A big part of the appeal of the TNG reunion that we have been promised in season three of Picard is answering the question, “What’ve they been doing for the last two decades?” The first two seasons answered that question for the title character, and various episodes of Lower Decks and this show have done likewise for Riker and Troi.
This week, we get answers for both Crusher and Worf, and that, at least, is a mixed bag. It’s the best episode of the season so far, though, because everything is starting to come together in a manner that has some delightful surprises, not just for TNG fans, but fans of DS9 as well…
Let’s start with the more problematic revelation: that Crusher had a kid with Picard and neglected to inform him, instead ghosting him and the rest of the crew and raising the kid on her own.
There’s a lengthy argument in the Titan sickbay between Picard and Crusher on the subject, in which both sides make compelling arguments. Picard is, quite rightly, pissed off that Crusher didn’t even give him a chance to know he had a son. Crusher counters that, shortly after the liaison that led to her pregnancy, Picard was nearly killed on several different occasions back to back in various dealings mostly with Romulans.
(We’ll leave aside the absurdity of there still being accidental pregnancies in the twenty-fourth century given how advanced medicine is in the future. One can come up with justifications for it, but that’s less relevant than the fact that the script, credited to co-executive producer Jane Maggs & producer Cindy Appel, didn’t bother to come up with one, which indicates not giving it any thought or considering it important, which is certainly a choice.)
While Crusher’s argument is not a bad one, it’s not a great one, either, but she has more bullets in that particular gun. One is that Picard was established from jump as not wanting or liking kids. Another is that she has seen her late husband (Jack Crusher, who died on an away mission while serving on the Stargazer under Picard, established in TNG’s “Encounter at Farpoint”), her first son (Wes Crusher, who became a cosmic being in TNG’s “Journey’s End”), and her on-again-off-again lover get lost to the stars, as she put it.
And she also says that, when Jack was of age, she gave him the choice to reach out to his father—thus making it clear that he did know all along, which was not clear from last week’s episode, and adds some serious texture to the conversation the pair of them had in the brig—and he declined the honor.
This whole thing is problematic on several levels. First of all, Crusher’s argument that she took Jack away to keep him safe rings hollow given that Jack has spent his entire adult life building up an impressive rap sheet and performing lots of dangerous acts. Secondly, Picard spent fourteen years sitting on his ass in France growing grapes, starting in 2385, when Jack couldn’t have been more than five years old. (Jack had to have been born after Nemesis, which was in 2379.) Nobody cared enough about him during most of those fourteen years to attack him or for him to be a danger to be around, so Crusher’s protection notion falls on its face there, as well.
Finally, the best they can come up with for Crusher to have spent the last twenty years doing was being a Mama Bear for her and Picard’s kid? Seriously? This is exacerbated by this episode being Marina Sirtis’ first appearance of the season, except it’s in a flashback to shortly after Thaddeus Riker was born, and she only appears for twenty seconds on a viewscreen being an exhausted mother bitching about how Thaddeus has thrown up all over engineering.
One of the complaints about TNG was that the female characters (who stuck around past season one, anyhow) were all in nurturing roles: Crusher (and Pulaski) the doctor, Troi the therapist, Guinan the bartender and dispenser of wisdom. This reductive notion has been carried over to this series, with Crusher and Troi’s only role in these first three episodes being Mother.
Well, okay, Crusher also briefly gets to be a doctor, as she pretty much saves Shaw’s life, and later does the same for Jack. As expected from the end of last week, the Titan spends the episode playing cat-and-mouse with the Shrike, with Titan very much in the role of “mouse.” During one confrontation, Shaw is badly injured, and Crusher is the one who has to save him, as the Titan chief medical officer Dr. Ohk (Tiffany Shepis) can’t figure out what’s wrong with him. This serves as a nice little fuck-you to Ohk, who earlier rejected Crusher’s assistance because it would take her too long to bring her up to speed on the last twenty years of advances in Starfleet equipment. As if Crusher wouldn’t have kept up…
Shaw, by the way, takes several steps toward redemption here. True to character, he turns command functions over to Riker when he’s hurt (since his first officer is still confined to quarters), not out of any sense of duty, but because, as he says, Riker and Picard got them into this mess, they get to get them out of it. Shaw is also the one who asks the important question of how the Shrike keeps finding Titan in the nebula. This leads Jack to thinking and working with Seven to find out if there’s a saboteur on board.
It turns out that there is one, and it’s an ensign whose face moves when Jack punches him. This will be important later…
The Titan portion of the plot gives us a chance to explore the Picard-Riker dynamic, and in particular how it’s changed. We start with the flashback to Picard and Riker drinking a toast to the latter’s kid (complete with Jonathan Frakes’ hair dyed brown—but his beard more salt-and-pepper, a nice touch—and both Frakes and Sir Patrick Stewart digitally de-aged in that manner that makes their eyes look incredibly sunken…). At this point, the new dynamic is still, well, new, plus Riker’s off on his own ship now. But they’re not captain and first officer anymore, and in the present we see that the pair of them aren’t always on the same page.
More to the point, this is the latter-day Picard that we’ve seen on this show for a couple years now whose super-power as he’s gotten older is to royally piss off everyone who’s ever cared about him. And the admiral does a lovely job of doing that, mostly by bullying Riker into fighting the Shrike, even though it’s a fight Riker knows they can’t win. More to the point, they have to protect this crew that they stupidly endangered with their dumbshit off-book mission. And in the end, when the Titan has had the shit kicked out of it thanks to Vadic’s clever use of a portal weapon (like the one that destroyed the Starfleet Recruitment Center), Riker kicks Picard off the bridge.
And yes, Vadic has a portal weapon also. And that’s not the only link between Vadic’s pursuit of the Crushers and the mission Worf sent Musiker on.
First of all, let me just say that I cheered three or four times when Musiker woke up and confronted Worf on La Sirena. His introducing himself was just epic: “I am Worf, son of Mogh, House of Martok, son of Sergey, House of Rozhenko, bane of the Duras family, slayer of Gowron. I have made chamomile tea—do you take sugar?” Bliss…
It’s not entirely clear what Worf has been doing for all of the last twenty years, but he doesn’t appear to be in Starfleet anymore, and he himself describes his work with Starfleet Intelligence as being akin to a sub-contractor. He is also, as he puts it, working on himself, trying to find a better balance in his life. This is much more complex and interesting than what the trailers indicated—that he’s a pacifist now—showing us that Worf is trying to evolve.
What’s especially nifty about Worf’s mission—for which he promotes Musiker from subordinate to partner—is that it ties, not to his days on the Enterprise, but rather his time on Deep Space 9.
One of the complaints I’ve read in some places about this season of Picard so far is complaining that Musiker’s plot seems unconnected to the rest of it. And also that it’s not that interesting, which I can’t agree with at all, as Michelle Hurd is doing superlative work here. Her chemistry with Michael Dorn is exceptional, and watching the pair of them do espionage is an absolute joy. Now I want a Worf and Raffi, Agents of Starfleet series on Paramount+ in 2024. Get on that, Secret Hideout!
Worf knows full well that T’Luco isn’t the real bad guy, but he’s letting that remain the public story while he seeks out the one truly responsible. When Musiker complains that she told him that and he wouldn’t let her go after Sneed, Worf tartly points out that he was concerned that she’d get herself killed, and he was right.
They go after the one who paid Sneed to lie: Titus Rikka, who appears to be human. They interrogate him and Musiker thinks he’s going into withdrawal, but it turns out he’s a changeling who needs to regenerate. Eventually he reverts to liquid form and Worf has to kill him.
But it confirms his own theory, and why he’s been on this mission. He was told by a member of the Great Link that there was a schism among the changelings. Worf’s informant is identified only as a man of honor, but it’s obviously Odo he’s talking about. (And I’m really sad that Rene Auberjonois’ death means we probably won’t get to actually see Odo.) A rogue group of changelings is behind the theft of the items from Daystrom, including the portal weapon used to destroy the recruitment center.
Thing is, the Shrike has a portal weapon as well. They use it to keep Titan inside the nebula, and then, rather devastatingly, use it to turn Titan’s own weaponry on itself. What’s more, there’s a changeling on board Titan. (Played by Chad Lindberg, who will always be Ash on Supernatural to me…)
Buy the Book
Dead Country
The pre-release publicity for who the antagonists for this season of Picard would be included Amanda Plummer’s Vadic, Daniel Davis’ Moriarty (from TNG’s “Elementary, Dear Data” and “Ship in a Bottle”), and Lore (from TNG’s “Datalore,” “Brothers,” and the “Descent” two-parter).
Nothing was mentioned of bringing the Dominion back, and it’s a beautiful and welcome surprise. And it ties our two stories more closely together.
Dorn also plays this older version of Worf beautifully. I’m eager to learn more about what prompted this change, but I also like that he’s become more centered and less aggressive. It suits him.
I want to also give props to two excellent supporting performers. One is Ashlei Sharpe Chestnut’s Sidney La Forge, who visits Seven in her quarters for a heartening pep talk (and calls her “Commander Seven”). The other is Stephanie Czajkowski’s Lieutenant T’Veen, whose portrayal of a Vulcan I’m really digging. (It’s a far cry from Czajkowski’s last role, as the Hammerhead part of Crazy Jane’s multiple personalities on Doom Patrol…)
And hey, Marina Sirtis gets a special guest star credit for twenty seconds on a viewscreen. Again, nice work if you can get it…
The show is spending way too much time channeling Trek movies. In these three episodes alone we’ve had music cues from The Motion Picture, roaming around sleazy locations like in The Search for Spock, having a former pilot’s daughter now flying the ship like in Generations, a ship that looks like Scimitar from Nemesis in the Shrike, and finally, dozens of hits from The Wrath of Khan: chasing through nebulae, more music cues, the main character wearing glasses to remind us he’s old, and a surprise son from the main character’s past whose mother didn’t want the kid raised in Dad’s world. Which is why the DS9 hits were a breath of fresh air. Indeed, between that and Seven’s continued presence, we’re getting tributes to all three twenty-fourth-century shows! I’d rather have more of that than attempting to remind us of movies…
Keith R.A. DeCandido has written several works of Star Trek fiction that heavily featured the character of Worf, including the novels Diplomatic Implausibility, The Brave & the Bold Book 2, The Art of the Impossible, A Good Day to Die, Honor Bound, A Burning House, A Time for War, a Time for Peace, and Q & A; the novella Enterprises of Great Pitch and Moment; the short stories “Revelations” in New Frontier: No Limits and “Family Matters” in Mirror Universe: Shards and Shadows; and the comic book miniseries Perchance to Dream.
Yeah, Terry Matalas had said the legacy of the Dominion War was tied to the final Season’s narrative.
But never in a million years did I actually expect to see Founders (rogue or otherwise) appear on Picard given they’re ultimately DS9’s arch-enemy (and given how little the later TNG films and PIC’s earlier Seasons dealt with DS9 ties and the War).
Although, I keep wondering if there’s a twist and if it’s still misdirection for another threat. We still don’t know how Moriarty and Lore fit into this…
Mr. Magic: I’d missed where Matalas said that, so this was, as I said, a pleasant surprise.
—Keith R.A. DeCandido
I was afraid this was going to be Beverly’s rationale. I was hoping it would sound plausible to me, but, sadly, it’s lame. Okay, I get her being afraid for her baby’s safety. Plus, we know that if she would’ve told Picard about the baby, duty would’ve won out and he would’ve stayed in Starfleet. However, like you said, he retired from Starfleet when Jack was probably five or six. So, she could’ve told him then. She chose not to. My guess is it was the “I’ve waited too long and it would be awkward” rationale. Which I can understand, but It’s still annoying.
I was a little conflicted about Shaw giving command to Riker. He should’ve given it to his first officer, but apparently, she’s still in trouble for insubordination. But he does have a very good point–they are in this whole mess because of Riker so he should clean it up!
Dr. Ohk annoyed me. She should be grateful for Beverly’s help, instead of assuming she doesn’t know what she’s doing because she hasn’t been in Starfleet for twenty years.
I was a little surprised to learn that Worf’s not in Starfleet any more. But it’s good that he’s still working with Starfleet as a subcontractor.
OMG, rogue Changelings!! That’s very intriguing. Due to the Changeling threat, I’m hoping we get a guest appearance by one of the legacy DS9 actors. That’d be awesome.
Can’t wait until next week. (BTW, I’m missing LaForge and Troi. Hopefully, they’ll be coming into the story soon)
I went into the episode worried that Crusher’s character would be derailed, but Gates McFadden is such a good actress that I was completely sold on her motives. I did, however, come out of it worried that Picard and Riker have been derailed: I didn’t buy their conflict in the slightest (the only times that they’ve ever acted even remotely like that were in the alternate timeline in “Yesterday’s Enterprise” and when they were under Sarek’s influence), and that last “You’ve just killed us all!” line makes Riker sound like he’s regressed into a six-year-old.
I also dislike the complete lack of moral weight that the script is given to Worf killing people–especially given that it’s the second episode in a row where he’s gone and killed their only lead in the investigation. In general, I feel like this is being written as an action movie, rather than Star Trek likewise with Jack KO’ing a security guard for no good reason
What I really loved was Sidney La Forge’s conversation with Seven, which was sweet in a way that’s surprising for this season. Even there, though, I was mystified by La Forge’s claim that her dad “doesn’t make friends easily.” What? We’re talking shout Geordi La Forge here? Geordi, “first friend Data had ever had”? Geord, “teaming up with a Romulan to save their lives?” Geordi, “talking a Borg drone out of wanting to assimilate him” La Forge? Okay.
And CHANGELINGS! The idea that the Great Link would splinter makes complete sense to me, given that with Odo’s rejoining them, they would have discovered that the Federation was behind their plague in the first place; hardly a good basis for a new trust of the Solids.
Clearly the strongest episode of Season 3 to date. I find it very refreshing that this season is so well-paced, and clearly not structured as a mystery box, as pacing has been one of the most consistent issues with Picard (and Discovery). Virtually all of the initial questions raised in Episode 1 have been answered by the end of Episode 3. Yes, there are some additional ones now (what was the real thing of value stolen from Daystrom…I’m guessing Lore, and what the hell Jack Crusher’s vision meant) but this is what a well-paced serialized story does, provide some payoff in each installment, but raise new complications, rather than merely stringing us along with no forward development.
I do feel like there’s a real disconnect between the story structure (which is absolutely excellent) and the dialogue though, which is still a bit rough. I mean, expository dialogue (hell, monologue) is pretty foundational to Star Trek, but it’s just a little too awkward for me in spots, bringing me out of the story. LaForge’s dialogue with Seven was a good example – I thought it was a good scene, but it was overwritten (Seven actually remarked about it on camera). The important part of it was the genuineness of the emotion, not that she have some beautiful turn of phrase. There were just a lot of small moments which I felt failed the show not tell across the episode, where just omitting a line or two of dialogue would have made the scenes much stronger.
I’m good with the Changelings being the antagonist, because a motivated antagonist with believable reasons is a better one, and hey, Section 31 did try and genocide them. Certainly better than the whole “return of the Conspiracy parasites” which has been mooted, which would have been awful fanwank. I do have concerns though that this isn’t bound up enough in Picard’s personal mistakes, which is why I would have preferred a Maquis storyline even more than this. I guess we will see where it goes.
An unexpected casting callback: Titus Rikka was played by Thomas Dekker (John Connor in Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles), whose first Trek role was as Picard’s illusory son in the Nexus in Generations, which resonates nicely with the story. (He also did a really impressive job as Lord Burleigh’s son in Janeway’s Gothic holonovel in early Voyager.)
Mixed feelings about this one. There was some really good dramatic writing in Picard and Riker’s flashback talk about becoming a father, and in Picard and Beverly’s confrontation. Worf was pretty cool, and it’s nice to see that the shows have taken him in a similar direction to the now-superseded novel continuity, letting him continue to grow in wisdom and perspective. It was particularly nice to hear Worf give his full name in a way that acknowledged his adoptive family. (I often wondered why he didn’t go by “Worf Rozhenko.” I guess it actually was there, just in the long version.)
But much of this one didn’t really land for me. The Picard-Beverly confrontation wasn’t quite as potent as it could’ve been, because it felt incongruous to retcon in this whole lengthy romance between them that there was no sign of onscreen before. They were together and broke up five times? When? Between movies? Also, Beverly said she didn’t tell Picard about the pregnancy because of a Romulan attack in response to the evacuation effort, which means she didn’t get pregnant until at least 2381, so Jack would have to be no more than 19, which is pushing it. It also contradicts what Picard said about not seeing Beverly in over 20 years. Also, her still being on the Enterprise with Picard during the evacuation would contradict the first PIC novel.
Also, the conflict between Picard and Riker felt forced and artificial, like they were both being written out of character to put them at odds. Since when was Picard the one who advocated fighting over diplomacy? Since when was Riker a timid and indecisive leader? Also, why did Riker make Picard his first officer instead of letting Seven out to take her rightful place?
The Titan crew is also pretty slow on the uptake. We get the return of one of my least favorite Trek tropes, the claim that something has never been encountered by Starfleet before when there’s an obvious resemblance to an earlier episode. A nebula with electrical and biological readings within it? It’s a cloud creature like those seen in TAS and VGR. This sort of thing should be old news to Starfleet by now. (Also hard to believe 25th-century medical scans can’t pick up internal bleeding.)
The return of the Changelings, in the form of a revanchist terrorist faction of the Dominion, is an interesting twist, but it still means this season is all about reviving old continuity threads just as much as last season was. It’s a safe bet that what they stole from Daystrom will turn out to be connected to Lore (?) and Moriarty.
Vadic is still doing nothing for me as a villain. They’re using that cigar as a substitute for actual characterization. And her portable-hole cannon shouldn’t have been as effective as shown. The second time it was fired, why didn’t Titan just swerve away when the portable hole appeared in its path?
I did like Ensign LaForge’s scene. I can see why they cast the actress — she looks like she could be related to LeVar Burton.
And I totally missed that T’Veen was Hammerhead. Now that it’s been pointed out, it’s obvious.
@6 / CLB:
The return of the Changelings, in the form of a revanchist terrorist faction of the Dominion, is an interesting twist, but it still means this season is all about reviving old continuity threads just as much as last season was. It’s a safe bet that what they stole from Daystrom will turn out to be connected to Lore (?) and Moriarty.
Eh, I don’t mind it — and I’m not just saying it as a DS9 guy.
This Season’s a meditation on the 24th Century era, its characters, and its legacy. The Dominion War is a core part of that legacy and not exploring the long-term effects of the conflict on the UFP and its society/culture (as a mirror of the post-9/11 United States 20 years later) has been a missed storytelling opportunity.
(Granted, Chabon stated that was the plan in Season One and a factor in the UFP/SF’s characterization, but the Execs forced them to cut the references — though the subtext is still there if you’re looking for it.)
It’s also a chance to retroactively and canonically fill in that gap in the TNG timeline: The Enterprise-E’s voyages during the War (which on-screen were only really covered during Insurrection).
What do we know is stored at the Daystrom Institute? LWD showed us Agimus, and eventually Peanut Hamper, going into storage there alongside other Killer Robot wannabes. This could very easily explain how both Lore (a Killer Robot if ever there was one) and Moriarty (a Killer Robot if ever there was one) get written into the season… And also opens up opportunities for even more cross-franchise references, since, chronologically speaking, Agimus and Peanut Hamper have been in cold storage for 20 years. I would not object to Jeffrey Combs popping in. (And I’d tolerate Peanut Hamper, even though she would be a massive tonal clash.)
(I also think it would be really funny if Vadic’s / the Changelings’ “bigger weapon” was just, “Let’s just release every Rogue AI Starfleet has ever encountered and let them run interference as a distraction!” That’s more the way LWD would play things, but we have to be honest: as distractions go, it would, in fact, succeed.)
If it is Lore that they took from Daystrom, I do hope that they’re not going to fall into the trap that some of the tie-in media has and make out that Soong-type androids are The most powerful AIs ever conceived!
Despite my knee-jerk dislike for the many elements being reused, I do like that the Changelings are at least a splinter group. That adds some depth to their society, plus doesn’t totally erase the hard fought victory of the Dominion War. I was also struck by how gross the new shapeshifting effects look. Well done, FX folks.
I know Troi’s appearance was like something from a bad sitcom, but I did chuckle at how loud and abrasive she was there. Reminds me of another Troi…
Oh, and welcome back, Michael Dorn. I know he’s been wanting to play Worf again for a long time and he did not disappoint.
@6/Christopher
I missed the part about the relocation, so I assumed Beverly was talking about the power vacuum that opened up right after Nemesis. Which, I think makes more sense.
I for one thought the Riker/Picard conflict was very natural and made perfect sense in context. You can actually see in Riker’s face that he flipped a switch when Shaw leaves him in command. I think the reason for his caution and why he didn’t let Seven back on the bridge is the same reason: he’s only temporarily in command, and immediately undoing one of Shaw’s decisions and completely abandoning his primary mission is not the way to go. Riker’s priority is to keep everybody alive; getting out of the nebula and warping away was the right move. Picard, on the other hand, is thinking only of his son at this point. He wants to attack the Shrike not because it’s tactically sound or likely to succeed, but because he wants to kill that witch who’s trying to take his son from him. Then when Riker rightfully calls him out for it, he projects his own fears onto Riker by accusing him of being scared because of what happened to Thad. I bought it all, and I think once they have a chance to talk it over (after Picard finally takes Riker’s advice and speaks to Jack), they’ll be able to set it aside.
One thing that I enjoyed about this episode is how it addressed a few of the criticisms that many fans have had of the season thus far with simple explanations that make the criticisms seem rather silly in retrospect. “Why does Jack have an accent? They aren’t genetic!” He went to school in London. “Ugh, Beverly said ‘no Starfleet’ and ‘don’t trust anyone.’ I’m so tired of these conspiracy stories that undermine the utopian view of the future.” Oh, turns out there are Changelings involved, so those warnings make perfect sense. “Worf killed the only lead in the investigation!” Turns out he wasn’t a lead at all, he was a dead end because Worf already knew everything he needed to know.
I think the Changelings are only one part of this whole plot (maybe Laas is leading them?). I am quite certain that Vadic is not one because her motives still feel personal to me, and we’ve never seen Picard deal with the Dominion on screen. If I had a guess, I think that they are both part of some kind of “anti-Federation” alliance of enemies that probably also includes some Romulans (like Sela), evil AIs (like Moriarty and maybe Lore), and anybody else that Jean-Luc Picard and the Federation have pissed off. I would love to see Weyoun brought back somehow to act as Odo’s representative of the “good” Changelings that offer some information or assistance. Maybe just say his genome was still stored in the Gamma Quadrant and only Alpha Weyoun was dead forever. The people demand Jeffrey Combs!
Wow, there was a lot going on in this episode. I quite enjoyed it. The new Titan has really grown on me, and I liked it from the start.
It also occurs to me that Doctor Crusher must know more about Vadic than she’s letting on, given her willingness to terminate her mooks with extreme prejudice.
@9 I really don’t think it’s Lore that was stolen, because if he’s been captured by the bad guys or even is the bad guy, then he’s not going to be spending as much time with the rest of the crew. I still feel that Lore’s role in this season is to fill the Data-sized hole in the TNG crew, potentially as a version of Lore with B-4’s brain (and thus Data’s memories) uploaded to his own. That way he’d basically be an a-hole version of Data, which I imagine Spiner would love to play.
@12 / Chase:
Agreed re: Riker. That was my take on it, too.
You could visibly see the guilt on Will’s face when Shaw (rightly) accused him and JLP of getting them into this mess. Every casualty and all damage aboard the ”Titan” were on their heads and Riker knew he had to make it right (whereas JLP was distracted and compromised by the Jack revelation).
@7/Mr. Magic: “This Season’s a meditation on the 24th Century era, its characters, and its legacy. The Dominion War is a core part of that legacy and not exploring the long-term effects of the conflict on the UFP and its society/culture (as a mirror of the post-9/11 United States 20 years later) has been a missed storytelling opportunity.”
That’s a fair point. There is a difference between building organically on the past and just tossing in continuity references out of the fannish impulse to smash all one’s action figures together. Season 2 was one big exercise in the latter, which has made me skeptical of season 3’s use of continuity. But following up on the aftermath of the Dominion War is something that has been overlooked, so you’re right that it’s worth following up on.
But the problem is that it’s being followed up on alongside giving everyone in the TNG cast a swan song, bringing back Lore and Moriarty, and who knows what else (like maybe the Wolf 359 backstory people are speculating about for Shaw). Basing everything in the story on past continuity would still feel like overkill.
Although the one thing that seems like it isn’t referencing the past — the nebula that’s obviously a cosmozoan of some kind — is one thing that should be, because it absolutely is something of a sort Starfleet has encountered before.
@12/Chase: ““Ugh, Beverly said ‘no Starfleet’ and ‘don’t trust anyone.’ I’m so tired of these conspiracy stories that undermine the utopian view of the future.” Oh, turns out there are Changelings involved, so those warnings make perfect sense.”
Granted, on the one hand, Changeling infiltrators do help justify a conspiracy-based story. But on the other hand, I feel that serialized TV as a whole is too dependent on conspiracy plots, which is a fundamental weakness of the format. In a television series, each episode needs to have some twist or surprise or question to be answered; but if every episode is part of a larger story about the same single subject, then that single subject needs to be complex enough to drive one surprise revelation after another, which lends itself to conspiracy-driven plots. It’s an overused approach on the whole, no matter how justifiable it is in any single instance.
@16 I don’t disagree about the overuse of conspiracy plots, but at least this one appears to be an external conspiracy against the Federation instead of an internal one from within. It’s not a bunch of “badmirals” trying to seize power.
I’m particularly okay with using a wide-ranging conspiracy in this season of Picard because I think if you’re going to bring the TNG crew back together after all this time, it had better well be a Federation-threatening event.
You know, if TNG never existed this would be a great episode… if we just started with Picard Season 1. However TNG does exist and that seriously hurts the episode because with the exception of Worf and Troi, no one is acting like they should. We’ve changed everyone’s personalities to fit the scenario.
Lets start with Beverly Crusher. Yes she lost her husband on a Starfleet mission and only THEN did she join up. She put Wesley in harms way from the beginning and then signed on to the flagship of the fleet which you know is going to be in the middle of every weird thing going on in the galaxy- it’s not like she was a doctor at Earth Stardock or orbiting Vulcan, she was on the edge of explored space facing down Romulans, Klingons, Cardassians, Borg and whatever other bad guy of the week we ran into. She even LEFT Wesley on the ship for a year to go to Starfleet Medical (at least in show, behind the scenes stuff is much different) so since when was she an ultra careful momma bear? Certainly not while she was traipsing along the galaxy helping the planets Starfleet forgot.
Then lets work our way up the command to Riker who I was fine with until he took command. And then and only then he starts arguing with his first officer on the bridge in front of the crew? When was he the voice of caution? And then saying in front of the same bridge crew that they’re all dead men walking? He didn’t do that when fighting the Borg in Sector 001, didn’t do that when fighting the Scimitar, didn’t do that in any number of times where the cast was going to die in mere seconds before somehow they escape? He’s the “luck protects fools, children and ships names Enterprise” guy- we’re all doomed simply isn’t in his character.
And then Picard himself? In a flashback to 20 years ago Picard is suddenly all “Fatherhood is wonderful? Best thing in your life?” I can see him happy for his friend but not gushing. Then since when was he the “we have to fight!” guy excluding First Contact? If anything discovering he had a child was going to make him less prone to attacking rather than more. He knows he’s out gunned, he knows he’s been sabotaged, he knows his ship is damaged, why would he be pressing the attack? His character suggests more that he’d try to negotiate rather than practically turning klingon and screaming “Today is a good day to die!”
Also what’s with the bad guys just leaving the hero ship to die? This bothered me way back in Season 3 of TNG when the Borg just leaved the depleted defenseless Enterprise to hang there after the deflector shield weapon does nothing. Now the alpha-predator ship chooses to herd our heroes for some reason and then after crippling them leaves them to just be sucked into a gravity well? Huh?
I wanted to like it- and if it wasn’t for the inconsistency I would. I even appreciate the fact that someone had the foresight to pre-emptively address why Picards son sounds British (I’m guessing that was an on scene conversation involving Frakes as he directed that got written in). However the fact that our beloved crew was acting so UNLIKE themselves makes no sense.and takes away from that.
@17/Chase: “I think if you’re going to bring the TNG crew back together after all this time, it had better well be a Federation-threatening event.”
I think existential threats to Earth or the Federation have been overdone. Trek isn’t just an action series about fighting bad guys, it’s also about adventure and discovery. Or it should be. So far this season is all about fighting enemies, and that’s why it just doesn’t feel like TNG to me. It’s trying too hard to be like the TNG (and TOS) movies, which were much shallower than the series.
@18/MikeKelm: “so since when was she an ultra careful momma bear?”
I think that’s kind of the point — that Beverly saw the consequence of the decisions she made in the past and chose not to repeat them this time. Although Keith is right that it rings false given that we were introduced to Jack as a rogue leading a dangerous life.
“And then and only then he starts arguing with his first officer on the bridge in front of the crew? When was he the voice of caution? And then saying in front of the same bridge crew that they’re all dead men walking?”
You’re right. Any captain should’ve known better than to have that debate on the bridge in front of everyone, or to admit defeat in front of the crew.
“This bothered me way back in Season 3 of TNG when the Borg just leaved the depleted defenseless Enterprise to hang there after the deflector shield weapon does nothing.”
What was wrong with that? Borg don’t care about individual entities, only the collective, their own or anyone else’s (or at least that’s how they were defined at the time). Any individual person or ship that doesn’t serve or obstruct their goals is simply irrelevant, not worth wasting energy on. (Also, that was the start of season 4.)
“Now the alpha-predator ship chooses to herd our heroes for some reason and then after crippling them leaves them to just be sucked into a gravity well? Huh?”
Makes sense to me. The gravity well would be equally dangerous to both ships. If the bad guy sees the good guy falling off a cliff, the bad guy doesn’t jump after them to make sure they hit the bottom.
“I even appreciate the fact that someone had the foresight to pre-emptively address why Picards son sounds British”
Yet without addressing why Picard sounds British. They could’ve answered decades’ worth of questions with a slight tweak to that line — “Jack was schooled in London, like you were.”
@13 – It does explain why the various attackers have been different races. They’re really not, they were all changelings. It still doesn’t explain why she decided to execute them though.
I’m assuming that the Crushers were tracked the same way that the Titan was. If so, it raises the question of who sabotaged their engines. Perhaps if her crew had included an engineer, it could have been located and fixed. Did they have other crew that have all been killed in the prior attacks with Crusher making sure she and Jack survived? If so, that’s pretty cold blooded.
Interesting comment from Crusher about the planets that Starfleet has forgotten about. We’ve seen this brought up before including on Lower Decks. It’s a thing. Show up, mess with your society. Bugger off.
In regards to the “Don’t trust anyone”, remember that they were onto Picard as soon as he met with Riker. Remember the guy in the bar with the little Enterprise he dropped in his drink as they left? Perhaps if Picard trusted Crusher more, a lot of this could have been avoided.
OH look, we get a cameo from Troi and she’s got her hands full of a baby who’s making messes everywhere. Isn’t that funny? Also, Riker didn’t take the whiskey as she asked.
Riker was right to call out Picard. How many on the Titan have died thus far? The mission was to rescue the Crushers. That’s been done. Now, get the hell away and call for help. And Will, it wasn’t Picard that “Got us all killed”. he came up with the idea but you’re the one that gave the orders. You’re the captain. The ship and crew are your responsibility, not your retired friend and mentor.
That’s the second time Jack has taken out a supposedly trained Starfleet security guard. Makes you wonder why they just left him lying the the corridor though.
“Beheadings are on Wednesday” <Snarf>
Nobody has been thinking about how the Shrike is tracking them? Let’s get the young medical guy to figure it out. Same with the nebula having a biological component. I was wondering why they didn’t investigate that further when it was first mentioned. Sure, they had other things to do but a few sensor sweeps could have been made. Maybe it’ll be important later on? But sure, let’s wait for a later episode when it becomes obvious (I’ll bet).
@19 They explained why Picard is the most British Frenchman in the galaxy last season, when they told us how the Picard family fled France for England during WWII; Maurice and family were the first to return.
Btw, can I just say here that I appreciate this little community we have commenting on these reviews? I spend too much of my time on Thursdays reading lots of reviews and comments on the latest episodes, and there are a lot of negative and angry fans out there who really try to ruin the whole experience. Major thanks to KRAD for cultivating a good atmosphere for discussion.
A couple of thoughts:
I’ve lost track of whether this story agrees with “All Good Things” or contradicts it. Future Picard in that story managed to annoy most of the characters during the action that he hadn’t already quarrelled with before then. Isn’t Worf the Emperor of the Klingons in that one?
It’s rarely used in Star Trek, but this is science fiction where time can be extremely relative. This is why there are “star dates” instead of a sensible calendar, and why they are basically random numbers. Beverly may have spent a long holiday in the past on planet Sarpeidon, the one where everyone escapes the supernova by doing that. Maybe Borg ate her contraceptive implant and she was somewhere you can’t get another. Troi has an unplanned alien pregnancy in “The Child”: space is full of things like that.
More often used is that 23rd and especially 24th century culture even of Humans can be quite different to the 20th, even though stories really are in dialogue with the time when they’re written. In future time, it may be absolutely normal to treat pregnancy and child raising as something that is only the responsibility of the person who is pregnant. It’s not like you need a court order for child support if you can replicate all your material needs. And it’s not like a woman as parent is insufficient. Data is a deliberate follower of convention, he aspires to be ordinary and Human – and he finds it absolutely ordinary to have a child on his own, too. But in the twentieth century it’s irresponsible.
Can we date the “main cast character’s illegitimate child turns up” story to the American experience of the Second World War? And Vietnam. And Korea. Well, it does also appear in “Silas Marner” (1861) – now, what was happening in America around then…
@2 / KRAD:
Based on TM’s comments, it sounded to me like the catalyst for Vadic’s campaign was something that had happened during the War — and something involving the 1701-E and Picard by extension.
Actually bringing the Dominion back in (the form of the Changelings)? I was just as surprised as you for the reasons I outlined earlier.
@@@@@ CLB….
Except Beverly didn’t see the consequences of the decisions she had made or else she and her son wouldn’t be gallavanting into warzones by themselves. They’ve been out there for at least 10 years and while it’s not entirely clear how old Jack is it means at most he was in his early teens when she went back out into “the stars” that apparently took everyone from her.. Unless her lesson was to stay the hell away from Picard as if that itself would alleviate the danger.
As far as the Borg go yes it was season 4 at that point, but they would think more long term than that. Yes Enterprise wasn’t actively hostile to them, but it had recenly been hostile and leaving them again to fight again seems like a loose thread that doesn’t meet with their methodical nature. The Enterprise wasn’t a threat to them once they went into the nebula yet they still chased after them. It’s not as if the Borg were on a specific timeline- they could afford the couple of hours it would’ve taken to board and assimilate the crew and their collected knowledge. And as far as the Shrike goes, with a portal device that allows them to jump around and enough torpedoes to flatten a planet they don’t have the same risk as Titan about getting closer to the gravity well- they can either just portal Titan all the way to the gravity well or shoot about 80 torpedoes at them and blow them up. Instead they just ignore them and assume they die? They’re acting like Bond villains somehow assuming that 007 couldn’t possibly escape their death trap so they leave them alone to die. If you’re going to do that at least do a 10 second scene where Vadic order a pursuit, one of her crew tell her they have to break off because the hoosie-whatsis converter is running in the red and Vadic saying “Oh well they’ll die anyways.”
And as Chase said the Picard family had until very recently been in England for centuries. Picard’s father Gaius Baltar, I mean Maurice was the first generation back and spoke with a British accent so it’s natural that Jean-Luc would as well.
@22 Robert Carnegie… illegitimate children go back way way earlier. Arthurian legend has just about everyone being a bastard (Arthur, Mordred, Merlin in some versions). Literally half of Dickens has illegitimacy involved (7 of 14 novels). Shakespeare of course had plenty. There were plenty of demi-gods and other children of Greek gods such as Heracles (aka Hercules) who was the son of Zeus and a mortal woman.
Unexpected children are a great way to blow up a characters perfectly fine life or illustrate a character flaw in an antagonist. It’s just about the oldest literary trick there is.
Quoth Chase: “Major thanks to KRAD for cultivating a good atmosphere for discussion.”
You’re welcome, though the good people at Tor.com deserve more credit. And in general, in online spaces I’ve been involved with and/or responsible for, from GEnie to SFF.net to LiveJournal to WordPress to Facebook, I have always endeavored to cultivate a polite, friendly, non-nasty atmosphere. It makes for better, more productive conversations.
—Keith R.A. DeCandido
@22/Robert Carnegie: “I’ve lost track of whether this story agrees with “All Good Things” or contradicts it.”
AGT was contradicted as soon as the Enterprise-D was destroyed in Generations, and then when Data died (and Troi didn’t). They said at the end of AGT itself that Picard telling people about the future he saw might change it, and of course the franchise has made no effort to stay consistent with it, since that would hamper their storytelling.
@24/MikeKelm: “Except Beverly didn’t see the consequences of the decisions she had made or else she and her son wouldn’t be gallavanting into warzones by themselves.”
Yes, Keith and I both already acknowledged that Jack’s situation contradicts Beverly’s explanation. All I’m saying is that the writers’ intention behind Beverly’s explanation was that her previous losses led her to change her behavior. That was clear enough from her dialogue. So her choice didn’t contradict her TNG characterization, since the change was explained. It just contradicts PIC itself.
“As far as the Borg go yes it was season 4 at that point, but they would think more long term than that. Yes Enterprise wasn’t actively hostile to them, but it had recenly been hostile and leaving them again to fight again seems like a loose thread that doesn’t meet with their methodical nature.”
On the contrary — the nature of the Borg, at least as defined in TNG, is that they don’t anticipate threats, only react to them after the fact. An away team on a cube gets ignored unless it starts shooting drones. The first few drones that get shot are always defenseless, until others adapt. TNG-era Borg don’t think strategically — they think statistically. Their tactic is to go ahead and try something, see if it works or not, then adapt if it doesn’t.
In any case, the Enterprise had proven no threat to them, and they later demolished a fleet of 40 ships at Wolf 359 without breaking a sweat. So why would they have cared if the E-D had another go? The Borg don’t think in terms of individual ships or people anyway, just the collective threat level of the civilization. If you swat away a wasp in the woods, you don’t worry about whether that specific wasp will come after you again, just whether it’s a sign that you’ll face more wasps up ahead. You perceive the aggregate, not its individual components. Borg think statistically. Or at least they did in TNG, before FC and VGR retconned them into space zombies targeting individuals.
“And as far as the Shrike goes, with a portal device that allows them to jump around”
Do we know that? We didn’t see the Shrike itself go through the portal. It’s plausible that it could, but it’s an assumption beyond the data until we actually see it. I couldn’t tell whether the aperture was wide enough for the ship to fit through, and there might be some reason why the portable-hole cannon can’t pass through the portable holes it creates without collapsing them or shorting out or something.
Also, the portable holes don’t seem to have much range at all, though the dialogue and visuals seemed to contradict each other on how deep into the nebula the holes were sending them.
I liked the flashback scene, and the scene between LaForge and Seven. I didn’t entirely buy Crusher’s excuses for cutting Picard out of his son’s life, but Gates McFadden does a pretty good job of delivering them. However, after that, when Picard refuses to speak to Jack and says he owes Shaw an apology for diverting the Titan to rescue Jack and Beverly, that just felt out of character.
I enjoyed the scenes with Worf and Raffi. Michael Dorn campaigned for Worf to return in his own series, and his performance here makes a good case for why that would have been a great idea. I suppose it’s not too late. Michelle Hurd is very good as usual, and the two actors play well off of one another.
I’m a bit confused as to why Jack went to Seven to get help finding the mole. I guess because she’s in the credits. When it looked like he might die in sickbay, I kind of hoped he would, because the character still does nothing for me.
I agree with those who say the drama between Picard and Riker felt forced. If anything, since Picard was regretting getting the ship into this mess, it should have been him arguing to keep it out of danger. At any rate, I have a hard time buying that Riker would ever deliver that “You’ve just killed us all” line. At the end of the day, he’s the one who gave the order to fire, and he wouldn’t be so petulant as to blame Picard for giving what turned out to be bad advice.
So for me the episode was decent enough, but it ended on a sour note. Hopefully things will pick up again next time. At the very least, we’ll probably get more Worf and Raffi, which is a good thing.
The quarrelling on the bridge also felt very out-of-character to me. Certainly in TNG Picard and Riker got the Enterprise-D out of much more dire situations many times without losing their cool. Maybe the reason that nobody acts in a calm, cool, professional manner in this post-Dominion War era of nuTrek is that they’re all consciously or subconsciously stressed out and irritated all the time by the lack of lighting and carpeting on the new ships. Nobody can think straight in a crisis because they can’t see a damn thing because the lights are off all the time, and they can’t ever truly relax and take a load off because there’s nowhere on the ship that has a decent piece of carpet or a decent chair. All the older generation on this show must really, really miss the creature comforts of the D and the other ships from the good old days, before everything went to hell, and what didn’t go to hell went to war, which is the same thing.
You know, now that I think about it, it seems like a real missed opportunity naming the villain Vadic and not…
Glados.
These characters are 20 years older. Of course they won’t be exactly the same. One thing I haven’t seen anyone bring up when discussing Riker and Picard. Riker is no longer Picard’s subordinate- he’s been a successful captain for many years. He’s going to have an ego as a captain. Picard forgets this when he questions Riker on the bridge- Picard isn’t used to this dynamic.
1. I demand Star Trek Worf.
2. A theory. Assuming the climax is at Frontier Day. What ships do we know are in the museum? The A. The Excelsior. Etc. This show’s loving nostalgia, and such days have parades. What if those old ships are going to be in it? A climax and a love letter to all that’s come before.
While I thought Gates McFadden did a fine job in this episode, I’m not sure I buy the reason Crusher gave for keeping Jack a secret. Some decent dancing, doctor, but it seems a little wobbly to me.
I mean, they must have security for high-profile people in the future, yes? And if the situation was that dire, does Starfleet and the Federation not have some version of witness protection? Living under assumed names? Undisclosed locations, you know? Okay, you might ask for spaghetti with marinara sauce and get egg noodles and ketchup, but sacrifices must be made.
Anyhow, they still could’ve been in Picard’s life without accompanying him on missions and being right in the middle of it. People in government and the military do this all the time.
@32 – Don’t count on it. P+ is hemorrhaging money and have just announced that Discovery will be delayed until 2024 and that it will be its its Picard ending after this seasonlast season.
Wit Picard ending after this season, it wouldn’t surprise me to see them run with just three shows (SNW, PRO & LD) for a year or two and then swap in a new series when they cancel one of them. I know they had the plan to have multiple series running in sequence but it just doesn’t seem to be financially possible.
‘Star Trek: Discovery’ to End After Season 5
This new season is so good. I love the pacing, the visual effects. I love the look of the so comfortingly familiar lines of Titan. I keep wondering where all of this is leading. If this is going to tie together different series, if these elements of the conspiracy are more than what they seem, if we have heard of or seen them before. The projectile portal reminds me of the Iconian Gateways, the Ansata Seperatists Inverter, Borg transwarp hubs, and it keeps going. I think there is more to all of this than something that we have either never seen before, or is totally familiar. I keep thinking of why Vadic wants Jack Crusher. It has to be more than because he screwed her on a deal. I keep noticing elements of foreshadowing. There was a close-up on the Bajoran tablet, shattered. There’s the award on Picard’s desk that has the emblem of the Bajoran Republic prominently displayed. I’m really curious about this portal technology. It does;t seem very long range, but given how large nebulae are, there’s just no telling. There’s the crew of Shrike, and their language is also familiar; it sounds like Xindi. Shrike’s silhouette is somewhat familiar, as is the iconography on her control panels. The symbols look like a Son’a design, which might make sense, if Vadic is in league with the Dominion terrorists. There are the lesions on her face, which look like the Teplan plague from DS9’s, the quickening. When Jack is lying on the deck, he seems to see Seven growing something like a network of vines or vasculature, and she says, “see the branching.” I wonder what else she said, it seemed we were meant to miss it.
Hell, what if they are after Jack and Beverly to get Wesley? I’m really curious to see how all of this ties in with the 250 year anniversary of Frontier day. And I am riveted. It’s so well done. I love the scene between JLP and Beverly. I love the inside-outed-ness of Riker taking command, and Picard sitting in as second. What motivates him to push so hard for an attack? It doesn’t like he’s doing it strictly because they are after his son, but after his losses, I suppose it’s possible.
Beverly’s sickbay scenes are great. It’s wonderful to see her finally getting to show off the character’s full range of polymath like abilities.
I can’t wait for next week. I’m really curious about what’s going to happen.
Quoth kkozoriz: “P+ is hemorrhaging money”
Source? All the linked article said is that season 5 is Discovery’s last, which honestly isn’t a surprise. There’s nothing there about the streaming service’s financial status. And after 5 years of jackasses on YouTube talking about how Alex Kurtzman’s job is in danger and Discovery will be canceled, I just assume that every unattributed claim that Trek and/or P+ is in trouble to be bullshit.
—Keith R.A. DeCandido
@32 I don’t know if Frontier Day is *the* climax, but it wouldn’t surprise me. The ships in museum in the credits are Voyager, the Enterprise-A, Pioneer, Excelsior, and what I believe to be the saucer section of the *Enterprise*-D. Given this lineup, I would also bet money on the *Defiant*-A (the former *Saõ Paulo* and the NX-01 being in the museum. For Easter egg purposes, I bet we’ll see other familiar ship designs at least in there. Maybe the *HMS Bounty* was recovered from San Francisco Bay and put in the museum.
@36 TrekMovie published an article the other day about Paramount+ cutting a lot of costs, like most streaming services are doing these days. The days of just throwing money at content appear to be over.
From what I’ve read paramount plus is doing alright financially. It’s not making money at the moment because it’s spending so much on growing its content, what it calls “peak investment,” but that’s no different than a lot of streamers. It is merging its service with Showtime soon, which should boost its portfolio. At any rate, I don’t see it dialing back on what is one of its most high profile franchises.
“Worf and Raffi, Agents of Starfleet series on Paramount+ in 2024.” seconded
@36 – Most, if not all streaming services are losing money. P+ & Warner/Discovery doing the worst. Even Disney has announced cuts in new programming
Paramount+ to raise subscription prices as it merges with Showtime
Paramount’s Streaming Losses Widen to $575M Even As It Tops 77M Subscribers
“Paramount Global reached more than 77 million streaming subscribers worldwide as of the end of 2022, up from 67 million as of the end of September, as Paramount+ posted a record quarterly user gain, the Hollywood giant said Thursday. However, higher streaming investments were a drag on the entertainment company’s bottom line, and TV unit advertising sales dropped.
Uhm… Exclusive: Worf And Raffi Star Trek Spinoff In The Works
For what it’s worth…
It’s a shame about Discovery being cancelled; love it or hate it, it’s alone amongst the current crop of Trek series in trying to be completely it’s own thing. Picard was initially trying, but gave up and just embraced being a TNG reunion; LWD is consciously trying to be like TNG, just as PRO is trying to be like Voyager and SNW is trying to be like TOS.
I hope that the delay in it’s release means that they’regoing to give it a proper ending.
@30/Ryan: “You know, now that I think about it, it seems like a real missed opportunity naming the villain Vadic and not…
Glados.”
I was thinking that instead of the Shrike, her ship should be called the Spot.
Or the Nowhere Man. “I’ve got a hole in me pocket.”
@35/Unicorn Sushi: “The projectile portal reminds me of the Iconian Gateways, the Ansata Seperatists Inverter, Borg transwarp hubs, and it keeps going.”
Except Gateways and transwarp have immense range, and the inverter has comparable range to a normal transporter, thousands of kilometers. The portable hole cannon is strictly local, with seemingly no more than a kilometer or two between entry and exit. It looks kinda cool, but it’s really not that impressive a technology.
@43/jaimebabb: I don’t think I’d say DSC has been cancelled, just had an end date set. Cancellation means that there were plans for more that got scuttled. Here, they’re following through with the plan for one more season, but they know in advance that it will be the last one.
Sorry, I don’t buy Beverly’s reasons, It’s just a move of an asshole, particularly since she herself chose a life of danger and almost near criminality as pretty much a solo act. I don’t for a minute buy that. A former Starfleet officer going low level rogue? Wasting her command and people skills. No. Not at all.
On the other hand, Worf surprises me quite pleasantly. And the type of razor sharp, dry humorous dialogue that punches all my buttons. And I buy HIM working the gray borderlands, pulling the solo act.
In thinking about these contrived conflicts between Picard & Beverly and Picard & Riker, I’m thinking about the storytelling ethos of TNG. People often criticize it for having “no conflict,” but my understanding is that what Roddenberry wanted was no petty conflict, no conflict that arose from the characters being unkind or dysfunctional or having foolish misunderstandings, the usual cheats and shortcuts that writers use to manufacture artificial conflicts that could be easily avoided. Some writers said that rule could actually benefit their work because it challenged them to avoid the usual lazy writing tricks and work harder to come up with meaningful reasons that well-adjusted people who liked and trusted each other would come into conflict over sincere differences in their goals or priorities, or different takes on a complicated dilemma that had no easy answer.
What I see here is the kind of exaggerated, manufactured conflict that TNG tried to avoid, conflict that comes from the characters being too emotional and hardline, overreacting and making poor choices, failing to listen to each other or trust each other. It’s just falling back on the usual tricks.
So far, the one TNG character who feels truest to the spirit of TNG is Worf, who’s cool-headed and disciplined and supportive and who nicely short-circuits Raffi’s hostility by meeting her with calm and reason and cooperation. It’s quite an ironic contrast with his characterization in TNG. I’d also say Sidney La Forge comes off pretty well, but she’s not a returning character.
@44 – This sounds like season 5 was pretty much done but is now having the ending rewritten to provide closure. That’s why it’s been pushed back to 2024. Sounds like cancellation to me.
”The outlet’s sources explain that principal photography on Season 5 is mostly complete. However, now that the decision has been made to end the show, there will be additional photography to make sure Discovery has a proper ending. As such, the premiere of the show’s fifth season has been pushed back to early 2024.”
Star Trek: Discovery Is Coming to an End
wlewisiii: The source is Giant Freakin Robot, which is one of the least reliable sources on the Internet, so I take that story (reluctantly) with a grain of salt.
—Keith R.A. DeCandido
In any case, I think that a Seven of Nine series still seems likely, because if Paramount+ is strapped for cash, betting on a series for which there is significant fan interest, about an already very popular and well-known character, using a bunch of sets that they already have standing, seems like a fairly safe bet, all things considered.
So, wow. This is easily the best hour of Star Trek, or really any show, I’ve seen in quite a long time. It was tense, emotional, and quite powerful. I do agree there were a few moments when the dialogue got a little stilted, usually at the start of conversations, but otherwise I was transfixed.
For me the Picard/Beverly conversation was emotionally spot on, even if the motivation on her side was a bit off. The long awkward silence at the start was tense and real. Like, what do you say? But the thing that got me was Jack’s near death and the turbolift ride. Oh man I nearly to tears, wow.
Also, I’m a DS9 fan, so the changeling reveal was awesome, catching me off guard.
As for Riker shifting so massively near the end I felt like it was sneaky good. Thing is, he and Picard are retired/semi-retired heroes, not captains anymore. How often in Star Trek has the heavy weight of command been stressed by every captain to have graced the screen. At the start, the Titan was just a ship that they needed. One Riker is placed in command of felt like he snapped right back, feeling the weight of responsibility for the crew that he didn’t when they were just trying to convince Shaw to do stuff.
And on Shaw, maybe this was just my own biases, but at first he almost read as maybe on the autism spectrum. I don’t think they wrote the character that way, as there seems to be some tragic back story that’s going to explain why he is the way he is, but it’s an interesting thought. I also wondered if maybe the traffic thing happened when he was a really low level officer on the Enterprise, which would explain his initial attitude towards Picard and Riker, particularly regarding their wild past adventures. I mean, what are the odds they would remember every low level officer that came through in their time there.
krad: Ah, I don’t know them at all so that’s why I did add the “for what it’s worth” line. Good to know that they are that unreliable going forward though.
Picard and Riker’s conflict feels like exactly the sort of thing the Changelings do – sow discord. Why is Picard such an uncharacteristic warmonger on the bridge? Why is Picard so frustrated that Riker is not immediately embracing the violent solution that they expect of solids? Just how many changelings are on the Titan?
In the Star Trek universe, people do not smoke. There have been several instances of people smoking in these episodes. This is a travesty and should not be tolerated by Star Trek fans. Don’t the people who are in charge at Paramount have enough money to just say no against cigarette companies who are trying to get people to smoke?
@53 I will have to respectfully disagree with that assessment. There has been a lot of smoking in Star Trek over the decades. There are “No Smoking” signs in the Enterprise transporter room in Wrath of Khan because Nicholas Meyer figured that humans had been smoking for millennia and there’s no particular reason to think we’ll have stopped by the 23rd century. I’m sure that if you checked on Memory Alpha, they’ve probably catalogued every single instance of smoking to ever occur in the franchise.
A very satisfying episode overall. Beverly’s decision can be nitpicked over ad nauseam, and Picard certainly has the right to, but I don’t think that any part of it was a rational decision. She was scared. I don’t think she was actually scared of just losing Jack either. I think that she didn’t want to be near Picard because she was afraid he was gonna get himself killed, and then she was going to have lose him too. Nice that they added the bit of backstory where she also lost her parents out in the stars. Conversely, she’s still working out in the stars. I don’t know if that adds nuance to her character or not. Beverly fears adventures in space taking away the people she loves, but she is a doctor and an altruist in an interstellar society, and believes in bringing her skills to people who need them. So she herself is inclined to find herself in adventures. But this particular crisis seems well outside of her normal life for the last twenty years. I guess in the end, Destiny still Arrives.
I did find Picard and Riker swapping tactical ideologies a bit interesting, but I don’t think it’s out of character for Picard. In Nemesis he taunted Shinzon by saying his Academy evaluation found him to be, “Overconfident”. Picard is indeed a peacemaker and a diplomat, but in battle he’s historically rather aggressive. And I don’t just mean ramming the Scimitar or refusing to stop fighting the Borg and abandon ship. The Picard Maneuver is a warp speed jump to point blank range against a tactically superior unknown enemy ship to fire everything he had into said enemy’s face. If you’re looking for a cut and run Captain, Picard ain’t it.
The thing is, neither is Riker. Who is legendary as a nebula fighter after the Battle of the Briar Patch. Riker is not known for being cautious in a crisis situation. He’s just cautious at accepting promotions.
I can understand Will just wanting to get everyone home safe though.
On that note, Jack is showing that he has a LOT of Jean Luc in him. Seriously. Jack is the Jean Luc who picked a fight with a Nausicaan and his friends at Starbase Earheart. Jack is I quote Jean Luc talking about himself, “A Damn fool.” If you remove 40 years of experience and training, in formal diplomacy, but still give him an amped charisma score, ego, and a quick wit, what Jean Luc do you have? A silver tongued jerk who can talk himself into trouble as much as talk himself out of it.
Raffi and Worf though. There’s money there. I hear profit in the wind. Worf’s introduction…that’s how you introduce yourself. I’m glad that he took Ezri’s advice to heart and has been looking to evolve. And I don’t know what Dorn was smoking, White Haired Old Master Worf is HOT FIRE. Makes you want to sit under the learning tree and absorb his wisdom. It’s an interesting continuation of tropes, as the Klingons original appearance was that of green men with Fu Manchu beards, logically if you continue that to the point that they become good guys and old and noble warriors, you end up with a character that looks sagacious like the head of a temple of warrior monks. And I love it. Worf Laozi.
And it doesn’t seem planned, but Raffi and Worf totally went good cop bad cop on that Changeling. On the subject of the Changeling…not a fan of the new morphing effect. If he would’ve at least reverted to a uniform color instead of looking like melted organs. But a Changeling splinter faction makes perfect sense. I also get why Worf wouldn’t want to make it public himself. He lived through Admiral Leyton’s coup attempt and understands the damage word of rogue Changelings infiltrating the Alpha Quadrant could cause.
I didn’t like Jack not calling for help, I thought he and Seven had an open comms link. Though I guess he was inhaling Verterium, but Seven should’ve also realized him not responding was a problem.
Shaw. Shaw is still a jerk. But he’s a good captain. Even on his death bed he was still thinking about problems and solutions. Which shows he’s also a good Starfleet officer.
So Worf isn’t working for Starfleet Intelligence, per se. Well, my bet is that he’s…Section 31. I’m shocked that no one has guess that by now.
From Crusher’s description, Picard seems to be in much more danger once he stops being a starship captain. One life-threatening situation after another, which really didn’t happen that often on the show itself.
One detail that bugs me is Seven saying that verterium only insulates the warp coils. It was established in Voyager: “Investigations,” canonizing material from the TNG Technical Manual, that the warp coils themselves are made of a verterium cortenide composite. Verterium is an integral part of the coils, not just outer insulation.
@56/DG: “Well, my bet is that he’s…Section 31.”
No way. Section 31 is a bunch of liars and criminals. Remember, they infected Odo with a virus that would kill him and the entire Changeling species. Not only is that a cowardly and dishonorable way to strike at an enemy, but it was a direct attack on a man that Worf praised here as a friend and a man of honor. There’s no way Worf would see them as anything but an enemy. I sincerely hope the writers here haven’t forgotten that.
@57- It makes a certain amount of sense- as Captain of the Enterprise, Picard would occasionally run into someone with a personal grudge, but during the Romulan evacuation he was apparently head and public face of a massive and inevitably massively controversial undertaking that involved the complete remaking of, presumably, billions of people’s ways of life. Add in a noted cultural tendency towards plotting amongst Romulans and you have a recipe for any number of assassination attempts.
I wonder what happened with the Remans.
Ensign LaForge’s personal story to Seven doesn’t make a ton of sense. Yes, her father was a great engineer, but before that he was also a pretty good pilot.
Maybe she made up the story to make Seven feel better.
@60/Devin Clancy: “Ensign LaForge’s personal story to Seven doesn’t make a ton of sense. Yes, her father was a great engineer, but before that he was also a pretty good pilot.”
Sidney was talking about other people’s expectations for her based on her father’s career. Yes, Geordi did a one-year stint as the E-D’s conn officer, and was a shuttle pilot at least once before then (per “The Next Phase”), but he made his reputation as a great engineer, so that’s what people expected Sidney to do. Most of them probably didn’t remember his early posting at conn. Heck, even in season 1, the intent was that Geordi was on the command track and the conn was just a step along the way.
Devin Clancy: I’m with Christopher on this. Riker was a conn officer when he was a junior officer, too (per “Chain of Command Part II” and “The Pegasus“), but that’s not what people think of him as. And La Forge was chief engineer of a ship called Enterprise for more than 15 years.
—Keith R.A. DeCandido
Honestly, if not for the blood and suffering, I might find Shaw’s plight funny. He’s getting awfully close to being the gruff police chief in an Inspector Clouseau movie who wants these guys off the case but can’t get rid of them, and ends up with soot on his face for his predicament.
I too thought his comment about “weird shit” was weird in itself. How long has he been in Starfleet? This shouldn’t be that weird to him.
I’m relieved to read the posts from this week’s episode because I was half worried I was suffering from Stockholm syndrome. I liked this episode as much as any in Picard. It was “pretty good” overall but shows have a sliding scale of excellence.
But the Picard/Crusher scene was dynamite. It did well something that Picard struggles with: present a situation where characters are imperfect, rational, and consistent with their established characters. We usually get to pick one of the three. I have some nitpicks on the points they present. But accepting this as a conversation between regular people and not idealized people it really works.
Something I really like about the Titan is the scaling on the ship isn’t absurd. Based on window size it looks about on par with the refit Enterprise.
On the topic of windows: “Space is big. You just won’t believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is.” Assigning crew to look out the windows to spot the Shrike was so absurd it actually got a laugh. Yes, Trek always puts ships nose to nose to fit both in frame during a faceoff, but that’s a cheat for TV viewers.
Putting Riker in command was surprisingly rational in the context of how the show treats the conventions of a pseudo-military organization like Starfleet. The first officer is relieved of duty and Riker is the highest ranking active duty officer available. Certainly there is a ship’s officer a tier down from Seven but granting Riker command would not get the captain court-martialed.
It’s been brought up several times in the context of recent Trek that the characters don’t act in a manner acceptable to military officers. It’s a complaint I agree with (with the caveat that Starfleet is looser than a truly regimented military organization would be, and that’s consistent with the setting. I’m fine with some artistic license here). I wonder if a big part of this is if none of the show runners come from that background. Rodenberry I know particularly served in WW2 and I suspect a lot of his peers did as well. TOS was informed by that experience, not in a pro-militarism way, but is bringing a bit of verisimilitude to it. I have no idea what the personal histories of the current writers/showrunners are or even my idea has merit. But it’s a consistently jarring aspect of the more recent shows for me personally.
The script did Dr. Ohk no favors. If an accident victim showed up at a modern hospital with Shaw’s injuries I think they’d be able to diagnose him just fine. I watched VOY’s “Shattered” recently and the EMH was able to cure Chakotay of freakin’ time travel! Minor nitpick, though.
@@.-@ You’re action movie comment clicked for me. The tone, dialogue, stakes, etc. seem far more like TNG movies than TNG itself.
@21 You raise a fair point and I have to check some of my complaints about Jack’s accent. It’s still an eye-roller but it’s a 100% fair that Star Trek has well established rules on how accents work.
@64/kurtzwald: “On the topic of windows: “Space is big. You just won’t believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is.” Assigning crew to look out the windows to spot the Shrike was so absurd it actually got a laugh. Yes, Trek always puts ships nose to nose to fit both in frame during a faceoff, but that’s a cheat for TV viewers.”
On the other hand, space is dark and ships have lights. Naked-eye observers can see satellites or the ISS passing overhead hundreds of kilometers away. So it’s not entirely implausible, though it would’ve made more sense if they’d been looking through some kind of space-agey binoculars.
Or they could’ve launched a shuttle and had it relay its sensor readings to the bridge. I’m often annoyed that when the main ship’s systems break down in Trek, it doesn’t occur to them to fall back on a shuttle’s systems.
Worf? Great. The other stuff, I have some notes — mostly apart from what’s already been discussed.
I’m not cool with the main credits running at the end. On a feature film this makes sense; not so much for episodic television, especially when serialized.
“You’ve just killed us all” is weird. I don’t buy the schism or Riker blaming Picard — for making a suggestion that he chose to realize, no matter how insistent (as commenters before me have pointed out). The only way it sounds right is if it’s a kind of ruse they’re putting on. Not that Will’s never pivoted on a dime to being a total schmuck, e.g. calling out his supposed imzadi for having always come off “a little too aristocratic” to him after she’s literally had one of her senses torn away from her.
I counted roughly 17 seconds from when Picard entered the turbolift to his arrival in sickbay, mirroring Riker’s story and of course reinforcing the episode’s title.
Late in Picard and Crusher’s talk there was a power surge and sickbay was accidentally properly lit for a moment!
Riker’s slick mop of jet-black hair in the flashback looked ridiculous.
Also ridiculous: Vadic dragging on those cigarillos. Of course there will still be people with disgusting, self-destructive habits in the 25th century, but the whole schtick comes off as way too poseur (or poseuse) to my eyes.
I agree that Troi’s only appearance so far being in that video call in the flashback stuck at home with the baby is not great, although in context it’s not exactly reinforcing that a woman’s place is rightly at home while her man’s out drinking so much as being an example of how for centuries now it unfairly often ends up that way.
Last episode Picard observed that Vadic was trying to incapacitate the Titan but not destroy it. Here the Shrike prevents them from leaving the nebula, to be sure, yet using the portal weapon to direct its full barrage right back at itself doesn’t scream restraint. Jack or Picard or anyone else who might be her quarry could’ve suffered the same injuries Shaw did; in fact, Jack was very nearly killed by verterium poisoning, left for dead by the Changeling. Vadic could’ve been toying with the Titan for giggles earlier but it seems inconsistent.
I suppose that in the event this season’s putting together a Picard/Enterprise/Starfleet Revenge Squad the partly biological nebula might contain the remnants of the Crystalline Entity and gotten Vadic to lure our heroes there. Maybe that’s why they’re left drifting into the core.
The stuff between Picard and Crusher is awfully frustrating. Jumping off the previous episodes’ conversations here, I would much rather have had this season leaning into not just Sydney La Forge and Kestra Troi-Riker but what we’ve already seen in this series of Picard as father figure to a next generation — Elnor, Soji, even Raffi, Jurati in a way, and, despite us rather having been told more than shown it given her deference to him, Seven.
Worf, though? Great. I’m thankful he wasn’t made over to be consistent with the Discovery Klingons, too, which is a whole other can of gagh…
@65 Wouldn’t a shuttle have the same problem, though? I’m not a physicist or anything of the kind, but I’m going to pull a Captain America here and say that I think that whatever their power source, a ship’s systems still run on some form of electricity. This particular nebula (or anomaly, whatever) appears to cause electrical interference, which is why all the display screens are fritzing out and the sensors aren’t working correctly. I think an external camera (which I still think starships probably do have) would have the same problem, and a shuttle would likely have an even bigger problem. When you don’t have working technology, you use your natural tools like your eyes. That didn’t bother me in the least
@58 / CLB:
No way. Section 31 is a bunch of liars and criminals. Remember, they infected Odo with a virus that would kill him and the entire Changeling species. Not only is that a cowardly and dishonorable way to strike at an enemy, but it was a direct attack on a man that Worf praised here as a friend and a man of honor. There’s no way Worf would see them as anything but an enemy. I sincerely hope the writers here haven’t forgotten that.
I actually wonder if we’ll find out that the legacy of the morphogenic virus was part of the trigger for the Link’s schism.
When Odo rejoined his people at the end of DS9, he would’ve brought with him knowledge that the plague that had nearly killed them all had been artificially engineered by rogue Federation personnel. I can buy there would be incredulous, apoplectic Changelings who — on top of the humiliation of their failure in the AQ — couldn’t believe the majority of Link would still choose to honor the Female Founders’ surrender agreement rather than nuking the Solids.
It could very well have been the last straw.
@66 The main credits run at the end this season so the guest stars are not spoiled in advance. I remember in the season 1 finale when it listed either Jonathan Frakes or Brent Spiner (I can’t remember which, maybe it was both) as a guest star, which kind of took the impact out of their later reveal in the episode itself.
Vadic obviously wants Jack alive, but she still has to disable the Titan, which creates a risk that he’ll die. I won’t be surprised if she offers them a way out of the gravity well in the next episode in exchange for Jack.
@66/Arben: “I’m not cool with the main credits running at the end. On a feature film this makes sense; not so much for episodic television, especially when serialized.”
If anything, I think it makes less sense in film. In TV, the trend to abandon main title sequences was partly to give people more content up front to persuade them to stick around and not change the channel (the same reason TV shows have cold opens/teasers, and the same reason shows in the ’60s-’80s often showed preview scenes at the start of an episode), and partly to save time as commercials took up an increasing amount of each hour, from about 5-7 minutes per hour in the ’60s to as much as 18-20 minutes per hour by the ’90s. But neither of those is a factor in movies. A movie is as long as it needs to be, and the audience paid in advance to be there, so they have an incentive to stick around. So I don’t see any reason to rush into the story instead of doing a proper title sequence to introduce the players and creative talent.
“I agree that Troi’s only appearance so far being in that video call in the flashback stuck at home with the baby is not great”
I figure it was largely done for practical reasons. They probably only had time and budget to do a full digital de-aging job on two people, so keeping Deanna’s appearance to a brief cameo as a smaller video image made the workload more manageable. I trust she’ll make a larger appearance later in the season.
@67/Chase: “Wouldn’t a shuttle have the same problem, though?”
Depends on the problem. The reason Shaw ordered people sent to look out the back windows was not because of the nebula interference, but because the aft sensors were damaged in the battle.
@69/Chase: “The main credits run at the end this season so the guest stars are not spoiled in advance.”
There have been plenty of times in the past when the credits to a show or movie ran at the front but a surprise guest star was left out and then given a separate credit at the start of the end titles. There was even a Marvel movie (or DC or something) a few years back where a character who made a surprise appearance in the mid-credit scene was not credited until just after the scene ran. So that by itself isn’t enough reason to move the entire title sequence to the end.
@52, yes! Riker being a changeling would explain why he’s been so out of character this season. From the dumb plan to use the Titan to find Crusher, to humiliating ensign LaForge on the bridge, to his weird behavior with Picard at the end of this episode. Please let this be the twist!
@64 & 65 – The problem with looking out the windows is that they were in an absurdly bright and cloudy nebula. By the time they could see the Shrike, it was already within weapons range. Visual sensors would be able to do the same job as someone looking out a window.
@71 The whole point of Changeling infiltrators is that they for the most part don’t act weird, otherwise they wouldn’t be able to do their job. The Bashir Changeling was on DS9 for a whole month during a cold war and nobody noticed until the real Bashir came out of the wormhole, and the Martok Changeling only got caught (after two years!) because he couldn’t control his hatred of Odo and Odo is a damn fine detective. On a real-world level, making a big fuss about bringing the TNG crew back and then having one of the most important members replaced by a Changeling for most of the season would be a terrible idea. Our heroes are simply not as sharp as they used to be (except for Worf, he still cuts things very well), which I think was done deliberately so that when they come back together and do their jobs well at the end of the season it will be a bigger deal.
@70 I know guest stars have been hidden that way before, but it is not how Star Trek has done it in the streaming era so I assumed that was the reason for the change this season. I’m perfectly okay with it, since it doesn’t interrupt the action as much. Also, anybody else find it weird that Todd Stashwick isn’t in the credits?
@65 I think the believably is franchise dependent. “Look out a window” totally fits in something like Gundam or Yamato but not in something on the harder sci-fi side like the Expanse. Trek is pretty flexible on the sciencey side of things but in this particular case I think they added a scene to the episode that wasn’t plot critical and that stretched belief a too bit far for me.
And they are in an almost identical situation to Wrath of Khan, which I feel is a really well known part of Trek lore. It doesn’t ruin anything, it’s mostly just something I feel they should have cut in the writers room.
Your shuttlecraft idea is solid. Those have been shown time and again to have more plot flexibility than most Trek technology. I’d even buy sending folks out with tricorders, which are much cheaper option to film. The range on those is plot dependent but it’s reasonable to me that if a human has line of sight a tricorder can pick something at least that far away.
I think it stuck in my head along with Riker’s blaming of Picard at the episode’s end and a couple minor things because my personal experience of watching Picard is they ask for a suspension of disbelief more often than the plot demands or earns. But it didn’t really impact my enjoyment of the episode. It’s more of the feeling that because they were doing so well that when the episode hit a pothole (plothole?) it was a “aw, c’mon”.
What I’d love is someone referencing Peanut Hamper in an aside about weird killer robots. “You should see some of the weird AIs they have locked up there – what was that one bitchy one, ‘Nut Humper’, or something? Who names these things?” :cheeky grin:
@73/Chase: “Also, anybody else find it weird that Todd Stashwick isn’t in the credits?”
Memory Alpha says he is, the first name in the Guest Starring credits, before Amanda Plummer.
@76 I meant the outro with the cool images and music. Ed Speleers is listed there, which must mean that he’s a series regular and Stashwick is not. But I wonder why that is? Some union thing I don’t understand?
I’m surprised that no one has commented on the similarities in the last scene with The Hunt for Red October, when the Russian Alpha sub has it’s torpedo turn to home in back on itself, and the XO says, “You arrogant @@@@@$$, you’ve killed US.”
@whichever: Oh, I meant to say to the point that “The Founders must have been so sore at the Federation for creating a disease to kill them”, that we know from “The Quickening” that they consider biological warfare as fair play.
Starships have lights for our benefit, not for theirs. It’s irrelevant in space travel, and if it exposes you to potential enemies, you turn the lights off. Also, yes – starship confrontations on screen often look like they’re contesting a space in a parking lot. But space is big; Earth’s Moon is about 1.2 light-seconds away – and doesn’t it look small? But well lit, I admit.
Anyone else think that last week’s episode in retrospect was mostly filler? I know we were introduced to Vadic, but nothing else of great importance is sticking to my memory. Seems like you could go straight from episode one to three and not miss much. I hope the rest are as tightly packed with story as 17 Seconds was.
@77/Chase: “I meant the outro with the cool images and music.”
Yes, exactly. It lists the main cast and the featured guest stars over the console images, and Memory Alpha’s cast lists follow the onscreen listings. So if MA lists him as the first name in the guest star credits, that should be his position in the onscreen credits. If he hadn’t been there, they would’ve said “(uncredited).”
“Ed Speleers is listed there, which must mean that he’s a series regular and Stashwick is not. But I wonder why that is? Some union thing I don’t understand?”
Because Jack is a main character this season and Shaw is a supporting character with less screen time. Also, it’s quite possible that Shaw won’t be in every episode this season. Given how badly he was injured here, we may not see much more of him.
@79/Robert: “Oh, I meant to say to the point that “The Founders must have been so sore at the Federation for creating a disease to kill them”, that we know from “The Quickening” that they consider biological warfare as fair play.”
Just because they consider it fair play to use on others doesn’t mean they won’t get angry when others use it on them. Many people’s definition of “fair play” is “It’s fair for me to do whatever I want and unfair for others to stop me.”
“Starships have lights for our benefit, not for theirs. It’s irrelevant in space travel, and if it exposes you to potential enemies, you turn the lights off.”
Running lights, perhaps. If we’re talking about realism rather than Trekkism, then any plausibly powerful engine would run extremely hot and probably give off a very bright exhaust plume. And as someone suggested, a tricorder could be used to scan for thermal or radio signatures. You can’t hide those in space.
If we’re talking Trek, though, then the only times we’ve seen starships run dark is when they’re playing dead, like in “Balance of Terror.” Which is something you do when you’re vulnerable and trying to fool a superior foe. Here, the Shrike is the superior foe by a considerable margin, far more heavily armed than the Titan and far less damaged. So it has no reason to try to hide. Hell, Vadic probably wants them to see her coming, because she seems to be the sort who likes to terrorize her prey.
Something else that I thought was going to happen was that the nebula was a cosmozoan life form and the Shrike was tracking them by following the wound trail through the creature. Wherever they go in the living creature the body reacts in an easily detectable way, so any time the ship is moving the lifeform is reacting in a way that they can easily follow.
The Verterium leak confused me greatly, not only from knowing that Verterium is an alloyed component in Warp Coils as Mr. Bennett pointed out. A starship, like a submarine is a completely sealed and encased environment. How is a Verterium leak in an interior compartment going to leave a trail in space that would be detectable by an exterior ship? If the leak was being leaked to space, then the entire compartment would be a vacuum. So a verterium leak inside the ship should NOT have been traceable by the Shrike.
Incidentally… tea with sugar?? Doesn’t La Sirena have any honey aboard?
@83. ChristopherLBennett — I’m holding out for a cameo where one of the Rios holograms refuses on principle to replicate prune juice.
I just played the end credits of the latest episode again. Only the main cast members and special guest stars have their names over what Chase dubs “the cool images and music” — those, after director and other front-billed crew. We then get, in blue text against a black screen, some additional producer credits and the remainder of the guest stars, beginning with Todd Stashwick.
@85/Arben: Right, that makes sense — I should’ve realized. From a contractual standpoint, it’s much the same as older shows like TNG showing the main cast over the opening titles and the guest cast at the start of Act 1. Except here, the “special guest stars” are included in the “main title” credits.
It’s just that I remembered noticing Thomas Dekker’s name and didn’t remember whether I’d seen it above the graphics or in the later credits against black. So I made the wrong guess.
Another fun, entertaining hour however, I didn’t like all of it. For one, Beverly’s explanation for hiding Jack was completely expected and yet disappointing (as in my disappointment with her). I took Picard’s side because he had a right to know and he was robbed of making that decision whether he was to be a part of Jack’s life or not. Beverly also always knew the risks of having a kid with Picard. It shouldn’t have come to her as some profound revelation. After all, she had spent six of the seven seasons on TNG and 4 feature films where all sorts of bad shit happened around and involving Picard. I’m also disappointed in that this seems to be a reoccurring situation with the women in the 23rd and the 24th centuries (Carol Marcus, K’Ehleyr, and now Beverly). At least K’Ehleyr let Worf know about Alexander when the latter was only about 2 years old or so. David and Jack were already full grown men when they met their fathers. And like Krad mentioned, once Picard retired from Starfleet and was left alone, Beverly could have informed him about Jack then. Well, whatever, it gives the characters conflict with each other which I know the actors love even though I don’t think the motivations are consistent with the characters themselves.
I was ambivalent about the reveal of the changelings as the big baddie (or one of them anyway) of the season. This is because with the exception of Worf, they have no on-screen connection as antagonists with the rest of the TNG crew so it feels very left field. I thought the revelation of the bad guy or guys would be a character or race from the TNG series. I think the missing tech from Daystrom Institute will be Lore and the holographic module with Moriarty.
The Worf and Raffi team up was great and the dialogue as awesome and had me cracking up. This indeed could certainly be its own spin-off show. Maybe now people can shut about Raff’s story being disconnected from the rest of the show or it being boring. Worf’s new look is throwing me a bit. I mean he looks just fine, but it seems to me like Dorn has less makeup on his face than in years past so his real appearance comes through more, and I guess all that padding under the uniform is gone as Worf appears thinner as well.
I had no idea that the changeling they capture is played by the same kid who was in Generations and in Voyager for a couple of episodes. I also remember him from an episode of Seinfeld where he plays an obnoxious kid in a hospital and he comes across as such a phony Hollywood kid actor. But good for him that he’s continued acting and he put in a good performance too.
I was baffled that the changeling on Titan nearly killed Jack by leaving him alone in the chamber filled with gas. I thought the whole point of Vadic’s mission is to take Jack alive. So that was a head-scratcher. Is Vadic herself a changeling? I’m guessing not because then what’s up with the cigar smoking and her scars. It’s also a bit disappointing that she didn’t get much characterization this episode at all – just spouting commands to fire to her bridge crew.
The stuff with Jack almost dying in sickbay surrounded by Beverly and Picard was actually emotional to me as it fit in with the whole 17 seconds theme and Riker’s loss of his son. I even considered it a possibility that Jack could die given that this is the era of “dark” Star Trek series. But it was nice of course that he survived.
The Picard-Riker banter was a hallmark of the episode. However, it is really silly for Riker to throw a tantrum at the end of the episode. Riker is the one in charge and if nothing he’s doing is effective and he tries Picard’s advice and it doesn’t work out, he shouldn’t get all pissy at Picard about it. Seems like more forced conflict.
Anyway, I’m loving how this season is like a love letter to 90’s-era Star Trek fans as we’re now incorporating references to DS9. I’m still hoping for appearances from Ro, Lefler, Shelby, Ogawa, Barclay, Keiko, O’Brien, and Janeway among others.
Is it just me or does Captain Riker’s behaviour make anyone else wonder if there’s more than one Changeling on the USS Titan? (Something feels … off and I’m wondering if that might be deliberate, rather than a misjudgement by the writing staff).
Also, we can only hope Captain Shaw gets his chance to finally take that apology like the ungrateful old snark he is!
Oh, and if Mr Worf isn’t a dahar master by this point I shall be terribly, terribly disappointed.
Picard is an exercise in contradictions for me. I feel like the episodes keep getting stronger and more compelling even as I find my self shaking my head at the JJ Abrams-sized plot holes (As Keith notes, Beverly had an unplanned pregnancy? How in the hell is that still a thing in the late 24th century? At the very least, that deserved to be addressed, like Jack’s English accent). I found myself moved by the scene between Picard and Crusher even as I shook my head at the implausibility of the circumstances that brought them there. Seeing Worf, however, was an unadulterated joy. I laughed out loud when he asked Raffi if she wanted Chamomile tea. And I love how he calls her Raffaela–coming from him, it seems deeply respectful rather than simply formal. Finally, bringing the Changelings into the series seems like a great plot twist rather than just a rehash of previous movie themes. That’s an enemy I wouldn’t mind revisiting.
Other people have said this, and I’m gonna repeat it — we haven’t seen these people for twenty years. In Riker’s case in particular, he’s spent all of those twenty years as either a ship captain or a ship captain on bereavement leave, as a husband, and as a father — he was precisely none of those things for the fifteen years that we followed him on a TV show and four movies. Given everything he’s been through, it makes perfect sense for him to have changed in the intervening years. Why is it cool when Worf acts different but “OMG he must be a changeling!” when Riker does?
—Keith R.A. DeCandido
garreth @@@@@ 87:
In last night’s episode of The Ready Room, the makeup artists said that the new prosthetic pieces were silicone rather than foam latex, as 4K is requiring everyone to up their game.
One last issue I have. I do enjoy seeing Worf again. However, I am disappointed with how redundant his and Raffi’s side of things are to the overall story. What have they learned? A portal weapon has fallen into the hands of the bad guys and the Changelings are back, which… is what the Picard side of the story is also revealing to us. Or vice versa. One side is being a tad redundant.
Also on rewatch I did find it odd to hear Worf explaining to Raffi who the Changelings are. Shouldn’t that be common knowledge? Or at least something an intelligence agent would already know, right? Might as well have a Memory-Alpha pop-up appear on the screen. “The Founders are a shapeshifting race who…”
Plenty of folks who can get pregnant now can’t tolerate hormonal forms of contraceptives and have difficulties with barrier methods; while I’d hope that by this point science would have come up with extremely reliable/relatively non-invasive birth control, there are always going to be failure rates. I’d have welcomed a line to the effect of “The formulation of my implant changed and welp, here we are”.
@92/Epiphyta: I watched that program too and it made sense that the makeup is now more realistic looking and probably easier on the actor too. However, my point is that Worf now looks even more human-like and I’m not sure whether that’s intentional or not. I still prefer this look to what Discovery did to the Klingons and I’m glad Worf wasn’t reimagined to take on that look as well.
@87/garreth: “I was ambivalent about the reveal of the changelings as the big baddie (or one of them anyway) of the season. This is because with the exception of Worf, they have no on-screen connection as antagonists with the rest of the TNG crew so it feels very left field.”
Whereas I feel that the fact that we never saw the TNG cast (besides Worf) interact with the Changelings is exactly why it’s good to do it here. What’s the point of just paging through old photo albums? Give us something we haven’t seen before, even if it’s just mixing old elements in a way we didn’t get to see.
Heck, maybe we’ll even get some mention of what the Enterprise crew did during the Dominion War, filling in a gap barely touched on in Insurrection and otherwise explored only in novels and comics.
@91/krad: “Why is it cool when Worf acts different but “OMG he must be a changeling!” when Riker does?”
It’s not about cool, it’s about whether it makes any sense at all. It’s Captaining 101 that you don’t undermine your bridge crew’s confidence in your leadership by arguing with your first officer in front of them (that’s literally what ready rooms are for), and you sure as hell don’t let your bridge crew hear that their captain has given up and thinks they’re doomed. Riker would never change enough to forget such fundamentals of leadership. It goes beyond change to dangerous incompetence. So either he’s being very badly written, or he’s not actually Will Riker. It’s being generous to the show to hope for the latter.
@91 – I don’t think that Riker is a changeling but it would be a possible explanation for his “My wife and daughter could be happy to get rid of me for a while”. If people think that they’re having problems, they’re not likely to contact Deanna to enquire for fear of seeming nosy. We could end up with Riker showing up at some point to confront his double (or would it be triple since Thomas may still be out there someplace).
@71 I wasn’t saying Riker was the changeling.
Jean Luc was lured to sickay by the assault on Jack.
Picard left the bridge to see his son. The restart of Jack’s heart led to an elated grin on Picard’s face.
Cut to Worf and Raffi interrogating their prisoner and revealing him to be a changeling.
Cut to Picard stepping out of the turbolift in an entirely different mood then we last saw him.
In the 17 seconds between sickbay and the bridge, Picard may have been replaced by a changeling, and the changeling bullheadedly continuing the same argument that a chamgeling hiding on the bridge would have heard Picard make before he left.
In contrast to the mind-reading behaviour we saw earlier when Riker ordered a torpedo launch to create a shockwave.
If Riker is actually a changeling then the real Riker is dead and probably Troi and Kestra too to cover the changeling’s tracks. But that’s too morbid even for Kurtzman-era Trek. Therefore Riker is not a changeling and is just being written badly lol.
Our discussion has shown one annoying flaw in the Changeling reveal: now everyone’s going to want to play Spot the Changeling! If any of our heroes is replaced by a Changeling for anything more than like one scene where they’re quickly discovered, I will be very, very disappointed.
The conflict between Riker and Picard is happening because they’re both out of sorts about the situation. Yes, Riker acted a touch unprofessionally. He screwed up. That makes it more likely that he is himself. After Picard finally has his first father-son chat with Jack, he and Riker will talk out the problem and fix their relationship.
Oh, and that Trill doctor is the worst! So arrogant and ignorant! I swear that these characters are being written as jerks just for conflict and drama because humanity and other Federation species should be beyond such pettiness by the 25th century. Still, I got a kick out of seeing Crusher knead Shaw’s stomach for internal bleeding because I’m currently in an EMT academy and just this past week we learned that skill to check for internal injuries.
@96/CLB: I get the perspective of wanting to get more backstory on the Ent-E’s actions during the Dominion War and/or seeing this crew interact with a well-known foe we’ve never seen them up against. But from all the teases we’ve had for this season, I was anticipating some kind of antagonist that’s come back or at least is tangentially related to one of the Ent-D’s missions during the TNG series days. Like for lack of a better example, another crystalline entity coming for Picard and company because the original crystalline entity destroyed in “Silicon Avatar” is this new one’s mate. I know, that wouldn’t exactly make for a thrilling adversary.
I believe Terry Matalas hinted that an upcoming episode would answer a long-running question that TNG fan’s had. I wonder what that could be though. Like whatever happened to Ro? Or Thomas Riker? Or the alien Ethan from “Future Imperfect”? Or Mirasta Yale from “First Contact”? The possibilities are endless!
The portal weapon and it’s usage against the Titan was pretty cool. It was reminiscent of the portal bookend scenes in X-Men: Days of Future Past (coincidentally also starring Patrick Stewart)).
Although I must say, that menacing sound we hear whenever the Shrike makes an appearance on screen is already getting overused to the point where I’m finding it comical. But I’m sure it’ll come back in Episode 4 and 5 and the whole rest of the season.
The one thing that really bugged me is Beverly’s absolute and utter certainty that she absolutely did the best thing. Jean-Luc led a dangerous life. So? Should the wives of policemen and soldiers hide their children from their fathers and disappear for twenty years too? There wasn’t a moment of doubt or regret in the conversation she had with Jean-Luc. It felt a little too much honestly.
@86. ChristopherLBennett — You don’t see guest casts at the start of streaming series much, it seems, even when the opening credits are, well, at the opening and when they vary based on which regulars are in that episode, like series do these days, along with perhaps special guest stars. On TNG and such back in the day you’d get less notable guests and recurring background characters at the end, rather than at top of Act 1, usually listed as co-starring rather than guest-starring. I’ve found it strange that with all up-front cast and production credits occurring in the opening title sequence pretty much the entire Discovery bridge crew beyond Burnham and Saru gets relegated to those end co-starring credits despite them having taken on a more central role in latter seasons. On TOS just about everybody who’s not Kirk, Spock, and McCoy got bunched up on title cards at the end, it’s true, be they one-and-done or recurring, but that was a different era. Whatever; I mostly played the credits to satisfy my curiosity and respond to Chase, not to correct your comment @76 because it wasn’t actually in error.
@99 – Bashir and Martok wren’t killed when tjey were replaced.
It was a fun episode and one of the best of this entire series. As long as you dont nitpick or analyze too deeply. The show is feeling very Wrath of Khan-y.
Also, I thought I read that Marina Sirtis is barely in this season so I wouldn’t expect too much more of her.
Now there's an episode daring to surpass expectations and toy with viewer's emotions in almost sadistic ways. For a moment, I actually thought the show was going to do away with Jack Crusher, mirroring Picard/Beverly's situation with Riker/Troi's. They even set it up in the beginning with the flashback and Riker as a new dad of a son he has no idea he's bound to lose in just a few years.
As I expected, the Titan was going to suffer immensely over Picard's decision last week. Not only with the crew casualties (as well as Shaw), but also in the way it set up Picard and Riker as opposing forces. If there was any doubt before this week, this episode more or less sets in stone the concept that even as a senior officer, an Admiral cannot override a captain's authority in his ship. This made for some spetacularly tense moments between the two old friends. That Picard would be the aggressive war hawk in this situation doesn't feel out of character, when you factor in his newfound fatherhood – a feeling he's not remotely prepared to deal with.
The big Picard/Crusher clashing scene early on felt a little flat at first. I expected more sparks of tension, but it played better a second time. Part of the problem is that much of what happened between them more than likely took place during the TNG movie era. They say there were 5 attempts at actual romance. I'd say the first one took place shortly after All Good Things… (which would make sense – not only the kiss, but it takes place mere months after Attached). But the remaining ones? There are 8 years between Generations and Nemesis. It could have happened at any point (minus Insurrection, obviously). And only now we find out Picard had been targeted multiple times by Romulan extremists during the post-Nemesis era. It's an inherent problem of visiting these characters when these movies only happen every 3 years or so. We skip stuff that we'd see during the regular TV show.
And what an ending! The way Picard's actions really crippled them. I'm more intrigued as to who exactly is Vadic now. As they said, your average bounty hunter wouldn't be this equipped and prepared. I've never seen such an effective use of new technology. The she employed the portal weapon and turned their torpedoes against them. Brutal.
And then there's the Raffi/Worf side of things. I adore this new version of Worf. Very much one based off of his experiences on DS9. Complex, but retaining the trademark sense of humor. Also, TNG-era Worf was never this competent as an investigator. Evidently Odo's influence from his years on DS9. This is a pairing that always seemed likely, especially given Raffi's own turbulent emotional state of being.
I was not expecting Changelings to factor into the plot. The minute that 'engineer's' face shimmered, I knew what we were in for. Good to know we're also dealing with a major element of DS9 that always deserved more closure.
@100/Chase: “Our discussion has shown one annoying flaw in the Changeling reveal: now everyone’s going to want to play Spot the Changeling!”
As long as the writers don’t. I feel the Battlestar Galactica reboot lost its way when it became preoccupied with “Who’s the next secret Cylon?”, which was by far the least interesting aspect of its premise.
@104/Arben: “I’ve found it strange that with all up-front cast and production credits occurring in the opening title sequence pretty much the entire Discovery bridge crew beyond Burnham and Saru gets relegated to those end co-starring credits despite them having taken on a more central role in latter seasons.”
They’ve been given more to do than before, but I wouldn’t say they’re more central than the credited regulars. They’re still pretty much supporting players. And credit placement is all worked out by strict contractual guidelines and can’t be easily rearranged. I mean, Chief O’Brien was a pretty major supporting character by the later seasons of TNG, but he was still listed as a guest star only until he was spun off as a regular on DS9. And look at all the DS9 supporting characters who became major parts of the show, like Rom and Nog and Garak and Martok, yet were never promoted to regulars. Credits are about contracts and pay, not about screen time or story focus.
“On TOS just about everybody who’s not Kirk, Spock, and McCoy got bunched up on title cards at the end, it’s true, be they one-and-done or recurring, but that was a different era.”
Not so different, because those three (and only Shatner & Nimoy in season 1) were the only ones who were full regulars in TOS, with the others being semi-regulars signed to a finite number of episodes. So the only real difference is how large the core cast is, as opposed to the recurring/supporting cast.
@103/Zaku: I agree. Beverly is acting like she just met Picard post-Nemesis and didn’t know all of the dangers of Starfleet; not someone who herself has faced danger in Starfleet multiple times like being held hostage by terrorists and sucked into a pocket universe.
@105/kkozoriz: I was being half-serious because I know that Martok and Bashir weren’t killed when they were being replaced by Changelings. But the smart thing would have been to kill them as has been done to all of the other people the Changelings replaced. Bashir wasn’t killed because he was a series regular and Martok was brought back as a dramatic reveal.
At the risk of being stupid, do we know where Thomas Riker is?
@109 – of course Bashir had plot armour. Martok did too once he signed the contract as a semi-regular. But they’re not going to kill off Troi during what is billed as a TNG reunion.
It’s Star Trek, our heroes wouldn’t stand much of a chance if the villians didn’t act like morons when it counted. Like Chang in TUC. He just couldn’t be satisfied with blowing up the Enterprise while cloaked. He had to let Kirk know who was shooting at him. Khan too
I can’t remember… What ever happened to the Female Shapeshifter at the end of DS9? I know Odo agreed to rejoin the Great Link if she agreed to end the war, but was she imprisoned?
@107 “I was not expecting Changelings to factor into the plot. The minute that ‘engineer’s’ face shimmered, I knew what we were in for. Good to know we’re also dealing with a major element of DS9 that always deserved more closure.”
I assumed it was some sort of masking technology, like Marvel’s photostatic veil, that was malfunctioning. The Changeling took me by surprise. (And grossed me out, because it looked like my dog’s vomit.)
@111 – He hasn’t been mentioned since Kira promised to rescue him from the Cardassians
I don’t know. I was hoping for something other than “You had your world, and I had mine. And I wanted him in mine, not chasing through the universe with his father.”
Actually, now that I read through that Carol Marcus quote, it might actually be better than the convoluted rationale Beverly gave here.
Beverly literally took every reason she could think of to not tell Picard about his son and threw it against the wall, hoping something would stick; it didn’t. None of it tracks, especially because Beverly was “chasing through the universe” with Picard, knew him even before Picard became her CO, then close friend and eventual, on-again off-again lover.
That Beverly didn’t trust in Picard to even tell him about his son just makes nothing like sense, especially since this very series established Picard sitting around on the family vineyard in France for fourteen years.
Otherwise a very good, well-paced episode. Worf! Squee! Count me as one hoping for more of this great dual act of Worf and Raffi.
Also, I don’t think Riker is a Changeling; he’s just a man who has gone through a lot of shit in the twenty years since we last saw the TNG crew together on screen. I wasn’t surprised to see Riker focus on getting the Titan-A crew home above all else. Riker is a man who has endured unimaginable loss, and that would definitely change him. Riker is not in his prime, and that lapse in judgment where he kicks Picard off the bridge and says, in front of the entire bridge crew that they’re all dead shows that.
It did warm my heart to hear that reference to Odo.
Fallout from the Dominion War is definitely overdue for exploring; it would probably be too much of a tonal shift to do it on Lower Decks (although we did get an attack from the Breen) so Picard is the ideal show to do that. I’m definitely onboard.
A couple of thoughts…
First, it’s a little unfair that Ricker puts all the blame over Picard’s shoulders. He’s in that moment the captain of the new Titan so he has the last word and the only final responsability.
Second… Even for 24th century medical technology Crusher accidentally pregnant should be very difficult due to her age. So maybe it wasn’t that, an accident, but a deliberate act helped by some kind of treatment, something that would add an interesting additional layer to all that mess with Picard.
@73 / Chase:
Our heroes are simply not as sharp as they used to be (except for Worf, he still cuts things very well), which I think was done deliberately so that when they come back together and do their jobs well at the end of the season it will be a bigger deal.
Yeah, I like how uniquely qualified Worf is here in this situation.
We know the 1701-E participated in the War, but we know nothing canonically beyond their diplomatic showing-the-flag role in Insurrection. We don’t know if they saw combat or dealt with any Changeling infiltration on their end.
Worf, by contrast, was right there on the front lines of the UFP-Dominion Cold War and emerged as a key player in the eventual conflict.
In terms of on-screen canon, he’s the best qualified expert of the TNG characters; he knows all too well what they’re dealing with and just how much trouble they’re all in.
@110/Robert Carnegie —
No, we don’t know where Thomas Riker is. As far as canon is concerned, he’s still at the Lazon II labor camp. My headcanon follows Peter David’s novel Imzadi II (I LOVE the imzadi novels!) and he escaped.
I personally think it’d be GREAT to see Thomas Riker again. However, I don’t have any doubt that the person we’re seeing now is Will Riker.
BTW, like @93/Dingo, I also thought it was odd that Worf was telling Raffi that the Dominion was an enemy of the Federation. She’s old enough to know that!
Regarding Beverly’s choice–
I don’t think we’re supposed to think ‘Oh, this was a perfectly reasonable idea. She made the right choice.” I saw a comment on Twitter about showing that characters have flaws and that stuck with me.
Beverly made her choice out of pure fear. There were so many attempts on Picard’s life in a short period of time, she was scared for her baby and she made a very rash decision. By the time Jean-Luc retired, it was five years later and, again, she chickened out, because how do you drop something like that after five years?
So, I don’t think we’re supposed to think of this as a perfectly logical and correct decision; it was purely an emotional one.
As far as I can tell, they’ve ALL been replaced by Changelings, except for Worf and Raffi.
Picard wants to take on a ship that has them out-gunned a hundred times over, because saving his son is the only thing that matters? His ideals, his ethics, his lifelong devotion to Starfleet and to the ideals of the Federation — NONE of this is important to him, now that he has a son? Must be a Changeling.
Riker tells Picard that you’d “burn down the whole world” to save your child, and we’re supposed to APPLAUD that? Riker’s ideals, his ethics, his lifelong devotion to Starfleet and to the ideals of the Federation — NONE of this is important to him, now that he has a son? Must be a Changeling.
Troi is a shrew who doesn’t understand what anybody else is feeling? Must be a Changeling.
Beverly keeps Picard’s son from him even after he has retired to his vineyard and the danger he potentially poses to Jack is over? Must be a Changeling.
NO ONE feels in character to me, except for Worf and Raffi. Yet the fandom seems mostly to be loving this season. I don’t get it! The showrunners have changed all of the characters to be short-sightedly concerned only with their own families and their own issues; they’ve made all of them abandon their ideals … and the fandom takes the show to its collective bosom and adores it?!
Geeze, Louise, you guys aren’t all Changelings, too, are you? :-)
@112/bgsu98
She agreed to stand trial for war crimes. Probably a Federation trial, rather than a Cardassian one, so she would likely have been imprisoned rather than executed. Actually, I suspect that the Dominion would have made her not being executed a condition of their peace treaty.
@112 & 121: The novels posited that the Female Shapeshifter was held in the Federation’s most secure penal facility.
@120/Corylea: Love your comment! Yes, pretty much everyone is acting like they could be a Changeling!
@112,121,122: Hopefully after more than two decades, the Female Changeling was designated a name other than Female Changeling.
Her name is Stephanie. Done.
“Female Changeling” isn’t even an accurate description, but “Changeling who habitually assumes the appearance of a female version of Odo(‘s habitually assumed male appearance)” is a bit of a mouthful.
@124: Works for me! Although, I wouldn’t be mad if they settled on Beatrice.
I always informally thought of the Female Shapeshifter as Salome, after her actress.
I suppose the in-universe adddress for her would probably have been something like “Founder Leader” or “Chief Founder.”
It would be interesting if one of the goals of this Changeling splinter group was to have the Female Changeling (for lack of a better name) released from whatever Federation prison where she’s being held. I don’t think Salome Jens is acting much these days, based on her IMDb, but it would still be interesting to see her.
I wonder what her prison time is like? Does she spend most of her time in liquid form? Is her cell essentially a giant pool? Does she shapeshift when she’s bored? Does she appear in her humanoid form if she gets visitors? I assume she’d be allowed visitors, especially if one of them was Odo.
@127 / Chase:
It would be interesting if one of the goals of this Changeling splinter group was to have the Female Changeling (for lack of a better name) released from whatever Federation prison where she’s being held.
Maybe.
But they might also hold her personally accountable for the Dominion’s defeat. As the lead Founder on the AQ side of the wormhole, she had full jurisdiction over the prosecution of the War (between the minefield and the Prophets blocking Dominion transit).
From their perspective, the defeat and ruination of 6 years of infiltration and annexation happened on her watch. She chose to surrender rather than fight to the last Jem’Hadar and make the Solids bleed for their victory (never mind that if she and Odo hadn’t struck that bargain, they and the rest of the Link would all be dead now).
@108. ChristopherLBennett — You misinterpreted what I was commenting on. I’m sorry I wasn’t clearer. Just briefly* to, I hope, rectify that and not be argumentative:
First, I didn’t mean that the non-command bridge crew became more central than the main characters but that they became more central relative to their own limited exposure or focus earlier on. Second, I understand about credit placement re contracts and such but I was drawing a parallel between TOS and now Discovery and Picard versus the intervening decades where most shows, including TNG, had that string of guest and production credits at top of Act One as a supplement to the standard opening sequence, with the bit players and other personnel listed at the very end.
TOS lumped together regulars beyond the up-front big two/three, like Scott and Uhura, with recurring characters like Kyle and done-in-one guests who didn’t get their own solo or duo title card the way, oh, Arlene Martel did as T’Pring or, for that matter, DeForest Kelley did in Season 1. Now Discovery has Owosekun, Detmer, et al. lumped together at the end as opposed to the stars and, unique to this new era, the special guests playing, say, Georgiou and Spock in the opening sequence for episodes in which they appear. While I enjoy that we get variable credits in an opening sequence now, most usually for cable and streaming dramas rather than broadcast, the loss of that litany of credits over the start of Act One that broadcast still uses, in fact often leading with the regulars’ names since a number of shows’ opening sequences are too brief to include them, means Picard runs the credit for Todd Stashwick as Shaw in the nondescript end roll after many viewers have already checked out.
*Um…
Unless I missed it, kind of surprised no one has mentioned the Raffi interrogation of the changeling. I thought it was despicable last week when Raffi’s baby daddy used her own guilt as a mother against her, forcing her to make a choice between her job and her child. I’m no happier with her this week for waving a fix in front of someone she thought was an addict to try to extract information out of him.
Someone earlier mentioned the irony that the pacifist Worf has dispatched 2 beings in the last two weeks in pretty gruesome fashion. And now we know beeadings are on Wednesday, but he cut that Ferengi’s head off on Thursday without much imminent need to do so.
I guess the point of Jack’s defibrillation scene was to set up the tension between Picard and Beverly later on, but if I were king I would call a moratorium on all dramatic death scenes that don’t actually result in death. Did anyone really doubt he was going to suddenly jerk back to life? What a trite, hackneyed waste of time.
Now that having been said, I really did enjoy the Picard/Beverly confrontation. Especially Patrick Stewart”s performance. Such genuine indignation.
It’s a cool sound, but I’m getting a little tired of the deep droning foghorn every time the pincer ship shows on up on screen. We get it, it’s a big badass ship that could totally crush the Titan. And besides that it keeps waking up my dog.
Someone earlier questioned Laforge’s daughter describing him as someone who found it difficult to make friends. I think I understand her point. As the commenter noted, Laforge did have friends, some very close ones. But he was naturally awkward in social situations, It’s no surprise that Geordi’s closest friend, Data, was also socially stunted. So I totally buy the suggestion that despite his close circle of trusted friends, beyond that he found it difficult to warm to people past a superficial level. I mean from our perspective, his greatest love affair was with a hologram.
I I hope Shaw heals up and we see more of him. We know he can be a total ass, But he’s also pragmatic in crisis and genuinely seems to be trying to do the right thing to save his ship and his crew.
And count me among those who think there may be some sort of hidden agenda with regard to all this animosity between Riker and Picard. It looked like two actors trying to portray a pretend conflict between two characters who are actually in secret alignment. Ryker is the captain and although Picard badgered him to attack, the decision was ultimately Riker’s. . To call Picard out afterwards by saying you killed us all. That’s out of line, out of character, and just generally a crappy thing to do. We’ll see.
On a side note, I feel the urge to go back and play Portal 2 again . . .
@135/fullyfunctional: “I guess the point of Jack’s defibrillation scene was to set up the tension between Picard and Beverly later on, but if I were king I would call a moratorium on all dramatic death scenes that don’t actually result in death. Did anyone really doubt he was going to suddenly jerk back to life? What a trite, hackneyed waste of time.”
May I request a rider that bans depicting defibrillation as the equivalent of jump-starting a dead car battery? Defibrillation is actually used to try to shock an irregularly beating (fibrillating) heart back into normal rhythm, and is next to useless for restarting a heart that’s already stopped. From what I’ve read, it used to be recommended to try it just in case it was actually a long pause in an irregular heartbeat, which is where the trope came from, but it was always a long shot and it’s no longer standard procedure.
@136/fullyfunctional: I seriously considered it was possible that Jack could be killed off this early. We’re in the post-Game of Thrones era of serial dramas where anything can happen and being a main cast member doesn’t ensure your character’s continued existence into the next episode. Plus, Star Trek across the board in the Kurtzman era is plain darker so I didn’t see it out of the realm of possibilities. Imagine Picard being grief-stricken and even more angered at Beverly now that the son he just met has died. I’m glad that didn’t happen though. Picard really does care for Jack.
It occurred to me, if Jack really is so precious to Vadic that she won’t risk him (and by extension, the Titan) being destroyed in the (sentient?) nebula. I think there’s a good chance she goes back into the gravity well to somehow save the ship and extract Jack and then run off with him. Either that or the science officer tech tech’s their way up and out of danger.
@138/garreth: Given how much this season is determined to recap the TOS movies, it’s entirely possible that Jack will still die — perhaps by getting stabbed in the heart on an exploding planet, whereupon Picard will end up kicking the person who ordered his death off a cliff.
I think Jack will live on, probably in some Next Next Generation spinoff. You know they’ve got to have that in mind. Every new character has the neon glow of ‘new franchise location’ hovering over them. Which might be why Sidney LaForge is smiling.
@140/Dingo: Star Trek: The Even Nexter Generation!
Sidney and Alandra, the LaForge sisters, will serve together aboard the Titan on Star Trek: The Next Next Generation and compare notes on the fellow officers they think are totally cute. Acting nurse Jack Crusher will catch their eye.
:-D
I’d watch that.
It occurs to me that a hypothetical show featuring the children of Picard, Crusher, La Forge, etc. would actually deserve to be called The Next Generation, unlike TNG, which was 3-4 generations later than TOS.
@142 I would take that over all the unnecessary grittiness in modern Trek. (And now I’m starting to yell at cloud miners and telling people to get off my tribble lawn. Sigh.)
@145/gwangung: I think the grittiness in modern Trek as a whole is overstated; most of the shows are actually quite optimistic on balance, but they’re serialized, telling one story per season, and in a single story, things tend to get worse and worse until they improve in the climax. So the seasons may seem dark if you don’t stick around long enough to see their often implausibly upbeat and rosy endings.
So far, however, season 3 of PIC does seem overly gritty for something that purports to be a continuation of TNG. It’s not just that bad things are happening, but that the characters are riven by contrived conflicts that their younger selves would’ve been emotionally mature enough to avoid. TNG’s rules against character conflict may have been overly strict sometimes, but at least they challenged writers to avoid falling into lazy habits of manufacturing gratuitous conflict by having characters be dysfunctional jerks, and instead come up with more complex and interesting reasons why well-adjusted people would have serious differences over an issue. This season seems to have overcompensated in the other direction, and it just doesn’t feel like TNG at all.
@14, I recall B-4 being at the Daystrom Institute at the start of Season 1 and having been put in some kind of storage after having broken down irreparably. I wondered if someone got him functional after stealing him so that it’s a repaired B-4 with which we’re teased.
@119, I like your explanation of Beverly’s decision quite a lot. It’s the subtext that simmered in my brain that made her reason for staying away a lot more powerful and believable than a lot of others seem to have found it. However, the hole that’s grown as I’ve thought about it more is the gap between Jack’s London schooling and gallivanting around the galaxy. I still have the hardest time believing him as only 20 years old; he looks more 30s than 20s to me, which is consistent with the actor’s age.
@135: Oh, I meant also to pitch my headcanon that 23rd-24th century science could resurrect anybody from any death, but the society considers that unethical. So it doesn’t happen. Another difference in attitude from today. “Only in dying, life” perhaps. The specific example is The Next Generation “The Neutral Zone”, where the Enterprise finds some frozen twentieth century humans and nobody wants Data to revive them, but Data is Data. But it also accounts for Dr McCoy and all the others checking the patient and going, “He’s dead, Captain” and usually not having a tedious resuscitation scheme.
In Jean Lorrah’s Star Trek books, it’s explicit that Andorians can’t be resuscitated – which is shown not happening – and that this is because the Andorian soul is believed to leave the body at death, that resuscitating doesn’t bring it back, but it does get you looked at funny after that, including in mirrors.
“tedious resuscitation scene”
This is me being nit-picky, but in this episode, Worf referred to Odo (without actually saying his name) and described him as a “man.” I mean technically speaking, Changelings don’t have sexes, they just emulate the forms of other beings that have masculine and feminine characteristics (like how we always called Salome Jen’s character the “female Changeling.”) Worf could have properly referred to Odo instead as an “alien” or “being” or “individual.”