Two prequels down, one to go. And it was strange, because being a longtime Star Wars fan created different expectations for Episode III—you see, we all knew how it was supposed to end.
Lemme get into that.
In the novelization of Return of the Jedi, ghost Obi-Wan gives Luke a little more information on dear old dad, hoping to convince the kid that there is no part of Anakin Skywalker left under the big black cape. I’ll give you a proper quote block once we get to the reread for Episode VI, but what he said basically boiled down to “We fought over a pit of lava and your father fell in. And when he emerged from that pit, he was no longer the man I knew—he was Darth Vader.” So the real question boiled down to… was Lucas going to stick to the original plan? Would fans get to see that legendary fall out on a big screen?
The answer, surprisingly, was yes. And I say surprisingly because Lucas changed his mind often in the making of these films, as was his prerogative. The fact that he was determined to have this particular moment stand speaks to how essential he felt it was to the Star Wars myth.
Because in the end, this was the prequel chapter that Lucas was always the most certain of, with the previous two films serving as lead-up to the main event. The track released prior to the film was “Battle of the Heroes,” and while it had similarities to “Duel of the Fates” with the choir and ominous tones, it was a laboring, tragic piece of music. Promotional stills and eventually the trailer showed exactly what Lucas had alluded to decades prior—a fight over a landscape of lava, our two heroes locked in combat while the world fell apart around them.
There was one other event that fans were curious about seeing on film: the Jedi Purge. Alluded to in all forms of Star Wars media, this genocide against the Jedi Order was always a part of the Star Wars narrative… but it was never a guarantee that the film would show it. After all, Star Wars films are generally rated PG, and mass slaughter doesn’t really partner with that rating. Once the PG-13 rating was locked in, it suddenly became far more likely. Fans had mixed feelings about this, many concerned that their younger children wouldn’t be able to handle the violence, but it’s hard to dispute Lucas’ call in this particular instance. A tale about the ultimate fall from grace, if Anakin Skywalker doesn’t truly commit any atrocities that the audience can see, his redemption becomes hollow.
But is Revenge of the Sith a good movie? Even in its best moments it never truly reaches the height of the original trilogy, though it’s not for lack of trying. There are just a few too many critical errors that rob Episode III of greatness. I’ll try to parse them out below….

Let’s start off with the second biggest problem in the whole film: General Grievous. Here’s a character we’ve had zero introduction to, who we’re told right off is extremely important. Which is #1 on the How Not to Make A Character list. Fine, he’s a cool-looking robot-being (even if his CGI doesn’t always look as pristine as it needs to), and I understand the impulse to create a sort of proto-Vader (this was Lucas’ stated intention with Grievous) even if there’s no real reason why that enhances Vader’s narrative. The problem is simple—he’s filling the role that Count Dooku should be filling in the film. Whether this was due to Christopher Lee’s desire for limited screen time, or simply a logistical issue, it’s painfully obvious. The sloppy introductions in Episode II mean that we don’t know Dooku well, and we should know him better. Having Obi-Wan go after him to potentially end the Clone War makes narrative sense, both in terms of Dooku’s position as leader of the Seperatists, and in terms of Obi-Wan’s personal character arc. He already has a bone to pick with the guy and there’s the added relevance of Qui-Gon being Dooku’s Padawan. It’s a personal journey that it makes sense for Obi-Wan to take.

Barring that, we end up with a trilogy in which a new villain takes center stage every single movie. It’s so unnecessary, and prevents us from being able to form attachments to any of them. So Dooku dies, and now there’s this guy, who comes off as both lumbering and cowardly, and never does anything remotely intelligent to indicate why he’s in charge of stuff in the first place. (Yet again I’m forced to plug the Clone Wars cartoon, where we get more of both Dooku and Grievous, and finally understand why our heroes are so very keen to bring them down on a personal level.) Obi-Wan kills Grievous quickly once he locates the guy, robbing him of any impact he might have had. With that, his true purpose in the story becomes entirely transparent; he’s an obstacle set in place so that Obi-Wan is out of the way for Anakin’s turn to the dark side. It’s fine for that to be part of Sidious’ machinations, but doing it with a character that has no teeth is a bad decision for the story because it makes Obi-Wan’s part in this tale pointless and boring to boot.
The most important problem is the sidelining and alteration of Padmé’s entire character into a sad, scared pregnant woman who never possesses even a modicum of the power she displayed in the first two films. And this was a bad choice of editing; Lucas had written and shot scenes that showed Padmé, Bail Organa, and a young Mon Mothma working together to germinate what would eventually become the Rebel Alliance, but none of those scenes make it into the film. So Padmé spends the majority of the movie at home, worried about Anakin, brushing vaguely at her perfect curled locks, and sleeping in nightgowns that have pearls at the shoulders because who doesn’t want to wake up in the morning with perfect imprints of wealth and status coded into their arms?

It’s really too bad because this was the place where the romance had to work. And while Portman and Christensen were clearly given leave to loosen up a little, the dialogue does nothing to help their situation. The film also manages not to address one of the most interesting aspects of the Padmé’s pregnancy; the fact that she’s clearly about eight months along by the time Anakin sets foot back on Coruscant. Senator Amidala has been dealing with the majority of her pregnancy alone and unaided, terrified to tell anyone for fear of the scandal it will cause. (Though I wish we had more clarity on why she believes Naboo’s queen will no longer allow her to serve on the Senate once the pregnancy comes to light—is it because she fears that the queen will find out about who the father is, or because she might raise them alone without acknowledging the father publicly, or simply because she’s a woman who decided to have kids alongside her high-pressure job? Because none of those answers seem reasonable; even if the fear is that their relationship will be exposed, the Jedi Order is the one with rules about attachments. It’s not like the Senate has a “don’t date Jedi” rule. If the worry is that public opinion on Amidala will shift as a result of her affair, that needs to be made clear.) What we get instead is Padmé sighing over the heady first days of their romance, when her dear husband professed to her his extreme distaste for sand, and scolded her for forgetting that he was in charge of security here m’lady. Not exactly a riveting arc for the prequel trilogy’s only main female character.
It doesn’t help that she’s busy gasping over Anakin’s alleged murder of Jedi younglings when he admitted to the exact same hobby in the previous film.

While Padmé is left by the wayside, Ian McDiarmid is finally given his time to shine as Palpatine, and he skins those scenes with his teeth. He is genuinely frightening and engaging, but his seduction of Anakin is something that really needed to be present in the previous films. We needed more indication of Palpatine’s guiding hand throughout Anakin’s life, something that we are told is true rather than shown. His offer to teach Anakin how to keep his loved ones alive via the Force could have easily been slipped into the previous film when Anakin was having nightmares about his mother. Doing that would have made Anakin’s fall feel more gradual; he’s had time to ruminate on all the ideas and offers that Palpatine has been filling his head with for years, and finally comes to a breaking point when Padmé’s life is in danger. Instead, it seems that Anakin just panics and immediately swaps teams due to one sad dream where Padmé cries and asks for help. He’s meant to be a hero of the Republic, a genuine one despite his many flaws—it shouldn’t look so easy to quash years of resolve and Jedi training.
(And again. Clone Wars cartoon. We suddenly get a sea of background that illustrates Anakin’s issues with fear, death, jealousy, and anger, and watch those problems evolve and effect him over time, making his fall something that we can track and appreciate. And he’s likable on top of it, so you feel bad for the guy!)


And it’s too bad because the Jedi Purge is appropriately wrenching cinematically. I remember crying in the theater—many of the random Jedi we see gunned down were given background via the Expanded Universe, so these characters did matter to me. The unstoppable wave of death that encompasses the final act is terribly effective. The moment where that wave finally hits Yoda, and he stumbles in grief, is horrible to watch. It’s worse by the time Obi-Wan knows the truth because Ewan McGregor is finally playing the character with the sort of dimension that he was forced to skip in the previous movie. His banter and more emotional moments with Anakin in the first half of the film are unfortunately doing the work that two more films needed to be doing already, cramming fourteen years of love and friendship into a few scenes of footage. Which is too bad, because the rescue they bring off at the start of the film shows us glimpses of what the prequels could have been all the way through. (See: Clone Wars cartoon. I’m just gonna keep tacking it on until it becomes a subliminal message.)
By the time we get to the final duel, the audience is revved and ready for it… and then has to suffer through the intercut Sidious-Yoda fight. Which is a fight that, for the record, should have never contained lightsabers. It’s hard enough to believe that Palpatine is an agile duelist in the first place, but how much more relevant would that face-off have felt if it were about Yoda and Palpatine showcasing their raw connection to the Force? More lightning, more push and pull, less crashing Senate platforms and jumping about. Because this fight is not truly a parallel to Obi-Wan and Anakin’s; it’s about something completely different. Yoda is fighting for the right of the Jedi to survive, while Anakin’s battle with Obi-Wan is utterly personal in every way. It’s the death of their partnership, their friendship, their fealty to each other. The duel itself is beautifully choreographed, and works well in conversation with the previous duels of the prequels. As though everything has been leading up to this, a one-on-one blitz of motion and pain, where the lightsabers themselves seem to barely matter at all. It’s just too bad that the fight is overlong by about two sections, and is burdened by dry dialogue that does nothing to communicate the emotional turmoil we are seeing on screen.


It’s not as though George Lucas didn’t know what story he meant to tell; according to Hayden Christensen, one of the most important directions he got from Lucas during Revenge of the Sith was “You haven’t truly fallen to the dark side until you’re able to look up at your best friend and tell him that you hate him.” That’s some shrewd characterization, and an acknowledgement that Anakin is conflicted about his path through practically the entire film. But instead of showing us that breakdown, we’re treated to a strange moralizing speech from Obi-Wan about how Anakin was supposed to do Prophecy stuff. Leave it off, dude. Just tell him that you loved him… and leave. It’s a far more effecting move.

And then the movie ends on a weird downturn, where we’re supposed to buy that Padmé just gives up on life after having her babies because sadness, and then we are subjected to the joy of James Earl Jones’ voice only to have the moment ripped away when he’s forced to shout “NOOOOOOOOOOOO” into a strange void forever. And it’s horrible because what Palpatine is doing in that moment is important, it informs Vader’s entire arc going forward, and we just tune out because it’s too awkward to watch. (Fans have also had to do quite a bit of mental gymnastics to get around the “give up on life” bit, and this is by far the best theory to that effect.) It’s great to see the twins off to their respective homes—we get to see Alderaan for the first time!—but it’s hard to shake off all those unsatisfying threads.
There are many excellent moments in Revenge of the Sith, but at the end of an entire trilogy, it simply had too much ground to make up for. If anything, it’s a lesson in planning, proving that you can’t end-load a tale with so much emotional weight tacked onto it. And yet, for all that, it’s so important that it exists at all. That we were given a glimpse of this faraway galaxy’s history, it’s opening saga.

Don’t worry, my friends. The Episode III novelization will soothe every hurt and make things right. Bold assertion? Yes. Which makes me very excited to get its reread this week. Stay tuned.
Emmet Asher-Perrin would have gladly watched a whole film of Anakin and Obi-Wan banter before this one. You can bug her on Twitter and Tumblr, and read more of her work here and elsewhere.
I have so, so, so many emotions bound up in this movie. But first:
“What we get instead is Padmé sighing over the heady first days of their romance, when her dear husband professed to her his extreme distaste for sand, and scolded her for forgetting that he was in charge of security here m’lady.” – ahahahaha, this is one of the best things I’ve read all week.
I am also so glad you called out that stupid pearl nightgown.
Also, regarding the ‘everything should be like this’ picture of Anakin and Obi-Wan in the elevator – I am pretty sure that whole sequence in the novelization is hilarious and talks about Anakins’ butt…or something (I remember being highly amused by it but I don’t remember the details). The novelization also had the ‘leave you in pieces’ line, haha. Which is horrible and punny but it’s still darkly funny. Although maybe would have ruined the mood in the movie to see Darth Vader cracking puns after killing the Sepratists.
But…man. I still love this movie (although I have a harder and harder time getting passed child slaughter now (both Jedi and Tusken). Not sure if Vader actually atoned enough for this…my head canon needs to involve some Jedi purgatory.
This movie came out in 2005. That was the year I graduated from college, and also the year (in the fall) I moved to Wisconsin for graduate school. This was a huge deal, as I spent my whole life in Michigan surrounded by a large family and friends. The summer of 2005 was my last summer at home, and my last summer with an established group of friends (like…ever. I haven’t really had a group of friends since). And of course, at the time, this movie was the END of Star Wars movies. So it was all tied up with the end of my life as I knew it. The premiere was one of the best times of my life – I had a big Star Wars marathon party with my friends and little sister (she was 7 or 8 I think). We got dressed up and went to a midnight showing. We ended up meeting some other fans there, hung out at a Denny’s (hah, my mom came bursting in at 2 am wondering where on earth we were, thinking we had been attacked by nerd haters) and in fact, one of those guys ended up marrying one of my friends! So that movie represents a LOT to me, about a really special time in my life.
And of course the movie it self is pretty good – I can certainly see what you are saying about Greivous being an extra, hanging thread that doesn’t really need to be there (although the FIRST set of Clone Wars cartoons, whicH I actually prefer although they are no longer canon, actually introduced him). But at the time I didn’t really care. I remember having a lump in my throat for most of the last part of the movie and then pretty much bursting into tears when we saw Aldaraan and heard the strains of Leia’s theme. And then of course we got that amazing ending shot of the binary sunset and…I was a goner. Man, I actually have a little lump in my throat just thinking about it. I cried through the whole end credits.
Which leads me to the soundtrack – oh man it is amazing. By the time it was released, I had moved to Wisconsin. I did not have an easy transition there (grad school sucks, for one thing). I remember I had put the CD on and was working on something and then all of a sudden I realized I was crying – turns out the CD had hit the Order 66 song and I hadn’t even realized it. The Immolation Theme was another one that would pretty much bring me to tears anytime I listened to it (and I would sometimes use it for that specific purpose when I was depressed/lonely and couldn’t fully process it). And the end credits! There is an amazing concert version of the throne room song and Force theme tacked on the end (which was not part of the movie credits) and it’s probably one of my very favorite pieces of Star Wars music ever – I really love that it ends on this note of hope. Especially as I was going through a very hopeless time in my own life then.
Palpatine was always my favorite villain and I enjoyed him in the prequels and I think he was just absolutely amazing here (with the exception of the very strange guttural speaking he does when Anakin actually ‘becomes’ Vader. I just found that really odd and off putting). The opera scene is one of my very favorite scenes in all of the Star Wars movies as well as the scene where Anakin finally confronts him and manipulates him into abandoning his ideals. (Okay, does anybody else think it’s just a little funny/ironic that Palpatine tells Anakin good is just a point of view, considering Obi-Wan’s proclivities to twist things in such a manner).
Also, yes, I totally agree with you that had Obi-Wan and Anakin had the same chemistry in the previous movies (and they did a little bit in Attack of the Clones, but not enough) it would have been even more touching. I did find the last battle pretty moving, although Obi-Wan fighting ‘for democracy’ seemed a bit heavy handed and perhaps a weird thing to say when fighting your best friend. I also actually did wish there was a little more to Anakin’s ‘well, from my point of view the Jedi are evil’ thing because while we had certainly seen evidence that they were corrupt or had fallen from their ideals…I never got the impression Anakin really felt that way and his conversion was more about his own gain and jealousy/anger at being held back. But then suddenly he’s all on board regarding the Jedi actually wanting to take over, etc.
I agree, the book is amazing
I did find this one to be the most effective of the prequels, because of the palpable sense of inescapable doom that hung over it as it finally led into the situation we knew from the original trilogy. But that essentially means that the main thing that made this movie work for me was my memory of three other movies.
Well, maybe that’s a little unfair. The one compelling thing about the prequels is seeing Palpatine’s master plan unfold. It’s actually pretty scary and effective to see how deftly he manipulates good people with good intentions into giving him the power to take away their freedom. There’s no doubt in my mind that it was meant by Lucas as a commentary on the actions of the Bush-Cheney administration in the wake of 9/11 and a cautionary tale on where the surrender of liberty in the name of security could lead. That lent it an additional resonance beyond the ties to the OT. I respected it that Lucas was finally trying to give Star Wars some substance beyond the popcorn-movie fluff of the OT, although unfortunately his ego ruined it; he forgot that it was his collaborators who made the OT work as well as it did, that he had never been and should never be a sole auteur. His best work came from letting others execute his ideas, and if he’d only had the humility to do that here, the prequels would’ve been far better. Unfortunately, he was a victim of his own success. He’d been master of his own kingdom for so long that nobody was able to say “No” to him or veto his bad ideas.
Thank you for posting that link about Padme’s death. It makes so much sense now.
Yeah, he feeling of a lack of graduality in Anakin’s turn to the dark side basically felt like Palpatine told him “Hey, we’ve got candy in the dark side, come on over!” and he just said “Okay!”.
And yes, Order 66 and the kiddie Jedi slaughter were heavy, very upsetting.
I get into big fights with my other Star Wars loving friends when I argue that Episode III is the most fun of the series to watch. Like, of all 6. It’s got a great blend of goofiness and weightiness and anticipation. I love pretty much every second of it.
And I will always love the Yoda/Sidious fight. It shouldn’t have been spliced into Obi/Ani, but it’s so great. I love that Palapatine’s first instinct is to run. I love that he calls Yoda, “my little green friend.” I love their faces during the fight, alternating between stress and joy and fear. And I love the destruction of the Senate chamber.
Thanks for the “Padme death diagnosis” link, which is pretty brilliant as an in-universe explanation (I won’t spoil it, go read it). What’s really unfortunate, though, along with all the issues with Padme and the cutting room floor, is that there’s an(other) flip-flop on George Lucas’ part here. There was a recently published video interview (sorry, don’t have the link), where GL, speaking shortly after the release of ROTJ, said that Leia’s memories of her biological mother were accurate, and that she had married Bail Organa for political reasons.
Which just makes SO MUCH SENSE to me, because when I first saw Revenge, despite the weakening of Padme’s character and all the scenes I didn’t know were on the cutting room floor, I never once thought she would actually be weakened and gender-essentialized to the point where she dies of a broken heart in childbirth. I was completely prepped for a different tragic ending in which she believes, understandably, that she is a widow and steels herself to marry Bail Organa as a calculated move so that she can influence the resistance from a position of power and relative safety on Alderaan, before dying young–could be disease, could indeed be assassination. Not to say “consents to loveless marriage with powerful guy who is firmly in the friendzone” isn’t a highly gendered story arc ending. . .but at least it’s a more interesting and less predictable one, gives Padme a clear arc from conflict between passion and ideology to definitely rejecting romantic love in favor of ideology, and doesn’t leave Leia hanging with a weird incomprehensible line where she either mistakes the Queen of Alderaan for her biological mother (also tragic but really out of context in that scene) or has some kind of increased ability to sense personal connections through the Force compared with Luke (uh, THAT’S not boringly gender-essentialist at all, not to mention it kinda calls into question why she would kiss her brother. . .)
Lucas should have stuck to his OWN original idea for once. But yes, the explanation behind the link totally allows me to make peace with what’s on screen, especially since I flatly refuse to de-canonize Darth Plageuis in my headcanon.
Emily, thank you for this read/watch of the prequels. Before this, I had never considered reading the novelizations of these movies and the Clone Wars series has been on my back burner for a long time. Because of what everyone on here has been saying, I am finally watching it and you are right, it is great. I’m kind of kicking myself for not watching it earlier. Also, the novelizations of the prequels are now on my reading list. Again, thank you.
@3, I agree 100% about Palpatine. The prequels are worth it just to watch him manipulate everyone to bring himself to power. Dude is awesome.
On a personal note, I took my girlfriend of three months to see this on opening night at midnight in Brookfield, WI. Been married now for 9+ years and she flat out refuses to go see Episode VII with me. You can’t win em all.
I hate this movie. It’s better than the other two prequels (not hard), but I dislike it the most of the three. The only question the prequels needed to answer was why did Anakin turn to the Dark Side, and this movie botched it. The others are excruciating but ultimately unimportant. This one was vital to get right. They didn’t.
@6 – Cuxist: You like one of the prequels better than the OT? That’s okay, I respect your opi–NOT!!! :)
http://nojetpack.thecomicstrip.org/comics/93/
I really hated the assault on Grievous’ flagship; mostly because of the Artoo/battle droid slapstick down in the hangar bay. But that initial space battle was all kinds of awesome. And the movie as a whole was visually stunning; I loved seeing more of Coruscant, and seeing all of those other worlds.
(Also, it was actually Bail Organa who ordered 3PO’s memory wiped; and I think he left Artoo alone, which means that, at least in theory, Artoo knows everything.)
My preferred headcanon on Padme is that she was dead on Mustafar, but that Obi-Wan resurrected her with the same technique Sidious talks about learning from Plageius. Makes the story that much more tragic, because the answer Anakin was looking for was right in front of him the entire time.
This came out while I was between jobs, and was so broke ass I couldn’t afford to see it in theaters. So the ONLY thing I had to hold me over until I could see it at home, was the behind the scenes featurette of McGregor and Christiansen prepping for that final fight that was included with the Special Edition DVDs.
I really love this movie, because there is so much tragedy. The brotherhood between Obi-Wan and Anakin is much more realized than the prior films. Anakin’s estrangement from the Jedi was well done, showing that the Jedi had no cause for their unreasoning fear of him, and that unreasoning fear is what led directly to their downfall at Anakin’s hands. Windu’s mistrust of Anakin, preventing him from going on the mission that HIS intelligence facilitated, is what causes Windu to lose that fight. And the petty power plays over making Anakin a Master played right into Palpatine’s hands. So many small moments where things could have been averted. THAT is how you tell a tragedy of this magnitude.
Plus, Pure Unadulterated Artoo Badassery
@11, Yeah, after this one came out the EU books finally used Artoo’s unwiped memory to expose the truth to Luke and Leia about their mother. But only after Artoo malfunctions because he’s been putting those memories behind some insane memory blocks in an attempt to prevent Luke from ever finding out the truth, because of course he did.
My headcanon is that Palpatine was using Padme’s life force to keep Anakin alive until the Vader suite could be completely installed.
I didn’t get to see this on opening night. The only one of the three prequels I didn’t get to see on opening night. I also saw the Special Editions on opening night when they came out in 1997. I finally saw this movie with my wedding party after the rehearsal dinner, with everyone but my wife to be and her mom. I felt bad! Even her Bridesmaids came out with us!
I found this movie satisfying in the theaters. I’ve seen it twice since, including about three months ago. Its riddled with holes, unfortunately. Grevious is just… he’s as stupid and annoying as Jar Jar. Even in the Clone Wars cartoon. Once again, because of my Star Wars Insider subscription, I got all the background on him and the Separatists before the movie came out through the HoloNews articles they published. All of that, and the novelization, was significantly more interesting than this movie. There was plenty of pathos in the Obi-wan/Anakin fight scene, as long as no one was talking. This is another move that works better just listening to the soundtrack and watching the footage.
I am much in agreement with you concerning this post, say for the Yoda and Palpatine duel. I remember my eleven-year-old self tearing up as I watched the two battling each other as the Chancellor’s chair rose up amongst the thousands of Senator pods. Yoda’s goal was to kill the Emperor in a bid to destroy the newly-founded Empire. It was not only a battle between the Light and Dark sides of the Force, but a battle for the fate of the entire galaxy. In that, George Lucas succeeded extremely well.
I disagree that not making Anakin a master are petty power plays. He was never ready, never displayed enough maturity.
I think Jude Watson’s Jedi Quest Series also does well to showcase the palpatine/Anakin relationship. She takes that one line of dialogue from episode 1 (when palpatine says he will watch Anakin’s career with great interest) and makes that a reality. A teenage Anakin (16 i think) starts spending time with palpatine but in a realistic way. I think he and Obi-wan were assigned guard detail for one book.
Anyway, that whole series also brings about Anakin’s eventual fall to the dark side in a much better way. The series ends when he is 18 but the seeds are all there and watching the movies after that make it better. She even included that nest of gundarks that Obi-wan and anakin talk about in episode 2
The Stover novelization really is amazing how good it is, and how much of all 3 prequels it fixes in one go.
Two points I think this review glossed over
– the problems with the Dooku duel. This is the parallel of Luke vs Vader in RotJ, it should have been this amazing emotional impact. It is Anakin electing to kill not in defense, not in emotional distress, but a cold blooded execution because otherwise arresting Dooku would be too much hassle. While he later pledges himself to the Sith Order, that right there is when he gives into the dark side, forever to dominate his destiny. That scene should matter, it should be the cathartic payoff of the hero triumphing followed by the cold horror of casual murder. Instead it is deflated, partly by the Tusken scene of the previous film (where as stands he murders out of rage; really that part needs a massive rewrite), and partly because this scene has no payoff or tension. With no previous buildup to Dooku there isn’t the resonance of the struggle Luke had with Vader, and the scene itself isn’t ratcheting up the cost. In Jedi the longer Luke resisted fighting, or the longer the fight went on, the more his friends died. It was incentive to give into the dark and do it quickly, to destroy Vader and the Emperor, and fall for the right reasons. Here, the longer the fight goes…. so what? I guess it is supposed to be that the Invisible Hand is being destroyed, but that is played for buffoonery rather than as a threat. The scene could almost work as the hero of the light walking in, casual as can be, saving the day and then killing because he can’t be bothered, but again, lack of build up.
Really, this part needed to land, and it just didn’t.
– Padme’s death. The scene cuts between Anakin and Padme, that he is draining her life to sustain his own; that it is his feeling of being cut off from all love that leads to him taking an active part in encasing himself in the armor and becoming Vader (so that Luke’s sustained love can break through, redeem him, and cap in the removal of the armor) is a good idea, but very poorly conveyed. It flies right past most viewers. It really needed to be more explicit.
@11/hoopmanjh: What I hate about the opening battle is the way it assumes there’s a fixed up and down in space, and that when the ship changes orientation, some force of gravity external to the ship causes everyone to fall sideways. I mean, I know this is space fantasy and has never been intended as science fiction, but that was just stupid. Especially since it contradicts prior canon. When the Falcon remora’ed itself on the back of the Star Destroyer’s conning tower in Empire, the occupants didn’t all fall to the back of the ship, but retained their own internal gravity vector perpendicular to that aboard the Destroyer. So the way it was done here contradicted the movies’ internal rules as well as realistic phyics. It’s okay for a fantasy story to operate under different rules from reality, but they need to be consistent or the integrity of the story is damaged.
Then again, I have seen other SW productions that seemed to assume there’s a universal up and down in space. For instance, a Rebels episode or two in which an Imperial ship in space is crippled, starts to angle “downward” in its course, and trails smoke rising “upward” behind it (which would require not only gravity in space, but air and convection in space).
Oh, I love the Padme death theory as well. I can understand that the broken heart symbolism is in some ways meant to show Padme dying along with democracy, but it sells her short as a character.
I never had a huge problem with Leia remembering her mother…I figured it was some kind of Force memory/impression. After all, Leia does say ‘she’s always known’ regarding Luke being her brother, so perhaps that’s just one of the ways her gift manifested itself. It’s a bit hand wavey but I can live with it.
@19/ChristopherLBennett — Yeah, physics is hard. Maybe the ship’s internal artificial gravity was malfunctioning?
I also have mixed feelings about the Clone Wars TV series, although I’ve only seen the first 3 seasons so far. On the one hand, yes, it does provide a lot more background for characters like Dooku and Grievous, and a broader context for the events of the war at large; but on the other hand, it’s a cartoon aimed at a younger audience, which puts some constraints on the storytelling, and after a while it starts to get a little implausible that Anakin and Obi-Wan and Grievous and Dooku could’ve kept running into each other over and over and over again like that.
The only thing I got from this movie is that Darth Vader was a whiny kid who never got over his mommy issues, being manipulated by a villain with the subtlety of a sledge hammer, and that Padme died because of [cough]bullshit[/cough]. The fan theory on Padme is interesting, I don’t think Lucas was ever that subtle or clever. The man who had Jar-Jar walk in poop and R2 spraying oil at slapstick roger-roger robots because “it’s a kids movie” would not have hidden Vader or Palpatine’s Force-vampirism so carefully. And what was with the silly putty on Palpatine’s face? He looked like a 1970s Dr. Who monster.
I actually felt a little flat when I saw this in the theaters the first time, and I’m not sure how much of it is because I didn’t really see this one with the same core group of Star Wars fans. But part of it was probably because I had kind of spoiled myself before the film. I mean, I would say I was definitely really excited to see this one from the trailers and stuff. But I had committed myself to remaining mostly spoiler-free for this one after reading on theForce.net that Grievous kills Shaak Ti with her own lightsaber. But then before the movie came out I pre-ordered the episode III visual dictionary, and possibly the “making of” book. I know that with the visual dictionary, I was fighting the urge to look at it, and then I thought, “Well, I’ll just look at some of the pictures but not read it, that couldn’t hurt,” and of course I wound up reading a lot of the little blurbs anyway. I don’t remember if I ended up reading or started reading the “making of” book beforehand. Point being, by the time the movie came out, I already knew a lot about what was going on. Also, the music video kind of spoiled the part of Obi-Wan jumping out of the cockpit and getting the battle droids, which I think would have been an exciting scene otherwise. So basically, nothing really came off as surprising to me. Also, I think I again listened to the soundtrack before the movie came out like I did with Phantom Menace, so while I thought the Luke and Leia themes at the end were definitely the most awesome thing ever, it wasn’t surprising the first time I saw it. It took the repeat viewings for me to really get more into it.
That being said, one of the things that hit me about the movie even the first time is that I wished this was how Anakin could’ve been in episode II! We actually see Anakin and Obi-Wan having some playful brotherly banter, and there even seems to be more chemistry between Anakin and Padme. So I guess we’re sort of left with a vision of what the prequels could’ve been.
There are some weak moments to the film: All of the running around on the ship at the beginning just seems a little pointless. I don’t just mean the Artoo stuff, but just the whole, “Ray shileds. Wait a minute! How did this happen? We’re smarter than this!” It just seems like unnecessary bits of filler in a movie that had really awesome deleted scenes. Oh, and Lisamarie mentioned the weird burping and farting that Sidious does when naming Darth…Vader.
But otherwise I like this movie a lot and it has some pretty good emotional beats and some moments of quiet intensity. And General Grievous kind of grew on me. Oh, and I was definitely stoked with this movie that we finally got to see the surface of Alderaan. I had been waiting the whole prequel trilogy to see Alderaan (and was deeply disappointed that it wasn’t in episode II), and here we finally got it. Although it’s still a little disappointing that it was for only about a minute at the end. I wish Alderaan had been a bigger player in the prequels, as it was kind of a big moment in the original.
And as much as you can probably label me a “prequel defender” and I enjoy watching them, I still can’t help but wonder if it would’ve been better for him to stick at his hints of a backstory and meet people’s story expectations a little better: e.g., Anakin being older when Obi-Wan meets him and them becoming friends, Obi-Wan deciding to train him over Yoda’s objections (instead of having it thrust upon him by Qui-Gon), Padme surviving and going to live on Alderaan.
I find this episode the least watchable of the three.
One thing that particularly bothered me, instantly, was Yoda referring to Palpatine not by name, but as “The Emperor.” Even with the assumption that Yoda had managed to hear of the establishment of the Empire, using the title is an acknowledgment by the senior representative of the Jedi Council of the Empire’s legitimacy.
@21/hoopmanjh: Star Wars has always been aimed at a younger audience. These films were an homage to the Saturday-matinee serials that Lucas watched as a kid. I’m always staggered when people talk as though this was conceived as some kind of ultra-serious adults-only thing. These are not Blade Runner or Alien. These are swashbuckling popcorn movies meant for kids and for grown-ups who want to relive their childhood. The Clone Wars had essentially the same target demographic as the movies themselves. If anything, TCW was frequently smarter than the movies themselves. And TCW was also a lot more violent than most TV animation aimed at young viewers.
@22/StrongDreams: The prosthetic makeup on Palpatine after Windu’s attack disfigured him was a recreation of the makeup Ian McDiarmid had worn in Return of the Jedi. Indeed, the fact that his much younger face had been hidden under that creepy old-guy makeup in ROTJ was what made it possible for him to play a decades-younger version of the same character in the prequels despite being two decades older.
@16, Putting him on the council and NOT making him a master was a petty power play. They were thumbing their nose at Palpatine for “telling them what to do”, and screw how being put in the middle made Anakin feel. If they didn’t think Anakin was ready to be a master, then they should have told Palpatine that and left Anakin out of it. Instead they treated Anakin like he requested this promotion and penalized him by saying “You can be a part of our SOOPER SEKRIT CLUB but NOT really”. This only furthered Anakin’s estrangement with the Jedi, which was exactly what Palpatine wanted. People as wise as the Jedi were supposed to be should be better than that.
So, petty.
@19, 21, I’m pretty sure the movie explicitly states that the artificial gravity did get knocked out.
@25, I get that the makeup was supposed to make him look that way, but it was terrible. He could have been made to look somewhat in between — he was thirty years older, and maybe evil takes its toll. Maybe do an injured face that ruined who he was and would yet grow in to who he became. In ROTJ he looked like an evil old man, but here it looks like a bad rubber mask.
Why exactly was Christopher Lee sufficiently unavailable that he couldn’t be the Fake Big Bad in place of Grievous? It’s not like he was spending oodles of time in New Zealand–plenty of characters’ speeches to “Saruman” were actually delivered to a tennis ball on a stick.
@24 – lerris: Really? I don’t recall that, I’ll have to check it out.
@25 – Chris: Yes, SW are juvenile matinee fiction, but there’s no denying that Episode I is much sillier than the OT, even ROTJ.
Great write up and I agree with all of your points. Except the posted link for Padme’s death.
In a lot of ways this really resonates with Mass Effect III for me,
VAGUE SPOILERS
Where the ending was such a simply, convoluted experience. But then my aching emotional mindset found and read the Indoctrination Theory and I was like, “Yes! That’s so brilliant and it fits with the high quality of storytelling that I have come to really appreciate from this franchise” only to have the authors and creative directors pop that hope balloon that had restored a plausible explanation for the collapsing of my choices into a composite ending and then foist upon me the exact same three red, green, and blue balloons that I didn’t want, only they’re slightly bigger now so that makes things okay.
END VAGUE SPOILERS
In the same way I read the provided link and thought, “What a great explanation that pulls from a Lucas introduced concept, the living force” except it’s not. We shouldn’t have to do this! We shouldn’t have to make up pure head cannon to help ease the emotional and cognitive disconnect that whole last third of this movie creates for the viewer. Again, a great explanation, but it’s not the right explanation.
Lucas seriously dropped the ball. That’s it. His Star Wars was not the Star Wars that grew out of the cultural fun and creative energy that surrounded the first three films. He dropped the ball in the execution of that story because of his unchecked creative power, checks that clearly existed during the development of IV, V, & VI. He wasn’t constrained by anything. Two great constraints that help make good concepts into great movies are budgetary limits and a certain amount of artistic dissension/sharing/handing off because you can’t be everywhere at once.
Lucas was “the senate!” to borrow a line from one of my favorite cinematic characters. I know some people want to equate the political rise of Palpatine to a geopolitical jab at the United States and it was in some ways. But all I saw was Lucas’ psychological introjection wherein he underestimated his unmitigated and unchallenged creative power and how it completely ignored the emotional impact that had developed around his entire franchise. So I’m grateful for the prequels in that they give me a loose cognitive framework for the story that is Star Wars and fun ways to interact and play with my kids, but that is all they really will ever be for me. What highlights this tragedy of “power, unlimited power!” are the gravitation towards alternate explanations and expanded universe content like the books and The Clone Wars animated series that do such a better job of creating character arcs and plausible explanations. Because Lucas didn’t have the time to micromanage those into the creative grave. He provided the framework and handed a lot of it off for execution.
Lucas is a visionary and great at production design. Execution, getting from point A to point B is his weakness. In some ways Spielberg suffers from the same thing. Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull almost made me walk out of the movie theater. I’ll probably catch some flack for it, but I also think the quality of writing in Harry Potter dipped over time as well; I suspect it’s because Rowling became a bit too big to properly edit.
Anyway, keep up the good work Emily. I enjoy your posts.
@19:
Weren’t they already in atmosphere above Couruscant? Seems that close to the planet, its gravity would assert itself.
The worst part of my (single) experience in watching this movie: We’ve just watched him betray and slaughter children, starting with a six-year-old. Then the movie expects me to was that it expected me to sympathize with his anguish that Padme doesn’t love him anymore. His moral journey is over, and the movie doesn’t seem to know that.
The best part — the only part I enjoyed — was the last twenty minutes or so when everyone is getting into position for Episode IV.
It’s an okay movie… as very expensive fan films go. But saying it’s the best of the prequels is like picking the favorite foot of the elephant that just trampled you.
Lucas probably didn’t need to make another trilogy, numbered “episodes” be damned. A lot of it felt like padding, especially the first one. I wish he had forgotten about selling toys and focused more on the writing. Could’ve been something special, maybe if he had modeled Anakin’s descent into hell more closely to something like the first two Godfather films with the good-natured war hero Michael Corleone gradually turning into a cold, sociopathic crime boss. (Likewise, another series that didn’t need to be a trilogy.)
But in the end, Anakin was a whiny kid whose slavery wasn’t harsh enough, whose tragedy was muddled, and whose portrayal was hampered by two poor actors delivering awful dialogue. Why care about this punk and his weepy girlfriend at all? They’re action figures lost in a screensaver.
@26/Aeryl: But that just makes it worse. If the artificial gravity was “knocked out” and they were still pulled sideways when the ship tilted sideways, that proves that there is some sort of external, universal gravity field imposing a uniform up/down direction in outer space, while somehow not causing stars and planets to fall out of position.
@29/lordmagnusen: Yes, some parts of the franchise are aimed younger than others — Episode I, Rebels, the old Ewok TV movies and Ewok and droid cartoons, and of course the Holiday Special. But the baseline demographic for the movie franchise as a whole is far from being adult-only, and The Clone Wars was older-skewing than your typical cable-TV cartoon today, so I’d say the movies and TCW come out to about the same age range. There is nothing particularly adult about the movie franchise. The romances are largely chaste and limited to the occasional onscreen kiss. The violence is pervasive but sanitized and fanciful, with the weapons conveniently cauterizing wounds so there’s no blood to speak of. Profanity is nonexistent, unless you count “poodoo” and “nerfherder.” And the stories and themes are pretty simplistic and broad on the whole, though Lucas did make a game effort to incorporate more complex ideas in the prequels’ exploration of Palpatine’s rise to power. There’s nothing about the movies that really skews any older than TCW did — aside from the negative, the fact that it didn’t have a younger adolescent core character like Ahsoka Tano to serve as an identification figure for younger viewers. But then, Luke and Leia were 19 in the original film, and Anakin was about that same age in Episode II.
@30/CireNaes: I blame Lucas, not Spielberg, for Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. Lucas was the one who insisted on doing the alien story and refused to bend until Spielberg finally gave in. Lucas was also the one who insisted on rewriting the much better Frank Darabont script into the mess we ended up with.
But I agree that most creators who become too successful to say “no” to inevitably end up getting self-indulgent and having their work suffer as a result. I’ve often hoped that I never become so successful a writer that nobody dares to edit me, because editing and constructive criticism make things better. (Although I wouldn’t mind being somewhat more successful than I am now…)
When I finally watched the movie in English, years later, I finally understood the pain of the US and British fans over the whole “Nooooo!” deal. It was sad and hilarious at the same time.
Fortunately for me, in Spain Darth Vader is dubbed by this guy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23eKBviF9KI
Possibly the best voiceover artist ever to grace our screens, ever. So the scene was hardly comical.
Damn, I miss Constantino Romero… :'(
“Profanity is nonexistent, unless you count “poodoo” and “nerfherder.” – come on, there are a few damns :)
Just watched it again over the weekend, and as far as Star Wars movies go, REVENGE OF THE SITH is pretty damned good. Definitely holds up very well after 10 years and repeated viewings. I understand all the scorn heaped upon THE PHANTOM MENACE, and while ATTACK OF THE CLONES is far better, and I do like it, I acknowledge that it has some fundamental flaws. But it’s clear that Lucas got a sense what was wrong with the first two prequels and took steps to fix it for his last go-round. It’s really a shame that the lousy reputation that the prequels have, fostered primarily by the first one, bleeds over to the last one.
I do think the film has flaws, though. Vince Gilligan did a much more effective and convincing job showing a man’s transition from good to evil in BREAKING BAD. (Lucas should have had us meet Anakin when he was already a young adult, and allowed us to see the slow transition starting with the first prequel. That would have given him plenty of time and space to fully develop and pace out Anakin’s final turn to the dark side.)
And with regard to Padme’s death, I personally would have gone one of two ways: Either make Anakin more responsible for it, in that when he choked her, he made her too weak to survive the birth of the babies, or I would have had her survive and adopt a new identity, perhaps as a handmaiden in the royal House of Alderaan, to tie in better with Leia’s line in JEDI that she remembered her real mother but lost her when she was very young.
But overall, I really, really like the film and it always keeps me thinking about it for days following each viewing.
One question Emily: given how they are so linked will you be looking at the ROTS novelization on it’s own or do you plan to discuss the two books that form a mini sequence with it: Labyrinth of Evil and Rise of a Dark Lord?
My own thought (well, OK, I think I’m stealing it from my brother) is that if Lucas wanted to see a well-done fall-from-grace story, he could’ve done worse than to read Dragonlance Legends.
I genuinely like this film a lot. More than Return of the Jedi even, as time goes by. It isn’t perfect, but it is propulsive, tense and finally George Lucas gets the ultimate payoff right. There are some straight-up great scenes, and the image of Padme looking off across the city and seeing the Jedi Temple burning against the sunset is incredible.
For what it’s worth, I never minded the “Noooooo!” at all, nor Padme’s losing the will to live. I have no idea how that is actually supposed to work, but I’m okay with it because of how heavy the circumstances are. Sucks for her kids, of course.
It would have been so nice if we had seen more of the actual Clone Wars in the films, and General Grievous had been built up as a character outside of the animated shows. Unfortunate, but at least Revenge of the Sith has too much in it, instead of not enough.
While it is a more satisfying picture than the first two, it is still a lot of slogging through overly busy action sequences and Lucas’s ham fisted attempts to inject contemporary politics into the story taking one out of the moment. The actions of the current administration sending the military into battle without a by your leave from Congress to the usurpations of legislative prerogative (the recent ACA decision means the law is not what the legislature wrote and passed but what the executive needs it to mean to achieve its policy goals) are a lot more dangerous to a functioning representative republic than what was going on then. That free marketers are made the enemy in the greatest merchandising movie franchise in history is as unselfaware as Obi-Wan’s lead balloon of a line that “Only the Sith deal in absolutes”.
My understanding was that the volcano fight was something Lucas had in mind from the release of The Empire Strikes Back if not before. I remember reading an articles that described it when that movie was released.
@41/Crusader75: US presidents of both parties have been launching military actions without Congressional approval for decades. It’s executive overreach, yes, but it’s not limited to any one administration or party.
When I’m actually acknowledging that the prequels are a thing that exist, I hate RotS most of all, because it tricked me into thinking I liked it at first.
Holy cow, thank you for calling out the nightgown with pearls! I mean, since I /saw/ that nightgown, that has been the single thing I have kvetched about most. Even as I watched the scene the very first time, I was asking everyone around me why the hell that nightgown had pearls and how was she going to SLEEP in that stupid thing?
(I’m well aware that there are huge problems with all the movies, but that one bit of costuming and the calling of the children “younglings” were the things I complained about most.)
I regret it’s a PG-13, running contrary to everything Lucas ever said about these being for kids. Why do we inject violence into so many great kids’ properties these days? There was not nearly enough explained: including the Dooku slaughter (Anakin hesitates, and regrets it immediately after – not an act of anger, more like “guess I have to” when he definitely did not have to); not enough explanation for Order 66; why three Jedi basically stand there and let Palpatine kill them; how Palpatine’s face goes all weird (unlikely sacrifice to make if it was just to get Anakin to act evil); and of course Padme’s death. If you’re just gonna wipe the droid memories, why did you bother sewing them into these prequels? I agree Anakin vs Obi-Wan SHOULD have been better than Yoda vs Palpatine, but it wasn’t. But it looked to me like Yoda just cut and run at the end. And I am so confused about the soundtrack for this movie. It’s the least thematic, most random, and the choice of music for the credits is just irrelevant.
The prequels definitely got away from Lucas for the lack of collaboration, but the man has ideas. Sad that he doesn’t have at least that input into what’s coming next. It may turn out to be the same mistake made in reverse.
This movie was so much better than the previous two prequels that it’s almost agonizing that they…just…missed…making it a great movie. It’s still the only prequel that I re-watch consistently. It has some amazing scenes. The duel between Anakin and Obi-Wan, the very first scene of the film, the improved relationship between Obi-Wan and Anakin (up to the end, of course), and my favorite scene of all…the opera scene between Palpatine and Anakin. I’m sorry, but anyone who says doesn’t believe that Ian McDiarmid OWNED this film is crazy (up until the end when he actually became the Emperor and starting really hamming it up…)
Palpatine is the entire reason that Anakin fell to the dark side, at least in the way that he did, even despite all his anger, fear, and pride issues. Those issues were constantly at war with the Jedi code, but Palpatine continually fanned the flames (he pointed out the Jedi’s distrust of Anakin, he pushed him to become the most powerful of all the Jedi, he pointed out that their dogmatic ideas were too confining.) He continually worked behind the scenes to undermine Anakin and put him at odds with the Jedi.
The idea to make Anakin his personal representative to the Jedi Council was brilliant. The council couldn’t really say no to the Chancellor (what reason would they give?) without showing themselves as opposed to him and insulting Anakin. But on the other hand, they couldn’t make Anakin a master; he wasn’t anywhere near ready. There was no good answer to that.
But the kicker was the real reason everything went to hell: Mace Windu. He was so staunchly opposed to Anakin throughout the trilogy that he made everything worse. His was the voice on the council that determined that Anakin would not be trained (the council may have decided it, but he said it to Qui-Gon.) He constantly mistrusted Anakin. You can say he was proven right, but that’s a bit of self-fulfilling prophecy, as he was always particularly cold to Anakin, and nowhere more than in the scene where he insultingly denies Anakin the rank of master. There were about 30 ways in which he could have done that more diplomatically, but Mace wasn’t a diplomat; he was a warrior. And that is what ultimately did him in and forced Anakin’s hand. If Mace hadn’t been prepared to kill Palpatine in cold blood, Anakin wouldn’t have panicked about losing Palpatine’s potential help in saving his wife. And make no mistake, at the the end, that is what pushed him over the edge, not friendship with Palpatine.
It was made clear, at least to me, that when Palpatine finally came clean to Anakin about being a Sith, he effectively burned the “old friend and mentor” bridge. Anakin, rightly, felt betrayed. He made his choice then and SIDED WITH THE JEDI! He told Mace Windu about Palpatine, even though Mace was probably the Jedi he trusted the least. And for that correct choice, he was still benched by Mace because Mace STILL couldn’t trust him!
Which led to Anakin intervening at the worst possible moment, when Mace was about to kill the one person Anakin believed could help him save his wife, and in defiance of the Jedi Code! So Mace proved himself a hypocrite, proved that at least some of Palpatine’s mistrust of the Jedi was for good cause, and proved that at least some Jedi were in fact, arguably, evil. Mace was willing to straight up murder the Supreme Chancellor of the Republic!
Watch how McDiarmid plays up his weakness in that scene, he practically snivels before Mace while Anakin watches. “Don’t let him kill me!” He played Anakin like a master at every pass. Anakin then had to make yet another choice and this time he came down on the side of Palpatine; at that stage, what else could he do? By the way, only Mace would have inspired that choice. Do you think for a moment that Obi-Wan or Yoda would have made the decision to kill Palpatine? Or that Anakin would have intervened against them if they had? No chance. Only Mace would have worked in that instance. Which is why it’s so important that Obi-Wan had been sent away and Yoda was on Kashyyk. Anakin was isolated from the only masters that he actually trusted.
Episode III was the culmination of an absolute master class in manipulation. And while I agree that more should have been shown in previous movies to illustrate it, that doesn’t take away the greatness of the effect in Revenge of the Sith. Not everything worked in that movie, but the way that Anakin and the Jedi were effectively checkmated by Palpatine worked to perfection.
@46 – cecrow: When he sold Lucasfilm to Disney, they said he was going to remain on call as a creative consultant. Hopefully they consulted him on stuff.
Oh, BTW, since we’re talking Star Wars… I HAVE MY TICKETS FOR EPISODE VII OPENING SCREENING!!! They were just put on sale yesterday, and I’ll be attending the first showing, 5 minutes into 17DEC! I’m so happy!
@47 – I don’t know if you watch the Clone Wars series, but Mace (who does have some good moments, including with Anakin) also proves to be a bit of a dick when young Boba finally confronts him about his father’s death. Tact is apparently not his strong suit.
@3: Where exactly did you get the idea that George Lucas had an ego or needed to have someone pulling his reins? It seems people conveniently forget he wrote and directed the original film (Episode IV) without any other writers involved. He needed collaborators for Empire and Jedi because he was spending a lot of time building Lucasfilm, Skywalker Ranch, plus developing Indiana Jones. I hate it when people shortchange the contribution of the man who created the whole thing.
And it’s not as if Episodes I, II and III had no collaborators. What qualifies as collaboration anyway? He had his cast, he had the designers, the visual effects artists, Ben Burtt, Rick McCallum’s as producer, Jonathan Hales as co-writer for Episode II, plus everybody else. But he was the producer and director. The final word was always going to be his. His vision, his universe.
Case in point, watching any of the DVD commentaries for the original films make it clear who was driving the show. Kershner barely talked about the story taking place, and only in a shallow way. Most of the mythology discussion was carried by Lucas.
Oh, come on, no one sensible argues against ESB being the absolute best film of the OT (and therefore, of both trilogies), and the script was written by Lawrence Kasdan and Leigh Bracket based on Lucas’s ideas, plus Kershner directed it, he wasn’t just the guy who yelled “action”.
Someone else wrote the script for ESB, someone co-wrote ROTJ with him, both movies were directed by other people, and no one co-wrote or directed the prequels, and the results are self-evident to anyone, even the staunchest prequel defender (like me).
I love Star Wars, I love George Lucas, and I’m forever grateful to him for creating Star Wars, but everybody admits he’s a great “imagineer”, but a poor writer and director, particularly a poor actor director.
@50/Eduardo: “It seems people conveniently forget he wrote and directed the original film (Episode IV) without any other writers involved.”
This is untrue. The script to the original film received an uncredited dialogue rewrite by Lucas’s American Grafitti cowriters Willard Huyck and Gloria Katz, while director Brian DePalma and Time writer Joe Cocks helped write the opening crawl. And Lucas owed a great deal to producer/second-unit director Gary Kurtz and others. I’ve seen it claimed that Kurtz ended up doing a lot of the work that should’ve been done by the director, though I can’t find a source for that at the moment. (And of course the novelization credited to Lucas was ghostwritten by Alan Dean Foster, though that’s hardly a secret.)
Lucas came up in the business as a film editor, not a writer. When he made the original film, even he didn’t think his writing was all that good, which is why he asked the Huycks to improve the dialogue. Back then, he had the humility to recognize his limits and his need for others. Once he became the master of Lucasfilm, though, he let success go to his head and assumed he could do it all himself, and as a result we got Jar-Jar and romantic dialogue about sand.
Thanks for the additional info on ANH, Chris.
I just caught up with the rewatch/read. So you’re telling me the novels–which, being written media, focus on plot and dialogue instead of CGI effects and visual spectacle–are better than the movies?! Whodathunkit.
I guess it’s kind of good to hear that somewhere the backstory is done a little justice, because the movies are such a let down in that regard. I don’t despise the movies (as you said in your first post, the frothing hate against these movies just isn’t worth it) but I do think they are a train wreck and a huge let down.
I love tragedies. Good tragedies. And Anakin’s fall should have been one of the best tragedies–and it is, sort of, in that the bones for it are there in all the movies but the production of them just KILLS it.
And the important factors for Anakin’s fall — that being Palpatine’s master manipulation, and also Obiwan’s failure as a Jedi master and mentor — are also not given enough weight and not played out as well as they should have been (in my mind).
I’m not sure if part of the reason why the movies are so bad (plot- and character-wise) is because Lucas expected a lot of this to be covered in the tie-in materials, but if so that’s just about the worst way to make a movie ever. But frankly I just think they’re bad because Lucas is terrible at making coherent movies when he’s in charge.
Anyway, I also had a question–you constantly refer to the Clone Wars (show?) that apparently does a decent job of answering and filling in a lot of stuff. Are you referring to the miniseries / set of movies by Genndy Tartakovsky (2003-2005), or are you talking about that other weird animated show called the Clone Wars that more recently aired (2008?)? Just curious because I can’t really tell. I think the Tartakovsky series is amazing (but I love all his stuff–Dexter’s Lab, Powerpuff Girls, and Samurai Jack). But the other series… ehh it was too much a kid’s show with the standard Mary Sue protagonist that I just couldn’t get into. (I must assume you’re talking about the former… but I wasn’t sure, some people have mentioned parts from the other show).
@52: Ironically, no one blames the Huycks for their role in Howard the Duck’s end result.
Once he became the master of Lucasfilm, though, he let success go to his head and assumed he could do it all himself, and as a result we got Jar-Jar and romantic dialogue about sand.
There is no basis for this assumption. In fact, you overlooked a pivotal moment from The Beginning documentary, which chronicles the production of Episode I. Specifically the review scene in which Lucas confides with his collaborators regarding the strenghts/weaknesses of Episode I’s rough cut. It starts at around 54:45.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da8s9m4zEpo
@54/naupathia: No doubt they’re referencing the later 3D-animated series, The Clone Wars, rather than the Tartakovsky 2D shorts, which were just Clone Wars. Your assessment of TCW is premature; it didn’t start out too impressively, but over time it became one of the richest, most complex and imaginative Star Wars productions ever. It was no more a kids’ show that the movies themselves were (and come on, seriously, Star Wars has always been aimed at kids, so why do so many fans talk as though that’s a bad thing?). And that “Mary Sue,” by which I assume you mean Ahsoka Tano, matured over the course of the series and became perhaps its most beloved character. Certainly its richest and most complex character, because she was able to undergo personal growth and change while the movie characters were basically trapped in time because their futures had already been decided by ROTS.
@55/Eduardo: Yes, obviously he had collaborators, because one guy can’t make a multigajillion-dollar movie by himself. The point is the balance of power. He was the director. The best SW movies are the ones he didn’t direct, because he’s pretty damn bad at directing human beings.
You think you’re defending him, but you’re not. Humility is good. The best creators are the ones who know their limits and can listen to criticism. Lucas lost that ability long ago, largely because he bought into the cult of personality that fans built up around him. The same thing happened to Gene Roddenberry. By TNG, he’d bought into the image of himself as a visionary philosopher rather than just a TV writer-producer, and so he got so caught up in trying to portray an ideal future that he neglected to tell good stories. (And he’s another creator who was far less of a solo auteur than his reputation suggested, who would’ve been far less effective without the talented people he surrounded himself with.)
@56: Someone has to take a positive defensive stand and challenge the criticism. Otherwise, we get a biased anti-prequel media which gives attention to idiots like Simon Pegg who unilaterally insults the entire fanbase without hesitation.
And I really don’t get the Roddenberry comparison. Roddenberry was borderline combative in his attempts to protect Trek and alienate other writers he felt threatened by. I don’t recall ever seeing such controlling behavior from Lucas.
The Making of… books are really interesting and I think also show how much of a role the other people involved (such as Kershner) had in shaping the movies. Perhaps not the story/mythology/themes – I agree, that’s all Lucas, and so I do hope he gets some input into the next movies, although I’m skeptical of that. But the way they are expressed, for sure.
I’m only two seasons into the Clone Wars series (the ‘canon’ one) and I have to agree so far about Ahsoka being a Mary Sue. She’s a character who is manufactured to be a fan favorite, and it shows. It’s not so much that she’s super talented, but more that she just doesn’t fit into the storyline (in my opinion) – I just don’t think there’s room for Anakin to have had a padawan, and I would rather have seen more done with his relationships with Obi-Wan and Padme, and learn more about the other Jedi. That said I can agree that she is basically the one character we get to see on some sort of journey.
There is also a lot of other good stuff too (although also quite a bit of stuff I found a bit silly/boring), especially as it regards to the clones. I think it gets pretty deep, actually.
I’m about half way through Tarkin, the new James Luceno novel, and while I’m sad that they decanonized all of the earlier stuff (the KotOR-era stories and the Clone Wars books from back around the time of the movies), this one is interesting; not least because it spends a fair amount of time talking about the Clone Wars and the Separatists (from a vantage point maybe 5 years after RotS) and how fundamentally silly their plans were, almost as if some shadowy figure was deliberately orchestrating a war …
@58/Lismarie – Don’t give upon Ashoka yet. She deepens and matures as the series does.
Besides, in all honesty, it only did the franchise good to “manufacture” a female character who could be a fan favorite. (I am biased, of course, being the father of an eight-year-old girl who went trick-or-treating as Ashoka last month.)
I think Sabine, on Rebels, is another attempt at a “manufactured fan favorite.” So far, I don’t think she’s working; she’s the least interesting character of the bunch, imo. But, given time as Ashoka was given time, who knows?
Hah, for a second I thought you were talking about the Duchess from Clone Wars Season 2 – who was actually one of my favorite characters – and then I realized her name was Satine, not Sabine. Sad.
I suppose we’ll see if Ahsoka grows on me. All characters are manufactured to an extent, but it shouldn’t be so obvious. Plus it they could have focused on some of the other overlooked female Jedi (I was always a huge Barriss fan so I get excited whenever she gets to be in an episode). I think part of it is that I just can’t find it believable that Anakin would have a padawan in the first place – both in terms of timeline, and the fact that in RotS we know the Jedi don’t even trust him – so I think that’s a large part in my ‘believing’ in the character being a natural fit into the story.
@61, I’ve never seen TCW(only bits and pieces), but a friend of my daughter’s bought me the kids book for it for Christmas the year it released(she knew I was a Star Wars fan and that I had lots of Star Wars books, but she knew I didn’t have THAT one!) and it that book it made it clear to me that Yoda gave him a Padawan in an attempt to teach him how to let go of his attachments, so I always found it easier to accept her character. I assumed at the time it was because Yoda knew she would die, and wanted to Anakin to try and deal with that(that assumption was wrong, as Ahsoka is still kicking it in Rebels). But anyways, it seemed apparent to me that he was the one learning from Ahsoka, not the other way around.
The other thing we got from the prequels (though now covering the original trilogy too) is the very good and funny Darths & Droids comic strip envisioning the Star Wars movies as a heavily off-the-rails RPG campaign. Starts out very funny and slapstick but ends up providing rational explanations for everything from a 14-year-old queen to the Anakin/Padme romance to Palpatine’s plan or lack thereof to a version of Grievous far more compelling than any movie, while still remaining pretty darn funny. I can’t recommend it highly enough.
@57/Eduardo: I have no reason for “bias.” I don’t care enough about Star Wars to have an agenda toward it. It’s simply my assessment as an observer that the films scripted and directed by people other than George Lucas were better than the ones scripted and directed by him.
@58/Lisamarie: I hate the term “Mary Sue” because people toss it around so profligately that it’s lost all meaning. There’s nothing intrinsically wrong with adding an important new character or one who has lots of worthwhile qualities. The original Mary Sue was not a criticism of that general practice, but a criticism of cases where it was done badly. People today have forgotten that distinction and blindly assume that the entire practice is automatically bad, so they don’t give it a fair chance. I also dislike it because people are far more likely to apply it to a female character than a male, as if the idea of a character being competent or worthy of respect is automatically wrong if that character is female. (Heck, the real Mary Sue is Anakin in the movies — he’s a Chosen One that never seems worthy, and Padme loves him for no clear reason. Although he’s much better handled in the show, as long as you can ignore the fact that you’re basically rooting for a future child-murderer and galactic tyrant.)
And far from not fitting the storyline, Ahsoka is essential to the storyline. The best TCW episodes tend to be the ones revolving around the original characters whose futures aren’t predetermined, whether Ahsoka or the original Clone Trooper characters. They’re the ones who get to have ongoing, evolving arcs and develop in surprising directions. They provide connective tissue to what’s otherwise essentially an anthology. Moreover, Ahsoka’s relationship with Anakin did what the movies failed to do — gave us a reason to respect and care about him so his ultimate fall would be more tragic.
One thing I liked about all three of the prequels was that they gave us a window into a much larger world than anything we’d seen in the OT — from the cityscapes of Coruscant and Theed to Kamino and Utapau and even Geonosis. That’s one thing that makes be a bit apprehensive about VII — it looks like it’s going back to mostly-wilderness planets out on the fringes.
I thought The Clone Wars was so much better than the Prequels they helped rescue. Especially for the reason CLM gives above; more than anything else, they help us feel for Anakin’s fall. My girls first exposure to Star Wars was that show. To them, the entire Saga is obviously the story of Anakin’s fall and redemption. I can’t view it that way, but I’m not bitter about it, because I can watch it through the eyes of my children now. And as I said in another thread, the fact that they get to view the point of Ep I-VI as a story of grace, redemption and love, rather than a story of Luke trying to kill his father and the Emperor because two Jedi Masters manipulated his whole life is a GOOD thing.
Also, I would say that after reading Aftermath, we should pay close attention to the Mortis arc of Season Three. Ep 3.15-3.17. There is a lot of talk regarding the nature of the Force that exists no where else in the Star Wars canon that I think will come into play with the First Order and Supreme Leader Snoke, and maybe even a retcon regarding Palpatine’s purpose.
I’m aware of the origins, politics and misuse of the term Mary Sue, so I try to be judicious in my use of it (although I’ve heard pretty good arguments for why it shouldn’t be used at all, too). Although I do think it’s probably best to keep it restricted to fan fiction – at least for me it refers to a character who is inserted into the main cast. Perhaps in fan fic it makes more sense to criticize this. I guess that now that TCW is officially canon she IS the main cast as well. I actually agree with you to a point about Anakin, although he IS the main cast so it’s a little different. But the main point of the prequels is (presuambly) about Anakin – one of the greatest Jedi – going bad, so I don’t know if it counts. Totally agree with you abuot Padme’s relationship to him though.
(Given the highly subjective nature of the term it probably does make more sense to just say ‘I don’t like this character because…’ – but I was also responding to the use of the term by another poster. It just so happens that the reason I didn’t like the character also coincides with my particular definition of MS).
I believe Ahsoka WAS introduced badly – at least at first. As I said, my dislike of her is not about her character itself (ie, being a talented, proficient character) but the fact that I don’t think she fits organically into the story. ESPECIALLY in the first Clone Wars movie/season. And she isn’t strictly necessary to show Anakin’s character as we could have gotten that from his interactions with Obi-Wan and other Jedi or clones. (And to be fair – I don’t think all characters need to be ‘necessary’ technically nothing about a made up story is necessary, I guess I’m just saying they COULD have gotten those things across in other ways if that were the only thing they cared about. But of course there are plenty of other reasons to have a character). I’ve heard the various reasons why Anakin might have had a Padawan (whom we then never hear a thing about in the third movie) but it alway struck me as jarring. In fact, I think before I even saw the show I wasn’t a fan of the concept.
This doesn’t mean that her character is doomed forever. I bounced off of her pretty hard in her first appearances in the movie and the first season (it’s been so long since I watched them that I can’t even remember the specifics anymore), and it felt to me like she was jammed in. I guess it’s just that in the beginning she seemed to come out of nowhere and was practically as powerful/skilled as all the other experienced Jedi, talking back to Admirals in a military situation, etc. and I’m just like…who the heck is this person? And why does she keep saying ‘Artoo-y’ and calling her Master ‘Skyguy’. I also felt she didn’t suffer nearly enough consequences over whatever disaster took place that got her whole squadron killed, aside from a little bit of moping/feeling guilty. I remember feeling a little miffed at whatever episode had Luminara in it (first season) where, once again, Asokha knows best or saves the day, etc (I liked the one in the second season where she and Barriss got to team up, although even that seemed to have an element of ‘my Padawan is better than yours’.) I do think the second season did a bit better in balancing a bit and seeing her grapple with things and not always making the right decisions (which is what I’d expect from a Padawan, no matter how much raw talent). So I’m hoping as the show goes on we get more nuance in her character. She is just kind of like the scratchy tag in the back of a shirt though to me. This is definitely a YMMV/subjective thing, but for me at least, they crossed the line between sassy/snarky/assertive and annoying with her. (Look, I love sassy characters. Veronica Mars is one of my favorite shows ever and that’s basically about a snarky teenage girl who definitely gets in and out of unbelievable situations and is way too ‘powerful’ to be a normal teenager).
Taken in isolation, I enjoy the dynamic between her and Anakin and seeing the lessons the way they learn from each other. I think it WILL be interesting to observe how she reacts to his growing darkness, and what she takes from that. I do know she ultimately leaves the Order (somebody spoiled it for me after I explicltly told them not to :P ) but not a lot of details on that so it will be interesting to see what drives that. I’m assuming in some ways she’ll end up what Anakin COULD have been – somebody who is willing to think outside the box or go against ‘the rules’ if it means doing the right thing, but without the attachment/Dark side issues and still ultimately in service to others. And that’s an interesting prospect. But for now she’s kind of like the Wesley Crusher of Star Wars (which is funny because I actually didn’t have a huge problem with that character.)
It’s also possible I’m just not in the target age bracket. If pre-teen/teen girls are watching the show and see a character they can relate to in Ahsoka – well, that’s great, and more power to them.
@67/Lisamarie: “at least for me it refers to a character who is inserted into the main cast.”
See, that’s what I’m saying. It’s not supposed to be for any new character inserted into the main cast, because sometimes such characters can be genuinely well-done and worthwhile. And in something like this, an interstitial series between movies, such characters are needed for the reasons I’ve mentioned — and there’s a long tradition of adding characters meant as identification figures for young audience members, like Jimmy Olsen for the Superman radio series. “Mary Sue” should be reserved for badly done examples, things that are just author-insertion self-indulgence or exaggeratedly bad writing.
As for whether Ahsoka was handled badly early on, it never seemed to me she came off any worse than any of the other characters. It’s not like I’ve ever expected that much from the writing in this franchise anyway. But there’s a time jump midway through the series during which Ahsoka undergoes a growth spurt, and her more mature version is a pretty impressive character. I think the age jump may have been done specifically to address some of the early concerns about the character, though maybe not, given the really long lead time between writing and release.
And I’m sure as heck not a preteen girl, but Ahsoka is one of my favorite Star Wars characters. Indeed, it’s usually the female characters I like the best — I think Leia is awesome, and Hera and Sabine are the only characters in the Rebels main cast that I don’t find dull or annoying.
@65 – hoopmanjh: Yes, I liked that about the prequels too. I don’t worry about the locations of the new episode, though, because I’m more interested in the story right now than in seeing more of the galaxy… which I’ve already seen in the prequel trilogy, and in tons of books and comics.
@69 – haha, I’m not trying to imply that ONLY preteen/teen girls will like Ahsoka, sorry about that.
Anyway, no I get it – it’s a highly subjective term and probably everybody’s mileage will vary on it. I didn’t mean to imply that EVERY time a character is inserted into a main cast I don’t like them, but that in this case, it wasn’t done well. To me, at least. The time skip sounds rather interesting, although in a way, I would have liked to watch her mature. But in all honesty, the chronology of the series has always confused me a bit anyway :)
@71/Lisamarie: This page lists the chronological order for The Clone Wars.
Huh. I had no idea that the Clone Wars series wasn’t chronological by air date.
Thanks :) @73 – I don’t remember when I figured that out, but there’s a second season episode that takes place BEFORE the first season episodes, or something like that. And I was really confused and thinking ‘weren’t we already at this planet?’. But I did find some other wiki eventually that spelled it all out.
I’ve read about 70 Star Wars novels ’till about year 2000. The main thing that drove me was finding out more about the force and the Jedi/Fallen Jedi, and maybe moreover the character’s relationships and ongoing growth. I finally droped it as I realised, with big frustration, that there no more answers and no more depth to the Force, or the Jedi Order, it remained to shallow for it’s potential. The prequels made a whole lot of mess out of it. Giving us new aspects of the force which don’t get along together.
Lucas failed big time with bad dialogues bad casting especially for Anakin (on a side note how come being a clone of the biggest badass bountyhunter makes all his duplicates the worst soldiers in history?) . I didn’t sympathise with no one, didn’t feel for any character (Lucas even ruined Ewan as a good casting for Obi-Wan) – so after being dissapointed with the story, the building up of the characters, I was left with one small thing to enjoy – The world building and the fastpaced Lightsaber duels, that’s the only reason I was more content with Phantom Menace than Ep 2 and 3 (besides the great fight between Sidious and Yoda). Lucas just ruined the best potential ever for a prequel, anticipated for nearly 3 decades and I don’t forgive and won’t forget
sorry meant to say nearly 2 decades
75, you’re not wrong on both of those aspects, though I suspect you were always foredoomed with regards the Force.
Oh well, at least we got Pod Racing.