Welcome to the Malazan Reread of the Fallen! Every post will start off with a summary of events, followed by reaction and commentary by your hosts Bill and Amanda (with Amanda, new to the series, going first), and finally comments from Tor.com readers. In this article, we’ll cover part two of chapter twenty-three of The Crippled God.
A fair warning before we get started: We’ll be discussing both novel and whole-series themes, narrative arcs that run across the entire series, and foreshadowing.
Note: The summary of events will be free of major spoilers and we’re going to try keeping the reader comments the same. A spoiler thread has been set up for outright Malazan spoiler discussion.
CHAPTER SUMMARY
SCENE ONE
Brys horse unexpectedly takes him atop the bank looking down on the Perish. He wheels it away toward where his Letherii soldiers are engaging the enemy. He wonders why his people follow him, why he “presumes to lead.” He heads into battle.
SCENE TWO
High Cutter Syndecan of the Perish looks down at Krughava’s body, thinking she had indeed been a hero. As the eldest, they all look to him what to do, and he tells them they must fight to cleanse themselves of the murder they have witnessed, been part of. He does not yet know whom to fight, though, and so he tells them they need sign, just as Brys shows up atop his rearing horse.
SCENE THREE
Abrastal orders Spax to hold the Gilk back even though her soldiers are getting chewed up by artillery. They see the massed perish come pouring out and set themselves to prepare for attack. Abrastal meets Syndecan on the field and he tells her Krughava and Tanakalian are dead and he is placing the Perish under the command of her and Brys. He warns her the Pure with them was wounded by Setoc, but when he awakens they’ll be in trouble as they are no longer linked with the wolf gods. She asks them to place themselves in the way of the Kolansii army that will soon head to reinforce the Spire as soon the FA realize this is but a decoy. She adds she’ll send along the Barghast and Teblor later if possible. She sends the Perish off and heads back. She sends the Saphii spear-soldiers toward the Kolansii.
SCENE FOUR
The Saphii attack the Kolansii trenches.
SCENE FIVE
Brother Diligence recovers and is contacted by Sister Reverence, who tells him that his battle is a decoy and the Spire is being attacked by K’Chain Che’Malle and T’lan Imass. He orders a bare-bones defense to hold this spot and the rest of the army to reinforce the Spire. He’s told the Perish have betrayed them, but he brushed the news aside, saying he’ll use Akhrast Korvalain against them. He sees two K’Chain Che’Malle and heads toward them to deal with the commander. On his way, he kills a bunch of Letherii squad mages.
SCENE SIX
Brys’ horse is killed underneath him. He is attacked by Brother Diligence using the Voice, but Brys calls forth the names of the gods sweeping into the Diligence’s warren. It is killing both Diligence and Brys. Brys speaks the last name—that of the Forkrul god, which overwhelms Diligence and almost takes Brys with it, until a pair of hands grab him from behind.
SCENE SEVEN
Faint watches as Aranict, whose hands have plunged into a watery cloud smelling of the sea, is slowly pulled forward. This after having watched as Brys’ armor and clothes dissolved to reveal a body covered in tattoos and runes, which flew off into Diligence. Faint realizes that Aranict is holding onto Brys and tries to help but is flung back. She calls to Precious, who tells her Aranict is gone too far; it’s a miracle she’s even still alive. Faint bleeds herself and calls to Mael to take her offering, then reaches for Aranict and holds her.
SCENE EIGHT
Precious asks Amby Bole to save Faint “for my love.” He tells her he doesn’t want her, so she promises to hunt him down and follow him his whole life—that the only place to escape is in the cloud. He goes in.
SCENE NINE
Faint hears Sweetest tell her “some laws even an Elder God cannot easily defy. But he’s trying.” Amby grabs her and pulls her out.
SCENE TEN
Amby pulls the whole line up out of the cloud, which then bursts. Precious heals Faint’s cuts.
SCENE ELEVEN
Grub’s Ve’Gath kills Brother Diligence, who stands still overwhelmed and insensate. Seeing there is nobody there to command, and how the soldiers all look to him, he orders a withdrawal. Looking at the bodies, he thinks back to Coltaine: “the bloody road where I was born, where I came alive. I remember that world. I remember no other. All of the brave soldiers, I am yours. I was always yours.”
SCENE TWELVE
Abrastal orders Spac to take the Gilk and Teblor after the Perish while she holds the Kolansii as long as possible. He tells her she sends them to their deaths and she agrees. Before leaving, he informs her he’s impregnated her daughter. A messenger arrives from Brys to let her know he is on his way with two-thirds of his forces.
SCENE THIRTEEN
Brys watches Grub take things “well in hand” and orders that he be considered Brys’ second in command. He puts Grub in control of the relief force while Brys stays with the defense force.
SCENE FOURTEEN
Faint tells Precious the Kolansii will attack, and Precious tells her it’s the mixed-bloods making the Kolansii fight, using the FA warren. Faint tells Brys.
SCENE FIFTEEN
Syndecan sets the Perish up to defend passage.
SCENE SIXTEEN
High Watered Festian leads the Kolansi toward the Perish, planning to crush them via superior numbers.
SCENE SEVENTEEN
Gillimada, leader of the Teblor, acts like a Teblor. Spax acts like an old warrior.
SCENE EIGHTEEN
The Kolansii attack.
SCENE NINETEEN
The Teblor and Gilk join the battle, as Spax thinks they have failed; they can’t hold the Kolnasii back. He sees huge chunks of the Kolanssi simply ignoring the battle and heading toward the Spire.
SCENE TWENTY
In Darujihistan, Karsa stands before a temple ready to complete his vow. He thinks how so many people walk in chains, enslaved to “a host of cruel ideas… a deceitful argument… where one wins and the other always loses… [but] not everyone suffered the same emasculation, and this was where all the lies finally gathered. The hungriest maws… hid in… the fountained gardens of the rich.” He thinks how the Crippled God and “flung weapons in his path… whispered all manner of enticements,” and how he, Karsa, now finally understands him: “He cannot know compassion, from whom compassion has been taken. He cannot know love, with love denied him. But he will know pain, when pain is all that is given him.” Munug interrupts Karsa’s thoughts to tell him it is time, and to ask if Karsa will “kill it all [civilization]” When Karsa says yes, if he an, Munug warns him, “It will simply grow up again, like a weed from the ashes.” Karsa gathers the dying Munug in his arms, refusing to let him die alone, uncared for:
I stepped over corpses on the way here. People no one cared about, dying alone. In my barbaric village, this would never happen, but here in this city, this civilized jewel, it happens all the time… This night… I am a village. And you are here, in my arms. You will not die uncared for… In my village, no one is a stranger. And this is what civilization has turned its back on. One day, Munug, I will make a world of villages… And slavery will be dead, and there shall be no chains—tell your god. Tonight, I am his knight.”
Munug replies, “He knows” then dies.
Amanda’s Reaction
I really love this view of Syndecan as a veteran of many campaigns in which he fought against death as a healer, and now considered himself a failure since Krughava hadn’t made it through. Also, it somehow gives a quiet view of those battles that take place whenever soldiers go to war, those personal battles to try and keep everyone from dying.
I feel sorry for the Perish really. It can’t be easy serving the Wolves, and I think this plaintive cry sums up their entire difficulty: “But who is the damned enemy!”
I really can’t understand the strength and belief necessary in a commander who has to watch her soldiers being scythed down, but won’t yet deploy further forces because they are required elsewhere. I know for sure that I could never be a high ranking soldier, with all of that pressure to make the right decision and the knowledge that every decision is going to bring death of some sort.
I feel such relief that the Grey Helms are planning to fight under Abrastal and Brys, and I particularly like this exchange:
“Syndecan, you’ll need to work hard at inspiring this lot—they’re broken.”
“Yes, Highness, we are. But on this day, I believe that this is no weakness.”
They are fighting for the freedom of a broken god, so it seems very fitting.
It is tiresome that Brother Diligence, on rising from being cast down by a stronger enemy than he imagined, is immediately thinking that he shall easily put the Letherii on their knees. Does he never learn anything?
What a stunning scene as Brys feeds the names of those forgotten gods back to Diligence as they war against each other. I love the idea that this Forkrul Assail—someone who deems justice to be more important than anything—is being involved in the justice of these gods having their names revealed and spoken aloud once more. And the delight that the last name is that of the forgotten and discarded Forkrul Assail god (who must be pretty pissed at his followers)—well, it is just delicious.
And I love, love, love the whole sequence where Aranict, Brys and Faint are saved by an idiot from Blackdog Swamp. Amby Bole is something else—all that insane power housed in the body of someone that most everyone would disregard. I adore the fact that Faint was determined to save Brys and Aranict, so that their love could go on (man, it’s all gone a bit Titanic with that sentence). Just hope that Brys comes back okay.
Bless Grub, and nice to see him step into his true role as a leader of soldiers. It does feel that, despite all his other power, this is where he is destined to go.
Spax is Spax right to the end here, telling Abrastal that he’s knocked up her daughter. And it’s then brilliant to see him struggling to battle with the pain of middle age. That is so realistic.
And then, after all the success and heroics we’ve seen already, and our expectation that the Teblor would be able to combine with the Perish and throw back the enemy, we see Spax barely engaging before realising that all his people would die and that now the K’Chain Che’Malle will have to be the ones to try and hold back the Kolansii. This is incredibly sobering and brings you back to earth with a bump.
What a wonderful moment as Karsa scoops up Munug and tells him he will not die alone. That is special, especially when considering the character who is performing this act of compassion.
Bill’s Reaction
I really like the contrast we get in these scenes with regard to the soldiers/leaders of the two opposing sides. On the one hand, we have the Forkrul Assail who use their sorcery/Voice (hmm, propaganda?) to create unwilling soldiers, and who could care less about what happens to those soldiers as it relates to the success or failure of the FA cause. And on the other hand, you have Brys here agonizing over the willingness of his soldiers to fight (despite the fact that “they know—my title means nothing.” And over his willingness to “presume to lead.”
As a quick toss-away line, I like the sly foreshadow here as well of the “Shake yourself awake, Brys. The time has come to find us a name.” Which he does of course, a whole sea-full of them.
I like how, speaking of “thinking” soldiers, we see Syndecan not simply idolize the fallen Krughava, but instead recognize her “powerful flaw”—that pride that was “ever her enemy”—and then see how she, rather than being “perfect,” overcame the real-life flaw that had so threatened to dominate her. And this—not victory in battle—was her true heroism.
And here as well, we have the reference to soldiers who will not “follow blindly” (but a guy on a horse—now that’s something to get behind… ) One wonders where Syndecan was going to take the whole “look for a sign” speech if Brys hadn’t shown up like that.
A little ironic, that image Abrastal has of “sinking her teeth in to the throat of the Grey Helms”, with the Grey Helms being the “wolves” and all.
Note we have Abrastal taking personal note of her soldier messenger:
“tits barely budding and you’re in the middle of a damned war. And I can’t even remember your name. But should we both survived this, I’m sending you to learn embroidery, and a year or two of flirting…”
Again, a leader who cares, who feels guilt over leadership, over what she is leading these people into.
Nice little bit of foreshadowing for the ice in bay later when Abrastal thinks her daughter (who is with Hood remember) should be in the bay by now.
“I shall obliterate the enemies before us!”
“Not one Letherii shall leave this place—not one!”
“None there can hope to stop me.”
“I will take you first.”
Cue this character’s humbling in three, two,…
Here’s another hugely cinematic scene I’d love to see done right on the big screen, the menhirs rising up, the cloud, etc. And I love this battle of words and names, the way the power flays Brys, pulls him into that cloud, and how what comes at the end is that one last name—the Forkrul Assail’s god itself. I like Brys thinks of Tehol and Aranict at the end, and the way that dignified, moving, so-formal speech is interrupted by the curt, “Not so fast.”
And then I like how we shift to the women—Aranict refusing to let Brys go, holding on even into the Abyss, even past the point she should be dead (according to Precious), Faint refusing to let “this love die” and willing to bleed herself out to call Mael to help, Precious pulling out of her hysterics and doom and manipulating Amby into the cloud, who pulls them all out one by one. Great moment.
While we expect these heroics from someone like Brys, and while we’ve seen Grub do his bit before obviously, now we get to see Grub as not the scary boy magic kid with the really, really scarily creepy girl, but as a leader of soldiers. And we get a sense perhaps of the seed that will grow into the First Sword down the road. Which is appropriate, as Grub was born (whether literally or metaphorically—though again—the joy of fantasy is one needn’t choose; they aren’t mutually exclusive in this genre) of soldiers, of that famous last stand, that Chain of Dogs. And so it’s so appropriate we get this memory of Coltaine.
That’s a nice goodbye between Spax and Abrastal—emotional yet understated, and it will serve if it must as a final goodbye (though I’m not telling obviously if it must)
Interesting thought of Brys’, that Mael sees Tehol as “the one you would have wanted as your own son.” I’m not sure I see that relationship, despite the closeness of it. Though it is true Bugg shows some pride in Tehol, so maybe so.
Hmm, can it be as easy as Faint thinks—aim a few onagers at the Watered who control the Kolansii and then “this battle is done”?
“He intended to make quick work of this.” Oh, why do they even say it?
I like the realism of Spax feeling his age here, pains, cramps, stitches in the side, having to order soldiers past him because he can’t keep up.
Rain in Daru over Karsa. A good image.
No surprise those guards decided to “simply move on” rather than deal with Karsa and his big ole sword.
And here we are so many thousands of pages later and that thematic image of chains continues to haunt the narrative (and will continue to do so going forward).
Seems like everyone is now starting to understand the Crippled God (some came to it earlier than others).
Those lines of Karsa’s are certainly integral to this series—this idea that to have compassion, love, one must needs have experienced these things. And let’s face it, who would have thought these words would have come from Karsa? The whole tear-down-civilization-for-its-ugliness-and-cruelty? Absolutely. But this language is a nice surprise from a matured Karsa, one who recalls in this scene his “youthful” nature.
While I love Karsa’s views on civilization, and his description above, and I agree with him quite a bit, my favorite, absolutely favorite part of this scene, and one of my favorite scenes in this series, is his scooping up of Munug. His refusal to let this old crippled man die alone and unnoticed, his lines about he will be a “village”—a place where one does not die unnoticed (unwitnessed), nameless, where there are no strangers, where people do not step over bodies, or past them without seeing—(replace bodies with homeless, the poor, and suddenly we’re far, far away from the great barbarian in the fantastical blue-lit city of this made-up world). I love that it is Karsa doing this, love this sentiment, love this moment, love that promise of a world made solely of villages. And so let’s linger over it a while.
Amanda Rutter is the editor of Strange Chemistry books, sister imprint to Angry Robot.
Bill Capossere writes short stories and essays, plays ultimate frisbee, teaches as an adjunct English instructor at several local colleges, and writes SF/F reviews for fantasyliterature.com.
I appreciate hearing about how old and cramped Spax is, too, but
was a bit TMI!!!
—–
If there was a novella written about “Itkovas Lord of Terror among the K’ollass K’Chain Che’Malle of Ethilas Nest” I would not need to know anything else about it before buying three copies :P
—-
If you’d like some insight into what went through SE’s mind as he wrote this:
http://lifeasahuman.com/2010/arts-culture/books/steven-eriksons-notes-on-a-crisis-part-viii-with-regret/
Brys jumping up the Perish banks.
Brys speaking all those names that were hinted to so often.
Brys & Aranict getting rescued by Faint & co.
Grub taking lead.
Spax being old but still going.
These arrogance of the FA.
And of course Karsa & Munig…
Great moments, one and all. We’re definately on the stretch home. Any new reader being able to stop?
@@@@@ Tufty, if you hadn’t placed that link, I would’ve :-)
And didn’t we have some discussion somewhere (sorry, couldn’t find it) whether the Trygalle Guild was a DEM or not? Well, in this case… the TG (or what’s left of it) save the day (a.k.a. Brys and Aranict). Their carriage was smashed down to firewood long ago, they suffered a lot and lost some of themselves during their catching up of Brys’ army.
But still, what would have happened without them being Trygalle Guild? In my opinion completely part of the entire story and worldbuilding, so no DEM. :-)
SamarDev@2:Yep.
While I love Karsa’s views on civilization, and his description above, and I agree with him quite a bit, my favorite, absolutely favorite part of this scene, and one of my favorite scenes in this series, is his scooping up of Munug. His refusal to let this old crippled man die alone and unnoticed, his lines about he will be a “village”—a place where one does not die unnoticed (unwitnessed), nameless, where there are no strangers, where people do not step over bodies, or past them without seeing—(replace bodies with homeless, the poor, and suddenly we’re far, far away from the great barbarian in the fantastical blue-lit city of this made-up world). I love that it is Karsa doing this, love this sentiment, love this moment, love that promise of a world made solely of villages. And so let’s linger over it a while.
I always get weepy-eyed when reading this chapter. This is my second most scene that makes me do that. The first one is yet to come; vets probaly know what it is.
Abrastal vs Spax was awesome. We always saw a sexual vibe between them, but this is a goodbye between Warriors.
I particularly enjoyed the discharge of The Gun That Is Brys’ Collection of Forgotten God Names, set up so many books ago in that dream-like underwater sequence and now finally paying off.
Karsa, you’ve come a long way, baby.
Fiddler@@.-@ re your weepy-eyed-point: that’s probably the one that made me cry as silent as possible, while sitting in a full train (from Groningen to Utrecht). Felt it coming – felt utterly embarrassed but couldn’t stop reading…
Oh yes, this last part is one hell of an emotional roller coaster.
I love the contrast between Brys just trying to get the hell out of here, and Syndecan’s “Gods take me! Think I just pissed my breeches.”
Reminds me of the Stormrider/I hope this works of DoD.
The main battle is just confused chaos, and then the struggle of a charge of Spax turns into “We didn’t even slow them down.”
Karsa … from one who would chop off someone’s hands and legs and drag him round as an example … that’s a heck of a progression.
Civilization be damned sometime.
Bill said…..
“On the one hand, we have the Forkrul Assail who use their sorcery/Voice (hmm, propaganda?) to create unwilling soldiers”
Bill – this is an insightful observation that deserves a little more attention. The FA use their Voice in a direct and invasive way to create an army of unwilling individuals that fight against humans. There is a direct parallel here to “propaganda” in our real world. The end results of, for example Goebel’s and Pol Pot’s Propaganda, have also produced armies that commit atrocities against humanity. Erikson simply takes the use of words/voice and, with the FA, removes the subtlety. Picture, if you will, some old WW2 footage of Hitler addressing a rally of thousands of people in Nazi Germany. These thousands of people hang off his every “word/voice”, chant “Heil Hitler”, and will do anything he commands. Now picture the same scene and replace Hitler with Brother Diligence.
I also loved the Karsa scene. He points out the lack of compassion and love in civilisation and his desire to turn the whole world into villages. We see how far he has travelled when we remember that, 6 books ago, Karsa did live in a world with a collection of villages (his Teblor home land). How ironic that the Karsa we remember from this village showed none of the love and compassion that his travels, through a mainly civilised world, has taught him. He has travelled far indeed.
@@@@@ Samar Dev – I was also trying to hide tears on train (in Melbourne’s rush hour), but my tears were for the scene yet to come that Fiddler hinted at…..
@@@@@Tufty/Samar Dev – thanks for the link
Let me add myself to the list of people in awe of the Munig scene. I’ve been thinking about it for months now as we’ve led up to it. I think it is the most impactful scene in the whole entire series and the summary of the whole point.
@@@@@ Karsa – and made even more impactful when you read the personal emotions this scene had for SE, as detailed in the link in comment #1
I can personally relate to this, and SE made me tear up again
Brys watches Grub take things “well in hand” and orders that he be considered Brys’ second in command. He puts Grub in control of the relief force while Brys stays with the defense force.
Another step toward First Sword?
@10 Agreed — I couldn’t help but think of SE’s dad dying when I read this. I couldn’t help but think of this scene when my Mom died. There was a commentary (perhaps here) when he talked about his dad dying…iirc, it was before the book came out. It had more emotional impact for me than Iktovian dying, Coltaine dying, or anybody else. amazing.
This chapter made me cry. The commentary made me cry again and reading SE’s account (thanks Tufty for the link) made me think of my own fathers passing having not been able to say goodbye properly. A lot of crying then. We celebrated my mother’s 70th birthday last night and I definitely have been more appreciative of her since my father passed away. There are blessings in grief.
@@@@@ Fiddler & SamarDev. If I recall correctly, there are more crying to come(Both sad and happy moments) and yes, I could not stop reading, so much so that I am rereading the series again(as mentioned before in an earlier post) and it is so much more satisfying the second time around. I do have questions that will have to wait until we’ve passed the second epilogue. I don’t want to post them in older posts for fear of spoiling for those new readers. (One of them being my brother)
Thanks SE for the wonderful writing. It is very emotional and inspirational.
This whole chapter is brilliant and I just have to echo the thoughts that have already been posted. I won’t go as far as to say the Karsa – Munug scene is the most moving to me, but it certainly ranks, and it’s particularly so given the path Karsa has trod to reach this understanding.
The Karsa – Munug scene is quite moving in the shared moment of compassion.
Karsa has certainly evolved from where we first met him. His desire to make the world a place where people care is good, but the method of “make a world of villages” could be a frightening and frought path. Compassion or civicide? A fine knife’s edge and we’ll have to see how Karsa will walk that path.
the hits keep coming folks. i can almost feel the thundering heart in Syndecan’s chest as Brys’ horse rears above the Perish encampment. i love that it is all set off by the horrible events that unfolded involving setoc and the wolves. even at the moment that the perish are seemingly at their most lost, their sign is already on the way.
the battle wherein the perish, gilk and toblakai try to slow the kolansii was a bit of shock to me, just because of it’s plain ordinariness and the disappointment. sometimes tactical decisions come too late, as abrastal herself notes, thinking that she should have sent the gilk and teblor with the perish from the start. a very realistic touch.
then of course there are the deep hits. aranict and her fierce devotion, and even faints lesser devotion to the idea of a love like brys-aranict’s.
then when the italics start up again you know that something important is about to happen. amazing to see Karsa again in this fashion. this scene definitely hits the hardest (and we’re not even close to the chapter’s close!) and is an amazing showcase of the themes of the series. the two bits that really choke me up are when karsa first picks munug up and he is confused, asking ‘what are you doing?’ and who could blame him? tenderness is not what you expect of a 8 foot barbarian, and even less expected is karsa willingly taking on the mantle of knight of chains, at least for one night. long enough to fulfill a vow.
Tufty@1: I had the same reaction to Spax’s revelation. Thanks for the link!
SamarDev@2: I agree
Gruntle@8: thanks for picking up and running with the propaganda line. As I’ve said repeatedly, one of the moves I love in fantasy is when the implied or metaphoric becomes literal, as here, when the manipulation of people’s will via propaganda in our world is turned literal thanks to magic. In my own head, for some reason, I was picturing propaganda posters from WWII, but those crowd scenes are a much better analogy.
Oh yeah, the choke up moments aren’t done yet . . .
I have been debating with myself over the past 24 hours whether to post this or not, for three reasons
Firstly this re-read is devoted to the Malazan Book of the Fallen and the post below self indulgently departs from this, albeit a departure that has been prompted by the comments in this re-read.
Secondly, this is a deeply emotional sharing that may not belong here.
Thirdly, I also will refer back to Stevens post in lifeasahuman.com
http://lifeasahuman.com/2010/arts-culture/books/steven-eriksons-notes-on-a-crisis-part-viii-with-regret/
and I hope that I am not taking liberties with this by referring to his personal experience.
But, I hope to show how SE’s Toblakai has helped me resolve the same emotional dilemma that SE talks about in lifeasahuman.com
If my decision to post was wrong I will take absolutely no offense if the post is removed. And will take no offense at any rebukes from this forum.
My journey with a dying parent (my Mother) travelled an opposite path to Steven’s. Mum, like Steven’s Father was also “tragically and infuriatingly” misdiagnosed with cancer. She lived in the UK and I live in Australia. I was fortunate to be able to take a few trips to the UK to spend time with her, but the day ultimately came when, one Friday when my sister called and said “you had better get here now, right now, Mum may not last the weekend”
Three hours later I was on a plane and spent the next 24 hours un-contactable, wondering if I would see Mum alive again or not. In this time I experienced the “will I make it in time” fear.
As it turned out she was still alive and conscious when I landed in the UK.
I saw her in hospital and had one last brief conversation with my (heavily morphine dosed) Mother, before she passed into a coma. She pointed at me and smiled saying “there’s my little boy standing at the end of the bed” We brought her back to her home and a week later she passed away.
Steven Erikson talks of his brother telling him he was the lucky one not having seen his Mother in her last moments. I can sympathise with this. To see you parent waste away to a skeleton, in pain and then die is a mental scar you carry with you daily. Yet, Steven also talks of his regret of not being there when his parents passed away.
And here is where Steven’s Toblakai has helped me resolve the daily mental scars of seeing someone close to you die. It’s not about me; it’s about the dying person I love. It’s not about me being there to hold her hand while she dies; it’s about her having me there to hold her hand while she dies. She deserved to have her son there.
As Karsa says “You will not die uncared for”
As Steven says “It’s not the bed that is sacred, it’s the person lying on the bed”
Thx Karsa, Thx Steven
@18 – thank you for posting. it in no way inappropriate.
@18 – If we can’t talk about how we’re affected in our real lives, what’s even the point of being here and at all?
I’m sure I speak for more people than just myself when I say there’s something special about these books. Something different that sets them apart from other writings. And I want to talk about that; I want to understand why. I want to know why they mean so much to me, and to you, and to everyone who feels this way.
I loved reading your account, Gruntle. I think we can agree that, especially after reading Erikson’s post, that this is what it’s all really about, and that’s worth talking about.
@18 All I can do is echo Karsa and Kargul, thanks for sharing.
I think it is a beautiful (bittersweet) example of how these books are not just entertainment, ‘just’ fantasy. It is literature that affects you, makes you think (and rethink), and relates to your own life.
Gruntle,
Thank you for sharing your story, there is nothing wrong with that.
Gruntle
ditto to the others. Glad you decided as you did
Thank you Gruntle for sharing.
Karsa = bad ass! Let us count the ways:
First a squad of soldiers look him over and despite a city full of backup decide “nah, rather not.”
Second, seems he’s getting ready to raid a temple and confront a god. Third his character growth.
Fourth his insigths.
Fifth that powerful scene with Munug.
As for the Perish plot line, this is why I have look forward to this reread. When I first read the series and got to these last few chapters, I enjoyed them so much and found them so powerful I just couldn’t stop reading. Then I found some of the plot points like what exactly Karsa does and what happens in the Perish showdown, confusing and unclear. Too much, too quick, too powerful. I simply haven’t had the energy or time to reread the books and now that I have these things are so much clearer. Thanks all, and especially Bill and Amanda.
Karsa the compassionate…oh my, such a long journey from the “may you kill a thousand children” warrior from HoC. Like some have said already, the Karsa-Munug scene is one of the most powerful in the entire series. It speaks about a universal truth for us humans, to stop being egotistic and understand that first and foremost it’s about the person that is dying not only about the ones that are left.
@@@@@ Gruntle comment no. 8 : Now I am thinking of a forkrul assail with Hitler’s ridiculous mustache and hair…
And thank you for sharing your experience in comment 18. I think this re-read is the perfect place to share such insightful moments.
It’s nice how the whole scene with the Perish, Gilk & Teblor is set up as a “last heroic stand that will nevertheless succed because of timely intervention from a relief force”TM only to fail miserably because they didn’t have enough time to get in the right position.
I also like the nice little details that SE and ICE give us during battles like the fact that the Evertine legion could not stop the kolansii counter attack because they were mixed with the saphii skirmishers and this prevented them from forming a continuous shield wall.
@Gruntle 18 —
My mom passed four weeks ago in similar circumstances. My heartfelt sympathies. I was reminded at the time of Fiddler’s line (paraphrased here): “We feel grief not because they are gone but we are left behind.”
@27. dtyler
My sympathies too. This will not be an easy time for you.
Funny how these fictitional characters provide such empathy with our real lives. I also loved that line of Fiddlers and had a personal insight from it.
He is good Erikson; Very good.
@Gruntle
8 years later and no idea if people come back to these comments, but your post @18 has me blubbing away and I really appreciate you being so vulnerable in a public forum. I also live a plane journey away from my family and your experience touched me in a way I wasn’t expecting. Thank you.