Welcome back to the Words of Radiance Reread on Tor.com! Last week year, after multiple plots reappeared but didn’t progress much, Carl left us hanging with word of an assassin at the palace. This week, we discover what the attempt involved and what the… er… fallout was. And there is headdesking.
This reread will contain spoilers for The Way of Kings, Words of Radiance, and any other Cosmere book that becomes relevant to the discussion. The index for this reread can be found here, and more Stormlight Archive goodies are indexed here. Click on through to join the discussion.
Chapter 23: Assassin
Point of View: Kaladin
Setting: Elhokar’s Palace
Symbology: Spears, Jezrien
IN WHICH Kaladin races to the palace, where the king is not dead; Elhokar praises Kaladin, to the detriment of every possible relationship in the room; twisted ironwork hangs from the balcony, having demonstrated Elhokar’s upper body strength and command of language decidedly below his station; Kaladin enjoys the heights, to the detriment of Moash’s composure; Kaladin and Dalinar agree that the sabotage was done with a Shardblade, involved someone on the inside, and that their knowledge of those facts need not be made known; Kaladin and Dalinar further agree that this was the work of cowards, amateurs, or someone to whom secrecy matters more than success, and that a real assassination attempt from Sadeas or the Assassin in White would be to the serious detriment of multiple lives; Elhokar rants and whines to the further detriment of Kaladin’s opinion of him, and wishes someone would look for the skeery things in the mirror.
Quote of the Week:
“I eventually want the king being guarded only by men from the bridge crews—men you trust, men who have no part in warcamp politics. Choose carefully. I don’t want to replace potential traitors with former thieves who can be easily bought.”
Kaladin. Listen up. Kaladin, are you listening to this? Kaladin, are you hearing these words? CHOOSE. CAREFULLY. A Shardbearer with a grudge who can be made a tool in someone else’s schemes does not make a noticeably better replacement than a thief who can be bought.
What could possibly go wrong?
::headdesk::
Commentary: “The king was fine.” For some reason, that always makes me chuckle. Great way to start a chapter. “Nobody was dead. Nobody was dead.” (Heh. It reminds me irresistibly: “He’s dead, Dave. Everybody is dead. Everybody—is—dead—Dave.” …uh…sorry… Anyone need the brain bleach?) Kaladin is genuinely surprised to realize that his protectiveness has somehow extended itself to a bunch of lighteyes. He really thinks it should be reserved for those he leads, but now it seems to also include anyone for whom he has some form of responsibility. This makes me snicker.
The theme of trust runs strong in this chapter. The king needs to trust his uncle and his bodyguards. Dalinar needs to trust Kaladin. Kaladin needs to trust Dalinar. All of them need to trust one another, and the bridgemen. Unfortunately, it’s not entirely happening, even when it should.
I can actually cut Elhokar some slack here, at least more than Kaladin does; the railing of his balcony just gave way under him, and he nearly plummeted “a good hundred feet” to his death on the rocks. The fact that he managed to grab and hold on to the railing until someone could pull him in speaks well of his reflexes and his strength, and if he cursed like a caravan worker and is now snarling at everyone in earshot, it’s understandable. Annoying, but understandable. And… we get another hint at something the others consider paranoia, but really isn’t: He wants to know why no one is trying to do anything about the creatures he sees over his shoulder in the mirror. (I keep trying to figure out a way to ask Brandon about this without just getting a RAFO; I haven’t found one yet. Are they Cryptics? IIRC, Brandon said that we would recognize them if we saw them, which makes me think they are Cryptics, but he won’t actually say so. At least, not that I’ve heard.) In any case, I must admit that it would totally be enough to give a body the collywobbles; combined with the near-fall, I can’t fault him for a bit of ranting!
Kaladin, on the other hand, doesn’t trust Dalinar as much as he reasonably ought, IMO—and he trusts Moash too much. Admittedly, it would have been helpful if Dalinar had assured Kaladin of something more than “I’ll talk to Amaram about it” in the last chapter, because who even believes that Amaram would admit the truth? At the same time, Kaladin could have the smarts to look at what Dalinar has already done for him (and all the bridgemen) and give him the benefit of the doubt about the diligence of his inquiries. Sadly, his mistrust of lighteyes runs deep and strong, and he can’t let go of it and trust Dalinar to do what must be done. Worse, he can’t let go and trust Dalinar with all the information he holds—information, and ability, that would truly help Dalinar in ways neither of them can fully realize yet.
::headdesk::
The painful bit is that Dalinar needs to be able to trust Kaladin, and he does—but he really shouldn’t. As long as Kaladin refuses to trust Dalinar, he himself is somewhat untrustworthy in his particular position. I get exasperated with Kaladin later for placing such trust in Moash, with his known grudge against the king. I should probably be more exasperated with Dalinar than I am, because he places enormous trust in Kaladin despite knowing about the Amaram incident and the resultant deep-seated anger. Maybe it’s because I’m an old fart a mature adult like Dalinar and relate to him better than the hot-headed youth, or maybe it’s because I’m outside the story and know more than either of them. Whatever the reason, I get much more frustrated with Kaladin for his misplaced trust and mistrust than I do with Dalinar.
Last time I was writing, I searched long to find a suitable quotation for the cut text. This time, I had a tough time choosing from an eminently quotable chapter. Mostly, I suspect, this is due to the fact that Dalinar and Kaladin have a conversation heavily laden with foreshadowing and insight; there were about a dozen lines that I wanted to pull out and use to beat Kaladin severely about the head and shoulders. Lines like these:
“The storm is yet to come.”
Your job isn’t to judge. Your job is to protect these people. Somehow.
“A man needs to be able to trust his own guards.”
“I don’t know whom I can trust these days. Can I trust you, Kaladin Stormblessed?”
“We’ve been expecting assassins.”
Yes, Kaladin. ALL of those. Can Dalinar trust you? No. No, he can’t—but he will anyway.
In other news… somebody made a distinctly inept attempt to assassinate the king. They tried to make it look like an accident, but I have a hard time figuring out why anyone would believe that a Soulcast railing could be assumed to have merely come apart at a joint, or that iron cleanly cut by a Shardblade could possibly look like it just broke. So either they’re idiots, as Kaladin assumed, or they have some reason to not care if it looks suspicious, as long as they aren’t caught. (Would anyone be stupid enough to think that they were making it look like the Assassin in White was doing a sneak attack? It’s not exactly his MO, right?) If nothing else, I guess it would at least divert attention to known Shardbearers who might be involved in a sabotage, so there’s that. It gives an unknown Shardbearer a bit of advantage, or something. Maybe?
Also, we need this bit of foreshadowing, because it’s cool foreshadowing, y’all!
I wonder if I could survive that fall. . . . He’d dropped half that once before, filled with Stormlight, and had landed without trouble. He stepped back for Moash’s sake, though even before gaining his special abilities, heights had fascinated him. It felt liberating to be up so high. Just you and the air itself.
I meant to ask Brandon about this last night—is Kaladin’s enjoyment of the heights partially (or altogether) an artifact of his bond, or did he have it before Syl found him? (See note at bottom for related Q&A.) In any case, the foreshadowing is, in retrospect, almost blinding.
Sprenspotting: Would you believe there’s not a single mention of spren in this chapter, except for two brief glimpses of Syl at a distance? Has that ever happened before?
Heraldic Symbolism: Jezrien is all over this chapter. Protection and leadership. I don’t really need to say more.
Authorspotting: Okay, that’s not really a recurring unit or anything, but I did have the fun of attending the release party for Firefight at Seattle’s University Bookstore last night. I did the easiest cosplay ever: master-servant. All you need is a white shirt, black skirt (or pants), and a glove (if you’re female) and voilà! Master-servant. It was fun. Spent an hour squinched tightly with friends into a slightly-too-small-for-the-crowd space, and another three hours serving—taking pictures for people, helping Brandon keep track of book numbers as he was signing, whatever. Naturally, I got a bagful of books signed, and had the chance to ask a handful of questions. I’ll give a proper report as soon as I can at least transcribe the questions I asked and answered, but there are a couple of things I thought I’d toss in right here. Paraphrased, because I really don’t have the wherewithal to do transcription tonight:
- The first one was actually in context of a slightly larger question, but he specifically said that a Radiant’s bond gives them more than just the Surges. I used Shallan as an example, and he confirmed that her Memories are indeed an artifact of the bond, not something that is natural to her, and not something that is a result of the Surges at all. Pattern was not drawn by that ability, but was the cause of it. I’m really frustrated that I didn’t remember to ask about Kaladin’s head for heights; while making notes on this chapter, I’d specifically thought about the possible connection with earlier discussions of Shallan’s Memories.
- The other one is something that completely floored me. You know how we’ve all been expecting the next book to be called Stones Unhallowed and be Szeth’s flashback book, because we knew that’s what it would be? Well… ’tain’t necessarily so. Brandon stated last night that he’s planning to outline the remaining three flashback sequences for the first five-book arc, and see which one really fits best with the events of the book. That, among other things, will determine the title of the book—far more than whether/when Patrick Rothfuss releases his third book. BAM!
Are y’all totally wigged now? Watch the comments for a list of my personal Q&A, and when we get the whole thing transcribed (probably on 17th Shard), I’ll make sure it gets a link here.
Whew! Next week, Carl will take us back to the caravan with Shallan, Gaz, and Tyn, and we’ll see what’s shaking out there since the night of the battle with the bandits. (That sure seems like a long time ago, but I think in the book it was just last night.) Meanwhile, join us in the comments for more fun and games.
Alice Arneson is a long-time Tor.com commenter and has the privilege of being a Sanderson beta- and gamma-reader. She enjoys playing master-servant at book signings, creating themed crossword puzzles (mostly for signings), and hanging out with fantasy fans. It’s a good life. And Brandon has promised that if he gains Epic powers, he’ll kill his beta-, gamma-, and proof-readers last, so there’s that, too. Such a relief.
I’m excited about the possibility of Book 3 Dalinar flashbacks.
Alice. It sounds like you had a blast at the signing. Hope you got some useful tidbits out of Brandon (and, of course, some RAFO cards).
At this point in the story, why do you think that Kaladin trusts Moash too much? IIRC they had yet to meet Graves. (On the other hand, if Moash told the story of his grandparents already, then that could answer my question.)
Thanks for reading my musings,
AndrewB
(aka the musespren)
Wait, wait, wait…. BWS still isn’t sure which CHARACTER we’re getting flashbacks from next? That just rocked my world. Hmmmm….
From early on, I’ve been assuming that Elhokar is seeing Cryptics, though I’m not sure what that means. Shallan only saw them in her drawings, and Elhokar seems to only see them in mirrors (?)- maybe they similarly are catching sight of them in different ways because they are both bonded to them? I don’t know, but your info about Shallan’s Memories being related to her bond with Pattern, but not to the surges, may suggest that Elhokar’s bond just works differently than Shallans, using mirrors instead of drawing (both are still visual, but Shallan has an artist’s temperment, while Elhokar is a bit more….self-absorbed, I guess, so it’s fitting that mirrors would be involved in his bond).
Kaladin and Moash: HEADDESK!
I don’t blame Dalinar for letting Kaladin have so much independent power and responsibility. He’s lost the majority of his forces, he knows he has spies for the other Highprinces in his camp and they all want to bring him down, and he (mostly) rightly trusts Kaladin. I DO blame Kaladin for giving Moash shards and a perfect opportunity to assassinate the King, however.
Regarding book 3’s flashback POV being uncertain: I don’t believe this is completely new news. I’m not perfectly sure but I seem to remember hearing that Brandon wasn’t 100% sold on Szeth’s flashbacks fitting appropriately for book 3.
I always assumed that the visions in the mirror were spren, but never really thought Cryptics. Elhokar just doesn’t seem like the Lightweaver type. (Not that I know what that type is, having only Shallan as the example.) But I hadn’t heard that BWS says we’d recognize them. I wonder what other spren could it be? Elhokar seems an unlikely Radiant, so nothing springs to mind for me.
@@.-@ Yeah he’s mentioned it a few times (the first I heard about it was from transcribing audio from last August’s Salt Lake City Comic Con), it’s actually mentioned in the 2014 State of the Sanderson as well.
@4&6: you are right. Something about how the story would work better with someone else’s flashbacks. So that tells me Sanderson writes them independently of each other – main story & flashbacks.
But I’m sure it was news to many people. Prior to me finding Leigh’s WoT re-read, I was totally out of touch with keeping track of my favorite authors. Now I follow Brandon & Peter on FB and with the newsletter.
Go figure. Tor.com is a gateway drug. :-)
Sanderson did write a whole extra Wax&Wyane book for Mistborn because the original sequel was not flowing well. So whatever way works for his brain, works for me.
I always thought that it was a giving that what Elhokar was seeing were the same things Shallan was seeing under Jasner’s tutelage.
Andrew @2 – To clarify, at this point in the story there’s no reason for Kaladin to mistrust Moash other than his general attitude. It’s later, after Moash makes it clear that he blames the king for his grandparents’ death, and Kaladin learns that he was actually involved in this week’s assassination attempt – he still gives Moash a full set of Shards and keeps him on duty and involved in everything. It’s just stupid.
Sheesh.
@several – From the way he said it, I didn’t get the impression Brandon was Making an Announcement about the uncertainty of the flashback character, so I was pretty sure there would be a few folks here who had heard at least some rumor about it. It was just a conversation at the signing table. I included it here because a) I hadn’t heard anything that direct before and b) he was specifically talking about the decision process he’s going through to determine the flashback sequence. Also c) because I was reasonably sure there were a lot of folks here who hadn’t heard about it at all.
MikeyRocks @8: It’s not completely a given, although I think most people think they are Cryptics, based on Elhokar’s line from TWoK:
Signing sounds like it was awesome. Looking forward to the Q&A.
It really is great knowing you’ll be the last to die! :) That’s a huge relief… I think…
Maybe my sucky memory is tripping me up again, but I thought I remembered that Elkohar cut the railings himself?
Ever since finishing my last reread, I’ve been waiting for this chapter to come up so I’d have context for my question :)
In chapter 46, at the inn, Graves tells Kaladin that he’s a patriot who believes that the best way to save the kingdom is to assassinate Elhokar so that Dalinar will take the throne. In chapter 84, after Kaladin levels up, Graves says “We focused on making certain you were separated from Dalinar” and Kaladin quickly figures out that there’s only one possible reason why the Diagram could desire that separation. After reading that, I assumed that, since Graves knew that Dalinar was a target for the Assassin, his whole “I’m a patriot” thing was just for show, a way to convince other people to help him. But, in chapter 87, when Moash asks who Graves really is, he replies with the same story as before: “I thought … that if we removed Elhokar, Dalinar would become our ally in what is to come.”
What gives? Did Graves really believe in his patriot plot and somehow not realize that the Diagram wanted his intended king dead as well? Was he still somehow trying to save face with Moash and hoping that Moash wouldn’t figure it out? Am I missing something else going on here?
Also, it seems that a little thing like “throwing a country into choas because its king died” is something the Diagram would care about; yet it’s clear that Taravangian only cares about Dalinar and not about Elhokar. Perhaps he doesn’t mind having extra chaos sown (since it makes his job easier), but doesn’t really care one way or the other (since Dalinar’s death would be enough) – but since it would be just as easy for Szeth to kill two as to kill one, why not just target both and be done with it?
Anyone have any thoughts on this?
AhoyMatey @11 – Oh, yeah. That’s what I was going to do today…
Back in TWoK, Elhokar had cut the saddle girth himself, but in this case, we’ll find out much later that Moash threw a rope down for Graves to climb up and cut the railing. I assume he also removed/cut down the rope afterwards.
ETA:
Nazrax @12 – That’s a good question. I’m going to go research the timeline a little and see what I can sort out…
Re Kaladin trusting Moash:
I agree with Wetlander that at this point in the story, Moash hasn’t done anything to lose that trust.
And in defense of Kal later, he was orginally going to send Moash away long enough to extricate him out of the plot to kill the king. He wanted to keep Moash out of trouble when he went to Dalinar and dealt with everything but before he could do any of that Elkohar threw him in jail unjustly. This totally fucked with Kaladin’s mind and directly afterwards he makes the rash choice of giving the Shards to Moash because at that point he doesn’t want to protect the king. All leading to strain on the bond with Syl. Giving Moash the Shards wasn’t a thought out plan it was gut decision that was made directly after bad shit went down. Not the best to be making big decision like who gets Shards.
Re Elhokar:
Back in WoK I thought that the things Elhokar saw were Cryptics based on the description that we’re given by Shallan and Elhokar. They are similar enough. And then later in WoR Elhokar talks about how things are a pattern which just made even more sure that he’s a budding Lightweaver.
I’ll be interested in seeing if he is a Lightweaver and how he uses the powers differently than Shallan given his background in poltics.
Well, Kaladin trusts Bridge 4 implicitly, and it’s not hard to tell why :) I mean, he sort of trusts Moash still while he’s getting beat up by him at the end of the book. He believes that what they went through as slaves should take precendence over anything because that’s how Kaladin would behave. I cannot realistically say what I would do in the same situation (i.e. if I would truyst Moash that much) because those kind of events are too far outside anything I ever experienced. I’d like to say that maybe I’d be more circumspect but then again, don’t I actually lose something (like a piece of my soul) if I’m so cynical and not able to trust the people who supported me the most and meant the world to me a few weeks / months ago?
My point is I could easily argue this both ways, and I believe that for Kaladin it makes perfect sense trusting Moash to that degree, and the same goes for Dalinar’s trust of Kaladin.
As far as the next book POV is concerned, Brandon posted on his blog the same thing AND the fact that the next two Mistborn universe novels are done. He’s awesome!!!
I think this also reinforces the fact that a “dead” person’s POV is likely and I love how the POVs are made to fit the story/action and not the other way around.
Wetlander @13 – Ah yes. Thanks!
Kaladin wasn’t the one who actually put Moash in charge of the king’s guard: it was Teft. In chapter 76, when Kaladin finds out what Teft’s done (i.e. leaving behind their “best man”), his reaction isn’t warm and fuzzy: “Their best man . . . Coldness. Moash. Moash had been left in charge of the king’s safety, and had a team of his own choosing. Storms.”
@10 and @14 – OK, that does make it sound a lot like they are Cryptics. So … lightweaver it is then? Soulcasting and illusions don’t seem like they’ll be all that helpful for a king. However Brandon has a much better imagination than I do* so he’ll probably have something good planned.
*Winner of the “Understatement of the Year” award – 2015.
@12 Nazrax, I think Graves is saying the truth, he’s a patriot. Not a patriot of Alethkar but of Taravangian and Kharbranth. If you remember the diagram did say that if Dalinar became a war lord instead of a peaceful king then he would be an ally than a threat, what better way to make Dalinar into a war lord than to assassinate his nephew. I think this is what Graves was giving command to achieve, also doesn’t mean that it is Taravangian’s total plan.
Nazrax @17 – not in that particular instance, no… but it was their whole job – to guard Elhokar, Dalinar, Navani, Adolin, and Renarin. It was stupid to give so much power (i.e. Shards) to someone who not only hated and was actively involved in attempting to murder the king, but who would continue to have regular and trusted access to him. Sure, Moash was the obvious choice – the best swordsman in the group, one of Kaladin’s highest officers – but Kaladin should never have given him the Shards without either extracting some kind of oath from him, or setting up something to ensure that he never had access to the king.
It’s all perfectly reasonable, or I’d be complaining about bad writing instead of stupid decisions. Kaladin didn’t know he would lose his bond; he didn’t know he’d fall into the chasms; he didn’t know he wouldn’t always be around to keep unfortunately situations from gettingout of hand. He assumed he could give Moash the Shards, and it would be okay because Kaladin would still be in charge and could keep Moash under control. It’s very human, and very stupid.
I agree with Kei_rin @14. Trusting Moash so far was justified. Kaladin has convinced himself the king has to die, for the good of the kingdom when he gives Moash the Shardblade – in retrospect it’s only astounding, that it took him soooo long to realize the problem with this and his oath to Dalinar. Syl certainly saw it immediately ;)
Wet @20 – by the time Kaladin gave the shards to Moash, he’d already decided that Moash was right (I had a whole paragraph written up on that myself, but @14 sniped me …)
At this point in the story, Kaladin’s mistrust of Dalinar is justified and proven correct. Dalinar does not believe Kaladin about Amaram. He does investigate the accusations, but decides Kaladin is wrong. Without talking to Kaladin about it, he then promotes Amaram to the head of the Radiants.
It is not until Kaladin saves him and his sons for the third time and Amaram refuses to try that Dalinar takes the accusations seriously and develops his plan to trap Amaram.
Dalinar on the other hand takes the illogical position of trusting Kaladin to be the bodyguard for himself and his family, but will not believe him about Amaram.
Regarding Elhokar and the apparent cryptic-like spren he sees, while I suspect the king is due to become a Knight Radiant, I am not convinced it is necessarily the Lightweavers.
@24
Which Knight Order do you think he’ll be a part of then?
From Jashna we know that Elsecallers are more inky in apperance.
Edgedancer are moss/crystal like.
I very much doubt that he’s a Bondsmith. Elhokar implies that he sees a lot of these spren and their are very few spren for Bondsmiths.
Sly is the only Honorspren looking for a bond and doesn’t look like what Elhokar describes seeing.
I also doubt that he’s a Skybreaker because I don’t think that Nan would alow him to live if he bonded a Skybreaker’s spren.
I very much doubt he’s a Dustbringer, though we don’t know what their spren look like either.
We don’t know what Truthwatcher or Stoneward spren look like.
If we discount Lightweaver; I would guess Truthwatcher for now just because we don’t what they look like. Elhokar isn’t hardheaded enough for Stonewards. While on first blush of what little know about Dustbringers, Elhokar being one of their number doesn’t seem to fit, Sanderson may make him one just to mess with our expectations.
Syl says she doesn’t like Cryptics, yet Pattern seems perfectly likable. It makes me wonder if there is more than one type/faction of Cryptics that is not totally trustworthy, less honorable. This group might be more interested in propagating lies and sowing discord and chaos–like Odium spren–rather than simply using slight-of-hand-as in lightweaving–or uncovering hidden truths within the lies Shallen tells herself. I’m not really sold on the idea of Odium Cryptics, but I still like the idea of more than one faction of Cryptics. Perhaps they are involved with the Truthwatchers? The name, Truthwatcher, kind of goes with what we know about Pattern. Could another type/faction of Cryptic impart different skills or gifts to the humans they bond with? Do we know what gifts the Truthwatchers possess? Lightweaving and something else?
Red Dwarf is cool
@26 I think the honorspren/Cryptic feud has to do with the fact that Cryptics are attracted to lies whereas honorspren dislike lying.
phonos @27 – Glad someone recognized it…
25. kei_rin
Very thorough. I would be interested to see what Truthwatch spren are like. Of course, we need to remember that the currently broken Elhokar may be much different from the unbroken KR Elhokar. I lean towards Lightweaver or Truthwatcher, though Willshaper is another that we don’t have many details on.
26. Marbelcal
Regarding Honorspren and Cryptics, I expect that much of the problem is just incompatible personalities. Some people just don’t mesh well with eachother. It isn’t that they are necessarily evil.
Okay, went to 17th shard. Renarin is a Truthwatcher (forgot). Their gifts are progression (healing, regrowth) and illumination, which in Renarin’s case, allowed him to see the future. Wonder if, with practice, he could learn to lightweave? Also, since we don’t know what Renarin’s spren (Glys) looks like, it remains possible that Glys is a type of Cryptic.
So, a couple of things.
First of all, I could be wrong about this, but I interpreted Graves a little bit differently. I think that he is a patriot, that he does care what happens to Alethkar. I thought he was hoping that getting rid of Elhokar will solve “the Dalinar problem” that the Diagram foresaw. It would put Dalinar as king and would possibly drive him back into modes which would play into the Diagram. I think Graves is playing his own game here, hoping that it will make Dalinar’s assassination unnecessary. I’m not saying that it’s well thought out on his part, but I do believe he is sincere.
Regarding Elhokar, I am a bit wary of the idea of him seeing Cryptics. In TWoK, I, too, assumed they were Cryptics. But now I’m not so sure. Is BWS going to have “lots” of KRs popping up fairly soon? I could see there being many of each order a bit in the future. But for now, we don’t have several candidates for each. The only possible exception is Ym, and I’m not sure about him yet, either.
There is, however, another possibility. Elhokar has become more and more unstable. That’s not what happened to the proto-KRs we’ve seen so far as their spren were “stalking” them. What if what’s happening to Elhokar is similar to what happened to Shallan, but more sinister? What if he’s being contacted by some form of voidspren? So far, they’ve shown that he isn’t making good decisions, that he’s going downhill, not uphill. I know that we’ve heard “on good authority” from Jasnah that the Voidbinders are the Parshmen/Listeners. But she’s not always right. Can humans be Voidbinders, too? Is there an Odium version of Cryptics, or can Cryptics be twisted?
Also, I didn’t post it in the last chapter, but I think it isn’t “plotless” at all! I think that speaking to Dalinar about Amaram is a huge step, and a huge building block for what’s going to come. Earlier, one of the re-read spirit guides (Carl, I think) was complaining about plot-lines which depend on the characters not talking to each other. Well, this is the explanation for how that works. Kaladin has two big secrets. He lets Dalinar in on one of them. If Dalinar had responded with trust, letting Kaladin in on his investigation, then Kaladin almost certainly would have revealed the whole “I’m a Knight Radiant” thing sooner as well. So Dalinar actually isn’t treating Kaladin with complete trust yet. And Kaladin doesn’t have a good reason to change his mind about lighteyes based on that interchange. So this drives the realism of the rest of the book, how Kaladin doesn’t reveal himself as a KR. And that, in turn, keeps Shallan from doing so. Surely if she’d shown up and seen one man doing tricks, she’d have piped up as well. I think that without this chapter, the tensions depicted in it, and that pivotal conversation between Kaladin and Dalinar, the believability of the whole plot weakens considerably. Just my two cents. Well, lots of cents. (Warning in case I post again, I’m not brief. I feel at home here. :)
Soulcasting and illusions don’t seem like they’ll be all that helpful for a king.
If he could win the highprinces’ loyalty the way Shallan converted the deserters, that would be very useful.
@32
So, I’m not the only one worried about Odium Cryptics. Another thought: could Odium Cryptics have been responsible for the rift between spren and their bonded human that led to the Recreance?
@34 I’m not saying that I think Elhokar’s mirror people are necessarily Odium Cryptics, but it definitely has me worried. Shallan’s experiences with Cryptics were scary, but didn’t make her a worse person. So, yes, I’m very worried by Elhokar’s pseudo-Cryptic stalkers.
As to your thought, I doubt that we’ll find out that Odium is in some way to blame for the Recreance. He’s already to blame for the Desolations (though we have some frightening evidence that the Heralds are involved more than we thought) and BWS never makes the Big Bad responsible for all evil. Most of the time, the majority of stuff is our fault.
I’d like to know what the community concensus is about multiple KRs from the same Order popping up soon. So far, we’ve seen one primary person that’s being brought into each order. Is that intentional? Are we not going to see, for instance, a whole bunch of Windrunners for a while yet?
The exception so far is Ym. I believe the majority view is that he had the surge of Regrowth, so he must have been either an Edgedancer or a Truthwatcher. I’m not completely sold on that, partially because we’ve seen another of each of those Orders.
This has a bearing on Elhokar, too. If there is only going to be one of each KR Order for now (with squires like Lopen, and I’m rooting for Shallan’s deserters!) then he must not be a Lightweaver.
@35: I try hard to stay away from statements like
Because that would imply that Brandon will only give us one representative from each order. And I’m with @18, Nick31 – Brandon has a much better imagination that I do. So I do not think he will limit himself.
There is always the risk that if you only have one person to represent a group (ethnic or KR), then that person’s flaws and highlights become the groups flaws and highlights.
I believe Brandon has talked about that risk before, but I cannot give you a cited source for this belief. Thus I would not be surprised if we do not have individuals to represent all the KR orders until the very end of the SA. Maybe some orders will not be filled until the second set of books. Just because we want there to be nice clean order and representation of each, does not mean that the author will grant that wish.
We already know having more than 3 Bondsmiths will not happen. But we could wind up with an odd mix of all the other orders.
So right now is a slow build and reveal of the KR’s. But with the rediscovery of their city, I see an growth spurt happening for the orders. And not just in Squires. There is the possibility that people will start coming forward to reveal themselves. Maybe they were remaining hidden because they thought they were insane, or paranoid, or running from Darkness. Because he is too good at tracking down early KR. I don’t know.
But to end this wall of text, I have confidence that Brandon has a plan. We just not might enjoy the journey 100%.
@36 Braid_Tug: “Brandon has a plan. We just not might enjoy the journey 100%.”
Journey before destination.
I agree that the representation from the different orders can’t be accounted for at this time. We know that there is only 1 Windrunner, because the Stormfather had forbidden them from bonding since the recreance, and Syl had defied him because she “knew” she had to find Kaladin. Though now, there may be more Windrunners developing.
But we don’t know about the others. Wyndle said something about the council of his type selecting Lift (because she had visited the Nightwatcher), but we know nothing about how any of the others decide who/when to bond someone now. It seems to vary by each order, so while the orders we know best (honorspren and cryptics) have only one (or maybe two?) members, some other order may have more for all we know. Consider also those who got visions from the Stormfather, who seem to have been the initial proto-Bondsmiths. Dalinar is the first to have completed the process and become a full Bondsmith, but it seems like his brother was beginning the process 6 years ago, before he was killed, and one of the quotes in WOK (the people Taravangian had killed) was from a man who reported similar visions before he was killed. That gives us 3 potential Bondsmiths (Gavilar, Dalinar, and the unkown man with the death quote), though only one is living now.
Mathematically speaking, if we are getting KR at random, then we should expect some repitition of orders, and not an orderly one-from-each-order first.
@38 we do know it is heavily implied there will be at least one member of each order. Both from each book being themed for an order and the bit about Ten facing the wall of red an black, shardeblades alight.
That being said I think theres an implication Shallash is going to join the Dustbringers, while Taln represents his own order.
Re: Kaladin trusting Moash… Let me (attempt to) clarify one thing, very quickly. I don’t necessarily think it’s unreasonable, in context of all these things ::waves hand at above comments::, that Kaladin trusted Moash with the Shards and the continued position of responsibility. I just think it’s stupid, like many of Kaladin’s decisions throughout the book. (Like many of my own decisions, for that matter, though mine rarely affect so many people.) All the things he decided to do are perfectly understandable as a normal human being. It’s just that from the larger perspective, which he of course
doesn’tcouldn’t have, they were stupid things to do. It’s like all the times people get frustrated with plots that depend on characters not communicating – it’s frustrating, but at the same time it’s perfectly natural, because real people don’t tell all the right people all the right things, for any number of reasons. Given the realistic nature of the scenario, I both applaud and headdesk over exactly the same things. Go figure.Re: Orders and members of Orders – I’m with Braid_Tug on this one. “I have confidence that Brandon has a plan. We just not might enjoy the journey 100%.” (I should note that I pretty much enjoy it all, even the frustration with stupid decisions made by key people, because I wouldn’t be so frustrated with them it if weren’t so totally realistic for them to do stupid things. It’s a sign of well-written characters, that I can both understand their actions, and be very irritated by them.) But again, Brandon has it sketched out, and I’m pretty happy to go along for the ride, whatever twists he decides to throw into the mix.
I do think Brandon is going to focus each book, to some extent, on one of the ten Orders, and each Order will get its book. Consider, though, that by the end of the second book, we have self-aware members of five Orders, glimpses of probable squires within at least one Order, and hints that there have been (and probably are now) others out there. Given that there’s supposed to be a 15-year gap (in-book time) between the first 5-book arc and the second, I don’t think our current five will remain alone for the next (in-book) couple of years.
I wouldn’t even say that Kaladin will remain the sole Windrunner for much longer; with the Stormfather having actually accepted a bond to Dalinar, is he really going to continue the prohibition on bonding? It might be more likely that he’ll give the go-ahead to whatever spren accept his authority, and we’ll see a surge of Windrunners, Stonewards, and Willshapers* in the next book. I also suspect we’ll see at least one Dustbringer in the near future, and I have a candidate in mind… Actually, I rather suspect – or maybe it’s just hope – that we’ll learn shortly that there are a small number of other Lightweavers, Truthwatchers, Edgedancers, and Dustbringers out there waiting to be found, preferably by Our Heroes instead of Nalan.
* I have a working theory, which I failed to even suggest to Brandon to get a reaction – how lame is that? My theory is that the bonding spren form a double spectrum between Honor and Cultivation, with the Bondsmiths and the Truthwatchers at the poles, being nearest the essence of the two Shards respectively. Stonewards and Windrunners would still be significantly closer to Honor than Cultivation, while Lightweavers and Edgedancers are likewise significantly closer to Cultivation than Honor. Willshapers & Skybreakers would be nearly balanced, with a slight leaning toward Honor, while Elsecallers and Dustbringers would lean toward Cultivation. I can even convince myself that the Surges reflect the same kind of connection, though I’d have a hard time explaining it to anyone.
If this is correct, and if the Stormfather should release his restrictions, I’d expect to see an upsurge in the Orders most under his influence, with the possible exception of Skybreakers. As noted above, I suspect/hope that the orders tied more closely to Cultivation are already growing.
Wetlandernw @40 said: “Given that there’s supposed to be a 15-year gap (in-book time) between the first 5-book arc and the second …”
I did not know that. Was this from WoB? If so, when did he make such a statement? I like that scenario better than a short period of in-world time between the two 5 book arcs (by short time I mean anything less than 1 year). It implies to me that the battle will be done, but not the war. I am going to guess that at the end of the first 5 book arc, the characters will know that they have finished the battle, but the war will continue.
I do not mean to imply that the 5th book will have one or more great battles. I am using the terms battle and war as more metaphors than anything else. Also, I do not mean to imply that the “heroes” (whoever you think they are) will win the “battle” that is the first arc of 5 books) and defeat the “villians” (whoever you think they are).
Further, I would not be surprised to learn that the “combatants” in the “battle” that comprises the first 5 book arc will not be the same “combatants” in the second 5 book arc.
Thanks for reading my musings,
AndrewB
(aka the musespren)
(edited for spelling; also added the word “not” in the last paragraph)
Andrew, the 15-year gap is one of the things I learned specifically at the signing the other night, though again, from the way he said it I expect it’s not new news to those who track these things carefully. He indicated (and I’ll get exact transcription done soon) that each arc would be in the range of a few years, maybe 2-4 years, “sort of a Wheel-of-Time timespan,” with a 15-year gap in between the two arcs.
That was WoB. The following is not.
Like you, I think the entire thing will be “the war” – most probably the duration of this particular Desolation. The first arc might be the rise of the Radiants and the early stages of the conflict, as the Voidbringers are revealed and alignments sorted out, with a fair amount of disaster mitigation going on. The gap could be a lot of “the war goes on” kind of stuff, and the second arc would then cover the resolutions they find, and either the ultimate defeat of Odium, a means of driving him away from the Rosharan system, or a revamped imprisonment.
That’s sheer speculation, of course, but it’s one very good reason to have a longish gap between the arcs. He doesn’t want or need to write all the details of what ought to be a long-running event, but it would be a bit cheesy to decide that a conflict of such magnitude, and starting from such a low preparedness value, could be resolved in just a couple of years. I think he prefers the cheese to be in the macaroni, not in the books.
Please tell that we’re talking 15 years book time and he actually doesn’t plan on taking a 15 year break in writting? I mean it sounds that way but I really just want to check.
Long time lurker here…. Nice talking.
@40: Who is the Dustbringer you think we will see soon? Upon reading Dalinar’s visions of them, I have grown intrigued by them. Are we really getting one book per order? Every time I fall upon a list of potential flashback characters, there never seen to be anyone fitting for a Dustbringer…
They have thus become my favorite order.
Try to write earlier, but it doesn’t look like it worked. Sorry if I made a double similar post.
@43 IIRC he said he intended to write a large chunk of Mistborn novels between the two arcs of Stormlight, but it sounded more like two or three years elsewhere in the Cosmere rather than 15.
From http://brandonsanderson.com/state-of-the-sanderson/
The latest State of Sanderson says that he is going to do the 2 Elantris full sequels and the modern era Mistborn trilogy after Stormlight 5. That means a gap of at least 7 years assuming a year to complete each book.
kei_rin @43 – The 15-year gap is book-time, not real-time. There will be a bit of a delay in real time after the first set, but NOT 15 years! IIRC, he’s said in the past that when he finishes the first arc, he’ll take a break and put out the second Mistborn trilogy, then return to Roshar – that would mean probably about 4-6 real years between book 5 and book 6, by my best guess. But the first five will complete a story arc, so it’s not like we’ll be left hanging so much.
Gepeto @44 – I don’t think we need to worry about the flashback sequence characters when we’re considering who the Radiants will be. Partly that’s because IMO, we’ll have more than one from each Order before we’re done, and partly because if Taln really is Taln, he’s a Herald, not a Radiant. In any case, to answer your question, I personally think that Adolin will become either a Dustbringer or a Willshaper.
Also, to IAmTheBeard and Gepeto – thanks for jumping in! Pull up a chair in the Storm Cellar and make yourselves comfy. :)
Twenty @46 – It’s hard to say how close together those will fall; I’d forgotten that he said he needs to do the Elantris sequels before the second Mistborn trilogy. So… yeah. Maybe as much as 7 years.
@47: Oh thanks for your answer. It makes sense. I was trying to put the predicted flashback character within orders, but I always feel short when it came to Dustbringer. No one mentioned really seem to fit… Adolin is a nice pick: he was mine as well, but since he does not get a book, I figured he was not in the top 10 and would thus not be a Radiant.
It is true about Taln… I had since then come to the conclusion he may not be Taln but a Taln-like character fitting within the Stonewards… Complicated.
I have always thought the top 10 were the 10 flashback characters which would be the 10 main Radiants. Glad to know it may not the case.
Quite a long strech of thinking here. Sorry.
Wetlandernw FTW–
Frustrating plot lines: Yes, natural and realistic, but I expect we all have a saturation point. Perrin bumped into mine, for instance.
15-year gap between arcs: Hadn’t penetrated if I knew it. Arc 2: Shallan <3 Adolin = pre- or teenage kids of their own. Not ready for that.
Braid_Tug & MDNY–
Journey before Destination. Heh.
Great thoughts upthread, I don’t have anything to add, except that epigraph is wicked. But we’re going to discuss those later, so I’ll just wait patiently. //it’s not working//
Ways – yeah, that epigraph smacked me right upside the head. I wanted to talk about it… but I couldn’t honestly figure out what to say about it! I can’t help wondering if “nightform” is related to “nightspren” but that’s about all I can get hold of.
Picking up what Adam Canning said last week:
Is there any chance that this is what is up with Elhokar and his mirror friends?
@36 Braid_Tug
Don’t get me wrong. I know Brandon has a (the) plan and I’m excited to see it! I don’t dislike it at all, in fact. However, I do think he gives us clues so we can figure out what he’s doing.
As to your quote of my statement, you misunderstand me. That statement was predicated on a theory that we’ve only seen one KR, or proto-KR, per Order so far.
The idea is this. I feel that Brandon is hinting that the KRs we’ve had so far are an experiment, or at least a tentative effort. We know that Syl went against “Father’s” will, believing it would work anyway. We know that Wyndle was sent by a council and that they chose Lift as a good first candidate. The Cryptics sent Pattern, a scholar, to gather as much info as possible before his presumed death.
I think that it’s possible, and maybe is being hinted by Brandon, that we only have one of each order for now because this is still an experiment. I think this is supported by negative feedback as well. Darkness doesn’t name Ym’s Order like he does with Lift’s. This could be because he just doesn’t happen to see him healing the child, but it could also be intentional on Brandon’s part. The truth is that Ym doesn’t really quite fit into Edgedancer, and that we just don’t know enough about Truthwatchers to know. It just feels a bit like misdirection on Brandon’s part.
Even more so regarding Elhokar. He’s seeing twisty folks in the mirrors and his experiences match those of Shallan so perfectly that Lightweaver seems obvious. Except that feels more like misdirection to me. Most significantly, Elhokar is being made more paranoid and dangerous, made into a worse king, by his experiences with these spren. That’s directly the opposite of Shallan’s experience. I feel like Brandon is foreshadowing something darker here. Remember that we’ve been told there are more systems of magic on Roshar than what we’ve seen. It’s possible that Elhokar isn’t even a proto-KR, but rather a proto-something darker.
Anyway, I just want to point out the possibility. If Brandon is hinting that we only have one KR per order right now (something that I agree might be about to change because of the Stormfather’s change of heart), then it makes it more likely that we have guessed wrongly about Ym and that something darker is going on with Elhokar.
Just to clarify, I’m not really trying to figure out Brandon’s Plan. This theory could be right or it could be wrong. I’m just trying to interpret the clues. Ym is a Truthwatcher and Elhokar is another Lightweaver just seemstoo easy for me, and counter some of the foreshadowing we’ve gotten.
Origininally I thought teh Spren following Elhokar were Cryptics.
However Syl mentioned chasing off what appear to have been Voidspren of some form (Red Eyes etc) after Kaladin starts guarding Ehlokar.
And Ehlokar mentions Kaladin’s presence having driven away the Spren that were watching him from mirrors.
Plus they keep getting refered to as Twisted and Pattern suggest that along with the red eyes that is a characteristic of Voidspren.
So Ehlokar may have been on the road to becoming a Voidbinder.
One Interesting WoB on a similar subject
And for the only one of each Order dscussion, One of the signings got the tidtbit
Though the second may be Hoid.
@53 Adam Canning
We actually do know that Hoid is a Lightweaver, because that’s the name of the magic (at least one of the magic systems) used on Yolen. But he’s not a member of the KR Order of Lightweavers. I think this is Brandon being clever..
I agree with a lot of your clues regarding Elhokar. Also, wasn’t Pattern in the room with Elhokar once? When she attended the meeting of the Highprinces and convinced Sebarial to take her in? Was Pattern explicitly there? I feel like he would have known if there was another Cryptic bondee/potential bondee there.
@52: About Elhokar… I have always had the same feeling about him. He never struck me as a proto-Radiant. Each one we have met has been bettering themselves upon meeting their sprens (or shortly before). Elhokar is not bettering himself, he is getting worst. He is losing himself into his paranoia and his attempt to open-up to Kaladin feel short. He did not come out of it wanting to improve himself, but keeping wanting to blame everyone else for his mistakes.
My other opposition about Elhokar is the fact he not only makes mistakes, which are understandable, but he never tries to correct them. Once he realizes he made a bad call, he never retract himself or try to make amends: he just blames whoever counseled him badly.
These do not strike me as Radiant-like qualities, but I could be wrong about it.
I do not know what he is seeing, but I have always though they were up to no-good. Elhokar is a king afterall. It is not so far-fetched to think sprens or Odium may be interested in him for purposes other then the Nahel bound.
My gut feeling was Elhokar’s desire to be a great person and a strong king will be used against him. He will go for power, no matter what it is and it will cause hundred of issues, especially with Dalinar who has always been too lenient with him.
So I guess we will have to wait and see if my guts are right or not.
@52 –> 55
I also believe that Elhokar and Ym seem out of sync somehow, so your speculation is an attractive explanation as to why.
Also, this Q&A has always intrigued me:
The question could have been phrased better, but I believe the answer is still relevant. “They did something similar” means it was different in some way. How?
The italicized line (by me) in the Chapter 44 epigraph (yeah, I know, we’ll get to those later)…
…has always implied to me that all 3 pre-Recreance Bondsmiths were bonded to the same superspren. We know Dalinar is bonded to Stormfather, so what was different before the Recreance? Assuming the ancient Bondsmiths were bonded to a different superspren just doesn’t feel right. Is this misdirection–intentional or unintentional–by Brandon?
I feel like the answer should be jumping out at us, by I got nothin’.
@56 Ways
Whoa…
I was just thinking about that WoB earlier today and I interpreted it this way: We’ve received confirmation that the Stormfather is the Cognitive Shadow of Honor. Since he presumably existed before Honor’s death and splintering (since he said he saw Honor die), he was different then, not a Cognitive Shadow. I assumed that’s what is different about Dalinar and the old Bondsmiths. The old ones obviously weren’t bonded to a Cognitive Shadow.
But you’re right. There does appear to be something more.
I have thought in the past about there being 3 Bondsmiths and 3 Shards on/near Roshar. The thought of there being one Bondsmith bonded to each of Honor, Cultivation, and Odium doesn’t really make a lot of sense, though. Perhaps they were bonded to their primary representative spren, though? Stormfather, Nightwatcher, and one of the Unmade? It doesn’t seem particularly likely, but maybe?
Then I had another idea… We also recently got confirmation that multiple people can be bonded to the same Shardblade. It might not be normal, or even normaly possible, but it is possible. So can multiple people be bonded to the same invididual spren? Were all three of the Bondsmiths bonded to the Stormfather?
IAmTheBeard @57 – I’m not sure what I read, or when, to give me this impression, but I have the firm idea that all three Bondsmiths were bonded to the Stormfather. I’ll scrounge around a bit and see if I can find what convinced me of that.
IAmTheBeard @57
Processing…Stormfather is the Cognitive Shadow of Honor (or really Tanavast?). Suppose I’d heard that, but the implications didn’t penetrate until now. Yes, Stormfather definitely existed before Tanavast’s death and the splintering of Honor. We were discussing that very issue in some long-forgotten thread (see below) and I’m pretty sure I posted a reference.
So…if Stromfather was different back then, just what was he
before becoming a shadow? But you are right that this could be the difference BWS alludes to in the Q&A. Or not. ;-)
Wetlandernw @58
I think it was Ross who asked the question of Peter at JCon 6. IIRC, the bottom line was that whoever answered (it) hedged. We were discussing this same topic a while back in some thread or other. Maybe just a couple chapters into the WoR reread. It would be nifty if you found absolute confirmation.
Even in view of the lack of confirmation from Team Sanderson, the Chapter 44 epigraph is tantalizingly suggestive.
I haven’t read all the posts, theirs alot. Reading peeps views on Elhokar, and his seeing things in the mirrors ect. One thing no one has mentioned is , when did Elhokar ever have a period in his life that hit rock bottom. I suggest that perhaps it hasn’t happened yet. Dalinar may have to send him home to look after his home land and city that his wife caused to riot (indirectly) and this I think will be his hitting rock bottom. Then again its not my story… just a thought .
I didn’t say what I meant sorry. this portion ( Dalinar may have to send him home to look after his home land and city that his wife caused to riot (indirectly) and this I think will be his hitting rock bottom.)
Elhokar hitting rock bottom, I believe he is on his way there, and I think if Dalinar were to send him home to look after his country that he’ll start figuiring things out.Start rebuilding, finding safty for people, food, save his people (Alenthi) in general. Where as Dalinar will be trying to save as much of Roshar as he can.
Some one mentions the Diagram and why Tavangain wanted Dalinar out of play. I thought he wanted Dalinar out of play because he felt Dalinar was to close to getting peace agreement with the Parshendi, and later when he sends Seth back the second time I thought it was because he felt Dalinar may have united all the Prince’s in the war against the Parshendi. (or the other way around)
I was hoping The Lopen would help Elokar sort things out, but now, I’m not so sure.
Here is some more evidence of Radiant abilities beyond the Surges (sorry if this is a little belated):
The considerable abilities of the Skybreakers for making such (judgments???) amounted to an almost divine skill, for which no specific Surge or spren grants capacity, but however the order came to such an aptitude, the fact of it was real and acknowledged even by their rivals.
Words of Radiance (in book) chapter 28, page 3
Found in the epigraph of chapter 55
Okay, so here’s the transcript of the questions I personally was able to ask Brandon on Tuesday. FWIW, I had a splitting headache all day, so I really didn’t have a chance to prioritize or combine questions. If anyone wants a list of other questions I didn’t have time to ask, let me know! I still have a good dozen or so that I’d love to have asked…
Of special interest to this discussion are the points that
1) Shallan’s Memories are an artifact of her bond, not the cause of it.
2) The question about what Shallan actually did to Bluth and the deserters did not get a direct answer; just that we have seen someone else do this before. As a follow-on, another friend asked him on Wednesday if there was any similarity between what Shai does in The Emperor’s Soul and what Shallan did with the deserters. His answer (paraphrased) was that Shai is not the one he was talking about, though there is some similarity, sort of. He said it was someone that will really surprise us. There may be a bit more to the answer; she wasn’t sure she got all of it, but someone from 17th Shard was recording, so we may get a touch more on that later. So… if you have any bright ideas you want to ask him about, please share!! Brandon is on a cruise with his family right now, but when he gets back there will be lots more signings.
Now I’ll go listen through the rest of the evening’s recordings to see what’s worth transcribing. :)
@64 So if Shallan’s memories are an artifact of the bound, are Kaladin’s prowness with the spear the same? I believe it has been stated he picked on it rather easily, angering his teacher as he did not required teaching so to speak.
When refering to this specific scene, in WoK, Kaladin states the following:
“You were not shocked when a skyeel took flight
for the first time. You should not be shocked when you hand Kaladin Stormblessed a spear and he knows how to use it.”
I have always thought it presumptuous of Kaladin… Now it has me wondering… If Shallan’s memories are not her own, but a by-product of her bound, then Kaladin must get something out of his. Could it be his fighting abilities?
About all Bondsmiths being bonded to the Stormfather, the closest we could get at JCon 6 was to have Brandon agree that, if a spren were powerful enough, it could form Radiant bonds with more than one person.
Regarding what Shallan was doing to the deserters, my interest is very piqued. I admit that I have assumed it was like what Kaladin did with Bridge 4, which is essentially drawing people to the KR ideals to ultimately form Squires. So could it be Kaladin?
Somehow I don’t feel like that’s surprising enough to fit his description…
I’ll be doing some heavy thinking about this one. Maybe someone could ask him about whether it is a SA character?
Anyway, who are some good guesses?
Well, my best guess was Shai, but that was wrong. Now I have to go back through all the characters in all the books, unless someone can get him to narrow it down by series. I wasn’t thinking on my feet well enough to follow up on that aspect.
@65 Gepeto
I’ve been thinking the same thing. It seems that each order gets some abilities that are variable from person to person (there are many things in the in-world WoR quotes supporting this), and since the Windrunners from all appearances are usually on the front lines of battle, it makes sense to me that their “special” traits would be related to fighting, but vary from person to person. Kal’s just happened to be the spear. Shallan’s just happened to be her snapshot ability.
Another failure to think on my feet – I should have asked what the Windrunner quirk is, or whether Kaladin gained either his head for heights and/or his spear skills from the bond.
End of Words of Radience. He’s drinking himself into a stupor because his own guards think he’s crap. Dalinar’s left him behind. Kaladin has told him to get lost and his wife has triggered an uprising in the capital.
Wetlandernw @64 — thanks for asking my questions. I was surprised that you had time to ask them all. Some interesting answers. Equally important, I got a RAFO. Yeah me.
FWIIW, I had originally wanted to know the time between the beginning (assination of Gavilar) of WoK and the end of WoK; not the end of the 1st 5 book arc. I honestly expected a RAFO to the twist you added to that question. Your twist to the question was more interesting than my original question.
I had thought it was Hoid who did something similar to what Shallan did to Bluth and the desserters. (When Wit prompted Kaladin to “tell” the story of the dude who raced the wind.) However, Wit as the answer would not surprise.
Two looney theories would be Tien (when Tien would temporarily bring Kaladin out of his depressive funks) or Helaran (he somehow changes Shallan’s opinion of him). Out of these two looney theories, I prefer the Helaran theory. IIRC, we have thought from Shallan where she considers Helaran the finest person Shallan knew. What if Helaran was not as fine a person as Shallan maade him out to be. Helaran could have used “Lightweaving” to change Shallan’s opinion of him.
I am not 100% advocating Helaran as the other person who “Bluthed” somebody. But if you want a looney theory, with a surprise candidate, why not Helaran.
Thanks for reading my musings,
AndrewB
(aka the musespren)
Andrew, I totally misread your question! I’m sorry. But I’m still glad I asked what I did, because if I knew about the 15-year gap I’d forgotten.
FWIW, though, Brandon and Peter are keeping a pretty strict timeline for themselves. They aren’t publishing it, but they do have it, and Peter is pretty hard on Brandon to make sure he doesn’t mess it up. :) From a review of the flashback dating and other internal and external evidence, the timeline for The Way of Kings should be something like this:
1167.10.1.1 Gavilar’s assassination (approx., according to WoB)
1172.10.1.1 Kaladin = slave ( approx., ch. 1, “five years later”)
1173.8.1.1 Kaladin = bridgeman (approx., ch. 2, “eight months later”)
1173.9.6.5 The Highstorm in Ch. 75 (WoB)
This is consistent with Ch. 47 & 51, “one year ago,” if you assume that in a 500-day year, no one minds being off by fifteen days or so when they say “a year ago.” And of course, the date when Kaladin became a slave is also approximate. “Five years later” might really more like “Four years and eight months” or something, so the date of his bridgemanship might be somewhat earlier than the date I listed here.
That would make the entire time lapse about 6 years, with roughly 2 months (maybe more like 3) worth of “real-time action” from Chapter 2 through Chapter 75. Also, the highstorm in TWoK Ch. 75 is the same one as that in WoR Ch. 1, per Brandon’s timeline.
@64 I’ve been transcribing that audio and that’s pretty much the jist of the answer about Shai. The only thing I could add is that Brandon said “No one is going to expect it” in regards to the answer.
@72 That is a great point about Tien, I know there have been theories that he was a latent Lightweaver but I had never put much stock into it… I may have to reconsider that.
We do have WoB that Kaladin has known two Lightweavers (refering to the order and not just the ability to lightweave, since he’s met at least three with that ability).
WeiryWriter @74 – Thanks! That actually clarifies something I forgot to ask Nikki: was it something that I in particular wouldn’t expect, or no one is going to expect? I sort of assumed the latter, but it’s good to know for sure. If nothing else, it rules out all the unpublished works, because he’s clearly thinking of things we’ve all been able to read. Hmmm. And if it’s someone none of us are likely to expect, there’s a good chance it’s not any of the overt magic-users.
So now I really like the suggestion of Tien. I wouldn’t have thought of him myself, but… yeah, those theories come back to haunt my thoughts. But wow. If it’s not him, there are a lot of folks to choose from. Someone needs to ask if it’s a Stormlight character, or from a different series.
Wetlander – thanks for asking questions for us! I didn’t expect anything from my Nakomi question, but I admit I had just the tiniest sliver (Sliver?) of hope that phrasing it in Cosmere terms would get something. At least it got a laugh!
As I’ve said several times, I don’t really like the idea that Shallan was magically changing the deserters – but Brandon’s phrasing here, while not ironclad, certainly supports the idea that something supernatural is going on.
That said, when you make me think about characters we’ve seen who’ve had this effect before, I immediately think of Kelsier. Not just his influence on Vin, but on the whole crew – changing them from thieves into defenders of the people, leaders who would fight off the end of the world. (And no, of course they weren’t criminals in the same way as the deserters – though in both cases you’re dealing with reactions to tyranny – but Kelsier’s crew were all good men to begin with. And in any case, to say that Kelsier was inspirational and transformational wouldn’t surprise us, and therefore doesn’t fit. It’s just what it made me think of. I miss Kelsier!)
Re: the Bondsmiths, a couple of things.
1. We don’t *know* that there will be 3 and only 3 Bondsmiths. What the epigraph you guys have referenced for us *actually* tells us is that *at a certain point in time* there were only 3 Bondsmiths, and that this wasn’t unusual for them, because there spren was (note the phrasing *was*, not *were*, implying that they had just one spren they shared, not one spren apiece) ‘specific’. But that doesn’t mean there couldn’t be four or five, for instance…just that there won’t be fifty.
2. Re: all the ancient Bondsmiths being bonded to the Stormfather, that’s always been my working assumption. But I noticed this yesterday, from WoR chapter 89, where Dalinar is bonding the Stormfather and swearing the first oath. The Stormfather says this:
“I WILL NOT LET MYSELF BE BOUND IN SUCH A WAY AS TO KILL ME!”
i.e., he won’t form a Nahel bond which would lead to him becoming mindless if his KR breaks his Oaths. Which…apparently, that *didn’t* happen to him during the Recreance. So, a. Why not? Was he not bound? and b. Why is he able to manifest in our world, with intellect, without a bond? Is it ‘just’ because he’s a Superspren, or is it more specifically because of being a Sliver of Honor, and Honor’s cognitive shadow?
First off, a big thanks to Wetlander for asking questions and reporting back – it’s always good to hear more from the man himself.
Trying to jump into the discussion without saying something that’s already been said before:
Chris @@@@@ 77 – Completely agree on your 1st point. On the 2nd: my understanding (and it’s possible I’m making assumptions here) is that the Stormfather *was* bound, and the breaking of the that bond caused the mental instability we’ve seen in him thus far (e.g. especially sending the “cleansing” highstorm when the everstorm hit).
My personal theory on this one is that while he was bound, he wasn’t bound to capacity. Since we have WoB that a sufficiently powerful spren can bind with more than one person, it stands to reason that as a spren increases in power level, there will be a corresponding increase in the maximum number of potential bonds. My thinking is that all of those potential bonds were realized, and then broken at the same time, it would have been enough to kill him, and that he escaped this fate due to not being bonded to the maximum number of people at the time of the Recreance. Parts of this theory were developed on the fly, so please feel free to poke holes as you see fit.
Chaplainchris1@77. Could the old bond smiths have been bonded to a different super spren that is now out there somewhere mindless?
@Wetlandernw Wow, those were some useful questions and you got a lot of them in. Good work!
@76
I’m definitely not convinced that Shallan used some sort of magic on the deserters, but there is definitely something cosmere/realmatics related going on. I am especially wondering if it really has anything to do with Lightweaving. The way he answers the question is quite ambiguous but I lean towards not. Tien is a happy favorite, I have to agree. I’d ask him if the surprise person is A) from Roshar and B) a Lightweaver, or even a Surgebinder.
There is nothing that I have seen in the Stormlight books to date or in Brandon interviews that leads me to believe that his Transformation surge can turn a person into a robot. A person may be changed to an ‘elemental’ thing like fire, smoke, or crystal – e.g., Jasnah’s feat, but not a more subtle but insidious change such as in personality or behavior. What Shallan did to the deserters was to fashion an image of herself as a queenly figure instead of the reality of a barefoot bedraggled girl. Having such a commanding aura lent her words credibility. She promised that they would be forgiven for their prior misdeeds, and they believed her. Their transformation was due to her charisma, rather than anything magical. Proof that their free will was unchanged comes from their leader Vatah, who remained unconvinced by Shallan’s argument but joined his crew anyway lest he lose his standing with them. If Shallan’s photographic memory is a gift of her spren association rather than an inherent mental ability, then Kaladin’s love of heights and skill with a staff or spear may also reflect such an association. In his combat with Szeth near the end of WOR, he exclaims that he, not Szeth, is the master of the winds and sky and has been so since childhood. It is also possible that he has unintentionally absorbed small amounts of stormlight since childhood, and that the absence of highstorms during the weeping period is what led to his depression during such times, i.e., a withdrawal symptom. The actions by Tien with those rocks which cured Kaladin of such depression may, indeed, be a form of Lightweaving – as some have now suggested.
Tien is definately an interesting possibility. Another one would be Raoden. He had a similar effect on the people of Elantris.
Here’s the first hour of the signing table conversation, heavily edited for relevancy & interest. Anything that’s not a word-for-word transcription is so noted. I also left out a couple conversations where he specifically prefaced his answer with, “Don’t tweet this;” those mostly had to do with movies, games, and multi-media bundling plans. This is being posted in a couple of different places, so bear with the things you find irrelevant, please. There are a couple more hours to sift through, and I’ll post them as I get them finished – probably two more sections.
BWS: The gamma-read for Shadows of Self is coming up in the spring.
Fan: I loved the ending of Words of Radiance. When you come up with an idea for a new cosmere book, do you have to go oh, now I have to figure out how this fits in with everything else, or do you have it premade?
BWS: I have a few little holes that I can slot things into, and I try to get them to fit the roles, like I know there are certain things that need to happen, and if it doesn’t fit the role, I just go ahead and make it a minor planet, like Shadows for Silence, where I can write a story, but I can’t put as much magic into those books. So I’ve got a few restrictions on me, but I think that’s important for maintaining the continuity.
Fan: Do you have any, or will you ever write a gay character into any of your books?
BWS: There are several. Drehy, in the Stormlight Archive, the bridgeman is gay, because he’s based off a good friend of mine who’s gay. Ranette in the Wax & Wayne books, the woman that Wayne’s in love with, she’s gay, and it’s hinted at in the first book. By the second book, they’re like “Dude, she’s gay, just leave her alone.” So yes, I have written gay characters. I’ve never written a gay main viewpoint character, maybe someday I will, it’s not something I’ve done yet.
(Wetlander insert: At this point I asked about Jasnah, and I’ll summarize our conversation; Brandon specifically asked me not to transcribe it directly. He’d momentarily forgotten that he had actually written Jasnah viewpoints, so his “I’ve never written a gay main viewpoint character” comment wasn’t intended to quell the speculation about her either way. He clearly didn’t intend to say that she’s not gay, but he didn’t want to rephrase in such a way as to say that she is, either; at this point, he really doesn’t want to give a WoB about her either way. He’ll deal with that if/as it becomes relevant to the story – and he refused to give any indication whether that was if or as. We are to continue our speculation if we’re interested in the question.)
Shardlet: If Vin and Elend hypothetically each blindly ingested equivalently sized beads of lerasium, would Vin be a stronger Mistborn than Elend, or would they be equal?
BWS: Yes, Vin would be stronger. It is additive, not just an overwrite.
The same thing happens with Hemalurgy; with Hemalurgy when you’re spiking someone’s soul, you’re ripping off a piece and adding it.
Fan: First of all, how confident are you in your race with Rothfuss for use of the word Stone in your title?
BWS: You know, it’s looking more and more like this might not even be Szeth’s book. And if it’s not Szeth’s book, I may not even name it Stones Unhallowed; I might name it something else relating to another character, but then again, Kaladin’s book was named after the book Dalinar was reading, so anyway. We’ll see. I’m pretty sure I will… He has said his “isn’t coming out next year,” as in coming out this year, and so… I’ll have mine done by the end of this year, and it will be coming out next year, so it’ll just depend.
Fan: Second question, if completely hypothetically, and forbid! – somebody had to do for you what you did for Robert Jordan, who would your choice be?
BWS: I would probably either pick Brent Weeks, who has a very similar style to me, or Brian McClellan, who is one of my students who is now publishing books, and writing very good books. Those guys, either one, I think would do a fine job.
Fan: I read McClellan’s book on your recommendation. Can you let him know that he needs to put women in his books?
BWS: Yeah, that’s what I actually told him. My number one criticism when he called me and said, “What do you think of my book?” I said, “You only put one woman in your book, and she’s a cliché. She’s the friendly cliché, (something incomprehensible). The first thing that happens is you get the clichéd damsel in distress, then when people realize “Oh, that’s being sexist,” they then make the girl awesome, but have no personality. That’s like step two. Then step three is real characters, and so I did let him know, and he promised he would do better with future books. I think it is the most legitimate criticism of that book, is that he’s just bad with women. But you know, my first book I was terrible; I just didn’t publish that one. He’s unfortunate that he published it. But even in Mistborn, I only had Vin, so we all fall into this trap, and I’ve read many women who only put one guy in the book, and he’s perfect. It’s just something that new authors have a problem with very naturally, so hopefully he’ll catch on the same way I caught on.
Fan: I was wondering if you were thinking along the lines of a movie of Alcatraz?
BWS: We tried really hard. We actually even got storyboards and things with Dreamworks Animation, which was going to be awesome, but then they eventually let it die. So if you buy the big art Dreamworks Animation book, there’s actually Alcatraz concept art on one of the pages, which is kind of excruciating that it never happened.
Fan: Why couldn’t Joel be a Rithmatist? He wanted it so bad.
BWS: I will explain as the series progresses. That is a plot point. Every book like that, they get the power in the end, and I thought it was a much more interesting story if he has half – the knowledge – and Melody has half – the talent – and together they create a whole. It just worked, and it was much better for me as a story. I knew going into it that he wasn’t going to be able to by the end of the book, but the reasons for it you’ll find out as the series progresses.
(Wetlander note: This question didn’t pick up well on my recorder, but it was something about why he has so many series going on at once instead of finishing one of them.)
BWS: A couple of reasons. The main one is that it’s the way I stay fresh as a writer, I find that I get burned out on things. Another main one is that I feel if I’m not practicing different styles, I’ll get into a rut, and my writing will repeat itself. It’s kind of like a philosophical reason and an instinctual one. I tell people who are annoyed that I’m not writing Stormlight that you wouldn’t get Stormlight any faster if I weren’t writing these other books in between – you might get it more slowly, because it’s working on other things that really rejuvenates me as a writer. So I would be writing at a Rothfuss speed if I weren’t jumping between things.
Fan: So do you ever put a page length limit on yourself?
BWS: I don’t, but I know by gut generally after I start writing how long a book feels.
Fan: Does the publisher ever put any limits on you?
BWS: No, they actually haven’t. They do ask me if I’ll write them shorter, but it’s always an ask, and I usually ignore them. In fact, Words of Radiance is the largest book they can physically print with their printer, but the font is not the smallest font they could do yet. So I could actually get about another 100,000 words longer before it gets unreadable.
(Cue the jokes about selling books packaged with a magnifier…)
Fan: So by the time we get to Stormlight 6 or 7, they’ll have to go buy a new printer?
BWS: Yeah, I’ve warned them. I will write it at the length that feels right.
Fan: Any more RPGs in the works? (the pen and paper kind)
BWS: I know that Crafty is planning another supplement to go in line with the new (Mistborn Adventures) books I’m releasing, because there are various things that are important to the new books that would make another good supplement.
Wetlander summary: This is one where the exact transcription is impossible because everyone is talking over and around one another. Basically a couple of fans were talking with Brandon about making Legion into a TV series; one person thought that in the pilot, the aspects need to be actors, while the other thought that (for the pilot only) they should not be seen, so Stephen looks like a wacky eccentric talking to himself about solving mysteries, and then the episodes would reveal the individuality of the aspects. Brandon agreed that the second approach would be very clever, but that it would be very hard to convince (someone – not sure if it was himself, or the aspects, or who!) to do that, because he has them all cast in his head. But then there was this fun bit:
BWS: Normally I don’t cast actors in the roles in my books, they’re just who they are, but each of the aspects is an actor to me. If you look really closely, you might be able to guess who they are, because they’re all famous actors.
We sold it to Lionsgate, and they never made it, and the option lapsed. We’ve sold it to somebody else now, but we’ll see if it ever gets made.
Fan: One thing when I was reading the Alloy of Law, in Mistborn, all the Ferumancers (??) were the Mistborn version of Ferumancy, and then it changed to the Misting version of Ferumancy. Is there…?
BWS: Yeah, there’s a reason for that, and I’ll delve into it a bunch more later, but basically, there’s two things going on. Number one, the bloodlines have thinned, and that’s the reason they’re talking about (here?). Also, full-blooded Feruchemists mixing, like the populations mixed, is really dangerous, and Sazed knew this. So, I’ll just leave it at that.
You’re awesome, wetlander! These are really interesting!
Does anyone know where these transcripts are centrally collected? I haven’t been able to find an up-to-date source. It takes a lot of diving through forums and stuff to find them posted here and there. I assume there is something like the Brandonothology, but current, out there that I just don’t know about.
Wetlandernw @75
It’s on my list (Tien/SA character/other), along with other questions and revisions that I’m picking up here.
IAmTheBeard @84 – There are a lot of them on 17th Shard, but not necessarily in one place. You can find quite a bit by going to the “Events, Signings, and Stalkings” forum and clicking on the various events, but even then you have to scroll down through to find the actual transcripts. Someone did a compilation of everything they could find on the Words of Radiance tour, but that’s one of the few.
Some of the gurus there have been working to get them all loaded into the theoryland interview database, but it’s a lot of work, and I’m pretty sure they aren’t current. The thing is, it’s all fan effort, and it’s just too much for anyone to keep up with. I guess this is the downside of Brandon’s prolific output; when he comes out with 2-4 books a year, and follows them up with tours that include a dozen or more stops, there’s just a LOT of information to track.
They try hard to get everything linked in to the Coppermind wiki, but that’s even more work, because they need citation links back to the transcripts. It’s a big Cosmere!
@84 and @85
Exactly what she said. I actually just gave up and started a compilation on my laptop because they’re so dang irritating to find. Either the search on Theoryland royally sucks, or I royally suck at using it (and it’s not completely current, and there’s a lot of extraneous info), and trying to find the right WoB on 17th shard is like trying to get to the right plateau on the shattered plains without a bridge or surgebinding. The wiki and I are also not friends…..but those are your three best bets, just prepare for some frustration in trying to find something quickly on a particular topic, unless you’ve previously run across it and bookmarked it yourself. Also confusing the issue is there are multiples of some of them and some are paraphrased and some are verbatim.
@83 This is great, thank you for your hard work! I am amazed and I am overly thrilled to find out next book may not be Szeth. In fact, if I may so bold to say it, the way it was phrased leads me to believe it most likely will not. Feel free to correct me if you think I am putting too much faith into this.
I have been trying to figure out how Szeth story would fit within all that is currently happening without taking the focus away from important events… and I couldn’t. Oh well, there was a lot of fan wishfull thinking into my processing as there are events I wish Brandon would spend the large part of next book on and Szeth was not one of those.
I am therefore thrilled. Were you able to figure out which character may be getting the next book instead of Szeth? Anything Brandon may have give out inadvertaly? I have always been thinking Dalinar would be awesome, but again this is wishfull thinking.
Is he still planning a book on Szeth? I know he has fans, but he is not amongst my personal favorites, so I would not mind at all if he changed his mind on this.
88. Gepeto
I think the next three book are still going to be Szeth, Dalinar and Eshonai. We are just getting a different order than we were anticipating.
I didn’t have much sympathy for Shallan until I read her book. I certainly don’t have much for Szeth yet, but I am going to reserve judgement until I see his full story. That is my same opinion on Elhokar. It is hard to see a persons life from the outside.
87. Shlee
Glad to know it isn’t just me having trouble with that.
Re: next flashback sequence – There’s another part in the section I haven’t yet transcribed where he talked about this some more. I’ll give you the word-for-word when I get there, but the gist of it was that he really hasn’t decided. He’s going to outline the three remaining first-arc flashback sequences (Szeth, Dalinar, Eshonai, IIRC) and see which one seems to line up best with the outline of the book. I think he said he’s already got the main novel outlined, so he still has to decide on a flashback sequence, write that, and sketch out the Interlude sequences. Then he’ll get them all written, then get them interwoven…
Like I said, I know he talked about it in more detail. The remaining two hours should come tonight or tomorrow, I hope. It takes a storming long time to transcribe an hour’s worth of recording, even the bits I heard the first time through. The bits I didn’t hear are REALLY hard.
@89: Oh well. You are probably right. I was not over thrilled with Shallan’s either and she did went up a notch for me in WoR. However, Szeth has to be one of the character I’ve had the least interest in reading his POV….
I tend to browse through his very quickly…… same goes with Eshonai… Perhaps they won’t get as many POV as Kaladin and Shallan during their books…?
I guess I was hoping for a different line-up, but it is not my story but Brandon’s. He’s probably going to make it interesting even if the main character turns out being the stick! As long as he keeps a decent spotlight on the Kohlins, I’ll be happy.
@90: 2h more hours! Wow. You are a machine.
@Wetlandernw
The transcriptions and general info are awesome! Thanks much for this.
re: Tien, I want to say that we have confirmed info that at least some of Kaladin’s depression during the Weepings was due to a lack of stormlight, and that Tien was able to cheer him up by finding stones that naturally stored small amounts of stormlight. However, I could just be remembering someone’s unconfirmed theory here.
While the flashbacks and story of Szeth is of interest in that it deals with an entirely different culture and environment compared to that featured in the first 2 books, it appears to be peripheral to the main narrative. The same can be said of the Eshonai flashbacks and continuing saga (I am almost certain that she survived the fall into the chasm). The story and flashbacks of Dalinar and the Kholins, on the other hand, brings us to a better understanding of a principal character in the books and the leader of the Radiants in the struggle against the Voidbringers. It should also unravel some great mysteries featured in the 2 books. What were Gavilar’s goals regarding the Parshendi and what was the nature of his black stone? What caused his change from his earlier behavior as warrior and royal aspirant? Was he connected to the Sons of Honor of Amaram and Restares? What was the nature of his relationship with Taravangian? Why and how did Dalinar completely lose his memory of his late wife? How will Dalinar react to the revelation of his son as the killer of Sadeas? Of course, the advent of the Voidbringers will dictate the course of events in the later books. That part of the story is very pertinent to the role of Dalinar, however. It will be of great interest to me to see how the potential love triangle between Shallan, Kaladin, and Adolin plays out. Will Shalan see Kaladin as a big brother replacing Helaran, or as a romantic soulmate. Will Kaladin and Adolin deepen their budding friendship or become rivals? So many questions and expectations. I hope that the new book is as good as its predecessors and not delayed beyond early 2016.
I hope that the new book is as good as its predecessors and not delayed beyond early 2016.
As to the first, I’m confident that it will be. As to the second… I would expect fall 2016, rather than “early.” He plans to finish writing it this year, but it takes a minimum of 9 months to get from “finished writing” to “published.”
@93 I agree with you about Szeth and Eshonai. Whereas they do provide interesting viewpoint from outside cultures, their viewpoint remains secondary to the others.
As a reader, I am far more invest in the fate of Dalinar, Kaladin, Shallan and Adolin then Szeth or Eshonai. I feel we may have have similar expectations for the next books. For myself, I am especially anxious to find out about Dalinar’s reaction to his son’s actions and how everyone will deal with these.
You know, we’re going to find out about Dalinar’s reaction to Adolin’s actions, etc., no matter whose flashback sequence is in the next book. It’s not like that person will be the only significant POV character or anything. Brandon has said that it’s entirely possible that a flashback sequence could even be about someone who is dead – no longer involved in the main action sequence at all. So I wouldn’t worry that a Szeth or Eshonai flashback book would derail the main story arcs. Personally, I’m looking forward to both of those (as well as all the others he’s mentioned) because I love the glimpses back into the past events that brought them to the place they are now.
Szeth’s flashbacks will probably give us insight into the Shin culture and Stone Shamanism. It may also give us a lot more about the Heralds, or at least their Blades; they may have more information about the Knights Radiant that has not been obscured by Vorin theocracy; we might find out about the Order that didn’t disband; there’s just a lot of possibility there.
Eshonai’s flashbacks are a little more difficult to imagine with, because we know so little about her people, but it’s a fairly sure bet that we’ll find out more about Gavilar’s actions and what was so dangerous that he had to be killed. I’d guess we’ll learn more about the dark-light sphere from her flashbacks, though I can’t be sure.
I guess it comes back to “I’m pretty sure Brandon has a plan, and it’s going to be a way better story than I can figure out on my own.”
So am I really the only one rooting for a big come back for Eshonai?
I suspect that the Parshendi will be very central to the story and the Parshendi helping them, beginning with Shen/Rlain, will be one of the key things that helps stop this Desolation.
Why and how did Dalinar completely lose his memory of his late wife?
His memory loss was caused by his visit to the Nightwatcher (probably the curse), but we don’t know why he went there.
Regarding flashbacks, I think that Eshonai and Szeth offer a lot more than Dalinar. Now, saying that, Dalinar is my favorite character of those three to read. But I know I’ll get plenty of Dalinar in the main sequence, so I’m okay. But in terms of secrets revealed…
Dalinar’s flashbacks will probably (but not definitely) tell us about his visit with the Nightwatcher. That’s cool, but we don’t know how central to the plot it is yet because it just hasn’t been mentioned yet. It’s probably going to be big and huge, since Dalinar was originally slated for last flashback POV this sub-series.
We’ll also probably learn about the original conquest of Alethkar and more about Gavilar, especially how he was changing.
For Szeth and Eshonai, though…
One of the biggest mysteries in the book so far is how Szeth became Truthless. We know it was because he claimed the Surgebinders had returned. Well, how did he know that? One can assume that in his flashbacks, we’ll see other Surgebinders active on Roshar! Yes, those could be Heralds, or the undissolved Order of KRs! This could be huge! Plus, we’ll get to see a new culture in the Shin.
With Eshonai, we’ll almost definitely get to see more about the time when the Alethi and Parshendi met and were getting along. That means more about Gavilar, and presumably those who were involved with him like Amaram and Taravangian, and why the Listeners had him killed. We might get our first real hints as to what the dark stone meant (though I’m not sure about that — if they’d known about it and it was bad, they’d probably have had Szeth give it to them, unless there was a better reason not to…)
Anyway, in terms of secrets revealed, Szeth and Eshonai’s POVs are much more potentially revealing. The only real mystery that Dalinar has to tell us is the Nightwatcher one. Now, I’m betting that it’ll be huge, but I still think we have a more pressing need to see Eshonai and Szeth.
Personally, I think Dalinar will still be last. I’m guessing he’ll be switching to Eshonai.
Zen @@@@@ 97 – Definitely not the only one. I’m hoping she comes back from the fall, somehow manages to take control of herself back from whatever spren/influence is currently controlling her, and become the first Radiant Listener. I don’t know how likely that is, but I think it would be awesome.
Wetlander @@@@@ 83 – Thanks again for bringing us fresh information. You are awesome.
I’m actually excited to hear more of Szeth’s story, but I would be just as happy to learn more about Eshonai or Dalinar. And as has been mentioned before, whatever Brandon writes is sure to be amazing, regardless of which character he chooses.
If you guys ever need help transcribing audio, let me know, I’ve done it professionally. The biggest issue is I’m currently in Ghana and “consistent” is a poor descriptor of both my electricity and my internet – which is part of why I stayed out of the fandom from the publication of TWoK until after I read WoR and couldn’t take it anymore haha.
I for one, am confident we will get the story arc that is best, but I strongly think Szeth’s book has the most potential in terms of major plot points we are going to need going forward (especially as far as us theorists are concerned). The fact that the Shin culture is so different, as is their land itself, makes me feel like it’s going to be home to a lot more Cultivation-related things and possibly even magics, that I feel are going to be necessary going forward. That’s the side we’re missing the most. But the same could be said for the Parshendi and Eshonai in a lot of ways. I doubt it will be Dalinar (and sincerely hope it won’t) – we’re already so Alethi/Vorinism/Honor heavy that people are making a lot of decisions about things based on the small sliver of world we’ve seen and extrapolating it to all the components of the world he’s introduced.
Brandon also has a tendency to write very realistic how-religion-can-affect-people stories and I think some delving into how Szeth was brought up will bring a lot of insight into his character. It’s pretty hard to shake morals and values that have been drilled into you your whole life, and I think Szeth will have a lot more sympathizers by the end of the book. I hated whiny, my-life-sucks-there-is-no-hope, bitter Kaladin in TWoK (and at times, in WoR), and without his flashbacks in that book, I think he’d have been much lower on most peoples’ favorites list. It’s easy to forget how much knowing HOW a person got from point A to point B can influence your opinion of said person.
So far we’ve only seen Szeth obeying blindly, but we have no idea what he was doing during the times when he wasn’t being ordered to kill people. For all we know, he saved 10x the people he killed. There’s just too many blanks we don’t know yet. I’ll be really surprised if there’s not some serious depth to him as a character eventually. And as everyone else is mentioning, it’s not like we won’t still have main character POVs with the Kholins and cohorts, and obviously Kaladin.
Hey Wetlander, do you know if you will be returning to your Beta Reader role for the next book?
Also, I’ve always wondered if authors like BS use plot ideas from fans speculations on websites like this one.
Mikey @102 – I don’t know for sure, but I certainly hope so! I’m doing a fair number of gammas as they come along, and so far no one has told me I’m a failure as a beta. :) You can bet that if I’m offered the chance, I’ll take it!
As for the second… I don’t think Brandon does, or at least not major ones. He’s got so many ideas of his own that he’ll never get them all written, and he’s constantly getting more ideas from just living daily life. (Have you heard the story of where the idea for Steelheart originated?) In the context of the SA, I would be very surprised if anything major came from fan speculation; he’s had the basic story outlined in his head for years already.
There’s an interesting description of the author spectrum: on one end is the gardener, who starts writing and lets the story go where it will; on the other end is the architect, who outlines the story and makes sure it goes from point A to point B without getting sidetracked. Brandon describes himself as being nearer the architect end of the spectrum; he will let the story develop to some extent, but his first step in writing is to outlines it. If something develops that really doesn’t fit the outline, but that he feels is necessary, he will go remake the outline before he finishes the story – but he’s always working from a plan.
Could a fan speculation trigger an idea that he decides to use? It’s possible, but most of the things we speculate on are things he’s already decided.
I will grant that Szeth and ‘old’ Eshonai (before her stormform transformation) are more interesting characters than the stolid personality that Dalinar developed after his brother’s assassination. Dalinar, however, is at center stage in the current books, and his story and those of his family will affect what happens to the other major characters. I have little sympathy for Szeth. I had thought that his blind following of a master’s orders to kill was the result of a Nightwatcher curse that would cause the death of his family/clan/people if disobeyed. Instead, it turns out that he was dutifully following a Shin edict. Shades of ” I was only following orders”. Such fanatic and immoral adherence to some code elicits Nalan’s admiration and my disdain. Nor is there any evidence thus far that Szeth has good deeds to his credit after having become a ‘Truthless’ slave. He makes himself available to fulfill his mater’s whims – as evidenced by his life under the two masters prior to Taravangian. Eshonai was interesting and will be so again, I project, once she has rid herself of stormform.
@@@@@ wetlander no I haven’t heard the story of how he came up with steelheart, should be interesting, I love that series so far.
I hope Brandon is eating very healthy and staying fit, I am way hooked on several of his series (a lot of eggs in one basket). He needs to finish them.
Short version: He was driving to a signing somewhere on the East Coast, in horrible traffic, and without his GPS because his phone died. He was frustrated and a bit tense because he didn’t want to be late, but he wasn’t entirely sure where he was going. Someone cut him off in traffic, and his first reaction was, “If I had superpowers, I’d blow up your car!” followed by a momentary realization that a) it was a bad thing and b) he really would have, in that moment. Both were immediately overwhelemed by, “Hey, that would make a great story! What would we do if ordinary people were suddenly given extraordinary powers?” And… The Reckoners was born.
Wow, good thing he followed through and actually wrote the book.
This discussion about the possible backstory subject of the next SA book leads me to vote for an outside candidate, Lift. While she may not be cenral to the main story at this point, she is quite a fascinating and lovable character. Left to fend for herself in the ‘mean streets’ from an early age, she has managed to cope well even if she is forced to resort to thievery in order to eat. Her early childhood was far worse than that of Shallan, much less, Kaladin (Shallan’s trauma started when she was 10 or 11). She probably never knew her father, and her mother either died or abandoned her as a young child. Yet she developed into a very caring teen. At a key point in her Intelude chapter, she remarks to Nalan who is about to kill her and professes not to care if she had just done a great deed in risking her life to save Gawk from death, “I was once like that. It didn’t work. It hardly seemed like living”. Now, that’s someone who will achieve greatness.
Re: Someone’s question about Bondsmiths not killing the Stormfather.
If Bondsmiths bonded the Stormfather like Dalinar did, the Stormfather never became a Shardblade. This may be the “point of no return” for a spren, where the spren “dies” when oaths are broken. The Stormfather refuses to be captured in Shardblade form. His “superness” probably means something too, I suppose.
And thank you, Wetlander.
Wasn’t Lift going to be one of the flash-back characters for the second set of 5 books? (Pentalogy?)
@110 that is correct. The rest of the front five are Szeth/Eshonai/Dalinar though obviously the order is up in the air now. The back five is currently planned to be Taln, Shalash, Jasnah, Renarin, and Lift in no particular order.
Has anyone yet asked Brandon if Lift’s use of “starving” as a curse is her own invention (as a result of her own predicament as opposed to a curse many people use in some parts of Roshar)?
Because that’s a seemingly RAFO-safe question which may aid some fun far-out theories about Cultivation.
I saw a comment earlier (and lost it while reading all the other comments) talking about how Kaladin’s fighting skill is tied with Syl and wondering if most if not all of his skill comes from Syl. That’s brought up a couple times in WoR.
I don’t remember where exactly but Kal even asks Syl that straight out at one point. I remember Syl telling him that the skill is his, she just enhances it a little. And I think it’s proven when he fights the Chasamfiend near the end of the book. He’s not bonded with Syl at that point (or at least he’s very weakly bonded). He fights that thing mostly on his own and wins.
I think it’s the same for Shallan’s drawing ability, that’s something that she would be very good at with her bond to Pattern. (Partly because she’s worked at this skill for a large portion of her life.) Her bond with Pattern just makes her ridiculously good at it.
kei_rin – I would suggest that Shallan has innate drawing skills, and would be quite a good artist on her own – but her Memory thing, the ability to essentially photograph a scene in her mind, and then reproduce it with incredible accuracy, is from the bond.
At this point, I’m no longer willing to speculate about Kaladin; I would need to reread portions of TWoK again, research WoBs, and possibly ask Brandon a direct question. Maybe Ways will have a chance to ask that…
@wetlandernw– I can understand holding off on further speculation about Kaladin. (Though I am going to say that I think fighting is innate skill and A lot of what I’m saying is going off memory of chapters that are near the end of the book. I hope someone remember to bring this topic up again later when we actually get to those chapters.
Brandon will be at a signing just up the street from me, this Wednesday. I will see if I can ask about Kaladin.
Cool! If you’re interested in the Steelheart world, you could also ask a curiosity-question for us: is the “S” pendant the faithful wear a Superman S? Or you could stick to SA questions, because we have a zillion or two… :) and I think you’ve probably collected a boatload of your own!
I’m keeping this back in the Chapter 23 thread, since that’s where the earlier transcriptions are. Gotta use some form of logic… This is the second hour’s worth of signing table transcription. Sorry it’s taken me so long; real life keeps getting in the way, and sometimes I just can’t wear headphones any longer.
(Note: some of the fan questions are paraphrased, because a lot of people are hard to hear on a recording. Fortunately, Brandon is NOT AT ALL hard to hear! In transcribing his answers, I took out most of the “um”s and “so”s, and generally cleaned things up to make real sentences, etc. The details of specifically book-related answers are verbatim, with only filler noises removed.)
Fan: In the Mistborn trilogy, was it hard to write the final twist, or had it been planned that way?
BWS: This is always the way it was planned. There are some smaller things that I’ll allow spontaneity to change the book, but the general structure of the book is always planned out. And if something changes while I’m writing I go and throw away the plan and rebuild the plan, so I’m always writing with a plan.
Fan: Have you come up with the title character for Book 3 of Stormlight yet?
BWS: I have not. I have to finish Calamity.
Fan: Do you still think 2016 is realistic (for Stormlight 3)?
BWS: Yeah, it is realistic. One every two years is very realistic for me, and you can just watch along. I’ll have Calamity done by March, and then all I have to do is finish the book by January next year and we’ll be fine, so I’ll have eight months. Considering I have the outline done, that’s about a third of the work for me.
Fan: What was the book that was the hardest to write for you?
BWS: It would definitely be A Memory of Light, the last Wheel of Time book.
Fan: Why?
BWS: Well, number one, I had been following that series for 20 years, and I was finishing off the writing of an author I respected a lot, and trying to fill his shoes, and not being able to do it because no one could, and the end of a journey. Every other book I’ve finished, I know if I wanted to I could go back and write more about those characters. Wheel of Time, I can’t. It’s done. It’s not mine; I can’t go write another book about Mat or Perrin or anything like that. So there’s a finality to finishing that book that I haven’t had with any of my other books. And then in addition, logistically it was a very difficult book to write.
Fan: What is the little symbol you put in Elantris (when you sign it)?
BWS: It’s one of the Aons.
Fan: I haven’t read yet.
BWS: You’ll understand once you read. Most of the things I write in the books you won’t understand until you read it. Like “potato in a minefield” – that makes sense once you’ve read the book.
Fan: I’ve gotten both Legion books from Subterranean Press, and I was wondering if you’ve planned on doing any more through them.
BWS: I would like to. The thing is, it is kind of a hassle, just because working out release dates and things like that, part of the reason to do – I think they do gorgeous editions – but part of the reason to do the e-book things is so that I can be a little bit more spontaneous in releasing them and things like that, and so I’m likely to continue, but it is a bit hard. This time, we were like, “Why don’t you guys just release a limited edition, and we’ll do a print edition,” but then they were like, “No, please don’t do one.” So I think I’d go back to letting them do a cheap edition and a limited edition if I did another one with them, I don’t know.
Fan: Infinity Blade – are there other plans to continue with that, and are they going to release a print edition?
BWS: What the plan is right now, if I can convince them to do it, is to do a nice print edition that will include the script of the first one, annotated by the guys who wrote it, my story in between, then the script for the second, then my story, then the script of the third, so it’s a complete story, with the cut scenes illustrated, and things like that. So even a graphic novel, then prose, then a graphic novel – something like that.
Fan: (something incomprehensible about emotion…) Do you like to connect with your reader on an emotional level?
BWS: I do. So here’s the thing: I am not an emotional person by my nature, and one of the only things that makes me feel very strong emotions is fiction. A really good piece of fiction makes me feel like the characters do, and the rest of the time, I’m just kind of – I won’t say emotionless, but not emotional. It’s not that. It’s like some people have wild mood swings; one day they’re a 20 and one day they’re an 80, on a scale of 1 to 100, right? I’m always a 70, right? Like almost consistently always pleasantly happy. I don’t know what depression feels like. I don’t know what it really feels like to be sad. I’ve never really felt that – except when I’m reading a book. Does that make sense? So that’s one of the reasons I write, because I want to be able to (go through?) those emotions with people.
Fan: What was your inspiration for coming up with Szeth?
BWS: So… I designed his culture first, one of the odd cases where I was working on the culture, and out of that grew his character, at odds with his culture. So I wanted somebody who was both the paragon of his culture and the person who was at odds with it. That concept just worked for me.
Fan: I read online, something about one of your original drafts, (I think it was about) Gavilar, and it was where he was blind?
BWS: Yeah that was actually Taravangian, in the oldest version. One of the very first things I wrote was that, though Taravangian had a different name then, and was very different. Szeth has stayed the same through all the revisions. Kaladin has changed wildly, and almost everybody has changed dramatically, except Szeth is the same person. Him and Dalinar are the same.
Fan: Do you ever have trouble keeping your characters straight? How long does it take to get back into them?
BWS: If I stop writing and go back, it is hard. It takes about a month to get back into a story after I stop. I don’t get the characters mixed up.
(related question I couldn’t decipher)?
I try to, but I don’t always manage it, because of deadlines and things. It’s always going to cost me, and I know it will, sometimes you can’t avoid that. In the old days, I never did it, when I didn’t have a publisher, but now it’s my job. When they say, “We need this revision done,” I stop and do the revision, but it costs me.
Fan: What was your inspiration for Sixth of the Dusk? It feels so, Polynesian or Hawaiian…
BWS: I love Hawaiian and Polynesian culture, and it was basically me reading some stories about Kamehameha, and his unification of the islands, and all this stuff, and I’m like, “Ah, I’ve got to use this someday.” It was years later before I got to use it, but I did find a time to use it. And then we got Kekai to do the illustration, and he’s Polynesian, so…
Fan: If you drew a stick figure of a chalkling, would it be able to spike other chalklings and get their powers?
BWS: (laughter) No, because no one in this world knows what that is, because they’re separate universes, but it is very clever. If you were doing it, I’d probably let you get away with it.
Fan: At the end of A Memory of Light, it mentions that Rand is no longer ta’veren – does that apply to Mat & Perrin as well? And if it does, how does it apply to Mat’s luck?
BWS: Everything I’m saying right now is not 100% canon, because I’m only working off of my guesstimates based on his notes. I believe that Mat’s luck is a soul attribute that is independent of him being a ta’veren, but enhanced by his ta’veren nature. Part of the proof of this is the Heroes of the Horn knowing him as Gambler, which means in other Ages when he’s been born and not been ta’veren, he’s still had luck and attraction to things like that. Plus things in the notes, I’m basing on that. So it does not necessarily mean they aren’t ta’veren right now, but even if they weren’t, I think Mat would still have his luck.
Fan: So you don’t know whether they’re ta’veren or not?
BWS: I do not know. My suspicion is that if he would have written the outriggers, Mat still would have been, and maybe Perrin, because Perrin was going to be in the outriggers, we know this. But I don’t know for sure.
But I think it would have been fun, if in some parallel dimension if I were to have written them, which I’m never going to, I would have not made Mat ta’veren, or Perrin, I would have made Tuon ta’veren, and forced Mat to deal with someone else who was ta’veren, which I think would have been interesting.
Fan: Can women be ta’veren? Because in the entire series there is not a single female ta’veren.
BWS: There is not, but I’m very sure that they can be, based on things that I read in the notes. So, that’s what I would have done, but I don’t know if that’s what Robert Jordan would have done. Can you just imagine that, Mat having to think that he’s in someone else’s story now?
Fan: In Rithmatist, you mention that Joel actually sneaks into the classroom, is that a spin-off of what you did?
BWS: I actually had a teacher once ask, “Who are you?” One of them actually picked me out. Fortunately, that was one that my roommate was going to, so I was able to (pretend I was just there with him. -Paraphrased, because what he said involved too many gestures and non-word sounds.)
Fan: How do you keep it all organized when you’re doing so much at once?
BWS: A wiki. An internal wiki is where I keep all the Cosmere and all the notes on that. The other things, I don’t have to worry about as much. For instance, Reckoners, I’ve got one viewpoint character and one major plot; that I can keep in my head. I’ve got note files and things like that, but the Cosmere? Big old wiki full of stuff.
Fan: In The Emperor’s Soul – when did you decide to change the beginning?
BWS: It was Mary, from the podcast with me, is very good at short fiction. She read it, and she said, “This intro is just holding the story back.” And I read it again, and I’m like, I really feel that she’s right. I felt at the end of it that the intro was interesting for people who liked Hoid already, but for people who didn’t, it was just distracting and confusing. So at the end of the day, I cut it out, and I think it was a good move, even though it was sad. If you google the phrase “killing your darlings,” it’s a phrase we talk about in writing and storytelling. That scene was what made me want to write the book, it’s what started me off in writing the book, and then I cut it out. But sometimes you have to end up doing that.
Fan: When are you going to write the other Warbreaker book? Last time I came to hear you talk, you said you were going to, and now you have 3000 other projects!
BWS: I know, and the Warbreaker fans really get on my case about that. Well, I wrote Words of Radiance, and I got Vasher into it, so that would kindle interest, and make sure that you at least got to see your characters again. But did you hear the story about that? So, I wrote The Way of Kings in 2002, the first version, and in that version Kaladin trained with a swordmaster, and that swordmaster, a guy named Vasher, had a mysterious past. After I finished that book, later on I wrote Warbreaker as a prequel to Way of Kings, to show Vasher’s backstory. But then Warbreaker came out before Way of Kings, which was a really kind of interesting thing. So in my head, Warbreaker is the prequel, but to everyone else… Yes, it is a totally different world, different planets, people get around…
Me: So how much of Vasher’s backstory do we actually have?
BWS: Well, a huge chunk of it…! If you were reading Way of Kings, you would know nothing, and then you’d read Warbreaker and you’d be like, “Oh, here’s a whole past that he had!” That doesn’t mean it’s all of his past.
(He’s not giving any hints as to whether Vasher had any connection with Roshar prior to Warbreaker – or at least not without someone asking a much more direct question.)
Fan: In Sixth of the Dusk, and where that fits in the timeline, are the visitors from anywhere we’ve seen before?
BWS: You have seen people from that place before.
Fan: And if I were to speculate more on which one, you’d say…
BWS: Then I would say RAFO.
Fan: There was the poem at the end of Way of Kings. How long did that take?
BWS: It took an embarrassingly long amount of time. I am not a poet, so mixing poetry with a really rigid form… Yes, the keteks take a long time. Both of them.
Me: Are you going to do that in every book?
BWS: A ketek? Yes, I probably will do that.
Fan: Warbreaker. Will we see more?
BWS: Yes you will. It is the project that is the most distant right now – the major project that is the most distant. Getting back to that, I feel like I have to do more Stormlight before I can get back to a different epic fantasy.
Fan: Elantris, though, how you came out with Emperor’s Soul, it didn’t involve any of the magic or anything, I have a feeling they’re going to collide?
BWS: Yeah, there will be – you will see much more of that. Definitely.
Fan: So we’ll be able to see the actual Elantris again? Shining and beautiful again?
BWS: Yes, you will.
Fan: It was very sad, to see them all in pain, the continual pain and…
BWS: One of the reasons I wrote Warbreaker was that I didn’t think I could get back to Elantris yet, but I realized I’d written this entire book about the city of the gods, and you never got to see the city of the gods. So Warbreaker was another take on that idea.
Fan: So have you decided whose book is going to be the (anchor? in the Stormlight Archive)?
BWS: I have not. What I’ve decided is that I need to actually write out, rather than just having the outlines, write out the three backstories that are left of the first five, and then compare them to the story as I’m writing it, and see which one works. Because any one of them could work, but as I’m writing the book… yeah. It’s one of those things that I know I need the flexibility on, as I write, to make it work.
Well, phooey. I don’t have time to read the entire transcription now, but hopefully before I see BWS on the 26th. I don’t think any of the questions we have been discussing are answered, from a quick scan.
Re: enhancements to Kal’s fighting ability, or his love of heights and adrenalin rushes for that matter, being a result of his bond with Syl…I have reframed the question several times in an attempt to avoid a RAFO. We’ll see.
I have a long list of questions for Brandon, plus the ones from the FB group. Firemyst will be at the signing too, and if she’s looking for questions, then I’ll gladly share. But I’m not holding my breath on getting the entirety of both lists answered. Sigh.
GAH! Something I’ve forgotten to bring up here – (paraphrasing, mostly) someone on 17th Shard asked Brandon if his skill with the spear was the Windrunner “special skill” (which I’m now referring to as The Quirk). His reply was that the Windrunner Quirk is “Strength of Squires.” So you’ll want to make sure you phrase it in such a way as make it clear you’re not asking if it’s his Windrunner Quirk.
Kei_rin @113:
I think he had very significant help from Shallan in that fight. In fact, I daresay the chasmfiend would have killed him if Shallan hadn’t used lightweaving to make the chasmfiend focus on and strike at imaginary Kaladins instead of the real one.
And finally, the last hour of the signing table Q&A. I still have to go back and listen through the opening Q&A to see if there’s anything that needs to be transcribed; I think it was mostly pretty general stuff.
Fan: Do you have any word on the Mistborn video games that are coming out?
BWS: I have no official word, other than to say that we did option the rights to the film to the people who are making the video game, and told them, “You have to make the video game or you can’t make the film.” I actually really like them, and their script treatments on the film are great. And it’s not their fault, really, that the game hasn’t taken off. It’s just that they’ve had – these things happen in video games. The studio they were working with went under, and another one split, and this sort of stuff happens.
For a family who came through very late; it was about 10:30 by then:
BWS: For kids who have to wait in line with their parents too long, I bring stickers. So if you want a sticker, I’ve got Human the Koloss, he eats people’s heads, he’s got a big sword, or I’ve got Syl, the windspren, she’s like a fairy thing, she’s very sarcastic. So if you want one, you can have one. (Dad wanted Syl – the kid chose Human instead. Dad got Syl anyway.)
Fan: Can you tell me anything about Kaladin’s maternal grandparents?
BWS: Let’s just say that his mother (you’re asking a very astute question) gave up more than most people gave up in that city to go be what she became. She’s definitely fallen in social standing since her childhood. She took a hit.
Question re: Brandon’s involvement in the Infinity Blade series.
BWS: What happened there was, I came in when the first game was already made. They said we’d really like to do something, and I really like the guys, they’re friends of mine, and I’m like, “You don’t have a story here. You’ve got to have a protagonist and things like this.” So then I said, “Okay, let’s take what you have, tell me what you have for the world, and let’s brainstorm together, and let’s construct a narrative. And so we did it together. We spent a lot of time in their offices constructing the next two games, then I was able to write the novellas between the two.
Fan: So did you have any input on the game stories, then?
BWS: Yes, I did. I had a lot of influence, though I did not write the dialogue, so sometimes it’s a little bit cringe-worthy. They sent me the script, but I just didn’t have time to go over the scripts for them. Sometime I’d like to actually do a game with them, because they make great games.
Fan: When you started writing Cosmere novels, how much of it had you outlined? How far ahead had you thought?
BWS: When I started writing Cosmere novels? When I started started, I was a teenager. Totally hadn’t thought very far ahead. When I was an adult and I was writing them, I wrote one when I was like 20, and I had an inkling, and I played around with things. The first one that I wrote with a real, conscious eye toward the Cosmere was Elantris. So the ones that have been published, yes. But when I first started, I had a little bit of an inkling.
Fan: Have you ever backed yourself into a corner with it?
BWS: Not yet! I have backed myself into corners by saying things to fans that I’ve already changed in my notes and hadn’t realized I had, and stuff like that – I do that all the time. But usually when I do that, I just tell them. “Ah, I’m sorry, I just changed this, guys.” I’m still convinced that Stayer and Stepper – that (RJ) didn’t know those were two different horses. I’m utterly convinced that he made the mistake, and then just covered it. Because that’s the sort of things we writers do.
One of the ones I’ve been working on a lot lately is, how much can you affect things that are Invested with other magic systems? Should it be not at all, should it be a little bit, should it be…? But then I have to go back to Mistborn, and I’ve got canon here, where people are pushing and pulling on things that are Invested, but I tried when I was even writing Mistborn to make sure that the someone was drawing on the Mist, or had extra power for some reason before they were pushing on… and so I left myself that room, but at the same time I’ve established that you can do it, so anyway.
In conversation about how long it takes to write a book, how fast he writes, etc.:
Last year, he wrote Firefight and two Mistborn novels, each at 100K words. This year, he will only write Calamity and the sequel to Words of Radiance. He will probably finish that one up in February or March, and it will come out in the fall. So he’s generally got about 300- to 400-thousand words of polished work to work with each year
BWS: I actually plot the Stormlight Archive books as a trilogy; each book – like I would plot the entire Reckoners series – I plot that for a book, and then I plot the short story sequence, and then I plot the novella. Usually the flashback sequence is a novella. And so then I write basically three books, a short story collection, and a novella, and put them all together woven as one book.
Fan: Which is your favorite Epic to write?
BWS: To write? Obliteration, because he’s creepy in the way I like people to be creepy.
Fan: In Sixth of the Dusk, it feels like it’s a crossover…
BWS: That is true.
Fan: So is it a planet that we’ve seen before, or ???
BWS: Yes. Well, you have seen the people they are calling “The Ones Above.”
Fan: And you’re not going to tell any more?
BWS: Nope.
Fan: When will we know?
BWS: Yeah, fifteen years maybe? Hopefully it won’t take me that long, but I only just finished the outlines for Era Three Mistborn, which is now what we’re calling the 1980s, so I haven’t even at the moment got the sketches of the sci-fi one, I don’t have the outlines and things. So in other words, we aren’t to the science fiction era; we’re a ways off from that.
(This looks to me like a clear indication that The Ones Above are from Scadrial…)
Fan: What do you think is the difference between SciFi and Fantasy?
BWS: SciFi works with the improbable becoming reality; Fantasy works with the impossible pretending to be reality. I think the line is between what could be and what can’t be. By my definition, that kind of takes Star Wars into Fantasy. I don’t necessarily like Asimov’s definitions, just because he was very down on fantasy. A lot of the fantasy of his era was very Conan-ish. He was a great writer, I respect his fiction a lot, but I don’t think he gave fantasy its fair due.
I would count Star Trek definitely science fiction, they’re trying to talk about – even though they’re using fantastical teleporters and stuff – they’re trying to say this is what’s possible. It’s social science fiction, a lot of it.
Fan: But wouldn’t you say Star Wars is really both?
BWS: I would say it’s a mash-up hybrid. It’s a fantasy magic system in a space opera science fiction setting.
Fan: What was the main inspiration for Elantris?
BWS: My main inspiration for Elantris was reading in the New Testament, actually, about lepers and leper colonies, and wanting to write a story about a magical leper colony. And that’s where the idea for the people who got this disease, and the city, and everything like that.
(In the acknowledgements to Firefight, he thanks his beta-, gamma- and proof-readers and promises that if he ever becomes an Epic, he will kill them last. This triggered a discussion among said readers regarding their defense, and the primary question… what’s his weakness? Chocolate? No, not chocolate.)
Spoiler for Firefight:
BWS: Mac n cheese? Well, No ’cause I like mac n cheese too much. Fish sticks. It would be fish sticks.
Fan: I thought you disliked fish sticks.
BWS: Exactly. That’s why they’d be my weakness.
(Re: Legion books)
BWS: We will eventually be doing a collection of those on my website, so if you want to wait on those, I’m going to do three novellas, and then we’ll collect them into a three-novella thing, so it’s a regular book size.
Fan: When is the second book of the Rithmatist coming out?
BWS: I haven’t written it yet. I started doing the research, and it was so much work I realized I needed more time to do it, because I’m going to South America in it, and I just needed to know South American cultures better, so I decided I need to take another year to do research. So I’m doing research for it right now, I’m going to write it hopefully after I finish the next Stormlight book, and then we’ll release it soon after. So it’s a little ways away.
Thank you so much for this great service to community, Wetlandernw! And thus is Lopen’s extensive use of Stormlight for regeneration explained. “Strength of the Squires” is really useful, it seems. I am also glad that Kaladin’s fighting ability is his own.
@121
I didn’t mean to imply that Shallan wasn’t helpful there but my point still stands. If Kal wasn’t a kick ass fighter Shallan’s distractions wouldn’t have been enough to actually kill the chasmfeind.