Welcome back to A Read of Ice and Fire! Please join me as I read and react, for the very first time, to George R.R. Martin’s epic fantasy series A Song of Ice and Fire.
Today’s entry is Part 1 of A Dance with Dragons, in which we cover the Prologue and Chapter 1 (“Tyrion”).
Previous entries are located in the Index. The only spoilers in the post itself will be for the actual chapters covered and for the chapters previous to them. As for the comments, please note that the Powers That Be have provided you a lovely spoiler thread here on Tor.com. Any spoileriffic discussion should go there, where I won’t see it. Non-spoiler comments go below, in the comments to the post itself.
And now, the post!
Scheduling note: As always, my timing in starting new segments is terrible, for the dreaded Holidays are upon us, and so things is wonky in Blogland. Ergo, as next Thursday is Thanksgiving for the U.S. of A-ians in the crowd, a portion which includes both me and The Powers That Be at Tor.com, there will be no ROIAF post next week, so that I and TPTB at Tor.com (and alla y’all to whom it applies, of course) may properly get our tryptophan coma and probable alcohol-fueled family snipefest on. The Read will resume December 4, assuming we don’t all die in a Black Friday-related shopping apocalypse.
Because y’all: I’m going to Best Buy. On Black Friday. Pray for me.
And until then, onward!
Prologue
What Happens
In the body of the wolf One Eye, Varamyr Sixskins helps the pack hunt down and eat a group of humans, two men and a woman with a baby. He remembers how his teacher Haggon had told him to eat human flesh was an abomination, though not worse a one than seizing the body of another man, and then remembers eating Haggon’s heart after taking away his “second life,” though he had never eaten human flesh as a man.
He thinks of the wildling army’s retreat in total disarray from the Wall, breaking up into factions or succumbing to hunger and cold as they wandered, and thinks they are all doomed anyway, including the crows at the Wall, for “the enemy was coming.” He remembers all the times he’s “died” while riding the body of a beast, most recently as his eagle, dying in fire, but knows his true death is coming soon. He had been stabbed by a young boy when he’d tried to steal the cloak of the boy’s dead mother. Thistle, the last of his companions, had left days ago to try and find food, but has not returned.
The fire is out in his rude hut, and he struggles outside, calling for Thistle. He mourns that the great and feared Lord Sixskins has been brought so low. After the battle he had lost control of all his animals except the wolves, and finds comfort in the fact that they will probably eat him after he dies. He decides to go to One Eye when he dies; Haggon had warned him that he will eventually lose himself in the wolf. Varamyr regrets that he did not steal the crow turncloak’s wolf when he had the chance. He thinks of how he had done terrible things in his life, the worst to his younger brother Bump. He had been inside the dog that killed Bump, which is why his parents gave him to Haggon.
Thistle returns and tries to get Varamyr up, screaming that “there are hundreds of them,” and he tries to take her body. She screams and fights him off, clawing at her own face and biting out her tongue, and as he dies, he seeks out the wolf One Eye instead, and finds him. He sees the village below where he’d died, and that it is crawling with “blue-eyed shadows.”
The things below moved, but did not live. One by one, they raised their heads toward the three wolves on the hill. The last to look was the thing that had been Thistle. She wore wool and fur and leather, and over that she wore a coat of hoarfrost that crackled when she moved and glistened in the moonlight. Pale pink icicles hung from her fingertips, ten long knives of frozen blood. And in the pits where her eyes had been, a pale blue light was flickering, lending her coarse features an eerie beauty they had never known in life.
She sees me.
Commentary
Yeah, and I kinda hope she kills you, dude. Again.
It’s sort of amazing, this skill Martin has for making you feel sorry for his characters’ misfortunes even as they’re in the midst of reminiscing about all the truly heinous shit they’ve done—or even are doing at that very moment. This is an observation I’ve made before (see Kingslayer, the), but it bears repeating. I mean, Varamyr mentally confesses here to murder, serial rape, terrorism, infanticide/fratricide, cannibalism by proxy (and wow I love that that is an actual term thanks to this series), and I guess what you would have to call both Grand Theft Warg™ and animal cruelty, and yet I still felt kind of bad for him as he was dying of hypothermia. That is something else, man.
Not to mention the whole fucked-upedness of trying to steal Thistle’s body, which is kind of like some surreal mystical concatenation of theft, rape, coercion, and possibly even murder as well. I’m not sure on the last one, since it’s not made clear here whether a warg taking over a human body (or an animal one, for that matter) can actually destroy the consciousness that rightfully belongs there. Haggon’s assertion that a dead warg who enters an animal’s body will eventually fade away suggests not, but who knows.
So yeah, I kind of felt sorry for Varamyr, but at the same time I also feel like it would be pretty apropos if he got torn apart by undead frozen zombies. Which looks pretty likely to be about to happen, so yay? I guess?
Anyway, besides being a morbidly beautiful piece of writing (something else Martin is consistently very good at), this Prologue obviously provided a lot of interesting information about warging and the ethics thereof—if mainly providing it by showing us a character who blatantly ignored all the ethics of warging, which is hilariously typical but also very effective.
If nothing else, it provides some worrisome context for what Bran did when he accidentally (and then later deliberately) warged Hodor. The actual ethical concerns (which are bad enough) of that aside, Haggon’s attitude definitely suggests that the larger warging community (heh) is probably not going to look very favorably on Bran when and if they find out what he’s done, even if he didn’t mean to do it.
Speaking of which:
A great elk trumpeted, unsettling the children clinging to his back.
I can only assume this is a reference to Coldhands and Bran and co., since they are the only ones I remember recently having cause to be traipsing about the northlands on an elk. (Wow, was that review of ASoS useful.) And also interesting, in that Varamyr referred to all of them as “children,” which could be taken to mean the relative youth of Bran and Jojen and Meera, but then would exclude the definitely adult Coldhands, and therefore alternately suggests that “children” in this context doesn’t mean “non-adults” but instead means that he considers all of them “children of the forest.” Which is interesting, if true. Or I’m overthinking it and Coldhands fell off the elk at some point and thus is not there to be observed, but I kind of doubt that’s the case. We’ll see, I hope.
In any case, bye Varamyr! Here’s hoping you are yet another Prologue POV character who doesn’t survive the experience!
Chapter 1: Tyrion
What Happens
Tyrion spends his journey across the Narrow Sea extremely drunk, plagued by memories of Tysha and Shae and his father, and contemplating his father’s last words to him: “wherever whores go,” and vaguely trying to decide where he should go next. Once in port, the captain has Tyrion closed up in an empty wine cask, and transported to the home of an extremely fat man named Illyrio Mopatis, who puts him up in luxurious fashion, though his clothes seem made for a boy rather than a dwarf. He divines that he is in Pentos, which Illyrio confirms before leaving him alone.
Tyrion knows that he should not trust any friend of Varys’, but instead of escaping, he finds the wine cellar and wanders the grounds of Illyrio’s estate, drunkenly confessing his dilemma over whether to go to the Wall or to Dorne and crown his niece Myrcella queen to a washerwoman in the garden, who appears to ignore him. He finds some poisonous mushrooms and gathers them to save for later.
He wakes back in his rooms, attended by a blond girl who makes it clear that she is available for his pleasure, but cannot hide her disgust and then, when he goes out of his way to provoke it, her fear of him. He goes to a sumptuous dinner with Illyrio, who tells him the news that Astapor and Meereen have fallen. Illyrio offers him a dish of mushrooms which Tyrion immediately suspects are poison. Illyrio says that when his guest clearly wishes to end his life, he must oblige him, and death by mushroom is easier than by the sword. Tyrion is frightened to realize he is actually considering it, and says he has no wish to die. Illyrio eats the mushrooms, and says he should show more trust.
Illyrio tells him Cersei has offered a lordship to whoever brings her Tyrion’s head, which does not surprise Tyrion, and that Stannis is at the Wall. He reveals his knowledge of Tyrion’s babbling to the washerwoman about going to Dorne and crowning Myrcella, and points out that queening Myrcella is the same as killing her. Tyrion is impressed at his acumen, but says that futile gestures are all that is left to him. Illyrio tells him that there is another path for Tyrion to Casterly Rock, and that what the people of Westeros are looking for is a savior:
“Not Stannis. Nor Myrcella.” The yellow smile widened. “Another. Stronger than Tommen, gentler than Stannis, with a better claim than the girl Myrcella. A savior come from across the sea to bind up the wounds of bleeding Westeros.”
“Fine words.” Tyrion was unimpressed. “Words are wind. Who is this bloody savior?”
“A dragon.” The cheesemonger saw the look on his face at that, and laughed. “A dragon with three heads.”
Commentary
Ah hah!
Okaaayy, so now I’m remembering vaguely, again, when Arya came across Varys and Illyrio in the catacombs of the castle in King’s Landing waaaay back in the day, and don’t ask me why I’m remembering that when I’ve forgotten so much else, but that scene always stuck with me for some reason. So I’m guessing Varys and Illyrio have been in cahoots to restore the Targaryens, i.e. Dany, to the Iron Throne for approximately forever, and Tyrion’s fall from grace—or whatever—is just the latest new wrinkle they’re incorporating into their plan.
Of course, I think originally the plan was to restore Viserys to the throne, until Viserys proved himself entirely too giant an asshole to live by pissing off a barbarian warlord and getting himself gilded to death (yeek), so if nothing else Varys and Illyrio have proven themselves very good at rolling with the punches. Adaptability, they can has it.
Not least by seeing what an asset Tyrion could be to their plan… provided he manages to pull himself out of the drunken shame spiral of semi-suicidal depression he so eloquently displays in this chapter, of course. Not that I blame him, really; if anyone ever deserved an episode of epic wallowing in self-pity, it’s Tyrion. And man, does he take it.
It’s quite the thing, really. I mean, what do you do with the knowledge that you murdered your own father, paired right along with the knowledge that he totally deserved it?
Well, apparently what you do with that is get really fucking drunk for a while, which… seems about right, to me.
(As a side note, I’m pretty sure that Tyrion is actually wearing Viserys’ old clothes, which is just cranking the irony dial up to eleven. Man.)
He had dreamed enough for one small life. And of such follies: love, justice, friendship, glory. As well dream of being tall.
Ouch. Although, Tyrion, it might be fair to point out that just about nobody seems to get all those things in this world. Certainly nobody with political significance. It’s enough to make you wonder why the hell anyone bothers with wanting power, when it seems to come with such a guarantee that sooner or later it’s going to bite you in the ass. Of course, I’m not sure that’s not true in the real world, too, but still.
All that said, I am perversely still totally excited at the idea of Tyrion teaming up with Dany… which I guess means I am coming around to the idea of Dany being actually successful at conquering Westeros and regaining the Iron Throne? I guess?
I don’t know, it’s sort of like I don’t even care anymore in a political sense. It’s more that if Tyrion and Dany, two of my favorite characters in the entire series, are coming together, then I have to root for their success purely for personal reasons, rather than on considerations of whether restoring the Targaryens to the throne is actually a good idea or not. Which makes me a bad politician, probably, but fortunately I don’t have to give a shit about that if I don’t want to.
Which I don’t. So THERE.
Plus there is the total fascination I have with the idea of Tyrion and Dany meeting, and what they might make of each other. I kind of desperately want to see this happen in this book now, and that it will bear out my hope that Dany will be one of the few people to actually see past Tyrion’s appearance to his worth as a human being.
I also recognize that this hope is totally setting myself up for a potential crushing disappointment, but whatever, I’mma hope for it anyway.
“Is this Dornish wine?” Tyrion asked him once, as he pulled a stopper from a skin. “It reminds me of a certain snake I knew. A droll fellow, till a mountain fell on him.”
LOL.
“You Westerosi are all the same . You sew some beast upon a scrap of silk, and suddenly you are all lions or dragons or eagles.”
Hahahaha. That is some self-reflexive shit right there, Mr. Martin. Why, yes, that is exactly what you do, isn’t it. And we all kind of love it when you do. Gives it all that certain je ne sais quoi, don’t it.
And that’s what I got for this one, folks! Have a de-gorgeous Thanksgiving week if that is your wont, and a de-groovy random November week if it ain’t your wont, and I’ll see you in two weeks!
I think Best Buy has the best system out of all the stores.
I couldn’t go last year until 7 am because I was waiting on my direct deposit to show up, and when I got there, things were calm, and every hour they had restocked the floor, so the people who couldn’t get there for the mad scrum could still get stuff(I got the 250 GB Xbox with four free games for $150)
In addition, I don’t think the clothes are Viserys’ because they didn’t come to Illyrio as children, they’d only been there a short time when we meet Dany there.
Also there is a new spoiler thread, if anyone wants to update the link in the article, but the link in the new thread leads right back to the old one!
Yeahh, Tyrion is back!
I felt a little guilty laughing out loud as a drunken Tyrion was stuffed into a barrel.
Actually the spoiler thread linked is to an even older one, not the recent one.
But maybe we should get a new one for ADWD? Or is it that we’ll be talking spoilers less so close to the end?
Well Varamyr kinda shoots down my theory that Ned warged into Ser Pounce and will take out Feline Revenge on the Lion clan.
Maybe Coldhands just wasn’t unsettled.
You’ve now read all of the existing Prologues, and yeah, none of the POV characters (all one-offs) survive the experience (in their own body; Varamyr is admittedly kind of an edge case, continuing on in the wolf, for awhile at least).
Also, good connection between the ethics of warging and what Bran is up to with Hodor. He’s wandering around, a young pre-teen with no direction or guidance as he stumbles into gray (and potentially really dark gray) areas. Much like his sister Arya, in very different ways.
I’m glad you remember the Illyrio-Varys confab from way back when! Remember too that it was Illyrio that gave Dany her dragon eggs and hosted the Dothraki wedding…. I’m pleased to find you understanding of Tyrion’s head-space at the moment. Hold onto that empathy as we proceed forward!
Personally Leigh, if Target workers are working on Thanksgiving, so can you!
(Just kidding! I am very much against Thanksgiving shopping!)
I don’t know what to say to this thread because it’s hard for me to comment without going into spoiler territory. But very excited to see what you make of this one!
“Because y’all: I’m going to Best Buy. On Black Friday. Pray for me”
Today, Leigh, my respect for your bravery rose to infinity. My respect for your good sense dropped to negative infinity.
I am so, so, so, so, so, SO SO SO SO excited we’ve reached ADWD!!!!!!!!! Whoo!!!!
Prologue- Varamyr Sixskins sucks, and deseves his death more than the previous prologue characters (maybe even more than Chett, who sucked). I’m always happy to get more background info on warging, and that little society of wargers seems like quite an exclusive club that Bran needs an introduction to, though I doubt the 3-eyed Crow hangs out in the same circles. Also, I’m pretty sure that Bran et al. are nowhere near Varamyr (other than also being somewhere North of the Wall), and the Elk with children on its back was in fact an elk with wilding children on its back fleeing after the battle. There was nothing to do with Children of the Forest or Coldhands in this chapter, at least not that I perceived.
Chapter 1: Woo-hoo! My favorite character returns! And he’s constantly drunk and depressed, even moreso than in previous books. And now we can add suicidal, or at least suicidal ideation (a more appropriate medical term, yet still a very worrying one). Though Illyrio’s serving the mushrooms at the dinner table was quite a good LOL moment, and helps illiustrate just how similar he is to Varys, who we know is somehow allied with him but don’t know how. That serving mushrooms with dinner was exactly like Varys’ warnings to Tyrion when Tyrion was acting as Kings Hand, demonstrating Illyrio’s knowledge of everything Tyrion attempts.
Thanks, Leigh, and Happy Turkey (and Football!!!) Day! Good luck surviving Black Friday (you poor, poor, woman)!
Did Leigh’s post make anybody else think of South Park’s GOT/Black Friday episode? I can’t remember – is it safe for Leigh to watch?
“You can’t die! Everybody really liked you!”
Prologue –This gives us a repellent yet interesting view of Warging. Varamyr is a pretty nasty piece of work but obviously talented.
The children clinging to the great elk are probably Bran & co. since GRRM seems to like doing that sort of thing.
…I’m going to Best Buy. On Black Friday. Pray for me.
“Those are brave shoppers knocking at the door. Let’s kill them, and take their stuff.”
Well, we have a depressed and suicidal Tyrion. Dwarf Fortress, anyone?
@15 – Ha! I refuse to play because I know what it will do to me, but I know all about Dwarf Fortress. Now I’m imagining Tyrion pining for his lost Ser Pounce.
Tyrion’s behavior towards the girl sent to his room strikes me as pretty awful, though within the bounds of Planetos mores.
Lots of stuff going on in these 2 chapters, Leigh. Make a point of remembering them.
Where do whores go?
What happened to my post? It wasn’t a spoiler as far as I know, just speculation.
If it was a spoiler, at least have the decency to say so when you delete it.
@19 – After several people flagged and/or questioned your post because they were uncomfortable with your reasoning as to why the character in question is overweight, the moderator team decided to delete the comment. Please feel free to rephrase it, and for future reference, please take a look at Tor.com’s moderation policy. Thanks!
It was the fat shaming Ragnarredbeard
Had a nice restful time in Dunk’s mind? Good. Welcome back to Amorality World, aka the rest of Planetos!
Of the many ADWD reaction videos on YouTube, my favorites are by Podcast of Ice and Fire host Kyle Maddock. He wrote a response (usually a few sentences or less) to every chapter after reading that chapter for the first time and, after finishing the book, read them all aloud on three videos starting at about 2:19 here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXYAxL-J944. I’ll probably quote some of them as we go. (Kyle also narrated hilarious Game of Thrones episode recap videos for seasons 3 and 4).
For example:
Prologue: “Am I the only one who can’t help but think of Faramir every time I see Varamyr’s name? Oh — also, can you warg into an Other, or a wight? Do we know this?” (No comment)
Chapter 1: “What a drunken douche. And remind me never to read a chapter that has Illyrio Mopatis in it on an empty stomach.”
The Tyrion chapter is controversial indeed. Some readers strongly sympathize with his despair and anger after what he’s been through. Others are disgusted by his behavior, especially threatening the bedslave to get a slight power-trip. Me, I hated that bit and generally dislike scenes involving vomit, but the new setting and renewed snarking caught my interest.
*whale-and-trident stamp* Lady Wednesday approves of Chapter 1, anyway. Raise your fork to the glutton queen on Thanksgiving, and don’t subsequently get yourself killed by the mobs of
Grim TuesdayBlack Friday! Your commentary is irreplaceable!Chapter 1 – Tyrion: Tyrion drinks his way across the narrow sea. That seems about right after killing his father and fleeing his homeland. For the rest of the chapter, Tyrion feels sorry for himself (that being one of his major skills) and mopes about for the day, making himself busy insulting cooks, washer women and the courtesan (being somewhat obnoxious is also a skill he has).
Illyrio plays the very interesting card of a dragon with three heads at the end of the chapter and so he intends to have Tyrion meet up with Dany. That seems like a useful direction.
“Concatenation” Man, your vocabulary is so much better than mine.
Not to mention the whole fucked-upedness of trying to steal Thistle’s body, which is kind of like some surreal mystical concatenation of theft, rape, coercion, and possibly even murder as well.
You might have some type of imprisonment as well, something of an “And I Must Scream” (don’t click that) situation.
Is the most recent spoiler thread still Part 6? That’s the last one I’m seeing.
Yes, it is. Bit of confuzzlement earlier, as the link on this page was supposedly to a previous one but appears to have been fixed now (?)
Sooner or later a dwarf is always smuggled somewhere in a barrel.
It is nice for Jon that Stannis saved the Night’s Watch, but that meant he sent the Wildling’s back to be White Walker fodder, which just strengthens the actual enemy. Seemslike a Pyrrhic victory.
Yeah, I bet it’ll be great when Dany meets Tyrion. Just like that great scene where Sam met Arya, right? Or Jon and Bran at Queenscrown? Yeah, good times.
Why no ludicrously obese women in Westeros/Essos in positions of power? Actually they don’t really exist at all–I don’t think Lollys and Fat Walda together could teeter-totter with Illyrio or Manderly.
Some glass ceilings just aren’t going to break :)
For funsies, assuming I remember to do this throughout the reread, I’ll be looking at where these chapters fall in the Boiled Leather combined reading order.
Prologue: Intriguingly, ADWD’s prologue is meant to be read before AFFC’s. This is probably a thematic decision; beginning with the threat of the Others (presumably the overall antagonists of the series) as a reminder of what horrible things we’ll be subjected to in the North for the rest of the series (okay that’s speculation because maybe TWOW is going to be about Willas Tyrell holding a handicapable birthday party), whereas AFFC’s prologue is an introduction to Oldtown drama (which wasn’t even relevant until the last chapter of AFFC).
Chapter I: After the two prologues, one is supposed to read Prophet (Aeron Greyjoy), Captain of the Guards (Areo Hotah), and Cersei I, all AFFC. The first two serve as a way of introducing the reader to the other new intrigues: the Iron Islands (please rise harder and stronger somewhere else) and Dorne (too hot for me, but much more palatable). Cersei proceeds to find out about the murder of Tywin, and begins her descent into madness. Amusingly, that chapter ends with her envisioning Tyrion strangling her, whereas this first chapter shows that he’s getting further away from her by the second.
Tyrion spends his journey across the Narrow Sea extremely drunk, plagued by memories of Tysha and Shae and his father, and contemplating his father’s last words to him: “wherever whores go,”
I don’t think it’s a spoiler to note that Leigh is going to get really, really sick of those words over the next few months.
@29
What about Genna Lannister? More power behind the throne of Riverrun, but still. Cersei was on the way of becoming as fat as Genna, but then Spanish Inquisition happened. Who would have expected it?
Sorry I missed kick off Thursday. On the road all day but rest assured I did look in from afar.
Re the Prologue – Ugh! Hard to find a more loathesome individual in all of ASOIF and that is saying something. Query whether he was a total awful person who happened to have skinchanging powers or whether the skinchanging powers (and associated ability to control animals and humans) led him to become said awful person. If the latter, Bran and the other Stark kids better watch out. They need to remember that with great power comes great responsibility and all that.
I think about this chapter the way I thought about a textbook in my Contract law class in law school. The majority of cases included in the text book had a questionable result that gave the professor plenty of opportunities to enhance critical reasoning skills on the part of the students and not assume that all judges reached the correct analytical results. But all of the cases included very clear and accurate statements of the contract law principles that were later misapplied. Same here. Varamyr is scum but I’d be looking carefully for all of the “rules” of skin changing laid out with some clarity in the text. Should be useful going forward. *Bran – stop warging Hodor this instant!*
Very nice pick up on Coldhands’ Elk. *thinks* I don’t believe I ever saw that reference to the Bran kids before in reading this chapter. Very nice pick up. By the way, in my head I assume CH is leading the elk, so all we see on the back are the kids.
Oh Tyrion, my Tyrion. Time to hit bottom under all of the cr*p piled on top of him. Let’s hope he pulls himself into some semblance of shape before long. He’s still funny (as Leigh’s pulled out quote indicates) but dark Tyrion is not a nice person.
Leigh – great memory on the Illyrio – Varys connection. As I recall, you picked up one side of the two guys talking in AGOT easily and really struggled re the other. At some point, all of the blatant hinting in the comments finally sank in and you got it. So you actually might be ticked off at commenters for excessive spoiling on this point but it did sink in with the benefit of a clear memory. Yay (I guess).
Love Leigh’s pull quote about “He had dreamed enough for one small life. And of such follies: love, justice, friendship, glory. As well dream of being tall.” I’m calling it that Tyrion will achieve “love, justice, friendship and glory” by the end of the series because that is the dramatic irony way that GRRM rolls – assuming that Tyrion survives to the end, of course. (Hint – he’s going to end up in a mutually fulfilling marriage with Sansa. Don’t tell anyone). EDIT – and assuming that Sansa survives to the end, of course….
In the meantime, anyone interested in “shipping” Tyrion and Dany? Danyrion anyone?
@34 RobM²
re: shipping
Tyrany – no, wait….
Rand – well played, sir!
Hasn’t Arya warged into Nymeira in dreams, and eaten the flesh of people?
You know where I’m going shopping thursday and friday? Amazon. From the comfort of my father’s home. While my wife gets up at 3 am.
Oh, I’m also going to a music store to try out a new keyboard, but that’s by appointment. No crazy lines.
@34:
Hint: that ain’t happening except in some people’s fanfiction. Hint is provided amply in the actual text of the series; it’s so strong it can barely be even called a hint, more like “something that can’t be more obvious if it tried”.
However, they may end up with a mutually satisfying annulment. Providing Tyrion survives to the end, of course.
@37: No, Arya has never warged Nymeria. She has had wolf dreams, including at least one in which Nymeria fed, but that isn’t the same thing.
Ditto 39.
@@@@@#22:
It is impossible to feel both? I am disgusted by Tyrion’s behavior and some of what is going on in his head, but at the same time I feel deeply sorry for him, knowing how he got to this point. It’s sad that he has sunk so low and given up on believing in the good in himself, and really starting to think of himself and act as the monster many people always thought he was.
I don’t feel sorry for Varamyr at all, on the other hand. The only time when I did feel a little bit sorry for him was when he was a little boy called Lump and felt like his father was killing him for what he did to his brother, and tried to cry out “no, father!” even though the father was really killing the dog, and when his parents realized what happened, of course they could not kill their dangerous brotherkiller son since he was still their son and a child, but tried to do the best and send him to the skinchanger mentor in hope he would be able to teach him ethics and reign him in (well, that didn’t turn out as planned). But even then, I’m far more sorry for the poor dog, who has his body used to murder a boy he probably liked, and then got killed for Varamyr’s crime, before the parents realized that the dog was not really responsible.
Varamyr is one of the worst human beings in the series, but I love this prologue, it’s my favorite prologue in the series. There is so much great and interesting information on skinchanging; and there is something weirdly fascinating about being in the head of such an evil person. GRRM does that really well, it was also interesting being in heads of other awful people like Chett, Cersei in AFFC or Theon n ACOK, but unlike all those, who keep justifying themselves, Varamyr is unapologetically evil – he knows that he’s breaking all the rules for his power trip, and does not need to justify himself to himself, he simply does not care.
From what we know of warging, from being in Summer’s/Bran’s heads and Ghost’s/Jon’s, it’s obvious that on retains consciousness, even while being overtaken by a skinchanger. The two consciosnesses even seem to merge up to a point. Bran was warned that he may lose himself in Summer, but that was because he was very young and inexperienced, and very unsatisfied with his life as a crippled boy as well. Skinchanging into human beings is particularly difficult, though Hodor was easier probably because his mind and will is less strong than that of most humans. But I assume that a powerful and experienced skinchanger like Varamyr Sixskins can overtake and control almost any non-skinchanger human being, once he is “inside” their skin. It’s easy to see why Thistle preferred to claw her eyes out (ugh), die and become a wight – being possessed by someone like Varamyr for the rest of your life, not being able to stop him from doing who knows what awful things in your body (and you know he would continue doing all sorts of horrible things, murder and rape and so on) while being conscious of it all the time and feeling it all, including his own impulses and enjoyment of the things he does, must be the worst thing that could happen to anyone. In a way it’s like a wight being controlled by an Other, but much worse, because wights are presumably not conscious and don’t feel or think anything.
@20 and 21
Oh, “fat shaming”. Yes, no one in the history of time has ever compensated for personal tragedy with excessive behaviors like overeating, drinking, etc. Apparently, real psychological problems are “shaming” now.
Yes, acting derogatory to people who have psychological problems IS shaming, and so is acting like you must know that people who are overweight HAVE psychological problems.
Being fat is NOT a problem to be “corrected”.
@40:
She dreamed she pulled her mother’s body out of the river as Nymeria. Which Nymeria did. So…
@44, I’m pretty sure her wolf dreams have involved her hunting people in her pack.
@42, I am one of the people who protested your comment (it looks like my comment was also deleted), although I didn’t flag it, and basically my point was that while certainly some people do get fat based on various choices made regarding food or unhealthy choices made about food (sometimes driven by emotions – I’ve certainly been in that position myself), there are many people who are fat becaue they have physiological or hormonal issues that influence how their bodies process calories. Not to mention some people just have different body types but are still medically healthy. But at any rate, they are otherwise emotionally stable individuals – so assuming that fat must also mean something is going on psychologically (or that a fat person must be lazy, weak, sloppy, depressed, etc) is really offensive. I’m certainly not saying that people who are depressed or having issues coping with something are bad people…just that you can’t identifiy them on looks alone.
I think the distinction here between wolf dreams and warging is that Arya is just a passenger, while Varamyr was the driver.
Question: have we had any mention of any other wargs sharing dreams with their animals in this way?
@@@@@ 47 a1ay
Robb Stark in ASOS does, at one point, get very angry when stating that he’s a man, not a wolf. Since we don’t get inside Robb’s head we can’t be sure, but I think it’s likely Robb has had his share of wolf-dreams, like Arya has. And he kind of freaked out about this, but still kept his shit together. I’ll try to see in which chapter his happens actually, but it’s obviously in a Catelyn one.
Wouldn’t this be a sort of proto-warging? Doing it unconsciously?
Jon Show seeing the wilding army in ACOK – seems to be riding along with Ghost. Could be proto-warging, which would be better than Frodo-warging.
I guess what I’m saying is I’m not seeing an actual difference between the two, other than a semantical one.
@27:The dissolution of the Wildling’s from a somewhat cohesive force into White Walker fodder is of concern to me and does seem to be a piece of what GRRM is showing in the Prologue.
As I see it, warging involves actual control over the animal. Wolf dreams may put the dreamer in the mind of the wolf, but there’s no control. It’s just experiencing what the wolf (freely) chooses to do. @47 puts it nicely.
Bran has also experienced wolf dreams, and it seems likely that Rickon has too.
I’m just not sure that the differences matter as far as how this affects the person’s psyche. If eating human flesh is prohibited because it somehow affects the human’s brain… that should be the same whether they are an active participant or just a passenger.
I’m trying to infer that this might be a reason why Arya has taken such a dark turn. And then I have to wonder about Bran… but more on that later.
If eating human flesh is prohibited because it somehow affects the human’s brain… that should be the same whether they are an active participant or just a passenger.
Not if the effect is physical rather than psychological. But even if it’s psychological, it probably depends on the individual. We don’t usually blame ourselves for what happens in our dreams, so I can see how Arya’s dreams wouldn’t affect her (real life has impacted her far more).
@39
I don’t think it’s a spoiler to note that Leigh is going to get really, really sick of those words over the next few months.
ehh…words are wind. :)
@42: It is impossible to feel both? I am disgusted by Tyrion’s behavior and some of what is going on in his head, but at the same time I feel deeply sorry for him, knowing how he got to this point. It’s sad that he has sunk so low and given up on believing in the good in himself, and really starting to think of himself and act as the monster many people always thought he was.
This!
This.
I like how GRRM manages this. Because really, if you try to see it from the outside, what a huge mess it is, I don’t think we have any stellar candidates, i.e., typical fantasy hero types, because, duh, it’s GRRM.
Dany right now is really only fighting for it because “blood right”. And she wants to free all the slaves, how adorable. But she accomplishes this by fraud, tricking and murdering all the masters. Which yes, frees the people from slavery but only frees them to be poor and homeless, living in sacked cities waiting for the next bad guy with ambition to rule them. Dany’s naivete on this front is why I don’t think she’d be a great ruler, at least not yet. Admittedly she seems to be realizing this with her whole “stay in Meereen to rule” but of course now we get to see how that plays out.
There is of course the other matter of her dragons… I guess it could be thought akin to a government having nukes, but generally the gov’t doesn’t threaten to use those nukes on its own people, which is what the Targs of old did. The Targs were the epitome of Might Equals Right rulers, and Dany doesn’t really seem to be deviating from that.
Tyrion might have once made a decent ruler from his days as Hand, but now?
Robb really wasn’t much better, again only fighting for vengeance, not out of any sense of justice. Thought the argument could be made that splitting the kingdom up into smaller bits could make sense (as he only wanted to be King in the North).
Stannis? I don’t think he’d make a good king either, as much as Davos says so. Sure, he’d be just–to the point of having absolutely no grey area. Basically No Tolerance policy for all of Westeros.
Should I even talk about Jon? I don’t think he’s much in the running (at least, yet?), but he might make an okay leader? He’s a little too much like Ned for my tastes, but he does at least seem to be learning how diffucult leading can be.
Sansa–well she’s a wild card at this point. She was too idealistic before, but now she’s actually kind of in the running, what with being married to Tyrion (on paper only, but still a possible heir to Casterly Rock), and now under LF tuteledge. This last bit being why I think she has the best chance at success of any of them. But will she still be a nice enough person after it all?
And the Ironborn–wow do I even need to list why this is terrible?
Bleh, so, our list of candidates isn’t exactly spectacular. So yes please enjoy rooting for your favorites. I think we can all agree that as long as the Ironborn don’t win, Westeros might make it out alive. Assuming the Others don’t freeze the whole world while all these guys are bickering.
#58: Sansa is not an heir to Casterly Rock in any shape or form, and could never be. If she were to have a child with Tyrion, that child would be the heir to Casterly Rock – and even that would not be the case now with Tyrion presumably being stripped of all inheritance by the crown as a convicted murderer, kinslayer and kingslayer.
Sansa is, however, the heir to Winterfell, as far as most of Westeros knows (since her two little brothers are believed to be dead), which is why everyone has been trying to marry her, and exactly why Tywin had her marry Tyrion. It’s also worth noting that she is potentially an heir to Riverrun – if poor Edmure dies without a child (and again, as long as people think that Bran and Rickon are dead), and Harrenhal, since Catelyn’s mother was Minisa Whent, and the rest of the Whent family has died off. Or, she would have a claim on Harrenhal, after (Bran and Rickon and) Edmure, under a regime that does not recognize Joffrey and Tommen as rightful kings, and would therefore also not recognize the legitimacy of the crown taking Harrenhal from Shella Whent and giving it to Petyr Baelish.
I’m sure said Petyr Baelish is very well aware of all this.
It’s definitely possible — nay, probable — to feel both sympathy and repulsion over Tyrion’s current state. But many readers come down more strongly on one side of the spectrum, e.g. Leigh’s “If anyone ever deserved an episode of epic wallowing in self-pity, it’s Tyrion” and a certain other reader’s “Did not want to be inside this truly vile and disgusting person’s head.” I’m approximately in the middle.
Hi Leigh, I’ve been reading ASOIAF for the first time over the past year or so and have found your chapter blogs entertaining and insightful. I recently started ADWD and look forward to reading your blogs as I go. Keep up the great work!
Yay. Finally able to take the black! I’ve caught up with the read and now have to live thru the weekly wait for Leigh’s next post! Can’t wait to hear her insight (and those of the rest of you erudite posters) on adwd.
You’re all welcome!
Last week I predicted that we wouldn’t get aDwD until after Thanksgiving, so she posted it before Thanksgiving just to spite me, little knowing that that was my fiendishly subtle plan from the beginning! muahahahahaha!
So I hate this book. I find it poorly written, plotted, characterised and ultimately just a gigantic waste of time and money. I am however in the minority, although I’m curious if you’ll come to see some of my complaints in time.
@64. I like ADWD quite a bit, but I’ll be interested in your critiques as we move forward.
I always assumed Tywin meant “wherever whores go when they die”. I
can’t imagine a careful and ruthless man like him choosing to keep
Tyrion’s lawful wife alive to disrupt his dynastic plans.
Actually Varamyr never killed his father – he’s innocent of that particular thing.
To the moderators: The posts for A Dance with Dragons aren’t showing on the Read of Ice and Fire index. Would it be possible to get them re-linked? Thanks!