Lyn: Welcome back, Edgedancers! We’re getting close to the Oathbringer release now (one month! ONLY ONE MONTH!) and whether you’ve been reading the preview chapters here on Tor.com or holding out for the full book, things are starting to feel more real! Until that massive tome is in all of our greedy hands, however, we’ve got this reread to tide you over. And with an Everstorm on the way, pancakes to eat, and scribes to harass, things are beginning to heat up for everyone’s favorite Edgedancer!
The Awesomeness
Chapter 13: Lift arrives in the Grand Indicium and confounds a fat scribe. The scribe sends for Hauka, the guard from the beginning of the story whom Lift evaded. Lift manages to get a message off to Gawx before the guards arrive to arrest her, and she Awesomes her way out of their hands until a message comes back from Gawx instructing the scribes to help her.
Chapter 14: While ordering around her new squad of scribes, Lift learns about the oncoming Everstorm. She demonstrates the type of “strangeness” she wants the scribes to look for, then sits and waits (and eats pancakes) while they hunt through the records. A guard arrives to inform them that everyone needs to take cover for the impending storm. As the scribes scramble to find safety, Lift realizes that Darkness already had an investigation underway… The results of which she can steal for her own purposes.
Kadasixes and Stars
It was good to remember that life wasn’t only about scratchy things. Sometimes it was about soft pillows, fluffy cake. Nice words. Mothers.
L: ::clears throat, begins to sing:: Raindrops on Shardblades and whiskers on axehounds, bright glowing spheres and freshly baked pancakes, grasses that retract and skyeels with wings, these are a few of my favorite things…
Alice: Spren-bonded horses and chicken in curry, cremlings with purpose and scribes in a hurry, Storms full of power, a Wit who can sing, these are a few of my favorite things…
L: Aw man, you managed to get the rhyme! I couldn’t find anything appropriate to rhyme with either hounds or pancakes. ::sulk:: This round goes to you, Alice. So… I admit I only chose this one so I could have an excuse to Stormlight-ify a Sound of Music song. Clap me in irons and take me away, but do it in song in an obvious way!
A: Don’t take her away! I’d never survive this reread without my Lyn to connive!
Still, this was one of the quotations I’d marked, because it’s a peek into the well-buried wistful side of Lift. Or… formerly well-buried, anyway, because we’re seeing it more and more as we go.
L: I hope Lift gets herself a mother figure sometime soon. Kid’s breaking my heart.
A: Hear, hear! Poor child.
Storm might be coming, but people will still need to eat. The world ends tomorrow, but the day after that, people are going to ask what’s for breakfast.
L: Once again, Lift displaying a surprising amount of wisdom for her age. Tragedies happen; homes are destroyed and lives are lost, but for those who survive, life must go on. It’s a sobering thought, but also a somewhat comforting one.
A: Incidentally, I love the image of Lift lecturing the emperor of Azir (well, okay, Gawx) on his duty. It’s a very Lift-ian, pragmatic, earthy sort of insight: the kind that comes from experiencing heartbreak and finding that you still … go on.
L: I believe Doctor Malcolm in Jurassic Park said it best:
Pet Voidbringer
“She’d presented the card, where she’d sketched the words that Wyndle had formed for her with vines.”
L: I find it really interesting that Wyndle can read and write. For some reason I never really thought that spren would have much use for a written form of communication. Granted, Wyndle has proven himself to be a very scholarly fellow, and maybe he learned it in those lessons he’d sat in on for Lift. But let’s take a step back and consider this from a broader perspective. Do the spren residing in Shadesmar have a written language? Several languages? How do they communicate over long distances? Is there even any communication, or are they insular? There’s just so much we don’t know about Shadesmar!
A: Huh. And here’s me, just giggling about the mental image of Wyndle forming himself into letters for Lift to draw. Now that you mention it, though, how much are the spren aware of the human version of written communication, and do they have any need for it themselves? The “deleted scene” about Jasnah certainly implied that there’s a functioning civilization of some sort in Shadesmar, so I do hope we learn more about it someday.
“Mistress!” Wyndle cried. “Oh, mistress. Don’t get stabbed! Are you listening? Avoid getting hit by anything sharp! Or blunt, actually!”
A: Okay, I’m horribly predictable, but I just have to chortle every time Wyndle goes off like this. I do think our little cultivationspren is developing a real affection for the crazy child.
Journey before Pancakes
L: Ah-hah! We finally have some new pancakes to talk about!
“It was a dense variety, with mashed-up paste in the center that was too sticky and salty. The one beside it was covered in little crunchy seeds.”
L: Hmmm… sticky and salty, eh?
A: ::ahem::
L: I did warn you that I’m a denizen of the gutter, no? Anyway, moving on. I did a quick search on foods like this, and it seems as if this is pretty common in Asian countries. Miso in Japan, doenjang in Korea, chunjang in China… (I’ve only had miso personally, so I could be wrong on the taste of the others.)
A: Well, you’re miles ahead of me in the pancake department no matter how you look at it. For reasons unknown, my foody adventures have gone in other directions.
L: As for the seeds… chia? Sesame?
A: Poppy? Coriander? Caraway?
L: Whatever they are, they sprout and start growing a bit later in the chapter, so they must not be cooked!
“One has sugar in the center.”
L: This must be one we’ve seen already. In chapter 8 one of the varieties was described as being sweet…
Friends and Strangers
Stump
“She’s been seen trading spheres for ones of lesser value. … The report says she takes money from criminal enterprises as donations, then secretly transfers them to other groups, after taking a cut, to help confuse the trail of spheres.”
L: Something about this is tickling my poor lethargic memory, but I’ll be hanged if I can remember what it is. If it’s true (I… I think it is?) I like that it’s a clear example that not all the proto-Radiants are entirely good people. Of course… it could just be that we’re not seeing her side of things yet. Kaladin and Shallan did some pretty terrible things, depending on whose perspective you’re considering (Oathbringer PREVIEW CHAPTERS SPOILER, highlight to read: and don’t even get me started on Dalinar).
A: Being somewhat simplistic in my approach to these things, I assumed that “trading spheres for ones of lesser values” was a matter of trading larger dun spheres for smaller infused ones, but on reflection, I’m not sure if that makes sense. Stump doesn’t actually know she’s using the Stormlight yet, does she? Beyond that, I’m not sure how much of the report I believe. It could totally be based on what they expect someone to be doing with a sphere-trading gig.
Or it could be true.
Storming Mother of the World and Father of Storms Above
“Voidbringers,” he said, voice small. “It’s happening. Sweet virtue… the Desolations have returned…”
L: Okay, so for starters I like that he says “sweet virtue.” This is a great curse and I don’t think we’ve heard it before. I like it enough to actually use it in day-to-day life! Secondly, I love how shaken he sounds here. Like he’d been trying to deny it to himself and now he no longer can. Poor Wyndle.
“Tashi,” a scribe whispered. “God of Gods and Binder of the World!”
A: This isn’t one I’d use, obviously, but it’s cool, and it might give a hint as to who “Tashi” is supposed to be. Or not, I don’t know.
L: Binder of the world? Interesting. With all this talk of uniting people coming from Dalinar’s corner, I have to wonder if there’s a correlation.
Darkness & Co.
She hated him more for the fact that it seemed like he did what he did without a shred of guilt.
L: Again… my personal theory is that the guilt – his very humanity – has been repressed to the point of nonexistence in order to do the things he’s been forced to do. I wouldn’t be in the least bit surprised if, when we eventually get some sort of backstory for him, we discover that he started out on this mission of his hating every minute of everything he did.
A: Well, we know that he was the last of the Heralds to accept the Skybreakers as “his” people, or his responsibility in any way. I wonder if that ties in — either in terms of just being naturally antisocial, or in not wanting to be linked to their notions of justice. Did the pressure of the Ideals force him into this rejection of guilt along with humanity?
Everything Else
These supple Azish coat and robes were the wardrobe equivalent of silky pudding.
L: This is going to be my new go-to description for satin.
Lift wouldn’t have thought that they’d give scribes so much food. What did they need so much energy for?
L: Aside from the fat-shaming Lift’s doing here (we can forgive her, since she doesn’t know any better), I just find it continuously fascinating how everything for Lift revolves around food. Of COURSE she’d frame this scribe’s body in regards to energy output – it’s so integral to her very being. Lift can’t even seem to conceive of someone enjoying food just for the sake of the taste and the enjoyment of it – it’s all about practicality, about energy. She’s had to scrounge for every scrap, so someone eating to savor it must be such a foreign concept to her.
“They even had this spren that hung out here, one Lift had only seen a couple of times. … Wyndle called them concentrationspren.”
L: Always cool to see a new type of spren show up.
A: There must be a whole huge section of the Dragonsteel Wiki devoted to the different spren, what they look like, what it takes to draw them, etc.
L: I look forward to the day that we eventually get a “Cosmere Compendium” like A World of Ice and Fire or the Wheel of Time Companion. So far as I know, no such thing is in the works (yet) but someday I bet it’ll exist!
A: It has to! Possibly not in my lifetime, but it has to happen someday.
“…they had so much starvin’ paper in the place that they needed parshmen to cart it about for them!”
L: Uh-oh. That’s not gonna bode well for them when the Everstorm shows up!
A: Well, the job market’s gonna open up a bit, for anyone willing to do the work.
L: I was more thinking that they’re going to create a ton of havoc inside those closed doors… but yeah, replacing all that free slave labor will be a hassle too. Maybe they can employ some of Stump’s poor orphans.
A: I love that idea! There are also a lot of people out there in the immigrant quarter who might jump at the chance. Question, though… if the parshmen were locked inside the Indicium, would the Everstorm affect them? I don’t think we know the answer to that yet.
L: Hunh. That’s a good question… Do they have to be actually out in the storm for it to affect them, or does whatever power changes them do so through barriers like walls?
Wyndle grew up along the wall and sent vines across the nameplates. “My, my. These are important reeds. Let’s see… third one over, it will go to the royal palace scribes.”
L: I want to know what those other nameplates said! Who else can this scribe contact?! My curiosity is piqued!
A: Everyone who is Anyone has a spanreed here, right? Not in this room, of course – this would be only the really important ones, and I too would like to know where they connect. Do you suppose they’re mostly from the Azish empire or would someone like Jasnah or Navani qualify for this exalted space?
L: I’d imagine that if this scribe is as important as all that, she’s probably got lines to all the major players! Even… ::shudder:: Taravangian.
A: In any case, it’s worth reminding ourselves that Tashikk is the main information relay point for the planet, and Yeddaw itself appears to play a significant role, though it’s possible there are other Tashikki cities who also have a similar facility. Back in WoR, Tyn had a spanreed in Tashikk, as did the Ghostbloods and Dalinar’s scribes. Shallan also went to one of the warcamp’s information stations to have a letter sent to Valath via Tashikk, to then be sent by messenger to her brothers on the family estate. So it definitely seems to be the information hub of the world.
Then, slowly, all three looked up at Lift with wide eyes.
L: This is just so satisfying.
A: Yeah, how about a little proper respect around here now? Heh.
“He’s right about that … your Pancakefulness.”
L: I adore the pun on this. Full of pancakes indeed!
A: And we won’t mention anything else she’s full of…
L: Hey! I’m supposed to be the potty-mouth around here!
“When’s it going to hit?”
“The storm? It’s hard to judge, but it’s slower than a highstorm, by most reports.”
L: I wonder why it’s slower. Do we have any WoB about this, Alice?
A: I … don’t think so? But Ross Newberry is working on a Stormwarden sort of article that may, perhaps, explain some of the dynamics. We can hope!
“But what of the Voidbringers they say are in the storms?”
“I’m workin’ on that part,” [Lift] said.
L: Lift, for Honor’s sake, LET US INTO THAT HEAD OF YOURS! What are you planning really?
“Lift, this is your home now. You don’t need to live on the streets anymore.”
L & A: ::sniff::
“Anybody glowing, like they’re some stormin’ benevolent force for good or some such crem?”
L: ::gigglesnort:: I feel like this should be engraved on a plaque under a portrait of Kaladin. “Some stormin’ benevolent force for good or some such crem” just fits him so nicely.
A: So Kaladin can scowl at his scowling portrait? That would be pretty entertaining, actually.
L: Scowl-ception.
A: Also, have you noticed that if you say scowl too often, it ceases to sound like a real word?
…spren acting odd every morning outside a woman’s house unless she left out a bowl of sugar water.
L: This is such an odd little thing to mention. I feel as if the others are red herrings, but this one… this one made me pause for some reason. I have a suspicion that someday (maybe years down the line) we’re going to find that there’s more to this.
A: It would be a very Sandersonian thing to do, wouldn’t it?
Well, okay then. Things are definitely speeding up, and the Avalanche approaches along with the Everstorm. And sunset. Join us in the comments, and let’s chat! (Just remember to white out any spoilers for the early-release chapters of Oathbringer!)
Lyndsey will be taking a road trip through haunted locations in Massachusetts this weekend with a couple of friends and fellow amateur paranormal investigators, in honor of the season. She invites you to follow her spooky adventures on facebook or twitter.
Alice has very little of interest to say about herself this week, as she’s mostly focused on middle-school volleyball these days. However, she would like to remind everyone to keep an eye out for more Stormlight-related articles here by various authors, such as the above-mentioned Stormwarden post from Ross, another Cosplay article from Lyn, and several others in the not-quite-five weeks leading up to the Oathbringer release.
I think WoB on indoor Parshmen transforming is that it depends on the thickness of the walls.
Also, I think the formatting on your OB spoiler got messed up. The name of, uh, the character in question is visible.
Nice!
Stump’s money laundering scheme must have been real, because, as we know, Nale needed legal pretexts to murderize budding Radiants. Which, incidentally, is probably why he merely scowled at Jasnah when they ran into each other during the fateful feast where her father was assassinated – and she was formally introduced to her spren Ivory.
Tashi – “Binder of the World”, eh? Certainly sounds like Ishar. But Nale wouldn’t have said that Tashikki should pray for him to continue to stay away in this case. That seemed more like Taln. And the pancake, of course. And “god of gods” would fit Tanavast better, but he is gone. Hm…
Can Syl read, I wonder? That would mitigate Kaladin’s greatest handicap. I think that we have seen Pattern do so in WoR.
I think Nalan’s lack of remorse when he kills the proto-Radiants is the effect of his breaking the Oathpact. I think the consequences of the Herald’s breaking the Oathpact are to take actions that are a distorted version of the personality traits they represent. For example, we have seen Shash mar the faces of depictions of her. She is the Herald of Beauty. I also had the impression that she was the Roshar equivalent of the patron saint of the arts. For Nalan, it is a distorted interpretation of enforcing justice.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
aka the musespren
necessary_eagle @1 – Oops. Not sure how I managed that, but we’ll get it fixed! Thanks for the catch. (ETA: Fixed.) Whew.
Also, I think you’re right on the thing about the parshmen; maybe if the Tashikki had disbelieved a little more and kept their parshmen in the Indicium they wouldn’t have transformed, it being carved out of rock and all.
@@@@@ 2 Isilel
Not necessarily. He outlawed surgebinding, so would only need for her to use stormlight to kill her
@2 Isilel.
I also wondered the same thing about Syl. Pattern can definitely read, so maybe it’s just because she’s less.. scholarly inclined? She’s very curious about the world though. I don’t believe we’ve ever seen her even casually read anything, but to be fair, Kaladin probably doesn’t spend a lot of time amongst things to read. A warcamp full of illiterate soldiers probably doesn’t provide a lot of opportunities to read, even from signposts and shops. :)
I liked Lift in her interlude, where she was more flippant but you could still see that she cared, but I really like it now that her way of thinking about the world is becoming more obvious.
About the Stump, I don’t think we every learned why she’s trading spheres, or maybe I just didn’t pick up on it. Other people (in the story) said she’s laundering money for illegal activities (also, how do the authorities know that? Do they mark their money?), but Lift at the end says she needs the stormlight. I don’t think Stump knew that though? She seemed less aware than Ym, though we didn’t get her POV. I guess a lot of radiants (Kaladin) spend a lot of time thinking all the spheres around them must be broken :). So the stormlight indeed can’t have been the only reason.. maybe she is laundering money or involved in not-quite-legal matters, but if she is, I like to believe she does it to help provide for the children. :)
@5 He only got it outlawed in that one country, not in Alethkar.I’ll bet there are plenty of laws he could find that she has broken but I doubt he could possibly make murdering executing her legal for himself to do.
@ 4. Wetlandernw
What’s the Dragonsteel Wiki you referenced in the article? I tried looking for it and all that came up were the coppermind articles about Dragonsteel.
Pattern can read, and he can even be a Rosetta stone if given a chance. :-)
As for Syl, I believe she just never had a chance to show that she can read. Kaladin is a man and can only read glyphs so Syl just never needed to read.
Pattern could also read the Dawnchant. Language is a pattern for him.
That sounds like people in our world believing that the fairies will be angry at you if you don’t leave out milk for them.
These are the chapters, with the Pancakefulness stuff, that I felt Lift is a little to YA-ish for the series. At least, it felt like I was reading Alcatraz.
jdgreen24 @8 – The Dragonsteel Wiki is not something you or I can access. Karen Ahlstrom maintains an internal wiki for Sanderson where she collects all sorts of detail, so it’s easier for the team to cross-check things during the writing and editing process. (Dragonsteel Entertainment, LLC is Brandon’s corporation, which holds all the licenses and trademarks and things.)
@2 @6
Even if Stump is unaware that she’s sucking out the stormlight from her spheres, she could be trading dun for charged just because she needs to have lights around.
I just adore your song! I think I might just prefer it to the original one, as much as I like kittens and roses and stuff! *Now keeps humming it to herself*
So … Bart Simpson is left-handed?
Excellent questions about the spren and reading. As pointed out, Syl has not been in a situation where it would be important for her to read, so we don’t know for sure if she can, but if a cultivationspren and a cryptic can do it, why not an honorspren (especially a female one, although I don’t believe it is important among spren, right?)? And now I am really curious about the communication in Shadesmar.
We know that the Shardic intent changes its holder’s over time, making them follow its path. I wonder if Ideals, or possibly the Oath pact have the same effect?
Now, I am imagining the Spiritual realm, and there things like Honor or Protecting exist as a big glob of Identity that Invested people have Connection too. Over time those Identities seep into their own and if they are big enough, like a Shard dominate your Spirit web to the point that every other Identity you are connected to has only a small percentage effect. We know that Spren get more intelligent the longer a bond lasts, maybe the longer a bond lasts the more the person takes on the Ideal and traits of a Spren as well.
Also, I am hoping we one day get a Cosmere Compendium, one with spoiler tags that tells us who the Heralds are and who the hidden travelers are and what all the Spren meant and which ones are of Odium, Honor, Cultivation, or Adonalsium itself.
“We gotta remember. Storm might be coming, but people will still need to eat. The world ends tomorrow, but the day after that, people are going to ask what’s for breakfast. That’s your job.”
THIS. THIS is the biggest reason Lift is my hero right now. She gave me those words when I needed them very badly, and they help sustain me every day. It may seem like the world is about to end, but before and during and maybe even after a cataclysm, there are still needs to serve and people striving to live. I truly need to remember that.
(Contrast that with the chilling finality of “Now the sun approaches the horizon. The Everstorm comes. The true Desolation.”)
I also like “The world couldn’t be entirely bad when it had soft clothes.” Savoring life’s pleasures in the midst of grim peril is a vital practice.
Though as much as I adore Lift, I wouldn’t want to deal with her in any official capacity. She is such an exasperating little so-and-so, as these chapters exemplify.
It did strike me as odd for Lift to scorn someone else’s (assumed) gluttony. But as so much of her life has been a constant battle against hunger for scarce food, it makes sense for her to resent someone who appears to have long been well-fed while being of no respected use to society. Unless I’m reading it all wrong.
Love the filk song! Someone should finish, record, and share it.
“So Kaladin can scowl at his scowling portrait?” Sounds like Lift’s claim that the Stump “once had a staring contest with a painting, and won.”
Lift’s Metaphor of the Day: The record room being “like a mausoleum for trees.” It kind of is one.
@@@@@ 13 soursavior.
That’s very true! I was wondering why she didn’t use candles, and then I realized open flame is forbidden in Tashikk. Even if it wasn’t, there are a lot of small children in that orphanage that could knock things over.
And while other citizens probably just live without stormlight for a while, running a large orphanage in total darkness every evening might simply not be feasible.
@@@@@ 14 Celebrinnen.
I don’t think gender matters that much to spren. Syl has said all spren are basically the same individual a few times, and their gender is based on human perception. We have also seen a few times that spren don’t really care that much for human conventions. But I’d like to see Syl read, even if it’s just to make things easier for the poor scribes who have to repeat everything 10 times so Kaladin can memorize it. :)
That looks very much like a Pratchettism to me.
I dunno. Pratchett’s apocapyses tend to be averted, not survived. A character might well say something like that, but we haven’t seen it play out. Granted, we haven’t seen this Desolation through, but I appreciate the faith — or at least the claim — that it might be survived. There’s Cosmere precedence for that.
just posting to put this in my conversations
Alice, Lyndsey, necessary_eagle…
From the 2016 JordanCon RAFOlympics:
“Q: A dullform Listener is indoors when the Everstorm passes over, will they be transformed into a Voidform?
A: No. It depends on the strength of the boundary between them, but it is possible for them to…Being transformed, taking new forms, there is, there is… a measure of will behind it, meaning for instance, even when Eshonai took the new form, she had herself open to taking a new form. By the time she didn’t want to, it was too late. But she had made the decision, even though she’d been kind of misled in some ways. If a parshmen were even in the Everstorm, and aggressively didn’t want this to happen, I’m not saying they won’t, but there is room for discussion whether or not they would change there. Does that make sence? [Yes] But also one who DOES want to, and there’s only a pane of glass and things like that, then yeah.”
The question I intended to ask was if a slaveform Listener would be transformed. However, it doesn’t appear to matter in the situation under discussion: thick walls = strong boundary, and I wouldn’t think parshmen have much in the way of intent (will to change), so no. Although the concept of intent on the part of parshmen could be an interesting discussion topic.
…salty? What have the men in your life been eating? I associate that particular…compound with bitterness, myself.
ON TOPIC, I like the detail that Wyndle sends his vines over the plates to read them, like he’s actually checking their Cognitive aspects. “I am a nameplate. I say ‘Tashikk’.”
Huh. The fact that Wyndle send his vines over the nameplates to read them is.. interesting. We don’t see him do that with other things he reads, do we? Considering the fact that those nameplates are probably metal, it reminded me of Mistborn, [where people who are in the cognitive realm cannot see/read metals. They all look like very bright lights.] (Do we have to hide spoilers for Mistborn and MB: Secret History in this reread?)
Now Wyndle is mostly in the cognitive realm still, as he mentions to Lift in the first interlude she can probably touch him because she is also partially in the cognitive realm. Does that mean he cannot see the nameplates, and he has to use the small bit of his form that is in the physical realm to read the text like braille? It would be nice connection with the cosmere if it’s true. :)
@23 My understanding is that metal is too bright to read from the Cognitive Realm in Mistborn because metals are full of Investiture. Which makes me think that metal got investiture because it’s an intersection between Ruin and Preservation; it’s a solid unchanging substance but it can also rust or oxidize away (leaving aside gold and other metals which are inconveniently non-interacting with oxygen, which I’ll blame on Sanderson not being a chemist). Some metals, like aluminum and stainless steel oxidize very slightly and then stop, which also seems thematically appropriate to the shards.
That wouldn’t be true of worlds in the Cosmere which stashes Investiture elsewhere.
Regarding the slowness of the Everstorm, could it be that the rotation of the planet affects the speed of the storms differently, since they’re traveling in opposite directions?
@24 noblehunter.
I’m not sure why metal has become the conduit for magic on Scadrial, and your theory is possible, but I’d like to make some other arguments for why metal would function the same across all Cosmere worlds. We know Ruin’s body is made of metal, as are shardblades on Roshar. So metal might be connected to the way shards or pieces of shards manifest in the physical realm.
I also believe that the entire Cosmere is based around one magic system that manifests in different ways across worlds, but there are overarching systems that are present everywhere (Identity, Connection, you need a cracked soul to let investiture in, Aluminium is a bit weird, etc)
So, in Mistborn we’ve seen that even uninvested metals, such as random iron bars, spearheads, metal plates are all unreadable because they’re too bright to look at from the cognitive realm. The same is true of human souls. In the almost-canon Jasnah interlude that is floating somewhere around this site, from just after the shipwreck, she also sees human souls the same way.
So I don’t believe metals are just invested or different just because they’re from Scadrial, as from WoBs we know allomancers/feruchemists can use metal from every world. They just have to make sure it has the right composition. So in that case, they’d have to act the same, and have the same cognitive characteristics across worlds. And because of that, they might then be a bit bright for Wyndle to see.
@22 The taste traditionally assigned is “salty,” at least it is in the joke when the biology teacher says it’s full of sugars and the student asks why it tastes so salty.
@26 I should look up Jasnah’s prologue, to see if she metal while in the cognitive realm. I was pretty sure all Scadrian metal is somehow invested and hence too bright to see clearly on the other side, which would imply metal elsewhere, not being similarly invested, can be seen clearly.
More on topic, anyone having any luck completing the filk about Lift’s favorite things? We should at least get a bad things verse.
Somebody should ask Brandon to clarify if metal has any particular inherent quality, because I could have sworn in one of the other non-Scadrial books (although I can’t remember it now) there was some other offhand reference to metal (or maybe aluminum) being some kind of special case, or an exception to something, etc.
(Although I know silver is also special in Shadows For Silence In the Forest of Hell).
The ‘mother’ comment always squeezes my heart.
@28 I seem to remember that comment about aluminum, too. It’d almost have to be Emperor’s Soul or Warbreaker though.
Maybe in Warbreaker? Am I right in remembering that it is very hard to Awaken metal?
@28-30 in one of Shallan’s flashbacks, they mention Aluminum only exists through Soulcasting.
Also I believe the shardblade guards are made of aluminum.
Aluminium is indeed a weird metal, which is why I singled it out in my earlier comment. The coppermind wiki has some very interesting info about it.
Apparently, aluminium is magically inert. In the Emperor’s Soul, it cannot be altered via forgery (it’s called Ralkalest there). On Nalthis, apprently aluminium cannot be awakened, and it can be used in some way to prevent someone from Returning.
On Roshar, aluminium can only be made through soulcasting. Shardblades’ cutting abilities do not work on aluminium.
On Scadrial alluminium cannot be Pushed, Pulled or detected with iron/steelsight.
So that’s at least one example of a metal behaving similarly throughout most of the Cosmere. One conclusion was that it cannot be invested, though I don’t know if this is a theory or if it has been confirmed. But if it’s true, if we could find out if aluminium is also shiny from the cognitive realm on Scadrial, we know if it’s the investment in the metals that makes them too bright to see, or if it’s something else.
I thought silver was also Allometically inert? I wonder if that has anything to with it’s effect on shades on Threnody. IIRC, it can’t be burnt by Allomancers or store anything for Ferruchemists.
ChocolateRob @7:
“I’ll bet there are plenty of laws he could find that she has broken but I doubt he could possibly make murdering executing her legal for himself to do.”
But that was exactly Nalan’s MO with Ym and Lift! He even explained to Ym how he had to dig really deep to find his crime, so that he could then execute him. And with Lift we saw him get an actual death warrant for her, which is likely what he did with all his victims to satisfy his perverted sense of “justice”. Which is why he didn’t go after Jasnah and Gavilar, despite being there at the fateful feast, and why he had to let Lift go after Gawx pardoned her.
We have also seen both in Lift’s Interlude and here with that poor thief that Nalan used antiquitated and forgotten laws to achieve his aims and, in case of that Azish clerk who signed Lift’s death sentence also something very much like supernatural persuasion/hypnotism. Which I wonder about – because while it would be fitting as a Skybreaker Resonance, the Honorblades don’t bestow those, right?
Therefore, I am certain that Stump was indeed running a sphere-laundering operation, not to mention that she needed funds to run her orphange and didn’t seem rich enough to have them legally. As a by-product of her activities, she got to invest stormlight without noticing and had a steady supply of it.
I also now question the demise of Teft’s Envisager sect – their mass execution by the local lord after a young boy’s complaint seemed like a random atrocitiy, but maybe it wasn’t, after all?
Additionally, maybe while Nalan couldn’t justify direct murder of budding Radiants without a legalistic fig leaf for himself or his immediate followers, he wasn’t above indirectly encouraging people more tangentially connected to take matters into their own hands? Like that “friend” of Lady Davar’s? Nale must have been at Gavilar’s court during the Parshendi treaty celebration for a reason too, even if he couldn’t personally kill the Kholins. He did seem to know an awful lot about Szeth at the end of WoR – how long had he been watching our Truthless?
And now something only tangentially related – did we see any human slaves in Lift’s PoVs? In Vorin cultures people can be enslaved for crime and debt, but IIRC nobody suggests such a punishment for the thieves neither in her Interlude, nor here in Edgedancer novella? Does this mean that Azish and Tashikki don’t practice human slavery?
@33 tons o’ metals are Allomantically inert. There are only 16 Allomantic metals, after all, and even different versions of alloys don’t work – there’s only one Allomantic pewter, or bendalloy, or whatever.
Actually, aluminum isn’t Allomantically, Feruchemically, or Hemalurgically inert. It can be burned, it stores Identity, and it steals enhancement Allomancy. It just can’t be Pushed or Pulled on. It does seem to be more magically inert in other systems, such as on Sel, but if it were magically inert on Roshar, would Soulcasting even work on it? Or maybe you can turn stuff INTO aluminum, but you can’t turn aluminum into other stuff.
So perhaps it’s best to phrase it like this: aluminum can STORE Investiture, but Investiture cannot pass through aluminum.
IIRC, silver was originally intended to be The One Funky Metal, but Brandon decided to change to to aluminum while he was writing Mistborn. Quick glance at the coppermind shows this to be from the Hero of Ages annotations.
Is it not due to the counter-High Storm that the Stormfather generated to oppose the Everstorm? IIRC he said it would slow and weaken the Everstorm, not enough to render it harmless but enough that perhaps some of the sturdier structures in the world would be able to survive despite it coming from the wrong direction.
@@@@@ 35 SunDriedRainbow
Yes, but would the fact that aluminium has similar properties (though not exactly the same) across worlds mean that metal on Roshar glows in the cognitive realm as well? I’m really curious to see if there is any canon mention of that.
@37 elle It’s definitely a very interesting question. I don’t have an answer, but here are my thoughts:
1) We know that metal is Special in the cosmere – it’s the way Shards express themselves physically. Living ShardThings must be made of metal.
2) On Scadrial in particular, metal is Extra Special, because it’s the focus of the magic there. Focuses are primarily a function of the World, and then secondarily of the Shard, so Scadrial is what makes metal More Specialer than on other Shardworlds. This may be the reason metal shines so brightly in the Cognitive Realm on Scadrial, but isn’t noticeable in Shadesmar on Roshar (the only other place we’ve gotten a good look at the CR as far as I can remember).
3) That leads us to the next question – do gems (one of the focuses on Roshar) shine more brightly in Shadesmar? We know that spren have completely different appearances, and they’re the other known focus. I can’t recall Shallan specifically mentioning what gems look like, she always just kind of has the Stormlight already when she’s in Shadesmar.
The aluminum discussion is very interesting. Thanks all.
However, I have a very non-Stormlight, but Cosmere publishing related question. I was going through my junk email account, and just saw that I received an email from Amazon last Monday that the 2nd volume of the Whitesand graphic novels was going to be released November 1st. When I click on the link to Amazon, it now says that the hardcover will release Nov. 21 and that the ebook can be delivered Nov. 8th.
1. I think this would be probably not be A+ publishing strategy with Oathbringer coming out Nov. 14.
2. I see nothing on Brandon’s website, and I have seen nothing on his social media.
Does Alice or anyone else know what is going on? (Does Peter ever read these comments?) Have the graphic novel collaborators gone rogue?! =)
@@@@@ 38 SunDriedRainbow
I just think it’d be funny if Ruin and the Lord Ruler spend aeons attempting to one-up each other, all based around the problem of metal being too bright to read from the Cognitive Realm, and Wyndle is just like, well, I’ll feel the inscription and see what it reads that way. Though he does have a bit of an advantage, being partially in the physical realm. :)
I’m not sure about Shadesmar, and I don’t think anyone has spend time looking at metal from the CR in Roshar. Jasnah has seen souls though, and they shine just as brightly as they did from the Scadrian CR.
While both Jasnah and Shallan have carried stormlight into the Cognitive Realm, I don’t think they’ve ever mentioned that it is brighter, or even still ‘light’ in that realm. Though of course they had inhaled it by that time. So I don’t know. Light is light though, and they might not have noticed. A small increase in brightness would be more difficult to spot.
Patillian @30 – I can’t find it right now, but I’m pretty sure Peter said that the release of White Sand Vol. 2 was going to be delayed. When I find what he said, I’ll let you know.
ETA: fairly recently, word was that it would be bumped at least a couple of months. The artwork isn’t finished yet.
@40 elle Imagine if Ruin and Wyndle had teamed up…Scadrial would be D O O M E D
@@@@@ 42 SunDriedRainbow
That’s it, we’ve found the great Cosmere crossover event :D. Though to be honest, I think from all the shards that we know, Cultivation is probably the shard Ruin feels is most similar to him. I think they’d work well together.
@43 – where are you getting that comparison? If anything, Cultivation is even more of an opposite to Ruin as Preservation is.
I could get getting the meanings wrong, but to me Cultivation represents active growth, Preservation is stasis and Ruin is active decay. So perhaps they would actually *balance* each other better; is that what you mean by similar?
@43 I thought Ruin was of a kind with Odium, though I think Ruin would be more impersonal.
Please read my comments with the caveat that I am speculating based on my own interpretation of things, since I don’t think we’ve gotten a lot of information about this subject yet in canon. I could be totally wrong.
@@@@@ 44 Lisamarie
Maybe it’s my own interpretation of Cultivation, but nature goes through cycles of growth and death, and I think Ruin could probably identify with the second part of that. He might like spring less though :). I guess when I say he feels most similar to it, it is more of a mindset, maybe? Preservation might be his technical opposite, but their ways of viewing the world are completely different. Cultivation understands sometimes things have to die (so new things can grow in the future). If you see Cultivation as only focused on growth instead of that more balanced summer/winter, harvest/planting image, you could say she would balance out Ruin, being active growth versus active decay, like you said.
@@@@@ 45 noblehunter
Interestingly enough, I don’t think Ruin and Odium are similar. What the coppermind says is that Ruin seeks change. ‘It is not inherently evil, because without death there is no change, but its destructive actions are often contrary to life existing peacefully.’. Ruin believes change is the best thing for the world, that it is wonderful, and he wants to share it with everyone. The problem is that no one agrees with him. Odium, on the other hand, is afraid of changing. He doesn’t absorb the powers of the shards he’s defeated, because he is afraid that they will change him. He simply hates everyone, and is probably content being hated in return.
@46 From what we see of Ruin in the books, he wants not just change but an end. He seemed only content in change that broke down or destroyed something. He has no interest in change that builds up or improves, except in that there will be more to destroy later.
Odium desires those same changes, though he’ll probably want you to suffer while they happen.
@@@@@ 47 noblehunter
True, from Hero of Ages it really seems that Ruin wants to end all live on Scadrial, as was promised to him. Yet he embodies entropy and change, not death. I can’t see him being happy staying on the completely empty, unchanging planet after that.
I’m not sure Odium wants change in the same way Ruin does. It seems to me as if Odium simply wants to get rid of all his possible rivals, and then everyone else. But everything we know is very fragmented so far. On the other hand, we seem to have drifted quite far off the topic of the Edgedancer chapters.
To switch the subject, if Darkness/Nale hated his mission in the beginning, what sort of arguments did Ishar use to convince him? I can’t believe Mr ‘you have not filled out the proper paperwork to execute people in this city‘ would accept anything less than a long and extensive argument, with evidence and a complete list of references.
Skybreakers believe the law, and I’m guessing also oaths (based on that WoB that highspren might believe they are the closest to Honor, as they always keep their oaths), must be put above anything else. if that’s true, why did Nale originally break his oath? If Honor died sometime after the Recreance, we know he must’ve still been alive during the breaking of the Oathpact. I don’t think Nale believes he is a hypocrite (though he probably is), considering he still sees himself as some superior arbiter of justice. So he must have some sort of explanation to himself that breaking his oath was.. the only way to keep his oath?
@46, 48 – my interpretation would be that Cultivation only represents one half of that life cycle you mention. I get the feeling that none of the shards, on their own, are sustainable, and also that (aside from Odium, arguably) none of them are truly bad or disposable. Like you say, if Ruin actually reached his end game, he wouldn’t actually be happy.
Perhaps the point of the series will be to unite all of them (although why Odium would be desirable, I don’t know. Perhaps it’s supposed to just represent something more neutral like anger, or perhaps it’s just a statement that we all have evil/darkness/original sin/whatever).
(I also don’t know what that means for the broken/killed shards).
@49 Lisamarie
I know we’ve been talking without spoiler tags, but just in case, I’m going to put up a Cosmere wide spoiler notice for this:
[I think you’re exactly right about the point of the series. The Shattering of Adonalsium, and his eventual (?) rebirth have been mentioned as core points of the Cosmere.]
Considering Odium, a WoB has mentioned that Adonalsium could’ve been shattered in other ways, so a combination like 50% Odium 50% Honor called ‘Justice’ or ‘Vengeance’ was technically possible. Whatever we may wish, hatred is a part of the spectrum of human emotions, and it’s just now, when it is, as WoR says ‘separated from the virtues that gave it context’ that it has grown into the shard we know as Odium.
While you have a point about one shard not really being sustainable, they are sustainable enough by themselves, or in pairs to create a civilization that has managed to keep going for a while.