Start reading Oathbringer, the new volume of Brandon Sanderson’s Stormlight Archive epic, right now. For free!
Tor.com is serializing the much-awaited third volume in the Stormlight Archive series every Tuesday until the novel’s November 14, 2017 release date.
Every installment is collected here in the Oathbringer index.
Need a refresher on the Stormlight Archive before beginning Oathbringer? Here’s a summary of what happened in Book 1: The Way of Kings and Book 2: Words of Radiance.
Spoiler warning: Comments will contain spoilers for previous Stormlight books, other works that take place in Sanderson’s cosmere (Elantris, Mistborn, Warbreaker, etc.), and the available chapters of Oathbringer, along with speculation regarding the chapters yet to come.
Chapter 25
The Girl Who Looked Up
I will confess my murders before you. Most painfully, I have killed someone who loved me dearly.
—From Oathbringer, preface
The tower of Urithiru was a skeleton, and these strata beneath Shallan’s fingers were veins that wrapped the bones, dividing and spreading across the entire body. But what did those veins carry? Not blood.
She slid through the corridors on the third level, in the bowels, away from civilization, passing through doorways without doors and rooms without occupants.
Men had locked themselves in with their light, telling themselves that they’d conquered this ancient behemoth. But all they had were outposts in the darkness. Eternal, waiting darkness. These hallways had never seen the sun. Storms that raged through Roshar never touched here. This was a place of eternal stillness, and men could no more conquer it than cremlings could claim to have conquered the boulder they hid beneath.
She defied Dalinar’s orders—the very ones she’d suggested—that all were to travel in pairs. She didn’t worry about that. Her satchel and safepouch were stuffed with new spheres recharged in the highstorm. She felt gluttonous carrying so many, breathing in the Light whenever she wished. She was as safe as a person could be, so long as she had that Light.
She wore Veil’s clothing, but not yet her face. She wasn’t truly exploring, though she did make a mental map. She just wanted to be in this place, sensing it. It could not be comprehended, but perhaps it could be felt.
Jasnah had spent years hunting for this mythical city and the information she’d assumed it would hold. Navani spoke of the ancient technology she was sure this place must contain. So far, she’d been disappointed. She’d cooed over the Oathgates, had been impressed by the system of lifts. That was it. No majestic fabrials from the past, no diagrams explaining lost technology. No books or writings at all. Just dust.
And darkness, Shallan thought, pausing in a circular chamber with corridors splitting out in seven diff rent directions. She had felt the wrongness Mraize spoke of. She’d felt it the moment she’d tried to draw this place. Urithiru was like the impossible geometries of Pattern’s shape. Invisible, yet grating, like a discordant sound.
She picked a direction at random and continued, finding herself in a corridor narrow enough that she could brush both walls with her fingers. The strata had an emerald cast here, an alien color for stone. A hundred shades of wrongness.
She passed several small rooms before entering a much larger chamber. She stepped into it, holding a diamond broam high for light, revealing that she was on a raised portion at the front of a large room with curving walls and rows of stone… benches?
It’s a theater, she thought. And I’ve walked out onto the stage. Yes, she could make out a balcony above. Rooms like this struck her with their humanity. Everything else about this place was so empty and arid. Endless rooms, corridors, and caverns. Floors strewn with only the occasional bit of civilization’s detritus, like rusted hinges or an old boot’s buckle. Decayspren huddled like barnacles on ancient doors.
A theater was more real. More alive, despite the span of the epochs. She stepped into the center and twirled about, letting Veil’s coat flare around her. “I always imagined being up on one of these. When I was a child, becoming a player seemed the grandest job. To get away from home, travel to new places.” To not have to be myself for at least a brief time each day.
Pattern hummed, pushing out from her coat to hover above the stage in three dimensions. “What is it?”
“It’s a stage for concerts or plays.”
“Plays?”
“Oh, you’d like them,” she said. “People in a group each pretend to be someone different, and tell a story together.” She strode down the steps at the side, walking among the benches. “The audience out here watches.”
Pattern hovered in the center of the stage, like a soloist. “Ah…” he said. “A group lie?”
“A wonderful, wonderful lie,” Shallan said, settling onto a bench, Veil’s satchel beside her. “A time when people all imagine together.”
“I wish I could see one,” Pattern said. “I could understand people… mmmm… through the lies they want to be told.”
Shallan closed her eyes, smiling, remembering the last time she’d seen a play at her father’s. A traveling children’s troupe come to entertain her. She’d taken Memories for her collection—but of course, that was now lost at the bottom of the ocean.
“The Girl Who Looked Up,” she whispered.
“What?” Pattern asked.
Shallan opened her eyes and breathed out Stormlight. She hadn’t sketched this particular scene, so she used what she had handy: a drawing she’d done of a young child in the market. Bright and happy, too young to cover her safehand. The girl appeared from the Stormlight and scampered up the steps, then bowed to Pattern.
“There was a girl,” Shallan said. “This was before storms, before memories, and before legends—but there was still a girl. She wore a long scarf to blow in the wind.”
A vibrant red scarf grew around the girl’s neck, twin tails extending far behind her and flapping in a phantom wind. The players had made the scarf hang behind the girl using strings from above. It had seemed so real.
“The girl in the scarf played and danced, as girls do today,” Shallan said, making the child prance around Pattern. “In fact, most things were the same then as they are today. Except for one big difference. The wall.”
Shallan drained an indulgent number of spheres from her satchel, then sprinkled the floor of the stage with grass and vines like from her homeland. Across the back of the stage, a wall grew as Shallan had imagined it. A high, terrible wall stretching toward the moons. Blocking the sky, throwing everything around the girl into shadow.
The girl stepped toward it, looking up, straining to see the top.
“You see, in those days, a wall kept out the storms,” Shallan said. “It had existed for so long, nobody knew how it had been built. That did not bother them. Why wonder when the mountains began or why the sky was high? Like these things were, so the wall was.”
The girl danced in its shadow, and other people sprang up from Shallan’s Light. Each was a person from one of her sketches. Vathah, Gaz, Palona, Sebarial. They worked as farmers or washwomen, doing their duties with heads bowed. Only the girl looked up at that wall, her twin scarf tails streaming behind her.
She approached a man standing behind a small cart of fruit, wearing Kaladin Stormblessed’s face.
“Why is there a wall?” she asked the man selling fruit, speaking with her own voice.
“To keep the bad things out,” he replied.
“What bad things?”
“Very bad things. There is a wall. Do not go beyond it, or you shall die.”
The fruit seller picked up his cart and moved away. And still, the girl looked up at the wall. Pattern hovered beside her and hummed happily to himself.
“Why is there a wall?” she asked the woman suckling her child. The woman had Palona’s face.
“To protect us,” the woman said.
“To protect us from what?”
“Very bad things. There is a wall. Do not go beyond it, or you shall die.”
The woman took her child and left.
The girl climbed a tree, peeking out the top, her scarf streaming behind her. “Why is there a wall?” she called to the boy sleeping lazily in the nook of a branch.
“What wall?” the boy asked.
The girl thrust her finger pointedly toward the wall.
“That’s not a wall,” the boy said, drowsy. Shallan had given him the face of one of the bridgemen, a Herdazian. “That’s just the way the sky is over there.”
“It’s a wall,” the girl said. “A giant wall.”
“It must be there for a purpose,” the boy said. “Yes, it is a wall. Don’t go beyond it, or you’ll probably die.”
“Well,” Shallan continued, speaking from the audience, “these answers did not satisfy the girl who looked up. She reasoned to herself, if the wall kept evil things out, then the space on this side of it should be safe.
“So, one night while the others of the village slept, she sneaked from her home with a bundle of supplies. She walked toward the wall, and indeed the land was safe. But it was also dark. Always in the shadow of that wall. No sunlight, ever, directly reached the people.”
Shallan made the illusion roll, like scenery on a scroll as the players had used. Only far, far more realistic. She had painted the ceiling with light, and looking up, you seemed to be looking only at an infinite sky— dominated by that wall.
This is… this is far more extensive than I’ve done before, she thought, surprised. Creationspren had started to appear around her on the benches, in the form of old latches or doorknobs, rolling about or moving end over end.
Well, Dalinar had told her to practice.…
“The girl traveled far,” Shallan said, looking back toward the stage. “No predators hunted her, and no storms assaulted her. The only wind was the pleasant one that played with her scarf, and the only creatures she saw were the cremlings that clicked at her as she walked.
“At long last, the girl in the scarves stood before the wall. It was truly expansive, running as far as she could see in either direction. And its height! It reached almost to the Tranquiline Halls!”
Shallan stood and walked onto the stage, passing into a different land— an image of fertility, vines, trees, and grass, dominated by that terrible wall. It grew spikes from its front in bristling patches.
I didn’t draw this scene out. At least… not recently.
She’d drawn it as a youth, in detail, putting her imagined fancies down on paper.
“What happened?” Pattern said. “Shallan? I must know what happened.
Did she turn back?”
“Of course she didn’t turn back,” Shallan said. “She climbed. There were outcroppings in the wall, things like these spikes or hunched, ugly statues. She had climbed the highest trees all through her youth. She could do this.”
The girl started climbing. Had her hair been white when she’d started?
Shallan frowned.
Shallan made the base of the wall sink into the stage, so although the girl got higher, she remained chest-height to Shallan and Pattern.
“The climb took days,” Shallan said, hand to her head. “At night, the girl who looked up would tie herself a hammock out of her scarf and sleep there. She picked out her village at one point, remarking on how small it seemed, now that she was high.
“As she neared the top, she finally began to fear what she would find on the other side. Unfortunately, this fear did not stop her. She was young, and questions bothered her more than fear. So it was that she finally struggled to the very top and stood to see the other side. The hidden side…”
Shallan choked up. She remembered sitting at the edge of her seat, listening to this story. As a child, when moments like watching the players had been the only bright spots in life.
Too many memories of her father, and of her mother, who had loved telling her stories. She tried to banish those memories, but they wouldn’t go.
Shallan turned. Her Stormlight… she’d used up almost everything she’d pulled from her satchel. Out in the seats, a crowd of dark figures watched. Eyeless, just shadows, people from her memories. The outline of her father, her mother, her brothers and a dozen others. She couldn’t create them, because she hadn’t drawn them properly. Not since she’d lost her collection…
Next to Shallan, the girl stood triumphantly on the wall’s top, her scarves and white hair streaming out behind her in a sudden wind. Pattern buzzed beside Shallan.
“… and on that side of the wall,” Shallan whispered, “the girl saw steps.”
The back side of the wall was crisscrossed with enormous sets of steps leading down to the ground, so distant.
“What… what does it mean?” Pattern said.
“The girl stared at those steps,” Shallan whispered, remembering, “and suddenly the gruesome statues on her side of the wall made sense. The spears. The way it cast everything into shadow. The wall did indeed hide something evil, something frightening. It was the people, like the girl and her village.”
The illusion started to break down around her. This was too ambitious for her to hold, and it left her strained, exhausted, her head starting to pound. She let the wall fade, claiming its Stormlight. The landscape vanished, then finally the girl herself. Behind, the shadowed figures in the seats started to evaporate. Stormlight streamed back to Shallan, stoking the storm inside.
“That’s how it ended?” Pattern asked.
“No,” Shallan said, Stormlight puffing from her lips. “She goes down, sees a perfect society lit by Stormlight. She steals some and brings it back. The storms come as a punishment, tearing down the wall.”
“Ah…” Pattern said, hovering beside her on the now-dull stage. “So that’s how the storms first began?”
“Of course not,” Shallan said, feeling tired. “It’s a lie, Pattern. A story. It doesn’t mean anything.”
“Then why are you crying?”
She wiped her eyes and turned away from the empty stage. She needed to get back to the markets.
In the seats, the last of the shadowy audience members puffed away. All but one, who stood up and walked out the back doors of the theater. Startled, Shallan felt a sudden shock run through her.
That figure hadn’t been one of her illusions.
She flung herself from the stage—landing hard, Veil’s coat fluttering— and dashed after the figure. She held the rest of her Stormlight, a thrumming, violent tempest. She skidded into the hall outside, glad for sturdy boots and simple trousers.
Something shadowy moved down the corridor. Shallan gave chase, lips drawn to a sneer, letting Stormlight rise from her skin and illuminate her surroundings. As she ran, she pulled a string from her pocket and tied her hair back, becoming Radiant. Radiant would know what to do if she caught this person.
Can a person look that much like a shadow?
“Pattern,” she shouted, thrusting her right hand forward. Luminescent fog formed there, becoming her Shardblade. Light escaped her lips, transforming her more fully into Radiant. Luminescent wisps trailed behind her, and she felt it chasing her. She charged into a small round chamber and skidded to a stop.
A dozen versions of herself, from drawings she’d done recently, split around her and dashed through the room. Shallan in her dress, Veil in her coat. Shallan as a child, Shallan as a youth. Shallan as a soldier, a happy wife, a mother. Leaner here, plumper there. Scarred. Bright with excitement. Bloodied and in pain. They vanished after passing her, collapsing one after another into Stormlight that curled and twisted about itself before vanishing away.
Radiant raised her Shardblade in the stance Adolin had been teaching her, sweat dripping down the sides of her face. The room would have been dark but for the Light curling off her skin and passing through her clothing to rise around her.
Empty. She’d either lost her quarry in the corridors, or it had been a spren and not a person at all.
Or there was nothing there in the first place, a part of her worried. Your mind is not trustworthy these days.
“What was that?” Radiant said. “Did you see it?”
No, Pattern thought to her. I was thinking on the lie.
She walked around the edge of the circular room. The wall was scored by a series of deep slots that ran from floor to ceiling. She could feel air moving through them. What was the purpose of a room like this? Had the people who had designed this place been mad?
Radiant noted faint light coming from several of the slots—and with it the sounds of people in a low, echoing clatter. The Breakaway market? Yes, she was in that region, and while she was on the third level, the market’s cavern was a full four stories high.
She moved to the next slot and peered through it, trying to decide just where it let out. Was this—
Something moved in the slot.
A dark mass wriggled deep inside, squeezing between walls. Like goo, but with bits jutting out. Those were elbows, ribs, fingers splayed along one wall, each knuckle bending backward.
A spren, she thought, trembling. It is some strange kind of spren.
The thing twisted, head deforming in the tiny confines, and looked toward her. She saw eyes reflecting her light, twin spheres set in a mashed head, a distorted human visage.
Radiant pulled back with a sharp gasp, summoning her Shardblade again and holding it wardingly before herself. But what was she going to do? Hack her way through the stone to get to the thing? That would take forever.
Did she even want to reach it?
No. But she had to anyway.
The market, she thought, dismissing her Blade and darting back the way she’d come. It’s heading to the market.
With Stormlight propelling her, Radiant dashed through corridors, barely noticing as she breathed out enough to transform her face into Veil’s. She swerved through a network of twisted passages. This maze, these enigmatic tunnels, were not what she’d expected from the home of the Knights Radiant. Shouldn’t this be a fortress, simple but grand—a beacon of light and strength in the dark times?
Instead it was a puzzle. Veil stumbled out of the back corridors into populated ones, then dashed past a group of children laughing and holding up chips for light and making shadows on the walls.
Another few turns took her out onto the balcony walk around the cavernous Breakaway market, with its bobbing lights and busy pathways. Veil turned left to see slots in the wall here. For ventilation?
The thing had come through one of these, but where had it gone after that? A scream rose, shrill and cold, from the floor of the market below. Cursing to herself, Veil took the steps at a reckless pace. Just like Veil. Running headlong into danger.
She sucked in her breath, and the Stormlight puffing around her pulled in, causing her to stop glowing. After a short dash, she found people gathering between two packed rows of tents. The stalls here sold various goods, many of which looked to be salvage from the more abandoned warcamps. More than a few enterprising merchants—with the tacit approval of their highprinces—had sent expeditions back to gather what they could. With Stormlight flowing and Renarin to help with the Oathgate, those had finally been allowed into Urithiru.
The highprinces had gotten first pick. The rest of their finds were heaped in the tents here, watched over by guards with long cudgels and short tempers.
Veil shoved her way to the front of the crowd, finding a large Horneater man cursing and holding his hand. Rock, she thought, recognizing the bridgeman though he wasn’t in uniform.
His hand was bleeding. Like it was stabbed right through the center, Veil thought.
“What happened here?” she demanded, still holding her Light in to keep it from puffing out and revealing her.
Rock eyed her while his companion—a bridgeman she thought she’d seen before—wrapped his hand. “Who are you to ask me this thing?”
Storms. She was Veil right now, but she didn’t dare expose the ruse, especially not in the open. “I’m on Aladar’s policing force,” she said, digging in her pocket. “I have my commission here…”
“Is fine,” Rock said, sighing, his wariness seeming to evaporate. “I did nothing. Some person pulled knife. I did not see him well—long coat, and a hat. A woman in crowd screamed, drawing my attention. Then, this man, he attacked.”
“Storms. Who is dead?”
“Dead?” The Horneater looked to his companion. “Nobody is dead. Attacker stabbed my hand, then ran. Was assassination attempt, maybe? Person got angry about rule of tower, so he attacked me, for being in Kholin guard?”
Veil felt a chill. Horneater. Tall, burly.
The attacker had chosen a man who looked very similar to the one she had stabbed the other day. In fact, they weren’t far from All’s Alley. Just a few “streets” over in the market.
The two bridgemen turned to leave, and Veil let them go. What more could she learn? The Horneater had been targeted not because of anything he’d done, but because of how he looked. And the attacker had been wearing a coat and hat. Like Veil usually did…
“I thought I’d find you here.”
Veil started, then whirled around, hand going to her belt knife. The speaker was a woman in a brown havah. She had straight Alethi hair, dark brown eyes, bright red painted lips, and sharp black eyebrows almost certainly enhanced with makeup. Veil recognized this woman, who was shorter than she’d seemed while sitting down. She was one of the thieves that Veil had approached at All’s Alley, the one whose eyes had lit up when Shallan had drawn the Ghostblood’s symbol.
“What did he do to you?” the woman asked, nodding toward Rock. “Or do you just have a thing for stabbing Horneaters?”
“This wasn’t me,” Veil said.
“I’m sure.” The woman stepped closer. “I’ve been waiting for you to turn up again.”
“You should stay away, if you value your life.” Veil started off through the market.
The short woman scrambled after her. “My name is Ishnah. I’m an excellent writer. I can take dictations. I have experience moving in the market underground.”
“You want to be my ward?”
“Ward?” The young woman laughed. “What are we, lighteyes? I want to join you.”
The Ghostbloods, of course. “We’re not recruiting.”
“Please.” She took Veil by the arm. “Please. The world is wrong now. Nothing makes sense. But you… your group… you know things. I don’t want to be blind anymore.”
Shallan hesitated. She could understand that desire to do something, rather than just feeling the world tremble and shake. But the Ghostbloods were despicable. This woman would not find what she desired among them. And if she did, then she was not the sort of person that Shallan would want to add to Mraize’s quiver.
“No,” Shallan said. “Do the smart thing and forget about me and my organization.”
She pulled out of the woman’s grip and hurried away through the bustling market.
Chapter 26
Blackthorn Unleashed
TWENTY-NINE YEARS AGO
Incense burned in a brazier as large as a boulder. Dalinar sniffled as Evi threw a handful of tiny papers—each folded and inscribed with a very small glyph—into the brazier. Fragrant smoke washed over him, then whipped in the other direction as winds ripped through the warcamp, carrying windspren like lines of light.
Evi bowed her head before the brazier. She had strange beliefs, his betrothed. Among her people, simple glyphwards weren’t enough for prayers; you needed to burn something more pungent. While she spoke of Jezrien and Kelek, she said their names strangely: Yaysi and Kellai. And she made no mention of the Almighty—instead she spoke of something called the One, a heretical tradition the ardents told him came from Iri.
Dalinar bowed his head for a prayer. Let me be stronger than those who would kill me. Simple and to the point, the kind he figured the Almighty would prefer. He didn’t feel like having Evi write it out.
“The One watch you, near-husband,” Evi murmured. “And soften your temper.” Her accent, to which he was now accustomed, was thicker than her brother’s.
“Soften it? Evi, that’s not the point of battle.”
“You needn’t kill in anger, Dalinar. If you must fight, do it knowing that each death wounds the One. For we are all people in Yaysi’s sight.”
“Yeah, all right,” Dalinar said.
The ardents didn’t seem to mind that he was marrying someone half pagan. “It is wisdom to bring her to Vorin truth,” Jevena—Gavilar’s head ardent—had told him. Similar to how she’d spoken of his conquest. “Your sword will bring strength and glory to the Almighty.”
Idly, he wondered what it would take to actually earn the ardents’ displeasure.
“Be a man and not a beast, Dalinar,” Evi said, then pulled close to him, setting her head on his shoulder and encouraging him to wrap his arms around her.
He did so with a limp gesture. Storms, he could hear the soldiers snicker as they passed by. The Blackthorn, being consoled before battle? Publicly hugging and acting lovey?
Evi turned her head toward him for a kiss, and he presented a chaste one, their lips barely touching. She accepted that, smiling. And she did have a beautiful smile. Life would have been a lot easier for him if Evi would have just been willing to move along with the marriage. But her traditions demanded a long engagement, and her brother kept trying to get new provisions into the contract.
Dalinar stomped away. In his pocket he held another glyphward: one provided by Navani, who obviously worried about the accuracy of Evi’s foreign script. He felt at the smooth paper, and didn’t burn the prayer.
The stone ground beneath his feet was pocked with tiny holes—the pinpricks of hiding grass. As he passed the tents he could see it properly, covering the plain outside, waving in the wind. Tall stuff, almost as high as his waist. He’d never seen grass that tall in Kholin lands.
Across the plain, an impressive force gathered: an army larger than any they’d faced. His heart jumped in anticipation. After two years of political maneuvering, here they were. A real battle with a real army.
Win or lose, this was the fight for the kingdom. The sun was on its way up, and the armies had arrayed themselves north and south, so neither would have it in their eyes.
Dalinar hastened to his armorers’ tent, and emerged a short time later in his Plate. He climbed carefully into the saddle as one of the grooms brought his horse. The large black beast wasn’t fast, but it could carry a man in Shardplate. Dalinar guided the horse past ranks of soldiers—spearmen, archers, lighteyed heavy infantry, even a nice group of fifty cavalrymen under Ilamar, with hooks and ropes for attacking Shardbearers. Anticipationspren waved like banners among them all.
Dalinar still smelled incense when he found his brother, geared up and mounted, patrolling the front lines. Dalinar trotted up beside Gavilar.
“Your young friend didn’t show for the battle,” Gavilar noted.
“Sebarial?” Dalinar said. “He’s not my friend.”
“There’s a hole in the enemy line, still waiting for him,” Gavilar said, pointing. “Reports say he had a problem with his supply lines.”
“Lies. He’s a coward. If he’d arrived, he’d have had to actually pick a side.”
They rode past Tearim, Gavilar’s captain of the guard, who wore Dalinar’s extra Plate for this battle. Technically that still belonged to Evi. Not Toh, but Evi herself, which was strange. What would a woman do with Shardplate?
Give it to a husband, apparently. Tearim saluted. He was capable with Shards, having trained, as did many aspiring lighteyes, with borrowed sets.
“You’ve done well, Dalinar,” Gavilar said as they rode past. “That Plate will serve us today.”
Dalinar made no reply. Even though Evi and her brother had delayed such a painfully long time to even agree to the betrothal, Dalinar had done his duty. He just wished he felt more for the woman. Some passion, some true emotion. He couldn’t laugh without her seeming confused by the conversation. He couldn’t boast without her being disappointed in his bloodlust. She always wanted him to hold her, as if being alone for one storming minute would make her wither and blow away. And…
“Ho!” one of the scouts called from a wooden mobile tower. She pointed, her voice distant. “Ho, there!”
Dalinar turned, expecting an advance attack from the enemy. But no, Kalanor’s army was still deploying. It wasn’t men that had attracted the scout’s attention, but horses. A small herd of them, eleven or twelve in number, galloping across the battlefield. Proud, majestic.
“Ryshadium,” Gavilar whispered. “It’s rare they roam this far east.”
Dalinar swallowed an order to round up the beasts. Ryshadium? Yes… he could see the spren trailing after them in the air. Musicspren, for some reason. Made no storming sense. Well, no use trying to capture the beasts. They couldn’t be held unless they chose a rider.
“I want you to do something for me today, Brother,” Gavilar said. “Highprince Kalanor himself needs to fall. As long as he lives, there will be resistance. If he dies, his line goes with him. His cousin, Loradar Vamah, can seize power.”
“Will Loradar swear to you?”
“I’m certain of it,” Gavilar said.
“Then I’ll find Kalanor,” Dalinar said, “and end this.”
“He won’t join the battle easily, knowing him. But he’s a Shardbearer. And so…”
“So we need to force him to engage.” Gavilar smiled.
“What?” Dalinar said.
“I’m simply pleased to see you talking of tactics.”
“I’m not an idiot,” Dalinar growled. He always paid attention to the tactics of a battle; he simply wasn’t one for endless meetings and jaw wagging.
Though… even those seemed more tolerable these days. Perhaps it was familiarity. Or maybe it was Gavilar’s talk of forging a dynasty. It was the increasingly obvious truth that this campaign—now stretching over many years—was no quick bash and grab.
“Bring me Kalanor, Brother,” Gavilar said. “We need the Blackthorn today.”
“All you need do is unleash him.”
“Ha! As if anyone existed who could leash him in the first place.”
Isn’t that what you’ve been trying to do? Dalinar thought immediately. Marrying me off, talking about how we have to be “civilized” now? Highlighting everything I do wrong as the things we must expunge?
He bit his tongue, and they finished their ride down the lines. They parted with a nod, and Dalinar rode over to join his elites.
“Orders, sir?” asked Rien.
“Stay out of my way,” Dalinar said, lowering his faceplate. The Shardplate helm sealed closed, and a hush fell over the elites. Dalinar summoned Oathbringer, the sword of a fallen king, and waited. The enemy had come to stop Gavilar’s continued pillage of the countryside; they would have to make the first move.
These last few months spent attacking isolated, unprotected towns had made for unfulfilling battles—but had also put Kalanor in a terrible position. If he sat back in his strongholds, he allowed more of his vassals to be destroyed. Already those started to wonder why they paid Kalanor taxes. A handful had preemptively sent messengers to Gavilar saying they would not resist.
The region was on the brink of flipping to the Kholins. And so, Highprince Kalanor had been forced to leave his fortifications to engage here. Dalinar shifted on his horse, waiting, planning. The moment came soon enough; Kalanor’s forces started across the plain in a cautious wave, shields raised toward the sky.
Gavilar’s archers released flights of arrows. Kalanor’s men were well trained; they maintained their formations beneath the deadly hail. Eventually they met Kholin heavy infantry: a block of men so armored that it might as well have been solid stone. At the same time, mobile archer units sprang out to the sides. Lightly armored, they were fast. If the Kholins won this battle—and Dalinar was confident they would—it would be because of the newer battlefield tactics they’d been exploring.
The enemy army found itself flanked—arrows pounding the sides of their assault blocks. Their lines stretched, the infantry trying to reach the archers, but that weakened the central block, which suffered a beating from the heavy infantry. Standard spearman blocks engaged enemy units as much to position them as to do them harm.
This all happened on the scale of the battlefield. Dalinar had to climb off his horse and send for a groom to walk the animal as he waited. Inside, Dalinar fought back the Thrill, which urged him to ride in immediately.
Eventually, he picked a section of Kholin troops who were faring poorly against the enemy block. Good enough. He remounted and kicked his horse into a gallop. This was the right moment. He could feel it. He needed to strike now, when the battle was pivoting between victory and loss, to draw out his enemy.
Grass wriggled and pulled back in a wave before him. Like subjects bowing. This might be the end, his final battle in the conquest of Alethkar. What happened to him after this? Endless feasts with politicians? A brother who refused to look elsewhere for battle?
Dalinar opened himself to the Thrill and drove away such worries. He struck the line of enemy troops like a highstorm hitting a stack of papers. Soldiers scattered before him, shouting. Dalinar laid about with his Shardblade, killing dozens on one side, then the other.
Eyes burned, arms fell limp. Dalinar breathed in the joy of the conquest, the narcotic beauty of destruction. None could stand before him; all were tinder and he the flame. The soldier block should have been able to band together and rush him, but they were too frightened.
And why shouldn’t they be? People spoke of common men bringing down a Shardbearer, but surely that was a fabrication. A conceit intended to make men fight back, to save Shardbearers from having to hunt them down.
He grinned as his horse stumbled trying to cross the bodies piling around it. Dalinar kicked the beast forward, and it leaped—but as it landed, something gave. The creature screamed and collapsed, dumping him.
He sighed, shoving aside the horse and standing. He’d broken its back; Shardplate was not meant for such common beasts.
One group of soldiers tried a counterattack. Brave, but stupid. Dalinar felled them with broad sweeps of his Shardblade. Next, a lighteyed offi er organized his men to come press and try to trap Dalinar, if not with their skill, then their weight of bodies. He spun among them, Plate lending him energy, Blade granting him precision, and the Thrill… the Thrill giving him purpose.
In moments like this, he could see why he had been created. He was wasted listening to men blab. He was wasted doing anything but this: providing the ultimate test of men’s abilities, proving them, demanding their lives at the edge of a sword. He sent them to the Tranquiline Halls primed and ready to fight.
He was not a man. He was judgment.
Enthralled, he cut down foe after foe, sensing a strange rhythm to the fighting, as if the blows of his sword needed to fall to the dictates of some unseen beat. A redness grew at the edges of his vision, eventually covering the landscape like a veil. It seemed to shift and move like the coils of an eel, trembling to the beats of his sword.
He was furious when a calling voice distracted him from the fight. “Dalinar!”
He ignored it.
“Brightlord Dalinar! Blackthorn!”
That voice was like a screeching cremling, playing its song inside his helm. He felled a pair of swordsmen. They’d been lighteyed, but their eyes had burned away, and you could no longer tell.
“Blackthorn!”
Bah! Dalinar spun toward the sound.
A man stood nearby, wearing Kholin blue. Dalinar raised his Shardblade. The man backed away, raising hands with no weapon, still shouting Dalinar’s name.
I know him. He’s… Kadash? One of the captains among his elites. Dalinar lowered his sword and shook his head, trying to get the buzzing sound out of his ears. Only then did he see—really see—what surrounded him.
The dead. Hundreds upon hundreds of them, with shriveled coals for eyes, their armor and weapons sheared but their bodies eerily untouched. Almighty above… how many had he killed? He raised his hand to his helm, turning and looking about him. Timid blades of grass crept up among the bodies, pushing between arms, fingers, beside heads. He’d blanketed the plain so thoroughly with corpses that the grass had a difficult time finding places to rise.
Dalinar grinned in satisfaction, then grew chill. A few of those bodies with burned eyes—three men he could spot—wore blue. His own men, bearing the armband of the elites.
“Brightlord,” Kadash said. “Blackthorn, your task is accomplished!” He pointed toward a troop of horsemen charging across the plain. They carried the silver-on-red flag bearing a glyphpair of two mountains. Left no choice, Highprince Kalanor had committed to the battle. Dalinar had destroyed several companies on his own; only another Shardbearer could stop him.
“Excellent,” Dalinar said. He pulled off his helm and took a cloth from Kadash, using it to wipe his face. A waterskin followed. Dalinar drank the entire thing.
Dalinar tossed away the empty skin, his heart racing, the Thrill thrumming within. “Pull back the elites. Do not engage unless I fall.” Dalinar pulled his helm back on, and felt the comforting tightness as the latches cinched it into place.
“Yes, Brightlord.”
“Gather those of us who… fell,” Dalinar said, waving toward the Kholin dead. “Make certain they, and theirs, are cared for.”
“Of course, sir.”
Dalinar dashed toward the oncoming force, his Shardplate crunching against stones. He felt sad to have to engage a Shardbearer, instead of continuing his fight against the ordinary men. No more laying waste; he now had only one man to kill.
He could vaguely remember a time when facing lesser challenges hadn’t sated him as much as a good fight against someone capable. What had changed?
His run took him toward one of the rock formations on the eastern side of the field—a group of enormous spires, weathered and jagged, like a row of stone stakes. As he entered the shadows, he could hear fighting from the other side. Portions of the armies had broken off and tried to flank each other by rounding the formations.
At their base, Kalanor’s honor guard split, revealing the highprince himself on horseback. His Plate was overlaid with a silver coloring, perhaps steel or silver leaf. Dalinar had ordered his Plate buff d back to its normal slate grey; he’d never understood why people would want to “augment” the natural majesty of Shardplate.
Kalanor’s horse was a tall, majestic animal, brilliant white with a long mane. It carried the Shardbearer with ease. A Ryshadium. Yet Kalanor dismounted. He patted the animal fondly on the neck, then stepped forward to meet Dalinar, Shardblade appearing in his hand.
“Blackthorn,” he called. “I hear you’ve been single-handedly destroying my army.”
“They fight for the Tranquiline Halls now.”
“Would that you had joined to lead them.”
“Someday,” Dalinar said. “When I am too old and weak to fight here, I’ll welcome being sent.”
“Curious, how quickly tyrants grow religious. It must be convenient to tell yourself that your murders belong to the Almighty instead.”
“They’d better not belong to him!” Dalinar said. “I worked hard for those kills, Kalanor. The Almighty can’t have them; he can merely credit them to me when weighing my soul!”
“Then let them weigh you down to Damnation itself.” Kalanor waved back his honor guard, who seemed eager to throw themselves at Dalinar. Alas, the highprince was determined to fight on his own. He swiped with his sword, a long, thin Shardblade with a large crossguard and glyphs down its length. “If I kill you, Blackthorn, what then?”
“Then Sadeas gets a crack at you.”
“No honor on this battlefield, I see.”
“Oh, don’t pretend you are any better,” Dalinar said. “I know what you did to rise to your throne. You can’t pretend to be a peacemaker now.”
“Considering what you did to the peacemakers,” Kalanor said, “I’ll count myself lucky.”
Dalinar leaped forward, falling into Bloodstance—a stance for someone who didn’t care if he got hit. He was younger, more agile than his opponent. He counted on being able to swing faster, harder.
Strangely, Kalanor chose Bloodstance himself. The two clashed, bashing their swords against one other in a pattern that sent them twisting about in a quick shuffle of footings—each trying to hit the same section of Plate repeatedly, to open a hole to flesh.
Dalinar grunted, batting away his opponent’s Shardblade. Kalanor was old, but skilled. He had an uncanny ability to pull back before Dalinar’s strikes, deflecting some of the force of the impact, preventing the metal from breaking.
After furiously exchanging blows for several minutes, both men stepped back, a web of cracks on the left sides of their Plate leaking Stormlight into the air.
“It will happen to you too, Blackthorn,” Kalanor growled. “If you do kill me, someone will rise up and take your kingdom from you. It will never last.”
Dalinar came in for a power swing. One step forward, then a twist all the way about. Kalanor struck him on the right side—a solid hit, but insignificant, as it was on the wrong side. Dalinar, on the other hand, came in with a sweeping stroke that hummed in the air. Kalanor tried to move with the blow, but this one had too much momentum.
The Shardblade connected, destroying the section of Plate in an explosion of molten sparks. Kalanor grunted and stumbled to the side, nearly tripping. He lowered his hand to cover the hole in his armor, which continued to leak Stormlight at the edges. Half the breastplate had shattered.
“You fight like you lead, Kholin,” he growled. “Reckless.”
Dalinar ignored the taunt and charged instead.
Kalanor ran away, plowing through his honor guard in his haste, shoving some aside and sending them tumbling, bones breaking.
Dalinar almost caught him, but Kalanor reached the edge of the large rock formation. He dropped his Blade—it puff d away to mist—and sprang, grabbing hold of an outcropping. He started to climb.
He reached the base of the natural tower moments later. Boulders littered the ground nearby; in the mysterious way of the storms, this had probably been a hillside until recently. The highstorm had ripped most of it away, leaving this unlikely formation poking into the air. It would probably soon get blown down.
Dalinar dropped his Blade and leapt, snagging an outcropping, his fingers grinding on stone. He dangled before getting a footing, then proceeded to climb up the steep wall after Kalanor. The other Shardbearer tried to kick rocks down, but they bounced off Dalinar harmlessly.
By the time Dalinar caught up, they had climbed some fifty feet. Down below, soldiers gathered and stared, pointing.
Dalinar reached for his opponent’s leg, but Kalanor yanked it out of the way and then—still hanging from the stones—summoned his Blade and began swiping down. After getting battered on the helm a few times, Dalinar growled and let himself slide down out of the way.
Kalanor gouged a few chunks from the wall to send them clattering at Dalinar, then dismissed his Blade and continued upward.
Dalinar followed more carefully, climbing along a parallel route to the side. He eventually reached the top and peeked over the edge. The summit of the formation was some flat-topped, broken peaks that didn’t look terribly sturdy. Kalanor sat on one of them, Blade across one leg, his other foot dangling.
Dalinar climbed up a safe distance from his enemy, then summoned Oathbringer. Storms. There was barely enough room up here to stand. Wind buffeted him, a windspren zipping around to one side.
“Nice view,” Kalanor said. Though the forces had started out with equal numbers, below them were far more fallen men in silver and red strewn across the grassland than there were men in blue. “I wonder how many kings get such prime seating to watch their own downfall.”
“You were never a king,” Dalinar said.
Kalanor stood and lifted his Blade, extending it in one hand, point toward Dalinar’s chest. “That, Kholin, is all tied up in bearing and assumption. Shall we?”
Clever, bringing me up here, Dalinar thought. Dalinar had the obvious edge in a fair duel—and so Kalanor brought random chance into the fight. Winds, unsteady footing, a plunge that would kill even a Shardbearer.
At the very least, this would be a novel challenge. Dalinar stepped forward carefully. Kalanor changed to Windstance, a more flowing, sweeping style of fighting. Dalinar chose Stonestance for the solid footing and straightforward power.
They traded blows, shuffling back and forth along the line of small peaks. Each step scraped chips off the stones, sending them tumbling down. Kalanor obviously wanted to draw out this fight, to maximize the time for Dalinar to slip.
Dalinar tested back and forth, letting Kalanor fall into a rhythm, then broke it to strike with everything he had, battering down in overhand blows. Each fanned something burning inside of Dalinar, a thirst that his earlier rampage hadn’t sated. The Thrill wanted more.
Dalinar scored a series of hits on Kalanor’s helm, backing him up to the edge, one step away from a fall. The last blow destroyed the helm entirely, exposing an aged face, clean-shaven, mostly bald.
Kalanor growled, teeth clenched, and struck back at Dalinar with unexpected ferocity. Dalinar met it Blade with Blade, then stepped forward to turn it into a shoving match—their weapons locked, neither with room to maneuver.
Dalinar met his enemy’s gaze. In those light grey eyes, he saw something. Excitement, energy. A familiar bloodlust.
Kalanor felt the Thrill too.
Dalinar had heard others speak of it, this euphoria of the contest. The secret Alethi edge. But seeing it right there, in the eyes of a man trying to kill him, made Dalinar furious. He should not have to share such an intimate feeling with this man.
He grunted and—in a surge of strength—tossed Kalanor back. The man stumbled, then slipped. He instantly dropped his Shardblade and, in a frantic motion, managed to grab the rock lip as he fell.
Helmless, Kalanor dangled. The sense of the Thrill in his eyes faded to panic. “Mercy,” he whispered.
“This is a mercy,” Dalinar said, then struck him straight through the face with his Shardblade.
Kalanor’s eyes burned from grey to black as he dropped off the spire, trailing twin lines of black smoke. The corpse scraped rock before hitting far below, on the far side of the rock formation, away from the main army.
Dalinar breathed out, then sank down, wrung out. Shadows stretched long across the land as the sun met the horizon. It had been a fine fight. He’d accomplished what he’d wanted. He’d conquered all who stood before him.
And yet he felt empty. A voice within him kept saying, “That’s it? Weren’t we promised more?”
Down below, a group in Kalanor’s colors made for the fallen body. The honor guard had seen where their brightlord had fallen? Dalinar felt a spike of outrage. That was his kill, his victory. He’d won those Shards!
He scrambled down in a reckless half-climb. The descent was a blur; he was seeing red by the time he hit the ground. One soldier had the Blade; others were arguing over the Plate, which was broken and mangled.
Dalinar attacked, killing six in moments, including the one with the Blade. Two others managed to run, but they were slower than he was. Dalinar caught one by the shoulder, whipping him around and smashing him down into the stones. He killed the last with a sweep of Oathbringer.
More. Where were more? Dalinar saw no men in red. Only some in blue—a beleaguered set of soldiers who flew no flag. In their center, however, walked a man in Shardplate. Gavilar rested here from the battle, in a place behind the lines, to take stock.
The hunger inside of Dalinar grew. The Thrill came upon him in a rush, overwhelming. Shouldn’t the strongest rule? Why should he sit back so often, listening to men chat instead of war?
There. There was the man who held what he wanted. A throne… a throne and more. The woman Dalinar should have been able to claim. A love he’d been forced to abandon, for what reason?
No, his fighting today was not done. This was not all!
He started toward the group, his mind fuzzy, his insides feeling a deep ache. Passionspren—like tiny crystalline flakes—dropped around him.
Shouldn’t he have passion?
Shouldn’t he be rewarded for all he had accomplished?
Gavilar was weak. He intended to give up his momentum and rest upon what Dalinar had won for him. Well, there was one way to make certain the war continued. One way to keep the Thrill alive.
One way for Dalinar to get everything he deserved.
He was running. Some of the men in Gavilar’s group raised hands in welcome. Weak. No weapons presented against him! He could slaughter them all before they knew what had happened. They deserved it! Dalinar deserved to—
Gavilar turned toward him, pulling free his helm and smiling an open, honest grin.
Dalinar pulled up, stopping with a lurch. He stared at Gavilar, his brother.
Oh, Stormfather, Dalinar thought. What am I doing?
He let the Blade slip from his fingers and vanish. Gavilar strode up, unable to read Dalinar’s horrified expression behind his helm. As a blessing, no shamespren appeared, though he should have earned a legion of them in that moment.
“Brother!” Gavilar said. “Have you seen? The day is won! Highprince Ruthar brought down Gallam, winning Shards for his son. Talanor took a Blade, and I hear you finally drew out Kalanor. Please tell me he didn’t escape you.”
“He…” Dalinar licked his lips, breathing in and out. “He is dead.” Dalinar pointed toward the fallen form, visible only as a bit of silvery metal shining amid the shadows of the rubble.
“Dalinar, you wonderful, terrible man!” Gavilar turned toward his soldiers. “Hail the Blackthorn, men. Hail him!” Gloryspren burst around Gavilar, golden orbs that rotated around his head like a crown.
Dalinar blinked amid their cheering, and suddenly felt a shame so deep he wanted to crumple up. This time, a single spren—like a falling petal from a blossom—drifted down around him.
He had to do something. “Blade and Plate,” Dalinar said to Gavilar urgently. “I won them both, but I give them to you. A gift. For your children.”
“Ha!” Gavilar said. “Jasnah? What would she do with Shards? No, no. You—”
“Keep them,” Dalinar pled, grabbing his brother by the arm. “Please.”
“Very well, if you insist,” Gavilar said. “I suppose you do already have Plate to give your heir.”
“If I have one.”
“You will!” Gavilar said, sending some men to recover Kalanor’s Blade and Plate. “Ha! Toh will have to agree, finally, that we can protect his line. I suspect the wedding will happen within the month!”
As would, likely, the official re-coronation where—for the first time in centuries—all ten highprinces of Alethkar would bow before a single king.
Dalinar sat down on a stone, pulling free his helm and accepting water from a young messenger woman. Never again, he swore to himself. I give way for Gavilar in all things. Let him have the throne, let him have love.
I must never be king.
Chapter 27
Playing Pretend
I will confess my heresy. I do not back down from the things I have said, regardless of what the ardents demand.
—From Oathbringer, preface
The sounds of arguing politicians drifted to Shallan’s ears as she sketched. She sat on a stone seat at the back of the large meeting room near the top of the tower. She’d brought a pillow to sit on, and Pattern buzzed happily on the little pedestal.
She sat with her feet up, thighs supporting her drawing pad, stockinged toes curling over the rim of the bench in front of her. Not the most dignified of positions; Radiant would be mortified. At the front of the auditorium, Dalinar stood before the glowing map that Shallan and he—somehow combining their powers—could create. He’d invited Taravangian, the highprinces, their wives, and their head scribes. Elhokar had come with Kalami, who was scribing for him lately.
Renarin stood beside his father in his Bridge Four uniform, looking uncomfortable—so basically, same as usual. Adolin lounged nearby, arms folded, occasionally whispering a joke toward one of the men of Bridge Four.
Radiant should be down there, engaging in this important discussion about the future of the world. Instead, Shallan drew. The light was just so good up here, with these broad glass windows. She was tired of feeling trapped in the dark hallways of the lower levels, always feeling that something was watching her.
She finished her sketch, then tipped it toward Pattern, holding the sketchbook with her sleeved safehand. He rippled up from his post to inspect her drawing: the slot obstructed by a mashed-up figure with bulging, inhuman eyes.
“Mmmm,” Pattern said. “Yes, that is correct.”
“It has to be some kind of spren, right?”
“I feel I should know,” Pattern said. “This… this is a thing from long ago. Long, long ago…”
Shallan shivered. “Why is it here?”
“I cannot say,” Pattern replied. “It is not a thing of us. It is of him.”
“An ancient spren of Odium. Delightful.” Shallan flipped the page over the top of her sketchbook and started on another drawing.
The others spoke further of their coalition, Thaylenah and Azir recurring as the most important countries to convince, now that Iri had made it completely clear they had joined the enemy.
“Brightness Kalami,” Dalinar was saying. “The last report. It listed a large gathering of the enemy in Marat, was it?”
“Yes, Brightlord,” the scribe said from her position at the reading desk. “Southern Marat. You hypothesized it was the low population of the region that induced the Voidbringers to gather there.”
“The Iriali have taken the chance to strike eastward, as they’ve always wanted to,” Dalinar said. “They’ll seize Rira and Babatharnam. Meanwhile, areas like Triax—around the southern half of central Roshar—continue to go dark.”
Brightness Kalami nodded, and Shallan tapped her lips with her drawing pencil. The question raised an implication. How could cities go completely dark? These days major cities—particularly ports—would have hundreds of spanreeds in operation. Every lighteyes or merchant wanting to watch prices or keep in contact with distant estates would have one.
Those in Kholinar had started working as soon as the highstorms returned—and then they’d been cut off one by one. Their last reports claimed that armies were gathering near the city. Then… nothing. The enemy seemed to be able to locate spanreeds somehow.
At least they’d finally gotten word from Kaladin. A single glyph for time, implying they should be patient. He’d been unable to get to a town to find a woman to scribe for him, and just wanted them to know he was safe. Assuming someone else hadn’t gotten the spanreed, and faked the glyph to put them off.
“The enemy is making a play for the Oathgates,” Dalinar decided. “All of their motions, save for the gathering in Marat, indicate this. My instincts say that army is planning to strike back at Azir, or even to cross and try to assault Jah Keved.”
“I trust Dalinar’s assessment,” Highprince Aladar added. “If he believes this course to be likely, we should listen.”
“Bah,” said Highprince Ruthar. The oily man leaned against the wall across from the others, barely paying attention. “Who cares what you say, Aladar? It’s amazing you can even see, considering the place you’ve gone and stuck your head these days.”
Aladar spun and thrust his hand to the side in a summoning posture. Dalinar stopped him, as Ruthar must have known that he would. Shallan shook her head, letting herself instead be drawn farther into her sketching. A few creationspren appeared at the top of her drawing pad, one a tiny shoe, the other a pencil like the one she used.
Her sketch was of Highprince Sadeas, drawn without a specific Memory. She’d never wanted to add him to her collection. She finished the quick sketch, then flipped to a sketch of Brightlord Perel, the other man they’d found dead in the hallways of Urithiru. She’d tried to re-create his face without wounds.
She flipped back and forth between the two. They do look similar, Shallan decided. Same bulbous features. Similar build. Her next two pages were pictures of the two Horneaters. Those two looked roughly similar as well. And the two murdered women? Why would the man who strangled his wife confess to that murder, but then swear he hadn’t killed the second woman? One was already enough to get you executed.
That spren is mimicking the violence, she thought. Killing or wounding in the same way as attacks from previous days. A kind of… impersonation?
Pattern hummed softly, drawing her attention. Shallan looked up to see someone strolling in her direction: a middle-aged woman with short black hair cut almost to the scalp. She wore a long skirt and a buttoning shirt with a vest. Thaylen merchant clothing.
“What is that you’re sketching, Brightness?” the woman asked in Veden.
Hearing her own language so suddenly was strange to Shallan, and her mind took a moment to sort through the words. “People,” Shallan said, closing her drawing pad. “I enjoy figure drawing. You’re the one who came with Taravangian. His Surgebinder.”
“Malata,” she said. “Though I am not his. I came to him for convenience, as Spark suggested we might look to Urithiru, now that it has been rediscovered.” She surveyed the large auditorium. Shallan could see no sign of her spren. “Do you suppose we really filled this entire chamber?”
“Ten orders,” Shallan said, “with hundreds of people in most. Yes, I’d assume we could fill it—in fact, I doubt everyone belonging to the orders could fit in here.”
“And now there are four of us,” she said idly, eyeing Renarin, who stood stiff beside his father, sweating beneath the scrutiny as people occasionally glanced at him.
“Five,” Shallan said. “There’s a flying bridgeman out there somewhere— and those are only the ones of us gathered here. There are bound to be others like you, who are still looking for a way to reach us.”
“If they want to,” Malata said. “Things don’t have to be the way they were. Why should they? It didn’t work out so well last time for the Radiants, did it?”
“Maybe,” Shallan said. “But maybe this isn’t the time to experiment either. The Desolation has started again. We could do worse than rely upon the past to survive this.”
“Curious,” the woman said, “that we have only the word of a few stuffy Alethi about this entire ‘Desolation’ business, eh sister?”
Shallan blinked at the casual way it was said, along with a wink. Malata smiled and sauntered back toward the front of the room.
“Well,” Shallan whispered, “she’s annoying.”
“Mmm…” Pattern said. “It will be worse when she starts destroying things.”
“Destroying?”
“Dustbringer,” Pattern said. “Her spren… mmm… they like to break what is around them. They want to know what is inside.”
“Pleasant,” Shallan said, as she flipped back through her drawings. The thing in the crack. The dead men. This should be enough to present to Dalinar and Adolin, which she planned to do today, now that she had her sketches done.
And after that?
I need to catch it, she thought. I watch the market. Eventually someone will be hurt. And a few days later, this thing will try to copy that attack.
Perhaps she could patrol the unexplored parts of the tower? Look for it, instead of waiting for it to attack?
The dark corridors. Each tunnel like a drawing’s impossible line…
The room had grown quiet. Shallan shook out of her reverie and looked up to see what was happening: Ialai Sadeas had arrived at the meeting, carried in a palanquin. She was accompanied by a familiar figure: Meridas Amaram was a tall man, tan eyed, with a square face and solid figure. He was also a murderer, a thief, and a traitor. He had been caught trying to steal a Shardblade—proof that what Captain Kaladin said about him was true.
Shallan gritted her teeth, but found her anger… cool. Not gone. No, she would not forgive this man for killing Helaran. But the uncomfortable truth was that she didn’t know why, or how, her brother had fallen to Amaram. She could almost hear Jasnah whispering to her: Don’t judge without more details.
Below, Adolin had risen and stepped toward Amaram, right into the center of the illusory map, breaking its surface, causing waves of glowing Stormlight to ripple across it. He stared murder at Amaram, though Dalinar rested his hand on his son’s shoulder, holding him back.
“Brightness Sadeas,” Dalinar said. “I am glad you have agreed to join the meeting. We could use your wisdom in our planning.”
“I’m not here for your plans, Dalinar,” Ialai said. “I’m here because it was a convenient place to find you all together. I’ve been in conference with my advisors back at our estates, and the consensus is that the heir, my nephew, is too young. This is no time for House Sadeas to be without leadership, so I’ve made a decision.”
“Ialai,” Dalinar said, stepping into the illusion beside his son. “Let’s talk about this. Please. I have an idea that, though untraditional, might—”
“Tradition is our ally, Dalinar,” Ialai said. “I don’t think you’ve ever understood that as you should. Highmarshal Amaram is our house’s most decorated and well-regarded general. He is beloved of our soldiers, and known the world over. I name him regent and heir to the house title. He is, for all intents, Highprince Sadeas now. I would ask the king to ratify this.”
Shallan’s breath caught. King Elhokar looked up from his seat, where he—seemingly—had been lost in thought. “Is this legal?”
“Yes,” Navani said, arms folded.
“Dalinar,” Amaram said, stepping down several of the steps toward the rest of them at the bottom of the auditorium. His voice gave Shallan chills. That refined diction, that perfect face, that crisp uniform… this man was what every soldier aspired to be.
I’m not the only one who is good at playing pretend, she thought.
“I hope,” Amaram continued, “our recent… friction will not prevent us from working together for the needs of Alethkar. I have spoken to Brightness Ialai, and I think I have persuaded her that our differences are secondary to the greater good of Roshar.”
“The greater good,” Dalinar said. “You think you are one to speak about what is good?”
“Everything I’ve done is for the greater good, Dalinar,” Amaram said, his voice strained. “Everything. Please. I know you intend to pursue legal action against me. I will stand at trial, but let us postpone that until after Roshar has been saved.”
Dalinar regarded Amaram for an extended, tense moment. Then he finally looked to his nephew and nodded in a curt gesture.
“The throne acknowledges your act of regency, Brightness,” Elhokar said to Ialai. “My mother will wish a formal writ, sealed and witnessed.”
“Already done,” Ialai said.
Dalinar met the eyes of Amaram across the floating map. “Highprince,” Dalinar finally said.
“Highprince,” Amaram said back, tipping his head.
“Bastard,” Adolin said.
Dalinar winced visibly, then pointed toward the exit. “Perhaps, son, you should take a moment to yourself.”
“Yeah. Sure.” Adolin pulled out of his father’s grip, stalking toward the exit.
Shallan thought only a moment, then grabbed her shoes and drawing pad and hurried after him. She caught up to Adolin in the hallway outside, near where the palanquins for the women were parked, and took his arm.
“Hey,” she said softly.
He glanced at her, and his expression softened.
“You want to talk?” Shallan asked. “You seem angrier about him than you were before.”
“No,” Adolin muttered, “I’m just annoyed. We’re finally rid of Sadeas, and now that takes his place?” He shook his head. “When I was young, I used to look up to him. I started getting suspicious when I was older, but I guess part of me still wanted him to be like they said. A man above all the pettiness and the politics. A true soldier.”
Shallan wasn’t certain what she thought of the idea of a “true soldier” being the type who didn’t care about politics. Shouldn’t the why of what a man was doing be important to him?
Soldiers didn’t talk that way. There was some ideal she couldn’t quite grasp, a kind of cult of obedience—of caring only about the battlefield and the challenge it presented.
They walked onto the lift, and Adolin fished out a free gemstone—a little diamond not surrounded by a sphere—and placed it into a slot along the railing. Stormlight began to drain from the stone, and the balcony shook, then slowly began to descend. Removing the gem would tell the lift to stop at the next floor. A simple lever, pushed one way or the other, would determine whether the lift crawled upward or downward.
They descended past the top tier, and Adolin took up position by the railing, looking out over the central shaft with the window all along one side. They were starting to call it the atrium—though it was an atrium that ran up dozens upon dozens of floors.
“Kaladin’s not going to like this,” Adolin said. “Amaram as a highprince? The two of us spent weeks in jail because of the things that man did.”
“I think Amaram killed my brother.”
Adolin wheeled around to stare at her. “What?”
“Amaram has a Shardblade,” Shallan said. “I saw it previously in the hands of my brother, Helaran. He was older than I am, and left Jah Keved years ago. From what I can gather, he and Amaram fought at some point, and Amaram killed him—taking the Blade.”
“Shallan… that Blade. You know where Amaram got that, right?” “On the battlefield?”
“From Kaladin.” Adolin raised his hand to his head. “The bridgeboy insisted that he’d saved Amaram’s life by killing a Shardbearer. Amaram then killed Kaladin’s squad and took the Shards for himself. That’s basically the entire reason the two hate each other.”
Shallan’s throat grew tight. “Oh.”
Tuck it away. Don’t think about it.
“Shallan,” Adolin said, stepping toward her. “Why would your brother try to kill Amaram? Did he maybe know the highlord was corrupt? Storms! Kaladin didn’t know any of that. Poor bridgeboy. Everyone would have been better off if he’d just let Amaram die.”
Don’t confront it. Don’t think about it.
“Yeah,” she said. “Huh.”
“But how did your brother know?” Adolin said, pacing across the balcony. “Did he say anything?”
“We didn’t talk much,” Shallan said, numb. “He left when I was young. I didn’t know him well.”
Anything to get off this topic. For this was something she could still tuck away in the back of her brain. She did not want to think about Kaladin and Helaran.…
It was a long, quiet ride to the bottom floors of the tower. Adolin wanted to go visit his father’s horse again, but she wasn’t interested in standing around smelling horse dung. She got off on the second level to make her way toward her rooms.
Secrets. There are more important things in this world, Helaran had said to her father. More important even than you and your crimes.
Mraize knew something about this. He was withholding the secrets from her like sweets to entice a child to obedience. But all he wanted her to do was investigate the oddities in Urithiru. That was a good thing, wasn’t it? She’d have done it anyway.
Shallan meandered through the hallways, following a path where Sebarial’s workers had affixed some sphere lanterns to hooks on the walls. Locked up and filled with only the cheapest diamond spheres, they shouldn’t be worth the effort to break into, but the light they gave was also rather dim.
She should have stayed above; her absence must have destroyed the illusion of the map. She felt bad about that. Was there a way she could learn to leave her illusions behind her? They’d need Stormlight to keep going.…
In any case, Shallan had needed to leave the meeting. The secrets this city hid were too engaging to ignore. She stopped in the hallway and dug out her sketchbook, flipping through pages, looking at the faces of the dead men.
Absently turning a page, she came across a sketch she didn’t recall making. A series of twisting, maddening lines, scribbled and unconnected.
She felt cold. “When did I draw this?”
Pattern moved up her dress, stopping under her neck. He hummed, an uncomfortable sound. “I do not remember.”
She flipped to the next page. Here she’d drawn a rush of lines sweeping out from a central point, confused and chaotic, transforming to the heads of horses with the flesh ripping off, their eyes wide, equine mouths screaming. It was grotesque, nauseating.
Oh Stormfather…
Her fingers trembled as she turned to the next page. She’d scribbled it entirely black, using a circular motion, spiraling toward the center point. A deep void, an endless corridor, something terrible and unknowable at the end.
She snapped the sketchbook shut. “What is happening to me?”
Pattern hummed in confusion. “Do we… run?”
“Where.”
“Away. Out of this place. Mmmmm.”
“No.”
She trembled, part of her terrified, but she couldn’t abandon those secrets. She had to have them, hold them, make them hers. She turned sharply in the corridor, taking a path away from her room. A short time later, she strode into the barracks where Sebarial housed his soldiers. There were plentiful spaces like this in the tower: vast networks of rooms with built-in stone bunks in the walls. Urithiru had been a military base; that much was evident from its ability to efficiently house tens of thousands of soldiers on the lower levels alone.
In the common room of the barracks, men lounged with coats off, playing with cards or knives. Her passing caused a stir as men gaped, then leaped to their feet, debating between buttoning their coats and saluting. Whispers of “Radiant” chased her as she walked into a corridor lined with rooms, where the individual platoons bunked. She counted off doorways marked by archaic Alethi numbers etched into the stone, then entered a specific one.
She burst in on Vathah and his team, who sat inside playing cards by the light of a few spheres. Poor Gaz sat on the chamber pot in a corner privy, and he yelped, pulling closed the cloth on the doorway.
Guess I should have anticipated that, Shallan thought, covering her blush by sucking in a burst of Stormlight. She folded her arms and regarded the others as they—lazily—climbed to their feet and saluted. They were only twelve men now. Some had made their way to other jobs. A few others had died in the Battle of Narak.
She’d kind of been hoping that they would all drift away—if only so she wouldn’t have to figure out what to do with them. She now realized that Adolin was right. That was a terrible attitude. These men were a resource and, all things considered, had been remarkably loyal.
“I,” Shallan told them, “have been an awful employer.”
“Don’t know about that, Brightness,” Red said—she still didn’t know how the tall, bearded man had gotten his nickname. “The pay has come on time and you haven’t gotten too many of us killed.”
“Oi got killed,” Shob said from his bunk, where he saluted—still lying down.
“Shut up, Shob,” Vathah said. “You’re not dead.”
“Oi’m dyin’ this time, Sarge. Oi’m sure of it.”
“Then at least you’ll be quiet,” Vathah said. “Brightness, I agree with Red. You’ve done right by us.”
“Yes, well, the free ride is over,” Shallan said. “I have work for you.”
Vathah shrugged, but some of the others looked disappointed. Maybe Adolin was right; maybe deep down, men like this did need something to do. They wouldn’t have admitted that fact, though.
“I’m afraid it might be dangerous,” Shallan said, then smiled. “And it will probably involve you getting a little drunk.”
Oathbringer: The Stormlight Archive Book 3 copyright © 2017 Dragonsteel Entertainment, LLC
Happy Oathbringer Chapter Release Day! Maybe I’ll be able to participate in the comments this week.
Yes! I can’t wait to read, best part of my week by far!
Yeahhh. New content.
Shoutout before reading :D
No Kaladin? *sighs* Oh, well, let us be happy about what we have :)
PS I have never participated in trying to guess the author of the preface since I would probably fail anyway, but today’s made me think of Shallan. There’s probably a catch there somewhere and it might very well be somebody else, but …
WOOOHOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!
Ohh, no Kaladin this week :(. Besides that, there is one thing that got me curious. When Shallan prepares to fight she impersonates Radiant. She tries to be that legendary figure, while having this concept of it and ideals she believes they held. Still, at the same time I feel like she kinda throws herself on the second plan. Becomes less important than that figure. On the other hand, Kaladin does the opposite. He doesn’t try to impersonate. He’s just himself, while at the same time he strives to be a better person. I mean that’s how he defeated White Assasin. He just stopped overthinking things and just let himself Be. He himself said that the skies belonged to him from his birth. I wonder. Perhaps Shallan will learn how to do it too? Or from the other point of view, perhaps this how her Order does things?
Sorry for a little convoluted text :D
Ummmmm I think we may have just spotted a Kandra guys….
“A dark mass wriggled deep inside, squeezing between walls. Like goo, but with bits jutting out. Those were elbows, ribs, fingers splayed along one wall, each knuckle bending backward.
A spren, she thought, trembling. It is some strange kind of spren.
The thing twisted, head deforming in the tiny confines, and looked toward her. She saw eyes reflecting her light, twin spheres set in a mashed head, a distorted human visage.”
That sounds a heck of a lot like a kandra to me!
Chapter 25
Back to Dalinar for me on the writer of Oathbringer. Probably referencing his wife? he needs to write this book to convince the world that he is a changed man, perhaps?
I keep waiting for Pattern to make the connection that some of the “lies” people tell are actually Truths, and the only way they can get people to see it is through the “lies”. A play, or story, would be a good example of that.
Sure, except people have been doing exactly that since the beginning of time, lol. I do want to see this theater scene on screen though. Almost as much as Szeth and Gavilar’s fight. What Shallan is doing here is basically what Wit did with Kaladin, but on a much, much grander scale. Lightweaving, indeed.
Even Shallan at the end doesn’t seem to understand the difference between truth and fact. Perhaps its not Pattern that needs to first learn this lesson, then.
Not a Spren, Shallan, a Sleepless. Probably the one assigned to watch you, I’d guess. Probably NOT the source of evil you are feeling.
Shallan is drawing a false correlation here in classic Sanderson style. The other murders don’t reference the victims looking alike. And lots of people wear coats and hats. Especially when they’re trying to hide their features. Like a Dysian Aimian who is currently reforming himself into a human appearance.
Josh @8, to me, too. Wasn’t there supposed to be at least one on Roshar?
“Idly, he wondered what it would take to actually earn the ardents’ displeasure.”
I guess Dalinar got the answer to that one…
@8 @10 that was almost certainly one of the Unmade, not a kandra. The kandra wouldn’t be nearly that obvious anyway, or important to the plot like this.
Props to those who guessed that Adolin would reveal Kaladin’s secret to Shallan. Happened a lot earlier than I expected.
@@@@@ 8, 10 – I think there is supposed to be one Kandra Worldhopper, but I thought it was going to be in Mistborn era 3? I think an Aimian seems more likely – like @@@@@9 said – if Stormlight is supposed to be more self-contained (unfortunately).
Hey, look, the preface writer can say something interesting. I’m leaning towards Dalinar now.
Oh, Shallan, no. You shouldn’t repress unpleasant truths. You know that ends badly.
@12 Not to mention the Kandra wpuld have to be deeply crazy to kill people like that. Which has happened but it’d a pretty big intrusion of the non-Rosharan Cosmere. The Archive might have the most cross-over that we’ve seen so far but introducing a mad Kandra would be a bit much.
@8 That seems exceedingly unlikely when Pattern has pretty much identified it as an Unmade.
Finally something intereting in the preface!
I was just thinking Pattern would enjoy the theater before Shallan started to talk about it. Sanderson has done a good job building up the creepy atmosphere, although that might also be because I happened to have some music on that fit the mood.
It seems eventually her illusion skill will progress beyond what she has drawn. Although there may be other personal things blocking her ability to conjure her family. She mentions that watching the players had been the only bright spots in life; was this before her mom tried to kill her? So what else was going on in this family? Her memories seem to suggest that her father didn’t really become violent until after that but that could also be due to her unreliable narration.
But the plot thickens – interesting that even her stabbing got replicated. Is it all acts of violence, or just people who are (or have the potential to be) Radiants? Would that imply something about the guy who killed his wife?
HA! Shallan is unintentionally recruiting for the Ghostbloods.
Ch 2 – oh dear, the title sounds ominous. Hmm…now I wonder, could Dalinar have written the preface? Did he murder Evi?
At any rate – unless it came later, which it very well could – it doesn’t seem he felt much for Evi at all. And Dalinar seems to be caught between being what people want him to be at different times; either the Blackthorn, or more civilized. He doesn’t really seem to have a lot of self-direction (although I guess if he could choose, at this point he’d just be the Blackthorn all the time).
“People spoke of common men bringing down a Shardbearer, but surely that was a fabrication.” – haha, I see what you did there.
Aw man, poor horse. :( Aaaand now he’s basically killing his own troops too.
““Curious, how quickly tyrants grow religious. It must be convenient to tell yourself that your murders belong to the Almighty instead.” – BURN.
Some really interesting family dynamics going on here.
Ch 3 – I feel about the same way Adolin does. We got rid of Sadeas but now we’re stuck with this.
I also very much agree with Shallan’s general confusion about the cult of ‘true soldiers’.
OH SNAP THE TRUTH IS COMING OUT. SO funny that people were just discussing who actually knew the story and why Shallan might not yet, but that Adolin most likely did.
“Poor bridgeboy. Everyone would have been better off if he’d just let Amaram die.” – ha – kind of callous but so true! Except then I guess Kaladin wouldn’t be where he was needed.
“Adolin wanted to go visit his father’s horse again, but she wasn’t interested in standing around smelling horse dung” – damn girl. Somebody maybe doesn’t have the greatest opinion of her in laws, lol.
Ok, I’ve only read the first line (the piece from Oathbringer), and it seems, in light of what we’ve seen in his flashbacks, that Dalinar is the author. I’m still leaning toward it being an ancient book – so ultimately someone from the past being the author. But, if it is someone current, I think it is Dalinar.
Chapter 26
Flashback time.
Dalinar not down with the PDA, just like his son, and for the same reason. What will the BOYS think? Snicker.
Oh yes Dalinar, thats why Navani provided you with her own prayer. Because she didn’t trust Evi’s handwriting. lol
Musicspren and Ryshadium, eh? Do Ryshadium have Rhythms of their own?
There are obvious differences in culture, but Gavilar and Dalinar are reminding me more and more of Ghengis Khan and his brothers.
Blah, blah. Battle. For some reason battle scenes told like this never engage me. I like the more personal look at combat that we get from Mat in the Wheel of Time.
Killing your own men in a battle lust? Not cool, Thrill, not cool.
Ouch. Yet that is EXACTLY what Dalinar is trying to do in the present day narrative. This is why, if Dalinar is writing Oathbringer, such a book is necessary.
My thoughts in no specific order, not many this week:
– For some reason, I really liked Shallan’s story. It was a metaphor. The wall is a metaphor to express the wal she built within herself to keep the bad things in.
– It was odd she used known people to play the roles but none of them were Adolin. I am sure the Kaladin/Shallan shippers will pick on the fact Kaladin was represented.
– So the killer is a spren which takes the form of the killer and kills someone looking similar. This means maybe it was spotted while looking like Adolin killing Perel.
– The Dalinar flashback chapter has been reworked from the one I have read. It happened earlier (29 years as opposed to 25 years). And the quote where Dalinar states all the feelings he has for Evi are of the wrong kind was removed.
– I am growing convinced he never loved his wife, but she loved him.
– Dalinar was a monster: he killed his own men. He slaughtered his own elite and nearly killed his own brother. This is the passage I have been wanting people to read because right here and there it shows how the Blackthorn wasn’t a nice person. He was a butcher.
– In the original version of the text, Dalinar gives the Shards to Elhokar, now he isn’t born yet.
– Relis Ruthar is, at the minimum, 29 years old.
– Talanor just won the Blade which will eventually belong to Adolin.
– Highprince Amaram. AH. I actually called this one a long time ago.
– Elhokar needs to ask if this is legal. Really? You have been king for 6 years and you still do not know your own laws?
– Renarin standing with Dalinar, Adolin not standing with Dalinar: Brandon really needs to write more Adolin viewpoints. He can’t be 100% fine with this.
– Adolin is visibly angry at Amaram and Dalinar sends him away.
– And so this is how Shallan learns the truth about Helaran and Kaladin. Through Adolin. And she blocks it, once again. While her reaction is perfectly within character and normal given her backstory, it annoyed me as a reader. I am debating with myself as to why.
– There is a very strong focus on Shallan into the story so far. Her chapters are very good, but it feels to me as if her inner issues aren’t the only ones the author should address.
– Adolin’s character is starting to read wrong, to me. It is like he got all of this development before, but it feels the author then decided: “You know what, he doesn’t fit into the story, so let’s retrograde him to the background and ignore how he must be feeling about all the things which changed around him.”. Thus, this part of the story is not currently working out for me. It just reads completely wrong. Adolin’s character reads wrong, like if Brandon started something, but changed his mind halfway.
– Ah and no Kaladin this week.
– I hope to see more of Renarin soon. Just showing him unassuming and ill-at-ease is not helping the character progress. I want more.
OMG! I have only read the Preface… but, could it be Dalinar who wrote Oathbringer? ***the pain… *** I hope it is not him. I have not read the chapters yet. The Preface just hit me so hard. (back to reading)
At the beginning shallan companies the strata in Urithiru to veins. My guess is that, like the horneater peaks, Urithiru has (or had) a shardpool hidden somewhere that ‘powered’ the city. The veins, strata, instead of carrying blood, carried Stormlight, lighting up the city, giving it warmth. Also my guess is that the shardpool here is where Shard plate comes from. Makes sense if you think how humans power shardblades via their bond and Stormlight (in the form of gems) power plate. Thoughts?
Chapter 27
This is Dalinar. I’m convinced of it again. But why would people have thought him dead? Someone post the whole preface again, please?
Yeah, this use of aspects by Shallan is still troubling.
Huh. maybe I’m wrong in my assumption that is was a Sleepless, since Pattern seems to think whatever it was was of Odium, and the Sleepless are of Cultivation, most likely. Well, perhaps Dysians can become things of Odium the was Parshendi can choose NOT to?
Locate spanreeds, or block them from working, or drain Stormlight?
I still think Shallan is drawing incorrect correlations here, but maybe I’m wrong.
Shallan’s anger cooling, and rational thought prevailing regarding her brother’s death in regards to Amaram is a good thing for Kaladin, I’m guessing.
Congrats to those who guessed that Amaram was going to become Highprince. And, since Dalinar has just told Ehlokar he wouldn’t interfere in Alethi internal politics, he can’t do a damned thing about it.
And then there’s Adolin, cutting right to the heart of it. With absolutely no tact whatsoever. He doesn’t get that Shallan might not care what the reasons were that her brother died. I mean, he’s right. but if it was Renarin, would it matter that someone was just protecting themselves on the battlefield, or what he want to murder that person and avenge his brother?
I have no idea what’s happening with the drawings. None.
@15:
Pattern has most definitely NOT identified it as an Unmade. He identified it as of Odium. That could be anything from an Unmade to a creature bonded to Odiumspren. Or something else entirely.
@17 I have the same thoughts.
@19 – “– It was odd she used known people to play the roles but none of them were Adolin. I am sure the Kaladin/Shallan shippers will pick on the fact Kaladin was represented.
Hah, I had the same thought. I’m not a Shallan/Kaladin shipper but I kind of was all, ‘oh man, they’ll use that!’. I did also notice Adolin’s non-appearance, but I am not sure that depicting Kaladin as a small role in the story necessarily means anything. Palona was in it too and I don’t know that she feels any particular attachment to her.
@7 wow that’s a good point and obviously connected to SOMETHING. . . . whether it’s the simple nature of their respective orders or a sign of Kaladin’s relative maturity, I am curious to find out!
I wonder when Shallan will get more into soulcasting/Shadesmar? It must be coming in this book, I would think. . . .
@22: Adolin is a soldier. He understands during battle, people are killed. He understands those people have families which loved them, but war is war. Hence, if Renarin had been killed, during a battle, where he was fighting with equal arms (not at a disadvantage) and just ended being bested, then yes I would think Adolin would accept the death. It would hurt, but he not react like Shallan who is angry Helaran was killed in war he genuinely decided to partake in, in a battle he willingly took place into.
Shallan’s reaction, while plausible given her character, truly annoyed me. Helaran has been dead for over a year. He was killed in war: why is she angry at it? If she ought to be mad at someone, then it is Helaran she should be mad of because he’s the one who left them alone, he’s the one who went to fight another man’s battles and got killed for it.
Thus to me, the fact Helaran dying should be such a big deal is kinda of not hitting home. Her reaction is disproportionate to the event, IMHO.
This being said, this chapter does give brownie points to those having argued Adolin doesn’t get Shallan. I would argue she doesn’t get him either: she is so self-centered as if only she ever had problems. Mind, Kaladin gave the same feeling back in WoR, so I’ll RAFO.
I discovered these early release chapters yesterday and gobbled them up in short order. Then I was wondering when the next set of chapters were coming out. I thought they were released at 12:01 am every Tuesday. Very happy to see these now.
I keep wondering when Jasnah would make her entrance. Really looking forward to her reunion with Shallan and Navani :)
Gepeto@19:
He was trained as a warrior and politician, not a lawyer or a judge, and he’s not allowed to read. Of course he has to ask someone if its legal. He’s had no cause to know those laws to this point, as he’s spent his entire kingship fighting on the Shattered Plains. And his father wasn’t old when he died. I doubt Prince Ehlokar had reached an age where actually preparing to be King had even occurred to him.
@27:
Huh. My experience with people who have lost loved ones is that reason doesn’t enter into it for a very, very long time. She didn’t find out that Heleran was dead until she saw Amaram’s shardblade. That was, about 9 weeks ago in-world.
@28:
They release at 9:00a EST. Rumor is that Jasnah’s role is very short in this book, her being on the cover notwithstanding. So, we may not get a reunion, since she seems to be someplace where actual fighting is going on, and I think Shallan and Navani will most likely spend the bulk, if not all, of the book in Urithiru.
A little disappointed there’s no Kaladin chapter this week but we are nearing the end of Part 1 and the meeting the parshmen are going to, so not surprised it’s been held off for a little.
A week early but Shallan’s chapters certain were seasonally appropriate! I like when Sanderson dips his toes into horror: Shallan discovering the Cryptics in her drawings and running away is one of my favorite parts of The Way of Kings.
As for Shallan mentioning her anger against Amaram has cooled, and then learning Kaladin was the one who killed Helaran and immediately repressing that: I’m struck as both of those are *bad* signs. In Words of Radiance Shallan mentioned that her father was most dangerous when his anger went cold, and considering Shallan’s general temperament and set of skills, I wouldn’t be surprised if she was the same way. As for her immediately repressing it, that’s in-character but the speed at which she did it…her friendship (or whatever ship you want if that’s your thing) with Kaladin is going to be strained. Maybe it’s a good thing he flew away now, although I get the feeling more time apart won’t really help the matter.
Oathbringer might be written by Evi?
“I will confess my murders before you. Most painfully, I have killed someone who loved me dearly.”
She might have killed her brother Toh?
She is a heretic and believed to be dead.
“And she made no mention of the Almighty—instead she spoke of something called the One, a heretical tradition the ardents told him came from Iri.”
I’m back to thinking Dalinar is the author, as well. It would also make sense in that he has so much admiration for Nohadon and is, in a way, following in the ancient king’s footsteps as he (Dalinar) is now king of Urithiro.
Regarding the comments that the copycat killer is a kandra, they need a corpse to impersonate a person. Every single person that was impersonated, was still alive before, during, and after the impersonation (Adolin, random guy, and Veil). So I think it is pretty conclusive that it wasn’t a Kandra, regardless whether it is the type to be ok with killing or not.
That blob kinda sounds like a Kandra.
1. Dalinar is a monster in this flashback, but this is also a significant turning point in his character. This is the start of the change from Blackthorn to Statesman, and like all beginnings, is bound to have a few missteps along the way. Journey before destination right? I see a man of war propped up by the Thrill to be an irresistible force, a berzerker. A man whom the Thrill has failed, causing him to murder his own troops and almost his own brother. For one such as this, he had to find something else, he had to find a measure of control, a coda to live by to keep the Thrill from completely taking over.
2. I think Dalinar did eventually fall for Evi. Remember these are early days yet. An arranged marriage to a woman he doesn’t know well, already mooning over another, it makes sense that he doesn’t feel much in the way of love for his betrothed as of yet. The reason I think he eventually falls for her is two-fold. One is speculative. We don’t know why Dalinar went to the Nightwatcher but it seems like love lost would be a powerful motive. The second reason is his sons. Adolin and Renarin are remarkably non-dysfunctional considering the Blackthorn as their sire. Their personalities are indicative symbols of a loving home environment. Parents who don’t love each other tend to raise children in a poisonous environment; the boys don’t seem to have those types of emotional scars.
@35
Valid point except we don’t know for sure that what Shallan saw is also the killer. She may have seen a Kandra that was also stalking the killer.
I think this unlikely, but wanted to throw it out there as a possibility.
@25 LOL. I so know people who are going to pick this up as an argument in favor of Kaladin/Shallan. Mind, the stronger argument is the Shallan/Adolin’s discussion later on, the one about Helaran. Adolin and Shallan, they are very cute, but they aren’t really seeing each other. Now, this isn’t to say Kaladin sees Shallan better (if he does it is only because she told him part of the truth), but Adolin clearly doesn’t. And it works both ways. I also don’t like how the book is currently written in a way which makes Helaran’s death and Shallan’s past being a bigger plot points than Adolin murdering Sadeas. It is just so wrong to me.
@29: Elhokar has been preparing to be king years before Gavilar died: he was acting king and replacing his father already when he was away. While it is true he is no lawyer, I would think the mechanisms by which one can get to appoint a Highprince are common enough to be known by the king himself. It isn’t as if he was asked about some obscure law or regulation. Also, even if he didn’t know back when Gavilar died, he had 6 year to learn about it. It seems to me someone dedicated to be a good king would make an effort to be familiar with the basic regulations of his kingdom.
@28: But she knew Helaran was dead before… I seem to recall his death being announced in one of her flashbacks or am I misremembering? Still being angry at an opposing soldier having killed another soldier in a battle is really odd to me: when a loved one enrolls into the army, you expect this loved one may not be coming back.
Still, YMMV, but I was annoyed at her reaction. The fact she repressed it immediately and/or the fact she always need to be someone else to deal with things… I don’t know. I’ll have to read where this is going, but this is the kind of story arc which may end up unnerving me if it drags on for too long.
Good chapters! I was surprised to get 2 Shallan chapters with a Dalinar flashback sandwiched in between, but we did get to see some interaction between the 2 Vedan Radiants. Also, I cracked up at Pattern’s description of Dustbringer spren’s habits!
The epigraphs are starting to get a little more specific on who this may (or may not) be. Jasnah is looking less and less likely..
I loved Chapter 25, it is perhaps my favorite Shallan chapter so far. Her recreation of the play and Pattern’s fascination with it (a play is a group lie), was so fun to read. I can’t wait to see how far she can go with her illusion skills, and how she combines it with soulcasting. Can she manifest the illusions into solid form? That would be the coolest ability ever.
Lots of interesting things going on in Chapter 27. The enemy is making a play for the oathgates. Spanreeds are going dead. Kaladin makes contact with a “time” glyph.
Highprince Amaram, ugh. I love Adolin’s reactions ““Bastard,” and “We’re finally rid of Sadeas, and now that takes his place?” Haha, way to speak for the readers, Adolin.
And Shallan finally learns the truth about Helaran. Holy smokes, my heart skipped a beat there. Her blocking it out makes complete sense. Even though her rational mind might know Helaran was up to no good, he was her brother and she loves him. It’s easy to hate Amaram for it, but finding out that your friend did the killing? That’s hard to reconcile. It will be interesting to see how she deals with it and how she interacts with Kaladin when he returns.
I am finally happy to see some of Bridge Four, even if only second hand. Lopen in Shallan’s illusion, Rock getting stabbed, Adolin joking round with them. I love and miss those guys and will take what I can get.
Gaz on the chamber pot made me laugh out loud. :-)
I really want to more about the dustbringers they break things to figure out what’s inside is such a tease. And like to destroy things apparently
@37: The boys seem like they have no scars, this is very true. Adolin has however murdered a Highprince and he acts as if nothing ever happened. It can’t be right. What else has he kept a secret? I mean, if he can let something as big as that absolutely not affect him, surely he can power throughout a dysfunctional family.
I would argue Renarin has many, many scars, but we can’t say which ones yet.
New thoughts.
The Dustbringer. Pattern says their people loved to break things to see what is inside: this ought to be the first clue towards what they are looking for as an order. And whom comes to mind naturally?
Navani.
She too wishes to break apart fabrial of olds to see what is inside. I am thinking all speculations wanting the Dustbringers to be soldiers and war oriented were completely wrong.
I only read the first few paragraphs, but have to comment already. Just the first little bit is conveying such a sense of foreboding and anticipation…I have the feeling this chapter will up the stakes and be awesome (even without Lift).
One point in favor of Jasnah writing the book: In WoR when it shows her POV during Gavilar’s death, she talks about hiring an assassin to kill her sister-in-law. As far as we know, the queen is still alive, but Jasnah might’ve killed someone else, or had them be killed. Like… maybe the person who told her about the Book of Endless Pages or something.
So what is up with Amaram addressing Dalinar as Highprince. Isn’t he a king now? Wouldn’t Adolin be the Highprince?
Ok, here’s my theory:
The copycat murders are done by a sleepless trying to understand why humans do violence.
@devisor the changing of the guard as it were (Dalinar head of Urithiru, and Adolin now Highprince) hasn’t been announced yet. In the prior three chapters Dalinar mentioned how they are taking time before announcing it. Adolin may not even know yet.
Good point @48 Scath. I need to reread this all the way through from the beginning. Three chapters a week in fun to pick apart but you do lose the sense of time which this is all taking place.
@46:
That announcement hasn’t been made public yet.
It was asked for I deliver
In world Oathbringer, what we have so far:
“I’m certain some will feel threatened by this record. Some few may feel liberated. Most will simply feel that it should not exist. I needed to write it anyway. I know that many women who read this will see it only as further proof that I am the godless heretic everyone claims. I can point to the moment when I decided for certain this record had to be written. I hung between realms, seeing into Shadesmar—the realm of the spren—and beyond. I thought that I was surely dead. Certainly, some who saw further than I did thought I had fallen. I did not die. I experienced something worse. That moment notwithstanding, I can honestly say this book has been brewing in me since my youth. The sum of my experiences has pointed at this moment. This decision. Perhaps my heresy stretches back to those days in my childhood, where these ideas began. I ask not that you forgive me. Nor that you even understand. I ask only that you read or listen to these words. In this record, I hold nothing back. I will try not to shy away from difficult topics, or paint myself in a dishonestly heroic light. I will express only direct, even brutal, truth. You must know what I have done, and what those actions cost me. For in this comes the lesson. It is not a lesson I claim to be able to teach. Experience herself is the great teacher, and you must seek her directly. You cannot have a spice described to you, but must taste it for yourself. However, with a dangerous spice, you can be warned to taste lightly. I would that your lesson may not be as painful as my own. I am no storyteller, to entertain you with whimsical yarns. I am no philosopher, to intrigue you with piercing questions. I am no poet, to delight you with clever allusions. I have no doubt that you are smarter than I am. I can only relate what happened, what I have done, and then let you draw conclusions. I will confess my murders before you. Most painfully, I have killed someone who loved me dearly. I will confess my heresy. I do not back down from the things I have said, regardless of what the ardents demand.”
my thoughts on author. Not Shallan, or Jasnah. likely a male as they are the least likely to be storytellers, philosophers, or poets, these callings not being masculine arts. the author has killed someone who loved him. and has committed heresy, and has been called a heretic, and has visited shadesmar. He also is at odds with the ardents. the tone fits either Mr T, or Dalinar. I am still leaning on Taravangian rather than Dalinar, but I suppose it could go either way. the other option would be a radiant who killed his spren I suppose, but I do not think that is the case. it would be called oath breaker if it was an account of the recreance.
I’m just curious how everyone pronounces Evi. Do you say it like the Pokémon Eevee? Or like the beginning of Evian water (like eh-vee)? I can’t decide myself.
There is a lot to chew over in today’s offering!
Gepeto:
I completely disagree with you re: Shallan’s self-absorption – anybody having such a rough time would be hard-pressed to notice very subtle things about other people. On the one hand, she is trapped in a horror scenario hunting an Odium-spren that had, apparently driven the Radiants out of Urithiru even before the Recreance. And she is primarily doing it for the common good, too, not for herself. OTOH, she is also seemingly losing her mind. And on the gripping hand, she has just learned that Kaladin – one of only 2 people outside her family, in whom she confided some of her terrible past, had killed her favorite brother and didn’t admit it to her when they were swapping their life-stories in the chasms. And yea, I don’t think that anybody could remain friends with somebody who killed a beloved family member and then deceived you about it. Even on the field of battle, in a fair fight. People just aren’t that logical. And in case of Shallan and young Davars in general there would be a probably irrational feeling that if Helaran had only survived, he would have rescued them, preventing all the murders and ordeals of Lin’s last months and the aftermath of his death.
Also, didn’t people here argue that Lord Tanalan’s son would have surely tried to avenge his father, if he had a chance to grow up? Even though Dalinar killed him in a more than fair fight?
On the contrary, I really liked how much (for her) Shallan was prepared to tell Adolin – both about her adventures in information-gathering cum Horneater ale sampling in the previous chapters and here about her grudge against Amaram.
As to Adolin – he is a bit thoughtless here – but he is also distracted by lots of things on his mind, so I’ll give him a pass. I have a very different interpretation of his absence from Shallan’s play, too – given that it was a village of _the damned_ that she was borrowing people’s likenesses to depict. Interestingly enough, the enormous steps on the other side of the wall have been described in one of the epigraphs in the previous 2 volumes. Something about somebody dragging themselves up those steps to a dawnshard?
But what was that horror-thing that she chased? Could it have been a corrupted Sleepless bound to an Odiumspren? It seemed just too corporeal for a spren alone. Also, something prompted “the scouring of Aimia”.
I am surprised that, given how Alethi are prone to seizing power over bodies of family members and how succession to a Highprince’s position even by a son is by no means automatic, that there is a an established custom of regency for a young heir by an older male. Wouldn’t it generally lead to usurpation? But maybe Ialai doesn’t care, since she and Sadeas didn’t have sons.
Oh, and how does the shards math work? How come that after all the hard work on behalf of Kholins, Sadeas still didn’t get a shardblade to go with his inherited shardplate? Until Dalinar traded him one in WoK, that is. How could Amaram be so highly regarded as a warrior and a general when he didn’t have shards until recently? How could Highprince Kalanor in this flashback have been a significant threat, when he only had 2.5 sets of shards on his side? Alethkar has half of all the known shards in the world – I don’t remember how much it is, but surely there should have been dozens of shardbearers on all important battlefields? Shouldn’t having shards, in fact, be pretty much an “I win” button? It certainly seems to have been the case with Dalinar – who is admittedly extremely BAMFy, but also with Helaran when he took the field? Until a surge-binder happened to him, that is.
Did Dalinar come very, very close to becoming a voidbinder? If humans can become such. Is it just for the lack of a suitable voidspren in the vicinity that he was able to pull back? Oh, and it is all but certain that he killed Evi. She probably was held with some non-combatants and tried to stop Thrill-high Dalinar from slaughtering them or something.
Hey, I guess I can join the comments this week.
1. The epigraph here immediately gave me two thoughts: The first is “Shallan??” It’s obvious and it’d be very interesting for her to have a crisis of religion and acknowledge she’s now an heretic. Basically, all the filler lines gain a whole lot of meaning if it’s Shallan writting them. But then I thought “What about Jasnah?” Wouldn’t it be an interesting plot twist if Jasnah as a kid killed Evi? It’s very random, but we’re all thinking Dalinar wanted to forget something he did himself, but maybe he wanted to forget something someone he liked did to him, so he could forgive? I dunno. It’s a huge stretch and I don’t think the people that read The Thrill could keep THAT under wraps.
In the end we’re all just grasping at straws when guessing about this epigraph.
The rest of the chapter was very interesting. This reminded me of her flashback with Hoid. In a way it gave me hope. She’s struggling, she’s hurting but eventually she’ll heal and cry a lot. And I know we’ll all cry with her so that’s interesting.
And now we got ourselves an unmade. I’m thinking Mraize will try to take it away and bind someone with it after Shallan caputres it? Maybe not. As a side note, are we aware of Mraize being a worldhopper. I remember one of them had a mask reminiscent of the guys from the other continent in Mistborn, I just can’t remember if it was Mraize. I wonder if the different magic systems will ever play a big part in SA.
2. It seems I interpreted this flashback differently than others. It seems less that Dalinar is a murderous bitch. He’s raw and violent but the Thrill is having a very big effect here. The way his vision goes red and he goes into a rampage reminds me of Koloss in Mistborn. I think we’re all underestimating the effects of The Thrill in how Dalinar came across here. As soon as the Thrill was gone he regretted what he did. He seems more like a struggling drug addict than anything else in these chapters. He loves battles because he loves the way he feels under a mind altering magic. We even see how he starts hating the intricacies of though battles and prefers the thrill hypnosis of fighting large swats of meaningless ants.
On the other hand, the Unmade that’s causing the Thrill feels much…. bigger yet more ephemeral than the Spren mimicking violence. Perhaps the creature is something else entirely?
3. The way Adolin is just like ‘Kaladin killed your brother, Shal’ like it’s not big deal is why I love Brandon Sanderson so fucking much. He nearly never makes annoying plot points annoying. Shallan will still struggle with it, but there’s no annoying plot line where she and Kaladin have an awkward discussion and pout and then they both have to say they’re sorry, yara yara. Characters just act decently. They realize they’re hurt but it wasn’t the other person’s fault and story lines don’t hinge on people being silly. Although I’d really want Shallan to explain her current situation to Adolin.
Now I really want to know what’s going on with Kaladin. I hope there isn’t some plot line where people think he joined the enemy or some crap like that, but then again, I just mentioned how Brandon usually avoids the crappy conflict for the sake of conflict story lines.
Loving the book so far, can’t fucking wait to read it all!
Again, the mysterious drawings! I absolutely love this development. There is something supernatural about Shallan’s talent, as in, it has nothing to do with her two Surges. It could be something all orders of Radiants had, something special and inexplicable that only they could do. Kaladin’s skill with the spear, Renarin’s foresight, this passage:
“ The considerable abilities of the Skybreakers for making such amounted to an almost divine skill, for which no specific Surge or spren grants capacity, but however the order came to such an aptitude, the fact of it was real and acknowledged even by their rivals. ”
–From Words of Radiance, chapter 28, page 3
Suffice it to say, I am intrigued.
About the quotes at the beginning of each chapter. We all know how Brandon likes to overturn any assumptions we have about what’s going on?
The tone in this one reminded me of the tone in a story about Joan of Arc’s trial, where Joan was stating what she’d done and why with the full expectation of dying at the end.
My theory: These quotes we’ve been thinking are kind of dull and not adding too much are from a trial. I think Dalinar will be on trial for heresy and I don’t think he’s going to fight his way out of this one. Either he won’t be able to or he’ll realize dying will do more to unite people and give them a chance against Odium than survival will.
@19 Gepeto, Shallan eliciting no reaction felt wrong to me, because Adolin didn’t seem to catch that. We could blame it on him being upset at the moment, but come on…
@52. In the thevaudiobook for Unfettered II, Evi is pronounced like the letters A and V by native English speakers
@56 How could the introduction to Oathbringer (which is what it’s been explicitly described as) be from a trial?
The quote at the beginning of Chapter 25 does not 100% rule out Jasnah as the author of the preface. There is a lot her history we do not know. IIRC, Jasnah mentioned that the ardent Ghostblood who tried to kill her and Shallan in WoK was not the first Ghostblood she killed. It is possible that one of the other Ghostbloods that Jasnah killed was somebody who loved Jasnah dearly.
The imagery was vivid in the beginning of Chapter 25. It fits the way artistic way Shallan views her surroundings.
Wit would die and go to the Tranquiline Halls if he could perform in front of Pattern. I loved how Shallan was able to capture Pattern’s interest in the story. Had she stopped telling the story, Pattern would have formed into a stick and hit Shallan over the head
.
Like Kaladin and Fleet, I think Shallan’s story is something of a representation of her journey in her mission to find the evil that affects Urithiru. I believe Kaladin came to realize that there were elements in Fleet that were Kaladin. As with Fleet, Kaladin had to do the impossible: defend the King [whom Kaladin did not like and respect] against assassins when Kaladin himself was injured and had no Windrunner powers – or so he thought. It was just his determination to do the job. Likewise, Shallan sees herself as the little girl. The little girl’s climb up the wall will represent Shallan’s journey to fight the evil. The question Shallan must face: what will she have to become to kill the evil. It will change her – in the same way that the girl’s stealing of the Stormlight brought about the highstorms. We will see if the change will be worth the price.
My theory: Shallan will realize that when a murder (or even a major injury) occurs in Urithiru, a similar victim dies and the murderer looks like the first murder. Shallan will use Lightweaving to fake murder (including lots of blood) and a specific description of the murderer. She will then disguise herself as the dead person and bait the Unmade (or whatever evil entity) it is to try to kill Shallan looking like the dead person. Perhaps she will cast the image of dead person on Pattern. She will then somehow use her PatternBlade to kill the creature. Alternatively, she will have one Renarian or Malata (Malata, most likely) help her kill the creature. However she winds up killing the creature, I think it will be done by the end of OB.
“You needn’t kill in anger.” This statement is good advise for any soldier. I bet present day Dalinar had understood that quote. It seems to me (speaking as somebody who has never been in battle) that the best soldiers are those who are in control of themselves. Blind rage would tend to interfere with critical judgments that a soldier may have to make. FWIIW, I am not sure if Evi is correct – that beasts kill in anger. I would think a beast kills for either food or in defense. Unless Evi means a beast as in an instrument of evil (In Rosharian terms, that would be a voidbringer), not a beast in the context of an animal in the wild.
Seems likely everybody has always underestimated Sebarial. I bet that he would have positioned himself in the best possible light no matter which way the battle in Chapter 26 went. It is tough to always have everybody underestimate you by design. Many a wild animal have survived by making themselves invisible to the larger predator.
I like that Ryshadium roam free in the wild – like mustangs in RL. I wonder if during the battle, the Ryshadium that Dalinar rides will choose Dalinar. The Ryshadium somehow saving Dalinar. I will have to read the rest of the chapter and find out. I wrong about the purpose of the Ryshadium in Chapter 26.
Now we learn why the warlord (i.e. Dalinar) has always refused to make a move against his nephew. Despite being a beserker in battle, Dalinar, even 30 odd years ago, had honor. His promise to himself was because he feared that he would challenge his brother. By making such pledge, Dalinar knew that his honor would keep him from breaking his pledge.
This chapter shows us that Dalinar believes he is broken. He gives up almost everything, including the woman he truly loves. I think in Chapter 26 we first see the breaking that will eventually allow him to bond a spren via the Nahel Bond. I do not think it was the death of Evi (and his actions that either led to her death and/or after learning of her death) that drove him to become an alcoholic and seek out the Nightwatcher. It was his need to let Gavilar have Navani.
Nice that Dalinar had thought to invite Elhokar to the meeting in Chapter 27. Elhokar is becoming as irrelevant as an phone operator in RL.
Now we know that Sadeas and Ialai had no children. I wonder if Sadeas and Ialai tried to have children and could not or whether they choose not to have children. In any event, that was a smart play by Ialai to name Amaram as regent to House Sadeas. He has yet to be tried and convicted. Also, a smart play on his part. He increases the Sons of Honor’s power. I doubt that Ialai and Sadeas were part of the Sons of Honor. I believe Mraize when he said they were only out for themselves; not part of any of the hidden factions.
I do not blame Shallan. Why would Gaz have not shut the privacy screen in the first place? Even if it were just the soldiers.
I cannot wait to hear Shallan’s plan. It probably involves her going out as Veil, along with some of her soldiers. There will be a lot of drinking to get information.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
aka the musespren
@52
I’ve been pronouncing it Eh-vee, for what it’s worth.
I think the author is Shallan. This is a theory I’ve been leaning towards a long time. I think that when Jasnah comes back, they tell Shallan to kill her. Hence, the preface.
And I totally forgot to remark upon the possible almost Voidbinding! Hearing the Rhythms? Seeing Red? Well, I guess the Sons of Honor and Gavilar need not have bothered, the Desolation had been coming since long, long ago.
And for some reason, I believe the hair color of the girl in the story was important. Why white? Combined with the theatrics, it made me think of Hoid.
Just to clairify, when I say they, I mean the Ghostbloods
It seems that Odiumthingy (for lack of a definitive label) copies more than just murders… I believe it is drawing in Shallan’s book. Those scribbles do not have Shallan’s artistic flair, they are more the scribbling of a childlike intellect repeating that which it sees.
My comments are simple. chapter 25 and Shallan’s storytelling onstage gave me chills.
@58 Thanks! That helps. I know I could’ve waited for the audiobook, but I’m too impatient as is. Haha.
These chapters made me think the preface quotes are from Dalinar, but when I was reading through them again, the Ch 2 one stands out. It says “I needed to write it anyway.” But unless Dalinar learns himself how to read and write, he would dictate something more like “It needs to be written anyway.” Of course the woman doing the transcribing could have changed the tense, but it’s something that doesn’t quite fit.
I seem to have a different view of Shallan’s various personas than most people. For context, I have mental health problems including depression and severe anxiety. I don’t say this to give my opinion any more weight (indeed, I’ve noticed that many people with mental health problems find it difficult to understand other people with similar but different mental health problems), but rather to – as I said – give context, and make my comment on the matter more intelligible. The way Shallan deals with her identities in this chapter really brought it home to me how different my perspective seems to be to that I have read on comments of previous chapters. Where others worry about her being on the spiral downwards to madness, I see her first clinging on to, and then climbing, the ladder back to becoming whole.
Shallan is very, very broken. Almost her entire life seems to have been made up of using coping mechanisms, from the obvious (like refusing to accept that certain events happened) to the slightly more subtle (like using word play and other forms of wit to disassociate herself from reality – this, we are told, was done for her brothers’ benefit, and yet in order to do it she had to first remove herself from the moment that often was causing her pain. I’ve done similar myself, and it is often triggered by moments of severe anxiety). Some of these coping mechanisms are more healthy than others. It’s a very poignant moment in WoR when Shallan draws forth the image of what she would be like were she to remember what had happened. I’ve been there (the wreck, that is, not the use of Stormlight) and it is a very justifiable fear.
People have to remember that that coping mechanism which has been allowing her to function normally (-ish) has just been stripped bare from her, and she has nothing to replace it with. Pattern – as adorable as he can be – isn’t much of a psychiatrist, and she has nobody who can guide her as how to cope. When we see her utilising these other ‘identities’, we see her on the edge of a panic attack, walking that line between functioning Shallan, and the version of herself in WoR that she says she would have been. She grabs hold of the one thing she can to help her cope.
A new coping mechanism; one closer to the ideal, as it were, than her last.
It may not be where everyone wants her to be mentally, and perhaps people thought that Pattern’s intervention at the end of the last book was a sink or swim solution to her problems. Unfortunately, the problem with sink or swim solutions, is that people sink, as well as swim.
Were this how Shallan was going to stay, I’d be concerned, yes, but she’s on a journey to recovery, and these current coping mechanisms are temporary. In WoR she’s already made the connection that Veil was not a different face, but rather just another part of Shallan. That’s the key piece of information that will enable her to become whole again. It’s a small step from recognising that these capable identities she creates are a part of her to recognising that she herself is capable.
As an aside, I really love how Brandon Sanderson deals with such weighty topics as these without falling into the trite solutions that are all too common in literature. If I read another severely depressed character suddenly becoming right as rain after someone gives them some ‘tough love’ I’ll tear my hair out.
So Amaram is definitely back in the story. Aaand he’s Highprince, great. One thing that made me curious though is what Dalinar was trying to say to avoid this particular situation:
“Ialai,” Dalinar said, stepping into the illusion beside his son. “Let’s talk about this.
Please. I have an idea that, though untraditional, might—”
What sort of idea did he have in mind for Sadeas’ princedom? Maybe he wanted to make her the Highprince(ss). Or maybe that’s a bit too untraditional still. But I can’t think of any other options at the moment that Ialai would even consider for a moment.
Adolin then says what all the readers are probably thinking at the moment. Interestingly, his opinion of Amaram has gone downhill very quickly. Was it Amaram’s theft of the Shardblade, or was it the knowledge of what he did to Kaladin? Or something else?
Does anyone else think that this “shadow figure” is also the shadows that Elhokar mentioned seeing to Kalidan back in WOR (end of chapter 80)?
Elhokar made to leave. He stopped at the door, not looking at Kaladin. “When you came, the shadows went away.”
“The…shadows?”
“I saw them in mirrors, in the corners of my eyes. I could swear I even heard them whispering, but you frightened them. I haven’t seen them since. There’s something about you.”
Right after that, at the beginning of chapter 81, Sanderson includes a quote from the diagram: “The Unmade are a deviation, a flair, a conundrum that may not be worth your time. You cannot help but think of them. They are fascinating. Many are mindless. Like the spren of human emotions, only much more nasty. I do believe a few can think, however.”
I think the story of “The Girl Who Looked Up” is both a parable and an ancient myth-story roughly telling how the Alethi stole stormlight from Roshar in the first place. I don’t believe the Alethi are Native Rosharans but rather invaders or insurgents or refugee immigrants, by that I mean the Alethi are not of the Planet Roshar. The Alethi are the only ones who get the “Battle Thrill” which is caused by one of the Unmade, who are of Odium. Also I think Cultivation might be married to Odium now. I use the term married as the Greek Myth has Persephone Married to Hades after he abducts her, it seems Persephone is the goddess of vegetation and gives out curses (so read up). Persephone – Parasaphni (mentioned near the end of Way of kings just before the horn sounds calling Dalanar’s forces to the Tower, as the woman who took stones touched by the Heralds and harvested her dead lover’s seed to give birth to 10 peoples, Which I believe is Cultivation) – Parap Shenesh Idi (Parshendi when spelled in glyphs, Words of Radience, when Shallan investigates the contents of Amarand’s House) – Parshendi. Which is my goofy theory that the Parshendi are actually cultivation’s native people of Roshar. The human peoples (in my humble opinion) on the planet Roshar are either Immigrant (world hopper), refugee (descendants of Honor’s recreated peoples via Cultivation and the “Stones”), or invader (of Odium). Hades collects the Souls of the dead and takes them to the underworld, Odium is doing the same thing (death rattles – Dagonarthis, and the Odium “faceless immortal” at the end of Bands of Mourning – “You will be allowed to serve in another Realm”). So if the Human peoples are not cultivation’s and not native to roshar then the very first death rattle in Way of Kings takes on a whole new meaning:
“The love of men is a frigid thing, a mountain stream only three steps from the ice. We are his. Oh Stormfather … we are his. It is but a thousand days, and the Everstorm comes.”
Seems like someone just figured out that they are of Odium, and in about 1000 days Hades is coming to collect this new harvest, I mean Odium…
@51, thank you for putting all the prefaces together! Reading it again makes me think this is Jasnah writing, it just sounds like her. The experiences, and maybe the tone, described also match Shallan, but Shallan is not (yet) anything close to a heretic, and her faith is important to her. It just doesn’t sound like Dalinar when put together, I can’t imagine him being so poetic narrating his own experiences. Each individual sentence he maybe would say, but all of them together, IMO, no.
@8 and @10
I kept thinking the same thing. Since Pattern said “It is not a thing of us. It is of him.” It makes me wonder Adonalsium can control beings with Hemalurgic spikes like Harmony/Ruin and the kandra got captured. It would be an interesting tie-in.
@75 Odium, not Adonalsium.
I’ve been re-listening to the entire cosmere. Too many names to keep straight >.<
@61 That’s how we told the audiobook narrators to pronounce it. Rhymes with heavy.
@45. Alisa. If you re-read WoR carefully you will not find anything saying Jasnah was going to have Elokhar’s wife assassinated. She decides against the assassination and instead gives the instructions to have Elokhar’s wife watched. It never actually said she was the assassination target. What does it mean? Who knows. Maybe nothing.
Oathbringer is a book written by Jasnah, the preface at each chapter is from that book. I’ll try to find the relevant passage that confirms it and post it, or if someone else knows where it is let us know.
@@@@@ 74 aenea22980
The problem I have with theorizing about the prelude is that certain sentences hint at one person, but then the next sentence excludes them.
The writing does kind of sounds like Jasnah, but I don’t believe she’d ever admit to anyone else being smarter than her. Or to not being a philosopher.
Shallan is many things, but she is not a heretic, and she definitely did not start doubting her faith in her youth. Actually it’s the opposite, where she grew more religious, due to her difficult home life. She probably wouldn’t say she’s not a storyteller either, and she is pretty confident about her intelligence.
And it could fit Dalinar, since he does like his parables and metaphors, but would he be this long-winded, like you said. I’m also not sure that he would use the word ‘write’. In WoK, when he talks to Nohadon, he says Nohadon should ‘dictate’ a book. Not write.
Then there’s so many other people it could possibly be. Maybe it’s Amaram, describing his switch to whatever type of religion the Sons of Honor follow (old Vorinism?) follow. Or maybe it’s someone we haven’t met yet, or the Sunmaker, or literally anyone else. It’s both interesting and frustrating at the same time.
@@@@@79 Aaron Hill
I know a lot of people have theorized that, but do we have any official confirmation or undeniable proof that it was written by Jasnah?
Josh @8. What is a Kandra?
Anthony Pero @9. Are the Sleepless and the Dysian Aimian the same thing? If not, what is a Sleepless?
Gepeto @19. And to take it a step further, I think that a member of the person who saw the killer looking like Adolin killing Perel told Ialai.
I cannot speak to anybody else, but I already thought of the Dalinar of the flashbacks as not a very nice person. I came to that conclusion after the first Dalinar flashback. For me, Chapter 26 was not a revelation. It was a confirmation.
Talanor’s significance. Good catch. I missed that reference.
I disagree re Adolin. I think Adolin is fine with Renarin standing next to Dalinar. I see Adolin as somebody who does not mind having his brother get the attention he thinks he deserves. Remember, Adolin is the type of person who will help a prostitute when she is being abused or let a stable boy pose in his Shardplate helmet. I do not see Adolin as somebody who needs to be the center of attention. He knows where his strengths are and is confident on those matters.
Gepeto @43. I hope Navani does not become a KR. I would hate for all if the Kholin’s to be KR. It would be better for storytelling purposes if some of them were not. Then you can see how they interact with loved ones who are not their equals. You cannot get that dynamic if all the main characters become KRs.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
aka the musespren
Dalinar seems to be able to hear the evil rhythms like Pashendi bonded to stormspren when he is overwhelmed by the Thrill.
Someone who believes in a different religion wouldn’t consider herself a heretic. She might think of the Alethi as heathens.
Humans are not from Roshar, but Honor and Cultivation also came from elsewhere and probably brought humans there.
They are creatures from Mistborn who can shapeshift by eating the person they want to impersonate (I think they need the bones; it’s been a while since I read Mistborn).
@53: You make very valid points, I cannot argue against them. Everything you said is right, I believe I also stated her reaction was logical when compared to her character. My problem with it is I just didn’t like it, I was ill-at-ease with it. I am still trying to decipher why it bothered me so much.
I also didn’t like the “pity talk” Adolin had for Kaladin. This isn’t Adolin: speaking of “oh poor Kaladin” when he so casually mentions to Shallan how he’s the one having killed her brother. I could almost hear Kaladin scream in the background: “I don’t want your pity princeling.”. This isn’t Adolin… His character has felt so off these last weeks, but never as much as this week.
This being said, the reason I said Shallan was self-absorbed may not have been fair. I mostly meant her story arc is very geared towards herself and her interior demons. I perhaps did not expect such a strong focus on those issues as they didn’t seem as crucial as other plot developments.
Good points on Dalinar and the Sadeas. I did wonder about the very same things. How did Sadeas get so powerful with only a Plate to his name? Also, the Sadeas nephew may never inherit now Amaram is there.
@57: I will put the blame where it is deserved, this one is on Adolin. He didn’t do well here, he was insensitive. I don’t buy he was just distracted, the story has made a point on how unaffected Adolin was by everything happening around him, so I will not be giving him a free pass for it.
@60: I grew very wary of Sebrarial since reading this chapter… He is an opportunist. His loyalty will last a long as he has interests into following Dalinar.
I agree about the boon having nothing to do with Evi.
After reading the new chapters I am torn between two opinions on the author.
1 – Dalinar:
– Oathbringer is his book and presumably (can’t remember if it has been confirmed) the title of the in world book we are reading
– This chapter indicates pushback from the Ardents which we have seen specifically targeted toward Dalinar
– A reference to killing someone the author loved (many think Evi). I am of the thought that if this is Dalinar it will more than likely reference him killing Elkohar to unite the kingdoms. (wild theory)
2- Shallan
– The spice comment a few weeks ago
– Shadesmar (yes all Radiants can see it but it is more closely tied to her order)
– Rambly over explaining. This is something Shallan tends to do more than Dalinar or Jasnah
– Murders that are painful (her mother and father)
I think it would be interesting if writing Oathbringer is the process Shallan uses to finally come to terms with the truths she has been hiding. For now I am on the fence between the two characters but I am fairly certain it is one of them and not Jasnah or an unknown character.
The Wall with steps leading down from the outside, and the girl’s white hair, makes me think of Elantris.
@81: Adolin’s complete absence of a reaction might be possible, but it is not plausible for someone having defined himself based on either his achievements or his ability to embrace his father’s ideals. The idea Adolin should have no after thought whatsoever over his family being Radiants and him having been skipped is not narratively plausible. Mind I am not speaking of outright jealousy, but thoughts, something a pinch to the heart. Anything but nothing. So while it may be possible just nothing ever gets to him, it is not plausible.
Adolin has started to read like a two-dimensional character and this isn’t something I thought I would one day say. He’s lost all of his flavor, he’s become a lackey.
@81 Kandra’s are from Scadial, the world where Mistborn takes place. Put simply, they are a blob of sentient goo that can absorb dead bodies in order to almost perfectly imitate their appearance. They are also generally masters of imitation (mannerisms, voice, etc.)
“I will confess my murders before you. Most painfully, I have killed someone who loved me dearly.”
Me thinks this in reference to his/her spren. I personally think this book was written longgg ago so stay with me here and let me know where you think I may have gone wrong…
Is it possible Bondsmiths used to bond directly to Cultivation/Honour/Odium before the breaking of the oathpact? Could the breaking of the Oathpact have been the final piece that killed Tanavast? We know breaking the Oathpact killed the higher-spren bonded to Radiants – is it possible it was a factor in Tanavast’s death as well? A lot of them would have largely been his “children” so I imagine it for sure would have been a traumatic event.
Now the quote is “loved me dearly” not “I loved dearly” which is interesting. Would the shard Honour and it’s vessel Tanavast “love” this person? I’m not sure. Why didn’t he/she love Him in return? Or did he/should once did…
IMO putting the above quote with the chapter clearly showing Dalinar not loving his wife but his wife seeming to like/love him is a big ole’ red herring.
So, where did the stormlight versions of Shallan come from?
To expand my theory:
The sleepless tasked with watching Shallan tries to learn about humanity by imitating them. They imitate murders which have been committed in rage. They imitate lightweaving in order to get away when she follows them. Probably they also tried to paint in her sketchbook, producing the weird sketches.
The only surprising thing is that they COULD use lightweaving. Or maybe they just modified Shallan’s lightweaving?
@@@@@70 – Excellent post – just wanted to say that.
@@@@@ 86 – You might be slightly over-exaggerating here… we are not even close to halfway through the book yet. I’m not sure what you’re expecting here since this isn’t an Adolin viewpoint. Whether or not he’s the only non-Radiant in his family is a Radiant is a lesser worry than being discovered as Sadeas’ killer.
The scariest part of this whole thing was when Shallan didn’t remember drawing the weird pictures…and Pattern doesn’t either.
I wonder what the distance or location correlation between the victims was. We aren’t told much beyond “Kinda close”. Is there a pattern (*rimshot*) of where the victims are found/attacked? Sounds worth looking into.
Can a victim be predicted? If they can, a trap could be set.
The author of Oathbringer just doesn’t fit any of our main characters. I therefore must guess that we haven’t yet met the author.
I’ve really enjoyed all the story points that are simple and intimate. Shallan and the play, Adolin and Renarin at the stable really help me feel for these characters. I’m so excited for this book to finally come out in three weeks. Sanderson’s writing keeps improving and I’m sure this book will just get better and better.
There is an interesting image of the outline for this book in Stormlight Three Update #2 on reddit. It’s vague and only an outline but if my guesses are correct Shallan’s going to make some great discoveries by the end of part one and then we’ll start seeing more Adolin POV in part two. Adolin won’t be kept to the side for the entire book.
If anticipationspren were a thing, I’d be covered in them!
@72 Elhokar is almost certainly seeing Cryptics, not the being we’re dealing with right now.
@94 Airsicklowlander what is the link for the outline?
I’d expect dislike from Adolin for Amarand but what he expressed was more like hate. Could it be because subconsciously Adolin sees Kaladin as the closest thing to a true friend he has outside of family?
Will one of Shallans truths be admitting to herself that she’s falling for Kaladin? And if so what does that mean for Adolin?
Love and unintentional betrayal It’s an old plot for turning a good guy bad. I personally don’t like the theory that Adolin becomes Odium’s champion (I prefer the sky breaker theory) but this is a way in which i could happen.
@96 Oathbringer Update 2 Brandon Sanderson’s post is interesting to read and he discusses POVs about two-thirds of the way through it.
@88 I like your theory concerning the mystery author. It makes sense that Oathbringer is a book written long ago, much like The Way of Kings and Words of Radiance.
@56: thanks
Dalinar is the author. There will be an attempt on his life that hasn’t happened yet. That’s why the author is not listed. He is mentioning things that haven’t happened in the book yet.
Oooh! Hunny snipe strikes again!
@98. Airsicklowlander Thank you for reminding me of this link. That is where I got the idea that Adolin’s character had grown from the original idea. “Adolin wasn’t even supposed to be a viewpoint character originally (per WoB).”
Way out in left field pure speculation starting now: My final guess for the author is the Sunmaker. The person he killed that loved him was the one who owned Oathbringer before him. He saw into Shadesmar and learned that the church was not right. This thing he believed in and the good people who taught it too him were wrong. Death would have been preferable to learning this truth. He had doubts since his youth about some of what he’d been taught but now he had proof. Experience.
Wild speculation is fun :-)
@98 Adolin thought there was something off about Amaran before Kaladin mentioned the shardbladejacking.
The Thrill has to be Odium, right? I feel like there will be Alethi who turnout to be Voidbringers too.
Isilel @53: Regarding the number of Shards available, here’s one of Dalinar’s flashbacks in WoK
So Alethkar has roughly a third of the blades in the world (per Dalinar’s knowledge, which is probably as reliable as anyone’s), and only 20 or so.
@65 Hawkido
That was my thinking as well, that the dark creature is the one who drew them.
@104 Taravangian says the Thrill is produced by proximity to a specific one of the Unmade. He considered trying to triangulate it’s position.
I’ve seen a lot of people discussing how the fallout of Helaran’s death will play out. Do we know for sure that Helaran is dead? I might be missing something, but I don’t think we’ve been given confirmation on this.
The main characters believe he’s dead, but they think the same about Jasnah. I wouldn’t be surprised if the info Mraize had was that Helaran is still alive. Sanderson has several times made a point that the Shardbarer’s face was ruined by Kaladin’s attack, and the only other identifying feature would be the man’s hair color. We know that the Diagram was watching him; so, maybe he faked his death. It would be relatively easy to find someone to take up some shards. He would just need to send him into battle without training and he would most likely die.
Also, if Shallan already know Kaladin ‘killed’ her brother, what narrative weight would Mraize’s info contain. He seems very sure that Shallan will join them. Maybe the Ghostbloods are attached to their shards as about as much as their attached to their soulcasters, and Helaran had to get them from somewhere.
@56 you may be onto something. Maybe, when oathbringer is found, it goes to Amaram as Sadeas’ “heir”. He says he’s willing to stand trial after they defeat the current threat and we still don’t really know what his motivation/beliefs are.
This may be a crazy idea. Then again, someone else may have thought of it already or even posted it.
DOES ANYONE ELSE THINK MALATA THE “DUSTBRINGER” COULD ACTUALLY BE JASNAH IN DISGUISE?
The more I think about it the more I think it’s true. I have no evidence really other than feeling like it’s something she would do. She wants to return to the center of power without revealing who she is yet.
@96 Guncici and @98 Airsicklowlander
There is an updated version of the outline in Oathbringer Update #5 here.
(Direct link to the image here.)
Interesting that secondary main character #1 (either Shallan or Kaladin) doesn’t have any viewpoints in Part 2.
And now I actually managed to really read the actual chapters after the epigraph lines and comments beyond #9 :)
As much as I would have loved to see a kandra (and the copied paragraph matched so well!), yes, probably this is not it. A much more sinister things. I am really curious about Shallan’s drawings – is she really doing these herself and not remembering, or is it the … thing, as Hawkido @65 suggested?
Other random thoughts: it was lovely to see some men from Bridge Four mentioned again (hi, Rock! And THE Lopen!) and Adolin being so friendly with them. And I might be a minority, but it does not bother me how Adolin calls Kaladin “bridgeboy” – to me it has the feeling of a nickname one might start using for a friend, something used to annoy him at first and then just sticks even if they grow to mutually like each other. The Blackthorn really was a monster, but as pointed out, this was probably the turning point for him, away from the Thrill, though it took decades to be really free of it. Malata continues to unnerve me. I hope it was Kaladin who sent the glyph and everything is indeed alright with him, perhaps we’ll find out more in a week. Also, I have no storming idea, why, but somehow, it seemed so fitting that the Ryshadium were followed by musicspren, of all things. No idea, why.
Oh, and an unpleasant discovery. Only a few weeks, and the weekly chapters will end and even though it brings the book (yay!), no more discussions like these to read … (except for the review, probably, but then, another wait).
My tip is that the author is The Sunmaker.
No proof or evidence. Just instinct.
Anyone else a little annoyed with Shallan’s tendency to hate anyone who she thinks killed her brother? It’s a battle, you do what you need to to survive. You can’t blame someone for killing your relative when they had no clue who you or that relative were at the time (not to mention her brother KIND OF was a big threat on the battlefield).
I really, really liked these chapters. Especially the drawings. I don’t usually like horror at all, but when Shallan draws the cryptics is one of my favorite parts in WoK. So this similar situation was a happy surprise, despite being a little creeped out. The creepy drawings this time around definitely have a different feel to them than the cryptics though in my opinion. The horse head one was disturbing. All in all, the mood created by these chapters was amazingly tangible, and I loved it.
The “I killed someone who loved me dearly ” part made me think of when Jasnah gave Shallan the book of neverending pages. But that thought was probably wrong, seeing as here the author talks about the person they killed loving them and not the other way around. Whereas Jasnah referred to the person who gave her the book as being dear to her. I still want to know more about who that person was, now that I think of it.
I was kind of surprisedthat King T hasn’t spoken with Shallan since arriving in Urithiru. I mean, I understand they have more important things going on right now. But the sweet old man version of Taravangian seemed quite fond of Shallan back in Way of Kings. Maybe the reunion happened ” off-screen”.
I found it interesting that Pattern says that dustbringers’ spren like to destroy things. People seem to equivalate that with the radiants being destructive, but that doesn’t have to be the case. Radiants don’t have to be like the spren, and from what I can see, rarely are.
These chapters had a lot to unpack! There were a ton of huge things. I think these were my favorite three chapters so far. Highprince Amaram, freaky drawings, awful flashback Dalinar, Rock’s hand, Adolin telling Shallan that Kaladin killed Heleran…I loved it.
@53 Still, the thing is that, if I remember correctly, Kaladin didn’t know that this Shardbearer he killed was Shallan’s brother.
Possibly Shallan was “possessed” by the spren/unmade/whatever and made the dark drawings under its influence. As for Mraize, I don’t think he knew who killed Helaran. What he knows is why Helaran was at the battle and who sent him.
In the last almost throw away line we learn Adolin is again remembering the forgotten. That horse head nightmare that Shallan drew left me thinking there may be something awful awaiting Adolin in the stables.
Clearly this week we see that prior to the marriage Dalinar wasn’t feeling much for Evi. But previously Navani had told him he loved Evi. Perhaps he grew to love her.
Still thinking OB is written by Dallinar.
Anyone else a little concerned that Shallan keeps saying, “I’ve got stormlight, I’m the safest person here.”
Awesome seen with Shallan and the play, but the whole time I was waiting for someone creepy to be out in the audience watching, but thought it would be someone discovering her abilities…
@117 oh goodness. I didn’t pick up on the idea that the horse head thing could have been a warning of things to come in regard to Adolin visiting the stables. As if that sketch wasn’t freaky enough before.
@110 That’s an interesting theory, but I’m not sure I agree with it. Elsecallers can’t lightweave, so there’s only so much she could do to disguise herself, and I feel like with what she has to work with, she wouldn’t be able to hide her true self from everyone in Urithiru. She’s surrounded by her cousins, brother, uncle, ward, and her own mother. One of them would have noticed by now I think. But maybe I’m wrong. It would definitely be funny if Shallan had just called Jasnah annoying unknowingly. I just can’t see it.
The author of Oathbringer is clearly Evi. Sanderson never lets quiet unassuming characters actually be what they seem. She is heretical, would have a reason to write a book named after her husband’s Blade, and she might even have been a burgeoning radiant… the shocking changes in his behavior make me think someone has been messing with dalinar’s emotions
Those believing the preface author is Dalinar should question one thing – the preface clearly says the author has seen into shadesmar. Bondsmiths can not do this. Neither can Taravingian as far as we know as a non radiant.
While it may be possible for this to occur, until it happens there is a major mark against either of these theories.
Jasnah and Shallan can enter Shadesmar, and therefore remain the top candidates. Of the two, jasnah seems to fit best – heretical; and the prose more closely fits her speaking patterns. I certainly do not eliminate Shallan as a candidate, some bits fit her well too.
After this week I’m beginning to think that Dalinar is the author of the preface.
Some of the concern about Shallan’s various aliases seems misplaced to me. She does not have Dissociative Identity Disorder, for two reasons:
1)It doesn’t exist. No, really, there is no evidence that there is such a real psychiatric disorder. (Rather, there is no good evidence. There’s loads of bad evidence.)
2)Even if you accept Cornelia Wilbur-style multiple personalities, Shallan isn’t experiencing that. She’s always aware of herself as Shallan-playing-a-part. That’s all she’s doing.
“Eve” and “Sybil” were characterized very much by forgetting their real identity and not even being aware that another personality took over during their periods of lost time.
Metafiction: remember that Brandon Sanderson is a confirmed roleplaying gamer. Shallan is in a way the ultimate roleplayer–she can actually make herself look like the characters she invents.
@98: There is the update #5 to the planning into which tertiary character #1 loses the part 2 viewpoints. By all appearances, Adolin will stay on the side for a very long time if he ever gets out of it.
re 110, Malata is unlikely to be Jasnah in disguise as none of the radiant abilities between the dustbringers and elsecallers match. She also doesn’t have a surge that allows for disguise (transformation – soulcasting does not seem to be exact enough for a full personal transformation into someone else – its more atom A into atom B, rock to food).
Justannpc @115. Pattern said that Releasers destroy things. Their spren like to see what things are made of. The destruction is a way to see the components of something. The blurb in WoK said that the Order was misjudged due to the nature of their powers and the similarity in their name to Voidbringers. I think, however, that the real reason the Order is misjudged is because of why members of the Order destroy things. Most times, they are not destroying something for the sake of destroying. Rather, it is more like a science experiment. The spren (per what Pattern says) and the KRs themselves (presumably) are curious by nature. They want to see what makes things tick. Think of them as a master watchmaker. The only way to see what something is made of is to destroy the visible state and see the what is underneath: peel back the skin, so to speak.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
aka the musespren
@126
True enough! The Releasers are the ones doing the actual destroying. I guess I just thought it was interesting that it was noted that the spren themselves are the ones who are known for wanting to see what’s inside. I definitely agree that the reason for the destruction is more like a science experiment than just destruction for destruction’s sake. I wasn’t meaning to suggest otherwise, just that I found the perspective that the desire to take things apart came specifically from the spren of the order, and not necessarily from the Knights themselves. Though, they could go hand in hand.
And thank you for sharing your musings. I always enjoy them.
i do wonder the difference between “dust bringing” and the ability of a soul caster to turn rock into smoke, like Jasnah did Way of Kings…
Hawkido @73 – Simply put, that is some awesome analysis. The name of the parshendi being derived from a derivation of Persephone and the tracing of all the threads throughout the book coming back to Persephone is great. I think that you are onto something with this. I don’t think Odium fits as Hades, but I do think there is a more sympathetic relationship between Odium and Cultivation than is widely believed (read my other posts to see what I mean).
I think you are totally onto something here, but slightly off target in regards to this particular play. I think the fact that the little girl’s hair color changes to white when she surmounts the wall is very significant. I think this tale is really a cosmere specific reworking of Prometheus stealing fire from the gods, with Hoid playing the part of Prometheus. I think this is a world specific myth that adumbrates something that has been hinted at during the whole series, I think this shows Hoids character, stripped of it’s witty dogdes and verbal obfuscation. He was curious, he explored the uncharted realm which was the abode of god, and found something he could take back for the benefit of mankind. Like Prometheus and Eve in the garden of Eden, he didn’t think of the full ramifications of his action. This totally fits his actions in every cosmere book that I have read an understood his role, sympathetic, appearing at key moments, intent on directing things along a particular line possibly for atonement of an original sin, challenging god and like Pandora unwittingly unleashing evils upon the world(s).
I think that this amazingly beautiful passage, of the little girl who ascends the wall, is one of the finest parables I have ever read. The wall is the divide between the knowledge of good and evil, the creator realizing he has to save creation from his creation (think atomic weapons). I really think this is a parable of the death of Adonalsium, and the desire of a sympathetic demi-god (Hoid) to bring the light of the stars down to man to use as a campfire. Without the larger context, sympathy can be a tool for the devil (listen to the Rolling stones song). Not knowing what he was doing, thinking he was helping, Hoid brought fire to the humans, not realizing that he was separating virtue from vice, dividing the undivisable into elements that were never meant to exist as separate entities. Holy crap, God’s divine wrath tempered by…Nothing. Bad news brother, bad news.
@121 I’m not sure we know enough to know what any radiant can and cannot do. I’d agree that it’s not likely to be T. Can’t exclude Dalinar. Not that I have a strong opinion who the author is.
But, is there anything that has definitively pointed a current character as the author? Given the regard that the Toh, and I’m assuming all Iri have for the Sunmaker, and given the Iri’s heretical belief’s, I’ll wildly speculate the the author is the Sunmaker based on this very tenuous evidence. We don’t know enough about anything yet.
It seems like Shallan has encountered Smokeform:
51th Stanza
Smokeform for hiding and slipping ’tween men.
A form of power—like Surges of spren.
Do we dare to wear this form again? It spies.
Crafted of gods, this form we fear.
By Unmade touch its curse to bear,
Formed from shadow—and death is near. It lies.
Something I think people so far have overlooked.
“Elhokar had come with Kalami, who was scribing for him lately.”
If George R Martin has taught anything its that this can cause problems.
@87. I thought immediately of Warbreaker. The description of the girl being frightened and having white hair, and previous WoB that the alethi co-dominant hair thing is related to the royal locks. In order for it to be the same thing it would need to be hereditary, so the first humans on roshar would likely be from that planet. Also that kind of explains why Vasher is there and that he has been without nightblood for long enough to have it change possession and/or be seen and taken by a Herald. Also warbreaker was originally just fleshing out the back story of Vasher and nightblood if I recall my 17th shard days correctly.
Anyway thats where my mind goes but Brandon has tricked me on more than one occasion.
@ALL regarding Shallan and the drawings – Brandon never does a “where did that come from?” inexplicable narration that seems like a Deus Ex Machina. He does quite often hide the trail by introducing red herrings while also clearly showing the real cause.
Let’s review what we know about the mysterious drawings. Shallan has been investigating a powerful, evil force that even the Ghostbloods are worried about. Also, a new order of Radiant (with a circumstantially less than stellar reputation) has appeared on the scene. Immediately preceding this scene, from a timeline perspective, we have Shallan confirming that the Evil presence that is responsible for copy cat acts of Violence is real and at work in Urithuru, and we have Shallan closing her drawing pad so that the Dustbringer can’t see what she has been sketching. There has been a lot of hinting at Shallan’s personality disassociating in the previous 5 or so Shallan chapters, but just like Dalinar’s supposed madness in WoK and WoR, this feels like a blind dodge, a path intentionally set up to divert attention from the real deal. So, if we disregard Shallan’s madness (which I think is totally in order) we are left with 2 options for the appearance of the mysterious drawings in Shallan’s sketchbook.
1) They are created by the splinter of Odium that is responsible for the copycat murders (and possibly the exodus from Urithuru)
2) They were created by Malata or her Spren. She came over to Shallan without any real motive or intent, other than to mask what her spren was doing to Shallan’s sketchbook.
I personally favor the shard of Odium theory. There is a convincing symmetry between the flashback Chapters documenting the details of the Thrill (where an individual looses personal identity, and becomes the incarnation of the Passion of Battle) and the force that is loose in Urithuru, which also has a personal disassociation quality to it (Adolin, in the passion of rage kills Sadeas, the drunkard disassociated with himself in the fit of a passion of Jealousy killing his wife, Shallan disassociated with herself in the guise of Veil stabbing the horneater’s hand), seems like it is perhaps hinting at the fact that this splinter of Odium is really an idea, which is Justifiable anger. Just like the Thrill is rage against the other (or enemy), in each one of these instances (the foe who continually is in the way, the lover who has betrayed you, the insignificant peon that has defied your power) is an instance where the one who is angered has a basis for there anger and an object to direct said anger at.
The second possibility would be an interesting way to explain Dustbringers and their spren, but I think the first is far more likely. A pictorial view into the mind of a twisted, blood thirsty force is far more interesting in the main than a clever way to explain how an order of KR’s spren work.
Joshua Danes@51 – Regarding the author of the Epigraph.
This totally reads like Dalinar. Anyone who has listened to the Audiobooks, the text of the full epigraph naturally suggests the pauses that Michael Kramer would insert in his reading of Dalinar.
I always assumed, because this was Dalinar’s book, that the epigraphs were written by Dalinar. This is the tone of Dalinar emulating Noadon (Sp?), his personal hero. I think that this is written as Dalinar is dying, and that he has made some kind of personal sacrifice for the good of the world to atone for his time as the Blackthorne. I think the part where he hung between two realms (and saw shadesmar) is where he almost died, but what he needed to communicate was so important that he resisted the pull of the spiritual realm and came back to dictate this book.
He, even more than Kelsier, is will personified, if anyone could will themselves back to life to dictate a book, the Blackthorne is that man. I think Dalinar will be dead by the end of Oathbringer, and I think he might even be dead before the end of the Epigraphs. I think these will explain the nature of the sacrifice that he has made to unite all of mankind against the coming desolation. This is pure speculation, but I think the tone and the end goal of this theory is spot on.
i meant @85 sorry 87!
@121. I’m pretty sure this time. We know bondsmiths can alter and sever bonds. We see in this set of chapters Dalinar share Shallans lightweaving. I can easily see a shared trip to shadesmar going wrong
I saw Dalinar in complete carnage mode and immediately thought, “hey, this looks a lot like Parshendi Stormform”. Cannot be coincidental, can it? Also, it seems as though Sadeas before his timely demise was struck with the same affliction, Thrill addiction. Makes me wonder how many other Alethi warriors suffered similarly. I would hazard a guess that the Thrill was originally an aide for soldiers combating Voidbringers, a gift of Honor to help counter PTSD. When Honor was shattered, Odium was free to corrupt that gift. How many other ‘gifts’ did Honor give mankind, and have thus been corrupted by Odium after Honor no longer had the power to counter him? Could that be what the Unmade are?
@@@@@74. aenea22980
It does’t really sound like Dalinar to me either. I’ve been leaning towards Jasnah this whole time and I still am (although I also expect something twisty from Sanderson to surprise us all). Dalinar just seems too straight forward to write something as ‘wordy’ as this. He seems to me to be someone who is more about actions than words. If theres something to be done, he does it. If he needs to tell someone something, he says it, simply and to the point. He’s not really one for fluff and drawn out explanations. Or not ::shrug::
@131 WHOA! I did not catch that. Granted, there are a lot of things I don’t catch. Most things. But the point remains that you’re right that the freaky audience member copy cat thing does seem to match the description of smokeform scarily well.
In regard to the girl’s hair, my first thought was also that it was related to the royal locks, but @133 brought up the point I hadn’t considered, about possible ancestors, and was able to take it from a random thought to a cohesive idea. But the idea that it’s related to Hoid is also interesting. (Also, sorry if you all get annoyed by me talking way more than usual in this thread. I wasn’t kidding when I said I loved these chapters. Sooo, I’ll be popping up more often I think.)
I don’t think Shallan, or anyone else, has seen Hoid with white hair. Rock and Sigzil, maybe. But he’s had it died black every time we have seen him so far.
I bet Taravangian is writing the prefaces. It seems like something he could say and slight variance between the prefaces could be explained by his varying intelligence on different days. Something to think about.
#63 Nerium:. When we are listening to Shallan tell the story to Pattern it reminded me very much of several times we have heard a story by Hoid. In Warbreaker, he comes to tell the princess stories of their history because there are no books for her to read and learn what she needs to know. Anyway, his story has an effect that makes it come alive, where paper turns into things, dust and dirt build castles in the air, and the music hitchhikes one’s soul. In this system, Hoid/Wit tells a story to Kaladin a story, which comes alive and ends up giving him the flute. Another time when Kaladin is in prison, Wit gets Kaladin to tell him a story about surviving a race and running faster and faster. It is what gives him the strength to come away from the dark mood that has taken him over.
Why white hair. The story that Shallan molded keep talking about how exhausting it was for the girl. Almost to the point that her hair turns white. That happens with Royal locks in Warbreaker.
#81 AndrewHB:. Isn’t a Sleepless what Lift met in the Rift city, the one that killed the two journeymen Skybreaker?
@@@@@ 121 Trok
While it’s true that only Lightweavers, Willshapers and Elsecallers can truly enter the Cognitive Realm (with Elsecallers being the best at it), we have in fact seen another type of Radiant, and even a non-Radiant (as far as we know) see into Shadesmar.
‘For a moment, Kaladin though the saw shadows of a world that was not, shadows of another place. And in that place, a distant sky with a sun enclosed, almost as if by a corridor of clouds‘. WoR, chapter 41.
The other was a Reshi chull trainer, who mentioned seeing ‘a distant sun, dark and cold, shining in a black sky‘ during his Death Rattle. WoK, chapter 4.
So as long as the preface author only mentions seeing into Shadesmar, we can’t really limit the possible authors to just Shallan or Jasnah. It seems other orders of Knights Radiant can see Shadesmar on occasion, during certain circumstances. And some people have glimpsed the Cognitive Realm when they (almost?) die.
It might still be Jasnah or Shallan, but there are other things in the preface that do not quite sound like either of them.
@141 Thanks for this, the white hair did make me think of Vivenna as well but i didn’t include that in my comment because I was under the impression that white mainly indicated fright. It has been quite a while since I’ve read Warbreaker. I absolutely love the idea that some peoples on Roshar come from Nalthis!
As for Shallan’s mysterious drawings again, it seems I’m in the minority of those who think that it was Shallan herself who drew them. Sure, my first thought was that it was that Odium creature thingy as well, however, we know that Shallan is well capable of drawing disturbing things: remember the flashback with Helaran, when she drew her mother’s corpse and the blood stained carpet, the pictures of Cryptics. I think that her special ability unrelated to her Surges is something like being able to draw the truth of things without seeing them. She was able to draw the Cryptics, the Wind’s Pleasure crew’s survival, Shalash destroying the statues of her likeness. Now, what she finds disturbing about Urithiru is that she can’t see it all. I believe that her drawings are revealing the secrets of Urithiru, such as the endless dark tunnel in the centre. The impossible twisting lines that don’t meet are probably the strata. The disturbing horse heads are a mystery to me though. As for Pattern not having seen her do it, the 25th chapter clearly shows that he can be distracted. I could be wrong, of course, and it was the Odium thing.
Been a while, love all your comments folks.
Re the preface: I have to admit, this week has increased my interest somewhat, though, admittedly, this one will have to have a pretty strong reveal in the end as pay off to make for its laborious discussion /confession in the meantime (could be if we read the book straight away it would have been more dynamic?). Save for Navani’s preface comments, I feel that, for others, there are several hidden layers that will be uncovered as we go along, and thus reconsider what is happening and what is being alluded to.
Re the preface author: happy to see more and more people point out the Sunmaker as the likely historical candidate.
I’ll throw in another one to liven up debate (I do not think he was mentioned earlier, though I could be wrong) – how about Szeth? Let’s see – he did die, and he was invested, so he is likely to be passing through the Cognitive Realm (Shadesmar) to the beyond, as per instances in Mistborn; Nale brings him back – so that could be something that is worse than deat – dealing from being released from all oaths,facing all those murders he did – at least from what we see in Edgedacer he is not exactly jovial post-resurrection. We do not know much about his backstory, but the Truthless angle means that he was likely considered an equivalent of a heretic by his people. We do not know the traditions of the Shin, thus it is possible that men can write there, and need not dictate Oathbreaker (also, IIRC, we have only seen male Shin so far?). Additionally, the ponderous nature of the monologue, despite the claims re intellect and inherent skills of the author, sounds like it comes from a learned individual – which Szeth hints he is. Finally, I see a lot of discussion regarding the tone and the delivery of the preface, how it matches or not the protagonists, and I personally am with those who think it is not a very good match to any of the primary and secondary characters – which, again, could point to Szeth.
Re Malata: very mixed feelings here. On the one hand, we have Dalinar, of all people, being suspicious. On the other hand, we as readers are suspicious because of Mr T connection. Should then we be suspicious too? I just realized what is bothering me in a way here (very subjective though, I wonder if anyone else shares the feeling?) – for some reason her introduction is so cursory, so by the by – certainly not how the other later Radiants (e.g.Lift, Ym) or other main characters were introduced, that I get this transitory feeling about her – the lack of initial focus on her makes me think that she’ll either be very much in the background, will disappear soon, or be killed. Sure, she just was introduced, but still, it’s the way she was that makes it so exceptional, so far. Regarding her motivations – I think she ha her own agenda. Re the spren – I really like the idea that all that destruction is explained by an innate desire to know how things work!
I’ll be honest, I haven’t read all the comments but I’ve been thinking all along that Jasnah is the author of Oathbringer.
@110- yes! I’ve definitely thought it might be jasnah, and this week’s conversation with Shallan making her challenge her assumptions if there radiants makes me think of it more. I don’t think her powers though allow her to illusion like Lightweaeving
@19 One thing to keep in mind is that at this point we are seeing Adolin only from other people’s point of view. We don’t really know what is going on in his head. I imagine at some point we will get things from his perspective again and his character will become more clear.
Yes Anthony Pero, that’s a Sleepless Shallan has seen
From Edgedancer
Your war is my war, and has been for millennia. Ancient Radiants named me friend and ally before everything went wrong. What wonderful days those were, before the Last Desolation. Days of…honor. Now gone, long gone. ”
— Arclo to Lift
I need to start reading that book.
the question lies if it might be a friend of the Radiant as was the case Arclo or would that one be working with the VB or a third party altogether?
I’m really curious though how Amaram will do with the Herald he has captive and what sort of information he has gained from him. Will Amaram be another knife in the back or will he be of actual use?
@146- Very true. Jasnah does not have illusory powers. She does have the power of transformation, however. We know this is the power of soul casting. What if this transformation power also allowed her to actually change her appearance? Jasnah got stabbed through the chest right in front of Shallan in Words of Radiance. We know that happened. How did she survive that? My thought is that she has control over her body. She doesn’t create illusions, she simply alters her appearance. That would make it possible to disguise herself and become Malata.
As for others who have commented that she couldn’t mimic the power of a dustbringer, we haven’t actually seen her use that ability yet. Other than saying she is one, we have no evidence that she has that power yet. Jasnah knows enough about the radiants to describe a power set that she doesn’t actually have.
Shallan is quickly becoming one of my least favorite characters. Which is sad, considering she used to be near the top. I figured that her having to speak her truths would actually bring about some character growth. Instead, she just hides from it and relies too heavily on her illusionary personas. Her inability to face anything is tiresome and grating. I really thought she was smarter than all this. But then, maybe it was just Jasnah’s influence that made Shallan likeable. Now that Jasnah is gone, Shallan is just a child playing at being an adult, and doing a very poor job of it.
It doesn’t help that she’s getting an inordinate amount of screen time (page time?). This isn’t supposed to be her book, and yet a large portion of chapters are hers, and Dalinar is barely getting anything. The previous 2 books generally followed the formula of 1/3 main character’s present, 1/3 main character’s past, and 1/3 misc/supporting. This one is basically 1/3 Shallan, 1/3 Dalinar/his past (if that), and 1/3 Adolin/Kaladin/misc. And considering this is Dalinar’s book, if any of the supporting characters should get more focus, it should be Adolin, not Shallan.
I understand Sanderson has favorites, and I don’t blame any author for that, but could he at least not play favorites?
@150 I understood that Shallan is supposed to be further along the path than Kaladin, and yet Kaladin seems to show more growth. Odd, especially in that Kaladin admires her for her ability to cope, while her coping is only another mask or role.
Regarding Malata, Pattern identifies her spren as a Dustbringer. Even if the other KR cannot see her spren, Pattern can. If she was Jasnah in disguise, he would see the lie. Shouldn’t this be confirmation that Malata is truely a Dustbringer?
@70 – I’ve stated I dislike Shallan in her current state, but I do agree with you about mental illness (I have family members who struggle, and have personally struggled with depression) as well as the point that this is a rather accurate representation of someone who is incapable of facing their problems.
However, just because it’s accurate to some extent doesn’t make it good characterization, nor does it make it fun or enjoyable to read. Sanderson fails on both these parts.
Shallan already hid from her demons. We had half of last book to tell us that. She already locked away the “truths” when she was younger. The whole point of her speaking her Truths/ideals should lead to character growth. That’s how narrative generally works.
Instead, with Shallan we have taken two steps back. It’s like she hasn’t learned anything and is instead regressing. Sure, someone regressing can be a realistic response, but it’s not the correct one in this case. Imo, it doesn’t really jive with all the things she has learned, from Jasnah, Kaladin, etc. And feels more like a ploy of Sanderson’s to try and explore these identities and cause some tension — which leads to the book feeling more like a slog of reading what the author wants to happen, instead of what should flow naturally.
But, say I’m alone in this, and this response feels natural. That’s fine, but it still doesn’t mean I enjoy reading about her acting like a child again. Add to that her increased screen time, taking over the narrative when we should be focusing more on Dalinar and Adolin, yeah, I’m really starting to dislike her and Sanderson’s favoritism.
@150: I understand you, you perhaps are stating my thoughts in a way I did not dare phrase them. I love Shallan’s character and I refuse to have anyone think I dislike her character. I love her chapters so far, but I do agree the focus has been heavily set on her. I also share your thoughts when you state you wish/expect she’d be dealing with things better considering her growth as a Radiant and yes, this echoes my own personal ill-at-ease at reading her viewpoints. Perhaps my perspective has been wrong, but I felt we had moved pass Shallan dissociating, repressing and refusing to face truths, hence when she exhibit the behavior, once again on the topic of Helaran, it annoyed me, despite my reaction to her character being generally positive. So while it may be very plausible, I do feel the focus is currently too strongly set on this.
I also agree the focus should be more onto Adolin as he’s the one going through drastic changes, not Shallan. He’s the one who needs to deal with things which could have severe consequences whereas Shallan’s issues are so personal they aren’t really relevant to the main narrative. He’s the one having relationship issues, not Shallan, so Brandon’s insistence to treat everything from her perspective is starting to not work so well for me as a reader.
As for Brandon playing favorite: he stated in numerous occasions he did not play favorite and he always tried to be fair to all characters. I would however speculate what Brandon feels is a fair treatment may differ from what some of his readers feel is fair. As such, there are readers, such as myself, whom are mildly unsatisfied with the lack of focus onto Adolin, considering his character arc ended up on a cliff-hanger in WoR. There are however readers whom are perfectly fine with how things have progressed so far.
My personal perspective is Adolin’s character has read badly those last 3-4 weeks because there is no focus onto his inner thoughts. On the reverse, there is a too strong focus on Shallan’s and it feels disproportionate. Also, Shallan’s inner focus doesn’t seem as important as Adolin’s as he’s the one who’s actions are bearing consequences, so the insistence Shallan has to lead the investigation despite not having been tasked for it, the need to remove Adolin from this arc and the focus onto what it does to her and not Adolin just doesn’t work out for me either. It is a bit discouraging Adolin shall be named to investigate Sadeas’s murder, but not one viewpoint is dedicated to him… doing just that.
I don’t know what Brandon’s end game is with those story arc and I can’t say if the final product will completely dispel my current thoughts. I can’t however say I am enjoying how he is handling this story arc so far. I get it Adolin is not one of his “main protagonists”, but if he wanted such a “no focus” being put onto the character, then perhaps he shouldn’t have made him kill Sadeas in the first place. The lack of follow-up onto this arc has made this cliff-hanger turn sour and disappointing.
All in all, Adolin should be the one doing the investigation and chasing shadows, not Shallan. Shallan could just help him, but now it has become Shallan’s stand alone show whereas Adolin is the one who ought to be determine to find the culprit.
Bad_platypus @105:
Thanks. I have thought that Alethi had 50 or so. Is it known how many shardplates they have? More or less than blades? 20 makes it somewhat more reasonable, but still it feels to me like there should have been more shardbearers on the field of the decisive battle of Reunification – on both sides.
It also seems like a lot of current Highprinces were elevated by the Kholins – with Sadeas and Sebarial being possibly the only ones who inherited their titles. That also somewhat explains the odd distribution of shards. I wondered how shardless lords could remain Highprinces in a cut-throat Alethi society, where internecine wars and usurpations were common. It makes perfect sense that the situation was artificially created in recent decades.
It is very interesting that Kalanor had a Ryshadium, given that there were hints of them chosing “worthy” riders – speaking of which, where is Hatham? And given that he seemed on a similar trajectory to Dalinar – bloodthirsty warrior in his youth, who was apparently becoming more of a reasoned statesman in his old age. Only to be cut down by another bloodthirsty young man. This reminds me of “The Wire” TV-show. Kind of interesting that it was not a young upstart that tried to take Dalinar, but a contemporary. But maybe this is still coming…
A thought also occured to me that Lirin used to be a surgeon in Kholin or Sadeas’s army, given how he speaks of men affected by war.
Also, does Dalinar’s resolution 29 years ago count as an oath? Which he is about to break by becoming king of Urithiru? I am enjoying his chapters, even though young D was pretty despicable – which him being a great fighter doesn’t at all excuse, IMHO, YMMV , but modern-day version needs to change his approach. It is not working. And why on earth doesn’t he have good arguments to put smirking Ruthar in his place? Also, his treatment of Amaram seems much harsher than his stance versus ol’ Torol. I mean, didn’t Sadeas do pretty much all the same things on a much more destructive scale with betrayal at the Tower and sabotaging that bridge? Not to mention how he used the bridgemen – the men under his command? Yet, Dalinar was still prepared to be conciliatory towards _him_!
@131 Good catch! That makes the most sense. Since the Voidbringers are of the Parshendi, the darkness found in Urithiru could very well be related to just that.
Where is Rlain? Could he have become a smokeform?
It makes sense that Shallan uses her old habits to deal with new problems, especially since her magic makes it so easy. Just because she is beginning to deal with old problems doesn’t mean she is suddenly a completely different person. Creating new personalities to deal with different situations instead of forgetting everything she doesn’t like is already a change, she just has to learn that all these personalities are really her (probably her next truth).
If Adolin’s problem had been solved in the first chapter you would complain that it is dealt with too quickly and then he becomes unimportant. The resolution of that story probably comes at one of the climax points in the book (maybe the reveal that he is the killer comes at the end of this part, and the consequences in later parts).
naupathia @150 (and others) – You display here a very common error in our thinking: that because this is “Dalinar’s book” he should therefore be the primary focus of the “current time” action. (I’d argue with your analysis of the thirds in previous books, but I’m not going to go do a lot of research to prove/disprove it.) In any case, though, there are multiple arguments against this position.
One: Two books are not enough to define a set pattern for the remaining eight.
Two: Sanderson has told us repeatedly that it’s highly probable that at some point, the “flashback character” will be dead during the current-time action. Makes it a little difficult to give them their presumed third of the book, I’d say.
Three: This is a big story, with a lot of different things going on. In order to tell the whole story, spread out as it is between several intertwining and simultaneous arcs, some parts of the book will focus more on one character, some on another. At this point, you feel like Shallan is getting too much attention, and Dalinar not enough… but Dalinar is primarily playing politics, which frequently doesn’t make for an engaging story if it’s not tightly contained.
In general, I’d recommend that y’all keep in mind that Part One is essentially a novel in its own right, with its own avalanche – and also a single part of a larger whole book – and also a very small part of an entire epic series. At this point, Sanderson wanted to set up certain events which will have a direct and significant impact on the rest of the story, and chose Shallan (appropriately, IMO) to be the focal point of one major arc at this point in time. Kaladin’s arc will have its own impact, as will Dalinar’s – and for that matter, Adolin’s, Renarin’s, Navani’s…
I realize that frustration with the way it’s written is partly a result of the serialization, where you can only react to what you’ve read so far, but seriously – has Sanderson truly failed in his storytelling before? Have you gotten to the end of a book and thought that it would really have been a better book if he’d done a whole major character or arc differently? If your answer is yes, all I can say is that we’ve had very different experiences! Be patient, and have confidence in the storyteller.
Wit/Hoid told us that Amaram was a true villain that someone like Sadeas could only aspire to be. So, looks like we’ve gotten a villain upgrade. We know that the Ghostbloods consider the Sons of Honor to be enemies and The Diagram to be insignificant – I wonder what Taravangian & Co. think of Amaram’s rise to power?
@63 The girl in the story suddenly having white hair reminded me of Warbreaker. If white hair is associated with fear, it could indicate that the girl in the story was overcoming her fear of the wall as she was climbing it.
@65 I hadn’t thought of that; that’s an interesting connection! Imitating Shallan’s art sounds like something Pattern would try to do. Fortunately, we saw Shallan summon Pattern-blade during the chase, or I would start to suspect that the Unmade was actually a delusional Pattern.
Well said Wetlandernw
“Orders, sir?” asked Rien.
“Stay out of my way,” Dalinar said.
Remember how Rien is also the name of Vin’s dead brother? Could he have somehow made his way to Roshar?
Everyone is talking about Shallan’s possible reaction towards Kaladin for killing her brother but I’m actually intrigued by Kaladin’s reaction towards her… Her brother killed a lot of his friends and people he was supposed to protect (you know how Kaladin gets)… He freaking trampled Cenn (f’ing reminded him of his little brother) with his horse…
Oh shoot, the gholam fell all the way to Roshar!
@133. I was also thinking Warbreaker with the white hair but chalked it up to I just finishing a reread of it.
@162 – We got that in the chasms. Ever since then, I think he’s thought about it once or twice.
@153 – I had the exact opposite experience. I hated Shallan at the beginning. I’ve always thought she was a bit of a faker, but WOR worked really well in terms of making her much more interesting of a character (to me). I would think that we would get a lot more Shallan, since she is the one that we know least about and the one with the most room to grow, especially since we know that she’s a faker. Kalidan already had his two steps back moment and Dalinar just had his current-time Radiant moment.
As for the other not-main characters, I will never get the fascination about Adolin. He’s an engaging character, but not really very interesting other than his mother, which relates more to Dalinar than anything else. A Renarin viewpoint following Adolin as he’s investigating would be interesting, but I don’t really see how a Adolin story within this current arc would work unless he’s actively trying to hide evidence about Sadeas. Shallan is the natural investigator among our characters, based on how her stories worked previously, so I imagine that’s the basis.
I wasn’t a fan of Shallan in WoK, came around in WoR, and am having a more difficult time with her characterization so far in OB, putting aside the fact that she’s a teenager facing a whole bunch of new, dangerous things. Which makes me think of Rand in the Wheel of Time. College-ish aged kids faced with new powers and tasked with helping to save the world, and let’s sprinkle in a little hereditary susceptibility to mental illness to Shallan on top of it.
These might be characters who grow and regress and hopefully grow again , huhn? It’s a wonderfully nuanced characterization. Bravo, Sanderson.
@43 Aldolin is a soldier he has killed many many people and though this was not a battlefield the person he killed was an enemy who had said he was going to destroy his family. Now I don’t share the politics nor the ethics of many on this site but wow do I not get how people think this should be effecting him more. He was never going to break down and confess out of shame.
I agree blackthorn was more a maddened warrior here than some kind of inatley evil person – but then see my comments above. Violence is at times necessary and often the only thing that solves anything (it will be the only thing that keeps North Korea from having nukes for example)
Play scene was great and yes pattern will hopefully soon see the difference between facts and “truth”. I love the way this story was developed as well. It explained the high storms – since old tales developed to explain natural phenomena but it also took a very interesting twist I did not expect at the end that has thematic potential.
and I suppose some will say this makes me sexist but I really want fan art of shallan drawing in the council scene…sounds like a really cute scene.
@69 the person dictating a book deciding on what is said is arguably the one doing the writing – not the one taking dictation. Hence why having ghost authors doesn’t change authorship of books.
@123 um pretty sure the psychiatric manual which is what is used to list psychiatrist disorders mentions it … I mean feel free to argue against the scientific psychiatric community if you like – just don’t expect for me to take you seriously.
@134 I like this but I have issue with seeing justifiable anger as being always from Odium.
@151 That is part of the whole dramatic Irony – Kaladian thinks she is coping but she is doing everything but. I also don’t think we can compare the different paths to each other. To different and Shallan I think is the hardest. How many of us in real life face the reatl truth about ourselves and our true nature? Very very few I would say. Thus she might be farther along the path but still seem behind.
@153 why SHOULD we be focusing more on Dalinar and Aldolin? Art isn’t a science with only one right answer. What you are suffering from is not liking one character arc of a multi character arc book. Welcome to epic fantasy – as someone who didn’t like most of the female character arcs in Wheel of Time I can sympathize greatly.
One thing I love about Sanderson writing about the tower in this is that it reminds me of Kuthlu stories with “unholy angles” interesting to see him play with that type of horror.
@158 I respect your viewpoint, and please don’t take my criticisms as anything more than personal opinion. Of course Sanderson is a great writer, but no one is perfect. Still, I know he’s free to tell it however he likes.
As for my estimate of thirds, it was just that — an estimate. I won’t be going back to count chapters, but I think my estimate is pretty darn close. Book 1 was mostly on Kaladin, his past, and some of Shallan. Book 2 was Shallan, her past, then a bit of Kaladin, Dalinar&Co. You say 2 books isn’t enough to form a pattern, and I do agree to some extent except to say that, Sanderson really likes patterns and structure, and I would also think that keeping the swap-main-character-focus-per-book idea works really well for something of this scale, and helps to avoid GRRM syndrome. But so far I see no reason for the formula to change. Our “main” cast is still Kaladin, Shallan, Dalinar, Adolin, and Jasnah, with the rest (Navani, Eshonai, Renarin, Elhokar, etc etc) as supporting.
As things stand at the end of book 2 and current, I’m much more interested narratively in Adolin and his struggles (since I assume he’s going to get a book of his own eventually? Unless you really think the character-focused books are going to be dropped altogether). As well as Renarin and even Elhokar. I don’t understand why, when Adolin is the de facto person in charge of the investigation, that we are reading it all from Shallan’s POV. What, he’s not allowed to have chapters of his own unless he Exalts, I mean, becomes a Knight Radiant?
@165 I think you’re being unfair to Adolin. It’s clear he has some undiscovered depths. And sure, he may not be the most interesting, but I still think he’s being shunned for no good reason, especially when Shallan’s chapters currently are just book 2, the redux.
@166 I think you’re confusing “nuance” with poor characterization. Based on Shallan from book 2, I’m just really surprised she has learned nothing and is going with the “hide from all my problems, because that clearly worked so well before”. Regression is one thing, but full on denial, with no attempts at fighting it or even admitting it, is another. Add to that her immaturity, her constant waste of Stormlight with no apparent repercussions, and her drunken escapades that always end with Stormlight-ex-machina… yeah, it’s just not really fun to read.
Anyway, I freely admit this is my opinion, and it’s not my book to write. I’m just pointing out what I see as flaws, and so far Shallan’s chapter are simply turning into a slog.
naupathia @@@@@ 168 – I can’t really respond any further without spoilers, so … I guess that’s the end of my part in this discussion.
The thing with Shallan, as I see it, was that at one point she must have been quite advanced and is still in regression, despite her two Truths, and may even regress further. We haven’t seen the arguably most important flashback from her yet, which is how she spoke her first Ideal. After that, she must have spoken at least two Truths as well, considering that she could summon a Shardblade. Well, unless Lightweavers get their Blades with the first Ideal, which I doubt. So there is a LOT of character growth that she has to do yet. I believe she’s at the same place in this book as Kaladin was in WoR.
I get the thing about her wasting Stormlight, but I think it’s mostly because she feels so guilty about it and yet does it anyway. Does she really have to feel guilty, however? This story she told using her Lightweaving for example, she actually advanced significantly in her skill while telling it.
Don’t get me wrong, while Shallan is one of my favourite female fantasy characters in general, I do wish to see more of Adolin, Renarin an Elokhar. Well, and Rock too. Can’t have too much Rock.
@142 I agree. I think the affiliation with spren somehow gives all KR the ability to connect/see a little bit into Shadesmar. Hanging and seeing into Shadesmar sounds much more like what Kaladin did than Shallan or Jasnah. So I think the preface author is a Radiant of one of the seven orders that are not Elsecallers, Lightweavers, or the other one with transportation. So I’m leaning toward Dalinar, and @144 convinced me to make Szeth my second suspicion, with Taravangian trailing behind.
@118 I totally thought of Elaine’s invincibility complex in Wheel of Time when I read Shallan’s comments. Considering Brandon wrote Elaine’s nightmare scenario, I very much expect Shallan to either run out of Stormlight at an inopportune time, or get it Larkined out of her or something, and then something very bad to happen to her.
I love the comparisons to Persephone and Prometheus. I’m not sure if the story has such specific content–both of Hoid’s stories were not necessarily true–the ship and island king, and the running guy–but it’s cool to think about. And someone pointed out that Shallan’s subconscious power does seem to see things that happen in other places.
@168
This is with a grain of salt, but Coppermind has statistics (coppermind.net/wiki/Words_of_Radiance/Statistical_analysis).
According to that, Kaladin has a little less than Shallan in WOR (including flashbacks). That matches up to what I remember reading. I went by % of POVs. Adolin isn’t a “main” character so he doesn’t get a book. See @173.
As for why we’re not getting more Adolin yet – honestly, it’s because there’s no way that he’s really investigating. Adolin isn’t an unreliable narrator – at least not yet – so it wouldn’t really work (from his view) to have him pretend to figure out who copied his killing of Sadeas. Realistically, he would just be trying to avoid getting caught and that’s not *as* interesting yet. He also doesn’t even know about the other murders and Shallan is the natural sleuth/scholar of the two. Maybe if Jasnah was around, she would look into it, but for now investigation has been Shallan’s role for two books now.
Lastly as for the “learned nothing,” I don’t really see what lesson she would have learned by now other than Jasnah’s in WoK. There haven’t really been any truly negative repercussions for her behavior in WoR, not that she “behaved” really poorly anyway. She also didn’t really gain anything from revealing from her truth about her father. At least not anything that I can remember. Kaladin and Dalinar were just as stubborn, but faced heavy consequences later and that’s what forced them to change. If one of the Ghostbloods blackmails Shallan and someone dies as a result or similar, then I’m sure we’ll get more of a change.
@168. naupathia:
As it currently stands, Adolin is not set to be a flashback character in any of the upcoming books. The additional flashback characters for the next two books are (highlight for spoilers) Szeth and Eshonai, and for the back five books are (highlight) Lift, Renarin, Jasnah, Taln, and Shalash.
On the outline for Oathbringer, it is speculated that Adolin is one of the tertiary characters along with Szeth, Eshonai, and Jasnah (or perhaps Navani.) Shallan and Kaladin are probably the main secondary characters, so I imagine they will get about the same amount of screen time over the course of the book.
Regarding Shallan’s progress (or lack thereof) in Oathbringer so far, remember that something similar happened to Kaladin did in WOR. He overcame a big hurdle at the end of WOK, where his need to protect others outweighed his distrust and hatred of lighteyes. However, he slipped back into the distrust in WOR when Amaram showed up, and then with the whole Moash/Elhokar situation. He went into a deep depression when he went to prison and lost his bond with Syl. The only way out of this was the decision to protect the King even without his bond, risking his own life. In the end, he came out a stronger person. In OB his bond with Syl seems to be stronger than ever, and his mental state doesn’t seem quite as dark. I imagine Shallan will have to hit a similar rock bottom, which she will then overcome and be better for it in the end.
@110 That was my original thought as well. I do not have a real way to back it up, but I have a hunch that it is Jasnah, because it would definitely fit her character. And to all the people saying Malata is a dustbringer, how do you know? She has not shown it, and no one there even knows the full extent of what a dustbringer can do. These are my thoughts.
@152 It is never confirmed that Pattern does see Malta’s spren, so this point is invalid. However, I do see the point you are trying to make.
# 170. Nerium:. Be careful of generalities with Shallan. Remember that she had use of her blade at age eleven, when her life was threatened by her mother and friend. Her father was physically unable to save her. I doubt that she called out the first ideal before it appeared.
@168. I think it’s fully reasonable in a way that we don’t often find in literature for a person to find comfort in old patterns of behavior when faced with others new traumas despite previous signs of growth. Given the size of the canvass that Sanderson has given himself to work character peaks and valleys is nuance, not poor characterization.One guy’s opinion.
Name@108:
Helaran summoned a Shardblade in front of his father. You have to bond the blade to do that. I say this to point out that after Kaladin killed Helaran, the Blade stayed in material form. That only happens when a) the bearer dies, or b) the Blade has been borrowed.
So, since the Blade stayed around, that means a) Heleran, the one who bonded the blade, died. or b) Heleran loaned the blade to someone else, and that person is the one Kaladin fought.
But, we have a description from Amaram’s people of the Shardbearer after they stripped him out of his armor, and hthe description matches Heleran. Cold it have been someone else? I guess. But unlikely.
What’s with the new character count, Tor? That’s going to through some of our posters off. Not likely me, lol, but some of those “wall-of-texters” are going to be massively hampered.
@178. unless helarin was killed and the blade and plate were taken by another red haired veden. could happen, but it woukd strain credulity….
I really don’t understand the frustration with how the chapters have been structured so far. Everyone wants Adolins perspective on the murder but I think it would be really uninteresting. I would much rather have the tension of knowing what happened and not having other characters know and watching them slowly figure it out from their perspective, than having a bunch of Adolin chapters where he is worrying about how to deal with the situation.
Also I can see why people think Shallan is regressing in this book and falling back to habits of suppressing bad events in her life, but did she honestly progress that much on WOR? Yes she admitted the truth that she killed her mom, but just because she admitted it doesn’t mean she came to terms with it. Now that she admitted it she is trying not to have to face it head on which is causing issues but IMHO that is a totally normal series of events. She has a lot on her plate right now and clearly isn’t in the best state emotionally which makes her read much more interesting than if she had all her s**t together. I think her whole arc is really intriguing and don’t really understand all the backlash.
@179 lol Also 13000 characters seems excessive. Why even have a character counter? Not even Gepeto is that long winded. :-P
I agree with @naupathia. Shallan’s chapters are a struggle.
For beta readers, the perspective might be different since they’ve seen it come to fruition, and if they were involved in the drafting process with stop-start revisions. But for normal readers who swallow it whole, it’s a terribly long journey. Kind of like those long roadtrips as a child with the family without rest stops. You just want it over with. Journey before destination right?
Catching up on comments today.
AndrewHB@81: Yes, I think they are the same thing. Thats what I meant anyway. Maybe I’m wrong?
@98, @101, @102: It doesn’t make sense to me that its an old book, because if it was an old book, there’s no reason to withhold the authors’ name. In most of the other epigraphs, we are told flat out who the author is. The only reason to withhold the name is because providing the name spoils something in the story. Meaning the author of Oathbringer is referencing things that haven’t happened yet in our chapters. That leads me to Dalinar or Jasnah. I’m leaning Dalinar now.
Tom N Palmer@104: Kind of. The Thrill comes from the Unmade named Nergaoul. This spren apparently moves around, and the Thrill is stronger where the Spren is located. The Unmade are definitely connected to Odium, so yes, the Thrill comes from Odium, and it affects people who participate in violence. The Radiant in Dalinar’s vision, who suggests he goes to Urithiru to become a soldier, tells Dalinar that they have ways of training soldiers that will protect them from the Thrill.
@Shallan’s Chases: The other possibly false correlation that Shallan draws is that the thing that stabbed Rock was the thing she was chasing. She has no evidence of that. At all.
trok@121: You’re right, he can’t go to Shadesmar on his own. If only he knew some people who might be able to take him…
Carl@123: No one is saying that its DID like we have here. People are saying that its concerning, as Identity is a core concept in the Cosmere, as illustrated in several other of Brandon’s series, and losing your Identity (capital I) could be very, very bad.
Ashaman@133: But we don’t know that the Royal locks are connected to Alethi hair in world. His quote could mean that they are connected through his world building process, because so much of the world building of Warbreaker was lifted out of Way of Kings Prime. Including using Vashar.
Ashaman@135: how do we see that Dalinar shares Lightweaving? Shallan thinks to herself that she likely destroyed the map when she left the room after Adolin. Did I miss something?
@141, @143, @Royal Locks: Unfortunately the timeline wouldn’t work for people of Nalthis to have populated Roshar, and for there to be descendants of people with the Royal Locks. Warbreaker takes place, I believe, about 300 years before Stormlight Archive, and the Royal Locks only date back 300 years within Warbreaker’s timeline. Now, maybe Vasher has been busy since he’s been on world? Its possible that a child of his could have the Royal Locks. Since that’s how it came about in the first place. Although, we still don’t know how the First Returned managed to have a child, so maybe that story Hoid told about how the Locks came to be is horse dung.
jotisman@149: Transformation doesn’t transform features. It’s alchemy. It turns matter of one kind into matter of a different king. Flesh into wood. Iron into Gold, etc. That’s why you have to build things out of wood in the shape you want before soulcasting it into stone. It retains the same shape. The exception being when you soulcast something into a liquid or gas, I suppose. But it would start in the same shape before flying apart.
naupathia@150: The structure ends up being that way, in total, but not per “book” within the book. This is Book 1. Shallan may not appear in Book 2 or Book 3 at all as a POV character. That happened to Adolin and Dalinar several times in the last few books, and Kaladin in WoR. Heck, it happened to Shallan in the first book. She was frontloaded and backloaded, and hardly in the middle of the book at all.
Dan P@163: Delightful! I lol’d.
AlerieCorbray@176: But dem’s da rules as we know them, so that’s about all we have to work with. Based on the information we have, we need to assume that Shallan DID IN FACT say the First Ideal prior to killing her mother, and had already achieved the Second Ideal as well. We see a 13 year old Lift achieving the Second Ideal in Edgedancer, so I don’t see why its so impossible for an eleven year old.
FSS@180: Ok, yes, that is another option. Heck, it could have changed hands six times since Shallan saw Helaran, if that’s they way we want to look at it, lol.
AirSickLowlander@83: I dunno, this current comment is at 4290 as I type this, 4312 now, so its possible!
JustinK@184: I didn’t Beta Read this, and I’m loving this format, including Shallan. I want more Kaladin, but I know its coming, so I’m not worried about it. Its totally ok to have opinions, and its totally ok to state them, too. And its totally ok for you to have a different opinion than me. That’s what makes life interesting. But its all just opinions. There is no right or wrong for something like this.
I don’t know, I like the way Shallan has been gaining ground and then backsliding. It feels much more true to human nature. Not to say it’s not, at times, very frustrating to read, but I think that will make the payoff of her truly succeeding so much better. Of course, she might end up failing miserably and suffer a terrible end. That would be sad, because I’m rooting for her, but at least the story remains interesting. Also WetlanderNW in the most non-spoilery way possible said “spoiler-alert: This book is great and our complaints about character development are silly. Just wait.” – Not a direct quote wetlanderNW. And to back up that fake quote I’d like to point out there have been a few times already in this serialization where we wondered about things and then the next week our concerns were answered in the book.
I want the books I read to make me feel. Whether it’s a cheap shot to the gut like when Dobby died or frustration at Shallan or Rand for “obviously” stupid choices made, it’s all good.
The frustration with Shallan and her progress is similar to the mopey Kaladin arc in WOR. That feeling you get when you headdesk because the character has Already Dealt With This Crap and then they fall into old habits. I trust that nobody had issues with how Kal’s arc ended in the previous book. Why doubt Shallan and Brandon’s ability to affect a similar turn around? I trust the process until proven wrong.
@167: We might have to disagree on what should be Adolin’s reaction. Sure, he’s a soldier, but he’s also eager to please and he can’t lie. He can’t make a poker face. The fact he managed to last this long is so astonishing you can’t honestly blame other readers for thinking it unlikely.
I also never got the “stoic soldier” vibe from Adolin within the previous books. Something is very off with his character so far and I can’t say if it is intentional or not by the author. For instance, he says here he always looked to Amaram as he was the perfect soldier, whereas in both WoK/WoR we have both Dalinar and Adolin states how Adolin never wanted to be a soldier and became one out of circumstances. There is a disconnect in between this statement and what Adolin himself claimed (and it correlates with Dalinar’s observations) before unless his Amaram admiring phase happened after he decided to become a soldier. Still, to me, something is really wrong in the way Adolin has been written those last weeks. So either the character is trying to pretend to be something he isn’t or well, I don’t know. I can be wrong about things, but this, it was stated black on white into the books.
@172: If we are to compare %POV and % of word count of each character in WoR, we ought to be fair. Adolin has exactly the same %POV and the same % of word count as Dalinar. Moreover, he is actually active into other characters viewpoints as opposed to Dalinar. There was more Adolin in WoR than Dalinar (or a stronger presence), hence having readers consider Adolin is equally as important as Dalinar or anyone else, without having the numerous WoB stating the opposite, is perfectly normal and understandable.
Shallan is the most unreliable narrator we have….
@183: LOL. Not even I haven’t reached the limit. Surprisingly so. I’m sure it will eventually happen.
Now these are random answers not directed to anybody in particular.
On Shallan: I share some of the above complains. While I did love her chapters, I did enjoy her character and I certainly did not slug through them, I was a tad annoyed at her reaction this week. It felt a bit too much like her former arc and yeah, maybe it’ll make more sense later on. Maybe I’ll feel differently next week, but I do get why some people find it irritating.
On Has Brandon ever Disappointed: I can only speak for myself and the answer is no. He hasn’t disappointed me though there are some of his books I have enjoyed less than others (Shadow of Self) and there are series which haven’t fall within my personal pallet (The Reckoners). Of the two, only SoS I can say didn’t work as well for me due to narrative choices, still I wouldn’t call the book a “disappointment”, just “one I have enjoyed less than others”.
Therefore, when it comes to most critics, with respect to OB, I do have a high level of confidence into Brandon’s ability to write an enthralling narrative. One of the most frequent critic this book has gotten so far has to do with Kaladin’s chapters: many find them too sort and many find the focus is not enough on him. I personally have 100% confidence Brandon will ultimately write an amazing story arc for Kaladin: I don’t need to read the book to know he will have his own climaxes and if his story feels slightly disconnected, I do trust it will eventually make sense. I have no issues being patient and waiting for it to happen.
I also have full confidence Brandon will write a decisively good story arc for Dalinar. I agree with above commentary on how Dalinar currently doing politics, while very important and necessary, wouldn’t make for great story telling, so less is better, within this specific case. I have no doubts it will get more exciting as the story unfolds and the stakes rise.
Despite my current of critic of Shallan’s story arc, I have zero worries it will be worth it, down the road and if I am annoyed by some twists, I do trust, when inserted into the bigger story arc, they will make sense. I have complete faith in Brandon’s ability here even if some of most recent developments left me a tad ill-at-ease.
Thus, I do trust Brandon, I do have confidence in his skills, abilities and story telling capacities when it comes to basically every single character except for one.
Adolin has always alternate in between a soft and a sore spot for me, as a reader. Sadly, the author has not managed to give me confidence he would write a satisfying, decent story arc for his character. This lack of confidence, on my part, does not come because I was disappointed, before, by Brandon. It comes at the end of nearly 4 years worth of WoB, interviews, book structure planning discussions and every single scrap of information I have managed to put my hand on where it was repetitively hammered into my head how Adolin wasn’t an important character, how he wasn’t interesting (because of his personality which was a tad hurtful as well Adolin does speak to some readers) and how I should expect less not more.
Perhaps it doesn’t show into this thread (and I don’t blame anyone for thinking it), but I can be extraordinarily patient, if I know it will be worth it. Therefore, if I knew Adolin’s character would get satisfying treatment and a decent arc (by decent I mean more than 3 paragraphs tossed at the end of someone else’s viewpoint or an arc which ends up being relevant to someone else), then I would close my mouth, bide my time and be happy with what I am reading.
I however never got enough data to convince me it would happen: I got contradictory data, some good, some bad. The result is, while I have total confidence the overall story will be amazing and most character arcs will be glorious, I don’t have it for Adolin.
Hence, when the story seems to be heading where I fear it is heading anyway, I perhaps over-react.
Word Count = 5858 -> The limit is safe.
Here’s something that I’ve been thinking about. On Roshar there are three “people” I’ll call them who hold shards of Andonalsium?? If one of them is now dead <honor> them where is that shard? Could it be the black sphere Gavilar gave to Seth?? Who will eventually get the shard?? Will it be a listener, like Eshonai?
I doubt we will get an answer about the shard in this book, but it will be interesting if the shard is not claimed by Rayse that it may go to a native of Roshar.
Re: the character count. Comments on the site very rarely reach all the way to 13000 characters, but our developers learned that comments longer than that could cause issues, and we wanted to make sure that no one’s (extraordinarily lengthy) comment got lost or eaten. Hence the character count–a warning will display when you reach the limit (or attempt to paste text over the limit), so nothing should get lost (although you may need to break your comment into two parts in order to preserve it.)
@185 hit the nail on the head there. They’re not so much complaints as they are my (our?) feelings/opinions when reading the material. There is no right or wrong.
We’re all fans of Brandon’s in one form or another but it doesn’t mean we have to like all his characterisations and their narratives, even if the endgame does pay off. This of course does not take away any of the brilliance that he’s imparted into the work. People just have different tastes.
Anyway, sorry for the tangent. My tip is that Adolin Snaps in this book due to his killing of Sadeas.
@@@@@ 189 The three Shards were Honor, Cultivation and Odium. Odium killed Tanavast, who held Honor, and Splintered Honor so it is no longer counted as a Shard.
SOOOOOOO satisfied with this reading!!!! Rhyshadium being followed by musicspren. Are the beasts themselves spren? Some cousins of the Listeners? This was an exciting passage, as I love music AND horses!!! Theories?!?!
keyblazing @@@@@ 165
In television and movie terms, Adolin is what you call the breakout star. His fans (which include me) will explain it to you in hundreds of ways. But that is truly neither here nor there. Adolin just came to be.
As an example, up to today, I do not understand the fascination with The Kardashians. In general, no one in that family has any talent. Oh yes, a few of them are beautiful, but there are so many beautiful women in Hollywood.
That said, though I don’t understand, I recognize that for some very strange reasons they became arbiters Of taste and also big influencers. Did you know that advertiserspay Kim Kardashian West $15K if she tweets about their product.
Back to Stormlight Archive – just sit back and relax. You might not get Adolin, but many does. We all have our favorites. Pattern is currently my favorite spree but that can change if Wyndle or Syl become more interesting :-)
I remember complaining, “What about Shallan?” That was at chapter 6 or so. And now y’all are saying, “Too much Shallan”. Ha ha ha…
And these connections to other Cosmere stories. Too much! Sure, Worldhoppers, find the Worldhoppers. But Kandras? Leave them with Mistborn. They were cool there, but let the writer come up with something new. Not everything has to connect to other series. Jeesh.
I cant read only three chapters a week. It kills me. I made myself lay off so I could do 9 chapters at once. I felt much better. Although, every Tuesday I was , “A little peek wouldn’t hurt,”. But I was strong and fought off the addiction.
So, when the book comes out, are y’all gonna start at the beginning again, or go to where the preview left off?
Ch. 25 is my favorite chapter so far. He lulled me with imagery and took me to a new place with the play then bashed me over the head with creepy 2-headed thing and poor Rock’s hand. What a ride.
Shallan has had a couple really good chapters in OB so far and a couple irritating setbacks, but I’ve liked them more than her chapters in WoK… I think part one is going to stay heavy on the Shallan side and at the end of it something bad is going to happen (foreshadowed by the overconfidence in stormlight) and she will dissappear for a large chunk of part 2.
I think someone is out Larkining the span reeds as opposed to them being stolen by the VB (though I can imagine the void spren leading VB groups to cut off communications in that way)
Can the black sword (name??) snuff out storm light like a larkin?
Artemis @@@@@173 – I’m curious – where did you find this?
I hadn’t seen specific names associated with characters on the Oathbringer outline, other than as pure speculation.
Jonah @@@@@ 195 (and others) – Whatever you do when you get the book, whether you reread the chapters, skim them, or skip them altogether, make sure you at least flip through and look at the artwork. I’ve only seen the draft versions, and they were pretty cool; you definitely want to look at the final versions!
#197 StormItAllAgain:. The sword’s name is Nightblood. It first appeared in Warbreaker, which is available on Brandon’s website for free. Look under Library. In its world, it ran off of Breaths, that world’s investure and was a heavy user. It is not clear what fuels it here. Try Warbreaker for a great story, a personal favorite. You will meet some old friends there.
#195 Jonah: In the past, I have always started back at the beginning. :)
Hmm me think the murder is made by a spren that decided to bond to Adolin and it will be supremely awkward when the truth got out.
Also Dalinar flashbacks are the craze, the old man is like frigging Conan the legend (and now I demand all dialogues from Dalinar should be read in Chuck Norris voice).
dwcole@167: I actually referenced the DSM-5, you know. Whether DID exists is a very fraught question in psychiatry now, and I will (literally) bet money that DID won’t be in the sixth edition. Did you notice my reference to Cornelia Wilbur? You might want to look her up, it’s an interesting and disturbing story.
Note also that according to the DSM, Shallan does not have DID.
As for the comment downthread about losing Identity in the Sandersonian sense … interesting point. I still think that Veil and the rest are just Shallan playing games with herself, but I could be misinterpreting. It’s clear that she remembers what she does as Veil. It’s also clear that lying is a specialty of Cryptics, which seems to include lying to oneself.
Nutty Professor@189: Just to clarify some Sanderson/Cosmere terminology, it seems to be impossible to destroy a Shard of Adonalsium, but you can break it even further. (The Shards, as the name implies, came about when the godlike being Adonalsium was killed and its power fragmented.) The pieces of the Shard are now called Splinters. This is referred to as “splintering” the Shard. It is known that Odium also Splintered the two shards found on Sel, Devotion and Dominion. Note that the Seons of Sel, beings of the Cognitive Realm which bond for life to specific humans, are extremely similar to the higher spren of Roshar, the only other known world with a splintered Shard present.
By the way, have you noticed that the monks of Dakhor on Sel have patterns of bone rising from beneath their skin … not unlike Stormform Listeners? What are the odds they both derive power from Odium?
Isilel @155: I think the only other mention of specific numbers occurs in WoR, right after the big Shard duel where Kaladin intervenes:
Assuming he’s not counting Elhokar’s Shards, I believe that’s 4 Shardblades and 5 sets of Shardplate (including the full sets Adolin and Renarin each have at the time).
#203 bad_platypus:. I believe that you are wrong. Gavilar and Dalinar were brothers, thus both were members of the Kholin Princedom. As would also be Gavilar’s son Elhokar and Dalinar’s two sons. I seem to remember that Elhokar has three full sets. So that makes the Kholins owning seven shardblades and eight sets of shardplate.
Thanks moderator! Now we know, and knowing is half the battle!
Wetlandernw@@@@@ 198, thanks for pointing out my error in presenting speculation as fact. That’s one of my pet peeves and here I am doing it. I went back and edited my post so as not to confuse anyone. :-)
I think the writer of the preface must be female. Mostly, because the writer refers to experience as a female, saying she is a great teacher. That is something a feminist does. It does not seem like something a male in Alethi society would say. In addition, the statement “I know that many women who read this…” makes me think the commentary was not meant for wider consumption but written by a woman for women.
I personally think it’s Jasnah. Especially in light of the experience comment
Regarding Shallan and all her “backsliding”, if I’m not mistaken, she is still a teenager. I don’t know if that is really as important an issue in a world where folks don’t have our technology, but I’m sure all you parents out there (myself included) are aware that pretty much all of OUR 18 year olds are lunatics. Her behavior seems to me to be very similar to how someone that age might act when coping with such an incredibly difficult childhood. Hell, to undermine my own point a little, perhaps folks of any age.
And hopefully the word hyperbole is in everyone’s vocab. Blanket generalizations about large groups of people are bad.
Adam Chestnut @@@@@ 208 – thank you! I’m glad I’m not alone in thinking that way about Shalla
I still believe the writer is a spren, likely the one that is Oathbringer.
@208: I think it is important to differentiate in between people arguing Shallan’s development is not realistic from people merely arguing it is getting a tad heavy into the narrative.
Based on what I have read so far, everyone who has critic/argued over Shallan’s story arc fall within the second category. I can’t remember anybody outright stating they thought Shallan was unrealistic or her behavior was OOC or not understandable given her background context.
There has however been people criticizing/complaining there currently was a very strong focus on her issues and some felt it was getting either redundant or too predominant. So while we all want our characters to be as realistic as possible, reassessing the same issues on the same character too frequently can make the narrative stall, for some readers. Some will find it brilliant, but for others the reading experience will be different.
I didn’t read any critics, and this includes my own, where people argued her portrayal was bad. I have argued I wished she had reacted differently to Helaran, but stating it is not the same as saying her character is downright unrealistic, it goes back to the same reaction being often used in the narrative and well, it can get a tad repetitive. Sometimes.
Kaladin received similar critics back in WoR. Nobody argued against his character being depressed and, as far as I am aware, nobody ever stated his portrayal was unrealistic, but within the scope of story telling, some have argued the narrative perhaps didn’t need to remind us so often he was depressed.
I see the same issue is starting to occur with Shallan here which isn’t to say there won’t be a payoff nor it will last until the end of the book, but it remains a valid critic to have coming from people having only read the serialized chapters.
I think that the Oathbringer author is probably Jasnah because of the line:
I will confess my heresy. I do not back down from the things I have said, regardless of what the ardents demand.
That sounds Jasnahish, because of her being a heretic, with all the ardents trying to convert her.
@211 I wasn’t trying to put words in anyone’s mouth or insinuating that anyone feels Shallan’s characterization is wrong.
What I was getting at, very ineffectually, is that because of Shallan’s age coupled with her emotional distress, not only is her reaction understandable, but expected. And arguably warranted, though not healthy. So, to expect anything different from the narrative at this point just seems short-sighted. I really feel like the author is intentionally digging at this point to draw out some annoyance from the audience. Because Shallan would be very very annoying to me.
Disliking that perceived (by me) intent to annoy is understandable too, by the way. But to me it just speaks to a deft touch or skill. Eliciting those emotions from an audience, in a way that motivates discussion without alienating fans, isn’t always easy when the overall intent is to please said audience. But, then again, maybe some have been alienated. I don’t know.
@213 (this is definitely more broadly directed, I’m just continuing the conversation):
Without wanting to put words into Brandon’s mouth, I would say that this book is aimed at a large and diverse audience, and that not every part is going to work for every reader. I think we’re seeing here how Shallan isn’t working for some readers. I didn’t particularly like Kaladin’s arc in WoR for the exact same reasons on my first read-through. It felt repetitive and unnecessary.
So, we may feel annoyance, or sympathy for Shallan. Or even identify with her. And I’m sure the author is intending us to feel these things. It is very skillful. But whether its skillful or not won’t determine who likes it.
For instance, my mother-in-law can’t stand tension of any kind in fiction or TV. So, the fact that a show is skillfully made, wonderfully acted, and even provides a cathartic release afterwards, even when it makes her care for the characters and feel joy at their eventual triumph, she will say she didn’t like it and will try to avoid things like it in the future. Why? Simple, she doesn’t like feeling tense. its not what she watches TV or reads books for. Me? I live for the cathartic release.
So, some of these storylines are going to work for some people, because its what they like in fiction. The same storyline is going to misfire for other people, because they look for different things. If you find yourself thinking that the character isn’t acting right,be it Adolin or Shallan, or in my case, Kaladin in the last book, and there are people that agree with you, but there are also a bunch of people that disagree with you, its probably not an execution issue on the author’s part, or lack of skill, its simply the old saw “You can’t please everyone all of the time.” The hope is that another part of the book will draw you through to the end, where everything comes together in the Bravalanche™.
you no, for the past few months I kinda felt bad that I love Sir Kaladin Mother F*cking Stormblessed more than the rest of the character. Now by reading all these comments I see that everyone loves him
Jacob Dunn @215, yup, you are not alone there. Which isn’t to say I don’t love the rest of them, I do, a LOT. Just … I love Kaladin more. Nevertheless, I’m years past the phase where I felt the urge to skip somebody’s part (which I never actually did) to get sooner to somebody other’s part. I grumble when Kaladin’s off the screen too much, at the same time, I enjoy reading whatever Brandon chooses to focus on. I remember I kinda disliked Shallan at the beginning of the first book, but now I am just as fond of her as of Dalinar or Adolin or … or whoever. As long as I DO have someone to read about :)
Edited: a typo. Discovered I had inadvertently changed Shallan’s sex …
It’s interesting how annoyed some readers are by “Shallan acts up” and by her getting screen time. I found the “Kaladin mopes for weeks” bits of the last volume immensely annoying, while Shallan is interesting for me to watch.
(Also annoying was the “Sazed mopes for entire books” part of the Mistborn trilogy. I seem to not want to read about depressed people.)
@185 Anthony Pero I don’t think we ever heard who the author of the in world text WoR did we? The text from that book wasn’t as personal/individual as Oathbringer so maybe it’s tangential to your point about the author being a spoiler. I think that not identifying the author explicitly no matter who it is would lesson the tension. In other words I don’t think the fact that it doesn’t say who it is is evidence for anyone specifically.
There has been some talk about the girl with the white hair, the Royal Locks in Warbreaker, but no connection to the white hair worn by Ash in the new pictures released with the book. Is there a Lightweaver connection to the white hair? Is Shallan projecting herself into the little girl as she climbs?
Also, there has been conversation about Shallan’s progress. I have lent out all of my hardcopy books, so I can’t look this up, but wasn’t there a note from the in-world book Words of Radiance that described the Lightweavers as undependable because of their personalities? I will try to find that, but I’m a dinosaur with electronic copies of books. I think Shallan may be following a pattern of Lightweaver tendencies. She is scattered and not concerned about the politics all around her. That could be frustrating to someone like Dalinar who is neck deep with political intrigue.
I also think that once we get the book and can keep reading, the issues with 3 chapters a week will not be relevant. Can’t wait to read the book.
@220 I think the Willshapers are the flaky ones that frustrate people as described in an epigraph in WoR. Thus my theory that Elhokar will become a member of this order.
If you are interested, someone passed this along to me: Fishing with Crendor, Episode 33: Brandon Sanderson (Interview on Oct 26, 2017, 1 hour and 34 mins)
Talks about gaming, writing, and other interesting things.
Sanderson on Fishing with Crendor
Enjoy (or not…)
EDIT: Also, this is kinda like a BWS origin story, too.
X
Wait . . . did I read this correctly? In The Girl Who Looked Up, did Shallan’s illusions SPEAK?
“Why is there a wall?” she asked the man selling fruit, speaking with her own voice.
“To keep the bad things out,” he replied.
Sounds like Shallan has finally figured out how to lightweave sounds!
RE Shallan and her masks. I don’t read it as ominous as some do. It is one way she handles stress it is true but it appears to be an important part of her order. In other words I don’t expect to see her stopping no matter how well she gets right with her past. Consider this snippet:
Well?” Veil asked, turning to the wall, where Pattern hung.
“Mmm…” he said. “Good lie.”
“Thank you.”
“Not like the other.”
“Radiant?”
“You slip in and out of her,” Pattern said, “like the sun behind clouds.”
“I just need more practice,” Veil said. Yes, that voice sounded excellent
AlerieCorbray @204: Oh, I know that Elhokar is a Kholin; I just was saying that Adolin may not be counting him a part of the Kholin princedom, but rather as the King. If the real numbers were 7 and 8, that would be _way_ more than a quarter of the Shards in Alethkar (in fact more than a third) per Dalinar’s previous quote that I copied @105. Hence my assumption that he’s not counting the King’s Shards as part of the Khloin princedom.
Here’s what happens:
At beginning of WoR, they have a full set (Adolin’s) and just the Plate (Renarin). (1 Blade + 2 Plate)
Adolin wins a Blade vs. Salinor and gives it to Renarin. (2 B + 2 P)
Adolin wins Plate vs. Eranniv (2 B + 3 P)
This total is confirmed by Adolin when he challenges Relis, offering “Five Shards to your two.” and adding “You win this bout, you take every Shard my family owns.” (This quote also confirms that he doesn’t consider Elhokar’s Shards part of his family’s.)
He then fights Elit and wins his Plate (2 B + 4 P); Adolin confirms that specific total when he challenges Relis to the disadvantaged bout. (“Six Shards, Relis,” Adolin said. “Mine, those of my brother, Eranniv’s Plate, and your cousin’s Plate. I wager them all on a single bout. You and me.”)
Then in the disadvantaged bout, he gets 2 Blades and 3 sets of Plate, for a total of 4 Blades and 7 sets of Plate.
He claims that’s a quarter of all the Shards in Alethkar, giving roughly 44 Shards in Alethkar, which is consistent with Dalinar’s saying there are approximately 20 Blades.
So I missed two sets of Plate in my post @203, but I think everything else is correct.
@221 – I wouldn’t take those epigraphs as gospel. One of the them mentioned that Edgedancers were supposed to refined and eloquent. But then we got Lift…
So, after the release of the full endpapers of Oathbringer I went for a quick refresher about what we know re some of the “quieter” Heralds out there. Now, Malata has been discussed quite a bit already, but I noticed something potentially interesting when reading up on Chana, – she’s associated with the essence Spark, and Malata calls her spren Spark too. Could be a coincidence, could be I misunderstood what folks above were implying re Malata being Liss, and Liss being Chana (I assumed those were two separate hypotheses) and thus implying this connection already, but it struck me as something rather Brandonian to have one of the Heralds turn up for Dalinar’s call.
Thus, assuming the nature of Heralds allows for it, and given that the Heralds are mad (and, therefore, inherently broken) would it not be feasible that for one of the orders the spren decided to bond the Herald sans a Honorblade and thus try to compensate the Herald’s madness and give them another chance to be useful? As far as I can tell, no other spren is called after the Herald’s essence. Then we have Dalinar thinking that Malata could be someone yielding an Honorblade, which could have twofold foreshadowing – either that this is a Herald with a spren, or that she still has an Honorblade (looking over Pattern’s comments, he does not explicitly state that he saw or interacted with this “Spark”).
Read in this light, Malata’s little smile (she’s seen this all before; she might find the fumbling of budding protoRadiants cute, who knows?), her confident manner around world rulers, and her discussion with Shallan take on a new (and consistent) meaning. Not sure if this theory has much merit, but it was fun to explore!
Re the tale in the theater – like @220 I thought about Ash (also mainly due to the endpapers), then Warbreaker. Connections to Ash seems stronger, imho. I also thought of Hoid – would it not be interesting if it turns out that he and Ash are related (he is mentioned to have white hair in SI – like Lift referencing “Old white hair” or something akin to that)? Was Hoid there when the Heralds were chosen, or when Odium was settling into the system?
@225, thank you for the shards tally! I kept wondering about that, but did not have time to sit down and do a proper count. Now that Dalinar and Renarin are Radiants, with Jasnah in the wings and Shallan potentially joining the Kholin family, they could have an additional 6B+6-7P at least (not sure if Dalinar is getting a plate, would depend on the mechanics of it, but I think he should, as that process is likely to not involve the Stormfather becoming a Shard). And we can sort of count Kaladin as a potential 1B+1P for he is Kholin. Thus far, save for Shallan, no other Highprince has relationships with KRs, giving Dalinar quite a hefty advantage with dead and live Shards.
Am curious, with all the debates re character screen time and development, who of the minor and support characters would you like to see either in the interludes, or coming to join the main cast? Apart from Lift, I actually would like to see where Rysn is these days,Axies the collector, and would be interested in what that ardent couple living on a remote island made of the Everstorm.
I personally think the author of the epigraphs is Jasnah. But I literally just finished reading Warbreaker for the first time and , after reading all of passages together @51 (Thanks Joshua Danes!) there’s a small case that it is Zahel/Vasher. He’s an ardent who doesn’t seem too devout, he’s killed someone who loves him, he knows there are others who are much smarter than him, he’s not great with words and I’m sure with all his vast experiences and long life that he’d want to write things down for everyone so they won’t make the same mistakes. (though I still think Jasnah is more likely).
#225 bad_platypus:. I can see you’re busy accounting for all the shards, but you missed a set. Did you remember the set of shardplate that Dalinar gave to Renarin? I can’t remember exactly when, but it was after the King’s accident when Renarin rushed to defend against the beast with no protection.
@many With all the discussion about the Odium spren giving Shallan the heeby jeebies in the air conditioning closet, I’m left wondering if we got our first glimpse of Nergaoul. I don’t think we much about him, but I think we do know he’s moved away from Kholinar and Urithiru seems as good a home base as any for an ancient, evil being bent on corrupting a whole civilization.
AlerieCorbray @229: Nope, that set’s accounted for. He gave that to Renarin offscreen between WoK and WoR (he tells Elhokar he’s going to do so in their final scene together in WoK). It’s the set I listed Renarin as having at the beginning of WoR.
KOOZ @227: You’re welcome! Regarding Dalinar’s getting Plate, the Stormfather says YOU WILL BE A RADIANT WITH NO SHARDS. (Notice the plural.)
I think that the common theory that “lesser” spren form the Shardplate (windspren for Kaladin, creationspren(?) for Shallan, who knows? for Lift and Renarin) is true. If so, it might be that there is no lesser version of the Stormfather and so Dalinar won’t get Plate, either.
This also may be how Bondsmiths traditionally work; in the relevant epigraph in WoR it says “Their [the Bondsmiths’] spren was understood to be specific…”; note that it’s “was” not “were”, implying a single spren for all of them even in historical times.
And speaking of the epigraphs…
Justin K @226: The in-world Words of Radiance is explicitly from hearsay (according to the in-world author); the book itself was written a couple centuries after the Recreance. So those epigraphs are definitely suspect. :-)
Now having undermined the first part of my post with the second, I’ll quit while I’m not too far behind.
@@@@@ several re: the white hair thing – don’t forget that (lovely endpapers notwithstanding) Shalash is described as having “dark skin and long black hair” when we saw her in the TWoK Interlude. I wouldn’t call the girl having white hair a strong connection to Shalash.
Tommy@219:
I see your point, but to continue arguing mine, I believe the in-world author of Words of Radiance was lost to history, and we were made aware of that prior to getting epigraphs from it in Book 3 or WoR. And, of course, we were aware that such a book existed as far back as WoK. There was, intentionally, no mystery surrounding the book. It existed solely to give us information about the Orders.
Oathbringer, however, seems to intentionally be a mystery, in the vein of The Letter from WoK Part 2, and The Second Letter from WoK Part 4, where the author was not revealed to us, and we were intended to suss it out. It was Cosmere world-building.
Compare that to Navani’s Journal, but we were told what we were reading, because the intent of the epigraph was to foreshadow the events of that specific chapter, to heighten our anticipation.
Then of course, there was the Diagram epigraphs. We were told about the Diagram before we got the actual epigraphs, just like The Way of Kings and Words of Radiance. The intention was world building and foreshadowing.
So, we have to ask ourselves why this Preface to Oathbringer exists, and why Brandon is giving it to us. In all cases where the purpose was not to foreshadow events to come, it is self-evident what the intention of the epigraphs are. Which leads me to believe the purpose is foreshadowing.
In all these other cases of foreshadowing, we were informed about the source, and the author, ahead of time, or as part of the epigraph. If we assume that the purpose of these epigraphs in Book 1 are to foreshadow things to come, which, I can’t currently see another reason as to why they are being included, what reason is there to withhold the author, of the Oathbringer Preface? The answer that quickly comes to mind for me is that revealing the author would transform the epigraphs from foreshadowing to out and out spoilers. YMMV.
I took some time the last couple of days and read the released chapters again without comments. It help me a lot with timing of the story. I think reading 3 chapters a week (for what 10 weeks now), then digging into all the comments had me not grasping that up to this point the story has taken place over days not weeks like we had it feed to us.
I also would love to be a fly on the wall when Brandon, Peter, and the beta readers are going over our comments to see the full picture than look at us trying to figure it out must be amusing.
Just curious if anyone noticed the highstorm monster in Stranger Things 2, which could mean only 1 thing; Hawkins is connected to Roshar via the cognitive realm. Dun dun dun!!!!
@235:
I know Peter keeps an eye on things here, but if I was Brandon, I’d stay away from this thread, lol. I’d be so paranoid that people weren’t getting it, not laughing about it. I’d probably start second guessing myself.
I am beginning to wonder if the cognitive realm is the inside of Mr. Sanderson’s computer.
Anthony @237 – That’s why Brandon has such a diversity in his beta readers – to make sure that it works for readers from a variety of backgrounds and levels of familiarity. I don’t think he spends a lot of time on this kind of discussion forum; it would take far too much time!! But Peter definitely lurks… :)
@228 kals_gal, I’m with you. Vasher seems to be a perfect candidate for the author. Everyone else has something in those comments that disqualifies them.
As to favorite characters, I have to go with Adolin. Kaladin and Dalinar are too moody and driven. Shallan is still too broken. I like Navani too.
Here is how I break them all down.
Kaladin is the classic fantasy hero who overcomes great odds and saves the day.
Adolin is prince charming. A nice guy with a good heart and good intentions. He’s the sidekick to the heroes.
Dalinar is the one who nearly fell to evil then overcomes great odds and saves the day but is still tarnished by his past. He may still come to grief over that past. All the boys aspire to what Dalinar is now.
Shallan is the broken heroine with a dark and secret past. She may still come to grief over that past. All the boys want her anyway.
Elhokar is like the middle child. No one ever really paid him much mind and he desperately wants to be relevant. He would even be happy to be the sidekick.
Goddessimho @240. I see Elhokar as Fredo in Godfather 1 and Godfather 2.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
aka the musespren
@@@@@ 240 You like Navani? She’s a seductress. What’s to like?
@242 Let’s go with a definition of seductress meaning that she was using sex to try to get what she wanted. But I see a couple of reasons why her seduction of Dalinar is quite different from the stereotypical seductress. 1. It is not a FALSE seduction. She is not faking her desire. 2. There is nothing nefarious involved. She’s not trying to seduce him to then blackmail him or expose him for political gain. 3. She makes repeated attempts with Dalinar knowing full well what is going on and with Navani understanding that his honor will not allow their coming together to be a mistake, but a decision. 4. I don’t know that they ever consummated the relationship before the wedding.
I’m coming from an old fashioned and religious p.o.v. and waited til married to have sex. So, in my mind, to some extent, naming Navani a seductress is to name every woman who ever abstained until getting a marriage vow a seductress… which is to say, I think she is not. Obviously, Navani was rather overt with her interest, but it was about the classiest “seduction” I’ve read, excepting Ruth and Boaz, I think.
Plus, she’s an engineer. So am I. That’s something else to like.
The only way to consider Navani a “seductress” is to make that word mean “woman who feels sexual desire.”
Nope.
(OK, I exaggerate. Slightly.)
I have a sneaking suspicion that the author of Oathbringer is the Sunmaker. All of the books that lent the books their names in the previous books turned out to be written by predecessors who bore relevance to the plot. Going by what we know about the Sunmaker – uniting all of Alethkar (Gavilar/Dalinar), only to have it fall under a weak son’s rule (Elhokar, perhaps a little tentative here since Alethkar hasn’t fallen yet, but I think it is safe to assume that it will in the near future, what with all the riots and cold wars). Also it seems more probable because Jasnah does not seem like a person who will write a book named after a dead spren sword, especially because she is Radiant herself. Neither is Dalinar, because.prior to the events of the first book he had no inclination to write a book about his conquests of all things – he’s a soldier, not much of a scholar, like Kadash, for example; and in these books we see him move further away from war and conquests. It seems logical this way that good old Sunmaker wrote the book, though I’m quite certain I’m wrong. Anyway, I’m really curious about the big reveal.
rccampbe @243: Re your point 4, it’s not confirmed but I think it’s probable they consummated the relationship. From WoR:
@246:
I imagine the slurping noises of passionate kissing and the moans of repressed desire would would also qualify to Pattern as “interesting,” so we may have to label this one inconclusive.
@246 – I assumed this was just kissing/necking, since I feel like Dalinar is still enough of a stickler that he wouldn’t have wanted to consummate without marriage, and we know that he’s basically trained himself well in self control.
More to the point: Xaladin, I’ve seen your comments pop up on various threads lately and you seem to have an odd preoccupation with women and all the ways you think they’ve wronged you. I’m not sure what has gone on in your life, but I hope you can move past it. I mean that sincerely.
@243 – hahaha. Your breakdown of the situation made me laugh. I guess I’m a seductress too. (Although sadly, I know there definitely is a strain of thought you can find in various online communities that this basically IS what marriage is for women; a respectable way for them to use sex to get what they want (money, status, etc).)
This has probably already been said, so I apologize if I’m repeating someone:
EVIL KANDRA SIGHTED
OK, I think I have come up with a concept that helps me get my mind around Shallan’s need to create “alternate identities.”
It came to me looking at the endpaper of Shallash. The crystal masks and the dress.
Radiant and Veil are not alternate identities for Shallan. They are facets. They are her, but from a different angle. In a different light.
LisaMarie@248
That cynical view of marriage reminded me of a line from The Good Place (s1e2? I’m not far into it, no spoilers!) that I’ll paraphrase. Eleanor angrily declares “She can’t fool me. She’s just being good to me so that I’ll be good to her! I know what she wants.” *brief silence* Chidi responds: “That’s what everybody wants!”
Too late for me to delve deeper so I’ll leave it at that. Cynicism = bad for morale
@102 Great! I think the Sunmaker is now my favorite theory for the author!
@116 Kaladin realizes that he killed Heleran when Shallan tells him the story in the chasm. He is relieved that she seems to not make the connection, rather continuing to blame Amaram.
@158 Thanks, Alice! You said what I’ve been thinking and much more eloquently.
@173 Reminding us about Kaladin’s regression in WoR helps me have more empathy for the people complaining about Shallan. I’m worried about her, but don’t find her annoying to read. I did, however, find Kaladin’s regression in WoR to be very frustrating, even upon a reread and knowing that it eventually pays off. I guess I’ll need to have a little more charity for those who find Shallan’s arc annoying.
A couple of general thoughts:
If Liss the shardblade-wielding assassin is, as many suspect, Herald Chana, then her having been Szeth’s owner and conveniently selling him in time for the Parshendi to snap him up and use him to kill Gavilar can’t be a sheer coincidence, can it? Yes, she told Jasnah in WoR prologue that she had sold him “weeks ago”, but she could very well have been lying. Nale’s presence at the fateful feast suggests that he might have had some idea about Gavilar’s intentions, and while he couldn’t kill the king directly due to his code, he may have manipulated the events in such a way that he was eliminated anyway? With Chana’s help?
If Dalinar is the author of “Oathbringer” the book, IMHO we’ll find out that “worse then death” already happened and is part of what Nightwatcher made him forget.
@253. So if I understand correctly you are proposing Lyss told Jasnah something and then had to turn around and lie about it? Why woudn’t she have just told the lie to begin with?
Don’t mind me. Just trying to work out the forum time compared to my local time. Need my next fix. So far this book is shaping up to be the best yet
Tommy @254:
IIRC (sorry, no quotes), Liss was Szeth’s first owner after the trader and he remembered that she seemed pleased with his work, but then suddenly sold him. In Jasnah’s prologue, she remembered Liss having told her on a previous occasion about her diligent Shin slave. But when she asked Liss about him during their meeting concerning Aesudan (after noticing Szeth in the palace), Liss told her that she had sold the slave “weeks ago”. IMHO, if Liss is Chana – as seems fairly likely due to a combination of WoBs – sorry, no quotes again, but there have been WoBs that we have seen members of every KR Order, if we include their patron Heralds, in WoK and WoR, then she lied about having sold Szeth “weeks ago”, when in truth she has sold him that very day, so that Parshendi could be steered towards him. Even if Liss isn’t Chana, there is solid evidence that Nale was somehow involved in getting Szeth to assassinate Gavilar.
After all, the nervous individual who appears to have been Herald Kalak was telling Nale something along the lines of “I don’t like it, the creature has our Lord’s own blade” in one of the prologues – i.e. not only were multiple Heralds around, but they were fully aware of Szeth having a Honorblade and his circumstances (hence “creature”).
I don’t believe that this is a coincidence. Both Gavilar’s status as a budding Bondsmith – though he didn’t seem to have gotten far along this path, despite starting about 25 years ago, as he was still able to use his dead shardblade, and his alliance with the Parshendi would have put him on Nale’s elimination list, but our mad Herald of Justice couldn’t go after a king directly, due to his legalistic code. He could manipulate events so that Gavilar was murdered by a third party, leaving his own hands technically clean, though, and, IMHO, that’s exactly what he did. Given Nale’s vast knowledge about the listeners and “The Last Legion” and good idea of Gavilar’s goals, he had to know that it would come to a clash – all he had to do was provide the Parshendi with somebody capable of taking out Gavilar. His pal Chana’s little slave.
Actually, now that I think about it, Nale may even be behind Szeth being named Truthless in the first place. After all, he had returned for his Blade at some point and Stone Shamans’ intransigence re: Voidbringers’ return is very similar to his own. Maybe he still has a connection to them? Then T’s “make to use a Truthless” in the Diagramm might have been a deduction of something that had already happened?
Speaking of Dalinar, I want to elaborate from my previous post – I think that _if_ he is the author of “Oathbringer”, then during whatever atrocity he committed at the Rift, he briefly bonded Nergaoul. Hence “fallen”, “worse than death” and brief view into Shadesmar – we know that Radiant spren can give such glimpses (as with Kaladin) – why not the Unmade? And Dalinar already came pretty close to Voidbinding during his latest flashback chapter, IMHO. His visit to the Nightwatcher would have been for getting rid of this connection.
My money is still on Shallan as the author, though, with the bad stuff and heresy yet to come. Though, it seems really odd that she didn’t have any reaction to Dalinar’s latest pronouncements. She is, after all, supposed to be more devout than your average Alethi.
In fact, although I love the OB chapters so far and vastly prefer the actual twists to our previous fan speculations, this is my greatest problem with them – that people just don’t interract as much as they should. It is starting to feel pretty contrived. If Shallan wants to keep her Order secret, she should be helping Renarin get his Illumination up to snuff. She should inform Dalinar about a supernatural monster haunting the premises before the whole thing explodes into a panic. She should be reacting to his new heresy – ditto his sons and Navani. She and Renarin should both be training to fight under Adolin’s supervision. All the Highprinces should be champing at the bit about returning to Alethkar – what with the Everstorm devastating their lands and newly transformed parshmen heading there with unknown intentions. Also, given the … fluidity of power structures and succession, you’d think that some of them should worry about their position being snatched from under them by ambitious highlords who remained at home. Etc, etc.
“King Elhokar looked up from his seat, where he—seemingly—had been lost in thought. ‘Is this legal?'”
I wonder if this is significant. It almost seems as if there is some kind of connection or parallel between Elhokar and the Skybreakers. We’ve seen him talking to Nalan before Gavilar’s death. After the the duel when he tried to have Kaladin executed, he said, “It is the law,” and now he uses a similar phrase again. Also, was he really “lost in in thought,” or was he seeing/hearing something now that Kaladin isn’t around to keep the shadows away? I’m probably just grasping at straws here, but with Sanderson’s foreshadowing, you never know.
By all spren holy…!
Could ryshadium be voidbringers too?
Something akin to the parshendi but they become the giant monsters mentioned in the original book?
The scribbled drawings that Shallan says she did not do, could it be black thing she saw tried to copy her drawings. That would mean that that thing is watching her and was able to get in her room.
Sad to say that another possibility that Shallan does not remember the scribbled drawings is that she has split her personalities and is blacking out so that one personality does not remember what the other personalities are doing.
I’m a little confused by Shallan’s story about the Wall. Can someone explain the ending to me?
“The girl stared at those steps,” Shallan whispered, remembering, “and suddenly the gruesome statues on her side of the wall made sense. The spears. The way it cast everything into shadow. The wall did indeed hide something evil, something frightening. It was the people, like the girl and her village.”
I don’t understand how “the gruesome statues on her side of the wall made sense”. Are they saying that the girl’s people were the attackers? That the evil people were on girl’s side of the wall? And that the “perfect society” on the other side of the wall was trying to keep her people out?
@261, Chung:
I don’t want to post spoilers here, so let me just say, “Finish the book.”
If you don’t have the patience ask in the Full Spoilers discussion.