Welcome to the spoiler thread for the Memories of Light, the daily preview of the final volume of Robert Jordan’s epic Wheel of Time series, A Memory of Light. Some memories may shed new light on long-held theories and all are sure to have many different interpretations. Join the discussion of their meaning on the Memories of Light spoiler thread below!
Peruse more theories on the other spoiler threads for the Memories of Light.
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“Didn’t you once lead a band of thieves out of this forest?”
Birgitte grimaced. “I was hoping you hadn’t heard that one.”
Robin of Robin Hood is in fact a girl’s name.
Sounds like Brigitte was once Robin Hood, not maid Marian!
Just like the Uno blaspheming a few days ago, I think Sanderson and Team Jordan are just trying to make us LOL to the end of days.
Oh, wait, those passed us by, right?
;-)
I’m thinking Matt speaking to her.
#29
Mat using Birgitte’s memory to get them out of a sticky situation. And maybe during this ordeal, Mat is able to reunite Birgitte with her ugly lover…. Uno?!
I suppose it could be that Robin and Marian led the band of thieves – making it Gaidal and Birgitte. Kevin Costner’s acting chops certainly make Robin look ugly enough.
My guess is Elayne or Nynaeve saying this, not Mat. I think they talked about this during their ride to Salidar.
I think the most recent is mat speaking to birgitte. Maybe they are teaming up during a battle?
I hope everyone has a Merry Christmas and safe and happy New Year.
can some one tell me what people discuss in these posts? the preview memory of light stuff? or just stuff from older books?
@8 adeepu9 – each day TOR releases a different quote from AMOL, they have released 29 so far. These threads discuss those quotes and guess their context. The threads are organized by weeks (7 quotes per week)
When Birgitte first meets Valan Luca, after displaying her archery skill to him:
Definitely not Robin. While the legend of Robin underwent massive variability across the first century of its existence, the most clearly known fact from the early references was his dedication to protecting women, and his loathing for the mistreatments suffered under the legal-clerical systems present in that time. What is presented as a strong Marianism at first, later becomes personified as the distressed courtier and romantic interest, Maid Marian. In some of the most enduring later compositions, Marian is responsible for rallying and leading the men out of Sherwood to first evade the posse of Nottingham, then to rescue the captured Robin. All of this to say that Robin was never a woman’s name in the legend.
“Didn’t you once lead a band of thieves out of this forest?”Birgitte grimaced. “I was hoping you hadn’t heard that one.”
I thought Mat at first and after being reminded of the episode with Valan Luca, I’m more conviced it’s Mat, Elaine and Nyneave were there when Birgitte told the story.
Doesn’t matter who she’s talking to. It’s awesome! I hope we get lots of Birgette in MoL. She is one of the best supporting characters. There could be a book, or even an entire series featuring her (do it TOR!!!)
Some Birgette questions:
-How will the blowing of the Horn affect her now that she is in the physical world?
-Where is Gaidal? I still think it’s Olver, but wouldn’t be surprised if BS or RJ have debunked this.
-What happened to the original silver arrow that came with her when she was ripped from tel’aran’rhiod? Is it important or a throw-away detail?
-Will we see the new ter’angreal she carries in action? I believe it was a silver disk with a rose engraved on it.
-And will Elayne have the kids so Birgette can drink some ugly ale again!
Merry Christmas to all and to all a Good night!!
The Light be with you!
May you always find water and shade!
Come on January 8, 2013…May you always have memories of light!
WE are the light!
Oh yes we are!
Skyfoo @12
~ Yes, very debunked. Olver is not Gaidal Cain. In answer to the direct question almost ten years ago:
~ The silver arrow which followed Birgitte out of tel’aran’rhiod? Well, there’s this from the Lord of Chaos Prologue:
Birgitte’s arrow is the only “special source” of silver to be imagined. That a’dam was the first ter’angreal made by Elayne, without the leash, in order to keep Moghedien secret while they held her captive.
~ There is no ter’angreal such as you describe, a silver disc with rose engraved, in the text or other listings that I can find. Not sure to what you are referring.
~ Elayne’s babies will be healthy. So sayeth Min. When, and whether Birgitte will have another chance to get drunk, are uncertain.
Merry Christmas everyone!
@@@@@ 12. Skyfoo
I remember reading somewhere that Birgitte’s arrow was melted down to create the silver disk. I’ve been unable to find any reference to it again though, so it may be that I’m remembering someone’s theory rather than ‘fact’.
edit:
Not only did I get ninjaed, but it looks like I got my facts the wrong way round too!
The silver disc is one of the copies of Mat’s medalion, isn’t it?
edit 2: found it – ToM ch52, it’s a foxhead copy.
merry christmas everybody!
Thom is talking to Birgitte..just a wild guess because i answered ‘Mat’ so many times already…and Thom knows many old stories too.
the silver medallions with the engraved rose are imperfect copies of mat’s silver fox head that elayne considered giving or did give to her personal guard, if memory serves me right.
Merry Christmas to all!
I love the “Maerion” references to leading men out of the forest. And thanks Free, for that historical lesson…I had no idea about maerionism!
Could be Mat to Birgitte, or Thom, or Nynaeve or Elayne….probably having something to do with a battle though, so perhaps Mat or Thom is more logical.
Day 30:
Rand strode forward, lifting his arms out to the sides. Grass sprouted in waves, red blossoms burst from the ground like a blush upon the land. The storm stilled, the dark clouds burned away by light.
A joyful song, a song of awe and wonder, though she could not understand the words.
Day 30
Wow don’t know what just happened…but I love it.
Rand strode forward, lifting his arms out to the sides. Grass sprouted in waves, red blossoms burst from the ground like a blush upon the land. The storm stilled, the dark clouds burned away by light.
A joyful song, a song of awe and wonder, though she could not understand the words.
Wow! Rand tavarening Shyol Ghol, perhaps, really taking the battle to the Dark One, and singing a song of Growing at the same time? Maybe from Nyneave’s POV? Morianne would be able to understand the words, since she knows the Old Tongue.Merry Christmas!
I’m actually kind of disappointed this one was released before the book. Everyone has been speculating about Rand knowing The Song or somehow using The Song to help him in the Last Battle, but now that it seems to have been confirmed, I think I would have preferred to read it in the text of the book itself. This just seems anticlimactic…hmmmph.
I always new that the Song of Growing would be very important here at the end of the series.
The Memory of Light for today is awesome.
@RobSS
wow indeed.
a thunderstorm started in the middle of the night at the field of merrilor.
next morning,rand is walking to the highest place,preparing to address
the assembled rulers and armies of light.
…rand strode forward,lifting his arms….
i believe it’s from aviendha’s pov.
apples first deja vu,merry christmass to all.
Rand knows the Song! As we hoped, and can make it work!
Is this before or after the LB? Who’s pov? Nynaeve? Where?
It is a very beautiful passage, full of hope. Perfect for Christmas. And a Merry one to you all.
This is wonderful!! Dr Who where are you??? I want to travel to Jan 8, 2013!!!
#30
Well, that’s a hopeful couple of quotes for Christmas.
Maybe all that talk of unity in AMOL ch1 pays off after all?
I do like the idea of Rand singing his way through the Blight.
Presumably he has ‘the Voice’
Total awesomeness on Christmas Day for WoT fans. A glimpse of what will be the culmination of many years of anticipation. I found the Apples First chapter a very revealing look (and the first!) into what Rand has become. His mere presence was powerful enough to reverse the lost apple harvest. (And on the family farm of the man who, so long ago, had given him and a sickly Mat a ride into Caemlyn. So poetic!) To regenerate an entire orchard without even trying…by just passing through…imagine what our hero will be capable of when he puts his mind to it! “Rand lifted his arms out to the side…” Amazing! Can hardly wait for the full context.
I think the day 30 memories are seperate and are not related in anyway. I quote from the email, “To commemorate this Christmas morning release of the daily Memories of Light we’re offering two hopeful glimpses from the final volume of Robert Jordan’s epic tale.”
The two was bolded in the email.
I also think Rand can heal the land without any song. (example: the apples in ToM) And in the quote, it does not say anything about Rand singing, just him raising his arms. Thats not to say he cant be singing, but I doubt it. For some reason I think it is one of the seanchen talking about the song. Prehaps Levin shipless? And, we have to remember it may not be “the song” it could just be a song of hope sung by people before the last battle. Or after Rand is reserected. It could just be a red herring.
Agree with Zach-. It’s two distint statements, not related. Rand’s Dragon nature heals the land instantly. In other news, there’s awesome song going on. (BTW, Zach-, it’s Leilwin)
I suspect he is offering a visual proof of his bona fides to all the gathered at Merrilor, prior to his declarations and demands. Or, this is afterwards, and he’s cleaning up.
And now, off to the train station to send Grandpa home for his Christmas dinner. No, I’m not Grandpa.
#30
Ran learned a new power that is similar to the green man.
Song? Tinkers finally play a role of healing the land after the last battle.
Perhaps I sounded too literal in my previous post.
I do agree that the two memories are separate.
I don’t think Rand will necessarily sing his way through the LB, but, I have been waiting for the Voice talent to make it’s appearance (from TEOTW Prologue). Whether it is a talent for singing, or something akin to ‘being as one with the land’, I don’t know. Perhaps he does try some theatrics before the meeting at FoM – it would be somewhat disappointing though – I’m hoping for something more subtle or important.
@@@@@ Free
Timezones are funny things. You talk of your Grandpa going for his Christmas dinner, but not only have I eaten my Christmas dinner already, I’ve eaten the next day’s leftovers dinner too. I’m sort of hanging around, waiting for everyone else to stop eating and celebrating.
Not my Grandpa. Contrary to popular belief, I’m not that old. My kids’ Grandpa.
Oh, I know timezones. Took three urgent work-related calls from Asia my yesterday afternoon, their Tuesday morning. Then another from Europe this morning my time, their late evening. No such thing as a holiday closing for some industries.
Vecther @31
Rand already has this ability. “The land is one with the Dragon, and the Dragon is one with the land. While Rand was at his darkest, the land near him suffered horribly. Following his Dragonmount epiphany, he is now shielded from that darkness, and his Dragon nature is positive on the land. Ask Almen Bunt about his apples.
@missbee
its not about theatrics,its about hope.
rand is not a magician doing some parlor tricks,he has the power to
reverse the dark one’s taint on the land.
by the way,if memory number 30 is about the field of merrilor,rand is
talking to more than 200000 people,so subtlety has no place there,
its total war now,and he can use everything in his arsenal to get team
light 100 percent behind him.
I hate to be a wet blanket, but . . .
I don’t think that this is actually happening. The language is similar to that used before when describing dreams. I wager that this is a prophetic dream that (probably) Egwene is having about upcoming events. While Rand certainly is capable of a dramatic gesture, I’m not sure that he has transcended the need for the One Power so completely that he can pull off what is alluded to here. Also, the POV seems very . . . pulled back? I’m not sure I can express what I’m thinking here, but I’ll try. She refers to “The land” sprouting blossoms, etc. If it were film, I’d say that it was describing a sweeping, panoramic fly-by shot.
My other reasoning is a bit more meta. I don’t think that TOR would release a ‘memory’ that is quite that . . . spoiler-ish. In the words of someone on the Spoiler-Free Review comments: I think we are being flim-flammed.
-Beren
Merry Christmas indeed!!! TOR delivers two nice presents with the two Day 30 quotes.
Time for everyone to review the “legend of the Fisher King” out of Aurthian Legend. He is one with the land.
Who is “she” – is it Aviendha? or Nynaeve
“She” is Egwene.
And she is dreaming.
I’m with Beren, it has the feel of the description of an Egwene dream. Both statements do, come to that.
S
@1 Buddhacat
Actually, it can be used for both males and females.
@19 ChaosBlue
Thanks for the beautiful quote, really clears up my day after I just had to respond to an ugly comment.
@32 missbee
I don’t think Rand being the Dragon can be called doing theatrics. That’d be a bit like calling Jesus’ healing theatrics.
‘She’ is Min, and this is a vision.
im wondering if this nice MoL is after the Last Battle or before? Which Nym is participating? aren’t they required for the Song? This one is the best so far..
@@@@@ 34. jack of shadows & @@@@@ 40 tenkuu
Just to clarify, I don’t think of Rand being the Dragon as theatrics. Just this quote
One reason I used the word ‘theatrics’ is because I’d just re-read the AMOL chapters where there are a few references to the theatrics others are expecting from Rand at FoM. I’m not sure whether Rand will address the multitudes and go for some grand gesture, maybe. Personally, I hope not. His plan to move an army to SG should be spectacular enough (assuming he hasn’t changed it of course)
Another reason is because this quote does feel like theatrics. Beren @@@@@35 has nailed it I think. The language, arm waving and striding just don’t sound right to me. I think both quotes are from dreams
@40
You’re welcome!
@38
That was pretty funny actually!
He doesn’t want to fight in Andor, Elayne thought. He doesn’t want to fight alongside me. He wishes the break to be clean.
Elayne thinking about … not Rand, not Gawyn, … so Galad?
Day #31
“He doesn’t want to fight in Andor, Elayne thought. He doesn’t want to fight alongside me. He wishes the break to be clean.”
In previous books Elayne and the other three seemed very determined not to let him decide for them what was “best”. I can’t image that changing, so I wonder what’s up. More of the RJ’s men/ women not understanding each other?
Unless Rand does not have the “bond” between the three women? Is that the break?
Could also be Gareth Bryne.
Am going with Gawyn…he chose Warder over First Prince of the Sword (and now is quite likely to do something stupid (i.e. for him, par for the course) with the three rings
for the elven kings).~lakesidey
I’m with most here at the moment… the latest thought from Elayne isn’t Rand, but either Galad or Gawyn.
If it were Rand, though… it would be heartbreaking despite any positive outcome.
isn’t ‘a clean break’ not something for lovers?
The fact that Elayne thought “He wishes the break to be clean,” tells me that she is thinking about Rand. My first instinct on this quote is that Elayne is referring to Rand. Gawyn or Galad could be the man in Elayne’s thoughts here. But I am going to go with my first guess and say “he” is Rand al’Thor.
I agree with @@@@@ 49. lakesidey
I’m thinking that Gawyn has ‘broken’ off from his traditional duties in Andor and wants to stay by Egwene’s side
@51 pyrefire:
… also for bones.
It has to be Galad. Neither Gawyn nor Gareth nor Rand get to decide where they are to fight. Egwene will decide for Gawyn and Gareth, the pattern decides for Rand.
He doesn’t want to fight in Andor, Elayne thought. He doesn’t want to fight alongside me. He wishes the break to be clean.
I don’t think it’s Rand. She’s carrying his babies, why would he want a “clean break”?
More likely, it is either Gawyn, who is now firmly Egwene’s warder and fighting for the White Tower, or Galad, differentiating himself from his AS sister, since he is head of the White Cloaks. Or it could be Gareth Byrne, separating himself from Andor, because Morgase is by Elaynes’ side, and he was dismissed rather abruptly from her service. Or????
Perrin is going to tell Galad where to fight. Did you guys forget that Galad swore that he would have Perrin as a battle leader until after the LB? I think its Rand, because of the 1st chapter.
It could be Mat, though we already attributed a lot of the quotes to him. But Mat has a contract with Andor, that allows him to decide if he wants his Band to fight or quit. And we know in Chapter 11 he is in Ebou Dar, not Andor, so maybe something happend in between (remenber the letter, written in Mat’s script (memory Nr. 9)), which decided him to “quit”.
Sounds like passages from Loial’s book.
–—
I think it is everybody’s favorite man of indecision, Gawyn.
I can imagine Rand wishing to drop the bond before heading off to his prophesied death, to spare his loves from the pain. But I don’t think he is able to dissolve it himself, and which of them (Min, Elayne, Aviendha) would agree to end it?
This fits with what occurred between Elayne and Gareth Bryne in Salidar, but doesn’t fit current circumstances very well. Bryne was still the general of Egwene’s forces, though she could easily have dismissed all of them after the Tower reunification, keeping only those who would remain as Tower Guards. Bryne, however, is now Siuan’s Warder, and his duties are first to her.
Gawyn is Egwene’s Warder, and though he hasn’t (at last view) renounced his place as First Prince of the Sword in Andor, that could well happen before the point of this memory. Hard to imagine Gawyn creating any significant “break” between himself and his sister, given what he’s gone through. He didn’t break from the Tower after the coup because he expected that to be the place of Elayne’s return. He didn’t break from Elaida because of her history with his family. He let Siuan and Leanne go because he though it held the chance of learning Elayne’s whereabouts. She has been the background motivation for many of his decisions, however poorly executed.
Galad? She still doesn’t view him as a brother, wouldn’t see any development which cemented that thought as a “break”. Since Samara, after first learning that he’d joined the Children, Elayne would not have considered for a moment that Galad would ever fight alongside her in Andor.
Mat? She knows that he belongs with Rand. She is grateful enough that Shen an Calhar helped save part of Caemlyn, and Aludra’s dragons, from the trolloc invasion. She wouldn’t be expecting him to fight alongside her either.
So, I don’t know. Bryne is the most likely person I can think of, but several things would have to happen to overcome what we know right now.
Hmm, am I the only one thinking about the “in Andor” instead of “with Andor, beside Andor etc.”? Sounds like the armies are heading towards the LB, which previously in my thoughts meant heading towards SG… However the quote goes:
He doesn’t want to fight in Andor, Elayne thought. He doesn’t want to fight alongside me. He wishes the break to be clean.
To me, this sounds like they are preparing to fight the last battle after the meeting, and Elayne is going to fight it in Andor (as it sounds like the person she’s thinking about will join another force at the same time)… While there certainly is a large force currently occupying it, it doesn’t yet have the feeling of last battle to me. But if so, should we prepare to see “last battles” in every nation, or is it just Andor and Elayne who will not join the march towards SG?
If Elayne is fighting her “part of the last battle” in Andor, the only person who makes sence is Gawyn, as he is the only one not leading other forces and occupied elsewhere fighting the LB.
Maybe this is already discussed, but I always imagined the united forces of Randland marching together towards their doom (or heroic success), not splitting up and fighting across the whole continent, but this makes we wonder…
Sorry for the rambling =)
“In Andor” is fairly suggestive here; like others, I had this unexamined assumption that The Last Battle would involve all the armies marching north to retake the Blight or something, but it’s become increasingly obvious that it won’t. In the last book, we saw Trollocs popping out in Ghealdan and Andor via Portal Stone and Waygate; that should tell us that the Battle may actually take place all over Randland, at least. Andor may very well be as much a battleground as the Borderlands.
As for this memory… my first thought was Rand, but I don’t think it really makes sense. I think Gareth Bryne is more likely; when he and Elayne met in Salidar and Elayne, rather cooly, suggested that his return to Caemlyn could be arranged, his response was, “Done is done, Elayne.” With that, he turned away, took care of other business, and left. As far as I know, that’s the last time they’ve spoken. It sounds reasonable that she has now asked him to return to Andor with her: a) Gawyn won’t be taking up his responsibilities as First Prince of the Sword, b) she needs a general (Birgitte doesn’t want the job) and c) she knows the truth of why Morgase dismissed him in the first place. The coolness is no longer appropriate, and it makes sense that she would ask him to return to his old job – and that she would be sad that he decided to stick with the “done is done” clean-break attitude.
It’s also possible that instead of asking him to return to his old job, the suggestion was made – and refused – that he lead the AS armies in the fight on Andoran soil. In either case, I think Bryne makes the most sense.
He doesn’t want to fight in Andor, Elayne thought. He doesn’t want to fight alongside me. He wishes the break to be clean.
I think it’s an Elayne P.O.V. that’s either before, or simultaneous with Rand’s Jesusification. And this is obviously her thinking about an overprotective Rand trying to disassociate himself from her and the forthcoming twins, in an attempt to keep them safe. He knows that anyone that he cares for is a target, and that team Dark is going to try to use them against him. Since he doesn’t want them to be hurt, he is removing his links to her and the babies from public view….He’s probably not aware of the trollocs and the undefended waygate in the middle of Caemlyn.
Personally I’m fairly sure he’s going to find that he’s got another thing coming, as soon as she finishes that train of thought! She’s not well known for keeping her temper, and I think she’s going to be really irate with him, for not, at the very least, keeping her in the loop!
#30… Jumping on here a day late
I don’t think that the Song could be sung without the Green Men can it? It’s been a while since I read the chapter, but I remember it being that it required both Aiel and Green Men for the song to work
My initial thought on last Mermory was Mat. We know from another memory that him and Elayne will meet once more. If there was a re-negotiation of their deal or “breaking” of the aggrement, Mat will definetely won’t want to go back there and will pull a rabbit out of his hat to go to opposite direction, even when it is against trollocs.
@62 Is Elayne’s POV that far behind? Rand’s been Jesus for a whole entire book already.
Smokey @63:
But weren’t the Nym living ter’angreal? Which would mean that channelers could substitute for them if they knew the weaves. I imagine that Rand knows the weaves required and is going to teach them.
A joyful song, a song of awe and wonder, though she could not understand the words.
In book #1 chapter #9 Rand had a dream with almost the exact wording. Could this be a simular dream?
He doesn’t want to fight in Andor, Elayne thought. He doesn’t want to fight alongside me. He wishes the break to be clean.
I think that this has to be about Rand. If it is, then does wishing for the break to be clean, also mean that he rejects the accomodation that Perrin and Elayne reached over the Two Rivers / Manetheren?
meowwl @62 – Elayne has experienced the effects of Rand’s Dragonmount epiphany for some time already. I can’t see Brandon taking a month+ leap back in time for this to be a pre-Dragonmount POV.
If it’s Rand, it has to be him trying to protect her by making “a clean break” – but I don’t believe it’s Rand. (His POV in Chapter 1 doesn’t give any hint of it when he thinks about Elayne & her babies, anyway, though he could possibly change his mind later.) His job is to go to Shayol Ghul, not leap around Randland fighting various individual battles. If he does any more of that, it will probably be at Tarwin’s Gap just prior to his trip to SG, but I honestly don’t believe he’ll do that either. IMO, that will be a matter of sending serious Asha’man & Aes Sedai back-up for Lan, while Rand goes a bit farther north and west.
Day 32:
Rand stiffened. He’d known what he was doing, on some level, but to hear it explained was disconcerting.
Aaaand my mind immediately dove straight into the gutter.
Day 32: After (?) has explained to him what breaking the seals will actually do. He thinks he’s right about everything. But to hear it explained to him in rational terms makes him uncomfortable.
Rand & Avi – This goes with the “Enough talk. You will bed me now.” From Dec 7th.
@70 I agree it’s not Rand. Once he decided to let Elayne and company bond him there is no going back. He would not break his word.
She has already had a clean break with Garth so it appears to be one of her brothers. Other than Tom and maybe Guybon there aren’t any other men in her life. Plus, she knows Mat’s priorities.
Day 32 Wow..perhaps Min has finally found the passage that got Herin killed. Or he’s having a conversation with one of the Forsaken.
Rand stiffened. He’d known what he was doing, on some level, but to hear it explained was disconcerting.
OK, I’m clueless.
Balefire explained?
Breaking and opening the Bore and the consequences thereof?
#32 – My guess is that Moiraine has just explained something to Rand, probably about breaking the seals though it could be several other things as well. At least, I’m hoping she will have some new understanding to bring to the table when she rejoins Rand & co.
@72. Beren: ObMeToo: Me too. I thought of Rand’s dreaming of Cyndane’s torture and his reaction to it.
Day 32: True power usage maybe?
rand is having a conversation with lanfear,after all she originally drilled
the bore,and she knows exactly what rand is going to unleash after
breaking the remaining seals.
so yes,she is going to help him!
i have a soft spot for rand ex girl friend,that tall raven haired beauty
almost always gave heart attacks when she appeared,but i love her
ha ha ha…
The “Rand strode forward” passage: I tried to write about this when it came out, but had a problem with my Internet connection that day. I love the passage. It was just one of those hopeful, uplifting things we hope will come about. Of course, we don’t really know the context yet. Was it a dream? Was it real? Can’t wait to find out.
As for today’s “explanation” quote where Rand is disconcerted, I agree this could be about either the True Source or the breaking of the Seals. If he’s disconcerted, I’m going to say the breaking of the Seals. On the other hand… if it’s the True Source, perhaps he’s disconcerted by who is doing the explaining. Or, for that matter, it could be because there’s something about using the True Source (where it comes from?) that isn’t what he thought, despite “know(ing) what he was doing.”
Rand stiffened.
*Giggle*
I think it pertains to Rand’s newfound political/utopian/academic speech patterns OR his miracle grow/weather whisperer passive powers. Of the two I favor the latter.
I think the diconcerting memory is about his use of the True Power that he tapped into when he couldn’t use saidin.
@@@@@ 81
True Source = Saidin + Saidar (ie, the Light side powers). I think you mean to say the True Power, which is what Lanfear (then Mierin Sedai) drilled the Bore to tap and is now channelable by the Forsaken (+ Rand).
# 32
My thoughts when right to: overhearing Perrin explaining how breaking the seals was mandatory so they could be re-made whole.
Sry to be completely off, but could that refer to some strange Aiel custom, refering to the get-together of Rand and Avi?
I cannot imagine Rand stiffening in front of the world leaders, only in private he would be that ‘vulnerable’.
@87 Seriously???
Rand’s whole body becomes rigid in alarm. “Rand stiffened” isn’t just about his
didragon.I think that this might be Rand reacting to hearing about Pre Jesus Rand from someone else. He had an idea about how he was acting ,but hearing it from someone else, kind of hit home. Really hard to hear from someone else, when you are being a jerk of all jerks.
Rand stiffened. He’d known what he was doing, on some level, but to hear it explained was disconcerting.
I think it’s being pointed out to him how manipulative he was being with the armies and world leaders. It may have been necessary, but it was manipulation.
Either that, or he’s getting a rundown on how thoroughly he was strangling his own soul with the whole having to be hard as nails thing.
Not that I’m counting or anything but you know, eleven days. That’s almost an eternity. Ehhhh… This is the forts time that my Christmas goes by to slowly. Usually it’s over in a blink and there you’ve got to work again. This year not so much.
i dont think this is about the True Power…Rand knows already its from the DO..”It’s HIM” LTT said when rand channeled himself free from Semirhage..
i guess he is talking about breaking the seals. The idea mentioned before about Mierin that is explaining this to him is quit nice.
A clever scheme to let Rand doubt about is love for her and the other three and making him vulnerable somehow for the DO. Verin said the DO would battle in a way no one is expecting..
My thoughts on the #32 quote.
Rand is beginning to understand the true nature of how gateways work and their effect on the pattern etc. No idea on who is doing the explaining though. Maybe some random brown AS living in retirement for the past 13 books. I think this might tie into a previous quote regarding the necessary use of the ways.
@93 Yes, I agree completely. I’m sure that Travelling will be a no-no this last book
Day 33:
If the end of the Aiel was the sacrifice required for Rand to win, she would make it.
One of the Wise Ones? That’s what immediately springs to mind for me.
Day 33:
I agree with Aerich @95 above. In particular, I think it is Bair. Recall in the prologue, she volunteered herself to go to Rhuidan. I beleive she has this thought after she comes out of the glass forest.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewB
I will plump for Aviendha thinking it….realising that if it is a choice between End of the Aiel v/s End of the World (Aiel included) then, not really much of a choice…
Something like – she tries to convince him to change his demands on the field of M. And he explains to her that he is not going to change them. So there. (Min interjects a “stubborn woolhead” here and Nynaeve goes to tug the braid that is no longer there).
Hopefully after this she also convinces him that it is necessary by telling him what she saw in the WayBack columns – thereby disqualifying herself for WiseOneNess since the first rule of that is “what happens in Rhuidean stays in Rhuidean”. Then they live happily after (that is, all but Min, who subsequently takes a knife to a nuclear war? Or a knife to the heart, perhaps)
~lakesidey
I think this has to be Avi. Especially since just Rand’s first name is used. Any other Aiel would use his full name.
Plus, its not about winning the last battle – but about Rand winning (if that makes sense). Avi is all about some Rand while the other wise ones are about saving the remanent of a remanent and spitting in the dark one’s eyes.
@98:
That’s something I noticed about Aviendha (I think it’s mentioned outright in tFOH) – always saying the full name Rand Al’Thor in public. “Rand” is only used in intimate situations.
Sanderson and editors seem to have missed this in the prologue though. She says “Rand” when talking with the other Wise Ones in the sweat tent.
come hell or high water aviendha will follow rand to the gates of hell
and help him to break them.
although the choise is between the end of the aiel or the end of the
world(and like lakesidey said,no choise at all),aviendha is showing
unconditional trust,unconditional faith and of course unconditional
love.
tai’shar aviendha.
NO-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o!
OK, you can think it Avi, but let’s hope it never comes to that.
Re: Traveling becoming a no-no
I would have thought that if there were serious ramifications to Traveling, it would have been discovered in the AoL when the practice was used widely by most any and every Aes Sedai. Thus, my belief about the “forbidden weave” will be something new. Perhaps a weave seen in the glass columns by other Wise One’s who go through it, and the discovery/use of a particular channeling weave causes serious problems, leading to a general ban to prevent such before it happens. The “dangrous weave” memory says to tell the allies to never use the weave, not to never use it again, which would indicate banning a weave our channelers are already familiar with (like Traveling at this point…). Instead, it seems to imply either a newly discovered weave, whose dangers are readily apparent, or a foretelling/future-seeing (a la Rhuidean columns) that suggests that this weave will be extremely damaging if used.
Let’s face it: Traveling is the one reason this book series isn’t four times as long as it is already. Just think how long it would be if we had to have travel times included like we did pre-Traveling. I don’t think they will get rid of it before the series is done, if then. Traveling is also the sort of “strategic benefit” type of thing that will be hard to convince people to never use. “But just this once, it’s REALLY important that we get this army HERE by TOMORROW or our city/nation will be overrun….” For example, Tuon isn’t going to not-use Traveling to reclaim Seanchan from the Usurper (crossing the Aryth w/o Traveling is a bitch, yo!), and we’d be fools to think so. The Seanchan wouldn’t listen to the proclamations of a marath’damane anyway.
So, all told, I can see there being some other weave out there that’s very dangerous, but I don’t think it is Traveling.
The end of the Aiel doesn’t necessarily have to mean a complete end. It could be a transition, either back to what they originally were or to something new. I doubt very much it will mean that each and every Aiel, bar none, will either die or renounce any semblance (old or future) of being Aiel.
Also, thanks to the person who pointed out to me earlier that I meant the True Power, not the “True Source” in regards to the quote about Rand being disconcerted. (I only get on here about once a day, if that, so I’m sorry I’m not thanking you properly.)
The use of “Rand” as opposed to “Rand al’Thor” or, “the car’a’carn” points to Aviendha. No Aiel (other than a few of the Maidens) would think of him as just “Rand”. Since I doubt any Wise Ones would reveal the new vision from the glass columns (except, perhaps, to the clan chiefs), it’s almost certainly Aviendha.
First guess, Aviendha. Other possibilities, Bair or Amys. Much less likely but still possible, Egwene.
I believe Day 33 is a thought from Aviendha. However, I truly hope that the Aiel are not destroyed in order for Rand and the rest of the Lightsiders to defeat the Dark One.
I would opine that Avi was thinking these thoughts…. off of first glance. But given the determination that we have witnessed with her trips through the Ter’angreal, I have second thoughts. I don’t think that her willingness to support Rand and “His” mission, automaticaly assumes support for him- up to the inclusion of the decimation of her entire people.
I’d feel more comfortable with someone who has less invested in the Aiel surviving or not. Cadsuane is hard enough, Elayne has shown the depth of character to make the hard decision as well. But whom I really feel these thoughts are coming from is Egwene. She has shown a certain…. callousness? towards what needs to be done for the good of all. She is most certainly devoted to the victory of the light even if that means opposing the Dragon Reborn- the Savior himself.
Though I must say, if these are Avi’s thoughts it wouldn’t surprise me from a more storytellers standpoint. I mean look at how many main characters we’ve lost…. Hardly any at all, all things considered. So how do you tell a great story of endtimes without killing all the favorite characters too? Kill an entire people, thats how! A faceless people. All your favorite Aiel survive, just not the Aiel people. Granted it takes a long time to kill an entire people, as the Rhuidean Ter’angreal showed, so it would be deeply painful to watch. Except we don’t have to watch it. The story is over after this, soooooo….
Anyway, I feel it would be easy to assume that these are Avi’s thoughts, taking the line soley by itself… Too easy! But this could easily be somone else. So much so, that given her recent trips, thoughts and feelings on the subject of the death of her people, I feel it highly unlikely that she is gonna so easily do a one-eighty and gingerly give up her people for weltlanders or life in its entirety. She is hell bent on saving her people. That’s the impression I got from her.
Nope. Somebody has got to do some meaningful splain’n for me to get on board the “Avi lets her entire people be sacrificed to save the rest of Randlands wetlanders ship”.
Z
Has anyone considered Moraine? She was willing to make any sacrifice for Rand to succeed.
I considered Moiraine, momentarily, but discarded the idea. The quote:
Moiraine cannot make any such sacrifice, as she is not Aiel. This must be an Aiel woman, and one with some form of authority, as well as fondness for Rand. Bair was my first thought, since we haven’t yet seen her next trip into the cyrstal columns, and we’ve already seen Aviendha’s initial reaction to the horrific visions of the future. But it could still be Aviendha. She may have glossed over it at first, but for the future she witnessed, including the virtual destruction of her people, to be a reality, Rand must first win the Last Battle. That means the world is spared. A secondary reflection on her part may lead to precisely the thought presented in today’s memory.
@109 Freelancer
I agree with most of your thoughts in your post, but I don’t think:
“, she would make it.”
necessarily means that it’s someone who is Aiel making a decision for the Aiel people. It could be someone who is presumptive, which both Elayne and Egwene are at times. it could also be, as you suggest, another Aiel of some influence.
To me, the reasons for this assumption of influence, influence enough to have effect an outcome of such great importance, in effect rules out a whole host of players. The main instigator of any outcome is of course Rand. But whom besides Rand and female, could effect an outcome with reasonable expectation of success. To my mind you’d have:
Cadsuane- her manipulation skills alone make her good pick.
Amys- her coming trip to Rhuidean should have some expectation of influence or else why have her travel there in the first place?
Bair- her status and influence within the Aiel heirarchy could play a role.
Elayne- power is power. her sataus as a soverign leader gives her reasonable expectations that could lead to such an outcome.
Egwene- The balance to Rand in influencial power, she could logic everyone into thinking its a great idea to sacrifice the Aiel. Her status as Amyrlin Seat carries great weight, heavy enough to move those who would seem immovable.
Moraine- she has shown in the past that she would sacrifice quite a bit to get her way. And her mission in life since she was a novice? has been to guide the Dragon Reborn to victory, whatever the cost.
One could inject others into the mix, but realistically they’d have very little chance of effecting that nature of outcome. With the exception of Fortuona. But these words don’t sound like her at all.
Z
It occurs to me that “she” need not be the POV person. Someone in the scene obviously considers the end of the Aiel people to be a sacrifice – hence most likely an Aiel, or possibly someone to whom they mean a great deal.
It could be, for example, Siuan thinking that Egwene would be willing to sacrifice the entire Aiel people – knowing that Egwene would consider it a sacrifice, but also knowing that she would be willing to issue an order or make a decision that she knew would result in destroying the Aiel as a people if it meant Rand would win. The same rationale could apply to Min thinking of Aviendha, as another example. It could be Rhuarc thinking of Amys, though he’d be more likely to think “Rand al’Thor.” It could, at a slight stretch, be Cadsuane thinking about Sorilea.
If, on the other hand, “she” is the POV character, it would have to be someone who would consider it a sacrifice, but also someone with the authority to make decisions and/or give orders at a level which could result in the destruction of the entire people. That means it almost has to be an Aiel Wise One or, possibly, the Amyrlin Seat. I don’t think there are really any other women in a position of this much leverage.
My most-likely guess is still that “she” is Aviendha; if it’s not her, it’s either Bair, Amys, Sorilea or Egwene. I don’t have a “best guess” as to whose POV it is.
I don’t think that it’s Egwene. The Aiel helped make her into the woman she is today and she has hopes of them helping her change the WT from a bunch of self-centered narrow minded bitches into the servants to the people that they should be.
How about Sorelea, the top wise one?
She is the top dog among them, and would feel it to be her responsibility to make sure that the light wins.
I don’t believe for a minute that she is a darkfriend.
It would feel to her that it should be her choice. Though it really should be shared and discussed.
I think this almost has to be Aviendha…She’s really the only one who might have the knowledge to make that kind of decision. It could also possibly be Elayne or Min…Though I can’t really see either of them being that cold blooded. There’s a very distant possibility for it being Egwene or Moiraine. The use of his first name instead of his full name or title, indicates a level of intimacy that anyone who did not know him well wouldn’t even think to use.
Well, we’ve heard the prophecies that “only a remnant of a remnant” of the Aiel will survive, and we weren’t sure how that would happen. There have been many “theories”, but it seems we will get an answer!
The list of possible names still needs to be limited to those who would think of him as “Rand”. Cadsuane and Sorilea both would be excluded. While Cadsuane may not call him “boy” any longer, she would very likely have a less familiar choice. Sorilea would almost always call him the Car’a’carn, or Rand al’Thor.
I can imagine Elayne thinking this about Aviendha. I can stretch credulity and almost believe that someone may think this of Egwene, though who would focus a thought about the Aiel’s future, with the perspective that Egwene would willingly influence their demise, AND use only Rand’s first name, I cannot imagine. I cannot believe it would be Siuan, she has had basically zero reason to think about the Aiel at all so far. Moiraine, with what she’s been through among the Aiel, if she learned of Aviendha’s second pass through the columns, may consider such a thing.
I still have Aviendha herself at the top of the list, Bair a distant second, others trailing in the dust.
Do you think that “she” is also the POV character? Not that it matters much, just curious.
“If the end of the Aiel was the sacrifice required for Rand to win, she would make it”
I think it is Aviendha talking about her people. But I dont think it is as bad as we think. Because how does one destroy a people? the obvious answer is everyone dies, but I doubt that every Aeil will die. So how? Well, we have the prophicy of Rand, “He shall slay his people with the sword of peace, and destroy them with the leaf.”
His people is the Aeil. The way of the leaf is what they followed before. It could also be called the way of peace.
My theory is that to someone like Aviendha, a madien of the spear for most of her life and just now a wise one, could veiw the end of the Aeil as reverting to this way of the leaf and giving up the spears. It is their culture to fight. They believe in the philosophy from birth to death. I think the majority if not all the Aiel will consider everyone becoming perminet gai’shain to be the death of the Aeil. I mean, just look at the reaction when they heard they once followed the way of the leaf before. And now they have to practice it.
But this brings up the question of how Rand is involved, and how adopting this idea wil save him. We’ll have to wait another 10 days.
@119. Zach- I think you have the best theory I’ve seen. That was pretty close to my thought of the meaning of the prophecy you mentioned “He shall slay his people with the sword of peace, and destroy them with the leaf.” when I first read it, I believe which was way back in The Shadow Rising. I think this is from one of the Karaethon Cycle translations Rand was reading at the time.
The Aiel will have to go back to The Way of the Leaf to avoid the dishonor and slow death Aviendha was shown in Rhuidean.
It sounds like an Aviendha pov to me. Only Avi, of all the Aiel, would refer to him as “Rand”. Even that is a stretch, since she often says the whole name, Rand Al’Thor. But it does seem to be an Aiel.
What did you do when the One Power failed, the thing you relied upon to raise you above common folk?
Interesting that this is not inside quotation marks nor italicized as thought. Also, the common folk point at the end … the POV would seem to be someone who sees the use of the One Power as something that makes themselves or, if they are unable to channel, someone else above — superior, usually in what we would consider a condescending way — common folk. A Forsaken? A Seanchan? And has the One Power completely failed or is the person referring to merely being shielded or stilled? I think it’ll be very interesting to see exactly where this sentence is in the story. Ten more days!
Day 34: What did you do when the One Power failed, the thing you relied upon to raise you above common folk?
Wow!! this has been hinted…has it really happened?
Yes Martin, 10 more days!
I think this is a comment directed to Rand, or Logain, Susan, or Lelaine. Rand because in the begining he did not always use the One Power, and even if that was intentional at the time, he or someone else could be asking what he did instead. The others because they were channelers and had to go a period of time unable to channel.
From a link on Brandon’s Facebook:
“Perhaps that is wise,” Mezar replied. “Yet you go out into it. Why not stay where it is warm? Nalaam, I should like to hear one of your stories. Perhaps you could tell me of the time your father and you visited Shara?”
“It’s not that good a story,” Nalaam said. “I don’t know if I remember it that well.”
Wasn’t that question about a story of Shara one of the quotes from earlier in the month?
Anyway, it would appear to be chapter 3, in which the schism in the black tower becomes ever clearer…
Day 34: This seems too big a spoiler to be an event that happens in AMoL. I wonder if it might be a query to a Hero of the Horn who was a channeller when the source disappeared some Ages back?
It *could* be Setalle Anan…
What did you do when the One Power failed, the thing you relied upon to raise you above common folk?
I don’t think this is addressed to Rand. He has a history of protecting the “common folk.” This could be addressed to anyone else who channels: Suian comes to mind first for me because her career as Amyrlin was one of running roughshod over anyone who disagreed with her. I won’t know for 10 days, can’t wait.
I hate these captcha things. I’m partially deaf and can’t hear the letter for the background noise and my eyesight is failing. It takes literally dozens of tries to get the words right.
Here’s an idea though. What if the One power doesn’t fail? What if instead, the Randlanders develop a technology and decide there is no channeling? It worked with female orgasms in the 19th century. Thank you Mr. Freud! I mean, think about it. In this world, the One Power drives the Wheel and keeps the universe running. If it fails, so does everything else. The DO would win by default.
Without quotation marks, it isn’t dialogue. Without being italicized, it isn’t an internal thought. The only alternative which springs to mind at the moment is words in a book. Perhaps something Min is reading.
Anybody else see this? =D
(Remove spaces)
http:// www. npr. org/2012/12/29/168075551/exclusive-first-read-a-memory-of-light-by-robert-jordan-and-brandon-sanderson
@130…just read it via Wheel of Time FB. The Wheel weaves!
Ummm, I haven’t gotten the spoiler emails since #31
@106 – a remnant of a remnant shall he save – the Aiel have known that ever since they started going through the columns. Sounds dreadful, until you compare it with the total genocide of the people, and the destruction of their dignity over three generations as they are wiped out. Kind of like, for example, the destruction of the military culture of Japan. There are no samurai any longer, but the way they were destroyed has actually preserved the veneration for their ideals and way of life. And as a result there are still samurai, just in a modern form, and in a way which is relevant to contemporary life. This wouldn’t be the worst outcome for the Aiel, in the same way that the preservation of Manetheren via the people of the Two Rivers wasn’t such a bad outcome for that culture. Okay, so it is a bit of a stretch…..
@125
This is Day 2 memory…from Chapter 3. Could there be a pattern?
I’m going to listen to Chapter 2 again to see if one of the memories came from it.
In 30 minutes only 9 days to go!
For christs sake get the book out! Im maxing out my card on E-Books!
Lol
Could it not be a thought regarding how a channelers status is higher then common people without them being abel to channel. The one power was not enough to raise their status, it failed.
12/30/12 “The Blight had consumed the Two Rivers.”
Uh oh.
12/30/12 “The Blight had consumed the Two Rivers.”
Oh no :o(
Day 35
The Blight had consumed the Two Rivers.
OHHHH NOOOO!
I wonder when.
Has to be a dream.
@140 (Gammabase): I sure hope you’re right. That would be just too awful, wouldn’t it? Well, we did read there were going to be heartbreaks in this last book — guess this could be one of them, but …. :..-(
There’s an awful lot of territory between The (current) Blight and the Two Rivers — and so little time. I think it’s a dream or reflection upon what might happen if …
The Blight had consumed the Two Rivers.
Don’t know how much more of this I can take!!! ;o(
Oh Duck!!! Oh Duck!!! Oh Duck!!!!
@142 I agree, but what if spots of Blight start popping up anywhere? Look at the area of Blight they found in TOM, that they burned up. It is possible that it could happen anywhere.
I predict this is a dream….or a what might happen, if blah blah blah doesn’t happen. The Blight is too far from the Two Rivers. If it’s been consumed, then so has half of Randland.
The Blight HAD consumed the Two Rivers. … emphasis on HAD, not has or is consuming. It’s past tense, meaning this is a reflective comment – like someone is telling a story about the last battle and they’re setting the scene. ie: “It seems as if the forces of darkness were about to win. The Blight had consumed the Two Rivers, and Rand was torn between taking the battle to the dark one or retuning to his home…”
(correction: *seemed*)
It’s also possible the geography of Randland will change (i.e. akin to the Breaking)…
It’s the Breaking of the Shire
I think it really happens. When was the last scene we had in the Two Rivers? Also, if the DR is one with the land, and Rand has been around everywhere except the TR in the last years, it makes sense that a new blossom of blight starts in the TR. Confer the small patch of Blight Perrin found (IIRC a little south of the TR) and the first scene in the AMoL prologue, where metal became squishy, or the from the first chapter:
I don’t think all of the flora and fauna of the Blight has come to the TR yet, though.
I thought we signed up for Memories of Light, not memories of Blight. I really really hope this is a dream (and by that I don’t mean a Dream with a capital D, do you hear me Egwene?). Is there anyone left in the Two Rivers at all? I guess the old and infirm, at least…but no fighting people :(
Or maybe it is just Bode Cauthon’s Accepted test (or Egwene’s AS test, if she decides she has to undergo it after all). Single digit days to go….
~lakesidey
I HOPE this is a dream/vision/etc, but I agree the Blight could pop up in patches. What I think is most interesting though is I was doing my re-read and Rands “portal stone” experience where he saw all of the possibilities of his life “flicker” included him fighting off a horde of Trollocs as the Blight began to take over the Two Rivers. I know its a stretch, but perhaps he’s remembering that possbility if he fails to stop the Shadow?
@146/147 TopherBobyou can edit your post…see the last item under the date/time stamp.My bad. TopherBob
Now I wish that my EoTW copy wasn’t loaned to a friend hours away!
Well, I’m hoping if the Two Rivers does become swallowed by Blight (like mentioned above that patch of land in ToM), that it is reclaimed. Most likely it will, as Aviendha’s vision of the Aiel’s future mentions that the Two Rivers exists a few generations down the line.
If Aviendha tells Rand about her vision of the Aiel’s future; He may try going through again to test the validity of his plan. This could be part of his vision there.
@155 petelaw
I like that idea, but is there time? Chaos is erupting along the blightborder, the world is in turmoil, all the nations are gathered to discuss at the Fields of Merrilor, Avi must get preggers x4, reunions with Moiraine and Thom, The venture to Shayol Ghul, etc.
I would love that to happen, I just don’t know if it can fit into the timetable.
I really don’t mind if the put a few hundred extra pages in my book, to make it happen. hahaha.
But I do see your point. :-)
moondivatx @153 – You can only edit your posts if you are registered and logged in. TopherBob is not (his name is in red) so he can’t edit those posts.
NPR has published a bit of chapter 3 – spoiler alert:
http://www.npr.org/2012/12/29/168075551/exclusive-first-read-a-memory-of-light-by-robert-jordan-and-brandon-sanderson
Evelynne @149
Scouring?
I think it is real. If Rand doesn’t listen to Egwene enough to compromise, and wait for the right time to break the remaining Seals, there will be a period of unimpeded evil on the land, and where better to strike than the home of the leaders of both the Guardians and the Servants? I’m afraid that there hasn’t yet been enough lessons learned by Team Light to effectively cooperate, and it will take one more real disaster for them to wise up.
what no tidbit so far?
It’s Monday. Week Five has ended, the next entry should appear in Week Six.
No memory today?
If Bryne learns of Morgase’s marriage, that might be why he doesn’t want to fight in Andor. The break doesn’t have to be with Elayne.
The Power failing could be about the inability to channel at Shayol Ghul. An AS could be wondering how Rand is going to fight if he can’t use the OP.
The POV must be an AS who feels superior to ordinary people because she can channel. It could also be a BA who is summoned to Shayol Ghul.
The quote about what you do when the one power fails you could be Mats internal dialogue. Often times in the books, people have internal thoughts or observations without them being italisized.
The whole thing could be him sarcastically referring to his medallion, and it’s effects, more particularly because he’s had it be useful when he sets some Aes Sedai straight