Welcome back to the Rhythm of War Reread my friends! I’ll say right up front that this was a tough chapter to get through. Many of us have distrusted—and generally disliked—Taravangian ever since the end of The Way of Kings, and this conversation with him is frustrating in so many ways. He can be so right and so wrong at the same time. Well, come on in and join the discussion, and let’s see what we can do with it.
Reminder: We’ll be discussing spoilers for the entirety of the series up until now. If you haven’t read ALL of the published entries of The Stormlight Archive (this includes Edgedancer and Dawnshard as well as the entirety of Rhythm of War), best to wait to join us until you’re done.
In this week’s discussion we really don’t address any wider Cosmere issues, other than what’s brought up near the end of this book.
Also worth noting—I added a bunch of stuff at the eleventh hour, so Paige didn’t have a chance to respond. My apologies to all!
Heralds: Ishi (Ishar), Herald of Luck. Bondsmiths (Tension, Adhesion). Pious/Guiding. Role: Priest.
Jezrien (Jezerezeh, Yaezir, Ahu), Herald of Kings. Windrunners (Adhesion, Gravitation). Protecting/Leading. Role: King.
A: Hey, they’re pretty straightforward this week! Ishar, for Dalinar’s Bondsmithing, and Jezrien for the discussions of the two kings about kingship. (On further reflection, it’s also possible that Taravangian reflects Ishar’s view of leadership, while Dalinar is in line with Jezrien’s view. Maybe? It would be an interesting comparison, anyway.)
Icon: Kholin Glyphpair, for Dalinar’s POV.
Epigraph: From Rhythm of War, page 21 undertext:
I am not convinced any of the gods can be destroyed, so perhaps I misspoke. They can change state however, like a spren—or like the various Lights. This is what we seek.
P: This seems like Raboniel to me.
A: I agree; I don’t think Navani knows enough (or has enough time to think) about the nature of gods, much less their various essences, to be talking like this. Also, does this mean Raboniel believes Honor is still living? Or is she conflating the god with the Investiture?
Chapter Recap
WHO: Dalinar
WHEN: 1175.4.8.2 (If correct, this is two days after Jasnah’s battle in Chapter 64)
WHERE: The coalition warcamp in Emul
(Note: For the “when” notations, we are using this wonderful timeline provided by the folks at The 17th Shard.)
RECAP: The chapter opens with Dalinar testing the Bondsmith powers he discovered in his confrontation with Nale back in Chapter 47. Neither he nor the Stormfather really know what to do with his ability to see Connections, and he is frustrated at his slow progress in developing his powers. At a standstill, he decides it’s time to go have the long-delayed conversation with Taravangian. Taravangian remains convinced that his One Brilliant Day held all the right answers, and that by saving Kharbranth, he did the very best that could have been done for humanity on Roshar. Dalinar, on the other hand, insists that no one—not even the Shards—can know the future perfectly, and there’s no way to be sure that Odium will indeed win. They also return to their old disagreement over whether it’s possible for a king to be a moral person. In the end, they come to no agreement; Dalinar refuses to have him executed, saying that Taravangian will live to see Dalinar defeat Odium and know that he was wrong. After they leave, Szeth warns Dalinar not to trust Taravangian—and he doesn’t.
Chapter Chatter — Dalinar and Taravangian
A: This chapter had us reduced to incoherent sputtering far too often—struggling to find (FCC-compliant) language to express our feelings. We may or may not have succeeded… As much as Dalinar doesn’t trust Taravangian, he still has some lingering liking for the man who was once his friend. Paige and I do not share that liking.
P: We are in definite agreement on feelings from this chapter. I’ll try to use in-world swears!
It had felt wrong to give Taravangian a home instead of a cell—but seeing those windows, it also felt wrong to leave him without sunlight.
A: Dalinar is a good man, you know? It bothers him to see someone deprived of sunlight, even if that person did deliberately betray them, explicitly to allow the Fused to capture Urithiru. Foul git. More on this in a minute.
P: Granted, Dalinar doesn’t know that the betrayal is all about giving the Fused access to Urithiru… but I feel he should have realized something was up, brilliant tactician that he is.
They all thought the precautions were to prevent Taravangian from being rescued, and would never have wondered whether the Blackthorn could handle himself against an elderly statesman.
They didn’t have any inkling, even now, how dangerous Taravangian was.
A: I mean… he’s not wrong, I guess. But what exactly is Dalinar thinking about? The possibility of Taravangian manipulating him? He refers to that a couple of times. Or is it more about his connection to Odium, and the possibility of Odium working through Taravangian to do something more direct than verbal manipulation?
P: I would think both. Taravangian is nothing if not manipulative. And Dalinar doesn’t know what kind of influence or connection he might have with Odium so who knows what Taravangian or Odium might be capable of.
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Rhythm of War
“I wanted to be certain I wasn’t somehow being manipulated,” Dalinar said, honestly. “So I waited until certain tasks were accomplished before coming to you, and risking letting you influence me.”
A: Okay, that’s the answer he’ll say out loud… but yeah, Paige, I agree. It’s both.
P: Yup. I don’t see why Dalinar even wanted to talk to the man, much less sit and chat as if they were still friends. Taravangian’s friendship was never genuine, in my opinion, so I feel as if Dalinar is outright allowing himself to be manipulated just by being there.
A: Right? While I recognize that it was necessary for the plot, it infuriates me to see Dalinar subjecting himself to this. Just… Gaaaaaaah. TBBBBPTBBBT.
P: *more incoherent sputtering*
Perhaps he should have let Jasnah interrogate Taravangian, as she’d suggested. But that seemed the coward’s route.
A: Gah. Just because something would have been easier doesn’t necessarily make it cowardly. Why not consider who would do the best job of it? I’m betting that Jasnah and Wit would have been… very thorough. The only possible advantage Dalinar could have is a deeper understanding of this particular personality—but he was fooled so long that I’m not sure that’s a valid consideration. I love Dalinar in so many ways, but he has some serious blind spots.
P: Stupid Alethi standards and stupid fear of cowardice. This has nothing to do with bravery and everything to do with wanting to hear T say he was wrong, which he won’t do. Because he truly feels that he was in the right in this whole thing. Jasnah and Wit would have been AWESOME at interviewing T. I would have LOVED to have read that scene!
A: (Sometimes I’m so torn between “what’s right for the storytelling” and “what I wish they had done.” At least Sanderson rarely uses inexplicable stupidity to justify doing these things; he makes the characters believably stupid. Or, you know, they have believable blind spots and weaknesses and worldviews that make them do stupid stuff. Sorta like… people. *sigh*)
P: Stupid human weaknesses.
“That stool is too uncomfortable for a man of your years. You should be given a chair. I thought they’d left the building furnished. Do you have a bed? And surely they gave you more than a single sphere for light.”
“Dalinar, Dalinar,” Taravangian whispered. “If you wish me to have comfort, don’t ask after the chair or the light. Answer my questions and talk to me. I need that more than—”
A: Here’s the “more” I promised a minute ago… GAHHH. No one cares about making you emotionally comfortable, you miserable old troll. Dalinar just doesn’t like needless physical cruelty to a frail old man. GAH. Just shut up. (Okay, every time he shows up I distrust and dislike him more. What can I say?)
P: We are of one mind here, as we are with Moash. I have no good feelings of any sort for Taravangian so I even hate that Dalinar wants him to have more light and a comfortable chair. Who gives a storming damn what might make him feel more at home. He betrayed you, Dalinar. For Honor’s sake, don’t be sucked into his whole, “I did what I thought was best” nonsense.
I’m sure you can all imagine the swears that I really want to use!
A: Heh. Indeed.
“Why? Why did you do it?”
“Because, Dalinar, you’re going to lose. I’m sorry, my friend. It is unavoidable.”
“You can’t know that.”
“Yet I do.”
A: That pretty much sums up this entire conversation. Taravangian has such confidence in his Brilliant Day that he’s absolutely certain he’s right, and Dalinar will lose. And Dalinar is equally certain that no matter how brilliant he was that day, Taravangian couldn’t possibly see the future clearly enough to be 100% sure that there’s no chance of winning. And the only way they’ll resolve it is by playing it out. And of course, I want to smack Taravangian around for doing his very best to make sure Dalinar will lose, by throwing every possible support to Odium… Gah. #$^%# quisling.
P: This is exactly my problem with this. Taravangian is so sure of Odium’s victory that he’s ready to screw everyone else on Roshar in order to MAYBE secure safety for his relatively small city. Do we really believe that Odium will spare this one city? Well… maybe Taravanian as Odium will, but is he any better as Odium than Rayse? I don’t trust him one iota as a king or as bearer of a shard.
A: Right? The only thing that protects Kharbranth is that a Shard is unable to directly break an oath, but… I suspect that Odium could get around that particular agreement pretty easily.
Moving on… I won’t quote it because we already know about it, but Taravangian spends some time explaining about visiting the Valley and his Diagram—and of course the two men draw opposite conclusions from it.
“Cultivation,” he said. “There is one who can face Odium. There were three gods.”
“She won’t fight him,” Taravangian said. “She knows. How do you think I found out we’d lose?”
A: Gah. The really frustrating thing about this is that we still don’t know quite what game Cultivation is playing. We know that she was setting Taravangian up to kill Rayse and take the power of Odium, but to what end? Is Taravangian right that she won’t fight, and (later) that she made a huge mistake in giving him the power? Or is he blinded by the power and doesn’t understand nearly as much as he thinks he does? I’m personally holding to the theory that she’s “good” (i.e. in opposition to Odium’s plans), though there are multiple theories about that too.
P: I definitely think that Taravangian will be blinded by the power of the shard and that he will think that the singers should dominate… His vision when he thought he was brilliant has overpowered his compassion. And I feel that’s to his detriment.
A: It really is, no matter how necessary it is to the plot.
The whole next section is one of those infuriating “begging the question” arguments, in which Taravangian IMO misinterprets Cultivation’s actions by assuming the answer he’s trying to prove. He assumes that since he asked for the power to stop what was coming, and she gave him Brilliant Day, that held all the secrets—and since the Diagram said Odium would beat Dalinar, Cultivation knew that’s what would happen. He doesn’t consider that Brilliant Day might have been merely a side effect of her actual gift: the swing between emotion and intellect that gave him the insight to using Nightblood’s power, and the vulnerability that made Odium think him no threat, and the emotional state that allowed him to take up a Shard so emotional in essence. I think (speculation ahoy!) what she really intended to give him was the capacity to kill Rayse and take up the Shard—because once he became the Vessel for Odium, he clearly could stop the whole thing. But then, power-hungry egoist that he is, once he picks up the Shard, all he thinks of is how he can improve on Odium’s plan, rather than realizing he could stop it. GAAAAHHH! She really did give him the capacity to stop what was coming, and he’s completely oblivious to that possibility. (I’m sure I’ll rant about this again in the chapter where he Ascends…)
“Isn’t that the way of the soldier? Accept your losses, and do what you can?”
“So you sold us out? You helped hasten our destruction?”
“For a price, Dalinar,” Taravangian said, staring again at the ruby that was the room’s hearth. “I did preserve Kharbranth. I tried, I promise you, to protect more. But it is as the Radiants say. Life before death. I saved the lives of as many as I could—”
“Don’t use that phrase,” Dalinar said. “Don’t sully it, Taravangian, with your crass justifications.”
A: Hear, hear, Dalinar! I’m pretty sure I’ve commented before on how Taravangian made the Diagram, his Brilliant Day, and his Brilliant Self into the only thing he worshiped—a very unholy trinity indeed. More and more, especially in digging into this chapter, I think he completely blinded himself to the larger picture. He’s made himself incapable of realizing that (as Dalinar keeps trying to point out) the Diagram is in fact flawed by an imperfect vision of the future. The really ironic part is that he’s aware of Odium’s blind spot caused by Renarin’s ability to see and therefore change the future, and he’s going to make use of it to outmaneuver Rayse. And yet he still can’t see that the Diagram has exactly the same problem.
So then they argue over motivations, and I’m not convinced that Taravangian actually believes any of the crem he says—he just says things that he thinks will hurt or make Dalinar second-guess himself. He brings up the days of the Blackthorn, burning cities to preserve the kingdom. When that doesn’t really fly, he accuses Dalinar of pride: “if you cared about protecting them, you’d surrender, but your real ideal is never giving up.” Fortunately, Dalinar doesn’t succumb to that one either; instead, pointing out that Taravangian gave up before the fight ever started, because he assumed he knew the future perfectly. Taravangian claims that he would like to be proved wrong—and again, Dalinar doesn’t buy it:
“I would die happily,” Taravangian said, “if I could see that I was wrong. If you won.”
“I don’t think you would. I don’t think you could stand not being the one who saved us.”
A: They wrangle over this for a while, but I think Dalinar is right—and is proven right in Part Five when Taravangian Ascends. Lucky for our sanity, Dalinar pulls no punches in telling Taravangian how ridiculous his arguments are. There was no need to assassinate the leaders of half the countries on Roshar, there was no need to become king of Jah Keved, there was no need to try to assassinate Dalinar. I love the way he turns this particular argument back on Taravangian, too:
“Pardon, Blackthorn, but please remember the man you were when I began this. He would not have listened to me.”
“You’re so smart you can predict who will win a war before it begins, but you couldn’t see that I was changing? You couldn’t see that I’d be more valuable as an ally than as a corpse?”
“I thought you would fall, Dalinar. I predicted you would join Odium, if left alive. Either that or you would fight my every step. Odium thought the same.”
“And you were both wrong,” Dalinar said. “So your grand plan, your masterful ‘vision’ of the future was simply wrong.”
A: And there’s no argument against that, because for all their vaunted future sight, Dalinar was a different man than the one the Diagram assumed. (Makes me want to go back and reread the end of Oathbringer. “You cannot have my pain!”) They were wrong. Taravangian implies that if he weren’t having a stupid day, he could explain it, but that doesn’t change the fact that the were wrong already.
One thing Taravangian mentions, which will come up again later when Jasnah, Wit, and Dalinar plan their terms for the Contest, is something we have yet to see in full—and I dread it:
Odium will arrange things so that no matter what choice you make, he will win.
A: Wit warned of this, and we don’t really know how it’s going to play out; all we know is that the precautions they took ended up not quite working the way they’d planned. (I need to reread the conversations between Dalinar and Odium… but I suppose we’ll find out in the next book just who outmaneuvered whom.)
“You wanted power, Taravangian—so you could give it up. You wanted to be the glorious king who sacrificed himself to protect everyone else. You have always seen yourself as the man who must bear the burden of leading.”
“Because it’s true.”
“Because you like it.”
A: IMO, Dalinar whanged the nail on the crumpet there. Taravangian does like having power, but even more than that, he likes the idea of being the “noble, self-sacrificing king”—the self-righteous little prat. I love that Dalinar hammers it home, over and over, because Taravangian’s defense is just so lame.
“It could have gone differently. You could have truly joined with us. Storms… I can imagine a world where you said the oaths. I imagine you as a better leader than I ever could have been. I feel like you were so close.”
“No, my friend,” Taravangian said. “A monarch cannot make such oaths and expect to be able to keep them. He must realize that a greater need might arise at any time.”
[…]
“No,” Dalinar said. “There is a just way to victory. The methods must match the ideal to be obtained.”
A: Back to the many discussions of previous days. Nohadon and The Way of Kings. Oaths. Ideals. Morality. They’ve had this debate so many times, and neither can convince the other. Frankly, Taravangian can’t afford to change his mind on this, because if Dalinar is right, Taravangian has committed atrocities and abuses for no reason. He knows he’s committed them, but as long as he believes it’s the necessary burden of a king, he can justify it all. If he’s wrong, and he is, even he would be unable to forgive himself.
This chapter is one of the few whose title isn’t quite a direct quote from the chapter itself, but there’s a theme running through the debate: Is it possible to be a good man and a good king at the same time? Dalinar thinks it is, and in fact must be—that in order to be a good king, you must be a good man. Taravangian, on the other hand, says that to be a king is:
“To accept that you must do what others cannot […] To bear the agonies of the decisions you had to make, so that others may live pure lives.”
A: Talenel is known as “the Bearer of Agonies,” and Taravangian wants to be seen as being equally noble—but without actually sacrificing anything that matters to him. The only thing he actually gave up was being with his family in (what he expected to be) the last few weeks of his life; while that’s not nothing, it’s not really much, either. He was away from them a great deal already, and he’d made sure they would survive the expected defeat of the humans (or he thinks so). But he can tell himself that he’s bearing the great burden of making the hard decisions.
Actually, there’s something else he gave up: integrity. But he gave that up a long, long time ago, opting instead for his “noble sacrifice” approach of making evil decisions “for the greater good” and all that rot.
No, I really don’t like him any at all.
“You have lived your convictions, however misguided they may be. Now I’m going to live mine. And at the end, when I face Odium and win, you will be there. I’ll give you this gift.”
“The pain of knowing I was wrong?”
“You told me earlier that you wished to be proven wrong. If you’re sincere—and this was never about being right or about gaining power—then on that day we can embrace, knowing it is all over. Old friend.”
A: And on that day, Taravangian will know that he was wrong, and he will be furious about it. When it comes to the point, he loves all that power, and the thought of a whole Cosmere to set right by making all the “hard decisions”—for other people to die—is far too tempting to let go. Despicable megalomaniac.
Oaths Spoken, Powers Awakened
He could see something extending from the soldier, radiating into the darkness. Pure white lines, thin as a hair.
A: This is, as promised, an experiment with seeing Connection as he did when confronting Nale in the battle. It’s pretty cool that he can see these lines, and I’m just sure he’ll figure out how to make use of them… eventually…
The power of Bondsmiths was tempered by Honor, for the good of all. Ever since the destruction of Ashyn. […] Melishi saw these lines. […] Honor was dying, possibly mad.
A: Okay, I love this kind of thing, even though there are no clear answers.
First question: Was it only or especially the power of the Bondsmiths that Honor felt it necessary to temper after they destroyed Ashyn? I can believe either one, particularly if Ishar was leading the way and it was primarily Bondsmith powers that caused the destruction. But I don’t think we know, do we? (Or am I just forgetting?)
More questions: Was Melishi the first Bondsmith to see these? (What about Ishar?) Did they only become visible once Honor was dying and losing control of things? Or was it just a rare gift, and when it happened before it was far enough back that the Stormfather doesn’t remember it?
My best speculation (a.k.a. Tin-Foil Theory, but I’m leaving it here anyway) is that A) Ishar was primarily responsible for the destruction, through overconfident use of Surgebinding and particularly Adhesion; B) Honor decided that Surgebinding needed more limits—and especially Adhesion; C) there’s something about the power of Connection and these lines that can be used to great effect… to good or ill, depending on the wisdom, intention, and self-control of the user; D) Melishi used them in his scheme to trap Ba-Ado-Mishram, with… mixed results; E) Dalinar will learn to use them before the Contest of Champions, and it will be a deciding factor one way or the other.
Spren have these too, the Stormfather said. And the bond that makes Radiants is similar, but far stronger. I don’t think these little ones are particularly useful.
“Surely these mean something,” Dalinar said.
Yes, the Stormfather said. But that doesn’t mean they can be exploited.
A: Um… is there a chance that this is what Ishar is using in his spren experiments? That would be extremely creepy, and would convince me that this ability really needs to be constrained!
Aside from that, though, the knowledge that spren have these lines, and Radiant bonds are similar, is… well, I’m not sure. Fascinating, but also fearful. Isn’t this what Ishar uses to try to steal Dalinar’s bond with Stormfather? An unscrupulous Bondsmith could do terrible things to Radiants.
More speculation—and this time something I really don’t want to see turn out to be right: If Dalinar were to lose the Contest of Champions, could he be forced to manipulate the bonds of the Radiants and make them become Odium’s servants?
Humans
Jasnah and the others should be returning from the front lines soon. The battle won, the celebrations completed. All without Dalinar.
A: Just a quick reminder that they won the battle two chapters ago… Funny thing: As weird as it felt for Jasnah to be out there fighting, how weird did it feel for Dalinar to not be there?
Speaking of not being there, he’s more worried about Navani and Adolin than about Jasnah—and with good reason.
Shared destinies, shared fates, yet Dalinar felt powerless to help either his son or his wife.
You do have a part in this, he told himself firmly. A duty. Master these powers. Best Odium. Think on a scale bigger than one battle, or even one war.
A: Not only can he not help them, he can’t even communicate with them. Jasnah has an army, capable generals, Wit, and her own Elsecaller powers to keep her safe.
Adolin, on the other hand, is in unknown, possibly hostile territory, with no resources other than what they took along—and it’s worth noting that (if the 17th Shard timeline is correct) Adolin & co. entered Lasting Integrity the same day as Jasnah’s battle. While Dalinar is worrying about him, Adolin is a virtual prisoner of the honorspren, separated from Maya (but not from Shallan and Pattern, yay) and beginning the studies to prepare for his trial.
Meanwhile, Navani is also cut off from communication, her soldiers are either dead or captive except for one Windrunner, and she’s in isolation trying to research things that will help whoever controls the knowledge. Though we won’t get there for another 10 chapters, this is the same day that Navani and Raboniel create the Rhythm of War for the first time.
So, yes, Dalinar is right to be more concerned about his son and his wife, than about his niece!
Taravangian glanced at Szeth briefly and hesitated. Dalinar thought he caught a narrowing of the man’s eyes. Damnation. He’d figured it out.
A: There are just enough mentions of Szeth in the chapter to make sure we don’t forget he’s there, plus this one indication that Taravangian has realized he’s there. This will be important later, as we know.
As they walked away, Szeth spoke from behind him. “Do not trust his lies. He pretends to be done plotting, but there is more to him. There is always more to that one.”
Dalinar glanced at the stoic bodyguard. Szeth so rarely offered opinions.
“I don’t trust him,” Dalinar said. “I can’t walk away from any conversation with that man, no matter how innocent, without going over and over what he said. That’s part of why I was so hesitant to go in there.”
A: I agree with Szeth; it is wise to be hesitant to talk to Taravangian! Not only is it incredibly frustrating, you’re always in danger of getting twisted around and doing something you’ll regret.
We’ll be leaving further speculation and discussion to you in the comments, so have fun! Next week, we’ll be back with chapter 67, in which Venli begins to delve into her Willshaper powers.
Alice lives in the Pacific Northwest with her husband and two kids. She’s discovering that while she’s mostly recovered from That Stuff, the brain fog and fatigue take a while to go away. Hopefully it doesn’t show too much in her writing.
Paige resides in New Mexico, of course. She works full-time, goes to school full-time, beta reads part-time, mods/admins 3 Stormlight-themed Facebook groups part-time, and writes part-time. She wishes sleep wasn’t necessary because there’s just too storming much to do! Links to her other writing are available in her profile.
“You have lived your convictions, however misguided they may be. Now I’m going to live mine. And at the end, when I face Odium and win, you will be there. I’ll give you this gift.”
“The pain of knowing I was wrong?”
“You told me earlier that you wished to be proven wrong. If you’re sincere—and this was never about being right or about gaining power—then on that day we can embrace, knowing it is all over. Old friend.”
This is one of those parts that I wonder if it’s foreshadowing for Dalinar losing the Contest; he becomes Todium’s Fused, but their forced time together means Dalinar will finally get to convince T, and thus Odium will be… tempered. Or turned into Opium by Stupid Autocorrect, that might work too
What T is missing in this case is that Talenal is the only Herald who wasn’t a noble. He was a soldier. Bearing agonies, especially those of your own making, is not the province of kings.
I liked this chapter quite a bit. Mister T is clearly the hero of his own story, and he’s smart enough to be dangerous, and when he’s scheming I’m genuinely afraid for the heros. Moash is just angry – believably angry, sure, and a great bad guy, but I don’t feel like he’s going to surprise anybody. Mister T is a snake that you can never turn your back on – I find him to be a much more satisfying villain.
I continue to think (and hope) that Taravangian is handily defeated in Book Five, thus leading to the revelation of The Real Threat for the Back Five books (which I doubt I’ll live to read).
Brandon himself says that someone whose plots always fail is not a scary villain. He gave it as a reason to kill off Rayse, but T. has also almost never succeeded in a plot. He’s toast. In fact, a great twist that I could be ruining is to have him just get waxed about 1/3 of the way through This is the last book of the first half. (Real title not yet confirmed, but we know its initials will be KOW.)
Then again, I’m in the group who was very disappointed Brandon chose to ruin Kelsier’s whole story arc by keeping him alive(-ish) past the end of The Final Empire.
The biggest tragedy to this whole thing for me is Cultivation’s inability to shatter the shard of Odium. She has to change it or “grow” it somehow. She can’t think beyond the intent of the Shard she holds anymore. All that brilliant maneuvering and she just makes the problem worse. S
Paige said “Taravangian’s friendship was never genuine, in my opinion.” I disagree. There is a chapter where we have a POV where he muses that he did not wish things did not have to proceed as they would when he explained his plans to do something to Dalinar (I believe this occurred in Oathbringer, but I may be wrong). If I am remembering this chapter, Taravangian was surprised that he had become fond of Dalinar, and actually considered Dalinar a friend. Taravangian reasoned, nevertheless, that friendship should not come in the way of fulfilling the Diagram as Taravangian believed it should be interpreted.
Thanks for reading my musings.
musespren
In defense of Dalinar: I believe it’s a very human trait to not want to give up on an old friend. How many of us have given “yet another chance” to someone who has hurt us? That hope that you can just finally find that perfect thing to say that “makes them see”. I suppose that same urge is what creates an enabler, always giving one more chance to someone who has no right to one.
If I follow this same thought; will Mr T as Odium finally hit rock bottom like an addict that couldn’t/wouldn’t face what they had become until that lowest moment? What a twist that would be! Odium in the last minute before his ultimate victory shattering the shard.
necessary_eagle @1 – Okay, I really like that possibility. Dalinar loses (I don’t want him to lose, but I do expect him to) but is then able to persuade TOdium to change his plans. He might have to do the persuading as a Cognitive Shadow, but that would be fine.
Also, I laughed out loud at your strike-out comment. :D
Roger @2 – I’m not sure how much of that is common knowledge, but then again Taravangian had access to a lot more information than most people on Roshar. In any case, as you say, bearing the agonies is hardly the province of kings. He might bear the weight of making the decision, but it’s the common soldiers and the ordinary people who will actually suffer the consequences of those decisions. Which… thinking about it that way makes me even less sympathetic to his position. I didn’t think that was possible!
Aon_Dork @3 – I’ll definitely agree that Taravangian is a more satisfying villain by virtue of his complexity and the potential for truly devilish schemes. I still hate these chapters, particularly in this setting where I need to interact with the text, not just read it and growl!
Carl @@.-@ – I certainly expect that the ending of KOW will reveal the Big Bad for the back five. I just don’t know whether it’s going to be TOdium or someone else. I could list a bunch of different possibilities, all equally terrifying, but I’m still sorta betting that what Sanderson comes up with will be more threatening than whatever I’ve imagined.
CireNaes @5 – I’m still hoping Cultivation’s role plays out positively, somehow. I’m not sure whether she outmaneuvered Odium or herself with this project, but you’re probably right that her Shard’s Intent prevents her from simply splintering Odium. If she held that as a valid solution, she and Honor could probably have done it thousands of years ago – unless it’s simply impossible to use the power of Cultivation to attack another Shard. I wonder… is it that she couldn’t think beyond the Intent of her Shard, or that it’s not possible to use the power in a way that’s not consistent with the Intent?
Andrew @6 – Friendship is complicated, sometimes. It’s quite possible that Taravangian developed a genuine liking for Dalinar without becoming a genuine friend. If nothing else, it could be argued that you aren’t truly a friend to someone you’re planning to destroy for your own ends, no matter how much you like them.
goddess @7 – You’re right, of course; Dalinar keeps hoping that if he tries hard enough, he can finally convince Taravangian – even now that it looks like it’s too late and the betrayal is done. It’s a very human thing to do. Also, I like that theory about Taravangian shattering his own Shard at the critical moment. That would be a cool twist – and quite a redemption arc.
Thanks ladies! This was a tough one.
I really hate Taravangian, maybe more than Moash. I HATED that Dalinar went to talk to him and totally did not understand why he didn’t execute him as a traitor. Dalinar is being a good person. And good people often don’t see the bad things bad people can do.
Back to the note about gods at the top—I thought last week that the undertext contained a fallacy. Their gods are not God, but broken pieces of one, and nothing can truly be destroyed, only changed.
Building on what Alice said in #8: Taravangian is killed in The Duel. Moash takes up the Shard of Odium. He’s all about self-hatred. Filled with Passion and utter loathing for himself, he Shatters the Shard, killing and redeeming himself (even if our hosts don’t want redemption for him). Then Unity absorbs the splinters of Odium?
Re: Cultivation
It’s been mentioned/questioned beef, but did she manage to graft a piece of herself on Odium? Considering the problems Sazed has been having reconciling multiple Shards, it makes me curious if it will act as a cancer destroying Odium from within or if it will be a small influence that tempers the Shard. Evidence for the latter may be the growth of Odium’s plans (although that might also be attributed to the change from Rayse to Taravangian).
Wetlandernw @8 re: shardbearers wielding power against the shard’s intent.
I believe we have evidence that this is possible, but a) difficult in general, b) difficult to the point of being impossible after long enough bearing the shard, and c) may be inherently self-destructive. I refer of course to [The Hero of Ages] Vin using Preservation to kill Ati/Ruin. Possibly such an action requires that the end goal still be in line with the shard’s intent, but that’s a much easier restriction to deal with–e.g. possibly Cultivation could shatter a shard as long as she could convince herself that the shard’s destruction would ultimately lead to net growth/evolution of some kind.
Yeah. I’m under the impression that the bearer has way more flexibility, but is short on know how in the earlier stages of ascending (bummer that TOdium is going to have a leg up with Cultivation showing him the ropes). As the bearer’s knowledge and experience grows they begin to lose their flexibility beyond the intent of the Shard. Then much of their personality is…altered? Consumed? Hard to put a word on it, Ruin is a good example. Sazed progresses through stage one and then starts to suffer stage two, necessitating action through proxy characters to gain more flexibility by separating the characteristics of ruin and preservation through agents. He talks about struggle bussing against the intent of the shards he holds to effect positive change when he corresponds with Hoid if I remember right
One of the best chapters in this book.
Finally, Brandon wrote really interesting protagonist/antagonist dynamic. Too bad that only one chapter was dedicated to Dalinar and Taravangian. I’d choose them over fabrial info dumping and mostly useless flashbacks any day.
BTW, Cultivation can certainly “prune”. I’m not sure why people think its Intent prevents it from killing. Gardeners set traps for vermin (or just shoot them) all the time.
15) Carl, Yeah Cultivation can kill. You have a bad crop, a crop with a fungus, etc. You might need to kill parts of the field, if not the whole field even to prevent spread.
8) Alice, I wonder who else you are seeing as the big bad of the back 5? Kelsier? Who terrifies you?
Carl @10
I’d accept that solution. :D
Roger @11 – Hmm. I don’t recall the suggestion that Cultivation managed to graft a little of herself onto Odium, but… Hmm. If Taravangian’s soul held some piece of Cultivation’s Investiture, that would be an amazing and awesome effect. It might take time for her influence to affect anything, but what an absolutely lovely bit of sabotage that would be.
tiornys @12 – Good point. I’d forgotten about that particular twist. So it might be possible, but definitely easier if the Vessel can convince him/herself that the action is in some way aligned with the Shard’s Intent. Worth pondering!
jer @16 – TOdium freed, Autonomy, an unknown Shard, Hoid… but what really terrifies me is that Sanderson is almost always capable of coming up with something scarier than I’d thought about! (I have had some other more specific thoughts, but right now I can’t remember what they were. Brain fog bites again.)
I hate Taravangian as a person, mostly because he had hundreds of blameless civilians slowly murdered in utterly cold blood for the Death Rattles that he knew might be misdirection anyway. But I’ve loved him as a villain, for the complexity of his motives and the unpredictability (to me) of his actions.
@17 Wetlandernw
The suggestion comes because Lift was able to recognize that Dalinar had seen Cultivation, not just the Night Mother. There must be something more than the effect of the boon/curse that can be distinguished.
Regarding Mr. T’s future, the outcome of the contest of Champions, and the Big Bad of the back five, I have a theory. I agree with @Wetlandernw that it’s inevitable that Taravangian will win. Dalinar might have stood a chance against Rayse, but Taravangian knows him too well and, as Hoid brought up, Odium will almost certainly arrange things so that he cannot lose. If Taravangian was able to pull one over on Hoid I have a hard time imagining Dalinar getting the better of him.
When Taravangian wins the Contest he’s going to get control of Dalinar, which includes Dalinar’s bond with the Stormfather. I think he will force Dalinar to pass that bond to him (similar to how Ishar tried to steal Dalinar’s Connection to the Stormfather). In doing so, Taravangian will gain control of the largest remaining chunk of Honor’s Investiture as well as a Connection to Honor’s Cognitive Shadow, which I think will give him what he needs to remake the Shard of Honor and then take it for himself. Rayse was never interested in taking up other Shards because he didn’t want his Intent to change, but I don’t see Taravangian having that same mindset. When Odium takes the Shard of Honor, Taravangian will then become the Shard of War.
I think it’s almost an inevitability that we will see a Shard of War at some point in the series, and I would be willing to gamble a few spheres that War will be the Big Bad in the back five. Brandon spent way too much time discussing how Honor’s Investiture (Stormlight) combines with Odium’s Investiture (Voidlight) to create Warlight for that not to be relevant in the future; he’s not the sort of writer to devote that much page time to something and then not use it. I’ve also been doing a re-listen and I think I’ve caught instances of Brandon foreshadowing this from the very beginning. At the end of WoK Taln shows up, and how does he announce himself? “I am Talenel’Elin, Herald of War”. Herald, as in one who announces the coming of someone or something, and War. Yes, in the immediate sense he’s announcing the coming of the Desolation and the war which will accompany it but reading it with my theory in mind I couldn’t help but wonder if that wasn’t also foreshadowing the War Shard.
I could be way off base with that theory and probably need to invest in more foil-lined headwear, but there’s just something about it that really resonates with me.
If I may be permitted to add another layer of foil to my hat here, it just occurred to me that if I’m correct and book 5 introduces us to War, that might provide a hint at the title. If Dalinar, Knight Radiant, loses and becomes a servant of War, then “KoW” could be Knight of War.
Okay, I’m taking off my hat before I fall too far too far down this rabbit hole (lol).
@lance, I like your idea about a combined Shard of War, but here’s an alternative:
How about the other way? Dalinar uses a Bondsmith’s power, as shown by Ishar, to steal Taravangian’s bond with Odium and combines it with the remains of Honor (canonically not dead as long as he lives in the hearts of men), thus living up to his name of Unity, carefully ignored even by Dalinar in his own thoughts, for an entire very long novel.
Could Dalinar-as-he-is steal Odium? No, I’m sure he couldn’t.
… at least, not without the help of Cultivation. Who just happens to be right there on Roshar. And maybe the help of Endowment, who has been sending her Slivers there for centuries, which I suspect she couldn’t do without the permission of one of the resident Shards. (All the Returned are Slivers of Endowment.) It was, of course, Endowment who said that if Odium became a danger, “… he shall be dealt with.” (I might have that quote a word or two off.)
@carl;
That’s…..that’s a very interesting take on the idea. I like the way it potentially involves both Cultivation and Endowment working together to bring Odium down as it would give a little more depth to Endowment’s response to Hoid’s request for help. I could also see Cultivation arranging things so that Dalinar takes up both Honor and Odium and then giving her Shard to him as well to create the supershard of Unity. That would ensure the threat caused by Rayse and Odium has been dealt with, her husband has been avenged, and allow her to go join her husband in the Beyond knowing she has left the Cosmere with Unity. I’m not sure how likely I think that idea is to happen, but I really like it.
I think there are two big question marks that we need more information about. First is the nature of Connection and if/how it changes over time. We know Odium initially forged a Connection to Dalinar through the Thrill, especially during Dalinar’s warlord days. However, when we met him in WoK he was actively trying to avoid battle when he could, trying to bring the highprinces (and later the monarchs) together in unity, and the Thrill was increasingly sporadic in coming to him. Ultimately, we see Dalinar trap Nergaoul in a gemstone at the Battle of Thaylen Field. What does this mean for Dalinar’s Connection to Odium? Did trapping the Thrill sever it, the way trapping Ba-Ado-Mishram severed the Singers’ Connections to Roshar and their Identities? If the Connection is still there, is it changing or diminishing in any way due to Dalinar’s continued struggle against Odium, or is Connection something that once created will always be there? We know that a Vessel has to have enough of a Connection to the Shard’s Intent to be able to take it up, but right now I don’t know that we have enough information on how Connection works to be able to say if Dalinar still has a strong enough Connection to Odium to be able to take up that Shard. Personally, my hunch is that it would be possible but it would be difficult and he’d be in conflict with the Shard’s Intent to the point that he’d be a poor Vessel.
The second thing we need more information on is what the Intent of a Shard like “War” would be. Would War’s Intent be to cause war and conflict? Or would it be broader and include all aspects of War, from the first swords drawn through the treaty writing at the end? I would imagine that, if indeed War does feature as the Bigger Bad of the back five, it’ll probably the former option rather than the latter. If that’s the case, I’d go back to the Connection issue and make the case that Dalinar would be a poor Vessel. I think, given his history and the fact that he is still willing to fight for his cause, there’s enough of a Connection to that Intent that he could hold the Shard, but I see him being about as useful with it as Sazed is with Harmony.
Taravangian, though, I feel would have no problem carrying that Shard. Everything we’ve seen from him is about sowing discord and starting wars so that he can sweep in and fill the power vacuum. I am definitely intrigued by the idea of Dalinar being the one to become War, especially the idea that other Shards may be subtly pushing him toward that as part of some larger gameplan, I just question his compatibility with that Intent compared to Taravangian (who also already holds a Shard and I doubt is particularly keen on just giving it up).
@lance and Carl.
To further your thoughts that the combined Shard of Odium and Honor will be War. War is after all the rhythm Raboniel called the combined rhythm/light of Honor and Odium. War has the hatred/violent nature of Odium. However, War needs an element of stateliness. War is more than chaos. It is an organized, systematic manner to defeat your enemy. When conducting a war, one needs a defined goal and a type of order to achieve it. An army is not an uncontrollable mob bent on killing. The army has a command structure that runs from the top all the way down to the lowest ranks. For an army to properly conduct a war, it must have this order to it. This is the stately element of of the combined Shard. When Jasnah is on the front lines, we see the ranks marching in unison. To do otherwise would invite an element of chaos that would defeat the battle plans. In a way, there is a type of honor to conducting war. Yet at its core, War inevitably requires the defeat of one’s enemy. Such a defeat is almost impossible without killing. This would be the shard if Dalinar is a warlord – the old Dalinar. A Dalinar influenced by the Thrill and not trying to adhere to the tenants of the Knights Radiant. (I see Dalinar as the holder of the Shard of War rather than Taravangian)
However, I prefer a different combined Shard. Order. I think the other side of the coin of war is order. You have the need for the military or police force to be present. If harnessed wrong, this can be the Hatred. Alternatively, this can be the Passion side of Rayse believing his Shard is more passion than pure hatred/odium. Yet you have the Honor element. The need to use this military might in a way to defend the populace. A means of protection. The current Dalinar is a man of honor (pun intended). His moral character is now such that he wants peace. He would see the power of the Knights Radiant and other coalition forces as a deterrent. Similar to the belief during the Cold War that a strong US military deployed throughout the world word serve as a deterrent against the military inclination of communism. Thus, the combined Shard is Order .
The theory of deterrentism during the Cold War pre-supposes that a country would decide to adhere to communism if the USSR, China or other communist countries externally influenced the country. The reality is that was not always the case. Communism, just like democracy, could grow internally in a country
An element of Books 6-10 could show the reader the strain of Dalinar fighting the combined Shard to be stay to the positive nature of Order. If Order were taken to far, it could result in an authoritarian tyranny whose goal is to conquer, rather than deter. Thus, change to War.
I hope the main bad guy in Books 6-10 is Ishar (although that does not preculde a new Big Bad for the entire Cosmere in Books 6-10 which is different than Ishar. The mad Ishar has the unfettered power of a Bondsmith (via his Honorblade), which is almost Shard-like without any of the restrictions that the Intent of a Shard has on the holder of the Shard. We know that Nightblood can damage, if not defeat, an Honorblade. Dalinar and the Knight Radiant’s would have to try to deal with Ishar intent on ruling the world. As a result of the terms of the contest, the Fused/Regals and other Singers will enter into a Cold War type truce with the forces of Honor. Yet some of them (Jasnah, Hoid and some other allies, including Ash and Taln) can fight Odium’s efforts to interfere in the other Cosmere systems.
Another reason why I think it makes more sense that Ishar is the big bad in Books 6-10 is that IIRC Brandon has said that Books 6-10 will develop the Heralds further as characters. We know that Ash and Taln are supposed to get their own flashbacks. A Herald as a main series antagonist will give more meaning to telling the story behind the Oathpact and developing the Heralds as characters. If the Heralds are the focus of Books 6-10, I think the prologues in Books 6-10 will be the formation of the Oathpact from different Heralds’ PoVs.
Thanks for reading my musings.
aka the musespren
@AndrewHB
***SPOILER WARNING FOR ALL COSMERE MATERIAL TO DATE***
I like your thoughts about Ishar being the big bad of the back five, at least as far as Roshar is concerned. I don’t know how the timeline is going to work in the overall Cosmere but based on the events in the unpublished sequel to Sixth of the Dusk we can assume there’s a war between space-faring Scadrians and Rosharans. Having a Shard of War/Order being the source of that would allow for a larger Cosmere-wide conflict; I think you’re right, though, that Roshar needs an antagonist of its own to occupy the back five if it’s going to continue to stand by itself as a series and not require readers to have read all of the other Cosmere books in order to keep up and understand everything, which is something BranSan said he wants to do. (How much that will actually be possible as we see increased interactions between worldhoppers, systems, and Shards going forward is up for debate, though I imagine The Lost Metal will give us a fair indication when it comes out.) Giving the role of Big Bad to an unchained Ishar would certainly allow Stormlight Archives to continue to be its own thing while still allowing for larger tie-ins with the Cosmere.
Regarding the combination of Odium and Honor, you make some interesting points in favor of Order as opposed to War being the resultant Shard. Thinking about it, though, I think there are a couple of things that make it unlikely. First and foremost is, as you mentioned, the fact that Raboniel specifically named the new rhythm the Rhythm of War. The Singers have been demonstrated to have an instinctual understanding of the Rhythms, and a unique rhythm appears to be a feature of each Investiture (we see this on Scadrial where even each individual metal has a unique pulse/rhythm as its burned). If a being who has a natural ability to understand rhythms calls it War, I would be inclined to go with that until we’re given evidence to the contrary. It’s absolutely within the realm of possibility for BranSan to give us a character’s interpretation of something and then later on have that character prove to have been incorrect or misunderstood something, but until we see something to indicate that I would count Raboniel as an expert witness on rhythms and take her word for it.
The other hesitation I have with Order is that it doesn’t seem, at least to me, to be the logical result of the two Shards being combined. Granted, there isn’t exactly an A plus B equals C kind of science to combining Shards, and “Harmony” is hardly what I’d have expected from the combination of the Intent of Ruin and the Intent of Preservation. I’d have expected the Discord mentioned in the Terris prophecies to be the result, but I think you’re correct that the Vessel has some influence over the Intent (I am pretty sure there’s also a WoB to that effect) and that’s why Sazed was able to make Harmony instead of Discord. I do think it’s worth noting, though, that the line between things being in harmony versus things being in discord is pretty fine, which may be why Sazed was able to affect the outcome as he did. Perhaps the finer the line between two different Intents, the more influence the Vessel can have over which Intent is dominant?
My hesitation is less with Order being something resulting from Honor than it is something resulting from Odium. Whether you call it Odium or Passion, both are sort of inherently chaotic by nature. Hatred or passion, either one, are not what one would describe as orderly, organized, or similar adjectives. It’s easier for me to see a progression from hatred to War if combined with Honor. Odium loathes, it hates, it wants destroyed. Honor is not necessarily “good” or “bad”, it is more about rules of behavior, codes of conduct, etc. An honorable villain is sometimes the best kind of villain or the most interesting kind to read about. It follows to me, then, that combining loathing desire for destruction with rules and codes of conduct would lead to something like War. War is, as you said, about (usually) organized conflict, battle lines, chains of command, etc., but it is also about destroying your opponent, believing your cause is better than theirs and that their cause, whatever it is, is worth killing them over. To combine Honor and Odium and get Order seems to me to ignore too much of Odium. With Harmony, Ruin and Preservation are equally present which is why Sazed has such trouble taking action. It seems like both Shards would need their Intents equally present in the new shardic Intent. Granted, that’s only one data point but it’s also the only data point we have regarding two different Shards combining.
I think Order is a possibility for a new Shard, but I think it’d be more likely to be a combination of Honor and Cultivation. A Shard whose intent is growth and creation, specifically growth and creation with a specific purpose in mind (“cultivating” something sort of implies some sort of goal), combining with a Shard who is all about rules and codes of conduct feels like it combines much more smoothly into a Shard of Order – which, in retrospect, may be why Honor and Cultivation worked so well together, their relationship notwithstanding.
How about Dalinar forces the shard INCLUDING THE OATHS on to Toadium
Slight aside: another reason I think Taravangian won’t outlive Book Five: he’s an instinctive liar. He lies to everyone, constantly. Breaking your oath results in the Vessel’s destruction, as Rayse for one has explained to us.
@lance, I was just about to mention the Sixth Sequel excerpt Brandon has shared.
I don’t think anyone has mentioned how the revelations about rhythms and pure tones in this book intersect with the name of the new Shard, “Harmony.” Note also, you can look at the word harmony as being the musical version of the word unity.
@carl
I’m not certain about a Vessel lying resulting in its destruction. In Secret History we see Ruin posing as the mist spirit/Preservation a few times to deceive Vin and that didn’t kill him. What I think you’re getting at is that a Vessel breaking an Oath exposes it, which is dangerous. And while Taravangian is absolutely willing to lie, manipulate, and cheat to get what he wants I don’t see him being the sort to risk the Shard he just got by breaking an Oath; he acknowledges that he’s bound by the same rules Rayse agreed to for the Contest, for example. Don’t get me wrong; I’d love to see Taravangian utterly destroyed. I just think he’s too clever for it to be as easy as that. Plus I’m not sure I see BranSan leveling him up as a villain in such a major way just to off him right away (more’s the pity). I think you may be on to something, though, in that Cultivation is more than aware of Taravangian’s willingness to ignore the truth when convenient. She may be planning to make use of that to trick him into making an Oath that he then breaks, thus exposing him. I could see Cultivation’s long-term game being 1) Find some way to off Rayse, 2) Trick the new Vessel into breaking an oath and exposing themselves, 3) Kill new Vessel and shatter the exposed Shard.
@lance: Taravangian is too clever? You mean right this second, but if the Old Magic still binds him, that might not be true later ….
It’s really rich of T to talk about being the ‘bearer of agonies’ when he is not the one really suffering the consequences of any of these decisions.
I like the theory of Cultivation ‘infectiing’ Odium. Especially as it would be another foreshadowing, perhaps, of the shards combining.
I’m not so sure I love the idea of Moash ‘redeeming’ himself by destroying himself in self-hatred, even if it would be very poetic/karmic given his character progression – It’s a concept I would find triggering as I often feel I am a blight on the world and killing myself would be a virtuous act, and so I just don’t really want to see that as the climax/culmination of a redemption arc even if that wouldn’t be the intent.
@30 Lisamarie
I recently stumbled across a quote from Brandon that, I think, will be the basis for Moash being redeemed.
For context, this was in his explanation of why he made the changes to the end of Words of Radiance, but I feel it really fits Moash, who is broken in so many ways. He will be healed when stabbed by Syl and start on a true path of redemption.
I am honestly interested how Moash will be handled in the long run – a lot of my belief system (as well as the themes I think Brandon is working with here) is predicate on the idea that anybody CAN be redeemed; nobody is so broken they can’t be healed, or could decide to take the first step down the next path (and as I said – that does not preclude atonement or the fact that some past actions can’t just be ‘made up for’) but it doesn’t mean everybody will be or will choose to. (Although I have to admit I have some universalist tendencies and would like to think eventually everybody would, but that is maybe wishful thinking).
But I also wonder if Moash will function as a kind of Gollum character where, pitiable as his circumstances are, and maybe he will even have some crucial part to play, it won’t be because he willed the good.
@RogerPavell: I believe the comment about living Shardblades healing refers to the healing power Radiants have, not to soul-healing via stabbing.
@33 Carl
Except not all Radiants can heal others, and the comment was in relation to Kaladin(windrunner) and Szeth(future tiebreaker), neither of which has healing outside using stormlight on themselves.
What was the context? Because I read it as being about Radiants healing themselves.
@carl, @RogerPavelle –
I looked it up and here is the entire WoB RogerPavelle was quoting as well as a follow-up question that was asked:
Original Quote
Follow-up Question
Given the date of those posts and the particular scene in question, I think there are a couple of possibilities for what the bit @RogerPavelle quoted is referring to. The first, and the one I think is most likely, is that since at this point in the series we’d only just barely learned that most Shardblades are “dead” spren and Radiant Shardblades are living spren, I think Brandon was alluding to it being an important point in the series that living Shardblades (i.e. spren with an active bond to a Knight Radiant) could heal the soul – think of Kaladin healing his arm after it was cut by Szeth’s blade during their first encounter – while dead Shardblades (“dead” spren left behind after the Recreance) cannot.
Brandon has also talked about how Radiant Healing, at least with regard to themselves, heals the body based on their Spiritual ideal and that’s why Bridge 4 was able to heal their slave brands, Lopen was able to regrow his arm and Gaz his eye, etc. It’s also why Kaladin kept his slave brands for so long; he still saw himself as a slave and his scars didn’t heal until he stopped seeing that as part of his identity. The Surge of Progression, on the other hand, only heals to the person’s Cognitive ideal, which is why wounds that have existed long enough to become part of how someone thinks of themselves (like Rysn and her paralysis) can’t be healed.
The only other possibility for the “important plot point” Brandon was referring to that I can think of with regard to the scene he’s discussing is that we eventually learn that Nale is both a Herald and has a Radiant bond with a spren, but that doesn’t seem as strong a possibility to me. I think Brandon was just referring to living, bonded spren Shardblades granting access to Surges and the ability to use Stormlight to heal while dead blades don’t.