This is a rough one indeed, Chickens. Kaladin chapters that happen in the Sander-lanch do tend to be such, don’t they?
I’m not going to belabor the opening. Let’s just get into it, shall we?
Reminder: We’ll be discussing spoilers for the entirety of the series up until now. If you haven’t read ALL of the published entries of The Stormlight Archive (this includes Edgedancer and Dawnshard as well as the entirety of Rhythm of War), best to wait to join us until you’re done.
Once again, you’re free of wider Cosmere spoilers here.
Heralds:
- 2 x Jezrien (Jezerezeh, Yaezir, Ahu), Herald of Kings. Windrunners (Adhesion, Gravitation). Protecting/Leading. Role: King.
- Talenelat (Talenel, Taln), Herald of War. Stonewards (Cohesion, Tension). Dependable/Resourceful. Role: Soldier.
- Vedeledev (Vedel). Edgedancers (Abrasion, Progression). Loving/Healing. Role: Healer.
Lyn: I’m actually surprised that we don’t have Shalash in here, since she’s the Herald of the Lightweavers. According to Brandon, that’s the order that Tien was on the way to being, so I’m a bit surprised not to see her here. Not at all surprised to see Jezrien represented twice, as this is a solely Kaladin POV chapter. Taln isn’t surprising either, as the soldier—since the flashback we see is of Tien and Kal’s time in Amaram’s army. Vedel makes perfect sense, as Tien’s embodying the roles of loving/healing in this chapter.
Icon: Banner and Spears, for a Kaladin-centric chapter.
Epigraph:
For ones so confused, they are somehow brilliant.
—Musings of El, on the first of the Final Ten Days
P: Why, thank you. *buffs nails*
Chapter Recap
WHO: Kaladin
WHEN: 1175.4.10.4
WHERE: In the sky outside of Urithiru
(Note: For the “when” notations, we are using this wonderful timeline provided by the folks at The 17th Shard.)
RECAP: Still falling, Kaladin wakes up in a tent in Amaram’s old army. He realizes that he’s in the past, seeing Tien being ordered to his death. Tien speaks to him and reminds him of why he needs to keep going… and Kaladin finally sees. He swears his next ideal.
Chapter Chat—Tien
L: There’s a lot that Tien says in this chapter that’s just… heart-achingly beautiful, and we’re going to quote most of it here. Honestly, sometimes we may not have words to say about the specific quotes, but they’re so, so important to read. Perhaps they’ll be the Words you need, just as Kaladin needed them. If not now, then maybe someday.
P: Many of us have needed, or do need, or will need these words, so I’m fully on board with sharing them all! Grab a tissue or three, friends! And be prepared for us to talk about our feels a lot!
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The Lost Metal
Tien came and took Kaladin’s hand, then walked him forward. “It’s all right,” he said. “I know you’re frightened. But here we can stand together, all of us. Three are stronger than one, right?”
“Tien,” Kaladin said. “Why did you do it? You should have stayed safe.”
Tien turned to him, then smiled. “They would have been alone. They needed someone to help them feel brave.”
“They were slaughtered,” Kaladin said. “So were you.”
“So it was good someone was there, to help them not feel so alone as it happened.”
L: I know the (WoB confirmed) theory is that Tien was going to be a Lightweaver, but man… he would have made a superb Windrunner, too. He was such a beautiful person. Both he and Kaladin… imagine what could have been, had he survived? If they’d been able to support one another?
Honestly, I wouldn’t have been surprised to see him as an Edgedancer, either.
P: He was a beautiful person. He was too good for this war, though. Too pure. I think he would have made a great Edgedancer, too. And the healing would have harkened back to his father, the surgeon.
Kaladin fell to his knees. Then Tien, poor little Tien, wrapped his arms around Kaladin and held him. “It’s all right,” he whispered. “I’m here. To help you feel brave.”
L: Oh, storms. My heart.
P: Our Tien had such a good heart. He was always there for his brother and it’s fitting that Dalinar connected him to Kaladin when Kaladin most needed it.
“Why do we fight, Kal? Why do we keep going?”
“I don’t know,” Kaladin whispered. “I’ve forgotten.”
“It’s so we can be with each other.”
“They all die, Tien. Everyone dies.”
“So they do, don’t they?”
“That means it doesn’t matter,” Kaladin said. “None of it matters.”
“See, that’s the wrong way of looking at it.” Tien held him tighter. “Since we all go to the same place in the end, the moments we spent with each other are the only things that do matter. The times we helped each other.”
L: This is… storms. It’s really beautiful. We only have so many moments here, together, in the same place. For Tien, that’s the meaning of life… and I can’t think of a more beautiful way of looking at it.
P: The moments we spend together are so precious. We need to cherish them more than we do, I think. Because you never know when you won’t have the chance for more moments together.
“If you think letting Teft die is a failure—but all the times you supported him are meaningless—then no wonder it always hurts. Instead, if you think of how lucky you both were to be able to help each other when you were together, well, it looks a lot nicer, doesn’t it?”
L: Yes. Yes, it does. Thank you, Tien. I needed to hear that, too.
P: I think we all need to hear that.
“I wasn’t there.”
Tien smiled. “You are here for me, Kal. You’re here for all of us.”
L: Tien’s really speaking for us, the reader, here. For many of us who relate to and understand Kaladin on a deep, emotional level… his very existence is so very validating.
P: It really is. I don’t think I’ve ever related to a character so much as I relate to Kaladin.
“But I want to see his face when he realizes the truth. Don’t you? It’s going to be delightful.”
L: Yes, it’s going to be quite delightful when Moash realizes the truth.
P: At first I thought this meant Odium, but yes… it will be so satisfying when Moash gets to this point. Don’t disappoint me, Brandon.
“If he kills us,” Tien said, “he’s simply dropped us off at a place we were going anyway. We shouldn’t hasten it, and it is sad. But see, he can’t take our moments, our Connection, Kaladin. And those are things that really matter.”
L: Brandon’s so, so good at this. I… I honestly don’t have much I feel I can say. Coming so soon after my friend’s death, this hit way too hard and I’m typing through a lot of tears.
P: *hugs Lyn* Brandon is good at this. His words just reach out and wring the emotions from us.
Bruised and Broken
“I’m not strong enough,” Kaladin whispered.
“You’re strong enough for me.”
“I’m not good enough.”
“You’re good enough for me.”
“I wasn’t there.”
Tien smiled. “You are here for me, Kal. You’re here for all of us.”
“And…” Kaladin said, tears on his cheeks, “if I fail again?”
P: I don’t know about you, Sanderfans, but it’s so hard for me to see Kaladin like this. Because I know how he feels. I’ve been in this place where you feel weak and worthless, where you feel like a failure and a fraud. And passages like this in books like this can have the power to lift you up and brush yourself off and take the next step. Thank you, Brandon, once again, for Kaladin.
Oaths Spoken, Powers Awakened
A pinprick of light, weaving around him. But that wasn’t her.
“SYL!”
Another pinprick. And another.
But those weren’t her.
L: Hello, little windspren! Wouldn’t you like to be armor?
P: Why yes, I believe that they would very much like to be armor!
“Besides,” he whispered, “I know the Words.”
Say them, Tien whispered.
“I have always known these Words.”
Say it, lad! Do it!
“I accept it, Stormfather! I accept that there will be those I cannot protect!”
L: And here we have our next Ideal, the one that we (and likely Kal) knew was coming a mile away. But just knowing what the words are supposed to be wasn’t enough—not for Kal, and not for us. He needed to truly believe them. To feel them. And, finally, Tien helped him to do so.
P: And Teft gave him a boost, as well. That stabbed me right in the heart, to have Teft’s voice here, encouraging Kaladin to speak those words.
Also, this was incredibly satisfying after Kaladin was unable to say the words in Oathbringer while in Shadesmar.
“We couldn’t save Teft, Syl,” Kaladin whispered. “We couldn’t save Tien. But we can save my father.”
L: Oh heck yes. GO KAL!
P: You know, I wasn’t really concerned about whether Lirin would live or die, but I’m glad it works out as it does for Kaladin’s sake. After that chat with Tien, and after losing Teft, losing his father would have been utterly devastating for him.
We’ll be leaving further speculation and discussion to you in the comments, and hope to join you there! Today’s discussion topic—do you agree with Tien? Do you think that the meaning of life lies in the connections we make with one another? If not, then what is it for you? (Really going with the softball questions this week, I know.) Next week, we’ll be back with chapter 109, in which we join Venli, Navani, and Rlain.
Paige resides in New Mexico, of course. She very much misses baseball and is psyched that Spring Training starts next week. Links to her other writing are available in her profile.
Lyndsey is currently traveling in Ireland, and will likely be posting the occasional photo on her Facebook page. If you enjoy queer protagonists, snarky humor, and don’t mind some salty language, check out book 1 of her fantasy series. Follow her on Facebook or TikTok!
*hugs Lyn (and Paige)*
I think you missed an important part of Tien’s comment on the meaning of life. In the quote Connection is capitalized, so he is using the term in the larger Cosmere sense. While those are important on a personal level, I think small c connections are, in some ways, more important. They are what drive people in Urithru to wear the smash glyph. They are why we are here discussing a book, with people we’ve never met, written by someone who would have no idea who we are.
And, once again, there are tears in my eyes. *Sniffles*
Brandon is waaaay too good at it.
FWIW, I do think Tien is right, the Storms bless him. So brave, so kind … I think he nailed it, and I am SO happy Dalinar gave the opportunity for him to make Kal see it as well.
My third time through RoW was listening to the audiobook on runs. When I got to this chapter, I had to just stop where I was on the trail and let it wash over me because the other option was getting blinded by tears and running into a tree. Doesn’t matter how many times I read it or when or where it comes up, I can never not sob my way through it. Just wonderfully done.
I want to know more about how Dalinar can not only speak in ALL CAPS but also accept Oaths. Is this a situational deal or something he can do at will with enough training. And does this mean our twitchy friend Ishar can do the same thing? Khriss’ writing on Hemalurgy suggests that forming false Connections is an incredibly dangerous ability. It’s probably even more dangerous when someone can do it without making the subject hold still for spiking.
Anyway, I need to wash my face and get back to work!
No coffee to cry into this time. I have been waiting for this discussion. Of all the books I have ever read, of all the chapters in any book, this one is my favorite. This chapter had me crying so hard that I frightened my husband (who I have said many times could have been Brandon’s model for Kaladin).
Tien (Brandon) is so right. Our purpose in life is to care for each other, love each other. Every second together is precious. And it isn’t restricted to those we know, but everyone, now and in the future, to take care of our world for others.
I think Kaladin was allowed into a spiritual state (realm) so he could not only have Tien comfort and strengthen him, but be allowed to hear Teft, too. Thank you Dalinar/Stormfather.
It is always nice when I guess something correctly in the Stormlight Archive as my predictions are frequently wrong. Before RoW came out, I predicted that the Windrunners’ 4th Ideal would be “It is ok if I failed to protect somebody as long as I tried my best.” The actual Ideal was he accepts that there will be those Kaladin cannot save. Both Kaladin’s 4th Ideal and my guess require Kaladin to acknowledge it is ok that he cannot save everyone. Further, live stream (12/17/2020), Brandon said the key to the Windrunner 4th Ideal was accepting your fault.
I think that was Teft’s soul (or whatever the is the Cosmere equivalent of a soul) viewing the events in the Physical Realm (Kaladin falling) and giving Kaladin encouragement. I do not think Kaladin was imagining that Teft was talking to him. My guess is that the mechanics of the Spiritual Realm are such that if a tie is strong enough to the Physical Realm (perhaps because of the manner of death and the the recency of such event) then the soul can communicate and/or view events in the Physical Realm. Tien could still take with Kaladin because of the means that Dalinar used to connect Kaladin with Tien in that in-between space.
Do we know why and how Dalinar was able to bring Kaladin and Tien together? Or did Dalinar just put Kaladin in that in-between space and then Kaladin’s psyche was the means to reach out and call for Tien subconsciously? Or maybe once Kaladin was in that in between space, Tien was the one controlling the image? Tien would know what Kaladin needed to see and hear in that moment.
It is too bad that Alice is not a guest commentator for this chapter. The mysteries or unknowns of the mechanics as to who Kaladin and Tien ended up together with that vision are the type of theories that Alice is good at speculating about.
@Zodda, I don’t think any Bondsmith can accept oaths. I think Dalinar Ascended back in Oathbringer. (After all, Rayse says so.) I think he’s all-but-being Honor. As his bond with the Stormfather intensifies, both of them get more powerful (and insightful).
Just reading this short recap has me crying again. Brandon has the touch with this sort of emotional understanding. As others have stated, those of us who have lived with deep depression in a part of our lives have a capital C “Connection” with Kaladin.
Not much I want to say here other than: everything we wanted to say to Kal the entire journey, Tien did say to Kal. One of the most emotionally satisfying passages I have ever read, knowing someone finally got through to him – not just any someone, but the someone who Kal beat himself up over the most of all, telling Kal its alright. Brilliant.
@5 We actually have proof of the Spirtiural Realm working like that because of Secret History Of Mistborn.
In it, our favorite thief mastermind is able to feel out the souls of those around him, and see them briefly. We also know that someone who has Investiure is able to stay in the Spiritrual Realm for a little while before they eventually go off into the Beyond. At least, this is how it works on Scadriel. I think there was a word of Brandon that the Spirtirual Realm on Roshar may be a little bit broken or something is wrong with it. Because another rule was that not even Shards know what is Beyond. That means their power there is limited, so how was Dalinar able to reach out to form the Connection with Tien? There is also the question of Dalinar and Sazeths’ voices of the dead that they hear. Something is screwy with the Spiritural Realm, that is for sure, but the rules for it have been stated, so you are right.
Anyway, I love this chapter. Tien helping Kaladin is so heartbreaking. But my personal favorite is when you can hear Teft’s voice telling him he can do it. I don’t know why , but even in death, Sarge is looking out for his Captain.
@5 Going off how Brandon has explained the similar “I forgive you.” moment in Oathbringer, the mechanics are definitely open to interpretation both within the story and among readers. Dalinar would probably say that he used Connection powered by the storm to allow Kaladin and Tien to reach across the Beyond and truly speak to one another. Jasnah would probably say that Connection is causing the Investiture itself to become sentient as essentially a Cognitive Shadow of Tien. Whether that shadow reflects Tien as he truly was or Kaladin’s or even Dalinar’s conception and understanding of Tien is also an open question.
This is why I love Connection as a concept and Cosmere lore in general.
Also worth mentioning, maybe: the Spiritual Realm allows Connection across time. Dalinar has done other weird stuff with that, like talking to Nohadon (who was probably also a Bondsmith, so maybe Nohadon was reaching forward in time to talk to him?). Tien could be in the Beyond “now” but still talk to Kaladin from back when he was alive, or just barely dead.
@9 – You are confusing the Spiritual Realm with the Cognitive Realm.
Hearing the fourth ideal also shows exactly why he was unable to speak it in Oathbringer. In that book he wanted to speak it so that he could protect and save Adolin and Shallan. It’s difficult to swear that you can’t protect people for the purpose of protecting them.
This is the chapter that made me tear up while reading!
Reading it now is tough…I didn’t get to read it last week, and today I’m a little fragile (I’m a Spartan alumna) and not really able to parse it very much right now.
But in a way this reminds me a lot of a very important moment towards the culmination of Wheel of Time that I really loved (although part of that dilemma and its resolution also had to do with the cyclical nature of time): Each time we live we get to love again.
@Zodda since I’ve always listened to stormlight graphic audio, it’s hard to imagine the audiobook capturing it as well haha, just one guy conversing with himself..but i know how you feel.
The Kal VA has always been perfect (even if the change of direction for RoW was jarring at first) and the music is just so well done for the scene this managed to be as epic as his wok & wor finales easily, not just the emotional resonance and shardplate but the larger implications of this connection with the spiritual realm. Seriously though, get the graphic audio asap if you’ve never experienced it, all the most iconic moments of the series are captured so perfectly, there’s highlights on YouTube. They can be pricy, i just got them all from audiobookbay to listen, then eventually bought them once they were on sale
Even years later this book is still a gift that keeps giving haha, so many damn things to theorize about..i know we got the prologue + kaladin/Szeth chapter for Knights of Wind and truth but i really want more haha