When Die Hard came out in the summer of 1988, nobody had particularly high expectations for it. Just another summer blow-’em-up, whose lead was a smirky TV star best known for his quips on Moonlighting, seemingly miscast as an action hero.
It became not just a hit movie, but also a trope. Tons of TV shows and movies have riffed on it, or at least used it as a logline (“It’s Die Hard, but on a train!” and so on). Star Trek has done Die Hard riffs before (TNG’s “Starship Mine,” Voyager’s “Macrocosm“), and now Discovery takes its turn as Burnham, Book, and the bridge crew work to take the ship back from Osyraa.
There’s a lot to like about “There is a Tide…” only some of which involves the Die Hard riff. But what’s great about the action-movie parts of the episode is that there is very little of the stupid plot tricks that tend to mar such plotlines. It starts with Osyraa not going right away into Starfleet HQ, but (a) having a plan and (b) not being able to implement that plan until her crew has the hang of running the ship.
That’s right, strangers take over the ship and don’t know how to operate it all right away. (Yes, Kazons in Voyager’s “Basics” two-parter, I’m looking at you.) This would be expected anyhow given the fragmented nature of the galaxy and the secretive nature of 32nd-century Starfleet, exacerbated in this case by Discovery being a kitbash of 23rd- and 32nd-century tech.
Buy the Book
A History of What Comes Next
Once they do have full control of the ship, there’s just one bit of the computer they can’t seem to deal with—it appears to be a bunch of old movies. This will probably be important later…
The slow takeover of ship’s systems also conveniently provides enough time for Book and Burnham to get to Starfleet HQ via normal warp drive. Of course, by the time they arrive, Osyraa’s plan is 90% in place: have her ship, the Veridian, fire on Discovery as they’re approaching Starfleet HQ, so Admiral Vance will let them in without fuss because they’re under fire. It almost works, too, except at the last minute, Book’s ship shows up and crashes into Discovery’s shuttle bay. This is enough to make Vance suspicious, and while it’s too late for him to close the door on Discovery, he does surround the ship with a small fleet with phasers all pointed at it.
Which leads to the absolute best parts of the episode, which involve none of the main cast, but which is some of the best-written stuff we’ve seen on Discovery: Osyraa’s negotiations with Vance.
I was really worried that Vance was going to fall into the tired Trek stereotype of the Evil Admiral. The niftiness of the only other admiral we’ve seen for more than half a second on the show—Jayne Brook’s excellent Admiral Cornwell—ameliorated this concern somewhat, but still.
So it’s been a joy to see that Oded Fehr’s Vance is a well-rounded, intelligent character who isn’t just there to be an obstruction. And he absolutely hits it out of the park when he and Janet Kidder’s Osyraa sit down to negotiate. It’s to Kidder’s credit that she holds her own with an actor of Fehr’s calibre, continuing the good work she started last week, after a bad first impression in “The Sanctuary.”
It helps that they both have good material to work with: Kenneth Lin’s script is superb, giving us one of the best two-parties-negotiating scenes in Trek history. Osyraa surprises everyone (including the viewers) by coming to the Federation with a proposal: the Emerald Chain and the Federation becoming partners and allies.
On the face of it, it makes sense from Osyraa’s perspective. As Ryn informed Discovery’s crew, the Chain’s supply of dilithium is critically low, and that’s the main source of her stranglehold on her territory and people. But she also has a lot of territory, a lot of people, and, as we learn this week, an impressive cadre of scientists. (More on that in a bit.)
Vance is understandably skeptical, especially since the only reason Osyraa is talking to Vance instead of being atomized dust from all the ships surrounding Discovery is because she has the bridge crew hostage. (She let the rest of the crew go as a goodwill gesture to Vance.) He is impressed, however, with her detailed plan for the alliance.
And then negotiations break down, because Vance hits her with a stipulation she obviously wasn’t expecting and won’t go through with. Osyraa’s own history as an antagonistic force to, y’know, everyone means she can’t be the head of the new allied-with-the-Federation Emerald Chain. While she’s willing to step back, she’s not willing to commit to a ruler who isn’t her puppet (she claims to be, mind you, but Eli, the lie-detector hologram played with hilarious blandness by Brendan Beiser, calls her on it), nor is she willing to be arrested and tried for her crimes. Vance insists on that point, because Federation ideals still mean something, and they’re not just going to get into bed with a criminal who claims to have reformed unless she puts her money where her mouth is with regard to that reformation.
These sequences are quick-witted, intelligent, and compellingly played by Fehr, Kidder, and Beiser. From the negotiations themselves to the discussions of Eli (putting a human face on the lie detector was more comforting than red and green lights) and of the food (how it’s pretty much recycled shit), and they’re just as captivating as the action sequences aboard Discovery.
Which, it must be said, are pretty damn captivating. Once again, Discovery neatly avoids the usual stupid writer tricks, this time the one of people in holding cells not having any kind of guards or surveillance on them, thus enabling them to plan and mount escapes without the bad guys realizing it until it’s too late. (Yes, I’m looking at you “The Enterprise Incident” and “Unification II” and “One Little Ship” and every fourth episode of Stargate SG-1 and on and on and on.) The bridge crew has Osyraa’s Regulators right there in the ready room with them guarding their every move and keeping them from talking. Luckily, Starfleet Academy (at least in the 23rd century) trains you in Morse Code, and the gang is able mount an escape by finger-tapping, and it’s a beautiful thing.
Those Regulators of Osyraa’s, by the way, are led by an old friend, as Jake Weber returns as Zareh, having survived his frozen adventure at the end of “Far from Home” (and with a nasty case of frostbite for his trouble), and who’s more than happy to have Tilly and the rest under his thumb.
Burnham, meanwhile, is crawling through the Jefferies Tubes while wearing a lifesign-masker, but she makes the mistake of taking the comms device of one of the Regulators, thus allowing Zareh to find her. (That Regulator also stabbed her, so she’s bleeding from a thigh wound.) But she manages to blow the Regulator who comes after her out an airlock—however, the Regulator in question grabs Burnham’s feet. Burnham saves herself by kicking off her boots.
So now she’s crawling around the duct work, she’s barefoot, she’s bleeding, and in case we weren’t making it obvious that we’re riffing Die Hard enough, Burnham gets on the comms and says, “Hey Zareh, you’re gonna need more Regulators.” Sigh.
That bit of self-indulgence aside, the retaking of Discovery is fun to watch. Jonathan Frakes directs Lin’s script very nicely, intercutting effortlessly between the action sequences and the scenes of people in a room talking. Besides the Vance-Osyraa scenes in the latter category, we also have the Stamets scenes, where he talks with Osyraa’s chief scientist, the chair-bound paraplegic Aurellio. First off, those scenes are both heartening and heartbreaking, as Aurellio is played by Kenneth Mitchell. Having played three different Klingons on Discovery (and also done several voices for Lower Decks), Mitchell was diagnosed with ALS in 2018 and is now wheelchair-bound himself, and I think it’s great that Secret Hideout has continued to employ him, and in a role that he can play despite his sadly deteriorating physical state. Mitchell is also fantastic, both in his rabid scientific curiosity and nerding out with Stamets, and also in his obvious hero-worship of Osyraa, though he is willfully ignorant of her nastier side. That ignorance becomes harder to maintain by the end of the episode, and is likely to be a factor in the next one.
Stamets also gets a brilliantly nasty scene with Burnham, as she rescues him only to shoot him off in an escape pod to Starfleet HQ so that Osyraa doesn’t have access to him and therefore the spore drive. The problem is that Stamets wants to use the spore drive right now this minute (even though they don’t have control of the ship yet) to go back to the Verubin Nebula to rescue Culber, Saru, and Adira. Stamets’s desire is understandable—this is the man he loves, his surrogate child (he even answers in the affirmative when Aurellio asks if he has kids, referring to Adira), and his captain—but Burnham’s actions are absolutely the right ones under the circumstances. Discovery is still in enemy hands, and Stamets is too valuable to leave in Osyraa’s hands. That doesn’t stop Stamets from trying to guilt Burnham by saying that they all jumped to the future for her so that she wouldn’t be alone.
(Speaking of that, we don’t ever get back to the nebula in this episode, so there’s no indication of how Saru, Culber, and Adira are doing with Su’Kal. I’m always sad when there’s an episode that doesn’t include Doug Jones’ Saru, but there’s plenty enough going on here as it is, and presumably we’ll check back in on them next week.)
The bridge crew also gets to shine, mostly in their prison-break scene, and then there’s the very last scene: Tilly, Detmer, Owosekun, Bryce, Rhys, and Ina break into the armory and gear up to take back the bridge, only to find themselves joined by a bunch of the DOT-23s—into which the Sphere Data has downloaded itself. In the same voice that the Sphere Data has used before, and which was the voice of Discovery’s computer in “Calypso,” provided in all cases by Annabelle Wallis, the last line of the episode is, “Shall we take back the ship?”
I said last week that they looked to be ending the calendar year with a bang, and I was definitely right. This is a thrill-ride of an episode with clever writing, superb direction, and great acting. However, that bang isn’t done yet. Presumably next week, which is the end of the entire season, we’ll finish the taking back of the ship, and perhaps rescue the poor radiation-wracked away team that includes the captain, maybe?
Keith R.A. DeCandido is very glad to see the back of 2020 and wishes everyone a safe and happy and healthy 2021.
It wasn’t until after this post was written and scheduled that I realized that this is the 800th installment of Star Trek, which is a very fitting way to end the calendar year. That’s 80 episodes of the original series, 22 of the animated series, 176 of TNG, 173 of DS9, 168 of Voyager, 97 of Enterprise, 41 of Discovery, 10 each of Short Treks, Picard, and Lower Decks, and 13 feature films.
Happy new year, everyone. And here’s to a wonderful 2021 and to 800 more Trek installments.
—Keith R.A. DeCandido
RE: Book and Burnham hurrying to Starfleet HQ. I thought they tried a Transwarp Tunnel, like Osyraa did last episode. Especially given how quick and dangerous the trip was.
Overall, I loved this episode. I was enthralled from beginning to end, and the finale can’t get here fast enough
Yes, Book and Burnham used the “courier network,” aka a transwarp conduit, rather than warp drive to get back to Starfleet HQ in time to matter, but beyond that, your review is spot on, Keith.
I recognized Kenneth Mitchell from “Jericho” (a wonderful and little-remembered 1 1/2 season series that resonates all the more these days), but had not heard about his ALS; I share your kudos for DISCO’s team in casting him in a role that allows him to act (so well!) while seated.
As for cast members missing screen time this episode, forget about Saru; I WANT MORE GRUDGE! :)
HAPPY 800TH INSTALLMENT, STAR TREK! {Jonathan}
“enough time for Book and Burnham to get to Starfleet HQ via normal warp drive.”
I don’t think that’s the case. They’re hurtling through what looks like some kind of transwarp or slipstream conduit cluttered with shipwrecks. and Book says something about “This is why even couriers are afraid to use the courier network.” And there was mention last week of the Viridian reaching the nebula through a transwarp conduit deemed insanely dangerous to use. It’s definitely supposed to be only a matter of hours after they left the nebula in “Su’Kal,” since Stamets still thinks there’s time to save Saru, Hugh, and Adira.
I agree that the stuff with Vance and Osyraa is fantastic. It’s very rich character-building for a villain who’s been one-dimensional up to now, and I only wish we’d seen some pipe laid for this earlier on. And it’s smart writing, too. It’s logical that powers on both sides of the ideological spectrum would recognize the value of compromise and alliance in such hard times. But what ultimately marks Osyraa as the villain is her ego. She can accept every compromise for the greater good, except sacrificing her own personal power and freedom. In the end, she values herself over the rest of the galaxy.
The final bit with Burnham and Stamets was powerful too. Major guilt trip there.
I didn’t much care about the Die Hard stuff. I never like it when Trek goes there. For one thing, I find it utterly ridiculous that the fire suppression protocol in the Jefferies tubes is to vent the tubes to space. That’s dumb. There are ways to evacuate a compartment of air while still keeping the air inside the ship instead of wasting it and whatever loose objects get blown out. Heck, the Enterprise-D had fire suppression forcefields (“Up the Long Ladder”), and Discovery has been upgraded 800 years beyond that.
Not to mention that it was an unnecessarily Rube-Goldbergian way to solve the problem. Use a phaser to burn out a fire sensor so the vent will open and the enemy will get sucked out into space? Why not just shoot the enemy with the goldarn phaser???
And I’m not sure about the ending. The cliffhanger is that the escaping crew is being assisted by a trio of cute robots? Did the Die Hard riff suddenly modulate into Batteries Not Included?
Okay, I think this is my new favorite episode of Discover. Haha. I was enthralled and captivated from beginning to end. Yes, I was wondering what was going on with Saru and gang back in the nebula but there was enough taking place here with everyone else that the former could wait for another week. I was surprised by how smart and dramatic the Osyraa/Vance negotiation scenes ended up being. What she was proposing had real merit. Basically I was caught totally surprised by the depth of character she finally achieved, not just being a mustache-twirling villain but having a legitimate endgame that could end up benefiting people on both sides. We see her compassionate side when we meet her scientist friend. But ultimately, it looks like her ruthless side wins out. The whole thing between her and Aurelio reminded me of a similar dynamic on The Walking Dead back when I watched that show: specifically, the evil Governor character and his loyal head scientist guy who ultimately turns on the former when the latter develops a conscience and can’t let any more innocent people be hurt. We see this realization happen to Aurelio in this episode so I think he turns on Osyraa in the season finale. Aurelio was an interesting character himself and I was wondering why he looked so familiar so it makes sense when reading this review how it’s actually Kenneth Mitchell. And I had totally forgotten about his ALS diagnosis so how awesome is it that the producers are keeping him employed as another new character and integrating his real-life condition into his character? It’ll be great to see how the sphere data bots assist the crew in taking back the ship. All of the action scenes were great too. It was definitely Burnham kicking ass hour. Hopefully Stamets forgives Michael once he gets his proper perspective back. Well, can’t wait for the finale and it seems like it’s going to need to be a double length episode to tie up all of the various story threads! I doubt that happens though and we’re being set up for a cliffhanger. Oh, and RIP Ren. His dying was a very likely possibility but he went out a hero at least.
@4/CLB: I vaguely remember Batteries Not Included but the Discovery repair bots remind me of the much more recent Wall-E from, uh, Wall-E, so that could be what the writers are alluding to as well.
I just noticed that the title capitalizes “Is A,” at least in the sources I can find. That’s pretty unusual. Small words like that are generally uncapitalized in titles. (Incidentally, the title was previously reported as “The Good of the People.”)
@6/garreth: Yeah, but I was going for ’80s movie references to go along with Die Hard. I considered Short Circuit too, but Johnny Five didn’t hover and there was only one of him.
Has anyone attached any significance to the fact that the three DOT-23s had different colored eyes: red, blue, and yellow? That matches the traditional three colors of the service uniforms, but those haven’t been used on Discovery. It’s probably just to tell them apart, but I wondered if there was something more to it.
When I saw the three Dot-23s I immediately thought of Huey, Dewey and Louie from Silent Running
@9/boydo: And Huey, Dewey, and Louie are named after Disney characters who dress in red, blue, and green. It all fits! (Mostly.)
So does that mean Tilly is Webby? Book would be Launchpad, then.
If Burnham had found a dead end in the Jeffries tube, that might have worked (although there’s also five enemies after her, not just one, so the numbers would still give them a decent chance). Otherwise, I don’t see how she could have covered both possible approaches at the same time – too easy for two of them to flank her, she’d only be able to shoot one of them before they shot her.
@11/Andrew: That doesn’t work, though. It was a narrow tube, so if anyone behind her had been sucked out into space, they would’ve collided with her and knocked her out into space too. The setup of her plan depended on the bad guy being between her and the hatch. Not to mention that the bad guy did get close enough to grab Burnham’s boots. I think they were supposed to take her alive.
Though it’s unlikely that the volume of air inside a Jefferies tube would actually be great enough to blow an object the mass of a human body down dozens of meters of tubing and out into space. Most fiction greatly exaggerates the “sucked into space” effect. In reality, it takes a hell of a lot of air to actually lift someone bodily and send them flying. The Expanse got this right. When a corrupt spaceship crew jettisoned some refugees out an airlock in season 1, they didn’t get sucked out; they just floated in the evacuated airlock and the ship had to fire its thrusters to move past them and leave them in space. The total mass of air in the lock was much less than the mass of the refugees, so it hardly accelerated them at all.
(By far the dumbest example of the trope I’ve seen, by contrast, was in the Ron Moore pilot movie Virtuality. There was a scene in a closet-sized airlock where the guy trying to avoid being sucked out was barraged by hurricane-force winds for over a minute. WHERE WAS THE AIR COMING FROM?????)
I loved watching the bridge crew break themselves out of holding! It turns out the Mirror universe versions aren’t the only ones who can fight; the Prime universe versions just prefer not to. :-)
I was laughing so hard at the robots saying “Shall we retake the ship?” that I missed the gesture they were making, but luckily my husband was watching more closely. He said, “Wait are the robots making the Vulcan salute?!” Not just for Vulcans anymore. :-)
So, do we believe the lie detector AI? I find it hard to believe that Osyraa really wanted to join the Federation and was willing to outlaw slavery and make all sorts of other concessions.
I didn’t think Frakes was all that great as an actor, but man, the guy sure can DIRECT! So good!
@13/Corylea: I believe Osyraa was telling the truth to the lie detector holo because it served to make her character more of a shades of grey type of person and not just a one-dimensional villain. That was also the point of showing the audience her friendship with Aurelius: that she could be a compassionate and friendly person too. The holo was doing its job too because as soon as it detected her lies, the negotiations were over and she knew the jig was up. While she would have preferred not to take things by force and come across as some kind of savior, her hubris is proving to be her undoing. She did and ultimately will revert to violence to get what she wants.
I also like how the writers subverted the audiences expectations about how a female Orion is supposed to act and behave. All prior Star Trek incarnations showed Orion females using their sexuality and showing copious amounts of skin and curves to get what they want (and titillate the audience). Not so with Osyraa. There’s no T&A on display nor tight catsuits nor erotic belly dances. She’s straight up using her intellect and cunning and that is refreshing for a female adversary.
@13/ ChristopherLBennett While Tilly could be Webby, Duck Tales comes from a later generation that Silent Running. I want to see someone teach the Dot – 23s to play poker…
I’ve been waiting for the DOT-23s to play a more prominent role all season. I figured there had to be a reason that they got screen time being reconfigured as part of the opening credits, which in prior seasons have shown elements that proved important in retrospect.
Great episode, thought it was out of no where though Osyraa genuinely wanted peace, and also thought it was a bit silly that Vance broke it unless Osyraa was willing to go on trial. That is like us joining forces with Russia to defeat a common enemy like ISIS and , saying we will on join forces with you if Putin puts himself on trial for every wrong that he has done. Just didnt buy it. I enjoyed it otherwise, but notwithstanding some shelving of disbeliefs
Great connection on Huey, Dewey and Louie from Silent Running
When they showed up, I was kind of expecting Aurellio, betraying Osyraa to join the forces of good but I guess we will see that next week. Gray will be back as a Vulcan (or possibly Romulan) based on the promo.
Random questions: are Dot 23s related to ExoComps or are they completely different?
I also thought Vance was being too rigid. Osyraa was offering serious substantive concessions to Federation ideals like ending slavery and withdrawing from prewarp civilizations. That could make a concrete difference to millions or more real sapient. The Federation has, at need, made alliances and agreements with worse powers when it was in better shape. If the relationship Osyraa proposed was too close and was felt to risk Federation identity in a way that allying with the Klingons or Romulans, or cooperating with the Cardassians against the Maquis didn’t, at least make some sort of counteroffer. One that doesn’t require the enemy leader to submit herself to Federation justice without even losing a war.
Osyraa isn’t trustworthy generally, but the lie detector reduced that objection. (I’d say they’ll regret introducing that tech, but I imagine that it will shortly prove to be possible to shield against it as often as Troi’s empathy.) Given that, I’d have liked to see this as an intentional sign that Federation ideals had ossfied out of practicality. (Not irreparably, but maybe Vance needs a reminder from the past that the Federation considered interstellar peace one of its ideals too.) But it seemed clear that the show was portraying him as making the right decision, and I’m not sure he is.
But maybe the Chain’s dilithium shortage is so acute that the Feds will get those concessions without signing the agreement, and the new dilithium on the horizon will let its writ run back to the old borders without compromise. (Though Vance doesn’t know that yet, does he?) And there’s something to be said for not negotiating with hostage takers. Still, the scene should at least have been played as Vance rejecting the overture, rather than apparently sincerely asking Osyraa to submit to a trial she can’t consider legitimate.
The negotiation scene is a classic. I only wish Osyraa had countered the Admiral’s call for prosecution with a request for a General Amnesty.
The negotiation scene I thought was reasonable. Osyraa has committed major war crimes and the Federation does not tolerate such things. In DS9 they agreed to a general amnesty for the Dominion troops and to end the war, but the Female Changeling had to stand trial (they’d have probably insisted on the same for Dukat, Damar, Weyoun and the Cardassian guy who replaced Damar, but obviously those were taken off the table). It’s not entirely clear why they didn’t insist on Thot Pran also standing trial though.
The Chain and Federation are also engaged in, if not all-out war, then certainly in persistant, ongoing hostilities.
@13/Corylea: I think the lie-detector holo was intended by the writers to be accurate, but I find the premise implausible. Even if we assume super-advanced future technology for veracity assessment that’s genuinely reliable (and TOS did establish that precedent, though the TNG-era shows ignored it), she’s an Orion woman. Seduction is their area of expertise, and there are other forms of seduction than sex. It would make sense to me if she was able to fake sincerity well enough to get past Federation verifier scans.
“I find it hard to believe that Osyraa really wanted to join the Federation and was willing to outlaw slavery and make all sorts of other concessions.”
I can believe it. It’s what a smart leader would do in her circumstances — make changes for the sake of her culture’s survival. The one thing she couldn’t accept was losing her own power.
@17 & 18: Maybe Vance was a little too rigid, but on the other hand, after previous seasons showed Starfleet Command and Section 31 being willing to bend Federation principles in the name of the supposed “greater good” only to have their moral compromises endanger the Federation, I find it refreshing to see a Starfleet authority figure standing by Federation principles unrelentingly.
@14/Garreth — A few episodes ago, we saw her murder her own nephew for the “crime” of being not terribly competent. She has been set up as capital-e Evil during the whole season, and now suddenly she has nuances? It didn’t work for me.
@21/Christopher L Bennett — Since the technology can’t read minds, it has to work by detecting the physiological changes that usually accompany lying. (The TOS tech explicitly said, “Subject relaying accurate account; no physiological changes.”) But those changes depend on the person’s having been taught that lying is wrong and on their not being able to suppress their own reactions to lying. Given who Osyraa is, I think it’s quite possible that she was never even taught that lying was wrong, and even if she was, she’s likely to have learned how to suppress that reaction. So I don’t actually believe that Eli CAN tell whether or not she’s lying. I guess we’ll find out if she was next week. :-)
@22 – TOS had mind reading technology. Not just the verifier scans but also the universal translator. Now give it a thousand years of technological advancement and there’s no reason to believe that Eli is incapable of reading minds and determining truth or lie.
COCHRANE: What’s the theory behind this device?
KIRK: There are certain universal ideas and concepts common to all intelligent life. This device instantaneously compares the frequency of brainwave patterns, selects those ideas and concepts it recognises, and then provides the necessary grammar.
SPOCK: Then it translates its findings into English.
I have never been a fan of Disco, but this episode was great. The negotiation scenes were extremely well written (and I totally buy that an admiral who has lost people fighting against the EC can be rigid in his request of a trial for the enemy leader, he was not a political negotiator) and the fighting scenes were splendid, with a lot of tactical sense (Frakes is always good).
An episode that I think will become a classic. I hope the season finale turns out just as good, and capable of redeeming all of the season
RE: expecting Aurellio, betraying Osyraa to join the forces of good
Yes, but I wonder . . . why is it we haven’t suspected that Osyraa could be the mother of his child?
@25: Oh nice theory, but she treated him more like a friend than a lover. Also, I got a gay vibe from Aurelio. I could be way off but then he also said he had a “partner” as opposed to “wife” or “girlfriend.”
I think the lie detector was meant to be taken at face value because that’s the way the story appears to be structured. There are all sorts of ways of signaling red flags to the viewer, from private comments by Osyraa to specifics about the device that point to a loophole to an unrelated scene about how Orion culture embodies George Costanza’s “it’s not a lie if you believe it”.
It would also seem more likely if Vance had taken the deal, since that would lay groundwork for a sudden but inevitable betrayal.
The same tech may be subverted later, but right now it feels like something intended to “just work” for story purposes. so that questions of Osyraa’s sincerity can be put aside and the only issue is whether her offer is acceptable or not.
@23: They clarified in DS9 (in Little Green Men) that the Universal Translator is a brain implant which directly interfaces with the brain of one person and translates incoming speech (it’s bit vaguer on how it translates the speech back to someone else without a universal translator, but you have to kind of roll with that one), which also handily explains how they lip-synch (the UT adjusts your visual perception to remove the mismatch, which would be distracting) and how the UT keeps working when tricorders, communicators and other equipment has been removed or is nonfunctional. I also assume there’s a mental command you can use to temporarily switch it off, explaining how the characters occasionally speak in another language like Klingonese or French for emphasis.
Statistical Probabilities also has that great moment when they switch off the Universal Translator matrix from a recording of a meeting with Dominion representatives, allowing them to spot curious gramma choices by Weyoun in Vorta which indicate possible deception.
@28/Werthead: “Little Green Men” said nothing whatsoever about brain implants. It depicted the Ferengi’s translators as being inside their ear canals like hearing aids. Rom was able to repair their translators by sticking Nurse Garland’s hairpins in their ears, which means he was probably hitting some kind of reset switch, not performing brain surgery through the ear canal.
And the only answer Quark gave to General Denning’s “How does it work?” was “It’s simple if you know how.” Not a word about brain interfaces.
@25: I had the same thought. It would have been natural for the scientist to mention his partner’s name – but he didn’t, raising the possibility that Stamets would recognize the name.
@28 – They didn’t clarify, they ret-conned.
You couldn’t put a brain implant into the Companion or the Gorn, and yet the UT worked just fine for both of them. Sure, DS9s implants maye somply be smaller but they’d still work the same way, especially with a previously unknown language.
The UT is a technological mind reading machine. Spock did make some adjustments on order to have ot work on the Companion but how he knew what to do and how he did it with the limited materials on the shuttlecraft is an exercise best left to the viewer. Or, in the words of krad, “He’s just that awesome”.
@29: I took that as there was an interface in the auditory canal but the translator itself was located in the brain, otherwise the UT makes no sense whatsoever (and in that case they might as well be sticking small yellow fish in there).
This goes back to the point made when they were writing Sanctuary and had to have the Universal Translator not working on the Skrreeans and several people voiced the concern that they shouldn’t really be drawing attention to the UT because without it there is no show, but they needed to delay certain plot revelations in the episode and that was the only way of doing it. But the second you do that, you’re opening a whole can of worms that the fans will trip you up on (as with pretty much everything else).
@32/Werthead: You did not phrase it as your own interpretation. You claimed that the episode itself stated that, and that was blatantly untrue. It is grossly misleading to present your personal opinion as if it were the assertion of the episode. Kindly be more clear in the future.
@kkozoriz, Werthead: It seems to me that there are at least three distinct problems. First, assuming that the UT already knows the target language, how does it translate it for our heroes, when they’re not wearing any visible technology? Where is it located? Answer: In their ear. (Not in “Metamorphosis”; there Kirk was holding it in his hand.) Second, how does it translate their speech to the recipient? That’s never answered, but a device in their brain that accesses the language centre would be a cool explanation. In other words, perhaps they actually speak in the target language without ever having learned it or being consciously aware of its vocabulary and grammar!
Third problem, how does the UT acquire the target language in the first place? How does it know immediately how to break up an utterance in an alien language into words and morphemes, which meanings to assign to them, which grammatical rules to employ between them? It’s impossible to learn this simply from the flow of sounds. Answer: It has a slight telepathic component. Not enough to make the flow of sounds superfluous, but enough to make it intelligible. What Spock had to do in “Metamorphosis” was to expand this telepathic component so that it could translate for a being that sent out thoughts instead of sounds.
@35 – That’s pretty much it except Kirk & Spock explicitly say that the handheld UT does all of it, reading the brainwaves, translating to English and the speaking the results. Cochrane obviously doesn’t have an implant yet he not only hears the translation, he hears it as female.
Spock does make an adjustment but only to make it work on a lifeform such as the Companion.
KIRK: The universal translator on the shuttlecraft. We can try that, talk to that thing.
SPOCK: The translator is for use with more congruent life forms.
KIRK: Adjust it, change it. The trouble with immortality is it’s boring. Adjusting the translator will give you something to do.
Post TOS, there is a translator that fits in the ear (as seen in little green men) but that basic concept is still the same. Reading brainwaves, translating to English (of whatever language it’s set for) and providing gender.
COCHRANE: Captain, why did you build that translator with a feminine voice?
KIRK: We didn’t.
COCHRANE: But I heard
KIRK: The idea of male and female are universal constants, Cochrane. There’s no doubt about it. The Companion is female.
@36/kkozoriz: Hmm, come to think of it, if it’s telepathic perhaps it can access the wearer’s language centre from outside the brain, so they don’t need to wear an implant after all.
How about this: The larger translator from the shuttlecraft contains a microphone which Spock could adjust, whereas the smaller version worn by the characters does not. Perhaps that’s the real reason why they needed the large one for talking to the cloud creature.
The UT has to be telepathic as it has been used to translate for people that did not have one. For instance, the Voyager episode where they encounter Amelia Earhart and other cryogenically frozen 20th century people and the Japanese guy says he hears them speaking Japanese. Obviously he doesn’t have a UT himself, so the UT has to somehow manipulate the brains of the people in the area.
@38/Austin: “Obviously he doesn’t have a UT himself, so the UT has to somehow manipulate the brains of the people in the area.”
Not necessarily. I remember reading about a technology that can project sound with very narrow focus, so that you can only hear it if you’re standing in exactly the right spot. It was speculated that it could be used to target advertising at specific people walking through a mall or airport or something, or could be used in espionage to make someone think they were hearing voices, or something. It could also be used to project different language translations at different listeners.
Though presumably it would have to know each listener’s language, and that’s where the mind-reading has to come in. But I resist using the word “telepathy,” because that tends to be used to refer to psionic powers — also because “-pathy” means “feeling,” the experience of a conscious mind with qualia, so it doesn’t make sense to apply it to a machine’s operation. What “Metamorphosis” said was that translators read brain waves, i.e. that they read the brain’s electrical activity like a modern EEG, but at a distance and far more precisely. I’d call that neurotelemetry rather than telepathy.
@39 – Neurotelemetry sounds good to me. I don’t think the UT is manipulating sound, as that would leave the lip sync issue. And it has to do more than read brain waves; it also has to manipulate them in order for it to sound like that person’s particular language. So for Janeway to speak English toward the Japanese soldier, the UT would have to manipulate his brain in order for him to “hear” Japanese and to “see” the proper lip sync.
@40/Austin: The lip sync is a performance choice. We’re not seeing a documentary, we’re seeing a dramatization, and some things should be understood as artistic license — sound in space, visible weapon beams in vacuum, different characters played by the same actor, the same props and ship designs being recycled for unrelated civilizations, etc. Not everything is meant to be taken literally. This is theater.
I feel that the depiction of the translator in Star Trek Beyond, where we could see and hear the alien speaking in her own language underneath the computer translation, is the way it’s actually intended to work. (There have been numerous Trek novels over the decades that have described it working exactly that way.) Usually what we see is just simplified for convenience and clarity. See the trial scene in The Undiscovered Country, which made it explicit that seeing and hearing the actors speaking English was only a dramatic convenience when they were “actually” speaking Klingon with the translation coming through the device Kirk was holding (borrowing a technique from Judgment at Nuremberg, which William Shatner was also in). This is implicitly how it works all the time, and the beginning of that trial scene and the scenes in Beyond were the only times we’ve seen the underlying reality with the dramatic conceit stripped away.
Of course, this does leave the problem of episodes where the characters are using translators to pretend to be native speakers of an alien language, ENT: “Civilization” being the most explicit example. In those cases, I tend to assume that the landing party members are speaking softly or subvocalizing, and the translator is synchronizing the translated lines to their mouth movements, like a dubber of a foreign movie. Or maybe it actually scrambles the sound so people can speak normally but listeners won’t hear it under the translation.
@41 – I can buy that. Though Trek has been very inconsistent if that’s really the case. But Trek being inconsistent is nothing new. I think it would be cool if they did more episodes where something goes wrong with the UT and they have to adjust to the language barrier, even among the crew! I’m with you; I don’t think it’s ever been implied that the UT is a brain implant.
@42/Austin: Ultimately the UT is a plot device, not a real device, so it works however is convenient for the story and we’re not supposed to worry about it. The whole purpose of perfect translation in stories is so that we don’t have to think about the process of translation and can just get on with the story. It’s not supposed to be convincing, it’s just supposed to be a symbolic gesture so that we can shrug off the language issue and accept the dramatic conceit of the characters understanding one another.
I always thought the Universal Translator was in the Combadge, which makes sense both as a technology and a storytelling device. If you don’t want someone to understand you, take their combadge. Discovery also showed that the 23rd century communicator has a Universal Translator in it as she was translating Klingon speech on the Sarcophagus when they were trying to break the cloak. The Beyond example also makes sense.
I always took it that the Ferengi living on a foreign space station had the implant versions as a matter of convenience. Universal Translators have always been shown as audio transmissions of the translated speech all the way back to TOS. As a security measure it makes sense to me, I certainly wouldn’t want a piece of tech that is supposed to regularly receive transmissions to have access directly to my brain.
As for Federation Lie Detector technology which has existed since the mid 23rd century at least. I would hope that in seven centuries they’ve been able to modulate the thing to account for Orion cultural norms and customs, they were among the first species that Starfleet encountered and their criminal element displayed their capacity for duplicity and deceitfulness early on.
@18/mischiffe
I am reminded of the immortal words of Andrew Robinson, “You can’t get in bed with the Devil without having sex.” Let me say it again, You can’t get in bed with the Devil without getting f*cked. Osyraa wanted to be seen as the savior. That’s what this whole plan is. She’s an immensely powerful warlord, but she knows it. She knows she’s a criminal and she believes she has a much higher existence than that. She wants respect. She wants to save Galactic Civilization, but she also wants to get credit for it. She wants her crimes wiped away so she can have spent decades preying on and exploiting people and calling it honest commerce, and then retire to a moon to enjoy the spoils of her ill gotten gains and be seen as a great hero. Osyraa the Peacemaker, who united the Federation and the Emerald Chain and saved the Galaxy. And best of all, she wouldn’t have to give up anything herself. The Emerald Chain is almost out of dilithium, so giving up her fleet of warships is no loss, she’s gonna lose it anyway. The Orion Congress would be giving up slavery, with the Spore Drive reconnecting galactic civilization exploiting prewarp civilizations will quickly go out of vogue. In addition as the woman who finally made Orions respectable to the United Federation of Planets she would likely want for nothing in the new age. She would be seen as an honored Godmother of the Orion People. Osyraa would become the most popular name for Orion girls for centuries to come.
But being prosecuted? Being considered a criminal for the history books? That’s not the escape she wants. She knows she’s a criminal, she knows people hate her for her exploitation, she knows that people would be happy to see her in cuffs and behind a force field. More than anything, she wants to get off scot-free.That’s what the Stamets and Aurellio conversation is all about. She wants everyone in the Galaxy to see her as Aurellio does. But she knows unless she can erase her past, people will just see her as Paul does…something that annoys her to no end.
And of course, she doesn’t want to give up her power. She’s worked very hard to get it. It’s what keeps her safe, it’s what gives her comfort, it’s how she gets what she wants. And she’s not giving it up for anyone. That’s where the lie comes in. You’re not going to cut her out of her deal. Because she’s not doing it for anyone else. She’s not doing it to make the Galaxy a better place, or reestablish Galactic Civilization, she’s doing it to glorify Osyraa. What higher calling could there possibly be?
@44 All of that.
But I also think that a SLIGHTLY sharper operator could have gotten all that AND taken on a trial and finessed it in such a way to come out on top. And that also says something about Osyraa’s character.
@44/Mr. D: The idea of flip communicators having translators in them was first depicted in Enterprise. Discovery was just following that precedent.
I never interpreted the Ferengi ear-canal translators as “implants.” I mean, an implant would be something under the skin or bone, inaccessible short of surgery. Rom was able to reset their translators by sticking a hairpin in their ear canals, which proves it’ssomething more like a hearing aid or earwig radio — an insert, not an implant.
@44 I don’t think any of that is wrong about Osyra’s motivations. But I can also see, say, Benjamin Sisko looking at that on the one hand, and ending slavery and interference on a bunch of worlds, and saying, “I can live with that.”
It’s also true that the Chain’s dilithium shortage and the Federation’s upcoming surplus may make that unnecessary. But the latter is still uncertain – they don’t know they can get it without causing another Burn, and I’m not sure Vance has been briefed about the situation at all. And even if they get it, that’s a lot of worlds to free and defend militarily with a Starfleet that will be stretched thin rebuilding and negotiating reaccession (or failing to do so). How much is seeing justice done to Osyraa worth?
Maybe a lot. But sometimes there are war crimes trials, sometimes there’s just a truth and reconciliation commission without punishment. And sometimes the old tyrant gets to enjoy a plush undeserved retirement, because it’s worth some injustice to avoid the price of a last ditch fight.
I don’t want pure realism in Trek. The Federation works better when it errs on the side of its ideals, and I’ve been pleased that Discovery didn’t go all in on a darker and more cynical vision as I’d initially feared back when, e.g., Lorca was introduced. On the other hand, some of its best stories come from DS9, where occasional open eyed deals with the devil were a bit more common. And balancing ideals and necessity goes back to TOS.
For me, Osyraa’s proposal was one of the biggest surprises ever in Star Trek. I went from ‘are you joking?’ to ‘is it possible?’ to ‘this could actually make sense!” And the negotiation was excellently done.
Like others, I thought Vance asking for Osyraa to go on trial was a bit much. Given how she got there, she hasn’t had *that* much of a spiritual awakening. I’m not surprised she hadn’t even considered the question! (Had she, the obvious answer would be an ‘Osyraa clause’ in the treaty, granting immunity from prosecution, and maybe specified reparations and restrictions.) It would even show respect for Chain culture!
Aerellio’s partner? I also thought at first it might be Osyraa. But they explained the situation quickly enough.
As for the Universal Translator, it’s there because if aliens don’t breath air and speak English, you are putting a lot of special effects into something Star Trek is not about.
Couple of details:
Vance’s statement that he’s been authorized to negotiate on behalf of the President of the Federation seemed like a lampshade on the fact we’ve seen no civilian government so far. For all intents and purposes, Starfleet is the government.
During the negotiation scenes, Osyrra kept moving. She walked behind the holo, stood with her back to it. Did she think she was interfering with its detection capabilities? That it’s sensors were localized in the human looking field? It was tracking her with its eyes… Frakes mentioned in his Ready Room interview that they actually got a decent amount of time to rehearse that scene, so I’m guessing we’re seeing some actorly choices in play. It paid off.
I still dislike the choice and think it was a big mistake to make Janet Kidder wear a full face mask, hiding her natural expressions. Rendering her face immobile may be the true defense against a lie detector here.
@49/Sunspear: I did wonder if it would turn out that Osyraa actually was wearing a mask in-story, specifically to fool the lie detector. Although I can’t believe that 32nd-century lie detection is limited to reading facial expressions, rather than some deeper neurometric and biometric scan.
@46/ChrsitopherLBennett
The reason I feel implant over insert is simply because if it was a simple insert than taking it out to work on it would’ve been simpler than working on it IN Quark’s ear.
@47/Mschiffe
The real question is, is that a deal they have to make? If they don’t make the deal but they do get the Verubin dilithium, then the Federation is resurgent and they can simply begin enforcing interstellar law again and put the Emerald Chain out of business as a law enforcement action. Also Osyraa is making this deal on her time table, trying to force the Federation to give the Emerald Chain everything they want just before the Federation has a surge in power. The Discovery shifts the balance of power in the Galaxy by its very existence. I get why Osyraa wants to make the deal, but I don’t see the imperative for the Federation to make the deal because she says so. The nice thing about this is, that it actually seems to be a solid deal on paper. The caveat is, it’s not necessarily the best deal for the Federation. They would be legitimizing an interstellar mob to stop said mob from either starting a war or being a general nuisance as they lose their power. If Discovery hadn’t come along then yeah, he should take the deal, plus Osyraa wouldn’t be lording a hostage situation over him (at least not with a key strategic asset). But the Federation is on the cusp of turning the page here and Osyraa is basically trying to squeeze in.
It’s not just making the deal with the devil, but first is this the best deal for Team Federation?
As for Osyraa, I think even the truth and reconciliation thing would be too much for her. She’s definitely want the amnesty and pardon. She doesn’t want to give the Galaxy the satisfaction of her even admitting her crimes. Besides the point isn’t the trial, it’s the giving up power. She doesn’t want the Orion representative to be someone who’s not under her thumb.
@51: I think the Verubin dilithium is not a sure thing (and speaking meta-ly, I think the season ender is going to take it off the table). The Federation STILL has the upper hand, but it’s not a guaranteed win. And an alliance will cut out a lot of violence and death even with a new source of dilithium. It’s a proposal to take seriously.
@51/Mr. D: “The reason I feel implant over insert is simply because if it was a simple insert than taking it out to work on it would’ve been simpler than working on it IN Quark’s ear.”
Not if it was deep in the ear canal, close to the drum. It might normally require a special tool to insert and remove, one they didn’t have on hand.
But we are talking about something inside the ear canal that could be accessed and adjusted with a hairpin. There is no way in hell that that can be interpreted as a brain implant, which was the original suggestion.
“Besides the point isn’t the trial, it’s the giving up power. She doesn’t want the Orion representative to be someone who’s not under her thumb.”
Yes. People are saying that Vance was foolish for not taking the deal, but that presumes that Osyraa was acting in good faith. And her refusal to agree to Vance’s terms was the proof that she was not acting in good faith. If she really believed all she was saying about the greater good of everyone, then she’d be willing to set her self-interest aside and allow the Chain representative to be someone independent of her. Instead, it was clear that she’d only make the deal if the representative were her puppet, proving that her offer was hypocritical and that she couldn’t be trusted to deal in good faith. So Vance was right to push her on that point. It was the only way to expose that she wasn’t sincere, that she was double-dealing and the offer was a trap anyway.
If she had been sincere enough to agree to step down and face trial, that in itself would’ve been an important gesture of good faith, and in return Vance could’ve let her cut a deal of some kind. But she failed the test.
@53: Right. Vance had to throw out at least one bargaining point that would be tough for her to accept, to find out where her limits were. Then, they could negotiate. Otherwise, he’s letting her completely control the merger.
I liked this episode, but mostly for what happened between Osyra and Admiral Vance. I did not see a treaty negotiation coming, and that surprised me nicely. I also liked Vance standing his ground and insisting that Osyra be tried. Really well-written negotiation scenes, and great acting by all parties.
On the ship, poor Ryn, gone too soon (and David Ajala spoiled this on Twitter, grr). I liked the scenes between Aurelio and Stamets, not only was it nice to see Kenneth Mitchell again, but the character is interesting (with some nice world-building added for good measure), and I hope we see more of him.
All in all, good episode, very well balanced between the different threads, it felt like a lot happened. Let’s see what happens in the last episode, but I’d look forward to seeing the Federation and the Emerald Chain uniting, even if it will be a long, tortuous process. Especially because it will be that.
@10 – Chris: Detmer is Launchpad.
@13 – Corylea: The bots have only three fingers, so I wasn’t sure if they were making a Vulcan salute or the Devil’s horns. :)
@47 – mschiffe: I come from a country (Uruguay, and region, South America), where in recent memory there were dictatorships committing crimes against humanity. There were “pardons” forced or heavily influenced by those dictatorships as they ended and democracy returned. It has taken decades of slow, arduous work to get finally get justice and have some of these criminals stand trial… and in many cases, they still haven’t, and many people still don’t know what happened to their abducted, tortured, and murdered loved ones, or under what identity their stolen grandchildren are living. And those who have stood trial? All in posh prisons, or under house arrest due to their age.
So I can completely stand behind Admiral Vance on this. Tyrants, torturers, and genocidal criminals must face justice.
@49 – Sunspear: I don’t think we’re being lampshaded that there is no civilian government, or no strong one. More like they just want to use the actor and character we already know.
@49/Sunspear:
FWIW, we haven’t seen much of 32cen Starfleet, either: it’s usually just Vance, and rarely his aide. Starfleet HQ seemed busy only in its first episode (with humanoids, whereas there are always DOTs scurrying around), and its physical extent is just the one atrium. (E.g., no establishing shot of Starfleet and Federation campuses inside a space colony dome.) We haven’t seen Discovery in joint maneuvers with other starships; we haven’t seen starships operating beyond the Federation-in-Exile Bubble. (E.g., no image of the task force warping-out at Kaminar.)
I get the feeling (not a rigorous analysis) that the TNG era gave us more “what does this universe look like?” (planetary landscapes, alien cities, beauty shots of starships) than the DSC era, which is a weird shortcoming for a flagship-prestige show. Is traditional matte painting faster and cheaper than cinematic-HD CGI, or something?
There’s several bloggers and youtubers I follow who still don’t trust Vance. He started out as a possible Badmiral, then became a stern Dadmiral, but some are still suspicious. Guess that’s what a history of rogue admirals will do to viewer expectations.
#57/Sunspear: It’s logical that Vance turned out to be a good admiral instead of a bad one. After all, the threat this season is external to the Federation, and indeed is something that caused critical damage to the Federation. So the story needed the Federation to be the ideal worth fighting for, and thus the face of the Federation is a good guy.
A couple observations:
1: I found it interesting that this episode established a personal transporter buffer where you can hold item(s) (i.e. Michael’s phaser) but found it odd that it wouldn’t be standard issue to keep a dermal regenerator in there, would have helped with that stab wound.
2: I have an odd feeling that we might have a Hail Mary from the people from Ni’Var (potentially the more Romulan ones) with that good bye message Michael sent to her mother.
Mama Burnham with another Red Angel suit coming to save the day? Or maybe a few extra to take down to the durned Dilithium Scream planet. Just the basic model, of course, which they forgot can be made in a couple hours. No need for time crystals this time.
I don’t think it will be any time crystals or Red Angel suits but more just a fleet of Ni’Var ships being dispatched (which I’m wondering if Ni’Var (or perhaps Vulcan) left the Federation before or after they established the shielded base). I know it might be cliche but I wouldn’t mind seeing some of the Federation start to rebuild.
#59/navibc31:
FWIW, the “magical light-show storage of a weapon” has been shown several times (the guards at the Exchange where Book betrayed Michael, when M-Georgiou equipped herself before the Sphere-suggests-we-look-here mission), but only as VFX; the dialogue hasn’t called attention to it (unlike when Discovery’s crew was issued with their new omni-badges). So strictly speaking, we don’t know how they operate (“very well, thank you”).
(I am reminded of the 2006 vampire-action movie Ultraviolet, in which infinite handguns and ammo can be stored in folded space. Milla Jovovich walks through a security archway, which blithely reports: “Weapons scan: Many.”)
I agree that the writers are doing a poor job of worldbuilding vis-a-vis technologies. “Hero is stabbed, hobbles away, improvises a tourniquet” is an action-movie trope, which should’ve been negated by this milieu’s technologies: magically-stored medkit, or p-matter medical mini-droids, or a uniform with smart-fabric first-aid functions. Unless… maybe the daggers carried by Emerald Chain Regulators are designed to counteract such functionality, and I’m not sure how that could be depicted visually or in concise dialogue.
@59 – navibc31: Not transporter buffers, programmable matter (it’s in the wrist-thingy). But yeah, a basic medkit would help.
@62 – phillip: The weapons storage via programmable matter has been explained in behind the scenes videos on The Ready Room and posted in various ST social media. Plus, it can be extrapolated from all the use on-screen of programmable matter.
If you had a medkit or a smart fabric uniform that heals, then the regulator dagger wounds could be shown to be sizzling with green, acid-looking gunk. That’s visual clue enough for what you propose without having to say it out loud.
@61/navibc31
That was exactly my thought. Burnham proved she was willing to put Ni’var’s interests first at the forum, and with the data absolved Ni’var of responsibility of the Burn. While it may have caused some upheaval in Vulcan thinking, it was also the truth, and brings hope for the future. It is only logical that Ni’var once again render aid to the Federation. After all, whether they’ve left or not, we’re still family.
Some hybrid warbirds with the old Vulcan rings like the STO Multi Mission Explorer Warbirds would be spectacular to come to the rescue. If it’s something omitted from the preview, it is appreciated.
@63 – MaGnUs: I guess I was thinking back to my days of playing Star Trek: Elite Force on the PC that had the portable transporter buffer and was thinking they brought that to Discovery (as it looked similar / had a similar function) since special effects exists now that it can look convincing without too much trouble compared to 1999-2001.
@65/navibc31: If you’re talking about a device that can produce inanimate objects on demand, that’s not a portable transporter buffer so much as a portable replicator. Simpler just to store replicator patterns and raw material in latent form than expend the power to keep an active matter stream and transporter pattern in buffer suspension like Scotty in “Relics.”
Of course, neither a transporter buffer or a replicator should be able to work like a portable hole/hammerspace. Logically, either a buffer or a replicator’s matter store would need to be physically larger than the quantity of matter it contains. Especially a buffer, which is basically a small particle accelerator confining the matter stream in a powerful magnetic field. If you wanted to carry things in a form where they just disappeared when you weren’t using them, you’d need a subspace pocket or some controlled application of phase-shifting technology (as in “The Next Phase” or “Time’s Arrow”).
Although I think the 32nd-century programmable-matter phasers take the form of a bracelet around the wrist when not in phaser form, so the matter doesn’t vanish, it just compacts.
They’re bracelets, or more accurately, attachments to the uniform cuff. I recommend watching the BTS videos with the propmaster, they’re cool.
Okay, I found that prop video, and the cuff attachment holding the phaser is improbably tiny. You’d have to compress the programmable matter to a rather dense state to get it that small, though I suppose that’s possible. Or maybe it does have a subspace pocket inside.
The Vance-Osyraa’s negotation is kinda good, but suffers the absolute lack of worldbuilding on the Emrald Chain. Up to this point the show speaks of them like an intergalactic crime gang or a group of warlords, while in this episode they suddenly are a confederation of planets with a government and a Congress (so, are they more democratic than the Federation, where the military is basically all there is? Also, did they ever explain why Starfleet just packed and left Earth?). Shouldn’t a peace treaty between them be initiated by the presidents/elected bodies and not by someone sneaking around and taking hostages? (And who above 15 calls their treaty “Galactic Agreement”?)
@69/Olrad: “Also, did they ever explain why Starfleet just packed and left Earth?).”
Yes, in “People of Earth.” After the Burn, Earth came under frequent attack by raiders going after its dilithium reserves, so Starfleet moved HQ to its hidden pocket space bubble for security. Earth then seceded from the UFP and isolated itself, so presumably the Federation government had to leave and ended up becoming based in Starfleet HQ.
“Shouldn’t a peace treaty between them be initiated by the presidents/elected bodies and not by someone sneaking around and taking hostages?”
Peace treaties are negotiated between powers at war with each other, which means that both sides probably have prisoners of war from the other side as a matter of course. If treaties were only negotiated between people who were already being nice to each other, there’d be no need for treaties.
And look at it from Osyraa’s point of view. Before she could negotiate with the Federation’s leaders, she had to find them. And she expected to get captured if she went in without leverage. She even released most of the crew as a show of good faith.
“(And who above 15 calls their treaty “Galactic Agreement”?)”
First off, I doubt Orions are native speakers of English. Second, by the 32nd century, the Federation and its rival powers probably do operate on a galaxy-wide scale, so any agreement would have to apply galaxy-wide. Makes sense to me.
Interesting that they named one after Ursula Le Guin. And the forest ship is an Angelou Class vessel.
Maybe once the HQ forcefield goes down, they will become a “ragtag” fleet.
Added: another woman being honored, too: Wangari Maathai, 2004 Nobel Peace Prize Laureate.
Some more:
Ooh, I love the biosphere ship. I’d like to see a story set there.
The homages in the ship and class names are cool, but it bugs me that Starfleet is still so human-dominated, and that most of the names are in reference to 20th-century people.
I still don’t see the point of detached nacelles. I can see some components of a ship being physically separate and held in place by force fields for various reasons. For instance, in The Captain’s Oath I depicted alien ships covered in armor plates that they could suspend and rotate in a magnetic field around the ship as a defensive barrier, able to absorb damage from weapons fire and impacts without transmitting it to the ship. And a separated science module could be good for investigating hazardous items, keeping the bulk of the ship safe if they blew up or released a contagion or something (in contrast to Voyager where they routinely investigated hazardous, unknown objects just a few feet from the bloomin’ warp core). But the engines themselves? Those are too important and integral to the ship’s function, so you’d think they’d have to be contiguous.
Engineers from the past might think some of the things we do with our vehicles today are crazy. I think that these detached nacelles and other stuff are just to show that 32nd century technology is so far advanced beyond what we know, that these things look crazy to us.
As you say often, it’s not a documentary. Some things are there as shorthand to convey certain ideas.
@74/MaGnUs: “I think that these detached nacelles and other stuff are just to show that 32nd century technology is so far advanced beyond what we know, that these things look crazy to us.”
Yes, that goes without saying. But I don’t accept that that justifies doing something totally nonsensical. Every technology has to follow the same laws of physics and of functionality. Every attribute of modern technology that might seem bizarre to people from the past has a logical, sensible reason behind it; it’s not just random craziness. I prefer speculation that’s got at least some grounding in design logic. Matt Jefferies was brilliant at that when he designed the original Enterprise and other TOS ships. A lot of his design elements looked futuristic and mysterious, like engine nacelles with swirly lit-up domes and no rocket exhaust coming out the back, but the design still made a ton of sense on a basic structural and functional level. It wasn’t just random. Jefferies understood that future advances would work with everyday common-sense design logic, not negate it entirely.
“As you say often, it’s not a documentary. Some things are there as shorthand to convey certain ideas.”
Which I absolutely did not intend to mean “Nothing matters and you can just throw out common sense altogether.” It means there’s some wiggle room, but you have to earn it by including enough verisimilitude and credible worldbuilding to make it easy to suspend disbelief about the rest.
What people today have sadly forgotten is that part of the reason Star Trek became an enduring hit when almost everything else in American SFTV fizzled and flopped was that ST put more thought and care into establishing a believable world populated by believable characters. It had a lot of fanciful elements, but it grounded them with enough verisimilitude that we could buy into its world and care about it, more so than other shows that just threw all sense and logic to the wind.
YMMV, I don’t mind the floaty nacelles, I just don’t like how angular all the ships are.
STO will be incorporating many (most?) of these ships into the game later in the year, almost certainly making them expensive to get. I wonder how much the game’s ship design (if it works the other way) influenced these, particularly the Nog and the Jubayr, which echo Iconian ships. (The Iconian War story ended with them basically saying “Don’t bother us for about a thousand years.”) Thomas Marrone, Cryptic’s lead starship designer is excellent and very talented.
The Voyager-J, however, looks like it was designed by Future Apple, and I’ve never been an Applehead.
I like the details on The Annan (named after Kofi?), but the round design around an empty center kinda makes it look like a toilet seat.
@77/Sunspear: Or a bottle opener. Skol!
@Jana: you’re right! I like your idea better. As long as it’s good beer.
Confession time. I have never seen Die Hard. At least, I haven’t seen the whole thing. I once caught a scene on TV as a kid, and it happened to be the very scene where McClane gets his feet cut from the glass shards, and then I instantly tuned out to another channel. To me, I was all like: Bleeding foot? Screw this BS.
Of course, I’m well aware of the Die Hard phenomenon and how many films and shows try to market themselves as Die Hard with a stupid variation. I still own the TNG Companion book and can recall the Starship Mine comparisons.
But to me, the comparisons weren’t so on the nose. I pretty much cheered when Burnham called Zareh about his regulators. This was a fun episode, and a nice way to keep things moving as we approach the finale (I’ve yet to see it; I was offline for 10 days; please, no spoilers). Burnham got to see some sweet action, and I liked it that the crew got to contribute with their Morse Code shenanigans.
Somehow, I kept expecting Osyraa to be a facade for someone behind the scenes in the Emerald Chain. Someone more sinister and possibly with a stronger link to Burnham. But from the looks of her negotiations with Vance, it looks as if she’s the real deal. A tyrant who’s not quite willing to give up her power and prestige, even in an alliance that will benefit her organization. In an age of Trump, where everything has to revolve around him and his personality, it makes sense to come up with a villain this narcissistic. She’s not as memorable as Intendant Kira, but Kidder still gives her enough of an interesting personality and complexity that I admire.
And I adored the Burnham/Stamets confrontation. It’s a nice reminder that Stamets is still problematic, unable to let go of his hangups and attachments in service of a greater good, and it also keeps the show from sliding back towards the ‘everyone loves Michael without reservation’ trend that dominated the previous season. Leave it to Paul to guilt trip Michael, using her year-long separation, to get what he wants.
This is probably the best buildup to a finale Discovery’s made so far. It doesn’t feel cluttered like last season, and it doesn’t feel out of the blue like in season 1. It flows naturally, without losing the individual episodic pieces.
@krad: About that number. You’re counting TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT differently using the two hour events as individual episodes to stipulate 800 episodes (I usually count them separately, especially since you counted 80 in TOS, including The Cage and both parts of Menagerie, all separately).
But I can understand that two hour single story approach in the case of the pilot episodes and two hour finales (and The Way of the Warrior). But if my math is right, you’ve included Killing Game and Dark Frontier also in this case. But they’re technically separate episodes, to the point where they’ve assigned different directors in both cases (Livingston/Lobl on KG and Bole/Windell on DF). And you left out Flesh and Blood, which was also broadcast as a single event, even though it also employed different directors (Vejar/Livingston). Your number was 168. It should be either 167 or 170.
And in TNG’s case, the number 176 only works if we ignore TNG’s Chain of Command, which I believe was also all of it broadcast in the same night (also employing different directors; Scheerer/Landau).
@80/Eduardo: “Chain of Command” was not aired on a single night; Part 1 aired the week of December 14, 1992, and Part 2 the week of December 21, 1992.
It would be incorrect to count two episodes that aired on a single night as a single episode. If they have separate production numbers and were scripted and shot as separate episodes, they are separate episodes. I presume Keith’s count is based on production numbers.
@81/Christopher: Just checked Memory Alpha’s dates, and you’re right. Which means the edition of the TNG Companion that I still own has a 25 year old typo. That book lists part 2 as airing on December 14th.
@82/Eduardo: That error aside, it should be kept in mind that TNG and DS9 were syndicated shows whose time slots varied from market to market. That’s why I said they aired “the week of” rather than “on.” (Here in Cincinnati, for instance, TNG aired on Thursday nights, so “Chain of Command” premiered December 17 and 24.) That’s why two hourlong episodes never aired on the same night until Voyager — because that was only possible when the series was on a network rather than syndicated, so that it was possible to control exactly when they aired.
@83/Christopher: Syndicated programming was never a thing around here (the few networks we have yield too much power and influence, to a monopolistic level). It’s both a fascinating and interesting concept; a system so decentralized that it’s flexible enough from region to region for people to catch the same show on different times.
On the other hand, I can imagine this system facing issues in this current age of online watercooler TV discussion. Imagine trying to control vital plot spoilers in this kind of situation, where a friend already got to watch the newest episode three days ahead of you.
@84/Eduardo: Where are you from again?
“On the other hand, I can imagine this system facing issues in this current age of online watercooler TV discussion. Imagine trying to control vital plot spoilers in this kind of situation, where a friend already got to watch the newest episode three days ahead of you.”
I don’t have to imagine that, because I don’t have cable anymore, so my viewing of network or cable TV is always delayed depending on its online availability. I have to wait until the next day to see CW programming. For ABC shows, I have to wait 8 days to see them, if they work at all. I tried watching the final season of Agents of SHIELD that way, but ABC’s player was screwed up and I gave up on it, so I still haven’t seen most of it (though I’m currently late in season 2 on a Netflix rewatch binge of the entire series). I still haven’t seen any of Jodie Whittaker’s second season of Doctor Who beyond the premiere, which was offered free online. And I have yet to see anything on Disney+ or HBO Max. At least with syndicated broadcast TV, you were no more than 6 days behind anyone else.
@85/Christopher: Brazil. Rio de Janeiro.
Your point about relying on a show’s online availability is well taken. Around here, international releases depend on distribution agreements, which I believe happen on a show-by-show basis. Case in point, Lower Decks hasn’t been given a proper release around here, even though we have access to both Picard and Discovery. Even streaming venues are tied by these same exhibition hangups.
Discovery’s distribution around here happens through our own Latin America Netflix branch. But the newest episode isn’t readily available. It takes two or three days for it to arrive, following the original CBS All Access airing date, which means I usually avoid Krad’s Discovery reviews until I’m able to catch up.
Speaking of it, Disney+ just hit our shores this past month (over a year’s wait), which is how I’m finally getting to watch Agents of SHIELD for the first time in its entirety. I’m currently at the beginning of season 2, right when Lucy Lawless is turned to stone. But the final season isn’t yet available around here (I’m guessing the current agreement requires them to hold off on putting it on until whatever cable channel around here finishes its contract with ABC/Disney).
The lack of international distribution for Lower Decks is, I believe, due to its being jumped ahead in the schedule, as it wasn’t supposed to be released here in the States until after Discovery season three, but then the recent apocalypse threw everything into disarray…..
—Keith R.A. DeCandido
There’s already Lower Decks in some parts of the world outside of the US and Canada, but still not in Latin America.
I’m honestly surprised to see so much love for Janet Kidder’s performance as Osyraa. Neither this episode nor the previous one evinced any improvement from her work in “The Sanctuary;” I found her just as two-dimensional and one-note in these latter episodes as she was earlier in the season. The character of Osyraa is built up as a major player, a force to be reckoned with, and demands the kind of presence that Michelle Yeoh always brought so effortlessly to Georgiou (either of her). I saw none of that in Ms. Kidder’s performance. She also seemed to have a very inconsistent accent–some of her pronunciations were faux-British and some were more North American sounding. (I don’t know much about Canadian regional accents, so if this is what she normally sounds like, apologies; but I found it very distracting). As has been mentioned by others, the makeup department did her no favors by covering most of her face in latex and making it almost impossible for her show any facial expression (not everybody is an Armin Shimerman or a Rene Auberjonois). All in all, I found her performance tremendously disappointing–one of my least favorite things about the whole season, in fact–and it pretty much ruined for me any impact that Osyraa might have had.
Back to Lower Decks’ international distribution, the Paramount+ streaming platform is coming to Latin America in March, so they’ll probably have it there. Picard is on Amazon, and Discovery is on Netflix, so they’ll likely stay there for a bit.