Start reading Oathbringer, the new volume of Brandon Sanderson’s Stormlight Archive epic, right now. For free!
Tor.com is serializing the much-awaited third volume in the Stormlight Archive series every Tuesday until the novel’s November 14, 2017 release date.
Every installment is collected here in the Oathbringer index.
Need a refresher on the Stormlight Archive before beginning Oathbringer? Here’s a summary of what happened in Book 1: The Way of Kings and Book 2: Words of Radiance.
Spoiler warning: Comments will contain spoilers for previous Stormlight books, other works that take place in Sanderson’s cosmere (Elantris, Mistborn, Warbreaker, etc.), and the available chapters of Oathbringer, along with speculation regarding the chapters yet to come.
Chapter 4
Oaths
I know that many women who read this will see it only as further proof that I am the godless heretic everyone claims.
—From Oathbringer, preface
Two days after Sadeas was found dead, the Everstorm came again.
Dalinar walked through his chambers in Urithiru, pulled by the unnatural storm. Bare feet on cold rock. He passed Navani—who sat at the writing desk working on her memoirs again—and stepped onto his balcony, which hung straight out over the cliffs beneath Urithiru.
He could feel something, his ears popping, cold—even more cold than usual—blowing in from the west. And something else. An inner chill.
“Is that you, Stormfather?” Dalinar whispered. “This feeling of dread?”
This thing is not natural, the Stormfather said. It is unknown.
“It didn’t come before, during the earlier Desolations?”
No. It is new.
As always, the Stormfather’s voice was far off, like very distant thunder. The Stormfather didn’t always reply to Dalinar, and didn’t remain near him. That was to be expected; he was the soul of the storm. He could not—should not—be contained.
And yet, there was an almost childish petulance to the way he sometimes ignored Dalinar’s questions. It seemed that sometimes he did so merely because he didn’t want Dalinar to think that he would come whenever called.
The Everstorm appeared in the distance, its black clouds lit from within by crackling red lightning. It was low enough in the sky that—fortunately—its top wouldn’t reach Urithiru. It surged like a cavalry, trampling the calm, ordinary clouds below.
Dalinar forced himself to watch that wave of darkness flow around Urithiru’s plateau. Soon it seemed as if their lonely tower were a lighthouse looking over a dark, deadly sea.
It was hauntingly silent. Those red lightning bolts didn’t rumble with thunder in the proper way. He heard the occasional crack, stark and shocking, like a hundred branches snapping at once. But the sounds didn’t seem to match the flashes of red light that rose from deep within.
The storm was so quiet, in fact, that he was able to hear the telltale rustle of cloth as Navani slipped up behind him. She wrapped her arms around him, pressing against his back, resting her head against his shoulder. His eyes flickered down, and he noticed that she’d removed the glove from her safehand. It was barely visible in the dark: slender, gorgeous fingers—delicate, with the nails painted a blushing red. He saw it by the light of the first moon above, and by the intermittent flashes of the storm beneath.
“Any further word from the west?” Dalinar whispered. The Everstorm was slower than a highstorm, and had hit Shinovar many hours before. It did not recharge spheres, even if you left them out during the entire Everstorm.
“The spanreeds are abuzz. The monarchs are delaying a response, but I suspect that soon they’ll realize they have to listen to us.”
“I think you underestimate the stubbornness a crown can press into a man or woman’s mind, Navani.”
Dalinar had been out during his share of highstorms, particularly in his youth. He’d watched the chaos of the stormwall pushing rocks and refuse before it, the sky-splitting lightning, the claps of thunder. Highstorms were the ultimate expression of nature’s power: wild, untamed, sent to remind man of his insignificance.
However, highstorms never seemed hateful. This storm was different. It felt vengeful.
Staring into that blackness below, Dalinar thought he could see what it had done. A series of impressions, thrown at him in anger. The storm’s experiences as it had slowly crossed Roshar.
Houses ripped apart, screams of the occupants lost to the tempest.
People caught in their fields, running in a panic before the unpredicted storm.
Cities blasted with lightning. Towns cast into shadow. Fields swept barren.
And vast seas of glowing red eyes, coming awake like spheres suddenly renewed with Stormlight.
Dalinar hissed out a long, slow breath, the impressions fading. “Was that real?” he whispered.
Yes, the Stormfather said. The enemy rides this storm. He’s aware of you, Dalinar.
Not a vision of the past. Not some possibility of the future. His kingdom, his people, his entire world was being attacked. He drew a deep breath. At the very least, this wasn’t the singular tempest that they’d experienced when the Everstorm had clashed with the highstorm for the first time. This seemed less powerful. It wouldn’t tear down cities, but it did rain destruction upon them—and the winds would attack in bursts, hostile, even deliberate.
The enemy seemed more interested in preying upon the small towns. The fields. The people caught unaware.
Though it was not as destructive as he’d feared, it would still leave thousands dead. It would leave cities broken, particularly those without shelter to the west. More importantly, it would steal the parshmen laborers and turn them into Voidbringers, loosed on the public.
All in all, this storm would exact a price in blood from Roshar that hadn’t been seen since… well, since the Desolations.
He lifted his hand to grasp Navani’s, as she in turn held to him. “You did what you could, Dalinar,” she whispered after a time watching. “Don’t insist on carrying this failure as a burden.”
“I won’t.”
She released him and turned him around, away from the sight of the storm. She wore a dressing gown, not fit to go about in public, but also not precisely immodest.
Save for that hand, with which she caressed his chin. “I,” she whispered, “don’t believe you, Dalinar Kholin. I can read the truth in the tightness of your muscles, the set of your jaw. I know that you, while being crushed beneath a boulder, would insist that you’ve got it under control and ask to see field reports from your men.”
The scent of her was intoxicating. And those entrancing, brilliant violet eyes.
“You need to relax, Dalinar,” she said.
“Navani…” he said.
She looked at him, questioning, so beautiful. Far more gorgeous than when they’d been young. He’d swear it. For how could anyone be as beautiful as she was now?
He seized her by the back of the head and pulled her mouth to his own. Passion woke within him. She pressed her body to his, breasts pushing against him through the thin gown. He drank of her lips, her mouth, her scent. Passionspren fluttered around them like crystal flakes of snow.
Dalinar stopped himself and stepped back.
“Dalinar,” she said as he pulled away. “Your stubborn refusal to get seduced is making me question my feminine wiles.”
“Control is important to me, Navani,” he said, his voice hoarse. He gripped the stone balcony wall, white knuckled. “You know how I was, what I became, when I was a man with no control. I will not surrender now.”
She sighed and sidled up to him, pulling his arm free of the stone, then slipping under it. “I won’t push you, but I need to know. Is this how it’s going to continue? Teasing, dancing on the edge?”
“No,” he said, staring out over the darkness of the storm. “That would be an exercise in futility. A general knows not to set himself up for battles he cannot win.”
“Then what?”
“I’ll find a way to do it right. With oaths.”
The oaths were vital. The promise, the act of being bound together.
“How?” she said, then poked him in the chest. “I’m as religious as the next woman—more than most, actually. But Kadash turned us down, as did Ladent, even Rushu. She squeaked when I mentioned it and literally ran away.”
“Chanada,” Dalinar said, speaking of the senior ardent of the warcamps. “She spoke to Kadash, and had him go to each of the ardents. She probably did it the moment she heard we were courting.”
“So no ardent will marry us,” Navani said. “They consider us siblings. You’re stretching to find an impossible accommodation; continue with this, and it’s going to leave a lady wondering if you actually care.”
“Have you ever thought that?” Dalinar said. “Sincerely.”
“Well… no.”
“You are the woman I love,” Dalinar said, pulling her tight. “A woman I have always loved.”
“Then who cares?” she said. “Let the ardents hie to Damnation, with ribbons around their ankles.”
“Blasphemous.”
“I’m not the one telling everyone that God is dead.”
“Not everyone,” Dalinar said. He sighed, letting go of her—with reluctance—and walked back into his rooms, where a brazier of coal radiated welcome warmth, as well as the room’s only light. They had recovered his fabrial heating device from the warcamps, but didn’t yet have the Stormlight to run it. The scholars had discovered long chains and cages, apparently used for lowering spheres down into the storms, so they’d be able to renew their spheres—if the highstorms ever returned. In other parts of the world, the Weeping had restarted, then fitfully stopped. It might start again. Or the proper storms might start up. Nobody knew, and the Stormfather refused to enlighten him.
Navani entered and pulled the thick drapings closed over the doorway, tying them tightly in place. This room was heaped with furniture, chairs lining the walls, rolled rugs stacked atop them. There was even a standing mirror. The images of twisting windspren along its sides bore the distinctly rounded look of something that had been carved first from weevilwax, then Soulcast into hardwood.
They had deposited all this here for him, as if worried about their highprince living in simple stone quarters. “Let’s have someone clear this out for me tomorrow,” Dalinar said. “There’s room enough for it in the chamber next door, which we can turn into a sitting room or a common room.”
Navani nodded as she settled onto one of the sofas—he saw her reflected in the mirror—her hand still casually uncovered, gown dropping to the side, exposing neck, collarbone, and some of what was beneath. She wasn’t trying to be seductive right now; she was merely comfortable around him. Intimately familiar, past the point where she felt embarrassed for him to see her uncovered.
It was good that one of them was willing to take the initiative in the relationship. For all his impatience to advance on the battlefield, this was one area in which he’d always needed encouragement. Same as it had been all those years ago…
“When I married last,” Dalinar said softly, “I did many things wrong.
I started wrong.”
“I wouldn’t say that. You married Shshshsh for her Shardplate, but many marriages are for political reasons. That doesn’t mean you were wrong. If you’ll recall, we all encouraged you to do it.”
As always, when he heard his dead wife’s name, the word was replaced to his hearing with a breezy sound of rushing air—the name couldn’t gain purchase in his mind, any more than a man could hold to a gust of wind.
“I’m not trying to replace her, Dalinar,” Navani said, suddenly sounding concerned. “I know you still have affection for Shshshsh. It’s all right. I can share you with her memory.”
Oh, how little they all understood. He turned toward Navani, set his jaw against the pain, and said it.
“I don’t remember her, Navani.”
She looked to him with a frown, as if she thought she hadn’t heard him correctly.
“I can’t remember my wife at all,” he said. “I don’t know her face. Portraits of her are a fuzzy smudge to my eyes. Her name is taken from me whenever spoken, like someone has plucked it away. I don’t remember what she and I said when we first met; I can’t even remember seeing her at the feast that night when she first arrived. It’s all a blur. I can remember some events surrounding my wife, but nothing of the actual details. It’s all just… gone.”
Navani raised her safehand fingers to her mouth, and from the way her brow knit with concern, he figured he must look like he was in agony.
He slumped down in a chair across from her. “The alcohol?” she asked softly.
“Something more.”
She breathed out. “The Old Magic. You said you knew both your boon and your curse.”
He nodded. “Oh, Dalinar.”
“People glance at me when her name comes up,” Dalinar continued, “and they give me these looks of pity. They see me keeping a stiff expression, and they assume I’m being stoic. They infer hidden pain, when really I’m just trying to keep up. It’s hard to follow a conversation where half of it keeps slipping away from your brain.
“Navani, maybe I did grow to love her. I can’t remember. Not one moment of intimacy, not one fight, not a single word she ever said to me. She’s gone, leaving debris that mars my memory. I can’t remember how she died. That one gets to me, because there are parts of that day I know I should remember. Something about a city in rebellion against my brother, and my wife being taken hostage?”
That… and a long march alone, accompanied only by hatred and the Thrill. He remembered those emotions vividly. He’d brought vengeance to those who had taken his wife from him.
Navani settled down on the seat beside Dalinar, resting her head on his shoulder. “Would that I could create a fabrial,” she whispered, “to take away this kind of pain.”
“I think… I think losing her must have hurt me terribly,” Dalinar whispered, “because of what it drove me to do. I am left with only the scars. Regardless, Navani, I want it to be right with us. No mistakes. Done properly, with oaths, spoken to you before someone.”
“Mere words.”
“Words are the most important things in my life right now.”
She parted her lips, thoughtful. “Elhokar?”
“I wouldn’t want to put him in that position.”
“A foreign priest? From the Azish, maybe? They’re almost Vorin.”
“That would be tantamount to declaring myself a heretic. It goes too far. I will not defy the Vorin church.” He paused. “I might be willing to side-step it though.…”
“What?” she asked.
He looked upward, toward the ceiling. “Maybe we go to someone with authority greater than theirs.”
“You want a spren to marry us?” she said, sounding amused. “Using a foreign priest would be heretical, but not a spren?”
“The Stormfather is the largest remnant of Honor,” Dalinar said. “He’s a sliver of the Almighty himself—and is the closest thing to a god we have left.”
“Oh, I’m not objecting,” Navani said. “I’d let a confused dishwasher marry us. I just think it’s a little unusual.”
“It’s the best we’re going to get, assuming he is willing.” He looked to Navani, then raised his eyebrows and shrugged.
“Is that a proposal?”
“…Yes?”
“Dalinar Kholin,” she said. “Surely you can do better.”
He rested his hand on the back of her head, touching her black hair, which she had left loose. “Better than you, Navani? No, I don’t think that I could. I don’t think that any man has ever had a chance better than this.”
She smiled, and her only reply was a kiss.
Dalinar was surprisingly nervous as, several hours later, he rode one of Urithiru’s strange fabrial lifts toward the roof of the tower. The lift resembled a balcony, one of many that lined a vast open shaft in the middle of Urithiru—a columnar space as wide as a ballroom, which stretched up from the first floor to the last one.
The tiers of the city, despite looking circular from the front, were actually more half-circles, with the flat sides facing east. The edges of the lower levels melded into the mountains to either side, but the very center was open to the east. The rooms up against that flat side had windows there, providing a view toward the Origin.
And here, in this central shaft, those windows made up one wall. A pure, single unbroken pane of glass hundreds of feet tall. In the day, that lit the shaft with brilliant sunlight. Now, it was dark with the gloom of night.
The balcony crawled steadily along a vertical trench in the wall; Adolin and Renarin rode with him, along with a few guards and Shallan Davar. Navani was already up above. The group stood on the other side of the balcony, giving him space to think. And to be nervous.
Why should he be nervous? He could hardly keep his hands from shaking. Storms. You’d think he was some silk-covered virgin, not a general well into his middle years.
He felt a rumbling deep within him. The Stormfather was being responsive at the moment, for which he was grateful.
“I’m surprised,” Dalinar whispered to the spren, “you agreed to this so willingly. Grateful, but still surprised.”
I respect all oaths, the Stormfather responded.
“What about foolish oaths? Made in haste, or in ignorance?”
There are no foolish oaths. All are the mark of men and true spren over beasts and subspren. The mark of intelligence, free will, and choice.
Dalinar chewed on that, and found he was not surprised by the extreme opinion. Spren should be extreme; they were forces of nature. But was this how Honor himself, the Almighty, had thought?
The balcony ground its inexorable way toward the top of the tower. Only a handful of the dozens of lifts worked; back when Urithiru flourished, they all would have been going at once. They passed level after level of unexplored space, which bothered Dalinar. Making this his fortress was like camping in an unknown land.
The lift finally reached the top floor, and his guards scrambled to open the gates. Those were from Bridge Thirteen these days—he’d assigned Bridge Four to other responsibilities, considering them too important for simple guard duty, now that they were close to becoming Radiants.
Increasingly anxious, Dalinar led the way past several pillars designed with representations of the orders of Radiants. A set of steps took him up through a trapdoor onto the very roof of the tower.
Although each tier was smaller than the one below it, this roof was still over a hundred yards wide. It was cold up here, but someone had set up braziers for warmth and torches for light. The night was strikingly clear, and high above, starspren swirled and made distant patterns.
Dalinar wasn’t sure what to make of the fact that no one—not even his sons—had questioned him when he’d announced his intent to marry in the middle of the night, on the roof of the tower. He searched out Navani, and was shocked to see that she’d found a traditional bridal crown. The intricate headdress of jade and turquoise complemented her wedding gown. Red for luck, it was embroidered with gold and shaped in a much looser style than the havah, with wide sleeves and a graceful drape.
Should Dalinar have found something more traditional to wear himself ? He suddenly felt like a dusty, empty frame hung beside the gorgeous painting that was Navani in her wedding regalia.
Elhokar stiffly stood at her side wearing a formal golden coat and loose takama underskirt. He was paler than normal, following the failed assassination attempt during the Weeping, where he’d nearly bled to death. He’d been resting a great deal lately.
Though they’d decided to forgo the extravagance of a traditional Alethi wedding, they had invited some others. Brightlord Aladar and his daughter, Sebarial and his mistress. Kalami and Teshav to act as witnesses. He felt relieved to see them there—he’d feared Navani would be unable to find women willing to notarize the wedding.
A smattering of Dalinar’s officers and scribes filled out the small procession. At the very back of the crowd gathered between the braziers, he spotted a surprising face. Kadash, the ardent, had come as requested. His scarred, bearded face didn’t look pleased, but he had come. A good sign. Perhaps with everything else happening in the world, a highprince marrying his widowed sister-in-law wouldn’t cause too much of a stir.
Dalinar stepped up to Navani and took her hands, one shrouded in a sleeve, the other warm to his touch. “You look amazing,” he said. “How did you find that?”
“A lady must be prepared.”
Dalinar looked to Elhokar, who bowed his head to Dalinar. This will further muddy the relationship between us, Dalinar thought, reading the same sentiment on his nephew’s features.
Gavilar would not appreciate how his son had been handled. Despite his best intentions, Dalinar had trodden down the boy and seized power. Elhokar’s time recuperating had worsened the situation, as Dalinar had grown accustomed to making decisions on his own.
However, Dalinar would be lying to himself if he said that was where it had begun. His actions had been done for the good of Alethkar, for the good of Roshar itself, but that didn’t deny the fact that—step by step—he’d usurped the throne, despite claiming all along he had no intention of doing so.
Dalinar let go of Navani with one hand and rested it on his nephew’s shoulder. “I’m sorry, son,” he said.
“You always are, Uncle,” Elhokar said. “It doesn’t stop you, but I don’t suppose that it should. Your life is defined by deciding what you want, then seizing it. The rest of us could learn from that, if only we could figure out how to keep up.”
Dalinar winced. “I have things to discuss with you. Plans that you might appreciate. But for tonight, I simply ask your blessing, if you can find it to give.”
“This will make my mother happy,” Elhokar said. “So, fine.” Elhokar kissed his mother on the forehead, then left them, striding across the rooftop. At first Dalinar worried the king would stalk down below, but he stopped beside one of the more distant braziers, warming his hands.
“Well,” Navani said. “The only one missing is your spren, Dalinar. If he’s going to—”
A strong breeze struck the top of the tower, carrying with it the scent of recent rainfall, of wet stone and broken branches. Navani gasped, pulling against Dalinar.
A presence emerged in the sky. The Stormfather encompassed everything, a face that stretched to both horizons, regarding the men imperiously. The air became strangely still, and everything but the tower’s top seemed to fade. It was as if they had slipped into a place outside of time itself.
Lighteyes and guards alike murmured or cried out. Even Dalinar, who had been expecting this, found himself taking a step backward—and he had to fight the urge to cringe down before the spren.
OATHS, the Stormfather rumbled, ARE THE SOUL OF RIGHTEOUSNESS. IF YOU ARE TO SURVIVE THE COMING TEMPEST, OATHS MUST GUIDE YOU..
“I am comfortable with oaths, Stormfather,” Dalinar called up to him. “As you know.”
YES. THE FIRST IN MILLENNIA TO BIND ME. Somehow, Dalinar felt the spren’s attention shifting to Navani. AND YOU. DO OATHS HOLD MEANING TO YOU?
“The right oaths,” Navani said.
AND YOUR OATH TO THIS MAN?
“I swear it to him, and to you, and any who care to listen. Dalinar Kholin is mine, and I am his.”
YOU HAVE BROKEN OATHS BEFORE
“All people have,” Navani said, unbowed. “We’re frail and foolish. This one I will not break. I vow it.”
The Stormfather seemed content with this, though it was far from a traditional Alethi wedding oath. Bondsmith? he asked.
“I swear it likewise,” Dalinar said, holding to her. “Navani Kholin is mine, and I am hers. I love her.”
SO BE IT.
Dalinar had anticipated thunder, lightning, some kind of celestial trump of victory. Instead, the timelessness ended. The breeze passed. The Stormfather vanished. All through the gathered guests, smoky blue awespren rings burst out above heads. But not Navani’s. Instead she was ringed by gloryspren, the golden lights rotating above her head. Nearby, Sebarial rubbed his temple—as if trying to understand what he’d seen. Dalinar’s new guards sagged, looking suddenly exhausted.
Adolin, being Adolin, let out a whoop. He ran over, trailing joyspren in the shape of blue leaves that hurried to keep up with him. He gave Dalinar—then Navani—enormous hugs. Renarin followed, more reserved but—judging from the wide grin on his face—equally pleased.
The next part became a blur, shaking hands, speaking words of thanks. Insisting that no gifts were needed, as they’d skipped that part of the traditional ceremony. It seemed that the Stormfather’s pronouncement had been dramatic enough that everyone accepted it. Even Elhokar, despite his earlier pique, gave his mother a hug and Dalinar a clasp on the shoulder before going below.
That left only Kadash. The ardent waited to the end. He stood with hands clasped before him as the rooftop emptied.
To Dalinar, Kadash had always looked wrong in those robes. Though he wore the traditional squared beard, it was not an ardent that Dalinar saw. It was a soldier, with a lean build, dangerous posture, and keen light violet eyes. He had a twisting old scar running up to and around the top of his shaved head. Kadash’s life might now be one of peace and service, but his youth had been spent at war.
Dalinar whispered a few words of promise to Navani, and she left him to go to the level below, where she’d ordered food and wine to be set up. Dalinar stepped over to Kadash, confident. The pleasure of having finally done what he’d postponed for so long surged through him. He was married to Navani. This was a joy that he’d assumed lost to him since his youth, an outcome he hadn’t even allowed himself to dream would be his.
He would not apologize for it, or for her.
“Brightlord,” Kadash said quietly.
“Formality, old friend?”
“I wish I could only be here as an old friend,” Kadash said softly. “I have to report this, Dalinar. The ardentia will not be pleased.”
“Surely they cannot deny my marriage if the Stormfather himself blessed the union.”
“A spren? You expect us to accept the authority of a spren?”
“A remnant of the Almighty.”
“Dalinar, that’s blasphemy,” Kadash said, voice pained. “Kadash. You know I’m no heretic. You’ve fought by my side.”
“That’s supposed to reassure me? Memories of what we did together, Dalinar? I appreciate the man you have become; you should avoid reminding me of the man you once were.”
Dalinar paused, and a memory swirled up from the depths inside him—one he hadn’t thought of in years. One that surprised him. Where had it come from?
He remembered Kadash, bloodied, kneeling on the ground having retched until his stomach was empty. A hardened soldier who had encountered something so vile that even he was shaken.
He’d left to become an ardent the next day.
“The Rift,” Dalinar whispered. “Rathalas.”
“Dark times need not be dredged up,” Kadash said. “This isn’t about… that day, Dalinar. It’s about today, and what you’ve been spreading among the scribes. Talk of these things you’ve seen in visions.”
“Holy messages,” Dalinar said, feeling cold. “Sent by the Almighty.”
“Holy messages claiming the Almighty is dead?” Kadash said. “Arriving on the eve of the return of the Voidbringers? Dalinar, can’t you see how this looks? I’m your ardent, technically your slave. And yes, perhaps still your friend. I’ve tried to explain to the councils in Kharbranth and Jah Keved that you mean well. I tell the ardents of the Holy Enclave that you’re looking back toward when the Knights Radiant were pure, rather than their eventual corruption. I tell them that you have no control over these visions.
“But Dalinar, that was before you started teaching that the Almighty was dead. They’re angry enough over that, and now you’ve gone and defied convention, spitting in the eyes of the ardents! I personally don’t think it matters if you marry Navani. That prohibition is outdated to be sure. But what you’ve done tonight…”
Dalinar reached to place a hand on Kadash’s shoulder, but the man pulled away.
“Old friend,” Dalinar said softly, “Honor might be dead, but I have felt… something else. Something beyond. A warmth and a light. It is not that God has died, it is that the Almighty was never God. He did his best to guide us, but he was an impostor. Or perhaps only an agent. A being not unlike a spren—he had the power of a god, but not the pedigree.”
Kadash looked at him, eyes widening. “Please, Dalinar. Don’t ever repeat what you just said. I think I can explain away what happened tonight. Maybe. But you don’t seem to realize you’re aboard a ship barely afloat in a storm, while you insist on doing a jig on the prow!”
“I will not hold back truth if I find it, Kadash,” Dalinar said. “You just saw that I am literally bound to a spren of oaths. I don’t dare lie.”
“I don’t think you would lie, Dalinar,” Kadash said. “But I do think you can make mistakes. Do not forget that I was there. You are not infallible.”
There? Dalinar thought as Kadash backed up, bowed, then turned and left. What does he remember that I cannot?
Dalinar watched him go. Finally, he shook his head, and went to join the midnight feast, intent on being done with it as soon as was seemly. He needed time with Navani.
His wife.
Chapter 5
Hearthstone
I can point to the moment when I decided for certain this record had to be written. I hung between realms, seeing into Shadesmar—the realm of the spren—and beyond.
—From Oathbringer, preface
Kaladin trudged through a field of quiet rockbuds, fully aware that he was too late to prevent a disaster. His failure pressed down on him with an almost physical sensation, like the weight of a bridge he was forced to carry all on his own.
After so long in the eastern part of the stormlands, he had nearly forgotten the sights of a fertile landscape. Rockbuds here grew almost as big as barrels, with vines as thick as his wrist spilling out and lapping water from the pools on the stone. Fields of vibrant green grass pulled back into burrows before him, easily three feet tall when standing at height. The field was dappled with glowing lifespren, like motes of green dust.
The grass back near the Shattered Plains had barely reached as high as his ankle, and had mostly grown in yellowish patches on the leeward side of hills. He was surprised to find that he distrusted this taller, fuller grass. An ambusher could hide in that, by crouching down and waiting for the grass to rise back up. How had Kaladin never noticed? He’d run through fields like this playing catch-me with his brother, trying to see who was quick enough to grab handfuls of grass before it hid.
Kaladin felt drained. Used up. Four days ago, he’d traveled by Oathgate to the Shattered Plains, then flown to the northwest at speed. Filled to bursting with Stormlight—and carrying a wealth more in gemstones—he’d been determined to reach his home, Hearthstone, before the Everstorm returned.
After just half a day, he’d run out of Stormlight somewhere in Aladar’s princedom. He’d been walking ever since. Perhaps he could have flown all the way to Hearthstone if he’d been more practiced with his powers. As it was, he’d traveled over a thousand miles in half a day, but this last bit—ninety or so miles—had taken an excruciating three days.
He hadn’t beaten the Everstorm. It had arrived earlier in the day around noon.
Kaladin noticed a bit of debris peeking out of the grass, and he trudged toward it. The foliage obligingly pulled back before him, revealing a broken wooden churn, the kind used for turning sow’s milk into butter. Kaladin crouched and rested fingers on the splintered wood, then glanced toward another chunk of wood peeking out over the tops of the grass.
Syl zipped down as a ribbon of light, passing his head and spinning around the length of wood.
“It’s the edge of a roof,” Kaladin said. “The lip that hangs down on the leeward side of a building.” Probably from a storage shed, judging by the other debris.
Alethkar wasn’t in the harshest of the stormlands, but neither was this some soft-skinned Western land. Buildings here were built low and squat, sturdy sides pointed eastward toward the Origin, like the shoulder of a man set and ready to take the force of an impact. Windows would only be on the leeward—the westward—side. Like the grass and the trees, humankind had learned to weather the storms.
That depended on storms always blowing in the same direction. Kaladin had done what he could to prepare the villages and towns he passed for the coming Everstorm, which would blow in the wrong direction and transform parshmen into destructive Voidbringers. Nobody in those towns had possessed working spanreeds, however, and he’d been unable to contact his home.
He hadn’t been fast enough. Earlier today, he’d spent the Everstorm within a tomb he’d hollowed out of rock using his Shardblade—Syl herself, who could manifest as any weapon he desired. In truth, the storm hadn’t been nearly as bad as the one where he’d fought the Assassin in White. But the debris he found here proved that this one had been bad enough.
The mere memory of that red storm outside his hollow made panic rise inside him. The Everstorm was so wrong, so unnatural—like a baby born with no face. Some things just should not be.
He stood up and continued on his way. He had changed uniforms before leaving—his old uniform had been bloodied and tattered. He now wore a spare generic Kholin uniform. It felt wrong not to bear the symbol of Bridge Four.
He crested a hill and spotted a river to his right. Trees sprouted along its banks, hungry for the extra water. That would be Hobble’s Brook. So if he looked directly west…
Hand shading his eyes, he could see hills that had been stripped of grass and rockbuds. They’d soon be slathered with seed-crem, and lavis polyps would start to bud. That hadn’t started yet; this was supposed to be the Weeping. Rain should be falling right now in a constant, gentle shower.
Syl zipped up in front of him, a ribbon of light. “Your eyes are brown again,” she noted.
It took a few hours without summoning his Shardblade. Once he did that, his eyes would bleed to a glassy light blue, almost glowing. Syl found the variation fascinating; Kaladin still hadn’t decided how he felt about it.
“We’re close,” Kaladin said, pointing. “Those fields belong to Hobbleken. We’re maybe two hours from Hearthstone.”
“Then you’ll be home!” Syl said, her ribbon of light spiraling and taking the shape of a young woman in a flowing havah, tight and buttoning above the waist, with safehand covered.
Kaladin grunted, walking down the slope, longing for Stormlight. Being without it now, after holding so much, was an echoing hollowness within him. Was this what it would be like every time he ran dry?
The Everstorm hadn’t recharged his spheres, of course. Neither with Stormlight nor some other energy, which he’d feared might happen.
“Do you like the new dress?” Syl asked, wagging her covered safehand as she stood in the air.
“Looks strange on you.”
“I’ll have you know I put a ton of thought into it. I spent positively hours thinking of just how—Oh! What’s that?”
She turned into a little stormcloud that shot toward a lurg clinging to a stone. She inspected the fist-size amphibian on one side, then the other, before squealing in joy and turning into a perfect imitation of the thing—except pale white-blue. This startled the creature away, and she giggled, zipping back toward Kaladin as a ribbon of light.
“What were we saying?” she asked, forming into a young woman and resting on his shoulder.
“Nothing important.”
“I’m sure I was scolding you. Oh, yes, you’re home! Yay! Aren’t you excited ?”
She didn’t see it—didn’t realize. Sometimes, for all her curiosity, she could be oblivious.
“But… it’s your home…” Syl said. She huddled down. “What’s wrong?”
“The Everstorm, Syl,” Kaladin said. “We were supposed to beat it here.” He’d needed to beat it here.
Surely someone would have survived, right? The fury of the storm, and then the worse fury after? The murderous rampage of servants turned into monsters?
Oh, Stormfather. Why hadn’t he been faster?
He forced himself into a double march again, pack slung over his shoulder. The weight was still heavy, dreadfully so, but he found that he had to know. Had to see.
Someone had to witness what had happened to his home.
The rain resumed about an hour out of Hearthstone, so at least the weather patterns hadn’t been completely ruined. Unfortunately, this meant he had to hike the rest of the way wet. He splashed through puddles where rainspren grew, blue candles with eyes on the very tip.
“It will be all right, Kaladin,” Syl promised from his shoulder. She’d created an umbrella for herself, and still wore the traditional Vorin dress instead of her usual girlish skirt. “You’ll see.”
The sky had darkened by the time he finally crested the last lavis hill and looked down on Hearthstone. He braced himself for the destruction, but it shocked him nonetheless. Some of the buildings he remembered were simply… gone. Others stood without roofs. He couldn’t see the entire town from his vantage, not in the gloom of the Weeping, but many of the structures he could make out were hollow and ruined.
He stood for a long time as night fell. He didn’t spot a glimmer of light in the town. It was empty.
Dead.
A part of him scrunched up inside, huddling into a corner, tired of being whipped so often. He’d embraced his power; he’d taken the path of a Radiant. Why hadn’t it been enough?
His eyes immediately sought out his own home on the outskirts of town. But no. Even if he’d been able to see it in the rainy evening gloom, he didn’t want to go there. Not yet. He couldn’t face the death he might find.
Instead, he rounded Hearthstone on the northwestern side, where a hill led up to the citylord’s manor. The larger rural towns like this served as a kind of hub for the small farming communities around them. Because of that, Hearthstone was cursed with the presence of a lighteyed ruler of some status. Brightlord Roshone, a man whose greedy ways had ruined far more than one life.
Moash… Kaladin thought as he trudged up the hill toward the manor, shivering in the chill and the darkness. He’d have to face his friend’s betrayal—and near assassination of Elhokar—at some point. For now, he had more pressing wounds that needed tending.
The manor was where the town’s parshmen had been kept; they’d have begun their rampage here. He was pretty sure that if he ran across Roshone’s broken corpse, he wouldn’t be too heartbroken.
“Wow,” Syl said. “Gloomspren.”
Kaladin looked up and noted an unusual spren whipping about. Long, grey, like a tattered streamer of cloth in the wind. It wound around him, fluttering. He’d seen its like only once or twice before.
“Why are they so rare?” Kaladin asked. “People feel gloomy all the time.”
“Who knows?” Syl said. “Some spren are common. Some are uncommon.” She tapped his shoulder. “I’m pretty sure one of my aunts liked to hunt these things.”
“Hunt them?” Kaladin asked. “Like, try to spot them?”
“No. Like you hunt greatshells. Can’t remember her name…” Syl cocked her head, oblivious to the fact that rain was falling through her form. “She wasn’t really my aunt. Just an honorspren I referred to that way. What an odd memory.”
“More seems to be coming back to you.”
“The longer I’m with you, the more it happens. Assuming you don’t try to kill me again.” She gave him a sideways look. Though it was dark, she glowed enough for him to make out the expression.
“How often are you going to make me apologize for that?”
“How many times have I done it so far?”
“At least fifty.”
“Liar,” Syl said. “Can’t be more than twenty.”
“I’m sorry.”
Wait. Was that light up ahead?
Kaladin stopped on the path. It was light, coming from the manor house. It flickered unevenly. Fire? Was the manor burning? No, it seemed to be candles or lanterns inside. Someone, it appeared, had survived. Humans or Voidbringers?
He needed to be careful, though as he approached, he found that he didn’t want to be. He wanted to be reckless, angry, destructive. If he found the creatures that had taken his home from him…
“Be ready,” he mumbled to Syl.
He stepped off the pathway, which was kept free of rockbuds and other plants, and crept carefully toward the manor. Light shone between boards that had been pounded across the building’s windows, replacing glass that the Everstorm undoubtedly broke. He was surprised the manor had survived as well as it had. The porch had been ripped free, but the roof remained.
The rain masked other sounds and made it difficult to see much beyond that, but someone, or something, was inside. Shadows moved in front of the lights.
Heart pounding, Kaladin rounded toward the northern side of the building. The servants’ entrance would be here, along with the quarters for the parshmen. An unusual amount of noise came from inside the manor house. Thumping. Motion. Like a nest full of rats.
He had to feel his way through the gardens. The parshmen had been housed in a small structure built in the manor’s shadow, with a single open chamber and benches for sleeping. Kaladin reached it by touch and felt at a large hole ripped in the side.
Scraping came from behind him.
Kaladin spun as the back door of the manor opened, its warped frame grinding against stone. He dove for cover behind a shalebark mound, but light bathed him, cutting through the rain. A lantern.
Kaladin stretched his hand to the side, prepared to summon Syl, yet the person who stepped from the manor was no Voidbringer, but instead a human guardsman in an old helm spotted by rust.
The man held up his lantern. “Here now,” he shouted at Kaladin, fumbling at the mace on his belt. “Here now! You there!” He pulled free the weapon and held it out in a quivering hand. “What are you? Deserter? Come here into the light and let me see you.”
Kaladin stood up warily. He didn’t recognize the soldier—but either someone had survived the Voidbringer assault, or this man was part of an expedition investigating the aftermath. Either way, it was the first hopeful sign Kaladin had seen since arriving.
He held his hands up—he was unarmed save for Syl—and let the guard bully him into the building.
Chapter 6
Four Lifetimes
I thought that I was surely dead. Certainly, some who saw further than I did thought I had fallen.
—From Oathbringer, preface
Kaladin stepped into Roshone’s manor, and his apocalyptic visions of death and loss started to fade as he recognized people. He passed Toravi, one of the town’s many farmers, in the hallway. Kaladin remembered the man as being enormous, with thick shoulders. In actuality, he was shorter than Kaladin by half a hand, and most of Bridge Four could have outmatched him for muscles.
Toravi didn’t seem to recognize Kaladin. The man stepped into a side chamber, which was packed with darkeyes sitting on the floor.
The soldier walked Kaladin along the candlelit hallway. They passed through the kitchens, and Kaladin noted dozens of other familiar faces. The townspeople filled the manor, packing every room. Most sat on the floor in family groups, and while they looked tired and disheveled, they were alive. Had they rebuffed the Voidbringer assault, then?
My parents, Kaladin thought, pushing through a small group of townspeople and moving more quickly. Where were his parents?
“Whoa, there!” said the soldier behind, grabbing Kaladin by the shoulder. He shoved his mace into the small of Kaladin’s back. “Don’t make me down you, son.”
Kaladin turned on the guardsman, a clean-shaven fellow with brown eyes that seemed set a little too close together. That rusted cap was a disgrace.
“Now,” the soldier said, “we’re just going to go find Brightlord Roshone, and you’re going to explain why you were skulking round the place. Act real nice, and maybe he won’t hang you. Understand?”
The townspeople in the kitchens noticed Kaladin finally, and pulled away. Many whispered to one another, eyes wide, fearful. He heard the words “deserter,” “slave brands,” “dangerous.”
Nobody said his name.
“They don’t recognize you?” Syl asked as she walked across a kitchen countertop.
Why would they recognize this man he had become? Kaladin saw himself reflected in a pan hanging beside the brick oven. Long hair with a curl to it, the tips resting against his shoulders. A rough uniform that was a shade too small for him, face bearing a scruffy beard from several weeks without shaving. Soaked and exhausted, he looked like a vagabond.
This wasn’t the homecoming he’d imagined during his first months at war. A glorious reunion where he returned as a hero wearing the knots of a sergeant, his brother delivered safe to his family. In his fancies, people had praised him, slapped him on the back and accepted him.
Idiocy. These people had never treated him or his family with any measure of kindness.
“Let’s go,” the soldier said, shoving him on the shoulder.
Kaladin didn’t move. When the man shoved harder, Kaladin rolled his body with the push, and the shift of weight sent the guard stumbling past him. The man turned, angry. Kaladin met his gaze. The guard hesitated, then took a step back and gripped his mace more firmly.
“Wow,” Syl said, zipping up to Kaladin’s shoulder. “That is quite the glare
you gave.”
“Old sergeant’s trick,” Kaladin whispered, turning and leaving the kitchens. The guard followed behind, barking an order that Kaladin ignored.
Each step through this manor was like walking through a memory. There was the dining nook where he’d confronted Rillir and Laral on the night he’d discovered his father was a thief. This hallway beyond, hung with portraits of people he didn’t know, had been where he’d played as a child. Roshone hadn’t changed the portraits.
He’d have to talk to his parents about Tien. It was why he hadn’t tried to contact them after being freed from slavery. Could he face them? Storms, he hoped they lived. But could he face them?
He heard a moan. Soft, underneath the sounds of people talking, still he picked it out.
“There were wounded?” he asked, turning on his guard.
“Yeah,” the man said. “But—”
Kaladin ignored him and strode down the hallway, Syl flying along beside his head. Kaladin shoved past people, following the sounds of the tormented, and eventually stumbled into the doorway of the parlor. It had been transformed into a surgeon’s triage room, with mats laid out on the floor bearing wounded.
A figure knelt by one of the pallets carefully splinting a broken arm. Kaladin had known as soon as he’d heard those moans of pain where he’d find his father.
Lirin glanced at him. Storms. Kaladin’s father looked weathered, bags underneath his dark brown eyes. The hair was greyer than Kaladin remembered, the face gaunter. But he was the same. Balding, diminutive, thin, bespectacled… and amazing.
“What’s this?” Lirin asked, turning back to his work. “Did the highprince’s house send soldiers already? That was faster than expected. How many did you bring? We can certainly use…” Lirin hesitated, then looked back at Kaladin.
Then his eyes opened wide.
“Hello, Father,” Kaladin said.
The guardsman finally caught up, shouldering past gawking townspeople and waving his mace toward Kaladin like a baton. Kaladin sidestepped absently, then pushed the man so he stumbled farther down the hallway.
“It is you,” Lirin said. Then he scrambled over and caught Kaladin in an embrace. “Oh, Kal. My boy. My little boy. Hesina! HESINA!”
Kaladin’s mother appeared in the doorway a moment later, bearing a tray of freshly boiled bandages. She probably thought that Lirin needed her help with a patient. Taller than her husband by a few fingers, she wore her hair tied back with a kerchief just as Kaladin remembered.
She raised her gloved safehand to her lips, gaping, and the tray slipped down in her other hand, tumbling bandages to the floor. Shockspren, like pale yellow triangles breaking and re-forming, appeared behind her. She dropped the tray and reached to the side of Kaladin’s face with a soft touch. Syl zipped around in a ribbon of light, laughing.
Kaladin couldn’t laugh. Not until it had been said. He took a deep breath, choked on it the first time, then finally forced it out.
“I’m sorry, Father, Mother,” he whispered. “I joined the army to protect him, but I could barely protect myself.” He found himself shaking, and he put his back to the wall, letting himself sink down until he was seated. “I let Tien die. I’m sorry. It’s my fault.…”
“Oh, Kaladin,” Hesina said, kneeling down beside him and pulling him into an embrace. “We got your letter, but over a year ago they told us you had died as well.”
“I should have saved him,” Kaladin whispered.
“You shouldn’t have gone in the first place,” Lirin said. “But now… Almighty, now you’re back.” Lirin stood up, tears leaking down his cheeks. “My son! My son is alive!”
A short time later, Kaladin sat among the wounded, holding a cup of warm soup in his hands. He hadn’t had a hot meal since… when?
“That’s obviously a slave’s brand, Lirin,” a soldier said, speaking with Kaladin’s father near the doorway into the room. “Sas glyph, so it happened here in the princedom. They probably told you he’d died to save you the shame of the truth. And then the shash brand—you don’t get that for mere insubordination.”
Kaladin sipped his soup. His mother knelt beside him, one hand on his shoulder, protective. The soup tasted of home. Boiled vegetable broth with steamed lavis stirred in, spiced as his mother always made it.
He hadn’t spoken much in the half hour since he’d arrived. For now, he just wanted to be here with them.
Strangely, his memories had turned fond. He remembered Tien laughing, brightening the dreariest of days. He remembered hours spent studying medicine with his father, or cleaning with his mother.
Syl hovered before his mother, still wearing her little havah, invisible to everyone but Kaladin. The spren had a perplexed look on her face.
“The wrong-way highstorm did break many of the town’s buildings,” Hesina explained to him softly. “But our home still stands. We had to dedicate your spot to something else, Kal, but we can make space for you.”
Kaladin glanced at the soldier. Captain of Roshone’s guard; Kaladin thought he remembered the man. He almost seemed too pretty to be a soldier, but then, he was lighteyed.
“Don’t worry about that,” Hesina said. “We’ll deal with it, whatever the… trouble is. With all these wounded pouring in from the villages around, Roshone will need your father’s skill. Roshone won’t go making a storm and risk Lirin’s discontent—and you won’t be taken from us again.”
She talked to him as if he were a child.
What a surreal sensation, being back here, being treated like he was still the boy who had left for war five years ago. Three men bearing their son’s name had lived and died in that time. The soldier who had been forged in Amaram’s army. The slave, so bitter and angry. His parents had never met Captain Kaladin, bodyguard to the most powerful man in Roshar.
And then… there was the next man, the man he was becoming. A man who owned the skies and spoke ancient oaths. Five years had passed. And four lifetimes.
“He’s a runaway slave,” the guard captain hissed. “We can’t just ignore that, surgeon. He probably stole the uniform. And even if for some reason he was allowed to hold a spear despite his brands, he’s a deserter. Look at those haunted eyes and tell me you don’t see a man who has done terrible things.”
“He’s my son,” Lirin said. “I’ll buy his writ of slavery. You’re not taking him. Tell Roshone he can either let this slide, or he can go without a surgeon. Unless he assumes Mara can take over after just a few years of apprenticeship.”
Did they think they were speaking softly enough that he couldn’t hear?
Look at the wounded people in this room, Kaladin. You’re missing something.
The wounded… they displayed fractures. Concussions. Very few lacerations. This was not the aftermath of a battle, but of a natural disaster. So what had happened to the Voidbringers? Who had fought them off ?
“Things have gotten better since you left,” Hesina promised Kaladin, squeezing his shoulder. “Roshone isn’t as bad as he once was. I think he feels guilty. We can rebuild, be a family again. And there’s something else you need to know about. We—”
“Hesina,” Lirin said, throwing his hands into the air.
“Yes?”
“Write a letter to the highprince’s administrators,” Lirin said. “Explain the situation; see if we can get a forbearance, or at least an explanation.” He looked to the soldier. “Will that satisfy your master? We can wait upon a higher authority, and in the meantime I can have my son back.”
“We’ll see,” the soldier said, folding his arms. “I’m not sure how much I like the idea of a shash-branded man running around my town.”
Hesina rose to join Lirin. The two had a hushed exchange as the guard settled back against the doorway, pointedly keeping an eye on Kaladin. Did he know how little like a soldier he looked? He didn’t walk like a man acquainted with battle. He stepped too hard, and stood with his knees too straight. There were no dents in his breastplate, and his sword’s scabbard knocked against things as he turned.
Kaladin sipped his soup. Was it any wonder that his parents still thought of him as a child? He’d come in looking ragged and abandoned, then had started sobbing about Tien’s death. Being home brought out the child in him, it seemed.
Perhaps it was time, for once, to stop letting the rain dictate his mood. He couldn’t banish the seed of darkness inside him, but Stormfather, he didn’t need to let it rule him either.
Syl walked up to him in the air. “They’re like I remember them.” “Remember them?” Kaladin whispered. “Syl, you never knew me when
I lived here.”
“That’s true,” she said.
“So how can you remember them?” Kaladin said, frowning.
“Because I do,” Syl said, flitting around him. “Everyone is connected, Kaladin. Everything is connected. I didn’t know you then, but the winds did, and I am of the winds.”
“You’re honorspren.”
“The winds are of Honor,” she said, laughing as if he’d said something ridiculous. “We are kindred blood.”
“You don’t have blood.”
“And you don’t have an imagination, it appears.” She landed in the air before him and became a young woman. “Besides, there was… another voice. Pure, with a song like tapped crystal, distant yet demanding…” She smiled, and zipped away.
Well, the world might have been upended, but Syl was as impenetrable as ever. Kaladin set aside his soup and climbed to his feet. He stretched to one side, then the other, feeling satisfying pops from his joints. He walked toward his parents. Storms, but everyone in this town seemed smaller than he remembered. He hadn’t been that much shorter when he’d left Hearthstone, had he?
A figure stood right outside the room, speaking with the guard with the rusty helmet. Roshone wore a lighteyes’ coat that was several seasons out of fashion—Adolin would have shaken his head at that. The citylord wore a wooden foot on his right leg, and had lost weight since Kaladin had last seen him. His skin drooped on his figure like melted wax, bunching up at his neck.
That said, Roshone had the same imperious bearing, the same angry expression—his light yellow eyes seemed to blame everyone and everything in this insignificant town for his banishment. He’d once lived in Kholinar, but had been involved in the deaths of some citizens—Moash’s grandparents—and had been shipped out here as punishment.
He turned toward Kaladin, lit by candles on the walls. “So, you’re alive. They didn’t teach you to keep yourself in the army, I see. Let me have a look at those brands of yours.” He reached over and held up the hair in front of Kaladin’s forehead. “Storms, boy. What did you do? Hit a lighteyes?”
“Yes,” Kaladin said. Then punched him.
He bashed Roshone right in the face. A solid hit, exactly like Hav had taught him. Thumb outside of his fist, he connected with the first two knuckles of his hand across Roshone’s cheekbone, then followed through to slide across the front of the face. Rarely had he delivered such a perfect punch. It barely even hurt his fist.
Roshone dropped like a felled tree.
“That,” Kaladin said, “was for my friend Moash.”
Oathbringer: The Stormlight Archive Book 3 copyright © 2017 Dragonsteel Entertainment, LLC
Its on…
KALADIN PUNCH!
Typo in the intro you might want to fix – “Starlight” books.
Jasnah! Author of Oathbringer?
Been hitting refresh all morning! WOOT!
holy moly!! only read chapter 4 so far, but storms, this book is good! Brandon Sanderson is the man!!
I think Kaladin and Kelsier would get along famously. With all the hatred for nobles and the punching people…
It sounds like she’s referring to Tien. This is certainly more evidence for all those claiming that there was something special about him.
whoa. not done with chapter 6 yet, but no exageration, it just got dusty over here!!! =*)
Now I’m wondering whether Kal is going to let go of enough of his bitterness and regret to let the brands cease to be part of his self-image so that Stormlight heals them. A healing like that could make a pretty epic scene.
The book is written by Jasnah! That should be interesting…
I only had time to read the first chapter so far, but hah – I think we can make a reasonable case for Jasnah writing the opening letter/manuscript. :)
It’s very like Sanderson to hammer in that they waited until after they were married, ha (not that I mind, to be honest, as I am probably equally as conservative in that area). But at the same time, showing that he’s willing to get a little creative with how he makes those oaths, lol. And definitely some real tension with the religious beliefs of the time – honestly, I’ve wondered sometimes what would happened if there was some obvious cataclysm that seemed to disprove everything I thought I knew. I really don’t think it would be easy to take, and then there’s always the fear that you’re just being manipulated/led astray. So I think it is a realistic conflict, at any rate (even if we more or less ‘know’ Dalinar is the one telling the truth).
And, I think there were some tantalizing hints to Dalinar’s past here as well as the person he used to be.
Initial thoughts as I read:
Chapter 4
Re: the Preface. Still could be dictated by Dalinar, but maybe Jasnah? Because, why would women in particular view Dalinar as a godless heretic? I’m going to hold to Dalinar for now.
The conversation with Navani goes back to heresy and Navani reminds him “I’m not the one telling everyone God is dead.” So, Dalinar as Godless heretic shortly after mentioning it in the preface to Oathbringer.
A lot of copy errors on this post. about half of the Stormfather’s dialogue is not italicized properly. Makes it difficult to read.
I really like the way this chapter ended. It heightens anticipation for Dalinar’s backstory.
Chapter 5
Chapter heading: Aw crap. leaning towards Jasnah now.
So, Kaladin did choose to travel by Oathgate back to the SPs first, then fly to Hearthstone. That was what made sense to me. Don’t know how it figures into Bridge Four and their powers yet.
Not much else to talk about in that chapter. All set up, no payoff.
Chapter 6
Chapter heading. Ok, strongly leaning towards Jasnah now. Why would she name the book Oathbringer? Because its going to be about Dalinar?
Very moving reunion. Maybe Kaladin will be able to let go of some of his guilt.
Aaaaaand, a satisfying, yet stupid ending to the chapter. How very Kaladin.
Kaladin pullin a Kaladin over here. *facepalm*
@3: Typo corrected. WordPress has a *very* sneaky autocorrect, sometimes…
Ok, so timeline of events. I now think this is what happened regarding Bridge Four’s ability to Invest Stormlight:
• Kal finally says his oaths, and defends the King (This is what triggers his ability to have “squires”).
• Kal hides the King with Lopen’s family.
• Kal flies to defend Dalinar and fight Szeth
• The Army travels via Oathgate to Urithiru.
• Kal continues to fight Szeth as the Highstorm and the Everstorm leave the SPs.
• Army scribes communicate by spanreed to get everyone from camps moving to SPs Oathgate and eventually Uritiru.
• Lopen Invests stormlight and begins to heal himself.
• Kaladin finally defeats Szeth and flies back to the Oathgate.
• This is all within two hours or maybe half a day of when the Army travels to Urithiru
• Kaladin travels to Urithiru with Bridge Four
• Lopen loses ability to Invest when Kaladin does this.
• Kaladin has his initial conversation with Dalinar and Shallan.
• Over the next five days, the rest of Bridge Four begin to demonstrate Investiture abilities.
• Kaladin has the conversation with Dalinar explaining he needs to go home and warn his parents.
• Kaladin leaves via Oathgate.
• The rest of Bridge Four lose their ability to Invest.
Mod@14:
There’s a bunch of words the Stormfather speaks into Dalinar’s mind in Chapter 4 that aren’t italicized either.
huh. Seems like Dalinar might Actually have killed his own wife.
@17:
I didn’t get that from the chapters… can you unpack that a bit? I got that she was used as leverage against him, killed, and Dalinar went on a rampage afterwords.
EDIT: I can see where you are inferring that, after rereading it. Since he can’t remember the specific “mistake” he made that Kadesh refers to, it must touch upon his dead wife. But I don’t think that means he killed her, as much as its that a decision of his got her killed. And then he gave himself over wholly to the Thrill.
Finished the other two – I can’t say it wasn’t satisfying but man, I hope it doesn’t cause more trouble (and his parents more grief). Even the brand enough is making me uncomfortable, since nobody would believe that he’s actually Dalinar’s bodyguard.
Other than that, these two chapters were so sad. :( Even the reunion itself made me a little sad, if only because I’m worried that there’s just going to be more trouble to follow.
@17 – while I’m leaning towards that as well, I think theoretically 16 could be a possibility if he thought perhaps she had betrayed him. It’s possible Dalinar is still misrembering things and just assumes that it had to do with somebody taking his wife from him. All we know is (assuming they are connected, which is how I read it) that Dalinar did something so horrible that his friend became an ardent the next day.
I also was thinking Dalinar might have killed his wife, or done something incredibly stupid to cause her death. It would explain why he’d want to lose all memory of her (and would fit his character more than doing it solely for a broken heart). I think his memory of Kadash on the battlefield definitely hints that something was off about when his wife was killed. The memory is blurry, but there, so it probably didn’t directly involve his wife but was strongly linked. And whatever happened must have been truly terrible for Kadash to give up being a soldier altogether. Last week’s previews showed that the Dalinar/Sadeas duo could be downright cruel and bloodthirsty, so obviously Kadash had seen a lot of messed up things but this put him over the edge. It could just be that Dalinar’s reaction to his wife’s death was over the top, but I’m leaning towards his reaction to her kidnapping potentially leading to her death.
@19:
Shardbearers are automatically Lighteyes of the fourth dahn. All he has to do is produce Syl, and he outranks everyone in that town, slave brand or not. Not to mention, it will make his eyes turn blue. And his writ of pardon is with the scribes in Kholinar, so it would get cleared up eventually, regardless.
WOW! That was awesome,
So many emotions packed into a couple of chapters:
Concern for the world facing a desolation
Joy for Dalinar and Navani getting married
Apprehension over the upcoming conflict between Dalinar and the Vorin Church
Anticipation over learning more about Dalinar’s past (it does seem somewhat similar to Shallan not being able to remember the climax of her backstory, even if the memory loss is for a different reason)
Sympathy for Kaladin failing to get to Hearthstone in time
Hope that their is still people alive
Elation at seeing his parents alive
Grief/Sorrow for him telling his parents about Tien
Joy turns to Sadness turns to Joy with his parents reaction and hugging him (I may or may not have teared up a bit here:)
Laugh Out Loud at Kaladin hitting Roshone
Angst about what is going to happen now to Kaladin with the slave brand, deserter look, and having hit a light eyes.
I loved it, it is both awesome to savor this as well as torture to have to wait until next week to read on.
SANDERSOOOOOOOOOONNNN!!!!!!
My guess: Dalinar has it wrong about knowing his boon and curse. His boon wasn’t to forget his wife. His boon was to forget whatever “The Rift. Rathalas.” means. Whatever happened that day, he wanted to forget it. His curse was forgetting his wife. I’m also guessing he thinks Renarin’s disability is his curse, but I’m less confident in that one.
Other thoughts:
I was so there for that punch. I know it’ll cause problems, but it was still so satisfying. I’m also not too concerned for Kaladin since he has so many advantages over those soldiers that he won’t have any trouble getting away from them if it comes to that. I guess he could’ve worked on his tact a bit, but hey, one step at a time right?
Definitely seems like Jasnah’s our author for in world Oathbringer. That’s pretty cool, I’m hoping it gives us some more insight into Shadesmar, especially if it takes forever to get another POV from her.
Sexually frustrated Navani cracks me up. I’m also curious what other oaths she’s broken. I feel like that might be significant. Or maybe just like she promised Elhokar to help him with math homework that one time and then forgot, you never know with these books.
@22 – I know the writ of pardon exists, but it doesn’t help if they hang him first (not that I think they actually could…). I doubt they’d even believe it exists.
However, I did forget about the Shardblade automatically giving him rank so that could be a solution. Realistically I doubt anybody in that town could do anything to him, but they might still cause trouble for his parents (although Lirin does seem to have a bit more leverage now).
Do not have the time to read neither the chapters nor the comments now, they have to wait until I finish my workday, but I could not resist to skip them over with my eyes and found the family reunion. Just so … beautiful. Oh, Kal, honey, you deserve it.
All the rest of my thoughts and emotions have to wait for a few hours, twitchy as my fingers might be to already get to it.
One thing… it seems like the Everstorm has messed up the cycle of highstorms. Are we supposed to actually believe that the highstorms may not come again? That would put a crimp in refounding the Knights Radiant, since other than Lift, they are reliant on the Stormlight that only comes during highstorms to use their powers.
Aw man that was awesome. I came here thinking I’d be getting one new chapter, but instead I got three! And Kaladin’s viewpoint!
Most of what I was going to say has already been said, but I don’t think anyone has noticed….. that Kaladin has another sibling?!! One that was born AFTER HE LEFT?!
I’m inferring this from the fact his room has been used for something else and his mother was going to tell him something important before Lirin called her away.
But, wow. How’s that conversation gonna go down? It’s just… that’s going to be quite the shock. He might just be stunned, or he might take it the wrong way. I hope we get more of his POV next week too!
ah it’s a week awaaaay………..
But I’m loving reading these chapters ahead of time! Thanks Sanderson and Tor!
Chapter 4 comments:
JFC, Dalinar. I guess the Blackthorn isn’t the kind to do things by halves, but getting the Stormfather to marry you? That’s Vorkosigan levels of overdoing it.
Would the Stormfather have recognized Wit? It would have been a nice call back for him to go “YOU!” at Hoid.
Speaking of which, I guess he crossed a few dozen lines avenging Shshsh if he drove a hardened soldier–from his own retinue no less–to the ardentia. I like a good revenge story as much as the next guy but I think that flashback is going to be as unpleasant as any of Shallan’s.
I am glad that Dalinar finally told Navani about not remembering his wife. That has been hanging over their interactions with me, especially going into marriage it is good to have everything out on the table, instead of secrets. Also, the Stormfather marrying them? I did not see that coming, but it was a nice way to solve the dilemma of their marriage.
As far as Kaladin’s chapters….it was great that he was reunited with his parents, but I wish he hadn’t hit Roshone. It might have been satisfying in the moment, but it shows he still has some growing up to do if he thinks that a display of violence is the best option. Also, it will make the rest of his purpose in coming back to Hearthstone harder.
@29:
I caught that as a possibility. Maybe some healing for losing Tien.
@31:
I’m not sure he has any purpose left in coming to Hearthstone. He was trying to get there before the Everstorm to warn them about the Parshmen. I’m not sure there’s any purpose left, other than gathering up information about what happened. Which is STILL being withheld from us!
Question.
Why Kal had a scuffy beard for weeks without shaving, if he only flew for 4 days ?
“A rough uniform that was a shade too small for him, face bearing a scruffy beard from several weeks without shaving.”
@34
I think he just hasn’t shaved since… the duel? He was in jail after that and definitely not in the best place. Then he saved Elhokar (and Syl), flew of to Narak, and took the Oathgate to Urithiru. Being Kaladin, he probably didn’t think it important to shave while there. So, correct me if I’m wrong, but he hasn’t shaved since before he got thrown in jail
Is it me, or is Dalinar poised to create a splinter sect of Vorinism? One that reveres him as a prophet and possibly worships the God Beyond?
Ha! Kaladin and his focus on the perfect punch! Great way to end this segment. I need to read this again.
That was so good. I want the next Kaladin chapter now. Next Tuesday has never seemed like a such long way off.
@@@@@stormbrother I’m also guessing Jasnah is the author of Oathbringer.
Dalinar’s boon and curse. Forgetting ‘Rathalas’ and losing memories of his wife? I originally assumed he wanted to lose memories of his wife as they were too painful; but now I’m not so sure.
These were great! I have no time to write anything lengthy, but here are my comments in no specific order:
– I did not expect the wedding. Brandon said he would show us a traditional Alethi wedding, well this definitely wasn’t one. So my hopes are high for another wedding sometimes in between now and book 5.
– Elhokar’s reaction was the most interesting. He is not happy. He claims he has to learn how to take what he wants, which he says is the lesson Dalinar left for him. I do not see him going down a good path, not after this commentary. People have argued Adolin would follow the Blackthorn’s path, I don’t believe it one second, but Elhokar? I sensed danger here. And he has been resting a tad too much! So I was partially right.
– Adolin and Renarin’s reaction was adorable, from Adolin’s whoop to Renarin’s wide grin: the boys are happy. I noted how Dalinar expected Adolin to react with awe and he did.
– Dalinar is messing up with the Church: this was expected. I foresee conflicts.
– Shshsh was abducted and murdered… Woh. Considering neither Adolin nor Renarin seems to have been affected by her death, I always took it she died of a long sickness, but now we find out she was brutally murdered? And Kadash? New leading theory: in trying to rescue her, Dalinar feel into the Thrill so badly he killed everyone around, women, children and yes, even his wife which he only noticed after the madness passed. This is why Kadash quit the army and this is the reason why Dalinar sought the Nightwatcher. I have read The Thrill: it has been at the back of my head for a while now. This being said, how come the boys show absolutely no sign of trauma from having their mother being murdered? I mean, this is BIG.
– Kaladin going back home. It was so sweet and perfect. Oh how I hated theories wanting Kaladin to depressed upon seeing his parents, to seek them across Alethkar: this is SO MUCH better. They take him in, treat him like their boy. Lirin wants to buy his slavery: this was ADORABLE and I will not have anyone say the opposite. I went hooooooooon the whole time and Kaladin was HAPPY. Smiling. Thinking of Tien positively. Oh might this was great. Also what is it Hesina wants Kaladin to see? A sibling? I called it years ago, I am keen to see if I were right. This was perfect, THANK YOU Brandon for writing it this way and not how so many readers thought you would. I am pumped for Kaladin now whereas I wasn’t before.
– Top ten signs you have hanged out with Adolin a tad too much: You are able to notice Roshone’s short coat is several seasons out of fashion. Really Kaladin? Really??? You noticed THIS among all things? You haven’t just peeked at those magazines: you storming read them! It cracked me up. I mean KALADIN commenting on FASHION?
– THA Punch.
Great chapters this week, I want more :-(
@35:
Not since the duel, since his injuries against the Chasmfiend. He becomes deeply depressed during his convalescence. So, two days in the chasms, eight days in his bed, five days in Urithiru, without access to things like razors, 4 days traveling. That’s 19 days since his last shave, likely.
I’m going to need to read 6 again but that punch. So much feels but such a dumb thing to do. His next chapter pretty has to start with him wielding Syl and pulling rank.
Note to self: never give Kal a straight line.
Since men don’t traditionally write in Vorin culture (beyond glyphs) I never even credited that Oathbringer could have been written by Dalinar, although I do believe that he is the subject.
Kaladin decking Roshone was immensely satisfying and as others have already pointed out summoning Syl as a shardblade is his instant get out of jail free card – though this isn’t very honourable, though hopefully not enough to damage their bond. I really don’t want to go through all the emo Kaladin malarkey again…
@42:
The conversation was whether Dalinar was dictating it or not, not whether he was physically writing it.
Tor is determined to drive me to desperate insanity….Why is it that every third chapter has the worst stopping point ever?
Also…Kaladin being Kaladin. Makes me want to hug him and knock his head against the wall all at the same time.
I keep telling myself that I’m not gonna read these chapters every week, but wait until the book is released.
And yet, here I am!
@33 I meant the purpose of helping his parents out, especially in regards to their position with Roshone, which was not very good when Kaladin left for the army. (Not that he said this was his purpose outright, but of course he didn’t just want to drop in on his parents and tell them that the Everstorm was coming and then skip on out). Also, if he is going to convince everyone that the everstorm is not a one time occurrence but a regular devestation that will come through, not having put everyone’s hackles up first (except for his parents) by punching out their high lord would be good. And everyone there already thinks of him as young and brash and a dangerous deserter (even his father isn’t disputing his brands, he’s just willing to buy them off anyway). This won’t help that image. Of course, Kaladin has an ace up his sleeve in the form of Syl and being able to become a light eyes of the fourth dan at will, so that should go a long ways in helping sort the situation out.
@29: Wow! You got that from the chapter? I guess we’ll find out in a week or two if you are right.
@34: Anthony beat me to the point, @40. Kaladin didn’t have Rock around to shave him during the Weeping, nor did he have the energy thanks to depression.
@anthony, dude! You are on fire with all your comments. :-D
Small detail, but I love the description of the wedding refinery. I want a picture of a bridal crown. I’m already married, but nothing says you can’t wear a crown when you want to. As long as you are not hanging out with real royalty.
@30: Vorkosigan level of overkill indeed. :-D
Have to run, so quickly:
Whew, “Oathbringer” was/will be written by Jasnah! I guess that she is the character whose PoVs only appear towards the end of the book, but we’ll learn some stuff about her adventures and insights from the epigraphs.
Elokhar’s answer to Dalinar was quite perceptive, though the idea of grabbing what one wants in imitation could easily lead him to the darkside.
Lack of storms is very concerning, since if Odium manages to stop them or even decrease their frequency, it will make the Radiants relatively powerless. Is it the second and/or perhaps even the main purpose of the Everstorm? Hopefully, Stormfather manages to re-start them somehow.
And wow, there was something very tragic about the death of Dalinar’s wife, which, as we now know, was violent. Didn’t expect that – thought that it was the usual childbirth/illness. And, I guess that Dalinar slaughtered everybody in her vicinity with such extreme prejudice, that it made Kadash sick and prompted him become a man of the cloth (so to speak).
I have to say that I think less of Dalinar for making it all the way to the Nightwatcher and asking for a memory wipe instead of healing for Renarin (which I previously thought that his visit was about). Though, no doubt, whatever happened was awful and his wife’s death is probably partly his fault, in some way. His poor sons… I wonder if that’s why Adolin started his sword training so early (for Roshar), so that he could defend Renarin (and himself).
Kaladin punch feels good, but it will probably turn out to be a mistake, in the sense that Roshone will be in position to take revenge on the witnesses/ sabotage directives that could protect the people of Hearthstone out of spite once Kaladin leaves. He may try to take his parents away to prevent Roshone taking his revenge on them, but will they go? I doubt it. An evil cliffhanger to stop on, regardless, but then, they all are, sigh.
@42 He made no promise to protect Roshone. Syl should be okay with it.
@44 As I recall from WoR, it’s pretty deliberate.
I think Dalinar’s vengeance somehow goes beyond kill them all down to the last and least. Maybe I’m jaded but I don’t think a simple massacre would be awful enough.
@39 Gepeto – it’s possible we may yet see Dalinar’s wedding to Shshshsh in a flashback sequence as well. I’m sure that would have been done as a very traditional ceremony, but it’s hard to say! And yes, wholeheartedly agree re: Elhokar. This does not bode well for his character at all! I wonder if he will reach out to Kaladin for more leadership advice, or if he will descend into a dark place…
I think that people are forgetting the timeline of the weeping. By my count there should still be about a week until the next high storm as of the end of chapter 6. It’s two weeks of rain then light day then two more weeks of rain. But it would be funny if they had to resort to force feeding Lift and having her fill gemstones with stormlight.
@51:
I think the concern is that its stopped raining. Or that it isn’t doing what it usually does, and the Everstorm has permanently altered the weather patterns. Obviously the storms are “magical” in that they don’t operate the way storms do here on Earth, but they are still being caused by natural forces on Roshar. And we don’t know to what extent the natural forces on Roshar are being unbalanced due to the Everstorm.
What’s all these? We need the full book. NOW.
@47:
Tuesdays are a light day for me in the morning. Works out well! haven’t been this active around here since Leigh wrapped up the Re-read.
@39:
I assume the death of Dalinar’s wife occured when they were young. They may not remember their mother very well, which would lessen the trauma associated with it.
@51
Pretty sure Lift would not be put out at all the food being available, only that she wouldn’t have to steal it! Considering her self-reflection and emotional growth towards the end of Edgedancer, she may not be quite so put out about not having to steal it though.
@51, 55 – Just tell Lift that all the food being stored in Kholinar is actually the Queen’s dinner. Then she’ll go in and steal it, no problem.
@40 and @47:
Thanks for the correction! It seems I am in dire need of another reread of WoR. Not that I mind! An amazing book to analyze while anxiously awaiting next Tuesday will definitely be appreciated.
@47:
I sure hope we find out next week! I’m really looking forward to meeting this new … Does Kaladin have a last name? I just went looking for it but storms help me, I couldn’t find one. I think it’s just ‘son of Lirin’ but that won’t work if this mysterious sibling is of the female variety. Or maybe it still would. I’m going off on a tangent, aren’t I?
Put simply, I want to see this sibling of Kaladin.
@51: This storm was the Everstorm, the one brought by the Parshindi. The one that Lift experienced in Edgedancer.
The Highstorm, has not returned yet. Highstorms have stormlight. We are not sure if Everstorms have them. Based on Kaladin being without light now, the answer is “no.”
Speaking of siblings (which I didn’t even catch as a possibility) when Kaladin thought ‘Three men bearing their son’s name had lived and died in that time’ for some reason I didn’t quite catch that he was speaking figuratively for a few seconds and was all, “Huh? His parents had a bunch of replacement Kaladins that kept dying?”
It’s early, okay?
Hmmm …. So Kaladin threw a Chinese styled punch at Roshone … cool! Maybe his spear work (sounds like from what I’ve read previously) is Chinese/Asian at least.
hey what about those rate spren (gloomspren) that honor spre like to hunt, could they be evil or mabe be one of the nine spren that serve ofium.
Why is every one assuming another sibling, it could be just an apprentice from the village that he has taken on
@58 Dalinar notes the Everstorm doesn’t fill gems. So it’s a solid “no.”
If Dalinar did kill his wife (directly and not by screwing up a hostage scenario) and now he’s married to his sister (technically) and he’s usurped his nephew, then his story arc is starting to look a little Greek. Which would not be good for his long-term prospects.
Sorry for the spelling mistakes, i believe that kaladin is going to fight a voidbringer in that town, maybe that gloomspren is going to bond a parshmen…
@22
i think 22 has it right Kaldins parents have nothing to worry about, I suppose Roshone might think that he obtained a shard blade illegally -like by murdering a shardbearer in an alley. But even then, when Kaladin is gone Roshone will be so afraid of retribution there is no way he is going to retaliate.
@49 actually did make an oath to protect Roshone “I will protect even those I hate so long as it is right”
But I don’t think that protect means to protect from all pain or discomfort, I think that it is more protecting life. Assuming that a single punch to the face is not enough to endanger Roshone’s life or long term well being, I don’t think this counts as a violation of Kaladin’s oath.
@42 and @54: Shshshsh died ten years ago which means Adolin was about 13 years old. Therefore, no he can’t have started training early because of her death: it was something else. Whether or not it will be broach within the book is yet to be seen.
And yes, both boys were old enough to remember their mother. Adolin especially ought to have a reaction to knowing his mother was murdered: the fact there seems to be none is highly suspicious.
@50: I have said for the longest time how I couldn’t see Elhokar as Radiant, no matter what it is he views into the mirror. I have always thought his weaknesses were too strong and the temptation to take over what he feels belongs to him will be too strong. I never read him within the right mind frame to evolve much differently, but we’ll see.
I had another wedding in mind, but maybe.
Kaladin and the Punch: I loved it. I don’t care if it was honorable or not: it was great. Way to go Kaladin and I feared you were becoming too goodie-two-shoes.
Dalinar and Wife: He did admit it: the fandom most well guarded secret. Dalinar did not love his wife. He did not marry her out of love, his was an arranged wedding, maybe not unpleasant, but likely not overly happy. Finally, we can say it.
@62
I hadn’t thought of that! It would work, especially with Lirin’s mention of Mara, who seems to be a new apprentice, and who couldn’t b Kaladin’s sibling, since she would have been too young based on how long Kaladin was gone to have been an apprentice for a few years.
Source: Lirin to guard captain, “unless he assumes Mara can take over after only a few years of apprenticeship.”
This is looking more likely than a sibling. Still exciting, though! More room for Kaladin to dislike this Mara.
@66:
Huh? Dalinar can’t remember his wife, or if he loved her or not. It being an arranged marriage has nothing to do with it. Many arranged marriages end in deeply held and mutual love and affection. Navani, at least, seems to think he loved his wife deeply, and she was around them and knew them both well, and most importantly, remembers both of them.
@65 He didn’t specifically agree to protect Roshone the way he did the king. I think that makes a difference.
Do we know when Dalinar started drinking? Or when he sought the Old Magic?
@67:
They had two children. Did Tien and Kaladin share a room? I don’t think we can assume having an apprentice means they couldn’t have also had a child, and I don’t see why telling Kaladin about an apprentice would be a big deal to his mother.
@69:
Someone said 10 years ago in the comment (for seeing the Nightwatcher), but I don’t remember that from the text if so.
I understand assuming that the Everstorm doesn’t have stormlight since it hasn’t infused spheres yet… but it’s the middle of the weeping right? there are no Highstorms and no stormlight anyway, so we don’t know 100% if when those return, maybe the Everstorms will be stronger and maybe carry stormlight
“Who knows?” Syl said. “Some spren are common. Some are uncommon.” She tapped his shoulder. “I’m pretty sure one of my aunts liked to hunt these things.”
“Hunt them?” Kaladin asked. “Like, try to spot them?”
“No. Like you hunt greatshells. Can’t remember her name…” Syl cocked her head, oblivious to the fact that rain was falling through her form. “She wasn’t really my aunt. Just an honorspren I referred to that way. What an odd memory.”
Syl’s Aunt? Another Nahel-bonding spren? Or if the Stormfather is her father, maybe her Aunt is the Nightwatcher?
And then this bit from Syl:
“Besides, there was… another voice. Pure, with a song like tapped crystal, distant yet demanding…”
Something to do with Cultivation maybe?
@70
I’m not sure about them sharing a room, though it seems likely. I see your point about having both a new child and an apprentice, though I think Sanderson wouldn’t spring TWO new members to the Lirin household on Kaladin. I think it would just be too much.
As to telling him about it being a big deal to his mother, I think it makes sense. If she thought he was dead, she most likely treated the apprentice and/or child as a way to fill the void in her life, so now that he has returned, she will have to tell him, “Yeah, we thought you died, so we got a new apprentice to replace you,” or “Yeah, we thought you and Tien were dead, and we had a baby. It wasn’t to replace you!” But Kaladin will be like, yeah you were replacing us. Or if it is both, she has to say, “You and Tien died, so Lirin needed an apprentice to help out, especially with the new baby.” Awkward. Especially when the son she is telling this loved his younger brother enough to join the army with him, but failed to save him, and consequently became a talented, violent, surgeon-soldier.
Though, Hesina is good with words, so she will probably find a much smoother way to explain the situation to Kaladin. And I kno I simplified the dialogue samples a ton. But still. Awkward.
so if the everstorm came to urithiru, did it change rlain/shen?
Yes, I was hoping this Kaladin chapter would be in this batch!
I’m kind of surprised that no one is talking about this sentence yet “Dalinar’s new guards sagged, looking suddenly exhausted.”
Do we know if bondsmiths have squires? Or what would cause this to happen?
@68: “You are the woman I love,” Dalinar said, pulling her tight. “A woman I have always loved.”
…
“When I married last,” Dalinar said softly, “I did many things wrong.”
“I started wrong.”
…
“Navani, maybe I did grow to love her. I can’t remember.”
Doesn’t look like he loved her after all… He loved Navani, all along: remembers this. My thoughts are he hopes he did come to love her, but it may be the answer is not. He doesn’t agree with his former decision to marry a foreigner in exchange for a Shardblade.
Will this be relevant within the future narrative?
Also, the Stormfather implies Navani broke her oaths, which oaths? Was she unfaithful on Gavilar?
Retrospective on Kadash: He had to quit soldering a long time enough ago to move up into the Ardentia’s ladder in order to tutor young Adolin. The timing does not seem to right.
More on Kadash: Will he betray Dalinar? People have wondered if the writ giving Adolin the ability to dispose of Dalinar will come into play once again. Will Kadash be the one to try to manipulate Adolin into doing it? Will he tell the son the truth about his mother hoping to steer him against the father?
On Kaladin and the potentially new sibling: I think it will be a HAPPY news. Kaladin will be pleased and thrilled, not annoyed nor jealous. He will love this sibling and bless the Almighty for giving him a second chance at happiness. I will not accept any other family related denouement. While being on the matter: boy or girl?
We haven’t seen any changes parshmen yet, and characters keep wondering why the haven’t seen signs of them or their attacks after the storm.
I think it’s going to be less simple then “the everstorm changes them” Could it happen gradually so that the people trust them again? Or do they travel with the storm? (We see red eyes within the storm)
I can’t wait for the next 3 chapters!
@73:
She specifically refers to the “aunt” in question as honorspren. Unless Syl is wrong in applying this appellation, and we have no reason to assume she is, that would rule out the aunt being the Night watcher, who is a splinter of Cultivation.
@78:
“A woman” I have always loved. Not “The woman” I have always loved. He then emphasized that he can’t remember if he grew to love her or not.
Regarding Kadesh, we actually have no idea WHAT it takes to climb up the “ladders of ardentia”, so I can’t really comment on that. But he trained Adolin (at least until Zahel took over) because Dalinar chose him to. He bought Kadesh. He owns him. Most likely for that specific purpose.
@75 – The everstorm was low enough in the sky that its top didn’t reach Urithiru, hence the chains to lower spheres into the storm. I’d assume Rlain is unchanged.
Mwahahahaha!
I find that we have reached a point in the discussion where I can’t respond to anything said here… I’m just commenting to get it in my conversations.
Carry on.
“inserts evil Alice laugh here”
@@@@@80. Anthony Pero Good point. It’s right there in the paragraph I quoted, yet I missed it.
2nd Guess: His dad bonded an Honor spren as well (Syl’s “Aunt”). He is a protector after all. And it would make that scene where he contemplates letting Roshone bleed out all the more poignant.
@83 Small but significant ways.
@@@@@83. Wetlandernw
Just tell us one thing: will the other Radiants capture and enslave Lift, force feed her via IV, and suck her dry of her Awesomeness in order to make up for their Stormlight deficit?
@87
Wow, that would be a completely different book, wouldn’t it?
@87, 88 – In the name of all that is holy don’t suggest that to Taravangian.
@@@@@88. Anthony Pero
Stormlight Archive: Fury Road.
Dan Wells might like to write it, lol.
There, this should hopefully clear up whether or not Navani is serious. Elkohar got a single Glorypren when beating Dalinar to the top of the hill, Dalinar got “Gloryspren?” over his head. She’s ringed by them. Aww, happy Navani. I’m pretty sure I popped a gloryspren there as well.
This reminds me of the sullen grass…
Good to know, but I don’t know what to make of this yet. At least it’s comforting to know that our Radiants won’t suddenly start burning kryptonite, allomantically speaking.
@Dalinar and the reason for his wife’s death: I lean far more towards one of his decisions leading to her death. If she was a hostage, maybe he was asked to stay clear, but maybe he was in the grasp of the Thrill already and couldn’t stop himself? It’d fit in with him being so adamant about not giving up control.
Also, I think that maybe the ability to control himself might have been what he asked of the Nightwatcher? It’s just a wild guess.
Yub – Elkohar is just stepping on the slippery slope towards villain-ness here, or isn’t he? GAH! SANDERSON!
@Roshone’s outfashioned coat: Adolin sure is rubbing off! “Ooh, fashion is such nonsense! Adolin is sooo superificous!” *judges people by their outfit like a big old hypocrite* It had me in stitches :D
It is possible that Bridge 4 has lost their powers because Kaladin is tapped out of Stormlight. He tapped out several days ago. That is just as plausible as the distance.
@17:
I agree. I am wondering if there is some sort of parallel to the Rhaegar and Lyanna story from Game of Thrones.
Dalinar thinks his wife has been captured but she has really left him for another man. In the heat of the thrill he kills them both which is why he wants her purged from his memory. (I still lean towards him forgetting her being his boon and us not knowing his curse yet)
@93: It’s possible. But logically, him being out of Stormlight is the same as him not INVESTING Stormlight even if his spheres aren’t dun. That would mean his squires would ONLY be able to invest when he was invested.
I personally see Elhokar becoming a Dustbringer. He’s already developing a complex about ruining everything he touches.
Syl has said that she is the only honorspren to have crossed over to bond. So no others exist. This does make me all the more certain that Kaladin will be Roshar’s Champion.
The Vorin Church having problems with Dalinar was not something I had thought about. Although I can see Odium playing the Vorin Church. “Look at me. I am God. Do as I say.” I could see Odium playing them and getting one of them to be his Champion. Someone like, Kadash, for example?
at the risk of Alice and company laughing at me, i would think Dalinar made some mistake that led directly to his wife’s death, and his sons blamed him. he therefore went to the nightwatcher and asked her for a boon…to make the boys forget that he killed her and leqve them with sadness, not anger, at her passing. the nightwatcher granted it, then cursed him with forgetting her as well.
@@@@@97. Mosey121
Ever since I read the theory that Adolin will be Odium’s champion I’ve felt like that’s probably where we’re headed. He’s the greatest duelist we’ve encountered. He just did something that possibly put him on a dark path. The bit about Odium’s champion’s eyes seeming familiar to Dalinar. Lastly, that’s the kind of thing Sanderson would set up: a duel between Kaladin and Adolin with the fate of the world in the balance.
I hope not–I like Adolin a lot–but I fear that’s his future.
One of the most shocking parts of these chapters was Navani’s uncovered safe hand! And with red nail polish, no less. It seems very scandalous.
When Dalinar was going down the list of ardents who wouldn’t marry him and Navani, I thought of Zahel. I have a feeling he’d have no problem with it. But the Stormfather is even better. It was extremely cool when he revealed himself to everyone in attendance.
Speaking of the Stormfather, I’ve always thought he was a bit of a drama queen, and Dalinar confirms that thought by commenting on his “childish petulance.” I love it. All the sprens’ varied personalities are some of my favorite parts of the books.
When I read this line – Lirin stood up, tears leaking down his cheeks. “My son! My son is alive!” – I literally jumped up and down in my chair and yelled “yay, yay!” I cannot imagine anything better for Lirin and Kaladin’s reunion. And I also thought there must be a new little sibling for Kal. I don’t think he will be hurt or jealous, I think he’ll be thrilled about it. Can’t wait to find out.
Edit: OMG, I got the “hunny!” I’ve spent the last four months making my way through the Wheel of Times rereads, so it feels extra special. I feel like I’m in the cool kids club! :-)
ARRGH! this is such torture, having to wait until next week
Another typo: “Had they rebuff d the Voidbringer assualt”
@artemis
Congrats on the Hunny, welcome to the club.
Given what we know of the Thrill, I really don’t see it being too much of a stretch to imagine a hostage situation where Dalinar, flush with battle lust, faces down a man holding a knife to Shshsh‘s throat … and swings anyways, killing hostage and kidnapper alike.
In that scenario, couldn’t you see Dalinar turning to drink once the Thrill faded? Can’t you imagine the soldier forced to keep that secret turning to the ardentia? Wouldn’t it make sense for Dalinar’s sons to only know what really happened?
@100 – Congrats and welcome to the bunker. Please headdesk a few times in order to settle in fully. Thanks. The Management.
@67 I wouldn’t be too surprised if Lirin had been training her since birth. Maybe he was desperate to produce a surgeon after both his sons left and so he gave his infant daughter a scalpel and started teaching. So now we have Mara, the (at most) four and a half year old sergeon. But he kept her training secret the first few years and got her to pretend to be bad. He accidentally slipped and said that she had been trained for “a few years” when he should have said “a couple of years”.
@96 Songstream
I think Elhokar is going to become a Cryptic. The figures he describes seeing are similar to how Shallan described them.
“They watch me. Always. Waiting. I see their faces in mirrors. Symbols, twisted, inhuman …”
@99 Werechull
I like Adolin too. I’ve never bought the whole “Adolin will become evil” bit. I just don’t think it’ll happen as it seems like a stretch to me. But I’ve been wrong before, it’s happened on occasion.
FSS @98 – I will never laugh at anyone’s speculation on Dalinar’s request, boon, or curse. I will say only that I was surprised by the way it played out, because it wasn’t quite what I was expecting… so I won’t laugh at anyone else!
Werechull @87 – That’s… deeply disturbing, that you would think such a thing. Unfortunately, my lips are sealed on this matter; I cannot grant you the reassurance you seek.
Also, y’all are killing me here!
POW! right in the kisser!
Goddamn loved it.
Is it the 12th yet?!?!?!
So few thoughts as I read:
Re Dalinar’s Boon & Curse – I think we are starting to agree that losing all memory about his first wife is more is curse than his boon. Someone earlier mentioned how strange that his kids (Adolin & Renarin) haven’t been portrayed with some sort of emotional/mental trauma from the potentially violent death of their mother. Could this be Dalinar’s boon – that his children weren’t traumatized by the death of their mother? I can’t even recall if there’s been a dialogue/mention of Adolin or Renarin mentioning their mother? I could be wrong there though….
Re Bridge Four Squires – So I don’t know if the comments section or other discussion boards have discussed it, but I recall that Kal couldn’t get tattooed with Bridge Four because of his abilities. Now we have Bridge Four healing (so glad for Lopen!)… does this mean that those tattoos are coming off of them too? Or was it more that those have “wounds” have healed already on the squad, and won’t be removed (similar to Kal’s sash brand)?
@111 I’m going to assume they keep the Bridge Four tattoos unless their self-image changes. Which begs the question of if Moash still has his tattoos.
@106
lol definetly
@78 and @100
I hope he’s happy about the new sibling too! It will be great for him to have a new family member to love. I just feel like it will be quite the shock for him at first. Like, imagine if you leave home for several years and them come back to find a new sibling. Of course you’ll end up loving them, but first… it’s a surprise. I can’t wait for when he actually meets him/her!
If it’s another apprentice, though, it might be a bit rockier.
Argh why does Tuesday have to be so far away?! I hope we get another Kaladin POV then, otherwise…. it’s going to be a loooooong wait.
And I think his sibling will be…. I can’t decide. It’s too awesome to contemplate. I’ll be thrilled either way.
Sebarial’s reaction to the Stormfather seems slightly suspicious…
@108 You’re saying that we WILL find out in this book what Dalinar’s request, boon and curse are! I was hoping we would (as well that he would tell Navani that he doesn’t remember his wife, and that he and Navani would get married – hey, four chapters in we already got these!)
Also, with rereading all of the Stormlight Archive in the last few weeks, with also following first Hurricane Harvey and now watching Hurricane Irma, I have been thinking a lot of what it would be like to be in a world where you get a hurricane coming through every few days usually (and how devastating if the hurricane came the wrong way). Even in our modern world, seeing how much damage Harvey did is sobering. It makes me wonder if highstorms were measured by their wind speed what hurricane level they would be at. I also feel like it’s timely – like somehow we are in the Never Ending Story, and our world is affecting Roshar (or vice versa).
@106 I think that having a 4 1/2 year old surgeon would feel too much like Dune – and I never bought a two year old assasin anyway. Even super genius toddlers just don’t act like adults.
@113 I think the pacing is right for non-Kal chapters and maybe a flashback. It may be a couple of weeks before we see Kal again.
@115 If Dalinar is right the Everstorm is actively malicious which is even more frightening.
My wife told me last night “you should just read it all when it comes out.” LOL
@Wetlandernw Remember when you were in Spokane for Sasquan (Worldcon 2015)? That is how smokey it is in Spokane again. Ugh.
The three sons comment was completely metaphorical. The soldier, slave, and captain.
Get it? Three different Kaladins.
@111
I think the issue with Kaladin’s tattoo rejecting the ink was because he took in stormlight while it was still an open wound. (tattoos are technically an open wound and healing for 4-6 weeks). Since it has been that long since the bridgemen got them they should all be healed and shouldn’t be affected by their stormlight.
I think the assumptions that Jasnah wrote “Oathbringer” are still premature. It could certainly fit her experiences, but that does not mean there are not others who have similar experiences that are close enough to fit the words. Indeed, even the “death rattles” have mentions of Shadesmar, and “I thought that I was surely dead” could imply something in this vein. Further, “some who saw further than I did” seems questionable – who would this be, in relation to Jasnah?
Gepedo’s assumptions regarding Dalinar’s love for his first wife are clearly highly questionable. My belief is that he did come to lover her – else why would he seek vengeance as the text here indicates? Everything in the text has at the least heavily implied that he did love her.
I see strong arguments for both sides of the Dalinar’s boon/curse argument. Not remembering his wife could fall on either side. I’m looking forward to finding out, and am not putting any money down on either side.
Hessina’s surprise – whatever it is she needs to tell him – could definitely be a younger sibling. I’m not going to put all my eggs in the “little sister” basket until it’s shown on screen though – it could be something else entirely.
I haven’t seen it mentioned anywhere on Tor but Stormlight Archive fans should check out the kickstarter on Brandon’s homepage. I assume advertising kickstarters is not in line with Tor’s policies but I might get away with it in comment form…
I know I want an orchestral album about WoK called Kaladin.
@119 Except Lopen’s arm is healing and it’s an old wound. I think there’s a Cognitive aspect to Stormlight healing that explains Kaladin’s failure to get the tattoo.
@120 “I think the assumptions that Jasnah wrote “Oathbringer” are still premature. It could certainly fit her experiences, but that does not mean there are not others who have similar experiences that are close enough to fit the words. Indeed, even the “death rattles” have mentions of Shadesmar, and “I thought that I was surely dead” could imply something in this vein. Further, “some who saw further than I did” seems questionable – who would this be, in relation to Jasnah?”
– The “some who saw further than I did” could refer to Taravangian and his group. With “The Diagram” he clearly saw many events in the future (even if they were misinterpreted)
@122 Shoot. I didn’t even think of that.
@120:
Taravangian. Members of The Diagram. She may not know that Taravangian is the head of the Diagram, but she probably knows they exist. I can’t imagine they didn’t try to recruit her at some point.
Jordan ninja’d me.
Five years have passed since Kaladin went away. That would make his sibling at the most a five year old toddler. So the new apprentice is probably not a sibling (Lirin also did say the apprentice had a few years of training)
… well, at least this time Kaladin got himself into a situation from which he can easily extract himself. I hope.
Kaladin why do you have to just punch?
If I were you, I’d pull out Syl and declare I outrank everyone in town, and then punch. Much more satisfying that way.
@128 It will be really interesting to see Kaladin on the other side of the light-eyes privilege chasm. He would have been the first one to get upset if some light-eyes showed up waving a shardblade to avoid the consequence of his actions.
@Everyone re. Kal’s possible new sibling
You may be right that he has a new sibling, but Hesina says “We had to dedicate your spot to something else, Kal, but we can make space for you.”
“Dedicate your spot to something else” isn’t what you say when you give your kid’s room to another kid. It could be a nursery. but short of that, I don’t think it was because of another kid. A four year old isn’t a “something else”.
I think it’s something other than a new sibling.
So, the new apprentice seems to be female? How is this possible, given that she has to keep one hand gloved? I mean, they appear to know about importance of cleanliness and wound hygiene, but there is no hint of them being able to produce rubber – which is what a surgeon would need to avoid their glove becoming a wellspring of infection. Bare hands can be easily washed, at least.
First of all, thank you Brandon and Tor for doing this. I love getting the chapters this way and was hoping for something like this. So far, the book is amazing. Anyone else find it interesting that Shallan has been in at least two scenes and hasn’t yet spoken?
@122: You are correct. There is an Cognitive reason for the arm vs. brand healing. There are several WoB’s about the brand and why it did not heal during WoR.
EDIT: I’m also bad at finding them. Sorry.
Here is the WoB. Thanks @Ross Newberry!
@114 I definitely got the impression Seb was probably listening to a (his) spren freakthefuckout or something along those lines.
Haha, no, Navani, Dalinar isn’t the one assigned to continue “dancing on the edge.”
What are “subspren”? *checks the Stormlight Archive Wiki* That didn’t help.
Dalinar thinking Navani is “gorgeous” three times in one chapter feels a bit excessive to me.
“Your life is defined by deciding what you want, then seizing it. The rest of us could learn from that, if only we could figure out how to keep up.” Hah. I could say that to a number of real and fictional people in my life.
Brandon, please stop earworming me with “Riders On The Storm.”
I love Syl’s curiosity and enthusiam toward everything, including a random amphibian.
My first thought was that Kaladin’s room was occupied by someone-or-other made homeless by the Everstorm. But I see now that there are many other possibilities, especially wuth the reminder that Hesina said “something,” not “someone.”
I like seeing that there’s life after sn Everstorm, even if it’s far from over.
Is it cheating that I’ve been making this into a nicely formatted PDF and putting it on my kindle for easy reading in bed?
If you guys are interested, there are four Dalinar flashback chapters in the book Unfettered II that help explain some of the vague things that happen in these chapters if you want to check it out. :)
@138: At this point I advise people to not read those chapters.
They have changed. And there are some story elements that flow better in the book as it is now written.
Beta reader opinion.
But there are some other very good books in Unfettered II and it raises money for a good cause.
I’m not sold on the Jasnah as Oathbringer thoughts… Brandon loves to fake us out in epigraphs. Or at least he has before…
It could well be that Dalinar wrote it and the 5/6 stuff are things we haven’t seen yet. 4 could speak to Dalinar himself actually learning to write and scribing the book…
Or it could just be Jasnah :)
I am highly impressed by the single unbroken pane of glass on the eastern side of the tower. Does it span the full 180 floors? Wow. I feel bad for the window washer.
Might be easier to just re-transform/soulcast it every little while when stormlight is in abundance, aha.
I don’t know why I never noticed until now….Kaladin’s name fits very well with Dalinar’s sons’. Adolin, Renarin, Kaladin. I wonder if that was intentional, since his name was different in the first draft of WoK.
@136 – I caught the “subspren” thing too. I think they are the more wild spren that appear, like flamespren or windspren that don’t think or have personalities.
Quick thoughts, now that I finally have a chance to comment in depth:
-We’re definitely being led to believe that Jasnah is writing the chapter intros here. I was under the impression that Oathbringer was an older in universe book, like Words of Radiance and Way of Kings, so I still don’t fully accept that the author is Jasnah, but the evidence to support Jasnah’s authorship is mounting…
-Glad Dalinar and Navani were able to make it official (except maybe in the eyes of the Vorin church; that is going to be a growing problem, I bet). Also, good on Elhokar for calling his uncle out on his actions.
-Nice entrance by the Stormfather! I love the mention of all of the awespren after he left (and of Navani’s gloryspren, too). I found it noteworthy that Brandon highlighted the fact that Dalinar’s guards (from Bridge 13) sagged after Stormfather did his binding and left. Did we just witness the binding of new squires to the Bondsmith? Or some other type of link? We know so little about what Bondsmiths can do…
-Sebarial’s actions post-Stormfather’s departure could be potentially noteworthy. Was he acting purely out of awe? Or are his reactions connected to a spren of his own?
-Kadash’s comments surely hint at something fairly horrible going down at Rathalas and likely related to what happened with Shshshsh. Very interested in seeing that flashback now.
-Kaladin running out of Stormlight less than half a day after he left? This may relate more to his squires being unable to access Stormlight more so than the location. Something to definitely pay attention to.
-(Also, this says something about how practiced/efficient Szeth was with flying versus Kaladin, currently. Szeth seemed to believe he could fly all the way from Narak to Urithuru with only the Stormlight in his bag of spheres. Kaladin couldn’t fly a significantly less distance while carrying a “wealth” in gemstones. Still, a thousand miles in one day ain’t bad)
-Kaladin’s military assessment -and subsequent handling- of the manor’s guard just adds to the perception of how dangerous a fighter he really is.
-I am reaaaalllly curious what happened to the Parshmen. Were they actually possessed by the evil spren in the Everstorm? Did they just run towards freedom afterwards? Did they fight their former captors at all, or are all of the injuries linked to the storm? So many questions.
-I totally get Kaladin and his parents instinctively regressing into their old familiar roles/perspectives from 6+ years ago. His parents likely still see him as the boy who left them, and portions of young Kal are still deep within him. But at the same time, he is balancing the people/town he knew as a little boy six years ago, with what he sees through a more experienced man’s eyes.
-And then Kaladin punches Roshone in the face. I laughed, but that was really not the smartest thing to do at this time.
Wow! 140+ Comments already!?! So much to catch up on! Let’s see what everyone had to say…
Subspren as in subhuman. The High Spren think of mindless spren as subhuman. Like we’d think of an ape or monkey.
This series reads differently than any epic fantasy I’ve come across. Brandon has a knack of revealing things and having his characters share information in a way that is unexpected, especially for those who see WOT or ASOIAF as the standard. I’m speaking specifically of Dalinar sharing his amnesia about his former wife or the reason why they got married in the first place. I had a similar moment in WOR with the nature of spren reveal. I think it’s awesome. It also shows that this world is flipping huge and there are some things that we don’t even know to question yet. But I always keep in mind that this is the same guy who wrote Kelsier. I remember that there is always another secret.
johnnytrip @117 – I was just thinking about that… we’ve got ashfall in Seattle today, and the air quality isn’t good, but it’s not as bad as Sasquan WorldCon! But I figured Spokane was probably in bad shape, given that you’re pretty much surrounded by fires.
I believe Dalanar, is responsible for his wife’s death. The wish and price were never defined. We only assume he wished to forget his wife. But what if that wasn’t the wish, but the price? And the wish was to forget his mistake that cost her life.
@147 In WoT it’d be another three books before Dalinar told Navani about Shshshsh. The wedding would have happened in the book after. I was not expecting to go from “maybe the Stormfather will marry us” to the wedding in a single scene break.
I’m still boggled by the amount of world building we get in the sample chapters.
Tuesday is finally here! I’m so happy I could cry.
Oh thank you for posting this, you sure know how to make a grown man cry. :)
@KiManiak:
Its only good if Elhokar also recognizes his own contributions to Dalinar’s actions. Kings who act like children in a time of war tend to get deposed.
See my comment @95 regarding this. I’d love your take on that thought, based on last week’s back and forth.
@143 – With Kaladin’s name, one thing goes through my head every time I read it (which can somewhat hinder reading):
Have Spren Will Travel reads the card of a man.
A knight without armour in a savage land.
His fast spear for hire heads the falling wind.
A soldier of Honour is the man called Kaladin.
Kaladin, Kaladin,
Where do you roam?
Kaladin, Kaladin,
Far, far from home.
Of course, he’s currently not physically far from home, but metaphorically he probably still is.
What if Kaladins father had an affair many moons ago and had a child with that other woman and now Kaladin has an older half sister? The other woman may have died during the Everstorm. We already know that Lirin isn’t infallible as seen during the whole spheres from the dying man, buisness.
Storms take you, Kaladin! You are not helping anything! You are a freaking Knight Radiant, a warrior gifted with supernatural skill for the protection of all, and you go sucker punching a bitter old merchant who lost his son in a tragedy and lashed out in pain. Hope you feel like a big man! Not to mention there’s not even a thought of the consequences for the people you love that have to live in this village.
This is disappointing to me. It’s like the time in Superman II where Superman goes and beats up the town bully after he regains his powers. It’s petty, beneath him, and (at least for Superman) out-of-character. For Kaladin, it is sadly in-character, since he is famously ruled by his own personal sense of vengeance, but I had hoped he had grown a bit after learning to empathize even with Elokhar. He still has a ways to go it seems.
Storms!
As usual, Brandon surprises me. When Dalinar and Navani start talking about the difficulties getting married, I figure we’re in for half a book – or two – of angst over that, just as we got angst over them being attracted to one another in the first place.
A few paragraphs later, and they’re married!
Also, he’s finally told someone about his boon/bane from the Nightwatcher.
Beyond that…KALADIN PUNCH! Ah hah hah hah hah.
Syl’s ‘odd memory’ of her aunt will be significant. This I Foretell. Not about Nightwatcher or Cultivation, as she says specifically that this ‘aunt’ was an honorspren.
Syl’s babble about everyone being connected (surely the same trait that we know of as Connection, on Scadrial) makes some sense, at least, but…“Besides, there was… another voice. Pure, with a song like tapped crystal, distant yet demanding…” Um…huh?
Bravo to Kaladin’s internal monologue on realizing that return home was reverting him to childhood (certainly a common experience!): “Perhaps it was time, for once, to stop letting the rain dictate his mood. He couldn’t banish the seed of darkness inside him, but Stormfather, he didn’t need to let it rule him either.”
Let’s hope! His doldrum was tough to take after just one chapter.
NEED MOAR BOOK.
Maybe I’m crazy but I think Kaladin’s punch was a good thing. Here’s why:
He didn’t seem to do it in fury. This wasn’t impulsive, vengeful, rage fueled violence of the kind we would have seen Kaladin struggling with before. This felt more like someone making a point, kind of like Dalinar’s attack on Elhokar. He needed to show Roshone who is boss, that he isn’t afraid and that he knows what Roshone did and holds him accountable. This was a young alpha male taking control of the pack from the old. Now whether or not he can make the rest see it that way, we shall see.
Jasnah authoring Oathbringer seems too obvious. Sanderson is usually more subtle. I’m really enjoying the beginning of the book. I have so many ideas about the direction the characters could be going. Tuesday can never come fast enough.
I don’t think the chapter headers are supposed to be a mystery, so I’m not sure “subtle” is necessary. I mean, most of the time, the header tells us who is writing it. The only time it didn’t was The Letter, and it was obvious who was writing it almost immediately.
@155 – while I agree that Kaladin should have shown more self control, Roshar didn’t just lash out in a petty way. He specifically singled out their young and obviously not martially inclined son to be sent to likely death. It was evil, in my opinion. So I have no real sympathy for him.
@160:
I agree with you, but with the addendum that Roshone had no other way to strike back at Lirin, as Lirin pointed out to Kaladin shortly before it happened. Lirin’s rank, and position, protected him from reprisals. Kaladin was protected by way of being an apprentice to Lirin.
Anyone else can’t wait to see how Laral will react? He just shows up and punches her husband (assuming they got married, since they were engaged when Kal left.) And of course he has a shardblade, which she insisted on him getting. Plus I kinda wanna see how she feels about her husband sending her only two childhood friends to what everyone thought was their death.
I have no source for this, but it could be that a radiant would be more than a lighteyes of the 4th dahn. True that shardbearers are automatically, but it very well might be that radiants are even higher by default. Once he invests stormlight, whenever he is able to find some again, people will realize he’s more than just a shardbearer. Could be that changing Syl from a sword to a spear might even be enough to show that, plus the eye change. Shardbearers eyes don’t alternate, they become light and stay that way (far as I know) for as long as they are bonded to a blade.
Okay, I’ve only gotten as far as my comment at 145. You guys are all kinds of prolific to do this in only 8+ hours, but I am enjoying the discussion so far:
Lisamarie@11 – I like that Brandon made it a point to show Dalinar wanting to wait until they were married. It was very sweet, and I think the reader will continuously need to see the sweet side of Dalinar to balance the terrible Dalinar we will likely see in the flashbacks…
AP@15 – I still disagree with your belief that Lopen loses his ability to Invest after Kaladin travels to Urithuru. I still find it interesting you prefer to hold to Dalinar’s belief (nebulous as it is) on how squires abilities work, but completely reject the unfolding of events that Brandon wrote in WoR Chapter 87. Also, it likely took the Lopen awhile to gather enough stormlight infused gems to heal himself, based on how little grew back initially. And we see the scribes communicating to the warcamps in the same scene that Kaladin arrives at Urithuru. Even assuming that the span reeds had sent the evacuate message between the armies’ relocation to Urithuru and Kaladin’s defeat of Szeth and subsequent travel to Urithur, word would have had to travel very fast to trickle down from Sebarial’s scribes to Chilinko to Lopen, all before Kaladin jumped through the gate to Urithuru. A far more likely explanation is that Bridge 4 lost the ability to Invest after Kal’s stormlight ran out in half a day’s time. Hopefully we find out more information about squires throughout the course of the book. (Edited this for clarity, as it made more sense in my head then it did written down here)
Aether@17 – re: Dalinar killing his own wife: That is definitely a possibility, although he could have as much guilt from indirectly killing her (like, giving the order that led to her death) as if he actually killed her himself.
Brightshadow@29 – Kaladin having another sibling is an interesting possibility. I read the fact his room was being otherwise used as a reflection that his parents had moved on. His father appears to have a new apprentice, so it could even be used for her. A new sibling could be possible, though.
BS@35 – I think we can also include Kaladin and Shallan being presumed dead in the Shattered Plains to that list of events in between Kaladin and his last shave, right? I see others also added some clarifying details.
Derek@51 – Force feeding Lift in order to fill gemstones with Stormlight? Now that would be hilarious! But you do bring up a good approach for the Radiants to deal with stormlight shortages due to the Weeping in upcoming years.
Lisamarie@59 – Ha! I busted up laughing at that one!
FSS@75 – I got the impression that the Everstorm occurred below Urithuru, and so it’s likely Rlain was spared from being possessed by evil spren. Or maybe Rlain just had to wait in doors.
Fulgrilim@77 – Re Bondsmith squires – Glad someone else caught that and had a similar thought! It does look like something happened to the Bridge 13 guards. Who knows what the power of the Stormfather can do, especially when he is dealing with powerful oaths uttered by his Bondsmith.
Gepeto@78 – You literally quote, “’Navani, maybe I did grow to love her. I can’t remember.’” before you state that it doesn’t look like Dalinar loved Shshshsh at all? Your assertion is directly contradicted by your quote! Dalinar says it as plain as he can: He can’t remember. Any speculation beyond that is purely due to what the reader wants to believe, not what the author has written. (Also, the marriage included Shshshsh’s Shardplate as part of the arrangement, not the Blade).
Wet@83 – I am enjoying “evil laugh” Alice and her teasing!
Manavortex@92 – Yeah, I also hope this clears up any “malevolent Navani” theories. I guess someone could try to spin it as her evil plan finally succeeded, but that would be such a dark view of things. I believe in being skeptical of a lot, but that would be going too far, even for me.
Walker@93 – Re: Squires and their access to abilities. Yes, clearly I agree. And the timeline we have received so far supports it.
AP@95 – No, Kaladin running out of Stormlight is described significantly different than when he is not actively drawing in Stormlight. He is described as “drained” and “used up.” in the excerpt above. That is not how Kaladin is normally described at all. And even if you are correct and his squires could only invest while he is, that fits the story/timeline better than squires not being able to invest due to distance.
Hafrigado@106 – Ha! The four-year-old surgeon! I’m sure the townspeople would love that!
Daniel@114 – Re: Sebarial – There has been speculation that Sebarial may have bonded/is about to bond a spren, so maybe this is evidence of that.
brovery@120 – I agree that we should not consider it a foregone conclusion at this time that Jasnah is writing Oathbringer (or even, just the preface). I see a lot of jumping to conclusions in these first few preview chapters (and I’m sure I’m doing it too) but we should try to keep in mind that we still have a relatively small and incomplete amount of new information so far.
GHM@140 – Or maybe it’s neither of them?
The book is an in-world book. It’s obviously Jasnah as author because if not her then who? Who else has the relevant experience to write such words? And if it were someone else, wouldn’t someone have mentioned a book with such a controversial preface in the story? Jasnah herself would have mentioned this book to Shallan at least in passing were previously available. It would have given her and Shallan (who shares a Surge with her) some insight into their powers.
@160 – I guess I’m thinking of WoA and HoA where we’re kind of fooled by the epigraphs and who wrote them.
@164 too true – it could be an OLD book still. Pre-Recreance even.
AP@152 – Re: Elhokar – Let’s hope that Kaladin’s comments at the end of WoR are leading towards some type of change from him. Maybe the first step is him calling out his uncle.
Re: Squires and Stormlight – My comments@164 were pretty quick responses to a couple of your posts. I think there is a lot of information to charge to Dalinar’s offhand comment from Chapter Two. I also think the readers (me especially) made initial assumptions from that comment of which we should be careful:
Dalinar never clarifies as to exactly when they lost their abilities. It could have been immediately after Kaladin used the Oathgate, or it could have been shortly before Dalinar makes the above observation to himself; we just don’t know. He never explicitly mentions proximity as a factor; some of us just inferred that from the comments (again, I am as guilty of initially doing this as anyone). Such a clarification from Dalinar would most likely refute and/or validate a lot of the speculation here.
But I do enjoy our back and forth, and I believe our discussions have been pretty fruitful, so if you still disagree I would like to hear/read more as to why.
Something else that supports my theory (comment 106) is that when Mara was born Lirin knew that he would have to train his daughter to be an expert surgeon before she had to start covering her safe hand (since as someone before mentioned, silk/cloth gloved hands are not great for surgery).
@154 – Re: Mara being Lirin’s child from another woman: Wow. Well, I guess it’s possible and that could explain why his Mom would describe it as dedicating his spot “to something else,” but I think this would be one hell of a twist.
@155 – I agree with @160’s comments. Roshone wasn’t just a bitter old merchant; Roshone essentially sentenced Tien to die purely to spite Lirin. Roshone’s act was reprehensible. It doesn’t justify Kaladin’s punch (Roshone will do everything in his power to make Kaladin’s family regret that) but I reject the portrayal that Kaladin is the only villain here.
@162- Laral’s absence in this chapter was glaring. Then again, maybe we find out that she was on the other side of the doorway behind Roshone and she slaps Kaladin (or smiles) in the beginning of the next Kaladin viewpoint as a response.
@165 – Actually, the author could still be almost anyone in Rosharian history. Maybe our heroes discover the book in Urithuru (Dalinar notes that a number of the floors have still been unexplored). Maybe the book has been around for ages and it wasn’t worthwhile for Jasnah to mention it to Shallan as (so far) the book doesn’t mention the Voidbringers, and therefore wasn’t initially relevant to their research. The book only vaguely mentions Shadesmar so far (and Jasnah had just barely begun to speak to Shallan about that before the assassination attempt), as does likely other books, which is why the name Shadesmar is somewhat known by scholars (and readers of children’s books, too, if I remember correctly). Why would Jasnah mention a book that shares the name of her uncle’s sword to her ward? I just think we should get through more wording from the in-universe-book’s preface before we accept as a given that Jasnah wrote it.
@everyone hating on Kaladin :) I really don’t see anything wrong with Kaladin punching Roshone. 1) He’s not putting him in any danger of dying, so his oath to Syl isn’t in any danger of damage, 2) Roshone clearly had it coming for what he did to the town, to Kaladin’s family, and to Moash’s family, 3) it probably is a good, demonstrative way of showing everyone that they don’t need to worry about Roshone or his minions. When he backs it up by summoning Syl, most likely everyone will think him merciful for not just burning his eyes out.
@120: Dalinar does not have to love Shshsh to seek revenge upon seeing her abducted and murdered (providing he did not murder her himself). He only need to have some affection for the mother of his sons, but as of now, I will maintain my stance wanting Dalinar not to have been heads over heels in love with his wife.
@164: Back in WoK, Dalinar stated while he did not remember his wife, he remembered loving her and he remembered having pursued her for three years. Truth is he married a foreigner woman because she had a Shardplate (Shardplate, not Shardblade, I knew this, I made a typo, but thanks for correcting me). He did not marry her out of love as his comments back in WoK seemed to made us think. The comment I linked have Dalinar state he supposed he has grow to love her. He supposed implying he does not think he did.
On Elhokar: I am surprised at not seeing more commentaries on him turning an antagonist… He is resentful here and he does talk of learning how to take what he wants as a lesson’s learned. It took Dalinar saying he saw familiarity within the eyes of Odium’s champion to have the entire fandom say it ought to be Adolin, but right here Elhokar does have an attitude and a comment which may lead to him opposing his uncle and nobody catches on it? Baffling.
On Kaladin punching Roshone: I am surprised at seeing so many negative comments… It was totally deserved and really, not a bad thing to do. Kaladin outranks Roshone now, Roshone can’t do anything to him, so re-positioning him as the petty selfish lord he has been for his hometown was definitely a great move. Just like that, Kaladin has taken leadership. I loved the scene and I loved how it gave Kaladin a bit more layers than “I am too honorable to take any action unless my life is directly threatened”. We already had enough of this with Dalinar, so great going Kaladin!
@111 There has been mention of Adolin and Renarian’s mother by the two of them. Whenever Adolin dueled he had his mother’s chain in his pocket – except for the four on one duel which he either forgot or lost. (I wonder if they found it or not. I hope so.)
But Adolin’s whooping in joy at the marriage was a bit surprising on my part. He seemed ambivalent about their relationship before and never seemed to go into the “thinking this was a good thing” direction.
A few errors I spotted.
LOVE THE BOOK, cant wait for the next part.
The Stormfather seemed content with this, though it was far from a traditional Alethi wedding oath. BONDSMITH? he asked. (All the other words spoken by the Stormfather are all in CAPs, but this…)
————————-
“Dalinar, that’s blasphemy,” Kadash said, voice pained.
“Kadash. You know I’m no heretic. You’ve fought by my side.” (Dalinar is responding, it needs to be in it’s own paragraph. Otherwise it looks like Kadash is calling himself his own name.)
—————————————
Syl walked up to him in the air. “They’re like I remember them.”
“Remember them?” Kaladin whispered. “Syl, you never knew me when I lived here.”
Below are my initial comments on Chapters 4-6. I am sure others have had the same comments. I have yet to read any of the comments. I will do so eventually.
The quote at the top of Chapter 4 seems to indicate that Jasnah wrote Oathbringer. And the quote at the beginning of Chapter 5 confirms that Jasnah is the author.
I am glad Dalinar told Navani about how he can no longer remember his wife: her image, her name, etc. It shows Navani that Dalinar is serious about his relationship with her and that Dalinar can trust Navani with anything. I am sure that Navani already knows that Dalinar trusts her, but for most people, confirmation is always appreciated. I had guessed (with no textual support) that his drinking somehow led to Shshshsh’s death. The conversation in Chapter 4 hints that Dalinar’s drinking (to the point of becoming passed-out drunk) was how Dalinar dealt with the loss of his wife.
I like the Stormfather’s philosophy about oaths: “There are no foolish oaths. All are the mark of men and true spren over beasts and subspren. The mark of intelligence, free will, and choice.”
I think subspren is what Stormfather calls those spren that are not sentient. More like thoughts: creation spren, exhaustion spren, gravity spren, wind spren, etc. Spren which are solely emotion or nature.
Could Zahel have married Dalinar and Navani? Is he considered an ardent? Would he have?
At least Dalinar finally admitted (at least to himself) that his actions throughout the series has in effect usurped the authority from Elhokar.
I wonder how concerned Elhokar is that his wife and child are not at Urithiru as of Chapter 4
I hope we learn more of what Kadash saw: the event that caused him to leave soldering and become an ardent.
As a pessimist, I could not stand having a spren as optimistic as Syl. I think I would want to strangle her. God help us all if we have a conversation between Lift & Syl
While knocking out Roshone might have been satisfying to Kaladin, I would have preferred the description of the look on Roshone’s face had Kaladin summoned a ShardBlade and paying back the spheres that his father stole. To me, that would have been priceless.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
aka the musespren
If Dalinar had killed his first wife, there’s no way that his sons would be so loyal to him. There would be immense amounts of distrust and wariness. It seems people are looking at JUST the Blackthorn and forgetting the rest of his life.
Honestly I’m not that worried about him punching Roshone; I was worried he’d have to go through the whole balance between honor and vengeance thing again on whether or not to kill him. Just up and punching him, then calling it square, is a whole lot better. I’m picturing him getting rushed, yelled for him to get hanged, etc., then he summons Syl and whoom, Hey I’m a shardbearer btw.
“…or he can go without a surgeon. Unless he assumes Mara can take over after just a few years of apprenticeship.”
I’m 90% sure this is what his mother was referring to, that his father has taken a new medical apprentice.
I’m wondering if Syl was referring to Tien or Laral…
@161 but why does Roshone need to strike back at Lirin at all? Even if he really was certain he stole the spheres, it’s not worth killing an innocent over.
@172: On the contrary, Adolin has been yearning for Navani to replace the mother he has lost for two books now. I think he is just glad it finally happened. I also think the “whoop” was awe and amazement at the ring things the Stormfather did. The interest in his reaction is, unlike what many have foresee, it seems more likely Adolin will grow amazed and wide eyed at the Radiants more than envious. Dalinar’s thought does also go into this direction: Adolin is the impressionable one and he knows it.
@175: They probably do not know the truth which makes me fear the moment where they will learn it.
On Dalinar and his Boon/Curse: Here my predictions and my non-predictions, because this is fun.
Predictions:
1) He asked to be cured of his jealousy towards his brother. It was sickening and it ruined several part of his life. He might have want to lose it in order to develop a more productive relationship with Gavilar, such as stopping envying him. His thoughts of how great Gavilar has been, his blind spot when we know he used to be so jealous of him might be a clue. His curse for seeing his brother in a positive way was to forget his wife.
2) He asked to forget something having to do with how Shshshsh died, something horrific and in return he forgot her all together. It seemed however a tad overdone his boon and curse would have to do with “forgetting” something.
Non-Predictions:
1) Anything to do with Renarin: he was sick before and after Dalinar presumably went to the Nightwatcher. His condition seems identical. The timing does not work for the Nightwatcher being responsible for Renarin’s visions. I sincerely doubt this is it.
2) He asked to forget his wife because thinking of her pained him too much. Dalinar isn’t a man to ignore his sorrows, he might drown them in alcohol, but he usually wears them as lessons learned the hard way. I don’t see him asking for this.
Out-of-the-box Pic
1) He asked for something entirely selfish. As Alethkar became unified, the need for war lessen and he got bored. Gavilar talked more and more about the Way of Kings. Dalinar asked for a way to bring back his brother into the “right way”, to find new foes to find. He got something which helped him discover the Parshendis throughout this hunt they did, but since he asked for something so selfish, memories from his wife were taken away.
I cannot be the only one to think these next two questions, just the person crass enough to ask them. Is there an orgasm spren? If so, what does the spren look like?
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
aka the musespren
@179. i would assume…
It would be interesting if Dalinar’s wife’s name was Rathalas. He finally was able to say it, but did not realize that this was his wife’s name. That said, I think this is unlikely. I think Rathalas is who ultimately responsible for kidnapping Shshsh. I think the Rift was the name of the place where Dalinar did whatever he did that was the result of his personal vengeance.
Not sure I believe this theory, but perhaps part of why Elhokar is so exhausted is that he is bonding some type of voidspren. It drains him more than the normal recuperation for his type of almost mortal injuries.
Gepeto @66. Chapter 4 does not say or imply that Dalinar never loved Shshsh. It says that he did not love her initially; that it was a political marriage. Nothing in Chapter 4 proves that Dalinar did not learn to love Shshsh over time. While his true love may have always been Navani, that does not preclude Dalinar from also loving Shshsh. Humans (even on Roshar) are capable of loving more than one person in his/her lifetime. Moreover, there can be different kinds of love: love of spouse, love of parent, love of child, love of pet, love of friend, etc.
Anthony_Pero @68; brovery @120; KiManiak @164 beat me to the punch.
FSS @98. The only problem with that theory is that others would have known what happened. Why would his friends not have been upset with Dalinar for killing Shshsh as part of his rage? Why would Jasnah, Galivar, Elhokar, and Navani not have distanced themselves from Dalinar?
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
aka the musespren
@181: I feel chapter 4 contradicts Dalinar’s thoughts early in WoK: he did speak of how he loved her, but now he isn’t even sure he did. He did stand astonished at Adolin changing partner so often, stating how he courted his wife for three years, which made us think there was a grand love story there. Truth is, he married a woman he did not love to give a Shardplate to his brother. Did he come to love her? I do not know, we’ll have to read more of the story.
My Thoughts:
Kaladin
i don’t mind that Kaladin punched him. I don’t think anyone has mentioned the possibility of Kaladin taking everyone in Harthstone to Urithiru, thus removing any authority Roshone might have. Why would Kaladin leave all this people behind at the mercy of the Everstorm? And leave his parents behind knowing this is the beginning of a desolation. IMO the most reasonable course of action is for Kaladin to take everyone to Alethkar and open the gate there to Urithiru so that as many people as posible can survive.
@183 That’s actually an interesting point. What is the long term plan for the people of Roshar, or is there even one? Do they want to get as many as possible to Urithiru, or make them capable of fighting in their own lands? I don’t think the first option would be very practical logistically, not to mention it seems they’re setting it up more as a fortress/military base, so having a lot of civilians show up needing food and care might make things even more difficult. Kaladin might still want to take his family to Urithiru, but I’m not sure he could bring everyone from Hearthstone, and if that’s the case, I can see his parents saying they don’t want to go.
I might just be due for a reread, but have they even talked about the people in Kholinar? I remember them talking about how it was difficult to get in touch because of the rioting, but they all seem pretty casual about the queen and heir just being on their own there, with no plan to get them out.
Also, re: Kaladin’s punch. It’s definitely debatable if it was the most well thought out of his actions, and if he should have maybe had better control of his emotions (though I still felt immense satisfaction reading that line), but I definitely don’t think it was as petty as some people have been saying. Even if Roshone was grieving, and had no other way of getting back at Lirin, he specifically sent a child who was obviously not capable of fighting off to war, which was an obvious death sentence. Not to mention, his actions with Moash’s grandparents had nothing to do with grief or shock, but were just allowing people to die for monetary gain. Even Kaladin specifically chose this as the real reason for the punch -not Tien’s death, but the death of two people who were just disposable because they were darkeyes. He knows Roshone is obviously never going to get punished for that (at least not the way he should) so I can understand the anger and frustration.
“Besides, there was… another voice. Pure, with a song like tapped crystal, distant yet demanding…”
Has anyone considered that she may be remembering Adonalsium?
Oh dear, Dalinar, they are going to burn you at the stake. The Stormfather mentioning oaths may be more bad news for Adolin. At least Navani and Dalinar may get a little happiness before it all falls apart.
I agree with those who think Elokar will end up a bad guy. Dalinar really has usurped him in all but name. And he has those strange shadow spren that are just too suspicious.
It seems the missing high storms and lack of storm light must have an affect on the Radiants. Without it they are just shard bearers.
And where are those Parshmen. Do we actually know they will turn into voidbringers or was that just an assumption since they did on the shattered plains?
Wow, @186 that’s really pessimistic.
@157 I certainly agree that he would have to deal with Roshone, but he could simply have summoned his Blade if all he wanted to do was intimidate. I don’t think that it can be denied that there was an element of vengeance in his action.
@160 I certainly don’t claim to have sympathy for Roshone, but it’s an element of the whole “protect even those I hate” thing to me. I also don’t see how anything constructive is going to come from this aside from some petty satisfaction on Kaladin’s part, and there’s room for a whole lot to go wrong.
@169 I agree that Kaladin is not the only villain, or even one at all. However, I expect more out of Kaladin than I expect out of Roshone.
@170, @171 and everybody claiming that this will be cool because he will use his Shardblade or his standing as a lighteyes to get his way: This has been a theme in the series that it’s not so much that the lighteyes specifically abuse their power, but that anybody who has power will misuse it. Keep in mind that we hated Roshone before what happened with Tien in the first book. Why? Because he kept using his position to abuse people. And in the case of Kaladin’s family, he actually was abusing them justly: Liren had stolen the spheres! When we found that out, it didn’t make us sympathetic to Roshone.
In the same way, yes, Kaladin has grievances and now he has both power and position that have reversed the roles with those that used to mistreat him. Will he use them to bully and terrorize the people who have wronged him, or will he rise above the cycle of vengeance? Which is the more honorable path? I actually wonder if this might be the central challenge for him to overcome in this book that will lead him to his next set of Words. I also think it echoes the issue of Sadeas’ death, how everybody is openly saying that they’re OK with it because the ignoble end came to somebody who “deserved” it. There’s that whole “journey before destination” thing though that has to be considered at some point.
@179 : Andrew, tsk, tsk.
Joy spren? Maybe Awe spren for a really impressive one? Or passion spren. ;-)
I did once ask if a life or creation spren appeared upon conception in Roshar. Brandon danced away from an answer.
@186
I can see Dalinar going to war in the name of religion before he lets himself go out like that..
If he sees it as being honorable and just, he wont hold back…
@15 AP – I like the timeline you posted, yet it seemed out of order to me, I researched and rearranged it citing the chapter and page from the hardback WoR. The numbers are your original order.
@167 Ki – I agree the timing is vague and open for interpretation, by following the order of events Lopen started investing about the time Kal arrived in Urithiru.
updated timeline
1 – Kal finally says his oaths, and defends the King (This is what triggers his ability to have “squires”). Ch 84 pg 1013-16
2 – Kal hides the King with Lopen’s family. Ch 87 pg 1050-51 this is when it is stated what he did with the King
3 – Kal flies to defend Dalinar and fight Szeth. Ch 85 pg 1025-26 5 – Kal continues to fight Szeth as the Highstorm and the Everstorm leave the SPs. Ch 86 pg 1028
4 – The Army travels via Oathgate to Urithiru. – the travel took place while Kal was fighting Szeth over the plains. Ch 86 pg 1038-39
8 – Kaladin finally defeats Szeth and flies back to the Oathgate. Ch 87 pg 1043
9- This is all within two hours or maybe half a day of when the Army travels to Urithiru
6 – Army scribes communicate by spanreed to get everyone from camps moving to SPs Oathgate and eventually Uritiru. – Dalinar had the communications started almost as soon as they arrived in Urithiru. Ch 87 pg 1049
10 – Kaladin travels to Urithiru with Bridge Four. Ch 87 pg 1047-48 1
2 – Kaladin has his initial conversation with Dalinar and Shallan. Ch 87 pg 1050
7 – Lopen Invests stormlight and begins to heal himself. Ch 87 pg 1052 – regrows the arm after Kal travels to Urithiru
13 – Over the next five days, the rest of Bridge Four begin to demonstrate Investiture abilities. – some of the others were seen “glowing” by Teft near the end of the battle on the SP Ch 87 pg 1047
14 – Kaladin has the conversation with Dalinar explaining he needs to go home and warn his parents. Ch 89 pg 1074
15 – Kaladin leaves via Oathgate.
11 – Lopen loses ability to Invest when Kaladin does this. – it was never stated or implied that Lopen lost his abilities at a time other than with the rest of bridge 4
16 – The rest of Bridge Four lose their ability to Invest. OB Ch2
Assuming “subspren” are the “elemental” spren, flamespren, windspren, etc etc…
Isn’t it hilarious that Stormfather, a Splinter of Honor, is essentially being super racist towards the spren linked to Cultivation?
Pretty sure Kaladin has a new sibling. His parents have some big news, and I think that is it. His “spot” being taken and all.
@AP, @KiManiak
Remember from the “Bridge Four Gets Tattoos” scene that Kaladin can get a tattoo when he focuses on NOT investing, but when he forgets, he subconsciously invests and the tattoo heals up. So it is safe to say he is slightly invested most of the time, excepting after mad dashes for a thousand miles and the like. So I’m with KiManiak on squires with powers due to their Knight’s Investment rather than physical proximity.
Regarding Bondsmith squires, isn’t that order limited to a handful of members? So if they can have squires, I would think Dalinar could only have a single squire, thus Bridge Thirteen sags for other reasons…but I don’t have an alternate theory.
I’m late for the party but here are my two cents.
1. Love the wedding
2. Love Adolin and Renarin’s reaction to their father marrying .
3. Where is Shallan? It was just mentioned she was there but she has not spoken at all.
4. Kaladin as a fashionista! Thanks Brandon Sanderson! This is a great send off for me for fashion week which btw starts this Thursday.
5. Love the punch
SunDriedRainbow @192 – You’re assuming all of the spren who can bond are of Honor? Even Wyndle, who calls himself a “cultivationspren”?
The Stormfather and sub-spren has me thinking about wider concerns. See, I have a theory that the next Words Kal, Shallan or Lyft speak will give them access to Shardplate, and that plate is made up of lesser spren. Kaladin’ Shardplate will be made up of windspren, Shallan’s of creationspren, Lyft’s out of lifespren. The sub spren are the dumb ones, one of them graduate to become a bondable spren with the Nahel bond. Windspren become Honorspren, creationspren become Cryptics (or Liespren), lifespren become whatever Wyndle is.
Wow, I went to bed and woke up to another 150 posts!
It seems obvious that Jasnah is the writer, but maybe it is too obvious so then we will think it must be someone else, but then Brandon would know we would see it as too obvious so he actually made it Jasnah just to double trick us, but, but, but….Princess Bride Anyone?
I do agree though that it may very well not be Jasnah
I too thought that Hesina was referring to a sibling when I first read the chapter, But as Wet Andrew (darn whoever that person was that stole the actual WetLander tag!) points out, we’ll just have to wait and see:)
I agree that Kaladin whipping out his Shardblade and outranking Roshone could solve some problems, but the question is will he? Kaladin still has so much resentment to Lighteyes. He doesn’t even know how he feels about his eyes changing color. He has already given away not 1 but 2 Shardblades. He seems to believe that darkeyes should be treated better and a man should be judged based off his merit rather than the color of his eyes. Kaladin’s stubbornness may just make him buckle down and try to win this confrontation as a normal darkeyed man. Refusing to simply pull rank like a Lighteyed man would do.
Is it just me or does Stormlight Archive keep getting better? I’m comparing the beginnings of the books, and this one has been amazing.
Anyway, what a set of chapters! Thoroughly enjoyed reading every single word, and all the emotions I could experience. Damn!
I love the way Brandon is slowly dropping details about Dalinar’s past. He has me intrigued. I WANT MORE!
AND AND AND. THE PUNCH. SO SATISFYING.
I am in the club with those who do not think it was petty of Kaladin to punch Roshone. Yes, may-be a little bit impulsive, but to me it seems he did it quite on purpose to show he will not be bullied any more. And I also agree that Knight Radiants should be of a bit more higher rank than ordinary shardbearers.
Hah, Adolin is definitely rubbing off on Kal. And I loved the wedding and Adolin’s joy.
Edit: It seems I got the double hunny this time. My first, if I remember correctly. Does this mean I’m also in the club now? :)
That punch was so satisfying also hunnyx2
Anyone think that kaladin have new brother/sister? i mean look at this:
– “We had to dedicate your spot to something else, Kal, but we can make space for you.”
– “Roshone isn’t as bad as he once was. I think he feels guilty. We can rebuild, be a family again. And there’s something else you need to know about. We—”
-“Hesina rose to join Lirin. The two had a hushed exchange as the guard settled back against the doorway”
And I think this will be Kaladin redemption, new oath to protect his new brother/sister but this time he will success unlike Tein.
The way that the Bridge 13 guards sagged and felt drained reminded me of Cusicesh the Protector, the giant ocean(?) spren which Axies studied in an interlude. Maybe this likeness provides more evidence that he could be one of the bondable super Bondsmith spren. It still doesn’t explain the other weird behavior of the spren but we’ll just have to RAFO.
@196 oh, I didn’t think about that, you’re right.
And honestly, we know windspren are Honorspren cousins, so it doesn’t make sense in the first place. Alas, my Shard-racism theory is debunked. I still chuckled at it.
@75 why should it have changed Rlain? The Everstorm doesn’t reach the part of the cliffs where they are located. Recall that Dalinar is looking down at the top of the storm raging below as the storm returns in chapter 4. With Rlain safely above the storm I see no reason he should be affected by the effects it might bring.
@75, @205:
Also, the Listeners had to go out into the storms to get changed and attune certain rythms to start the process/release their current spren, so staying under cover probably protects them. IMHO, it is unlikely that Thude’s thousand of dissidents are going to be possessed willy-nilly, because what would have been the point of them splitting, if so?
I wonder why the Hearthstone parshmen compound actually has a hole in it. Maybe they don’t have to go out into the storm to get possessed by the storm spren because they are empty and therefore, unlike the Parshendi, wholly susceptible?
@188
“I will protect even those I hate…” you left out a part.
“…so long as it is right.”
He’s not obligated to protect all assholes, he’s obligated to do what’s right. And windrunners seem to be more spirit of the law types rather than strict letter of the law like Skybreakers. Considering Roshone’s past crimes and the meager punishments he has received for them, I’m sure Syl will consider a mere punch lenient and be perfectly fine with it.
@182/183 Re. moving people to Urithiru/Kholinar
I have also wondered if they will try to move people from the countryside into the cities. It will take a long time to rebuild small towns and farms to be protected against the Highstorms and Everstorms. It will require an entirely new way of building, perhaps underground or an A-frame style with doors and windows on the north and south sides. How would they organize this, and where will they get the resources? It would probably be easier to move people to the large cities or build large walled compounds near the cities.
That being said, it would be dangerous to transport large masses of people across the country when two storms are rolling through every few days. They will probably need to move on foot, and it would take weeks to walk from the outer towns, like Hearthstone to Kholinar. They would be exposed to multiple storms in that time. Not to mention the possibility of transformed parshmen running wild across the countryside.
Also, I wonder if Kaladin can transport people while “flying.” Could he take his parents to Urithiru this way? I’m imagining Wax and Steris from Mistborn… it seems feasible that Kaladin could do the same with at least one other person if they held onto him. I would like to see his family go to Urithiru so he’s not constantly worried about their safety, but I’m not sure if Lirin will leave the townspeople behind without a surgeon.
Edited to add: I wonder if Jasnah is able to transport large groups of people with Elsecalling? That might be interesting.
@208
Kaladin can Lash other things, so he could theoretically Lash a town’s worth of people to the sky. We did see Szeth do this (twice? Roion and Dalinar, anyone else?) with one person at a time, though he was trying to kill his ‘passengers,’ not transport them. Kaladin would need a ton of Stormlight, if he couldn’t transport himself to Hearthstone with all the Stormlight they could muster. Wouldn’t want to run out partway. When Kaladin Lashes other objects, I believe he has to touch them first, so he would have to go around and touch each person to correct their course, or slow them down enough for a safe landing.
Yeah, I don’t think I would sign up to join that particular field trip. But perhaps transporting a group of Radiants would be more plausible. Radiants probably won’t die if you drop them out of the sky. And I feel like in one of Dalinar’s visions (the one where he is a farmer and fights off the evil monsters (what were they called?) with a poker) there are a couple of Radiants that fall from the sky and only one of them was a Windrunner. So Windrunners (and maybe Skybreakers and Elsecallers) can bring other Radiants with them.
On a completely different note, what do you guys want to see in OB? I want Kaladin to get a Rhyshadium. Or any of the other Radiants. Just… Rhyshadium. Please?
Wait what’s the plural of Rhyshadium? Rhyshadiums? Rhyshadiai?
@209, oh, yes, that would be wonderful! Although, considering his relationship with horses … (still snicker when thinking of his first riding lesson)
@209 – They were called Midnight Essence.
Count me in within those who believe Kaladin is not obliged to protect every single scum bags walking Alethkar. I firmly believe his third oath isn’t merely about protection people he hates, it is about not allowing his feelings towards anybody guide whom he should protect and whom he shouldn’t. Brandon did say what mattered was the spirit of the oath, not the exact word: another Windrunner is unlikely to have the same path and to state the third oath using the term “hate”. It could be love or said in its more global approach.
I absolutely do not think Kaladin was out of line and I definitely do not think he will cower. My prediction is Kaladin was assert himself as a Radiant as opposed to a slave and then, he will heal his brand.
@209: Brandon said he wrote at least one scene featuring a Rhysadium, but I am among those preferring if Kaladin didn’t get one. It just doesn’t seem to work out in my mind: Kaladin and a Rhysadium, not because he dislikes horses, but because it just does not fit.
I am thinking Renarin will get one. And I really want someone to mention Sureblood’s death, he ought to get one post-mortem commentary.
i am starting to wonder if the fact that dalinar’s memory is lost was the boon not the curse everything points to something terrible happening with his wife
@212 Healing the brand would be sweet. Though is there any Stormlight nearby?
I think that punching Roshone is going to start the arc of how Kaladin deals with being on the privileged side of light/dark eyed. Moash tried to pretend it didn’t matter but I don’t think Kaladin will be able to get away with that.
I was thinking that the thing K’s mother wants to tell him is that his former intended has had a baby with Roshone.
@214 I agree. Kaladins first two oaths were about protecting others and now he is going to need oaths based on leadership and what that really entails. He’s proven to be an effective leader over darkeyed soldiers but now he’s a radiant in a desolation. That carries weight. He needs to overcome his prejudice of lighteyes and truly lead people like Roshone and that blustering guard with the mace. He’ll get there eventually. Sometimes you just need to get some things off your chest (re:punch Roshone in the face) before you can get down to business.
@@.-@, Stormbringer, My personal theory is that Renarin is the author of Oathbringer, despite his gender. Hey, this is the Desolations again after all; no time to stand on traditions since the world is ending!
@217 and many others. It’s obviously Jasnah. Continuing to think it’s anyone else at this point is just wishful thinking. For it to be anyone else would require a character basically exactly the same as Jasnah (heretic, presumed dead, seen shadesmar first hand, scholarly, writer, etc) and what’s the point of that? Sure there are lots of characters that share one or more of those characteristics but no one but Jasnah has them all.
@200 – yes! See @103 and 105 above.
@181 That’s what I thought about Rathalas too, but upon some googling this is what I found:
https://coppermind.net/wiki/Rathalas
Looks like that is the location and the Rift is likely whatever tragic event happened there.
@209, now I am visualizing the entire population of Hearthstone lashed to Kholinar, with everyone plummeting through the air at record speed. Thank your for that. Now I really need to see this scene in Oathbringer.
@218 I think your jumping to conclusions and I don’t think it’s wishful thinking to look at other possible authors. I look at it with an open mind, but a skeptics heart.
@218 I’m not sure it’s a good idea to trust in obvious for Sanderson’s books. We’re obviously supposed to believe it’s Jasnah at this point but that doesn’t mean it’s Jasnah.
Name one other person that has seen shadesmar WHILE BEING KILLED! Jasnah is the only one in the story so far. Could another character appear? Sure but would that character also be KNOWN as a heretic? It’s Jasnah. It’s as good as if she signed it already. But hey, believe otherwise if you wish, speculation is fun I just feel that there are much better things to speculate about.
All of the holes knocked into walls around town suggest that something happened with the parshmen.
I half expect to learn that Dalinar had the entire population of the fortress impaled or something in retaliation for his wife’s death.
@225 I expect something worse.
Adding my two cents to the discussion.
Re sibling: the part quoted by @202 to me strongly suggests a baby. Moreover, the something vs someone debate can be easily explained by a baby’s crib. My gut feel is that the baby is very young indeed – given that they heard the news that Kaladin died about a year ago, it might be the event that triggers them to have another baby.
Although this is Kaladin, I am looking at this optimistically – with a new sibling he could protect her and overcome his guilt; as for the apprentice – it’s been 5 years, he chose his path, I hope he does not get jealous, but helps instead.
Re Roshon: aye, the nose punch is satisfactory, though I hope that the next chapter will show that this is more of a thought out action – as a Radiant, he cannot succumb to (no-matter how justified or gratifying) knee-jerk reactions. The “check out this Sgardblade” scenario does make sense, but Kaladin being Kaladin, will he overcome his silent sulking fast enough to actually communicate with others, diffuse the situation, and somehow help his home and his parents?
Re the wedding: I liked it, maybe over the top, but how unique! Also liked the internal monologue about expectations of celestial celebrations that never did come.
The Vorin question is very concerning, a schism, and comparisons to the Sunmaker, could spell trouble ahead – how many Vorinists would listen to the ardents instead?
The exhausted guards, Sebarial, Navani’s glory spren have all being mentioned already and caught my eye too (except the guards squires); however, what had my attention is Renarin, quoting:
“[Adolin] ran over, trailing joyspren in the shape of blue leaves that hurried to keep up with him. He gave Dalinar—then Navani—enormous hugs. Renarin followed, more reserved but—judging from the wide grin on his face—equally pleased.”
After all the awespren dissipated from all, Adolin gets joyspren and runs around. Renarin… has no spren around him (and I am not sure he had awe spren earlier either) to indicate his emotions; and his emotions are being provided via subjective analysis of his face. Am I reading too much into this? Probably. But that lack of spren reflecting his true mood somehow stood out to me.
Re the author of OB: indeed,signs are pointing at Jasnah, and it does seem that she is ticking all the right boxes. But so did Vin for the Hero of ages with some smart interpretation of misdirection (remember the neutral noun meaning both sexes can be used? Yeah…). Well, I am still suspecting the Sunmaker, especially after refreshing my memory on the bits of bio dropped here and there (https://coppermind.net/wiki/Sunmaker ). He would certainly be seen as a heretic, nobody would wish to hear his words; the bit about the devotaries being formed in the wake of his conquest might be the reason why women might react to him strongly; and we do not know much about his bio, but as I mentioned in last weeks reread, could he not have had visions himself and been a protoRadiant? That could also explain Shadesmar. (Alternatively, during conquest having near death experiences, glimpsing, but not crossing over into the Cognitive realm cf Secret Histories.)
@209 Kaldin and any type of equine… dunno, spells trouble for me! Renarin though, that would be nice to have a faithful beast by the side.
Is there any WoB or speculation about any of the orders being particularly beloved by animals?
@197 – like very much the Shardplate explanation; makes a lot of sense. Maybe a more important “cousin” being able to coopt the “lesser” spren to help out the radiant – Kaladin and Shallan sure are surrounded by windspren and creationspren a lot. And, IIRC, Kaladin thought that Syl was a special windspren, as initially she was indistinguishable from one.And windspren make things stick together as practical jokes – surely an indication of mastery of the same surge as Kaladin has.
So, obviously we don’t know when Oathbringer was penned. It could be after events we haven’t yet seen or it could be far in a distant past involving people we haven’t met. But somebody lay out the solid arguments why it couldn’t have been written by Navani, for instance. She’s arguably one of Roshar’s most brilliant scientists. She surrounds herself with those of major influence. She’s well versed in the history of Roshar and we’ve seen her play a major part in deciphering one of the major languages of its past – unlocking yet more secrets. Is it just that we don’t want one more Radiant amongst that family? I suspect that if you’re a spren looking to bond with someone of influence, you might just be drawn to quite a number of people in that court. But that’s just me. It’s probably Jasnah, lol, and that’s awesome. But Oathvember doesn’t happen for a while and now I’ve got a whole week to wait for more chapters. Humor me. ;)
@181 Rathalas is a city, so I don’t think it’s her name. As to the Dalinar thing, maybe he killed/did something bad to Shshsh and everyone DID know. His boon being everyone forgetting he killed her (or whatever he did) and the curse is he forgets her completely?
“Besides, there was… another voice. Pure, with a song like tapped crystal, distant yet demanding…” Could this be Cultivation?
And does Kaladin outrank Roshone? Roshone is fourth dahn too, right? So how’s this work?
The punch was so awesome I couldn’t care less about any consequences…
@181 Rathalas is a city, so I don’t think it’s her name. As to the Dalinar, maybe he killed Shshsh and everyone DID know. His boon being everyone forgetting he killed her (or whatever he did) and the curse is he not only forgets what he did, but forgets her completely? That could be why no one is distancing themselves from Dalinar. (roll over for potential spoilery text/speculation)
“Besides, there was… another voice. Pure, with a song like tapped crystal, distant yet demanding…” Could this be Cultivation?
And does Kaladin outrank Roshone? Roshone is fourth dahn too, right?
The punch was so awesome I couldn’t care less about any consequences…
@224 – I am reluctant to speak with certainty about the authorship of Oathbringer based on 5 vague excerpts from the book’s preface. Clearly, you are not, which is your prerogative of course. But let’s be clear of the evidence that is being used to make such definitive declarations, as well as the speculation that has arisen from the evidence so far:
1. “I’m certain some will feel threatened by this record. Some few may feel liberated. Most will simply feel that it should not exist.”
2. “I needed to write it anyway.”
3. “I know that many women who read this will see it only as further proof that I am the godless heretic everyone claims.”
4. “I can point to the moment when I decided for certain this record had to be written. I hung between realms, seeing into Shadesmar—the realm of the spren—and beyond.”
5. “I thought that I was surely dead. Certainly, some who saw further than I did thought I had fallen.”
After reading quotes 1 and 2 last week, a number of posters here listed Dalinar as the author, based on the information given; it seems only 1 poster listed Jasnah as a possible option (and that was linked more to the atheism angle). Based on the information given from quotes 3 – 5 from this week, a greater number of posters believe its Jasnah. It is quite possible that the 2 or 3 quotes we get next week could indicate someone else, and the greater number of posters would be positive that it’s that character.
The point is that we still have very limited information, based solely on what the author of the preface has said so far. And to be clear: speculation is indeed fun, but it is those who claim they know who the author is that are engaging in speculation right now, not those of us who are urging caution and/or patience.
(Btw, anyone who read the first few excerpts of the Letter, the Second Letter, and (if I remember correctly) the pre-chapter excerpts of the Hero of Ages, would most likely be unable to guess the author of those as well, but I’m sure if they were released piece by piece, the speculation of authorship from the fans would change with each fragment.)
Personally, I enjoy reading the speculation (for the most part); I am just waiting for sufficient information to be released before I believe any speculation should be considered as a foregone conclusion. YMMV.
Chapter 5
“The manor was where the town’s parshmen had been kept; they’d have begun their rampage here. He was pretty sure that if he ran across Roshone’s broken corpse, he wouldn’t be too heartbroken.”
Am I the only person who finds the lack of information about what happened with the parshmen glaringly absent?
While it is apparent that there are injured people in Roshone’s manor house, nothing at all is said regarding the Everstorm in relation to the parshmen being changed into Parshendi as a result.
Personally, I find it unlikely that the big surprise is an addition of a new sibling to Kaladin. A four or 5 year old in training to be a physician’s helper or healer? That seems unlikely to me. Unless it is something as simple as bringing in bandages, but still I find this to be way beyond my ability to suspend disbelief. Subjecting a child, to the kind of battle trauma that we saw Kaladin go through as he was maturing and he was a bit older than 5 years of age, my goodness, it is part of what contributed to him being emotionally broken, IMHO. Realistically, young people, especially very young children do not have the emotional sense or ability to distance or detach themselves from that kind of trauma.
I don’t see that being what the big surprise is, however I have no other idea of what it could be either.
@227: I do think you are reading too much into Adolin trailing joysprens but not Renarin. If we re-read the passage, Dalinar states: Adolin, being Adolin… In shorts, Dalinar expects Adolin to be the one to react with exuberance because he is the emotional one within the family, not Renarin. My understanding is to attract emotion sprens you need to feel this particular emotions very strongly. Adolin has been seen to have anger sprens pooling at this feet when he was angry: his emotions tend to be all over the place. Now, he is happy, hence, being Adolin, he is VERY happy, so he attracts a lot of joysprens. Renarin has more mild emotions: the level of happiness he felt likely was gigantic, for him, but still not expressive nor strong enough to attract the same sprens as his brother.
My interpretation is the scene merely highlights the individual differences in between the brothers: Adolin is more emotive and sensitive while Renarin is more cerebral and leveled. As a result, one oscillate in between strong emotions, like a pendulum while the others mostly stays in the middle.
It was comment 41 Noblehunter that said –
“Note to self: never give Kal a straight line.”
So this is coming in a bit late but I’m pretty sure this applies to the Stormfather too –
“Well,” Navani said. “The only one missing is your spren, Dalinar. If he’s going to—”
From the sound of it, I think Kal has a little sister
Wow! I don’t think the book can come out soon enough for me!!!
misc. comments:
chapter 4:
About time those two get married! Dalinar rocks!!
I wonder why was Sebarial so affected by the visit of the Stormfather?
Stormy times coming for the church.
I think Dalinar may want to renounce being a Highlord of Alekthar and have his nephew be the king, while listening to him as lord of the Radiants / Urituru. He is not going to have all monarchs resign their authority to him right?
Chapters 5-6
Great homecoming for Kaladin and his parents. There was definitely some humidity while reading the reunion. My oh my who has been keeping busy getting a new heir. Meeting Laral is going to be a big issue as well.
The punch was right on! And truly it was the least he could have done to let out some of that hate he has had inside.
Well done Kal, but I’m guessing Lirin and Messina will be the ones wanting to do that face palm
@153 Muswell “Priceless”. Love it. I watched Paladin as a little girl, and loved it! Yeah, I am that old!
No Shallan fans around here?
@233. good point re: Adolin, strong emotions, and gathering spren. i wonder if he’ll attract some guilt spren if the topic of conversation slides to sadeas…
@238 she hasn’t really had anything to do yet :(
@238: Not much to say about Shallan so far.
@239: People often read Adolin as an anger oriented character because he often felt strong anger back in WoK/WoR. My thoughts are they got it wrong: Adolin is not an angry individual, he is an emotionally driven one. He has strong emotions which he cannot always contain them and, as a result, he often attracts emotion sprens. In this passage we see him being very happy and, again, it is all over the place, just like the anger. I say, if he feels another strong emotions, then yeah, I’d expect sprens to pool around him. Maybe not guilt, sadness perhaps?
Ticopv @236. I do not think it will be hard for Kaladin to see Laral. It is implied in WoK and WoR that he was in a serious relationship with Tarah since he last saw Laral. (At a book signing for AU, Brandon read an unpublished scene that provides more context with regards to his connection to Tarah. As this is not yet cannon I am not factoring that scene into my characterization of Kaladin’s connection to Tarah. Further, I am being intentionally vague in case that scene is still a spoiler. ) I think he is over Laral. That said, I would not mind Kaladin starting a relationship with Laral. They would have to get rid of Roshone somehow.
FWIIW, I think that Laral will haveno interest in Kaladin, even after she learns that he has a Shardblade and is a Knights Radiant. I think we will find out that she has come to be happy with Roshone. I hope I am wrong.
RobMRobM @215. See my response to Ticopv as to why if Laral had a child/children with Roshone, it would not be a big deal to Kaladin.
What if the surprise is that Roshone is no longer married to Laral. Rather, he is married to Kaladin’s mother. As a way to stop Roshone from punishing Kaladin’s father, his mother divorced his father and married Roshone. She still cares for Kaladin’s father and did this to save his life. Nowhere in Chapter 6 do Kaladin’s parents refer to themselves as husband and wife. Only that they are the parents of Kaladin. I throw this theory out as a out of the box theory. I do not believe it will happen nor do I want it to happen.
BTW, does the Vorinism allow for divorce?
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
aka the musespren
Re: the punch:
Count me as someone who’s relieved that Kaladin is letting off a bit of steam rather than silently holding it all in and sulking for the entire book. :) I’d be worried if he seemed crazy or out of control, but to me this was the opposite. He was telling everyone in no uncertain terms exactly what he thought about Roshone and now that he’s done that he’ll turn to more urgent tasks like figuring out what happened to the town’s parshmen.
Re: his mother’s news:
My first reaction was thinking it was about Laral. I can’t recall, does his mother think Kaladin and her are still close when he leaves town back in WOK, or does she know it’s over? A new child makes a lot of sense too, though, or perhaps a cousin or relative he wasn’t aware of.
Pretty sure Dalinar is about to start remembering everything about his first wife. And that’s also what the flashbacks will be about, I bet.
I guess I’m one of the few that doesn’t think that Kaladin has a younger sibling.
@238 and 240
Shallan fan here. Many Shallan fans have lamented about her lack of presence so far but she has been very busy actually. After all, it takes a lot of concentration and stormlight to create as big of an illusion as presenting an image of the stormfather as marryin’ Sam. Explains why no thunder – she hasn’t perfected the massive sound effects yet. And no wonder the spheres in Uruthiru are all dun.
(TIC)
To all Shallan fans – I am just wondering that though she had been mentioned several times, she has not had any POV. Adolin had one, albeit a short one. But still.
And then, they attended the wedding. But, she is not by Adolin’s side or vice-versa. I mean… goodness gracious… they have not broken up the engagement. So Adolin and Shallan are still a couple.
Anyway, I think I’m just greedy. I want to know what is going on between Adolin and Shallan.
@247: We’ll probably get Shallan next. I dunno if it will involve Adolin or not. I really want to know what is happening with Sadeas, so far, nothing. It is not plausible nothing would happen so I am waiting for the gun to fire.
We had 6 chapters so far: 4 of those were Dalinar, 2 were Kaladin with Adolin having a small viewpoint. I think the two Kaladin chapters had to happen back to back. So far, all books have been heavy with the focus character early on, but got more even as we move forward, so the strong focus on Dalinar was expected.
Thus, next week, I am expecting Shallan, probably Dalinar again, hopefully more Adolin (what goes on in his head), but maybe Brandon will want to push forward the Heartstone story arc and give us more Kaladin. Really, it is hard to predict.
On Navani’s glory spren. Glory spren appear upon winning a battle, and she was ringed by them. Why not joy or passion spren?
Is Navani one of the Elokar’s cabal, and has she just won a great battle for the bad guys?
@249
First, Elkohar isn’t strong enough or relevant enough to have a cabal. Second, Navani is too direct to try and fool Dalinar that way if it were her intent to do evil (I don’t think that’s likely). Third, I think the triumph of actually managing to marry the one she loves despite the many obstacles placed before them is a great reason for gloryspren. YMMV of course.
@249, for me, the gloryspren did not sound odd at all. You can feel glorious and victorious at accomplishing something else than a victory in a battle, too, in this case I read it as she was just so pleased to finally end this dance with Dalinar, whom she loved, and finally have him as her husband.
And I have a suspicion the next chapter or two will be Shallan’s, too.
Edit: I see EvilMonkey already beat me to answer it, should have refreshed sooner :)
I have only read about half the comments, and I see lots of speculation that Dalinar might have killed his wife. I don’t know if this has been brought up, but I think that speculation goes clearly against this text:
Surely, people would NOT be pitying him if he killed her, or is perceived to have caused her death in any way?
Isn’t it still in the weeping? That would explain why it rains (as I understand it, there’s no rain except in a highstorm in the normal year) and kaladan sees it as normal
I like the idea of Kaladin having a sibling. And said sibling would be just grown up enough to star in the next 5 books. I like that a lot.
I personally want more Jasnah, I am really curious where she and Hoid went. I was expecting her to elsecall to Urithiru as soon as she got some stormlight (maybe that’s what’s slowing them down, it being the Weeping and all). But from the timeline between when Hoid left to meet her and when she got there I would expect that even riding she should still have made it to the Shattered Plains and then to Urithiru by now.
I think it may be nobody knows the truth but Dalinar and Kadash. They told a lie. The boys do not know either: they think their father was too late to save her. They can’t possibly know. Adolin thinks his father is a super-hero, he doesn’t know what he truly was.
I remain convinced Dalinar did something terrible on this faithful day and by the way the conversation is going, there weren’t a lot of witnesses around.
Shshshsh is Dalinar’s Sadeas.
@254: I do not expect any Hoid/Jasnah action. Hoid usually only makes sporadic appearances within the story so I definitely do not expect him to start playing an active role within the main narrative anytime soon.
As for Jasnah, I do not know when or what to expect. Brandon said she was a supporting character, for the time being, and she had a small role going into Oathbrinber. Now what small means may differ from author to readers and from one reader to the next, so really predicting is nearly impossible. If I am to hazard a guess though, I would say she’ll pop by sometimes during part 4, no really before, but these are just my thoughts, we’ll see how they hold on.
I feel that Kaladin will force his family to return the spheres and probably make up any that were spent from his own pay. He was never comfortable on how they were acquired.
We’re only seeing the first part of his interaction there and the next steps will probably to help whip the guards into shape for what’s coming and part of that will be to prove he is a better soldier than they are all without revealing his radiant status. He might also have a document from Dalinar appointing him to some position there or even just mentioning his freedom and current rank or even just a spanreed.
@256, At least no spanreeds, unfortunately.
“Nobody in those towns had possessed working spanreeds, however, and he’d been unable to contact his home.”
RE: Rlain
I don’t think he would transform even if he was caught out in the Everstorm. He’s already inhabited by a spren, one that is described by Listener songs as allowing them free will and control. An original form, not one created by Odium.
The Parshmen, on the other hand, are not Dullform listeners. They have no form. They are empty vessels.the red lighting spren can inhabit them at will, because the Parshmen have no will of their own.
@257 I took that to mean no one had a spanreed along the way to his town, not that he didn’t bring one with him linked to Urithiru.
“I know that many women who read this will see it only as further proof that I am the godless heretic everyone claims.”
I haven’t read all of the comments to know if it has been said but I think this quote still points to Dalinar as author. First, who needs more proof of Jasnah being a godless heretic? She openly says so! Second, I think the godless heretic bit references Dalinar’s claim that their god is dead and might not even have been a god at all.
I wonder if that’s related to his autism. I’m on the spectrum myself, so – has Renarin ever attracted Spren other than Glys? I haven’t been paying particular attention to that…
How about the fact that Dalinar ran out of excuses and she can get laid? :P
@261 Maybe his emotions taste too different to attract common spren?
BAHAHAHAHAHA oh wow I should have seen that coming.
I read something that Pat Rothfuss tweeted a little bit ago about Kvothe not needing an antagonist — basically if you left him alone in a blank room for a while he’d find a way to mess up his own life. I feel like the same can be said of Kaladin. It’s like his thought process goes “Well, there’s nothing really messing things up for me right now, so I’d better assault this lighteyes in front of everyone just to raise the tension level
My two cents: My understanding of squires is that they were unique to Windrunners; also Kaladin has had a lot of time to lead his men, so their becoming his squires is built on a strong relationship. So it seems less likely that the men seeming drained after being in the presence of the Stormfather has to do with them suddenly becoming bond-smith squires, than it is simply being in the presence of a very powerful spren (similar to how people feel after seeing Cusicesh the Protector).
I love Kaladin’s reunion with his parents. It was not at all how I visualized it in the year or so since I first finished reading WoR. Brandon continues to surprise me. I also love that Kaladin punches Roshone!! To me it seems like righteous anger, as his own purpose is to protect people, and Roshone has intentionally put vulnerable people in harms way on several occasions. I don’t think he’s making a statement so much as impulsively letting his anger out, but it’s still in keeping with his role as a Radiant, and so I don’t believe it will hurt his relationship with Syl at all. I keep trying to predict what the fallout of this punch will be; the easy thing for Kal to do would be to summon Syl as some shard-form or other, but I don’t see Kal actually doing that. He’s too used to hoarding his secrets and revealing himself in super-dramatic ways. I’m sure Brandon will surprise me again.
I sooooo want to see Kaladin introduce Syl to his parents, I have been waiting for that for ages. And I am very curious to know how much the new Knights Radiant told each other while in Urithiru– did they meet each other’s spren? I am guessing not, since they are ALL so guarded with their secrets, but it seems like a reasonable thing for them to have done, and I would have loved to see that.
And I don’t see Kaladin losing his slave brand until at least the fifth book, if ever. He still has a lot of growing to do.
Did I miss some comments on this from chapter 6? “Syl hovered before his mother, still wearing her little havah, invisible to everyone but Kaladin. The spren had a perplexed look on her face.”
Why the perplexed look? My thoughts:
1) Hesina was the “pure, crystal voice” (or whatever the exact Syl quote is from the chapter prior)
2) Somehow Syl knows Hesina isn’t his real mother.
stormbrother @198: Truly, you have a dizzying intellect!
Ugh please disregard my @265. Perplexed look came from Syl realizing she recognized Kal’s parents.
@264 regarding the guards feeling drained! As I said in comment 203, the draining feeling reminded me far more of Cusicesh than the squires! I think this aids the theory that Cusicesh is a Bondsmith spren especially because there was no mention of Bridge 4 feeling drained, only that they could use stormlight, which is an energizing feeling completely opposite of feeling drained!
It’s a little surreal reading about all these storms while preparing to evacuate. I’m headed to Alabama tonight.
@244
It’s a memory of that day, a memory related to his wife’s death. Not definitive proof that Dalinar’s memories are coming back, but the fact that it surprised him hints at the possibility. I probably would have missed it if I had not read Martin Cahill’s post on Dalinar which immediately caused question mark spren to appear above my head.
I’ve also been following the Edgedancer reread, including the comments ***spoiler for that story*** about menarche and how lift is changing in spite of her belief that she isn’t supposed to change ***end spoiler. These 2 clues, admittedly, aren’t much to go on. But the questions! Is something wrong with Nightwatcher? Or does storm light cure people of their Boons and Curses?
Sorry, but I’m having trouble whiting out the spoiler.
Note: comment edited by moderator to white out spoiler.
@270
What of there was a physical component to Dalinar’s memory loss and Lift’s not changing. Stormlight heals so if the memory loss was similar to a Brain injury causing amnesia it could be reversed. Likewise if Lift’s not changing was some type of hormone I’m balance causing her not to grow older. Just a thought, though maybe Radiant magic beats Old Magic….
Then I looked at Chapter 6… Looks like Jasnah after all.
Jasnah game back but not there yet. Boo hoo. I hope she makes another grand entrance.
Navani finally got Dalinar. Glory Spren! I am surprised it happen so fast. Dalinar must really be hurtin’.
Shallan’s not important anymore? She opened up the gateway and I guess that’s it.
No love triangle between Adolin, Kaladin and Shallan? I thought everyone agreed the threesome would be fun?!
Some of these chapters still seem unfinished to me. Not just a few typos but gaps of exposition. Still, this will hold me till release.
Plus, I love the thread. Took me as long to read the comments as it did to read the chapters.
I can’t decide is did Dalinar seek out the nightwatcher to forget his wife or was that his punishment. If so what is his boon?
@246 Alpha, wow … Shallan *has* seen the Stormfather. What an intriguing proposal!
Jonah @273
So… based on six chapters (out of well over 100) you can say that there are “gaps of exposition.” Couldn’t possibly have anything to do with storytelling, could it? Of course there are things we don’t fully understand yet. That’s because the characters don’t fully understand them, or haven’t had time to really think about them, or don’t realize they matter. It will all happen in good time. Infodumps, while they tell you All The Things, are really bad storytelling most of the time.
ETA: The “typos,” as I explain every few days, are an artifact of copying the files from the original into WordPress. They won’t be in the print or ebook versions when they release.
bad_platypus @@@@@ 266: Well Played! I’m glad somebody gets my feeble attempts at humor:) Sometimes I just don’t do a good enough job with my exposition…
I generally dislike pretty much everything about Syl, but the image of her making her own traditional havah to give the best possible first impression for Kaladin’s parents is ridiculously cute.
@278 how can you possibly dislike Syl? Apart from her being a complete character in her own right and one of the funniest in the previous 2 books imo, she can turn Into a sword that can cut through practically anything, … whats not to like?
On a completely separate note (and this is just a personal theory) I believe that the number of “lesser” spren that the proto radients collect around them when performing acts relating to their surges has a lot of significance when it comes time to manifest shardplate, I believe the shardplate is not a single spren but rather a number of lesser spren that will be bound to the spren holding the nahel bond (eg: syl bonding windspren to make Kaladins shardplate eventually)
@224 wingracer, @231 KiManiak
I would’ve said Jasnah is the author of OB and put a 95% probability on it.
Then I started re-reading these 3 chapters and boy did this jump out at me at the very beginning:
If Navani ever disappears and does some Elsecalling (or worldhopping?), I think all the quotes thus far would apply to her as well. She has more history with/insight into Dalinar’s story to prompt her to document the forming of the KR. And, given her wedding, the phrase “further proof” of heresy makes more sense with her.
So I’m much less confident and might even guess Navani over Jasnah at this point.
I had to laugh when Dalinar said “I think you underestimate the stubbornness a crown can press into a man or woman’s mind, Navani” – and then she shows up in the next scene wearing a [bridal] crown. Not that she needs that much help in being stubborn …
I was surprised by the idea of a giant central shaft with all the elevators in it – I’d been picturing a handful of smaller shafts spread around the tower, not a single one in the middle.
I’m with those who believe that Kaladin’s punch was something he did with intention, not just a lashing out, since it comes immediately after musing that he had to stop letting things rule him.
@279 eh, different strokes. I think Sylphrena is flighty and, for lack of a better way to put it, “teehee random”. A complete character? Certainly, I’m not criticizing the writing. I just don’t like Syl.
To contrast, I love Pattern and think he’s hilarious. Wyndle, too. I love me some neurotic, overanalytical characters.
@273: We have read 6 chapters so far, we cannot reasonably expect everything within our personal lists to have been broached. While it is true the fact we are being spoon fed those chapters can give the impression the story is slow going, really it isn’t. Let’s look at what happened during those 6 chapters:
– Dalinar is able to view his visions at will, he grasps a glimpse of Odium’s Champion and it is terrifying. The theory machine is back within full gear as to whom it may be.
– Sadeas’s body is found and we see the first respondents reacting. They are happy, except perhaps for Adolin, who’s refusing to spend a minute thinking about what he did.
– Adolin is micro-managing and digging himself into work in order to avoid having free-time to think.
– Dalinar’s firs flashback gives us glimpses of a blood thirsty arrogant young man demanding challenges and not playing by the rules, but apt at judging worth based on skill.
– Dalinar and Navani marries. We get glimpses of the upcoming dissensions within Alethkar. Kadash drops a bomb on us: Shshshsh didn’t die of natural causes.
– Kaladin makes it back home safely, he meets his parents again and he punches Roshone in retribution for Moash. It was sweet and a great read filled with doom as we saw him slowly make his approach within the devastated village.
In comparison, let’s look at what happened during the first 6 chapters of WoR…
– Shallan sees a santhid.
– Shallan talks with Jasnah and becomes casually engaged to Adolin. She is way too enthusiasm about it for Jasnah’s persona comfort.
– Shallan draws Pattern.
– Kaladin gets a new uniform and makes tatoo onto Bridge 4 foreheads. Oh and he sees Amaram arriving to the Shattered Plains.
– Kaladin meets the king and thinks he is whiny.
– Dalinar launches his plan to have Adolin duel everyone living to get their Blade.
– I do not recall if we had Shallan’s first flashback or not, but from memory it was of her not talking and getting a new drawing pad from Helaran. I could be wrong though.
I say, A LOT more has happened during OB’s first chapters than within the previous book which is why saying not enough was broached seems a tad exagerated. Yes, we haven’t seen Shallan, but quite honestly, it may be because what Shallan is currently doing just isn’t as interesting or noteworthy as what Dalinar/Kaladin/Adolin are doing. It isn’t to say she get to do amazing stuff very soon, but the two most major cliffhangers at the end of WoR were Adolin murdering Sadeas and Kaladin going back home. It seems logical these two story arcs would be the first ones to be broached.
As for the love triangle, well, we couldn’t realistically expect anything to come out of it so soon, but it will happen. Eventually. My predictions are Adolin/Shallan will break down within part 1 (probably because of him) and Shallan/Kaladin will have romantic moments where they explore their feelings towards each other (almost confirmed by WoB). What will come out of it though is definitely RAFO.
Also, we can’t expect Jasnah too soon… I could be wrong, but Brandon did say she was a supporting character within this book, not a main protagonist. I see a lot of readers expecting a large Jasnah oriented story arc early in the book, I say it may not happen until the end of the book and it may not even be large. We’ll see, but there really were other things to broach within those early chapters than Jasnah trekking onto Roshar. Brandon doesn’t like to write travels, so we can expect he will skip this.
I say, let’s all be patient. The story is great so far. We have been waiting for almost three years and a half for this, let’s savor it.
I enjoyed reading the Kaladin chapters until that punch. Good move, Kal! Sucker punching a much older man who doesn’t appear to be sturdy and who seems to have undergone some change in behavior. After all, he has turned his home into a refuge for all these people, and is said by Kaladin’s parent(s) to be treating them better. That change may not compensate for the great damage that he had previously caused, but why does Kaladin feel the need to take vengeance at this time. It can only cause a great scene and fighting with Roshone’s soldiers. He will soon leave Hearthstone (or what’s left of it), but his parents may not follow since they are needed to care for the many injured. Why make life more difficult for them? Assuming that Roshone recovers from the blow received, he isn’t going to think too kindly of Kaladin’s parents. Moreover, Syl can’t be happy about this move just as she was very upset when Kaladin agreed to overlook the assassination plot against Elhokar. Punching out a former bad guy isn’t fulfilling his mission in life as a protector. Kaladin’s anger and bias against conventional lighteyes remains and may yet lead to further negative episodes
@284 – I just don’t understand at all why people think Syl won’t like that punch. Kaladin isn’t a saint, and he’s not Mother Teresa. He’s a warrior, a man of action. How many parshmen did he kill in battles on the shattered plains, and they were all “innocents” just trying to protect their people.
In comparison to that, punching a guy who objectively deserves far worse is nothing. I think Syl would actually approve it. Roshone isn’t someone Syl is going to like much. Now, she would definitely disapprove of Kal going off killing people based on vengeance. But a quick punch? I just don’t see it, at least if that’s the end of it. Presumably Kal isn’t going to do any further harm to him, and will go on to lead the town’s defense against the voidbringers and even protect those who don’t deserve it, exactly as Syl would like.
Also, a few people have commented that Roshone is now going to be angry and take it out on Kaladin’s parents, but he was going to be angry anyway. If he had felt a bit guilty about killing off both their sons, Kaladins return and their obvious joy at it was going to set him off regardless. Either way, I don’t see Kaladin just quickly leaving. I’m forseeing a long story arc with Kaladin leading the town (and perhaps others nearby) against the voidbringers and over time I think Roshone will either change, or be made irrelevant with all the villagers deciding to ignore him.
@276. Wow! That was very condescending. I’m a person over here with my own thoughts and opinions. This is an open blog post so I can post my thoughts and I still feel there are gaps. I don’t need story telling explained to me or why there’s typos explained to me again.
@283. Nicer regulated response, although a very long recapitulation.
Ill give that I have never read pre-releases like this before. I usually read a book straight through, well, not a few chapters a week. So, yes, I’m impatient. So I either gotta wait till November, or read these little teasers. And if I read the teasers and want to comment, I’ll comment. I’m not looking for someone to tell me how to read a book, I’m just trying to enjoy it.
Feedback is one thing. Putting me down is another. And I certainly felt that I was put down.
@285: I personally do not foresee a long story arc where Kaladin leads the survivors of Heartstone towards Kholinar. I understand it is a popular guess, but I really don’t see it happening. Why?
For one, the people of Heartstone are not resident of the Sadeas’s princedom, they do not have the right to travel. Boundaries may start to fall, but they aren’t falling this quickly. I do not see them agreeing to leave their home, even if destroyed, in order to make a several weeks long trek to the capital of another princedom in hope for what? To use an Oathgate towards a mystical city they never heard of? And for what? A threat which remains relatively distant?
For second, they have injured people. They aren’t going to be able to travel, not in the short term. No way Kaladin is staying in Heartstone for a prolonged period of time: he had a leave to go visit his family and warn them from the upcoming danger, he does not have a leave to stay there for the next months or so.
For third, Brandon explicitly stated he did not enjoy, as an author, writing travels. He specifically stated he would likely not write characters travelling from point A to point B. He said his story would happen within fixed locations. As we were able to observed, Kaladin’s trip home is not featured within the book. We see him leaving and then… we see him arriving.
All this makes me think the speculative story arc where Kaladin deals with trekking with Heartstone for the next weeks or so isn’t highly likely to happen. My prediction: Kaladin stays long enough to help Heartstone recover, he gives pointers on how they can defend themselves, he offers his warning and he promptly leaves a better equipped Heartstone to make his way back. Since he may spend more time then intended home, he may skip Kholinar and head back directly to Urithiru. I suspect he’ll be back by the end of part 1.
@286: Yeah, I understand how you feel. Had we gotten the whole book, all of us would have finished part 1 by now. Hence thoughts of the story not moving fast enough merely are a by-product of this pre-release read. Instead, let’s think of the opportunity to be able to craft speculations as we move along.
For the rest, my intend weren’t to put you down, but you aren’t the first one to make similar comments. I have read people say how terrible Adolin is for not having told his father yet, for nothing having happened yet with the murder case, for Shallan not doing anything and I am saying, let’s all relax. We read 6 chapters. Let’s all be patient enough to let the story unfold. I’m just as anxious as the next reader to see what will happen.
@284 Kalaxin
Roshone is a murderer. He sent two innocent old people to jail for the crime of running a business that was more successful than his, and they died there. When he was exiled for those murders, he didn’t repent of his crime. He did the same thing, again, when he deliberately sent a child of to war as a means of punishing his father for stealing spheres from him. Both actions were entirely legal, and both were murder in the moral sense, even if there was no way to bring charges in the courts.
Even if Roshone hasn’t done anything bad since then- even if he’s opened his home as a refuge for the townspeople- he’s still a murderer. That doesn’t just go away because he’s doing a decent job now. If I killed three people and the police caught up to me, I wouldn’t claim that they should let me go because I hadn’t murdered anybody in the last few years. If the brother of one of the people I murdered showed up, I hope I would have the decency to admit my guilt and beg for mercy rather than snidely commenting on his appearance. Given Roshone’s crimes and apparent lack of remorse, merely punching him is showing extraordinary restraint.
Roshone is a huge part of the reason that Kaladin doesn’t trust lighteyes, but Kaladin isn’t attacking a random lighteyes out of prejudice against their class. He’s attacking one particular man because that man murdered his brother. I think that you’re showing a lack of empathy here; if someone murdered your brother, I doubt that you would consider punching them disproportionate retribution.
I don’t think Syl will be upset by Kaladin punching Roshone, but it really doesn’t matter. He can make decisions without asking for her approval in advance. If she expects him to abandon his own judgement and do whatever an Ideal Windrunner would do, too bad. Kaladin is a man, not a mindless robot obeying Honor’s laws, and he should do what he thinks is right. In this case, that means punching Roshone for legally murdering his brother and Moash’s grandparents. Was it impractical? Possibly. Was it morally wrong? I don’t think so.
@288 And others.
Roshone was petty over the 1000 diamond chips. Turned the town against Kal’s family.
Roshone was mad and sent Tein away to die because his son died. Lirin could not save the boy. He did not even try to save the boy, in Roshone’s eyes. Roshone is an ass, but he was also a grieving father.
Edited to emphasize why Roshone picked Tein. It was not about the money at that point.
@286: Personally I saw no personal attacks in either response. I can see how you did not like the tone of voice you heard. But intended tone of voice of author is lost in text form on forums like this.
It’s fun seeing how everyone’s ideas are developing. That is a good thing of this forum.
I wasn’t going to comment but I’ve seen something ridiculous posted enough times that it became annoying.
I agree with the side that says Kaladin punching Roshone was uncalled for at best. However, the ridiculous part is saying that Syl will be angry or the bond will be stressed again.
The implied cause of the stressed bond in WoR was that Kaladin had made contradictory promises (oaths), first to Dalinar to protect him and his family (including Elhokar), and the second to Moash to help to assassinate Elhokar. This is said plainly while traveling out onto the plains before falling into the chasm, when Syl was reverting back to her more impish and less intelligent self, but became lucid enough to tell Kal he was being naughty and that he had to keep his promises, then Kal realized he had made the contradictory promises.
The lesser implied reason is that Elhokar was “innocent”. He was intending no harm to anyone, therefore it was wrong to kill him or allow him to be killed without at least trying to protect him.
Separately, mentioning Roshone’s past mistakes has no relevance at all, Kal is not a Skybreaker, it is not his place to exact justice or inflict punishment. That being said, I DO think Syl may have a problem if Kaladin suddenly summons her as a Shardblade when guards and whoever else get angry over Roshone being punched out and gains control of the situation with a scare tactic or in a tyrannical way.
And now since I’ve already typed out this long comment I didn’t intend to make, I’ll comment on the rest. I’m really interested in seeing this new apprentice and how she will regard Kaladin. I assume she is the one taking up Kal’s old room and I also assume Lirin and Hesina have taken her in and treat her as a daughter. At the very least I think its way more plausible than them having a third child and that being the big news Hesina tried to share.
Shallan once again being mentioned at first then never saying anything or being mentioned again in those scenes. At first I thought it was her illusion being tied to Pattern, but there’s not much, if any, stormlight to waste like that, Then thought maybe the reason she wasn’t mentioned again is that the illusion was only given a little stormlight at a time for that reason, then once the appearance was made the illusion would be released to not waste more, but I would hope at least one person would notice a person disappearing right in front of them. Then again, no one including Adolin seems to notice that the person who ALWAYS has something to say hasn’t uttered a single word in these scenes.
Finally, really hoping we get a Kaladin chapter next Tuesday, we still need to see the Laral reunion and find out where the Parshmen are and if they indeed changed into stormform or if something else is happening. And I’m wondering if there is any stormlight left at all in Hearthstone. I doubt it, but if Kal does have to fight even a handful of stormforms without stormlight to reinforce him, it should be a very tough fight, then at best he’ll be severely injured and have to wait for a highstorm to get stormlight to heal him before he can go to Kholinar.
Oh, almost forgot. Another thing said repeatedly that was getting annoying, about the guards from Bridge Seventeen slumping after the Stormfather left, why are some of you trying to read so much into it? I know its Sanderson but still, not everything is some conspiracy or secret. They’re charged with keeping Dalinar and his family alive. Then a giant face appears in the sky with a rumbling voice and there is literally nothing you could do to it. Of course you’d be emotionally drained after that, come on.
@287 – I never said I thought there would be a travel story arc with everyone going to Kholinar. I haven’t really been following along with all the speculation online, so I guess that’s a popular theory others have? Personally, I was thinking more of a Perrin-like arc from WoT where he goes back home and everyone starts following him. In this case, I think it would be an ideal way of getting Kaladin to understand leadership beyond bridge 4 and the perspective from a light-eyes position with everyone depending on him. Where that goes (Kholinar, Urithiru, or just them staying in place and Kal eventually leaving) I don’t know precisely.
@290: While I do agree with you on Kaladin, I disagree with you on Shallan, I have read this theory, elsewhere, but it seems to me readers are trying to read too much into Shallan not saying anything. There are no reasons why Shallan would be faking her presence, it makes no sense for her to do so and why would Brandon even use this ploy? I say the simplest explanation is often the best one: Shallan hasn’t contributed to the narrative, so far, because her character had nothing to contribute to it. She may have talked and said things, but not while Dalinar was listening.
This being said, surely we will get her POV next week, if not, then it will come.
@291: Quite popular, yes. The difference in between WoT and SA is WoT featured a lot of characters travelling while SA focuses on fixed locations. Having Kaladin walk the way from Heartstone to Urithiru or Kholinar is likely to take the entire time frame allocated to OB. I also do not really understand the rational being Heartstone even wanting to follow him… Heartstone is their home, why would they leave it? And to go where? Mind, I may be wrong, but I think Heartstone will stay… in Heartstone. There will be another Highstorm, Kaladin will re-charge his spheres and once he is satisfy Heartstone is doing fine, he’ll fly back. After all, he has a task, a job to get back to: he isn’t going to spend the next week walking with a bunch of villagers trailing after him.
@290 iRemedy
If becoming a Windrunner requires Kaladin to stop being a person, then there’s something seriously messed up with the Knights Radiant.
From Syl’s perspective, punching Roshone is “uncalled for” because he’s not currently threatening anyone. Since her focus is on protection, not justice, his past crimes don’t matter to her. Kaladin feels differently because Roshone murdered his brother. He handles some decisions himself, rather than asking his spren companion whether every choice he makes matches with a limited, black-and-white code that she can’t rationally defend. In this case, that means punching his brother’s murderer whether his spren likes it or not.
I sincerely hope that advancing as a Knight Radiant doesn’t require Kaladin to substitute Syl’s ethics for his own beliefs. That wouldn’t be a partnership, but a surrender of his own principles to the arbitrary judgement of a being that doesn’t actually understand humanity that well.
After the news of Jasnahs return i believe that Gavilar returning as Odiums champion is possible especially after the prolougue.
I’d considered the idea that Kaladin was not given a spanreed to Urithiru to be really stupid but whether he has one or not becomes secondary to the problem that he has no stormlight left until the next highstorm. Does anyone know if spanreeds need stormlight in their gems to work? I’d assume they do.
Then again they seem to not have any trouble using other spanreeds in Urithiru during the weeping, even if Shallan were charging them by transferring stormlight from larger gems the connected spanreed gems would still have run out during the weeping wherever they are.
“…godless heretic…” OH HI JASNAH I love her and her excerpts :)
And it looks like Syl remembers Tien, or maybe Tien had a spren, because I can’t imagine who or what else that voice would have belonged to
I don’t believe Kaladin has a sibling , his mother says ” … we had to dedicate you spot to something else”. And later Hesina says “…and there’s something we need to talk about. We”. I can’t imagine what it is that is in the room, what they need to talk about, but I think it’s something big to do with Lirin .
Elokar maybe the one to fall into Odiums hands. .??
@293 dptullos Man, you’ve hit the nail on the head with why I dislike the “Kaladin loses his powers” arc from WOR. That’s pretty much exactly how I felt!
Kaladin has a pretty solid chunk of his self-worth tied up in being a Knight Radiant, and he’s at risk of losing it any time he goes against Sylphrena’s ethics. In theory those ethics should line up with the Alethi Codes (and, more generally, a “warrior’s code of honor”).
@293
I believe it’s implied in WOR that Kaladin can only use his powers when performing tasks aligned with his Oaths. That probably goes for all the Orders to one extent or another but it seems like Honorspren are strict interpretationalists. I’m referring to the scene when Kaladin tries to show off only to have the power fail. He asks Syl about it and she asked him who he was protecting.
I brought this up because of the Roshone smash. I think Kaladin can punch whoever he wants to, but if it doesn’t align with his Oaths he cannot put Stormlight behind it. Punching an unarmored man while infused would likely kill the guy, especially at Kaladin’s level of Radiency. So Kaladin and by extension all Radients have free will, but their spren serve as at least a partial check on their use of the awesome power of Surges. No such thing as a free lunch, great power costs more to use, ect.
As far as a Radient substituting their spren’s ethical code for their own, I would think it likely that the spren doing the choosing hedges their bets in a way. Instead of choosing someone whose belief system is diametrically opposed to their own and trying to change that person, they choose someone whose moral code is close enough to their own that comprises can be made. The Nahel bond will change anyone who enters into it inevitably, it changes both parties. It makes sense to choose someone they can work with because if the spren try and fail they die (technically they lose sentience in the Physical Realm but they view this as the same thing). It makes even more sense because there is no way that we know of for the spren to violate their side of the deal like Kaladin almost did.
Edit:
@298
I cannot argue with an opinion. I’ll just say that there should be a high cost for violating an Oath you’ve made to someone whose life ends if you do so. As detestable as Elkohar was in the last book, Kaladin did make a promise. After he made a promise he willfully attempted to break said promise. At that point it’s not even about Elkohar, it’s about Kaladin giving his word and letting his charge believe he was keeping it while attempting to subvert it. If it were something arbitrary then I could agree with you. But it’s the deception as much as anything that weakened the bond. I think if Kaladin believed that it was wrong to protect the king (say he was murdering babies and drinking their blood or something over the top like that) he could break the promise with no penalty, though Syl might object to the plotting behind his back. Elkohar is unworthy of his crown but has not yet crossed the line of being unworthy of protection.
Does anyone find the wedding oaths strange? What did they actually promise? “I am his and he is mine”. Did they just become each others slave?
@299 I think that’s all very reasonable. Again, I’m not saying the writing is bad, or inconsistent, or “unrealistic” (inasmuch as anything can be unrealistic in fantasy literature etc etc). I just personally don’t care for that specific aspect of the story.
I’m very interested in seeing how the Oaths interact with the various Radiants. Windrunners are obviously very closely tied to Honor, so it makes sense that the Oaths are very important in their interaction with their Honorspren. Lightweavers are as far away from Honor as Windrunners are close to it, if you ascribe to the whole Double-Eye Honor/Cultivation theory, which I do. Lightweavers don’t have Oaths at all, beyond the first Ideal, they just have to tell their spren truths about themselves. I wonder if Shallan has her own personal failure conditions? IIRC, Pattern said that because Shallan was suppressing her memories, she couldn’t use Illumination as much as she should be able to. I wonder if that is because she was denying the truths she’d used to progress as a Lightweaver?
Which brings us to Edgedancers, who are on the Cultivation side of the Double-Eye but have Ideals very much like the Windrunners. Lift seems very personally dedicated to those Ideals, so I doubt we see much friction there (ha!) but if Adolin develops into an Edgedancer, it could very well be an issue.
At any rate. I have Many Thoughts, more news at eleven, haha.
You guys are so prolific with comments. This is remarkable. And all the speculation on here is a lot of fun, even if it is in large part stemming from a somewhat unnatural reading pattern.
Initial thoughts:
Good on you, Dalinar, for finally telling someone about not remembering Shshshsh! And also the information that got revealed about her in this chapter was so INTERESTING. I WANT TO KNOW MORE NOW. I definitely got the impression that his boon might have been forgetting her, but what if his boon was something more like getting over her death and then the curse was that that happened by forgetting her? I don’t know.
I was highly amused at Dalinar and Navani getting married by the Stormfather. That was great. Also, Adolin is so adorable.
After the wedding, when Dalinar was going over to Kadash, he was thinking such happy thoughts that for a minute I was terrified that Kadash would try to kill him and maybe even succeed. I hate how books can end up conditioning you to interpret someone feeling happy as a sign that something bad’s about to happen. This particular fear got assuaged pretty quickly, though.
KALADIN
KALADIN KALADIN KALADIN KALADIN
I mostly approve of the punch. He shouldn’t have done that, but yes, he should have. It’s probably going to create problems, and it seemed a bit hasty, but it was still storming wonderful. Someone needed to do that. And I really don’t think that this action comes under the jurisdiction of “I will protect even those I hate, so long as it is right”; I do not think there’s any particularly compelling reason that protecting Roshone could be considered “right”.
These preview chapters are awesome. These particular chapters made me insanely happy, particularly the last. Kaladin’s parents are just the best. I’ve missed Stormlight. I find that I’m now very fond of all the characters, even ones I wasn’t too excited about before, like Dalinar, and I keep getting all these Stormlight feels. I CANNOT WAIT for Oathbringer to be released.
Responses after reading the giant comment thread:
Re: Dalinar (possibly) killing his wife – You know, Navani didn’t mention anything about a terrible end to Shshshsh. Perhaps what really happened is something that only a few–such as Kadash–know, and most people, including Adolin and Renarin, heard a different version of what happened that day. Or maybe Navani just didn’t feel like she needed to tell Dalinar about everything that happened with her? But I feel like having the actual events of that day mostly covered up would explain a lot.
The parshmen clearly seem to have gotten out, but they don’t seem to have gone on a rampage. Are they heading somewhere? Do they have some innate urge to go somewhere after being turned into Voidbringers? If there are a lot of them gathering somewhere, this could be…bad. Very bad.
I picked up on the new sibling thing too. At first I was thinking that this new apprentice could be the new sibling, but then I realized that the chronology didn’t work. I somehow feel like Brandon Sanderson would give us only the surprise of a new apprentice or a new sibling, not both. It’s just a gut feeling.
It isn’t necessarily a given that the in-world Oathbringer has already been written. The epigraphs in HoA, for example, were written after at least most of the book had already happened.
I keep imagining Shallan as just standing there stiffly like a cardboard cutout with a smile plastered on her face. I think we’re about due for a Shallan viewpoint. I really like her after WoR and want to see what she’s up to.
Reading through, I was just randomly wondering what the reputation of the Weeping was before the Recreance, when running out of Stormlight would have been a bigger deal generally. It would be really interesting if it was known as some sort of “time of evil”, when the Radiants were weaker and bad things more easily happened, because of that.
@59 Lisamarie – I had a moment of that too. It’s a rather strange idea, to say the least.
The plan was that Kaladin goes to Kholinar and opens the Oathgate there, and he can visit his parents on the way.
It doesn’t make sense for Kaladin to take a spanreed because as a man he can’t write anyway.
@298: Kaladin lost his powers, back in WoR, not because he wanted to kill Elhokar to protect the people, but because he did it after having sworn he would protect him. He made contradicting oaths, but had the circumstances been different, he might have gotten away with it.
@299: Just a small precision, the scene you are referring to, the one where Kaladin momentarily loses his powers, is when he tries to duel Adolin. He wanted to use surgebinding just to humiliate Adolin, for no other reason than he disliked the man. He wasn’t protecting anyone, he was completely in the wrong and Syl made sure he understood she will not allow him to use his power to dominate, to beat people just because he hates their face. He can still do it, but not while using surgebinding.
For the rest, I agree with your post. It was well said.
@301: Adolin becoming an Edgedancer would be such an interesting and fascinating growth for him. It is one thing to have a street orphan formally thief to figure out how to “remember the forgotten” and how to “listen to the forgotten”, she is one of the forgotten, but to have prince Adolin Kholin make the same decision? This is so much better. I mean no disrespect towards Lift, but her learning curve seemed rather small.
Needless to say I am a huge fervent of this theory. I find it fits Adolin’s character in a brilliant innovative unsuspected way. My thoughts are the more popular theory wanting Adolin to become a Dustbringer is relatively boring: where is the growth? What is the interest? Having Adolin blow up things? Because he already is a soldier, let’s give him the most destructive powers ever? Have him learn how to be what? More brave? More obedient?
Having Adolin learn how to care for those below him, to listen to them, to remember them while having just enough power to turn deadly while getting one which allows him something completely out of the box for him: learning how to heal. This, I find oh so interesting.
On Dalinar perhaps killing his wife: It is obvious to me the boys do not know the entire truth and if depending on how events played out, it may be nobody knows the entire truth but Dalinar and Kadash. Mind, it may be Dalinar did not accidentally kill his wife, but I suspect he did something terrible that day, something his sons might hold against him, shall they ever learn the truth.
@303: Wasn’t the plan for Kaladin to go to his family, then stop by Kholinar, if possible, to see what is happening there? As far as I know, nothing was ever said on Kaladin working out how to open the oathgate. Even if he does go to Kholinar, he may not even have access to it.
My current thoughts are Brandon will not keep Kaladin away from the main cast forever: he will be heading back to Urithiru. He won’t spend the entire book away and going to Kholinar, investigate the rebellion and working out how to open the oathgate, considering all the opposition he would meet while trying to do so, even providing he can figure it out, seems like a story which may happen after he heads back to Urithiru.
Wow, so many posts…
I had a crazy idea, about the boon/curse for Dalinar. I don’t know if the books make it clear that he went to the Nightwatcher AFTER his wife died.
If not, what if the curse was that he forgets his wife, while she was still alive. Then he goes home to find a “strange woman” with his children and when he tries to get her out she tries to take the kids and things get ugly. Then after the fact the guy who later becomes an ardent (forget his name, too many start with K) informs him that it was his wife he just killed.
Now that I wrote it down it seems pretty implausible, and it might even be contradicted by something in these chapters, but it’s possible. Maybe the Nightwatcher would feel bad about causing that and he can get a free extra boon?
Also, on the 17th shard I think there is a Word of Brandon that says that you don’t necessarily get what you ask for from the Nightwatcher, it’s not like the Monkey’s Paw, where you get the letter of what you asked, but not the way you expected, it’s more that you ask for something and the Nightwatcher gives you what she thinks is best.
Going to make a prediction here. Kaladin’s goal (after having reunited with his family) will now be to get the people of Hearthstone to Urithuru. So despite the punch to the face (for Moash, Roshone needs a few more for Tien and for Kaladin himself), nobody in the town has the power to do anything to him. Both literally, and because he outranks them all. He’s going to want to get them all to the Oathgate in Alethkar. Is that in Kholinar… I’m not sure. Which means, he’s very likely to meet up with the other radiant that’s going to be there. The one on the cover of the book!
I feel that Kaladin lost his powers because he was committing to doing something he subconsciously disagreed with something he knew was wrong not the spren or orders view of right and wrong.
He knew trying to assassinate the king was wrong it didn’t matter the oaths he took, regardless if they were conflicting, which is why he lost his powers and syl became less intelligent.
I apologise I’m having trouble trying to phrase this properly but essentially what I’m saying is it’s his own view of honor rather then the windrunners or honor spren view of honor that truly matter.
I read pretty far in the comments, but I’d like to add a deeper thought regarding the punch. To begin with, Kaladin has the ability to think. So I believe that during his flight, he had to have at least thought about how to deal with Roshone. So what has Roshone done, or at least come about because of him? Well, first think of Moash. Kaladin trusted Moash and basically made him his second. So Kaladin cares for Moash and trusted him, and so when he learned what Roshone did to his grandparents, he felt his pain because of Kaladin own past dealings with Roshone. If Roshone hadn’t been so petty and greedy, not only would Tien not have died, but Moash also wouldn’t have tried to kill the king, and he wouldn’t have been put on an opposing side to Kaladin. So I think that there was plenty of reason on that side to allow Kaladin to punch the man.
BUT, there is so much good that has come because of Roshone! To begin with, Kaladin joined the army, and then later became a slave, due in large part to Roshone. Now as a slave, he eventually makes it to bridge 4, where he begins to really change. He comes to care for those men and bring a strength not seen elsewhere. This allowed him to be broken enough to be able to accept the naheal bond, and thus begin the journey to becoming radiant. He then impressed Dalinar enough to convince him to give up his shardblade to purchase all of the bridgemen. On and on, everything that Kaladin now is is due in large part to Roshone. Now whether or not Kaladin will look deep enough into himself to understand this, time will tell.
But I think that he is coming to understand that he does owe Roshone on some level, and this leads me to think that he won’t simply show off syl and take over. First, I’m not sure he wants to share her with everyone yet, remember that he has only very recently opened up to Dalinar, so give him some more time before revealing everything. I do think however that he will try to get Roshone to recognize what he has done and make restitution, and then work to actually change things for the better. Have to keep in mid Kaladin mind about light eyes, and he won’t want to be like them, so he may try to work things out in his own way.
Sorry for the long post, lots of thoughts in my head.
@299 EvilMonkey
I’m definitely not suggesting that Syl has to provide Kaladin with access to her power when he does something she disapproves of. An arrangement where he is free to act and she is free to withhold support is entirely reasonable. However, that’s not the relationship they have.
There’s an entire code of ethics tied into being a Windrunner, and Kaladin didn’t know about the code when he signed up. By the time he starts to have problems with the limitations of the Windrunner Code, he’s already in a position where breaking the Code would kill Syl. If both Kaladin and Syl had gone into the bond with full knowledge of what it meant, that would be one thing. Instead, he finds out that breaking the rules could kill Syl when he’s already started down a path towards breaking the rules. That makes for a good story, but a bad contract.
I don’t think that spren can compromise in the same sense that humans can. Each order’s spren embodies the rules of that order, and they can’t break the rules any more than ordinary people can defy the law of gravity. You’re quite right to say that Syl can’t violate her side of the deal, but Kaladin signed up without knowing what the deal actually was, and he’s powerless to renegotiate. Even though she’s being honest with him, he simply doesn’t have the knowledge to make an informed decision until backing out requires him to murder his partner.
You make an excellent point about Elkohar, though. If Kaladin is allowed to break his word to protect people, then the bond is reasonable; he’s still allowed to disobey the letter of the law to uphold its spirit, and he’s not trapped by promises made with incomplete information or in different circumstances. The Windrunners have to “protect” rather than seeking vengeance, but they are allowed to be flexible in their means as long as the intent to protect is there.
@308 Hirinjay
I agree that Kaladin is who he is because of the choices he made in circumstances that Roshone placed him in. He would never have been “broken” if he’d stayed at home and been a surgeon’s assistant. But the fact that good results can come out of evil actions doesn’t make the evil actions less evil. If I throw someone down a well and they find a hidden treasure, they’re not going to emerge and thank me for helping them find a treasure; they’re going to be furious at me for throwing them down a well.
Roshone is responsible for what he tried to do; he didn’t and couldn’t foresee Kaladin’s role as the protector of Bridge Four, or as a Knight Radiant, so he receives no credit for those results. The only result he could foresee was Tien being murdered when he sent him off to war, which was the point of sending him.
I doubt that Kaladin is interested in “restitution” from Roshone. His brother and Moash’s grandparents are dead, and there’s nothing Roshone can do to change that. There’s no way to make restitution for taking a life.
@309: I am among those readers who do not consider Roshone murdered Tien. He sent him to war as a young teenager, not overly frequent, but not unheard of as illustrated by the fact they managed to make a whole squad of young teenage boys. Tien was to serve for four years after which he was allowed to either sign another contract or come back home. While it may be Roshone internally thought Tien had no chances of survival, he can’t have guessed the outcome: not every boy which joins the army dies. Sending someone to the army is not a death sentence: it was mean, it was vengeful, but Roshone still did not kill Tien. He merely put him into a situation where his survival could be compromised. I read those actions as very different than outright murder or equivalent to the man who used up Tien’s untrained squad to get a minor advantage.
@310 Gepeto
He gloated about murdering him in front of his parents and brother! Out of all the people in the village he could have sent, Roshone picked Tien as a means of revenge against Lirin for failing to save his son. Roshone is in charge of drafting the people of his village to serve the war effort, but he’s not choosing on the basis of the war effort; he’s making a decision based on who he wants dead. Legally, he’s in the clear; morally, this is no different from kidnapping his enemy’s son and dropping him off in a war zone. In either case, the child might survive, but the intent is clearly that they die, even if the result isn’t guaranteed.
What matters here is not the legality of Roshone’s actions, but his intent. If he’d drafted Tien by random chance, or because he thought he would be the best candidate, then he would just be bowing to the inevitable and giving the army the soldiers they demand. Instead of choosing by chance or need, he went with the vulnerable younger son of his hated enemy. Even Amaram is shocked by his vindictiveness and the open, hateful glee that he shows to Lirin.
If I put a hole in the bottom of my enemy’s boat before he went out to see, I wouldn’t be “killing” him. I would merely be “putting him into a situation where his survival would be compromised”. Surely that wouldn’t be a crime? After all, there’s no guarantee that he will die, and if he’s a strong enough swimmer, he might be able to make it back to shore.
Roshone’s actions are legal. Everyone, including Amaram, considers them morally depraved, and recognizes that Roshone is abusing the law to commit open murder in a way that can’t be punished. He has a habit of doing that kind of thing. You could ask Moash’s grandparents…no, wait, you couldn’t ask them. They committed the terrible crime of having a business that competed with Roshone, just as Tien committed the crime of being related to Lirin.
Fortunately, Kaladin is not a legalist, and he has a certain amount of skepticism about a system created by powerful lighteyes that allows powerful lighteyes to do as they please without consequences. Hence the punch.
@311: I am not arguing as to whether or not Roshone’s decision was petty nor selfish nor vengeful, but I am arguing against stating his killed Tien. He didn’t. I would also argue he did not kill Moash’s grand-parents: he put them into prison, but them dying has other caused. You could state they would have never been into prison had it not been for Roshone, which is true, but I would argue they would have never died had their caused been heard before and had the jailers did their job professionally.
The same goes for Tien, he wouldn’t have died had his superior officers not want to use him as a spear fodder. Roshone is to blame for him being there in the first place, but he did not kill him. He put him into a position where he had high chances of dying, but let’s be honest so did Dalinar with his men and son. So again, while I do hate Roshone and I do support Kaladin punching him, I do not agree in saying Roshone has killed with his own hands Tien nor that he is responsible for Kaladin becoming a slave. What he did he extract revenge by sending a young boy to the army, the outcome however isn’t his responsibility.
@312 Gepeto
This is an imaginative defense. No, Your Honor, I didn’t kill a man by putting a hole in his boat! The water killed him. I didn’t kill a man by sabotaging his airplane; the ground did it! Just because I dropped a man in the Sahara Desert with no water or shade doesn’t mean I murdered him; he could have walked a hundred miles to the nearest well without a map.
Roshone did everything in his power to keep Moash’s grandparents from having an actual hearing in front of a magistrate; he convinced Elkohar to put them in jail and keep them there indefinitely. They weren’t heard before because Roshone actively prevented them from being heard. It didn’t matter whether it took them a week or a month or a year to die in jail, because Roshone was quite willing to keep them there as long as necessary.
I presume that Dalinar isn’t drafting the children of his enemies to send them to the front lines as an act of personal revenge. When he puts his men and his son in a position where they could die, he does so because he believes that it’s necessary, not as a way to get back at their parents. Tien’s superior officers are responsible for the way they treated him, but it’s Roshone who sent a boy to die for the sole purpose of hurting his father.
I don’t hold Roshone responsible for Kaladin becoming a slave, just as I don’t hold him responsible for Kaladin becoming a Radiant. Both outcomes were beyond his ability to predict or control. I do hold him responsible for the outcome that he could predict, which was Tien’s death. Since it was also an outcome that he desired, I think it’s fairly similar to dropping a boy in the Sahara and telling him to find his own way out. Yes, it’s possible that he could survive, but the entire purpose of doing it is the probability that he won’t.
@309
According to the rules of the bond, Syl literally cannot tell Kaladin about the full extent of the consequences before the bond is formed; she can’t explicitly explain them because she doesn’t really know them, won’t know them until she gains more sentience in the Physical Realm. It may be a bad contract but both sides are disadvantaged by the arrangement. This is why I say the spren hedge their bets while in the Cognitive Realm where they presumably have sentience. They bet their lives in choosing the right candidate, the one who can adhere to the limitations of their particular Order without foreknowledge of the consequences.
With that in mind two questions come up in regards to the Syl/Kaladin pairing. Was Kaladin wrong in attempting to betray his oaths to protect Elkohar? And did Syl pick the right guy to bond? If Kaladin was really right in choosing to betray his oath then the Order is too restrictive for his moral code and thus Syl chose wrong. By this interpretation Syl got lucky this once but Kal will eventually kill her. But if Syl chose the right guy then she picked a guy who would realize eventually that his actions were not only wrong but go against everything he stands for. She therefore has faith that he will realize his error and find a way to set matters to rights. A person who will risk his life to do the right thing, the same as his spren is the person she identified in the Cognitive Realm as one worthy to receive the Nahel bond from the Windrunners. If Syl chose right then she was right to believe that Kaladin, had he known what the bond entailed, would still choose to do it, consequences and all.
@313: I have said it before and I will say it again: we only heard one side of the story. I also strongly disagree a sentence to jail is the equivalent of a sentence to death. If it is automatically the case, within Alethkar, then the story needs to make it clear it is. Roshone sentenced people to jail, but a jail sentence isn’t the same as a death sentence nor is it the same a sinking a boat. I disagree the analogy is valid.
I also disagree sending a boy to the army is a death sentence. His death is not guaranteed, his officers decide in which way he will serve: they are to blame if he was put into a battle situation before being properly trained. I disagree Tien’s death was a predictable outcome: he could have very well survived. He could have been used in other ways but battle, he could have been trained properly before he was asked to fight: a great deal lot of things could have happened which aren’t of Roshone’s jurisdiction. What he did is extract vengeance on a man he perceives as guilty of letting his son die by sending his son to the war. It was petty, vengeful, mean, but it was not a death sentence, not within the strict sense of the term. At this point and onward, the outcome of Tien’s servitude into the army was entirely within the arms of his commanding officers: they are the one who send him to his death.
While I do not disagree with your statement saying Roshone is responsible for sending a boy to the war to spite his parents, the outcome of the decision was out of his hands. It needed not being death.
@314: My personal thoughts are, while I do like Kaladin, Syl picked badly. She picked a man whom was so broken he was nearly beyond redemption. So while yes you need to be broken to become a Radiant, one can be too broken to be able to maintain the oaths. I am thinking Kaladin and Shallan are walking onto this thin line, the line in between killing their sprens or progressing. Luckily, Kaladin seems to have move out of the danger zone, for now.
@315
I would like to float a premise before I make my next points. I believe the spren knew the Desolation was coming much sooner than humankind. I believe that the spren can fight Odium in the Cognitive Realm but it will be a battle that is doomed to fail. I believe that if Odium chooses a champion that the only entity that will be able to stand against the OC will have as a prerequisite a Nahel bond.
If all these turn out to be true then the spren we see present day, Pattern and Sylphrenia, Windle and Ivory, Glys and any spren we have yet to encounter are doing their part to battle Odium,the Unmade and the Voidbringers. Due to the limitations placed on them by Ishar, the only way for them to contribute to the War Effort is to form bonds with humanity in a very specific way, a way that risks their idea of life. This is despite the fact that many have reason to believe they will be ended by their own bondmate. The events of the Recreance do not give many of them hope that they will survive the process of turning making a KR.
One problem is, if the spren wish to fight their choices are to fight an ultimately losing battle in Shadesmar, where even if they win all humans would likely die and cut off their access to the Physical Realm. Or they can bond people that are broken, for there are no cracks in the soul for them to fit in a person who is whole. If they want to fight they must take a risk, for all broken people constitute a risk from their standpoint, maybe people period. If Syl and Pattern and all the rest chose the wrong vessels then who would be the right ones? Hell are there any right ones? Is there any such thing as the perfect bondmate for each Order? Another problem. We don’t yet know whether this razor’s edge these human characters are walking on between holding to their Oaths and killing their bondmates is typical for the bond or a product of new Radients emerging without guidance from someone who has taken the Journey previously. We don’t yet have that information but I’m sure we will see more to point us in one direction or another. I personally think Syl, Windle and Ivory chose right while I’m less sure about Pattern and cannot guess about Glys at all.
So what if he hit Roshone! He is totally grabbing his parents and flying them back to Urithiru anyway. Kal is far beyond the small town life. Maybe some resistance from Dad, as he will feel obligated to the town jerks, but yea, they are outta there.
If Kal were to now summon his shardblade, that would be completely a cheap move and in my opinion dishonorable.
I’ve enjoyed reading through all of the many perspectives and theories here. Can’t say I agree with all of them, but it was interesting to read them and at least I can understand where everyone’s coming from.
Personally, I believe that Kaladin was justified in punching Roshone. I also believe that the text was trying to show, without telling, that the punch was intentional and planned out, not just a spur-of-the-moment punch. This was displayed by the whole “perfect punch” and “for Moash” stuff.
I also completely disagree that Roshone was in any way justifiable as far as his actions to Tien, and Moash’s grandparents. Why? His intent. He was doing it to cause hurt, doing it because he was an arrogant yet important man who could. I would say that it seems apparent that he himself would agree – after all, according to Hestina, he became ‘better’ after word got back that they died; he felt guilty. (I realize that one could argue that at this point he felt justified, and that was why. This is just my opinion, though.)
As far as Kaladin owing Roshone in any way for becoming a radiant, I also disagree. He went to protect his brother, so Roshone didn’t make him – he chose to. Yet he also chose to because of Roshone’s actions. It’s a bit of an odd angle but this is how I see it.
Re: Kaladin’s bond – IMO part of the issue is that Our Heroes are developing with no guidance, as EvilMonkey suggested at 316. I’m betting that prior to the Recreance, there was some level of training, and conflicting interests like this would have been extremely rare. This time, each of our developing Radiants is on their own, as far as they know, with the exception of the brief time Shallan has Jasnah as a Radiant mentor as well as being her ward. Since the spren lose most of their memories in the transition, there’s really no one to help them along or understand what the process should look like.
The other thing I want to point out, though, is that Kaladin himself came to the conclusion that he was wrong – he was going against what he really believed. Sure, the fact that there was a problem was strongly emphasized by the loss of his bond, but it was while he was without Syl that he realized that it wasn’t enough for him to only protect the people he likes. So I don’t think it’s a matter of him not living up to Sylphrena’s code; he wasn’t living up to his own code. IMO, Syl chose well, but Kaladin’s previous issues made him too sympathetic to Moash’s vengefulness and, without anyone else he could trust as a sounding board, he made a bad choice. He knew he was making the wrong choice; what he didn’t know was that it would destroy his bond.
@308 – I’m sorry, but Kaladin doesn’t ‘owe’ Roshone anything. He did his best to place Tien in a position where he would be hurt, which happened (*) Kal went to war on his own, but even had he also be drafted all the ‘positive’ consequences of that are on Kaladin, not Roshone. Does Kaladin also owe something to Amaram, since by making him a slave he enabled him to discover his Radiant power? Of course not. Everything Kaladin has accomplished after the death of his brother and during his time as a slave is because of his own abilities; he got where he is *despite* the adverse circumstances in his life, not because of them. He overcome the situation he ended up in (mostly due to Amaram’s actions) and the trauma of his brother’s death (due to Roshone’s). Giving Roshone even a hundredth of the credit for Kaladin becoming a Radiant is a disservice to Kaladin’s character.
(*) About Tien – I’ve seen people say that what Roshone did was lawful because it was within his rights in retribution for a crime. Actually, what Roshone did was spiteful as heck and as far as he know not lawful because, as WoK tells us, Roshone has no idea if Lirin stole the spheres or not. There were not witnesses and no proof. He simply decided to pick on a darkeyed family because he was bitter he’d been exiled. He is (used to be?) an horrid, spiteful petty bully.
Well, I’m just glad some conflicting thoughts in my head could help spark such lively discussion haha.
Chapter 6 brought tears to my eyes twice. Once for Kaladin’s reunion with his parents and once for the punch. Excellent!
I’ve just re-read the prologue from TWoK and in previous readings overlooked or dismissed this passage:
The king coughed. “You can tell…Thaidakar…that he’s too late….”
“I don’t know who that is,” Szeth said, standing, his words slurring from his broken jaw. He held his hand to the side, resummoning his Shardblade.
The king frowned. “Then who…? Restares? Sadeas? I never thought…”
“My masters are the Parshendi,” Szeth said. Ten heartbeats passed, and his Blade dropped into his hand, wet with condensation.
“The Parshendi? That makes no sense.” Gavilar coughed…
– “The Way of Kings” by Brandon Sanderson
The bold and underline is my emphasis.
This has probably been covered in other sites or other comments but Gavilar seems to know that Sadeas was part of one of the cabals on Roshar. I have not seen or heard about any secret society that Sadeas might have been a member of, but, if it’s true, then it does raise some interesting possibilities.
We know that one of the societies is already in The big U (sorry can’t spell it and I’m not going to look it up right now) and if Sadeas’s wife is also familiar or a member of whatever Sadeas may have been involved with then there could be two secret societies working surreptitiously in The big U.
Sadeas doesn’t need a secret society to be ambitious and want to become king himself.
@323 – I don’t think that passage necessarily means Sadeas was in a secret society. Just that he was someone Gavilar thought could have potentially wanted to assassinate him (in order to take the throne, presumably).
@319 – Yes, I was thinking the same thing. I think it’s been speculated before that the rules around the bonding were actually setup originally by the bondsmiths long ago, rather than the spren themselves, and presumably the Radiants of old new all the rules. It’s only the current crop who are having to rediscover everything from scratch with no help.
Also, I thought WoR was pretty clear that it was Kaladin’s beliefs that caused the strain on Syl – he could kill the Parshendi to protect his friends because he felt that was the right thing to do. Syl “died” because he knew that killing Elhokar was wrong after giving his word of protection, but if he had truly decided the killing the king was the correct course of action I think he could have been upfront about it (publicly state that he was no longer going to protect him) and everything would have been ok. Syl might not have helped him by providing him any powers if it truly wasn’t about saving people rather than vengeance, but I think she would have been safe herself.
@316 – I think that’s all been pretty well laid out in the books, actually, so there’s not a lot of premise involved. The spren have decided to bond humans again as a last resort to try and stop Odium and it sounds like they are pretty much resigned to dying themselves. At least, some of them appear to think that way. Maybe the others are more hopeful.
@315 – We’ve actually heard two sides of the story. One from Moash and another from a presumably neutral 3rd party (Dalinar). And we have firsthand knowledge of Roshone’s temperament to make it all sound pretty likely. While I can somewhat see your point about jail not necessarily being a death sentence (is permanently kidnapping people so much better though?), I think you’re way off the mark when it comes to putting Tien in the army. This isn’t a modern day western army where entire wars are fought with minimal casualties. In the old days, the army was a meat grinder. Human life had very little value, and grunts did not survive very long unless they were just lucky. Even Amaram could tell at a glance that Tien was particularly unsuited for that kind of life, and wasn’t going to last long. You are probably right in that it wouldn’t be considered “murder 1” in that he had a chance to survive. But that’s what murder in the 2nd degree is for – “a killing caused by dangerous conduct and the offender’s obvious lack of concern for human life.” I doubt you’d be parsing the definition of murder so closely if it was your relative involved rather than a fictional character.
What Roshone did with Tien was exactly the same as what King David did with Bathsheba’s husband in 2 Samuel when he sent Uriah to the front lines. Roshone’s intention was to get Tien killed. And intention is what defines an act of killing as murder in our society, both legally and morally. So, by our standards, what Roshone did was murder, because his intention was to kill Tien. Would Alethi Lighteyed society view it as murder, however? Certainly not legally. Perhaps not even morally. I think the Dalinar at the beginning of tWoK would find it distasteful, but not murder. I think the Dalinar who bonded the Stormfather wouldn’t hesitate to call it murder.
What Roshone had done to Moash’s grandparents wasn’t murder, however. He had his friend throw them in jail on trumped up charges to get them out of his way. There was no intention for them to die. That’s not murder in our Western culture. It might be termed manslaughter, perhaps, or even homocide through negligence, but it isn’t murder. In any case, it wasn’t Roshone who did it–it was Elhokar.
Aww c’mon hasn’t it been Monday everywhere yet? Timezones :(
Why are people so worried about Kaladin getting in trouble? I know there will be a bit of tension arising from hitting Roshone but I don’t expect much. I’m quite certain Kaladin has a writ or something of that kind from Dalinar giving him some authority. Especially since Dalinar wants Kaladin stop by Kholinar.
Also a quick span reed will verify Kaladin’s identity.
@326 – great analogy. I am firmly in the
‘Roshone is guilty for Tien’s death’ camp even if he didn’t literally kill him. He knew that was what was most likely going to happen, and furthermore, that is WHY he did it. He wished to cause Kaladin’s family pain by killing their son and did everything he could legally in his power to make it likely. I went back and searched for that passage and the Hebrew God didn’t view Daniel as any less guilty of murder either. In fact, he (well, his prophet) specifically says “You struck down Uriah the Hittite with the sword and took his wife to be your own. You killed him with the sword of the Ammonites”. Granted, his punishment ends up being the death of his own son, which seems grossly unfair to both the baby and Bathsheba after all the crap she went through but…take it for what it’s worth, Hebrew scripture would also call this scenario murder.
Moash’s grandparents might be a little more iffy, but I guess I don’t know the general conditions of Alethi jails and if that kind of neglect could be common. But it definitely shows a complete disregard for what COULD happen to them or their rights (although Elkohar also bears some guilt here).
@@@@@ 303 Birgit. It does not matter if Kaladin (as a male) cannot use a spanreed himself, he just needs to get someone, preferably someone he trusts, to take his dictation. Any male can ‘use’ a spanreed by just hiring someone to operate it.
The idea that they would send one of the four most important people in the world away, during a crisis, with no method of communication at all, when such a thing can easily be arranged, is downright stupid.
Let me start by commenting on a graphic biblical chapter, since it has been alluded to. One of the many virtues of the bible is that it doesn’t treat its heroes as unfailingly honorable or moral. They exhibit such failings as are characteristic of mankind. David is clearly a biblical hero and the ancestor of the Judean royal family, but his failings are described graphically in the story of his lust for Bathsheba and its consequences. He not only took a woman who was ostensibly married to one of his officers, Uriah, but had the man deliberately placed in a spot of great danger on the battlefield after Uriah refused to play along with the deception that he was the father of Bathsheba’s expected child. King David sent a command to his army head to place Uriah in the forefront of the army and to withdraw troops around him when they were confronted with the enemy. This is a deliberate effort to kill the man, and David was severely lectured by the prophet and divinely punished for the crime.
Roshone’s evil vis-à-vis drafting Tien, a boy unsuitable for the military, was less severe. He had no expectation that the boy definitely wouldn’t survive – particularly when Amaram assured Tien’s parents that he would be used as a messenger rather than a combatant. Roshone’s evil was his intent to cause the parents grief, as made explicit when he exclaimed, “even better”, after Kaladin volunteered to join the army in order to protect his kid brother. If he intended to cause the death of his elderly competitors, Moash’s grandparents, by having them placed in a dungeon, then Elhokar was equally guilty of authorizing such imprisonment. Furthermore, Elhokar initially sentenced Kaladin to die for his temerity in challenging a high-placed Lighteye, Amaram, to a duel. Such offense, in his mind, more than nullified Kaladin’s bravery and effectiveness in saving Elohokar’s nephews in that unequal duel. No wonder that Kaladin despised that judgment and his other failings as a king. Yet, his mission was to protect even those whom he hated, if it was the correct thing to do.
This lesson that restored his bond to Syl was apparently forgotten when he sucker-punched Roshone. No warning, no justification – just BAM! To me, that was a cowardly and dishonorable act, as well as dumb. It just reinforced the general impression among those taking refuge in Roshone’s house that Kaladin was a thug. Hardly the way to exercise leadership and to lead the inhabitants to a safer place. I doubt that Syl will cooperate in the latter mission by turning into a glowing shardblade. Kaladin should, however, be capable of handling any soldiers who would attack him – unless someone surreptitiously hits him from behind. In any case, I don’t see them trooping behind him to Urithru. That journey of 1100 miles would take some 40 days or more. They would run into highstorms from the east and west, and, possibly, Voidbringers. I see Kaladin leaving alone after a proper highstorm recharges his father’s (really Laral’s) spheres and he leads them to a suitable cave in the region.
Just a random thought on the debate of who the author of the epigraphs are and if Sanderson is pulling our leg in it not being Jasnah.
The other series of Sanderson’s that had epigraphs was the original Mistborn series where the running theme was There’s always another secret. That is we the readers and the people within the world shouldn’t always trust what we see and read. This was evident with Ruin changing the prophecies and the reveals that the Lord Ruler wasn’t the one who wrote the epigraphs like the characters thought.
However there’s always another secret isn’t the theme of the Stormlight Archive. I’m not too sure what that theme is yet, but it’s definitely not There’s always another secret. In Words of Radiance we had Navani’s journal talking about Jasnah in the epigraphs. This was set up fairly quickly if I remember correctly. So, I think the initial thought that this is Jasnah writing the epigraphs is correct. We don’t need to look for Sanderson trickery here like we did in the Mistborn series.
However if the epigraphs are from the book Oathbringer is another question all together.
It says the are from the preface of Oathbringer, right after each quote. not sure I understand what you are trying to say.
@333 I completely missed that. ^_^ So it means absolutely nothing beyond I need to skim less.
@29 Lirin mentions an apprentice named Mara. Maybe she is living in Kaladin’s old room.
@331 Kalaxin
Roshone literally cackles with glee when he realizes that he’s going to be able to send both of Lirin’s children into a war zone. He’s not hoping for them to come back safe and sound; Roshone wants them to die so that he can make Lirin suffer. Even if Roshone can’t guarantee that Tien and Kaladin will die, his intent is what matters here. He’s sending a small child into danger for the sole purpose of hurting the child’s father, and he’s overjoyed when Kaladin volunteers to accompany Tien, since that means he can hope for the death of all of Lirin’s children.
Elkohar’s guilt isn’t in question. He sent an elderly couple to the dungeons, denying them even a trial before a magistrate, because his good buddy Roshone asked him to. If Kaladin had punched Elkohar, I would have cheered. The problem is that Kaladin was planning to murder Elkohar, not just deliver a well-deserved beating. Kaladin didn’t lose his bond to Syl for detesting Elkohar, and I doubt he would have suffered for punching him. He lost his bond because he was planning to murder a man he had promised to protect, without any justification except vengeance.
I believe that the justification for punching Roshone would be that he murdered Kaladin’s brother. If someone murdered my brother, and I only retaliated by punching them, I would consider that extremely merciful. As for “cowardly” and “dishonorable”, fair fights are for idiots. Kaladin has proven his courage many times, and he thankfully doesn’t subscribe to the lighteyes ideal of “honor”. If he decides a man needs to be punched, he isn’t going to provide him with advance warning.
You seem to want Kaladin to behave like an Ideal Windrunner, rather than an actual human being. As a person, he knows that Roshone is morally responsible for the murder of Tien and Moash’s grandparents, and he’s going to act on that understanding. He has enough restraint not to outright murder Roshone, no matter how badly the man deserves it, but asking for more is unrealistic. Unless Kaladin was a Lirin-style pacifist, dedicated to healing rather than harming, he was always going to take revenge, and Roshone is lucky that he showed as much control as he did.
We learn from WoR that the 10-heartbeat waiting period for the shardblade to appear is because the dead spren needs to be temporarily animated to appear as the blade, usually wet with condensation due to the zombie spren crossing over from Shadesmar.. We also learn that in the case of the KR, the live spren turn instantaneously into the blade, so no 10-heartbeat waiting period is necessay. Finally, we learn that Szeth’s blade is an Honorblade, which is NOT a spren, dead or otherwise.
So why would Szeth’s Honorblade take 10 heartbeats to appear, and is wet with condensation? A clear error by the author? Possible answer: at the time he wrote the prologue for tWoK Brandon had not yet thought through the differences between the Blades (or, less likely, had not yet decided that Szeth was carrying an Honorblade). As Brandon is always so meticulous in his planning of the minutest details, this answer is not quite satisfying.
@337
Maybe it took the 10 heartbeats because Szeth expected it to take that long.
I really hope we get a Kaladin chapter tomorrow. The suspense. The tension! The Ahmgwhynobutargh! But I wouldn’t be surprised if we get Shallan or Adolin and Dalinar instead. That would be good too. I’ll just have to hang by my fingertips from this storming cliff for another week. Or two.
@337 nice observation, seems most likely author error to me. Though I don’t think we’ve seen any other honor blades so do we know if they don’t also take 10 seconds?
I know the whole 10 seconds is “primarily a thing of the dead” but that doesn’t seem to necessarily preclude the possibility of honorblades having the delay as well.
@338 I’d love to get another Kaladin chapter tomorrow to. Well just have to see :)
@280
Upon my first reading of Ch4, I also thought that the author of the epigraphs might be Navani. Both for the quote that you give, and for these ones:
“I know that many women who read this will see it only as further proof that I am the godless heretic everyone claims.”
“I’m as religious as the next woman—more than most, actually.”
It seemed like a deliberate juxtaposition to me.
Though I still more than half think it’s Jasnah…
Alisonwonderland@337: Also remember, that Pattern takes 10 seconds to appear to Shallan, even though she thinks to herself that it doesn’t have to be that way for them. So I agree with BrightShadow@338’s theory.
its tuesday!!
Also, I think I would disagree with everyone who thinks that Kaladin’s punch will cause future problems for his family through retribution from Roshone. I think once Roshone finds out that Kaladin is a shardbearer, a Knight Radiant, and a personal guard of Brightlord Dalinar Kholin, he’s going to be scared poopless to even be in the same room with them.
Well TOR? Where is the next part? It’s almost noon in Europe ;)
@344, hush! It’s an hour past noon already, but I’m still at work for four more hours and cannot start reading before my workday finishes. I don’t need any more temptations before that! (after that, bring it on!)
It was noted in the prologue comments by someone in the know that all chapter releases going forward will be done at 9am EDT/EST. One hour to go!
Excruciating wait for the European readers :'(
Well think about the asian readers
I already wanna kill myself
14 minutes to go! I really hope there will be at least one Kaladin chapter! That cliffhanger at the end of chapter 6 is unbearable!
T-minus 10 min
Are 7-9 live yet ? can’t find them
The living shardblades don’t need a delay because the spren are already near their Radiants. Honorblades probably aren’t spren. We don’t know where they come from, but the condensation might be a hint that they materialize from another realm, and that probably takes some time. The spren imitated what the Honorblades did, that might be why there is a similarity between the waiting times for Honorblades and dead spren.
Late to the party, as I was not sure if I wanted to read these before hand… but here I am, if anyone is still reading comments:
1) I wonder if the bowmaster Dalinar added to his elite forces in last week’s flashback was Kadash, who became one of his most trusted fighters, and was obviously present at the event that lead to Shshshsh’s death. And maybe, still holds some level of deep resentment for what Dalinar did do his town / family / brightlord.
2) I also wonder if Lirin and Hesina took Laral in (and why they have no place for Kaladin) – perhaps Laral was pregnant from Roshone’s son and he kicked her out for shaming the family / having a child out of wedlock. It would seem like a Liran /Hesina thing to take her in and also explain why they have more leverage over Roshone. Mara could be her child (and Roshone’s grandchild).
I wish I could have the Old Magic wash away my memories of women I tried to date.
I love how they still use “Stoemfather!” as a curse word.
I can’t wait until Dalinar says it idly as a curse and then The actual Stoemfather is just like “YOU CALLED, SON OF HONOR.”

