only male Aiel when he walked through the glass columns in The Shadow Rising.
The narrative mentions that Rowahn inherited his clothing from his grandfather, so Tava is at minimum Ladalin’s great-grandchild, with Rowahn being Ladalin’s grandson. Emotionally, it seems likely that the generation skip probably doesn’t go further than that, as Ladalin’s family would have had the Aiel’s legacy weighing heavily on their minds after the taking of Rhuidean.
Since Ladalin is old when we see her, Rowahn’s father is most likely already born and an Aiel warrior in his 20s. Rowahn himself is probably born shortly before or after Ladalin’s iteration. If Rowahn has Tava when he is in his 20s, then we’re probably 40 years ahead of Ladalin’s iteration.
Interestingly enough, the presence of Seanchan with firearms doesn’t actually tell us much in regards to how much time has passed since The Last Battle, as cannons (introduced at the end of the series) and handheld firearms developed in parallel with each other upon the discovery of gunpowder. The Seanchan probably carried personal firearms earlier than this iteration, actually.
Years After The Last Battle: 140-160 (1140-1160 NE)
Fifth Iteration:
What Happens: Oh god, this iteration… We see through the eyes of Norlesh and learn that the Aiel as a people are now nomadic beggars wandering the Waste. Norlesh and her husband Metalan have had five children but only two are alive in the viewing, a baby named Garlvan and Norlesh’s second youngest, a girl named Meise. Metalan tries to trade rocks of metal ore for food, but the merchants and miners stationed at the Spine of the World won’t trade with Aiel, as the Seanchan forbid it. Metalan and Norlesh’s family leave without food and Garlvan dies quietly of starvation.
Important Revelations: The Seanchan are in complete control of the Randland continent and are now known as the Raven Empire. Higher class Seanchan are known as Illuminated Ones. Technology has proceeded apace, and the Raven Empire utilizes electricity and cars.
Norlesh mentions that Tava is her grandmother, establishing another generational skip.
The Aiel are now living in poverty and are forced to live a nomadic lifestyle in a land that provides little food or water, so their life expectancy should plummet. We can look to present day populations in two of the world’s poorest countries with similar climates, Uganda and the Democratic Republic of Congo, to get an expectation of how long Aiel would live in this kind of environment. Life expectancy in these countries is 59 years of age, but only if you manage to live past 40.
In general, poverty also increases birth rates, as we see evidenced by the fact that Norlesh has had 5 children. Present-day Uganda is also a good parallel when considering Norlesh’s birth rate:
A typical Ugandan woman gives birth to seven children—an extraordinarily high fertility rate that has remained largely unchanged for more than 30 years. Half the population is under 15, and will soon move into childbearing age. Only one in five married women has access to contraception.
From this we can determine that Norlesh is probably 21 to 30 years old, and likely on the younger end of that range. Norlesh’s sole surviving child, Meise, was probably born when Norlesh was 20, and since Norlesh’s mother and Tava were in a similar situations, let’s assume that they all had their children at the age of 20, as well. Tava would have had her offspring 5 to 6 years after her iteration, and her offspring would have had Norlesh 20 years after that. Add another 20 for Norlesh’s age when she had Meise, and another 5 years for Meise’s assumed age during the time of the viewing. This gives us a 50 year jump from Tava’s iteration.
Years After The Last Battle: 190-210 (1190-1210 NE)
Sixth (And Final) Iteration
What Happens: The 18 year old Malidra sneaks into an Illuminated Ones camp at the foot of the mountains of the Spine of the World, looking for food in their trash pile or something else valuable. The Aiel are just a name now, not a people with grand traditions and culture. Malidra is shot by a guard while sneaking into the camp and thus ends Aviendha and Rand’s lineage.
Important Revelations: Malidra continues the cycle of poverty we learned of in Norlesh’s iteration. She is the last of four sisters, is constantly starving and scavenging, and has little to no education. She doesn’t believe that there is any land beyond the Spine of the World, and knows the Raven Empire as “Lightmakers” due to their usage of electric lights.
The Seanchan are building a transcontinental railroad between Randland and Shara. They also have the ability to make Malidra “vanish with a stare,” which suggests that damane are still in use.
Malidra also refers to her people as “the Folk,” although the Seanchan guard refers to her as a “bloody Aiel.”
Norlesh is probably Malidra’s grandmother, since Meise had no sisters and Norlesh most likely did not live long enough to have three more daughters. That makes Meise the mother of Malidra. If we assume the same average birth rates and life expectancy established in Norlesh’s iteration, then Meise has Malidra 15 years after we see her in Norlesh’s viewing. With Malidra’s stated 18 years of age, that puts us 33 to 40 years ahead of Norlesh’s iteration. Let’s call it a straightforward 35 years.
Years After The Last Battle: 225-245 (1225-1245 NE)
In Summary
Gods, recounting all of that is depressing. I now have a newfound appreciation for the reverse chronological order in which these scenes were presented in Towers of Midnight.
All in all, the reader moves through eleven generations of over a span of around 250 years.
Lineage:
- Aviendha + Rand
- Alarch
- Janduin
- Marinna
- Padra
- Oncala (from Padra)
- Ladalin
- [unnamed]
- Rowahn
- Tava
- [unnamed]
- Norlesh (+ Metalan)
- Meise (+ Garlvan)
- Malidra
- Meise (+ Garlvan)
- Norlesh (+ Metalan)
- [unnamed]
- Tava
- Rowahn
- [unnamed]
- Ladalin
- Oncala (from Padra)
That many generations should actually take more than 300 years to play out, on average, but the Aiel’s dissolution shortens that considerably in the second half of Aviendha and Rand’s lineage.
It’s possible that there are generations we skip past entirely, and that the final iteration is 300 years, or more, after The Last Battle, but I doubt the ter’angreal shows Aviendha more than 300 years. The presence of the railroad 300 years-ish after the Last Battle actually tracks really well with the state of information and technology as it stands after A Memory of Light. Randland carries technology and techniques that are roughly equivalent to the 15th and 16th centuries, so it makes sense in comparison with our own history that the Raven Empire wouldn’t develop a continent-spanning railroad until 300 years later. In addition, extending Aviendha’s lineage further than 300 years, to 400 years, would lead to a startling change in the world we see. Humanity had television and tanks and atomic bombs 100 years after the railroad, and there’s certainly nothing of that nature in Malidra’s iteration.
A facet of the Wheel of Time that I kept coming back to while mapping Aviendha’s journey out was the absence of major channelers in her visions. We are eventually given an explanation, in Ladalin’s iteration, as to how channelers are being winnowed, but considering that so many of the Wheel of Time’s major characters are channelers, did all of them get taken down or captured by Seanchan? Aviendha’s ter’angreal future is ominous in regards to Elayne’s fate, and it never states what happens to Aviendha herself. Since Avi is strong in the One Power and not bound by the Oath Road, she could enjoy quite a few centuries of life before succumbing to old age. Which is more than enough time to help her descendants out in the Waste.
Since war comes to both their peoples, it’s easy to assume that both Avi and Elayne are killed or collared. Considering Rand’s new god-powers at the end of the series, he could probably end the Seanchan war at a stroke, but it seems unlikely that he ever becomes a major player on the world stage again. Not including the Aiel in the Peace is what leads to the future Aviendha sees, and that seems to have have lots of ripple effects, as well. Perhaps an Aiel kills a Seanchan warrior in a minor fracas, a warrior that would have otherwise been in the right place and right time to prevent Tuon’s assassination, which Mat possibly falls victim to, as well. Since the Seanchan war more or less concludes with the White Tower going down, we know for sure that characters like Moiraine and Nynaeve eventually get killed or collared. Perrin and Faile’s nations stand closer than anyone else’s to Seanchan territory, as well, so they probably don’t last long.
This is the point I had missed until rereading the section for this article: That excluding the Aiel from the Dragon’s Peace spells doom for more than just Aviendha’s future family and the Aiel people. It spells doom for everyone and everything that we love about The Wheel of Time. Our favorite characters and all of their accomplishments, Rand’s steam-powered car excepted, are ruthlessly eliminated in less than 300 years.
Thankfully, that future will not come to pass.
The Path of Daggers ebook cover art by Julie Bell
Watch for more Wheel of Time Companion and Spin the Wheel coverage through this tag.
Chris Lough writes a lot for Tor.com, is on Twitter, and would actually kind of love his own trip through a way-forward ter’angreal.
The first two iterations seem really hinky to me. With the exception of Tuon, who’s explicitly dead, all of our main characters should still be alive. Yet they’re only mentioned for their children. It makes me suspect that the vision didn’t show the most likely consequences of leaving the Aiel out of the Dragon’s Peace but rather the worst possible outcome.
Sheesh, it really is depressing when you lay it out this way…
These visions were hard to read the first time and are still depressing to read here… It is so hard to watch the Aiel (a culture we all love for the most part) become this lost society. Hopefully, by sharing the visions with the other wise ones and changing the future just slightly a better future will be achieved. Still by the time the wheel gets around to our age again there are no channelers, so I guess this is one way to get rid of them over time. I agree with the first few posters that the most disappointing thing is no closure for the major characters… what happened to Elayne, Avi and Mat etc. in that first generation?!?!?
The missing piece to me is actually Rand. He is alive and can channel at least the fist thirty or so years, even if like his adopted father chooses a humble life after traveling he would still eventually become a force of nature. And the girls nowing he is alive no longer interact with him. I think this future was a warning but not a good one. There are still huge holes. Especially about the Seachen.
Thanks for this…I never read it through this way or even thought much about the timing.
I’ve never understood how the Seanchan could pose such a threat to other channelers. As Egwene showed at the Tower, the ability to form a circle, even with novices, makes you so much more powerful than a lone damane. And we know that damane cannot join a circle since they are already in a circle of two with the suldam. Since there are Wise Ones, and Ashaman, and Kin who know how to make a circle, they should have been able to wipe out the Seanchan. Once the threat was apparent, only 6 men would be required for a full circle of 72 for the Aiel, Kin, or Aes Sedai. That circle would be able to destroy the entire Empire. What am I missing?
Without the Aiel to enforce the Dragon’s Peace, there isn’t much reason for the nations of Randland to do much, if anything, to work together. To the contrary, while they may respect Rand for the sacrifice he made, they are all infected with Daes Dae’mar and will likely be politicking against each other like crazy. A powerful external threat isn’t always enough to create unity in such cases. Compare WWII and the ease with which Germany took over half of Europe, and compound that with the lasting distrust that the Aes Sedai, and everyone else, has for the Asha’man, and it becomes very plausible that what unity comes to Randland is too little, too late.
I thought Aviendha actively worked against this towards the end of AMOL. I can’t remember if she succeeded though. This was her whole mission at the end of the books is to make this future not happen after she sees this.
In this alternate future, I cannot imagine the Seanchan and the Sharans forming an alliance. In the “flash forward” where the building of a transcontinental railroad, does it state that the the Seanchans (aka the Raven Empire) alligned with Shara? Could they have conquered Shara?
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
jcmnyu @6 – Best guess, the Seanchan knew a LOT more about what they’d be facing this time, and made use of that. Disguise and treachery would be the first order of business, whether by means of assassins, slipping someone in to forkroot the water supply, whatever… After the Last Battle, it’s probably become much more common for the Aes Sedai to go out and about in the world, which would have two effects: Since they’re relying on the Dragon’s Peace, it’s entirely possible that a large number would have been snatched and collared before they knew anything had changed, and they could have been used against the White Tower. Also, the Tower would be occupied by far few experienced Aes Sedai; it would be a much higher proportion of novices and Accepted.
That doesn’t entirely address the question of why, with presumably far more channellers being trained after the Last Battle, plus Aes Sedai who learned a whole lot about fighting in a big hurry, they couldn’t fight back better anyway. But it’s a start on some possible reasons it could work. And of course, there’s always the politicking to distract them.
It’s also quite possible that the Seanchan have spent the intervening years figuring out how to link damane, despite – or even by way of – the a’dam. What would happen if you chained a series of damane? Because if you could figure out how to enlarge the circle so that there was one sul’dam with a forced circle of, say 12 damane… that would be pretty powerful. And if the Black and White Towers were still not working with each other very well, the White Tower wouldn’t have anything more powerful than that sul’dam. Once you’ve leashed the White Tower and taken all their ‘angreals, you hit the Black Tower with multiple circles.
Yeah, none of it is entirely satisfactory, but there are places to go with it. And like noblehunter suggested @1, it seems reasonable to suspect that perhaps the WayForward showed her the worst possible outcome, not necessarily the most probable one. That’s the best I’ve got.
Frankly the Seanchan uber competence stank of wank. It was most definitely a worst case scenario, since it portrayed the Seanchan going from strength to strength. A near impossibility realistically. Ultimately, the Seanchan is just one major power among many, and one no longer possessing the ability to summon reinforcements from their home continent. Yes, gateways are still possible, but the home continent has dissolved into anarchy. Realistically, the Seanchan can either go to war against the Westlands, or try to regain control of their home continent but not both. The Consolidation took 800 yrs. Far longer than the timeframe presented in either the way back or the way forward.
So I find it highly unlikely that they would be able to roll over the Borderlanders, the major powers of Andor, Cairhien, Illian and Tear, and both the Black and White Towers. Recall that the major conflict flared up within 60 yrs of the Last Battle. A lot of the lessons learned from there should have percolated through the various nations. Also, the Aiel-Seanchan war had already been ongoing for 40 years at that point. None of the major powers should have stood idly by. Even with the Dragon’s Peace, most should have built up their strength as a contingency in case the war should expand. By they time they enter, the Seanchan should have been fighting for 40 years without pause, in the Three Fold Land. Where the resources gained from winning would be next to negligible.
Wetlandernw @10 – That’s a lot of ifs, possibles, and probablys. :)
I think I’ll go with “worst possible outcome”, but I have to tell you, that isn’t how I took it when I read it. I took it as, this is how things work out with the world as it was at the moment Avi entered the ter’angreal. Then, any changes that resulted from her knowledge could have ripples. But it was more than a slim possibility. It was, “as of now, this is how things will go.”
@12 Which causes so many other problems down the line. I suppose that is why the Jenn Aiel made sure nobody ever went through twice
Nice analysis, Chris, thanks for taking the time to do it!! This scenario was a potentially disastrous outcome to WoT that was, thankfully, averted. So, although it was painful for me to read through it again, I’m happy that events didn’t play out as described.
Again I’m reminded of the staggering task Brandon accepted when he agreed to finish WoT. Props to him for doing as well as he did!
Let’s also not forget that there was a specific taboo against using this ter’angreal to see into the future.
If Aviendha’s vision was an accurate depiction of the future, that would make the ter’angreal extraordinarily useful. However, its use as an oracle wasn’t forgotten. It was forbidden.
That implies that at some point in that past some Aes Sedai or Wise One had a good reason to forbid its use. Also, recall that, in this world, earlier generations are far more knowledgeable regarding matters of magic than the series’ contemporary characters. To me, this means that Aviendha’s was no simple vision wasn’t the future.
Considering that the closest analog to the Rhuidean ter’angreal” is the set of Arches that all Accepted must pass through (and willingly leave again) to become to Aes Sedai, I think it’s very plausible that what Aviendha saw was a fantasy created by her own worst fears, or, given that the ter’angreal’s visions of the past are tied to the racial history of the Aiel, maybe the worst fears of her collective people.
I’d read Towers of Midnight so fast that I never gave this a lot of thought. I’d just assumed that we see random generations (except for the immediate one).
Btw, I think that’s Elayne on the PoD cover. Aviendha is the one in green, on the left.
The disappearance of Aviendha and Elayne are quite easy to explain:
They left the political and “narrative” spotlight to go join Rand in obscurity. After Elayne sees her daughter trained up properly in ruling, she abdicates from the throne of Andor/Cairhien and goes off into the wild-blue to join her husband.
Does it sound like her? Maybe not, we all know Elayne is a bit of a fiery personality, but after The Last Battle it could be very easy to see her “being done” with all the drama and politics and such. Avi too.
Not at all. The book states they have dark hair, like their father (the biggest hint in all books toward the Rand / Moridin swap), so they were conceived after the Last Battle.
There’s truth in it, since Aviendha was given knowledge of things she could not know (i.e., the Dragon Peace). It’s not (at least completely) fabricated. I’m guessing it was the future if Aviendha had not acted to change it based on the knowledge she received.
@18 I like the idea of Mordin-dad. It gives an explanation as to why Avi’s children can channel right out of the womb but El’s can’t.
OK. I have a new entry for the spin the wheel encyclopedia. The “way forward ter’angreal.”
jcmnyu @12 – Of course it’s all “ifs, possibles, and probablys” – that’s all any speculation can possibly be. I just acknowledge it more overtly than most. I do think it’s likely that the Seanchan attempted to find a way to expand circles; whether or not that would be possible, I don’t know, because we’re never told. But if Deaine could invent the a’dam in the first place, why couldn’t someone else build on that to create a multi-a’dam that could give one sul’dam the ability to control several damane? We’re not told in Aviendha’s vision that they did, but we’re not told that they didn’t, either. So it’s a possibility. And obviously, given history by the time frame within the vision, they’d know a lot more about what they could be facing with the WT and would not repeat their past mistakes.
I can suggest possibilities, but no one will ever know for sure. Maybe, if we’re lucky, the Companion will tell us whether Aviendha’s vision was a certainty or only a worst-possible-scenario if no changes were made. Otherwise, we’re stuck with “a lot of ifs, possibles, and probablys.”
I like to think of the future as an inevitable doom of which only minor details–character names, exact years, etc. can change.
There are seven ages to the world and there are no channelers at all in at least a few of them.
Rand and co. saved the world so it could keep on a turnin’ he in know way solved all its problems.
Some food for thought on the protracted war of attrition the Seanchan waged against Randland after recently finishing my third reread of AMoL.
1) Knotai formally known as Cauthon was seriously impressed by the Seanchan military machine. Particularly their discipline, airpower, logistics, and force on force battle tactics. That’s saying something with all of those general’s thoughts bouncing around in his noggin.
2) The Seanchan were only involved in the first half of the Last Battle and the final push against a demoralized enemy. It may not be safe to infer that their casualties were significantly less than the other participating nations, but I wouldn’t be surprised if their military machine came away in way better shape than everyone else. Their consolidated lands certainly did.
3) As Aviendha found out in Shayol Ghul, fighting in a circle is not always a the best solution.
4) The Tower lost Vora’s Sa’Angreal, which was arguably the key to saving the Tower from the first Seanchan attack and definitely saved the remaining Aes Sedai when Egwene OD’ed on the OP in her kamehameha showdown with Taim (still one of the stranger OP moments that BWS conceptualized). When Logain tried to retrieve Sakarnen from the same crystalized patch it seriously messed with the local terrain and I would guess that his next step of balefire would not have worked (I’m basing this off of the similar appearance of the patch to Callandor’s appearance and Rand being able to split True Power balefire with it).
Thats Aviendha using the Mask of Mirrors……..
I really disliked those flash-forward sections and feel that narratively speaking, they were a huge mistake. Well-written, sure, but they totally sucked the tension and drama away from Rand’s upcoming showdown. Yes, it was mentioned later that this future wasn’t definite, but by that point the damage was done. It really changed my outlook on the final book from “whether” Rand would win to “how” Rand would win. Yes, most of us know that the good guys will win in fantasy, but to patently confirm it was just a bad idea.
I assumed that the visions are basically the worst possible outcome, not necessarily the most likely one. The ominous absence of main characters in the first two (chronologically) seem, to me, to suggest that the last battle went worse for the Light than it actually does. In particular, Elayne dying during the Last Battle would explain a lot (perhaps her twins are saved via channeling, or maybe in this reality the last battle starts a couple months later/lasts a couple months longer).
@henrique,
you are wrong about aviendha’s children,brandon sanderson already
confirmed that aviendha got pregnant during her night together with
rand prior to the field of merrilor meeting,the body swap has nothing
to do with the children.
not to make a bad situation worse, but i always sort of thought that adding the aiel to the peace is what causes the bleak future. when the aiel are left as peace keepers it puts them in a position to oppose the seanchan or at least be the ones that have to keep them in check should anything happen. so once tuon is killed and more aggressive folks take over the stagnating empire it would lead to eventual war with the aiel. the aiel losing the war would lead to them trying to bring in other people to fight with them and the dominoes continue to fall.
also, the 4 decade long war i take as an estimate so i would say that 40 years could have been anywhere from 38 to 47 years probably. if you lean towards the 47 it gives a more realistic expanse of time for baby makin’ and whatnot.
lastly, i do not think there is any way to avoid the horrors that are to come. the wheel keeps on turning and we have to be back in a state that will let all this play out again. the people have to forget who they were and where they came from. peace cannot last forever for the dark one stirs again. just like the people of the two rivers did not believe in aes sedai or trollocs at the begining of the first book, so too do the people living 300 years after the last battle have little to no memory, record or belief in the acts of one past messiah.
Just seems to be a couple of things (or more) missing or could be improved in your analysis.
Why would you say that the quadruplets are 16? Rand and Aviendha’s night happened only a short time beforethe last battle.
Rhuarc seems to have survived. (Ronam states that his father thought Tuon to be honorable, and Rhuarac didn’t really meet Tuon before the Last Battle). (I want to add something to this, but it would be an AMOL spoiler, so I’ve written it on the WoT subreddit instead)
Oncala is probably Padra’s granddaughter, not daughter. So she’s two generations down.Their “greatmothers being first-sisters” alludes to the fact that Padra and Elayne’s daughter are first sisters because their father is Rand.
The Seanchan have been collaring Aiel Wise Ones since the first iteration “…knowing that they have Aiel women captive with those bracelets of theirs?..”
One thing to note is that Seanchan don’t seem to be using male channellers at all. Shouldn’t that be a clear disadvantage?
Rowahn, in the Fourth Iteration, may not be Aviendha’s great-grandon. It may be that Tava is connected to Rand through her mother, not her father.
One thing I do question is whether the disaster foreseen was really averted. Remember in the vision featuring Ladalin (third iteration), we learn that “the real turning point in the war has been the entry of the other nations”. This seems to indicate that all the nations combined (+ the White Tower, + the Black Tower), against the Seanchan, still lost.
So what’s there to guarantee that, after 50 or so years after the Last Battle, the Seanchan don’t instigate a war? It seems to me that the only way to guarantee that future doesn’t happen would have been to either: 1. Annihilate the Seanchan first. 2. Destroy the Sul’dam/Damane power complex 3. Submit to Seanchan rule.
@albenali,
first iteration took place 17 years after the last battle,
aviendha’s children were born approximately 8 months after the last battle,
so the quadruplets are 16 years and four? months old.
To continue with What jack of shadows @@@@@ 27 stated. Besides Brandon confirming the advent of the pregnancy, you have to remember that the children described in the vision were never born. Since Aviendha took steps to change the vision, those particular children are part of a vision THAT DID NOT HAPPEN. Later on in the book when Aviendha is discussing her vision with some of the wise ones, one of them suggests, I don’t recall whom, tells her to change one of her children’s names to change the future she saw.
She still will have 4 children but not the same four. They could all have red hair now as far as we know as we are now in a different future. Heck, they might even have different names. I bet one of the boys might just be named Rhurarc…
Jeff S. I am just an egg
Oh, and another thing that helps my point.
It’s been pretty well established that Min’s visions always come true if she knows what they mean.
When she sees Aviendha at one point, She states that she will have “four children, all at the same time. Something funny about that though…” Min sees both the possible children in the bleak future and the actual children born in the reality that we have now since the Aiel were added to the Dragons Peace. She has the vision before the last battle so there are still many possibilities. After Aviendha helps, there is a better one. Different children to my way of thinking.
albenali @29 – Elayne and Aviendha were first-sisters; they went through the Aiel ritual to become so. That would more logically be what was referenced.
jeff s,
bair was the one who suggested the name change.
I dont mean to critique art, but shouldn’t Aviendha be darker skinned? this is like the artistic representations of Jesus Christ.
I have several issues with the artwork, to be honest. She looks like somebody who got a bad lip plumping injection and a crappy dye job. She also looks incredibly bored.
(Sorry, but this picture annoys me every single time I click on this story to see the new comments).
@35 – I thought the Aiel were fair-skinned by nature, but spent so much time in the sun that they were super-tan. Possibly I just assumed that because of the light hair and eyes, though. Anyway, at this point in the story, Aviendha hasn’t been outside all the time, so maybe she got paler from lack of sunlight? And also she wanted to look more attractive to Rand so she got her hair dyed and her lips plumped, but as a former spear-sister, that wouldn’t really be her area of expertise, so she didn’t get very good dye and lip jobs. There’s no reason there can’t be cosmetic surgery in Randland! Yes, I am a crazy person.
More seriously, I also found it somewhat difficult to believe that the Seanchan somehow overpowered every other nation on the continent, especially since they couldn’t get reinforcements from the Seanchan homeland. And I didn’t really like this sequence in the books; it was too sad, and it didn’t make much sense. Rand doesn’t use his post-Last Battle powers to help the people he loves against the Seanchan? The Black Tower doesn’t tear them apart? The White Tower continues to be useless and incompetent? Even before the Dragon’s Peace, the White and Black Towers were clearly heading towards some degree of cooperation and combined, there’s no way the Seanchan could’ve held up against them.
Also, this made me cry a little bit, because I really liked the Aiel!
I have a theory as to Min’s viewing of something being off with Aviendha’s children. I believe that some of the part of this “something different” was because her children were conceived so close to the Pit of Doom where the fabric of reality was at its most weak. Throughout AMoL, we are told that time diluted greatly at just outside the Pit of Doom. I believe this time dilution somehow affected Aviendha’s children when they were in her womb. It is this affect that Min noticed (but could not pinpoint in her Viewing.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
If the quadruplets are conceived during The Fires of Heaven, in the year 999 somewhere between late summer and early fall, and A Memory of Light takes place in the year 1000 around early summer and the fact that Elayne, who spent the night with Rand in Winter’s Heart after The Fires of Heaven, is obviously showing her pregnancy why wouldn’t Aviendha show any signs? I may have missed something, but I feel like I can safely assume Aviendha was not pregnant at the end of A Memory of Light.
@Pat,
the quadruplets were NOT conceived during the fires of heaven,they were conceived
during the night prior to the field of merrilor meeting(memory of light chapter 3).
aviendha’s children were conceived approximately 6-7 months AFTER elayne’s
twins were conceived.
josepph @@@@@ 28
I thought that because of Rand’s actions he changed the turning of the Wheel and therefore the timeline is completely changed, never to be repeated. ……….. or was that my own hopeful twist on events?
As far as Avi’s visions; thank you Chris Lough, this makes much more sense now. I remember this passage in the book to be especially confusing, mostly because I didn’t want these things to be true.
Chris Lough go far in the analysis but not far enough, I think.
The Last Battle, and the aftermath, should push forward lots of research into those forbidden application of power, providing more toys for Great Game.
The Aiel play as independent world police after the Last Battle. Which mean they heavily curtain the shady activities, notably assassinations.
Now in those visions, they were not. Meaning the Great Game proceed apace in both Randland and Empire. Mat is lucky, but he cant be lucky all the time, and out of thousand attempts just one go through is enough. As leader of the Empire, both Mat and Tuon wont live long beyond that one success in thousand attempts. 10 years, top. Ditto the Red Queen, aka Elayne. Aviendha’issue is tricky, and possibly in related to elayne’s incident. The three girls would have to die from one decade to two decades after the war. Face it, they have enough prestige to unite the world under one banner, and therefore a big obstacle to Great Game local players. That also go for Perrin.
The White Tower inhabitants ( Nyave and Amylins) may survive due to their constant familiarity of power-related trickeries, but isolated in one land is losing influence.
I suspect that the wiping out of channellers and Aiel is an intentional telling of the Wheel of Time. Since to get back to a place where the bore is created, the story of the Dragon Reborn needs to be completely forgotten. Channelling rediscovered. The Aiel recreated and the Ogier need to return to the Universe. The technology that is created needs to reach legendary proportions and the world needs to be at a state of apparent Utopia. Regardless of the outcome of the Aiel being brought into the Dragon’s Peace, I still see this as the logical progression of events.
Seems no future will come to pass.